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megashadowdragon · 5 years

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jaune will have a confrontation with yang when he finds out the truth

that yang was keeping raven branwen being the spring maiden a secret while before she told ozpin no secrets or half truths ( while then keeping a secret herself and that ozpin kept secrets to protect them and the world in contrast to yangs secrets

itsclydebitches . tumblr . com/post/181776207310/a-response-to-the-claim-that-yangs-secret

the-kiwi-is-not-a-pewee . tumblr . com/post/180434178440/yangs-secret-and-its-potential-risks

(edit: and this might be driven in part due to the deaths of people jaune cares about like nora or ren dies (and/or his family members if the jaune is from atlas theory is true) protecting the relic of knowledge so it will be put in the vault for the relic of creation that would give jaune even more incentive to be pissed at yang for yang didnt even try to get raven to relock the vault and the entire reason they went to atlas was to find a safe place for the relic because they didnt have the spring maiden

(

imagine how nora would react if ren died protecting the relic and then found out yangs secret ( noras based on thor who fought against the giant sea serpent Jörmungandr (the midgard serpent ) and yangs named after a chinese dragon ( which are associated with the sea/water

they have snake like bodies and in some stories like light novels eastern style dragons are mistaken for snakes/sea serpents (heck there was a story wherein eastern there is a myth about how dragons first start of as snake like creature but then they will grow and shed the skin of a snake and become a dragon In the sixteenth century of our era a Japanese author1 spoke of an old (certainly Chinese) tradition, according to which a dragon’s fetus lives during a thousand years in the sea, for a thousand years in the mountains and, after having been among men (“in a village”, says the text) for the same long period, it finally is born, becomes a dragon and ascends to the sky2. During these three thousand years the fetus lives as a very small snake within astone, the dragon’s egg, which is first lying at the bottom of the sea, then comes to the mountains (how it got there is not explained), where after a thousand years it is picked up by somebody who carries it home and preserves it on account of its beautiful colours, or uses it as an ink-stone (suzuri, 硯 ). As it invariably has the remarkable peculiarity of constantly producing water (the dragon’s element), it is a very convenient ink-stone indeed3. But woe him who possess such a stone at the end of the millennial period which the fetus must pass among mankind, for then the stone splits, and a small snake creeps out of it, which in a few moments becomes larger and larger, and with a terrible noise forces its way to the sky, smashing the roof amid thunder and lightning, and ascending in a dark cloud. The little reptile has become an enormous four-legged dragon, which leaves the narrow abodes of men and frees himself in this terrific way.” japanesemythology . wordpress . com/stories-of-dragon-eggs-a-ka-dragon-inkstones-in-japan/

. Jaune’s episode in V5 chapter 11 shows that he’ll take the deaths personally.

)

as many people know I believe that jaune’s evil counterpart is salem given the many parallels and that I believe that jaune will come around to understanding ozpin and realizing the truth of the mission and that oz was right ( with oz joining team jnpr as jaunes partner the new p)

megashadowdragon . tumblr . com/post/157918109672/oscar-pine-will-join-team-jnpr-and-be-the-new-p/embed

and that jaune will realize its not ozpins fault pyrrha died remember that oz told them to leave but pyrrha chose to fight cinder despite not needing to and jaune and ozpin will become partners ( jaune realizing that oz had nothing but bad options and had no choice but to seek a replacement for the fall maiden to get the powers to keep the fall maiden powers from going into salems hands) and pyrrha was just the best option. and that ozpin gave pyrrha a choice and gave her time to think it over ( for jaune would realize that pyrrha would normally say yes immediately ) and explained all the gritty details. ozpin did his best to make pyrrha feel safe ( and that ozpin doesnt know pyrrha as well as he does so acting like it was all his fault pyrrha died just because oz’s group went to pyrrha to become the fall maiden is ridiculous just like its ridiculous to to blame the guy who gave a mission out to a team for a death on that team) oz never manipulated pyrrha megashadowdragon . tumblr . com/post/152357996242/salem-is-jaunes-evil-counterpart/embed

alexkablob . tumblr . com/post/179967541409/i-just-cannot-believe-for-years-now-ive-been

I just cannot believe

for years now I’ve been saying Arkos was classic heroic romance tropes with Pyrrha in the classical male role and Jaune in the classical female role

and this is actually true in-universe, because Pyrrha parallels Oz and Jaune parallels Salem.

Arkos is paralleling Ozpin and Salem but better and not screwing up the way they did, with Pyrrha as Ozpin and Jaune as Salem

(the multiple scenes where ozma disintegrating in the exact same fashion that pyrrha nikos had disintegrated in at the end of v3

There’s also the part where Jaune was unable to save Pyrrha and had to struggle with a death wish (seriously jaune was borderline suicidal and some may say that was until his fight with cinder but I think its still there )

alexkablob . tumblr . com/post/179997954479/ozmas-pyrrha-parallels-are-making-jaunes-current?is_liked_post=1

Ozma’s Pyrrha parallels are making Jaune’s current suicidal tendencies even more painful tbh

WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT OZ AND SALEM WERE ACTUALLY GENDER-FLIPPED ARKOS “

I mean seriously Ozma is destroyed by the God of Light and darkness in the same manner that Cinder destroyed Pyrrhas body

and I forgot to add about how salem was suicidal

another post on ozpin and pyrrhas parallels

fandomsallaroundme . tumblr . com/post/180795589689/today-on-persephone-over-analyzes-everything-on

aspiringwarriorlibrarian . tumblr . com/post/179972347584/edelblume-righteousness-n-the-quality-of#notes

Righteousness n. the quality of being morally right or justifiable.

fandomsallaroundme . tumblr . com/post/180623532289/so-a-thought-occurred-to-me-ozma-x-salem-parallels#notes

sunder-the-gold . tumblr . com/post/180072404979/alexkablob-so-ozpin-interrupting-the-light

So.

Ozpin interrupting the Light God to say “I’ll do it” before he fully understood what was being asked of him.

And the Light god just taking it as assent without explaining further.

Wow I guess we know now why he looked so stricken when Pyrrha did the exact same thing before he’d finished explaining.”

note and as sunder-the-gold sid

sunder-the-gold

And then Ozpin said, “No, please, let me explain what this could do to you.”

and then he proceeded to give her time to think about it

.” basically he saw the parallels between himself and pyrrha how they said yes before they fully understood what was being asked of them and told her to think it over and explained what it could do to her and the way he described it sounded just the way he described what was happening to oscar and him .

dustypotion . tumblr . com/post/179999477247/i-got-an-interesting-ask-from-an-anon-and-wanted

“ wanted to delve deeper into the idea that jaune and pyrrha are also mirrors of ozpin and salem. but here, jaune is the reflection of salem, while pyrrha is the reflection of ozpin. pyrrha was the righteous, moral, talented soldier while jaune is the grieving person that was saved, and sought vengeance for their lost love. pyrrha also stuck to a moral code, like ozpin did, while jaune and salem both used alternative, immoral methods to reach their goals. there’s also the fact that salem’s emblem looked like jaune’s AND jaune’s semblance has the same visual look of the magic that made salem immortal “

and yang xiao long is chinese for little sun dragon and the god of lights can turn into an golden/yellow eastern dragon

not only did salem in her first meeting gets mad at the god and yell at him but later on managed to turn people against the gods and head to the god of lights domain

which makes me wonder if jaune and yang will have a confrontation and if something jaune does causes people to turn against yang like ren and nora for example ( plus the fact that jaune has a knight theme while yang is named after a dragon and how knights slay dragons / are enemies typically in fairy tales makes me wonder not to mention jaunes sword being named crocea mors which means yellow death not saying jaune will kill yang though I once made a theory for fun about yang turning evil and the thing that killed her being jaunes sword just jaune and yang will have a confrontation)

megashadowdragon . tumblr . com/post/186096788612/yang-will-lose-her-left-arm-ending-up-having/embed

Monty Oum was a huge BlazBlue fan and based Penny’s fighting style (and possibly her origin as a robot girl) on Nu and her Murakumo Unit “sisters who were made with souls like how penny is a robot girl with a soul) with those floating swords her weapon is divine radiance murakumo which starts off as a big sword it turns into 8 floating blades surrounding the user, and their armor. . and I think qrow with his giant sword that can turn into a scythe may have been inspired by ragna whose giant sword can turn into a scythe

and yang xiao long took inspiration from bullet (their weapons

who appeared before her Bullet was included in the JPN 1.0 arcade version, which came out in November 2012, while the Yellow trailer was June 2013.

So yeah, it’s impossible for Bullet to have been inspired by Yang, and there’s a greater-than-zero chance Yang was inspired by Bullet, especially considering that Namine from Dead Fantasy 6 (8?) copies moves from Nu 13 (the most obvious is Nu’s 5C).

both of them had someone disappear from their lives tager ( who lost his memories ) and raven ) and they chased after them going around trying to find info but while tager cared about bullet raven straight up abandoned yang.

the seemingly minute differences between Aura/dust and Magic is a leftover from how Ars Magus and Magic work in Blazblue.

, Qrow is basically just a color inverted, older version of Ragna the Bloodedge, down to their weapons.

the finale of Volume 6 has a LOT of similarities to the ending of Chronophantasma, what with the heroes fighting a giant artificial enemy bring about a change in the protagonist.

and yang losing arm to adam with his katana reminds me of ragna losing his arm due to terumi a psychopath with a katana and they both replaced their left arms with a artificial limb (azure grimoire in the form of an arm) and when terumi took ragnas arm he was possessing jin ( and both jin and ragna were kids when this happened ) jin would later on become an iaijutsu practicioner like adam taurus and would have some yandere tendencies // mental unstability/ax crazyness.

)

and in blazblue continuum shift ragna ended up losing his other arm ( the one that had been a real limb ) and being forced to get another artificial arm

so either when yang lose her other arm it will be a reference to how ragna lost his arm in continum shift or it will also be another reference to how ragna lost his arm to jin influenced by terumi . when jin influenced by terumi ( terumi ) meddled with his mind ) cut of ragnas arm he blamed ragna for what happeend going its your fault after he cut off ragnas arm so maybe yang will lose her other arm to someone blaming her for something (possibly someones death given that the nun who took care of ragna, jin and their sister saya died)

hakumen who started off as jin who was often called the hero of ikagura from an alternate timeline lost his love interest a red head named tsubaki who died and was sent back to the past injured where rachel offers to help him become a true hero. From here, his soul is bound to the Susano-o armor, and he becomes Hakumen the leader of the 6 heroes who is one of the strongest in the game

so jaune who has a desire to be a hero like his ancestors to the point he cheated his way into beacon and had a red haired love interest who died could be compared to hakumen/jin in that sense though their personality’s are completely different like how bullets personality is different from yangs

(also the fact that jin was adopted into the kisaragi family a noble family thats part of the 12 originator families in blazblue (and didnt care about bloodline and gathered talented people around the world) could be referenced with jaune being adopted into the arc family and is just so close to them that he doesnt care about them not being biologically related to him theyre family. and jaunes insecurities (and a possible previous event in his life given that jaune said in volume 1 that he wanted to stop being the guy stuck in a tree as his friends fought for their lives so its possible someone close to him died

so either if this is true with the jin and jaune connections and they do another blazblue reference with yang losing her other arm jaune could be the one to do it due to blaming yang for what happened . as a reference to jin going its your fault brother plus jin and hakumen had the desire to kill ragna in alot of the game series so what if jaune wants to kill yang )

another reason why I connect jin with jaune is due to how qrow rubys uncle she learnt everything from is alot like ragna and jaune and ruby are foils to each other so it fits

hawkeyedflame . tumblr . com/post/152581160728/on-rubys-elusive-character-development-or-why

“ jaune is a foil To Ruby. She’s a prodigy who quickly became a deadly warrior at a young age and is welcomed into Beacon two years early as a result while Jaune is a hard worker who progresses slowly and had to lie his way into Beacon because of his nonexistent combat background. Ruby is a strategist specialized on pre-defined team attacks and wields a self-made weapon capable of long range combat. Jaune is a tactician specialized in creating new team attacks according to his analysis on the battlefield and wields a family heirloom only capable of close range combat. Ruby has a rather broken family but they fully support her decision to become a huntress while Jaune’s family is large and united but they don’t support his choices nor have any faith on him. Ruby is a tomboy who dominates the battlefield but doesn’t enjoy dancing whereas Jaune tends to act girly and is initially terrible at fighting but also a great dancer. The more you look into them as a pair, the more contrasts that can be spotted in the details.”

jaune has a more “feminine way of dealing with emotions” while ruby has the more masculine way of dealing with emotions

aminoapps . com/c/rwby/page/blog/why-its-good-for-jaunes-semblance-to-be-a-support-type/xpp7_XQ4s2u6RGX2zboa6JwM2XMekWGZd68

“Joan of Arc is known for breaking gender stereotypes about what it meant to be a woman. And if you think about it in a lot of ways Jaune doesn’t fit into the stereotypical “man box.” We are don’t “men don’t cry.” He wears his emotions on his sleeve. While in the real world men (and in the world of RWBY BOTH men and women ARGUABLY) are told to be strong. And that many people superficially equate physical strength with heroism (Raven?) it is fitting that Jaune’s semblance doesn’t so much doesn’t so much empower himself, as it empowers others. (as well as himself but its more effective on others in the team since they are more skilled than him) The so called “Feminine” strength.” P.S. Hmm as a follow-up to my The Importance Of Foils Part 2 post. I think that Ruby, despite being a girl, fits into the “man box” better than anyone else including it’s UNHEALTHY WAYS OF DEALING WITH EMOTIONS. The only difference is on remnant, it’s not because a man doesn’t cry. But because “a hero doesn’t cry.”

ruby first activated her silver eyes leading to her to learn about them when she saw pyrrha jaunes partner impaled by cinder and burnt to ash failing to save pyrrha her awakening being in reaction to her death while jaune activated his semblance and realized what it was when he saw rubys partner weiss impaled by cinder and was able to save her life awakening his semblance to do so allowing him to learn what his semblance was ( which is a good example this is an example of them being foils and how its been shown and effected their storys )

@kali-tmblr

@darksaiyangoku

@gorillageek27

@thehtg-therealone

#rwby #rwby theory #rwby theories #jaune arc #rwby jaune #rwby yang #yang xiao long #rwby yang #yang rwby #rwby meta #ozma #rwby ozma

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aridara · 6 years

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Verifying a list of “hateful feminist quotes”. (From F to M)

Continuing my checking of whether these quotes are actually hateful opinions of feminists (instead of, say, non-hateful opinions, or opinions we can’t know where they came from, or fictional opinions made by fictional characters...) or not.

"I was, in reality, bred by my parents as my father's concubine... What we take for granted as the stability of family life may well depend on the sexual slavery of our children. What's more, this is a cynical arrangement our institutions have colluded to conceal.".

Sylvia Fraser Journalist

Unverifiable. Once again, the only places where this quote is cited is from this same copy-pasted “hateful feminist quotes” list, which I’ve shown (and will keep showing) over and over to be fucking dishonest, to say the least. By this point, NOBODY would give it the benefit of the doubt.

"All men are rapists and that's all they are"

Marilyn French, Authoress; later, advisoress to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.

Fictional - it comes from "The Women’s Room" (1977). Specifically, Val (one of the fictional characters in the book) says it right after her daughter has been raped.

"All patriarchists exalt the home and family as sacred, demanding it remain inviolate from prying eyes. Men want privacy for their violations of women... All women learn in childhood that women as a sex are men's prey."

Marilyn French, The Women's Room, Summit Books, 1977

True, but not hateful (and not from "The Women's Room"). It's definitely a denunciation of the rigid gender roles that put the man as the family’s head, and the woman as the servant who has to serve the man - even sexually. Notice how she talks about “patriarchists”? Yeah, those are the people who want to enforce those gender roles.

"The media treat male assaults on women like rape, beating, and murder of wives and female lovers, or male incest with children, as individual aberrations...obscuring the fact that all male violence toward women is part of a concerted campaign."

Marilyn French, The Women's Room, Summit Books, 1977

True, but not hateful (and not from "The Women's Room"). She was talking about rape culture, or one aspect of it - specifically: the refusal to see violence against women as a systemic issue. It’s easier to blame social problems on single deranged individuals (which are “not me”) rather than admit that they’re social problems (and thus “also me”); but it doesn’t solve those problems. This is what French was denouncing.

"My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter."

Marilyn French, Author "The Women's Room"

Again: fictional. "The Women's Room" is a fictional book.

“As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women…he can sexually molest his daughters… THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE.”

- Marilyn French

True, but not hateful; it has been massively (I suspect deliberately) edited. Here's the full quote, with the parts that anti-feminists chopped away in bold:

"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. Beyond that, it is not necessary to beat up a woman to bear her down. A man can simply refuse to hire women in well-paid jobs, extract as much or more work from women than men but pay them less, or treat women disrespectfully at work or at home. He can fail to support a child he has engendered, demand the woman he lives with wait on him like a servant. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women, whether mate, acquaintance, or stranger; he can rape or sexually molest his daughters, nieces, stepchildren, or the children of a woman he claims to love. THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE."

So, yeah. Anti-feminists forgot to include job discrimination, general disrespect, and treating your wife like a servant to the list; with their omission, they try to make French appear as if she was saying "most men are rapists, murderers, or beaters of women". Pretty fucking dishonest, to say the least.

"My own informal survey of adult women suggests that very few reach the age of twenty-one without suffering some form of male predation--incest, molestation, rape or attempted rape, beatings, and sometimes torture or imprisonment."

Marilyn French, The War Against Women, Ballantine Books, 1992, p. 195)

Unverifiable and not hateful. Given the massive bullshit that happened with the previous quote, I now suspect that anti-feminists attempted the same trick here - cutting away stuff like job discrimination/general disrespect/being treated like a servant.

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race."

Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.

Huh, look at that: a true and actually hateful quote. Good job. Have a cookie.

"[Men are] freaks of nature... full of queer obsessions about fetishistic activities and fantasy goals."

Germaine Greer, The Whole Woman, Knopf, 1999

Unverifiable. While various sources report the quote to try and attack Greer, I cannot find any part of the quote in the "The Whole Woman" ebook. Maybe there is, and I just cannot see it because it's just a preview, but I'm very doubtful.

"If women are to effect a significant amelioration in their condition it seems obvious that they must refuse to marry."

Germaine Greer, The Female Eunuch, McGraw-Hill, 1971, p. 317)

Unverifiable - same as the above - and probably not hateful, given that this is, once again, about forcing women into heteronormative gender roles and marriages. Maybe the quote really exists in the "The Female Eunuch" ebook; but I can't find it.

"...men bash women because they enjoy it; they torture women as they might torture an animal or pull the wings off flies."

Germaine Greer, The Whole Woman, Knopf, 1999

Unverifiable - see the previous. However, there are a few quotes where Greer points out that some men torture women, and very probably enjoyed doing so.

"The man regards (woman) as a receptacle into which he has emptied his sperm, a kind of human spittoon."

Germaine Greer, The Female Eunuch, McGraw-Hill, 1971)

Once again: unverifiable. But it looks like Greer here is talking about the attitude of many men at the time.

"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release."

Germaine Greer

True, but not hateful. Here's the original quote from 1970 (again, the bolded part is the one that anti-feminists cut out):

"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release. The problem of recidivism ought to have shown young men like John Greenaway just what sort of a notion security is, but there is no indication that he would understand it. Security is when everything is settled, when nothing can happen to you; security is the denial of life. Human beings are better equipped to cope with disaster and hardship than they are with unvarying security, but as long as security is the highest value in a community they can have little opportunity to decide this for themselves."

This isn’t about whether men should be all thrown in prison or not. This is about how putting “security” above everything else means stripping any choice from your life - which would make it so that it couldn’t even be called “life” at all.

In an interview Germaine Greer (radical feminist, writer) was asked the question, "You were once quoted as saying your idea of the ideal man is a woman with a dick. Are you still that way inclined?" Greer first denied that she had said it, and then replied, "I have a great deal of difficulty with the idea of the ideal man. As far as I'm concerned, men are the product of a damaged gene. They pretend to be normal but what they're doing sitting there with benign smiles on their faces is they're manufacturing sperm. They do it all the time. They never stop. I mean, we women are more reasonable. We pop one follicle every 28 days, whereas they are producing 400 million sperm for each ejaculation, most of which don't take place anywhere near an ovum. I don't know that the ecosphere can tolerate it."

Germaine Greer At a Hilton Hotel literary lunch, promoting her book, The Change-Women, Aging and the Menopause, Knopf, 1992 from a news report dated 11/14/91)

Unverifiable. It should say “SUPPOSEDLY from a newsreport THAT NOBODY SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO FIND”. So, yet another unsourced quote.

Oh, and the “My ideal man is a woman with a dick” quote? ALSO unsourced.

"The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together…. Whatever its ultimate meaning, the breakup of families now is an objectively revolutionary process…. No woman should have to deny herself any opportunities because of her special responsibilities to her children…."

Linda Gordon in "Functions of the Family," WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969

True - this quote is actually a really existing quote. It’s also distinctly non-hateful of men. It’s distinctly angry at the social imposition of marriage and the nuclear family system, though - but remember: the wife was supposed to stay at home and obey her husband in everything, back in 1969.

"And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference."

Susan Griffin

True, but not hateful. I’ve managed to track the quote. And guess what? It was a talk about how the social expectations of the time (this part was written in 1971) expected the woman to turn down sexual advances even if she desired them, because it was considered “unchaste” for a woman to desire sex; and expected the man to wear down the woman’s “reserves”, without checking whether the woman in question actually wanted the sex, or not. It the same part, Griffin explains how, *with this social system* (that she did NOT create, nor is she advocating for) the difference between “a man who wear down a woman’s reservations” and “a rapist” is simply in how much pressure they use to make the woman have sex with them.

“We live in a culture that condones and celebrates rape. Within a phallocentric, patriarchal state the rape of women by men is a ritual that daily perpetuates and maintains sexist oppression and exploitation. We cannot hope to transform “rape culture” without committing ourselves fully to resisting and eradicating patriarchy.”

–Bell Hooks, “Seduced by Violence No More,” in Stan, Adele ed. Debating Sexual Correctness (New York, 1995)

True, but not hateful. The book is specifically talking about rape culture - aka a culture that, even if it claims that rape is wrong, in practice it fails to adequately deal with rape, instead blaming women for getting raped. This, in turn, allows sexist men to oppress women with next to no consequences.

"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression..."

Sheila Jeffreys

Unverifiable. HOORAAY!

“In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them”

(Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College, and associate director of the school’s Center for Research on Woman).

Unverifiable, and probably not hateful. For starters, the source for this quote is Lew Rockwell, which is an INCREDIBLY far-right-biased source.

For another, the quote sounds like part of an argument in favor of the communal parenting, which is an argument that has been pretty explored. Also, note how she refers to communal parenting - not to women-only parenting.

"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have. He does not have it not because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it."

Former US Congresswoman Barbara Jordan

Huh, look at that. This quote (it’s reported in a 1992 issue of Texas Monthly, but the actual quote doesn’t have a date) is actually true, and does sound hateful. Can someone check out the score? Because, at the time of this writing, I checked 42 quotes, only 2 (possibly 3) of which were verified to be true and actually hateful.

"Marriage has existed for the benefit of men and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women.... Male society has sold us the idea of marriage.... Now we know it is the institution that has failed us and we must work to destroy it.... The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore, it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men."

Nancy Lehmann, Helen Sullinger, Declaration of Feminism, 1971

Unverifiable. Apparently there is a book titled "The document: a declaration of feminism" published in 1971; but there's no way to verify if that quote actually exists. And the link I provided is basically the only source of that book's existance - outside of the edited quote above, which is present only in anti-feminist websites.

There is also the "Declaration of the Rights of Woman and the Female Citizen", written by Olympe de Gouges in 1791. Coincidence? I have no idea. Maybe it is.

"Man-hating is everywhere, but everywhere it is twisted and transformed, disguised, tranquilized, and qualified. It coexists, never peacefully, with the love, desire, respect, and need women also feel for men. Always man-hating is shadowed by its milder, more diplomatic and doubtful twin, ambivalence."

Judith Levine

Maybe true, but there is no context. I can’t make heads or tails of what it actually means. It’s the same case as some of the Dworkin quotes - no indication of the work or the context it was taken from.

"I feel what they feel: man-hating, that volatile admixture of pity, contempt, disgust, envy, alienation, fear, and rage at men. It is hatred not only for the anonymous man who makes sucking noises on the street, not only for the rapist or the judge who acquits him, but for what the Greeks called philo-aphilos, 'hate in love,' for the men women share their lives with--husbands, lovers, friends, fathers, brothers, sons, coworkers."

Judith Levine, My Enemy, My love

Unverifiable. The only sources talking about this quote are anti-feminist ones.

"There are no boundaries between affectionate sex and slavery in (the male) world. Distinctions between pleasure and danger are academic; the dirty-laundrylist of 'sex acts'...includes rape, foot binding, fellatio, intercourse, auto eroticism, incest, anal intercourse, use and production of pornography, cunnilingus, sexual harassment, and murder."

Judith Levine; summarizing comment on the WAS document, (A southern Women's Writing Collective: Women Against Sex.)

The quote itself is unverifiable and not hateful, given that all of those acts have been (1) used by men against women, and (2) justified as “normal” sexuality by those same men.

However, the bit where the anti-feminist author of this list talks about “Women Against Sex” is false: the real title of the document Levine was talking about was "Sex resistance in heterosexual arrangements: Manifesto of the Southern Women’s Writing Collective". Because making up a false title to demonize feminists is acceptable behavior, am I right, anti-feminists? (# sarcasm)

"Men's sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can 'reach WITHIN women to fuck/construct us from the inside out.' Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women's own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, 'even if she does not feel forced."

Judith Levine

Slightly unverifiable - I can’t find neither a scan, nor the citation for the full Levine quote. What I did find was the book Levine was looking at - My Enemy, My Love (1993), a book that talks about “gender roles, the social definitions of masculinity and femininity, the culture’s assignment of certain exclusive traits to each biological sex, [which] have imprisoned us on either side of a divide”. Also: no mention about whether the women interviewed by Levine were feminists or not, and in particular, no mention of the context for the quote.

"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman."

Catherine MacKinnon

False. The quote apparently comes from Playboy, Oct 1986; but it wasn’t written by MacKinnon, nor anyone was able to track the instance where she supposedly originally said/wrote that.

"You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs."

Catherine MacKinnon, Feminism Unmodified: Discourses of Life and Law – Sex and Violence: A Perspective, Harvard University Press, 1987

True, but out of context. From what I can understand, this is from yet another discussion about non-con pornography (“Only Words”, 1993); MacKinon wasn't talking about families in general.

What's with anti-feminists taking discussions about problematic and sexist porn and deciding that feminists were talking about everyday life? What, do anti-feminist believe that pornography is an accurate representation of real li-

Nevermind, let's move on...

"Feminism, Socialism, and Communism are one in the same, and Socialist/Communist government is the goal of feminism."

Catherine MacKinnon" Toward a Feminist Theory of the State (First Harvard University Press, 1989), p.10

False. The quote is completely absent from MacKinnon's book, or any of her books. Apparently, this is a slightly modified quote from "The Unhappy Marriage of Marxism and Feminism".

"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent."

Catherine MacKinnon

Misattributed. The quote itself comes from "Professing Feminism", which wasn't written by MacKinnon, but by Daphne Patai and Noretta Koertge; they were talking about MacKinnon and Dworkin's opinions - they weren't quoting them. (And no, neither Dworkin nor MacKinnon believed that intercourse is rape.). The misattribution was caused by right-wing columnist Cal Thomas, who wrote an article about "Professing Feminism" and mistakenly attributed that quote to MacKinnon.

“The care of children ..is infinitely better left to the best trained practitioners of both sexes who have chosen it as a vocation…[This] would further undermine family structure while contributing to the freedom of women.”

–Kate Millet, Sexual Politics 178-179

Misattributed. Here, Millet isn't talking about his own beliefs; he's talking about Engels's. Specifically, he's talking about how the idea that "The woman is naturally the one best equipped to raise a child" has the effects of:

Put a limitation on the woman, but not the man. If the woman wants to, say, pursue a career, she's forced to deal with child-raising AND with pursuing the career; the man has to deal only with the latter, because society pressures the woman into doing the former.

It's inefficient, because you just decide that the woman is the one most capable of raising a kid, instead of looking at which person is the most capable.

"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage."

Robin Morgan.-From Sisterhood Is Powerful, (ed), 1970, p. 537

True, but not hateful. Again: “marriage” presupposed that the woman stayed at home and obeyed her husband in everything. I fail to see how being against the imposition of this kind of marriage/gender roles is hateful.

"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them."

Robin Morgan.-former president of the National Organization for Women (NOW) and editor of MS magazine

True (1973). I also fail to see what’s wrong with “class-hatred”, aka being justifiably angry with the oppressing class while fighting against its privileges. I mean, I do understand that nobody shouldn’t oppress anyone else even if they were oppressed beforehand, but here we’re talking about expressing justified anger against an oppressive system, and wanting to dismantle it. What, is that illegal now?

"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire."

Robin Morgan.

True, but not hateful. I fail to see where’s the problem with this quote. It’s basically the concept of “yes means yes” - you don’t have sex with anyone unless they want it. ...Oh, wait, now I see why anti-feminists have a problem with this quote.

"And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are oppressed, too, by sexism--the lie that there can be such a thing as 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of people commits against another group, specifically because of a 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group--skin, color, sex or age, etc. The oppressors are indeed FUCKED UP by being masters, but those masters are not OPPRESSED. Any master has the alternative of divesting himself of sexism or racism--the oppressed have no alternative--for they have no power but to fight. In the long run, Women's Liberation will of course free men--but in the short run it's going to cost men a lot of privilege, which no one gives up willingly or easily. Sexism is NOT the fault of women--kill your fathers, not your mothers".

Robin Morgan.

True (1970), but not hateful. This shows a big miscommunication problem between MRAs and feminists. See, many feminists define sexism not as “acts of individual discrimination against a gender”, but as “an oppressive social system where one gender is treated as inferior”. By that logic, what MRAs claim is “sexism against men”, feminists call it "discrimination against men", but not "sexism against men", because women did NOT create this system where masculinity is put on a (very narrow) pedestal and femininity is derided. As Morgan put it:

"The oppressors are indeed FUCKED UP by being masters, but those masters are not OPPRESSED. Any master has the alternative of divesting himself of sexism or racism—the oppressed have no alternative—for they have no power but to fight. In the long run, Women’s Liberation will of course free men—but in the short run it’s going to cost men a lot of privilege, which no one gives up willingly or easily."

You can’t compare the situation of an oppressed class (who has to tear down the system biased against it) with that of the privileged class (who actually made the biased system in the first place and could fix it). And what Morgan is saying is correct. Systematic oppression divide society in a privileged group (which has a certain amounts of benefits that the oppressed do not have, and/or is exempt from various disadvantages that instead the oppressed do face) and an oppressed one. Dismantling such a system DOES damage the privileged group, because it takes away their privileges - privileges that they shouldn't have in the first place, and that are based on the oppression of marginalized groups.

“My white skin disgusts me. My passport disgusts me. They are the marks of an insufferable privilege bought at the price of others’ agony.”

-Robin Morgan

Not hateful. From the looks of it, here Morgan is talking about the effects of white colonialism and racism - specifically how they benefit white or white-passing people such as her. For example: being allowed to travel or emigrate wherever you want and be treated as a person, while non-white immigrants are by default believed to be violent criminals, murderers, and rapists.

#debunking antifeminism

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