#fire emblem supports

[remnant-emblemeer]

i love that some parts of fire emblem are like "hey remember that time Frederick put a commissioned propaganda piece of prince Chrom naked around the Shepherds army camp? that's so silly" and others are like "hey remember when Sigurd got incinerated alive in the home of his murdered friend while his wife and the mother of his child watched and had no memory of him" like isn't that so. ._.

[arkus-rhapsode]

Let's Talk About Fire Emblem Supports: A Discussion on the State of one of Fire Emblem's Iconic Mechanics

So I'm sure if you are someone who is keyed into the Fire Emblem community, something that has been discussed for some time is the current state of the support system. Arguably Fire Emblem's defining feature which in recent years has almost come to eclipse other facets of the gameplay.

However, with that has come some pretty noticeable backlash. Lets back it up for a second.

This is not going to be a "This is the right way to do this and if you disagree you are wrong" post. This is me as a long time fan of the franchise giving my honest opinion on how I feel about these aspects of the game and why I think they are the way they are and what I think could be improved and what I think works as is. I don't think Fire Emblem or InSys are gonna go be "diluting" themselves if they don't make these improvements, nor do I think someone who has different interests in how the support system should be implemented is wrong. I'm just a fan with an opinion.

So Fire Emblem's support system has been with us since FE4 in a primordial state, but its modern day form really started in FE6. While entries after that varied in terms of things added to it, it was around Awakening with the franchise on dire straights did making it so every character could support and marry for their prime future baby. This pairing mechanic brought on a bunch of new fans that enabled them to get a bunch of character interactions that resulted in loads of content for fans to then take into transformative properties. But the thing is that a lot of Awakening worked in context. What was assumed to be the last FE means its flaws were less evident and were built with the child mechanic in mind.

Now, Awakening's supports are seen as okay supports plagued with a bunch of redundancies due to the fact that one character interacting with everyone character can only produce so much dialogue. That and each support's length could also lead to loads of padding. The child units were also discarded after Fates basically proved that the mechanic without some proper context can feel more intrusive. But that still leaves us with games with many many characters and a lot of interactions.

The criticism of modern FE Supports can vary but the general points are

Too many characters

Too much repetition in interactions

Length of each support

Separated from the events of the narrative

The supports themselves are just poorly written

This is also not ignoring the ways this has been shaken up like Shadows of Valentia's use of memory fragments, the base conversations of the Tellius games, the monastery scene of Three Houses etc. So any discussion of how these support systems could be improved often calls back to other variations of the support system. And that's at least how we will be trying to examine FE's support system, using its other systems and variants for reference and comparison.

So firstly, I think the stance people take on this will actually be different depending on what aspect of the game you value most. If you are a gameplay fiend your focus will be more on integrating supports into the gameplay the way a Persona game might. If you are a more narrative fan of Fire Emblem you would more take the stance that the supports are relevant and reactive to the plot. And if you're a character fan, you likely want the content of the supports to be plentiful but endearing to the characters. So I want to at least establish that where you fall on how supports are implemented will be of personal preference.

As this is my post, my personal stance is Fire Emblem is a narrative game with supports acting as ways to elevate the characters. As such, that is why I feel confident in saying that I am personally not a fan of the idea of making every FE character support relevant to the narrative. The narrative is important to me, but critical world building and character motives shouldn't just be buried in the supports or battle conversations. I shouldn't need to play with certain character combinations to find out vital information for the plot you are writing. In my personal opinion, the best remedy for this was the creation of the base convos. These were interactions the played out when certain conditions were met at certain points in the story.

This had allowed for a lot of side characters to feel as they had some relevance even if they weren't plot relevant. To contribute to how far along this journey has been and how a map scenario may relate to them. A small version of this was done in Garreg Mach Monastery where each chapter would allow for Byleth to walk around the hub world and speak with characters who would provide their thoughts on the previous chapter or what might be coming in the next chapter. These weren't as long as base convos, much shorter. But it still gave the idea of everyone contributing a new insight. That said, as much as I think base convos are good in games like FE9, they should not be a replacement for the current support system but rather an enhancement. These I would consider as narrative moments that often hinge on events that happened in the narrative. With character commenting and interacting off of it. But I feel that if we were to remove the support system and only have base convos we would be distancing a lot of the casual fans of FE who want to see characters interact, but not always as serious. And because FE is often a war story franchise, the tone of base convos are often serious in subject matter.

With Engage and the implementation of the somniel and even walking around defeated battlefields, I actually really would have liked base convos to be implemented this way. Perhaps after a battle you may be able to walk around a camp and see an indicator of who you can talk to about an event that just happened that would trigger a more fleshed out cutscene. I say camp, because while I appreciate the monastery, but one of the issues I have is that it is a stationary location and makes FE not so much a journey but rather just able to fast travel to certain conflicts. Making the world feel smaller and repetitive.

Most likely than not, you will not unlock every support in game on your first try. This to me adds replayability and an incentive to grind with characters you may not regularly use. However, in the case of base convos, unlocking them often hinges on them just being alive at the time. So if you were someone like me who impulsively starts over even on casual mode to not lose a character, when you see all base convos, you have seen them all. You can only walk around the Monastery and ask Sylvain what he thinks about fighting Miklan only so many playthroughs before you just don't bother. The replayability will then come from difficulty spikes and not character or story incentives. So I do believe base convos should return but as an enhancement not a replacement.

(Some may suggest that one could implement a support system lock like FE3H did with its time skips, but that suffered from an issue of not accounting for everything interaction when the time skip happened. So it actually feels very bizarre to watch Ashe and Petra have a lunch time excursion in Faerghus when the country is apparently under occupation. So I think weaving supports with narrative dependency for some supports but not others will actually be more confusing.)

In fact I daresay, supports that are disconnected could actually add levity. Mia and Ilyana's support is almost completely comedic, and it feels more endearing than watch the two of them brood over Daein and Crimea.

Speaking of repetition, lets talk about support redundancy. This is part of another issue in FE's supports which we will get into, but let me at least try to establish what people mean by redundant. I find saying FE characters are "too anime" rather lazy and dismissive. At their core a lot of side FE characters are stock characters with some limited traits. So when you hear Sully talking about working out, or Rosado's obsession with cute things, or Raphael loving food, a lot of the supports they have can come back to or revolve around these topics. And when you have games with the other issue of many many characters hearing them have these convos around these topics again and again can be very boring.

Some could say that this is an easy fix by simply reducing the number of characters. Focus more on say the size of a persona cast. Well the difference is that FE is a tactical RPG with permadeath while Persona is an RPG with a focus on time management. The smaller sized cast benefits the player in ways that help them interact with every character, but not having to worry about one becoming unplayable after you spend a lot of time on one. FE however as a tactical RPG where the mass amount of characters is so you have options to solve strategic map scenarios. Reducing the number of characters to only plot relevant ones would be very difficult. Hypotethically, if we reduced Engage to the characters who have to be around for the plot that only leaves you with Alear, Vander, Clanne, Framme, Mauvier, Veyle, Alfred, Ivy, Diamant, and Timerra. Not exactly a plethora of options for making interesting maps.

Now InSys seems to have begun implementing changes to this already. No longer are we going full Awakening or Fates with supports. Supports are much more limited in scope but not quite as anemic a line up as Shadows of Valentia did with who could support who. 3H and Engage have honestly made far more strides in lowering the number of supports and honing in on who may be relevant for a character to interact with and who outside of that circle could they interact with. Three Houses often relies on the house members each being to support each other with maybe one or two students from other houses or the monastery staff. Engage seems largely to focus on characters from countries having the same interactions with a few from others. This is a good thing, honestly if we were to get a remake of Radiant Dawn, I would love for something similar to be implemented between the Ike, Elincia, and Micaiah casts with some crossover supports when you get to the back half of that game.

So if this is already something InSys is improving, why is it something people are still critical of? Well I think what some may miss is that even if we compact a cast to more manageable interactions, that still leaves the interactions themselves.

Remember how I said Fire Emblem characters are stock characters with some limited traits? Well that is often done with identifiability. When you meet L'Arachel as a holy women but she has a snotty attitude or Sylvain the noble who hits on every woman, its done so you can recognize this character. But when you get into their supports, you often see that there might be reasons for why they act this way or it makes them more fleshed out and rounded characters than how they may seem at face value. This is where I think some Fates fans will often argue that Nohr's cast is very compelling in their supports even if the game's narrative had made many come off as one note. But you can see the flippside with Engage where its supports are more manageable, people didn't think supports were elevating the characters in ways that you had known them. That's not to say all of them, Yunaka is a stand outing how her supports both inform her as a non plot relevant character but also endear her to the audience. This to me is a sign that supports will ultimately be cases of writing. And there can just be poor writing and utilization of characters. This can also hinge on context as well as 3H has recruitment of characters far different from any FE game and just hands you your house with the expectation your interactions with them will make you learn more about them rather than just playing and recruiting on a quest like some may want.

I may have been a bit snide to Shadows of Valentia as even by the account of wanting less quantity of supports, I still found it almost too small. But even then some of the supports are the best in the franchise. Particularly Python and Clive's. But I don't think this was good because SoV had less character supports, I think it was good because the writers had looked at this pairing of characters and what each one was about and what depths could the reveal about each character. I would very much like to see that for a majority of supports.

Last point is length, and honestly we've seen this improved with games like 3H. Some supports can just be short. In fact some people can have only two support chains. Honestly, just doing more of that would've probably led to less issues overall and hope for that to cut down on padding.

So with all this in mind, what is my final take away. Well I ultimately think it comes back to what I usually want out of a Fire Emblem game. The narrative should be all there in the campaign with characters arcs for plot relevant characters, but the supports should be used as a way to enhance these units. Adding dimensions to characters who ultimately don't factor into the plot as a whole. I think 3H did make a lot of these improvements particularly because it was made with the social aspect in mind with that game practically carried by all of its characters and their depths. But I did feel as the narrative of 3H had suffered and wasn't all that tight. Post Engage, I think we are seeing a system I'd like to maintain, but I think what was lost was some of the added depths to cast members that supports can provide as well. Yes, Engage was made with a lot of celebratory fun in mind so it wasn't all that serious, but it would be nice to get more Yunakas and Pandreos in that case than say Ambers. Another aspect is the pairing, and I really hope that pairing characters without the need for child units returns as well.

I am all for the return of base convos like FE9, but I don't think it should be a replacement. Again it is another form of enhancement not replacement for supports. I think completely junking supports in favor of the base convos would be a bad idea especially with newer fans of the franchise. Overall, FE supports I feel are where they should be, but there are plenty of minor tweaks that could be implemented, if just more utilization of the characters beyond their face value.

[asmontosborne]

This was meant to be a writing blog

https://archiveofourown.org/works/62055499

As of today, it actually is! The other day, I finally published my first work on AO3. It's the first chapter of Leopold, Unrivaled General: a collection of fanmade Supports centered around Leopold von Bergliez (aka Caspar's dad).

I hope you enjoy! If you do, please consider reblogging and leaving a comment.

(learn more under the cut)

If you know me from other places, you may know that Leopold has become one of my greatest obsessions, up there with Riku Doldo III and Elizabello II from One Piece, and yes, even Alois from Fire Emblem.

Alois x Leopold is actually my OTP: it is a pairing I think about daily, and one I am writing a rather long multi-chapter fic about. However, this is a project that revolves exclusively around Leopold, and Alois will only be featured in his own chapter.

You may be wondering how I plan to write Supports on a character that gets so little exploration in the actual games: the answer is, of course, headcanon! This is really what the project is all about.

I call it a reverse character study: instead of breaking down a popular character, I've added a lot of depth to someone who isn't explored much in canon. Each conversation will show you a different side of Leopold: hopefully you'll be charmed!

[plagues02]

Rose and Alear Supports

C Support

Rose: Divine one? Why are you just laying there?

Alear: Huh? Oh, Rose, did you need me?

Rose: No,, no, not really. I was just going for a stroll. This is an odd place to lay out.

Alear: Heh, I guess it is. Everywhere else was busy so I decided to lay here. Just,, enjoy the sun.

Rose: I see,, 

Alear: Rose? Is something on your mind?

Rose: How do you do it?

Alear: Pardon?

Rose: I mean,, you’re a dragon. A divine one, who slept for thousand years then thrown head first into a war. I don’t how you do it. It’s,, oh nevermind

(Rose leaves)

Alear: Hey! Wait!

B Support

Alear: Rose, there you are!

Rose: Oh? You were looking for me?

Alear: Yes, I wanted to talk to you about the last time we talked. You asked me how I do it.

Rose: Look, I spoke without thinking about it, and I didn’t mean anything about it. I’m sorry, Divine one.

Alear: There’s nothing to appoglize for. Actually, I came looking for you for an answer.

Rose: Hm?

Alear: I wake up every morning, and I think about those I care about. My friends,, my mother, I keep going for them, for the future they deserse.

Rose: Oh,, I expected that honestly.. I mean everyone looks to you. I wouldn’t expect anything else.

Alear: Is that about,, your birth family?

Rose: What?

Alear: I mean,, you’re a dragon too. Sure, you’re a fell dragon, but you’re on our side. Do you feel out of place?

Rose: I,, need some time to think about that. I’m sorry.

A Support

Rose: Divine one! There you are!

Alear: Oh, Rose. You’re in good spirits together.

Rose: Yup! The village we stopped at was full of nice people. It felt good helping them like that.

Alear: I’m glad to see you’re doing better. You seemed down the last few weeks.

Rose: Well, I thought about your question. Then I thought about my family,, not my birth family. My family. The Brodian royalty. Father wouldn’t like to see me like this. Even if it was about my fell dragon blood. He would tell me to pick myself up and fight for what I thought was right.

Alear: Oh?

Rose: Yeah! We’re going to stop Sombron, family or not. He’s going down, and he’s not family. I’m a prince of Brodia, and it’s about time I start acting like it. Oh, and Divine One.

Alear: Yes?

Rose: I,, thank you. I don’t think I would have realized this without you.

Alear: Of course. I’m glad to help.

Ring Support

Alear: Rose, can I talk to you?

Rose: Yeah sure, what’s up?

Alear: You’ve been so busy with training that I haven’t been able to talk to you. Well, I’m also been busy so I guess I can’t put all the blame on you.

Rose: We’re getting close to fighting Sombron. I’m sure we’re all busy, and well, I’m also sure you have a lot to think about,, uncle.

Alear: Man, that sounds so weird to hear from you. Haha, I still can’t believe we’re related.

Rose: Yeah, it’s strange. A fell dragon turned divine by the love of his mother. It’s a fairytale, isn’t it?

Alear: A fairytale turned real life. It’s so hard to believe yet here we are. Here I am, and you’re my nephew.

Rose: Haha, well, what did you want to talk to me about again?

Alear: Here.

Rose: Huh? What? Is this the pact ring?! You’re give it to me?

Alear: Yes. I want you to have it. You’ve been here for me even while struggling with your identity, and you’ve proven time and time again how trustworth you are. Rose, please wear this pact ring and continue to support me.

Rose: ,,,

Alear: Rose?

Rose: Divine One, my uncle, I,, of course.

Alear: Really?

Rose: Yes. You didn’t turn your back on me when we found out I was a fell dragon. Nor when Sombron tried to used me against you. You can count me on your side. Oh, it fits perfectly.

Rose: My ax is yours to lead. Together let’s make the land a place to be proud of.

[glfry]

Okay maybe they were cooking with this

[krazieka2]

Fe3h did not have a beauty pageant sequence, but if it did I'm 99% sure this is how it would go

[t0bey]

Another perspective of these two’s C support lol

[tuinendraws]

A while ago there was going around an art challenge where you draw your favourite Fire Emblem character of each letter of the alphabet. Figured I'd give it a shot, let's see if I can finish this. Here's ABC.

[sid3buns]

" I am me - Felix Hugo Fraldarius. There is no one else. "

[folkvangr-art]

In Askr’s name

[wild-moss-art]

this is how I feel when I play azure moon

[koroart]

Colored this sweet DimiDue piece for @/fireboxemblem on Twitter/X! 💙🩵✨

[aquanutart]

- I'm sorry. It's just that when people look at me, I get…nervous.

- Is that so? I have just the thing. Wait here! [...] I wrote my request down. That way you don't have to talk to me.

[remnant-emblemeer]

Sylvain Jose Gautier you will never beat the depression allegations if you keep saying shit like this

[plagues02]

Ridley and Hector Supports

C Support

Hector: Ah, Ridley.

Ridley: Hector.

Hector: … 

Ridley: Is there something you need?

Hector: Oswin mentioned you had sent a letter not to long ago. Was it to my brother?

Ridley: Straightforward,, just like always,, yes, it was Uther. Oh, don’t give me that look.

Hector: ,,, Why?

Ridley: Hm?

Hector: Why are you writing Uther?

Ridley: He worries for you, Hector. I was merely trying to ease his worry.

Hector: ,,,

Ridley: Is that all? We are in battle.

Hector: ,,,

B Support

Hector: You wrote to Uther again.

Ridley: It is not a crime for a friend to write a friend, Hector.

Hector: What was it about?

Ridley: You again. At least parts. Others were about the Black Fang and where we are in our battle.

Hector: I don’t understand you,,, or Oswin. Oswin joined because Uther asked him. You did too, didn’t you?

Ridley: To start, sure, but I stay because of Eliwood. His passion, his goals. I believe in him.

Hector: And you write to Uther because,,,?

Ridley: Heh, he’s a friend, Hector. A friend I care about. I’m just giving updates. Besides, writing down what I’m feeling helps,, well, figure out how I’m feeling. Maybe you could try one day.

Hector: ,,, Heh, not happening.

A Support

Ridley: Hector! Did I see you writing earlier?

Hector: Yeah,, didn’t you want me to?

Ridley: I mean, yeah, but I was still shocked to see it. After all, you never seemed very interested in it.

Hector: I’m not, but,, I was thinking about my brother.

Ridley: Oh, Uther? Where you writing to him?

Hector: ,,, Yes, I wanted to tell him about what’s been going on through my eyes, and,, I wanted to ask him about what’s happening in Ostia.

Ridley: Heh, I see. I hope you get written back soon. He’s wrote to me and Oswin a few times; I’m sure he’ll be happy to you writing him.

Hector: I’m sure he was happy with yours and Oswin’s letters too. Not just mine.

Ridley: Haha, well, he’ll be suprised at least. I’m glad you decided to write him.

Hector: ,,, why?

Ridley: Sorry, I have to go. Good luck in the fight. [He leaves the screen]

Hector: ,,, sigh I hope he’s still around to receive the letter.

[kimikaami]

watching, waiting, worrying

for @ethereal-will