#for all the 'el know's something's going on' truthers out there

[chirpsythismorning]

📝 💐 🛼 💔⏪️💭🧊🌄❤️‍🩹

I Know There's Something's Going On by Frida

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El's Not Stupid

[maddy-ferguson]

once you see the single nancy vision you really can't unsee it

[mamawasatesttube]

Kon-El questions 3, 7 and 16

3. Least favorite canon thing about this character?

hmmm. how do i put this. it's like... the way karl kesel treated him as a self-insert for his own teenage fantasy self or whatever sometimes. obviously this comes out in the way he gets preyed on by adult women and this is played off as cool and chill, but it also comes out in the way a) kesel writes his flirting. sometimes it's very endearing and cringefail, and other times he's kissing women without consent, and that's played off as chill and fine because kesel thinks it should be and the women in question almost always are fine with that, but also b) he writes off concerns about indigenous hawaiians in kon's narrative (like silver sword or ...man i'm forgetting that kid who gets jealous of him and has powers about it for a minute, but that narrative). and like. yeah. white man in the 90s wrote this for SURE. i don't think it's like, written in the absolute poorest taste imaginable, because there's a lot of ways where it seems almost like they were trying to be respectful of native hawaiian culture, but then there's shit that's so far off the mark it's like. dude. and it's very evident that it just reflects karl kesel's own views much more than any character in-narrative.

7. What's something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you like?

lmaooo that's a toughie!!!! fanon kon at large is just. straight up not my boy. however there's a subset of fandom who leans into him being genderqueer/gnc/trans a lot more than canon ever has and i looove that. trans kon truthers lets go ♥

16. What's your least favorite ship for this character?

LORD. tim/ber/kon is the one that makes me roll my eyes hardest, alongside the rarer but no less irksome ber/kon. it's like... this is 100% not about kon as a character. this is about tim. ber/kon is almost funny in that it's entirely about tim but with tim himself cut out of the picture. but tim/ber/kon is just "let's take tim's most popular two fanon love interests and just shove all of them together!" and i have yet to see Anything even remotely try to convince me why kon and bernard should give a shit about each other. like, MAYBE you could sell it as a loooong slow burn, but i just. i don't see it man. putting the rest under a cut bc i AM gonna ramble about why i dislike it, so if you like tim/ber/kon or tim/ber and don't wanna see that, keep scrolling here👍!!

this is also partly bc i just... man i really wanted to like bernard and tim/ber but there's nothing there. i knew i didn't like rebirth tim characterization going in when i read tdr but i was hoping i'd at least find some crumbs. it's all just ... like there's no substance to it. there's no conflict, no character flaws, no "why do they even like each other???", no particular way they seem to help each other grow. it's just tropey "told, not shown" fluff where megfitz insists they are SO in love and perfect for each other, over and over, without backing that up really at all, and it just holds absolutely no appeal to me. and when it's just tim/ber i'm like yeah ok sure it's not my thing but whatever. but when people start trying to shove kon into there i'm like NO!!!!!! sdjkfhkd like im just SO unconvinced and it feels like such a great steaming heap of Nothing.

the main reason that is is that to me a relationship needs to have an arc. it can't just be stagnant. if there's no conflict, if there's no room for growth, if there's no development, it falls apart in my eyes. it doesn't feel like a real story about actual people. and as far as the tim/ber dynamic established in tdr, there's just. nothing. even the fact that bernard apparently somehow knows that tim is robin, which should be a HUGE source of conflict, is completely glossed over. it never comes up in any way.

like, we know that tim wants to tell people, but holds back out of a sense of duty. in robin '93, he agonizes about this with steph. but when bruce tells her his identity without his consent - which steph tells him bruce did immediately - he flips the fuck out!!!! he panics and runs away and he's furious with them both!!! so you'd ostensibly think that bernard knowing, and then not telling him he knows, would be sowing the seeds for an explosive conflict later down the line. especially because bernard now knows that tim is just. lying to him. all the time. shamelessly and blatantly lying through his teeth. and sure, it's for a good cause. right? but you'd think that in a relationship that's only just been established, just for a few months, that would also be offputting!! you'd think he'd start getting more and more unhappy that tim is just constantly lying to him and he knows it!! because he knows it about the robin secret, but what else might tim be lying to him about??? he knows now that tim has no qualms just lying to his face all the goddamn time, and he's... FINE with that???? there's this giant secret they're both dancing around and it's set up that there's just. N O T H I N G done with that. it drives me up the wall. i found this absolutely infuriating to read. both of them just being so one-dimensionally "oh we're in looooove so nothing else matters" that it erodes not only tim's specific characterization but bernard's ability to react like . idk. a human being? it just feels like running into dead end after dead end.

so yeah adding kon into that mix makes me want to tear my hair out bc it just feels SO surface-level. it's like... how much of him are you gonna shave off to fit him into this soulless, conflictless mold? it's like how i get annoyed when tim/kon fics ignore kon being genuinely really upset tim didn't share his identity with the team in yj98, but worse. because identity shit REALLY matters to kon. kon has never dated anyone who didn't know he was superboy. all of his civilian friends in sb11 know he's superboy. like, he does Not get close to people if he can't share that. it would be!!! a source!!! of conflict!!! but i've never seen Any ship content for tim/ber/kon that isn't just either completely declawed fluff that's just oh hehe tim has two boyfriends, or "kon angsting over tim dating someone else uwu" bullshit, which occasionally leads into completely declawed "tim has two boyfriends" fluff. it just does such a disservice to every character involved imo.

[emblazons]

you've been writing a lot about parentified Mike lately, and while I appreciate it, from a story perspective I just don't understand why.

Maybe its just because I'm an elmike truther, but it really doesn't make sense to me why they would put such an unpleasant aspect into their friendship or romance when they could have just had her upset at him over Max's death or not sharing interests? With steve and nancy they broke up over barb and nancy wanting something else which made of sense without making steve "parent" her. idk. Maybe you're the wrong person to ask lol I'm just thinking out loud

I mean. Maybe I'm not the best person to give insight into why the duffers do what they do, but I can give why I think they did it?

Forewarning: this got really long, apologies lmao

Honestly (and take this from an out-of-universe perspective): I think they're fully aware of the strangeness of El as a character, and how she has a lot of narrative/personal "growth needs" that other characters don't just by nature of her background. She even from the pitch is referred to as "the outsider," and all of her arc, not just the romantic one, has been centered around finding a 'home' in the world, on top of finding the family she lacked before.

This, I'm almost certain, is why she always ends up on different paths than every other person she interacts with—she started with almost no sense of self as an individual, which means a sense of "self" has to be built and discovered (and remembered) for El in a way it already has been for our other characters. Max, Mike, Will, Dustin, Lucas—all of them have interests and desires, a sense of family (good or bad), know what they enjoy, and are evolving as they go along...but El didn't at the start of ST beyond lab trauma, which is why The Duffers have centered almost all of her character growth since then around discovering where she came from & who she wants to be.

With Mike though...there is an entirely different set of relational and character needs that have to be addressed. With Mike, the main struggles he has (from the pitch, again) are with insecurity, his belief that a girl will resolve that insecurity, his feeling valueless unless he can do something for the people he loves (almost like 'earning his place' in their lives) and his (almost certain) queerness...combined with how he is, at the end of the day, just another "everyman" guy.

Unlike El, Mike has some sense of personhood, his own established friends and interests and a home—but he doesn't feel like he has a place he's intrinsically appreciated, because (for whatever reason) he feels who he is inherently inadequate. Its why every season (and every time we hear Finn dig a little into Mike's character) we hear about Mike trying to serve others and "feel needed again," despite being hesitant to let them in—he desires unconditional acceptance, and to be valued for who he is inherently...while also being terrified to let people in enough to see him (lest his core identity be rejected).

When Mike and El were just friends, it was easier to sort them out as some version of "equals;" we all have friends who are in different life phases than us, or who have different needs we're trying to walk alongside as they try to meet them, which is why their friendship is cute in S1. With actual romantic partners though, we introduce an element of "trying to get your needs met" with the person you're most closely involved with...and for Mike and El, that means blending "a nebulous sense of self and desire to find an identity + family" with "a desire to have a girl fill a sense of inherent unworthiness," which, as most of us can see, leads to disaster.

Basically: From the snowball onward, writing romantic mlvn meant exploring what happens when you mix what El is looking for with what Mike tries to do to feel valued...and The Duffers have decided (rightfully, I think) that this means Mike is going to (consciously or not) move towards becoming the things El lacks to "become valuable," aka: protection from the "bad men," someone who is able to keep her safe from them, and...someone who can help her fill her needs for home + family, even though he is dramatically under-equipped at all of 12-15 to meet that task.

Because (especially s4) one of El's core needs has become a healthy father figure and found family, Mike is going to move toward behaving that way to be valuable...which means he's going to inadvertently conflate himself with the men who have also placed themselves in that role: Hopper and Brenner. It also means that Mike is going to feel that same "my child is leaving the nest" energy when El "grows up" and into herself as a wholly independent entity—which is why we see him say as much to Will in the van before the painting—

—and why it sometimes seems like El is almost "rebelling" against Mike as much as she has Hopper and Brenner over the seasons.

To your point though: all of this is inherently different from Steve and Nancy...because both Steve and Nancy had that sense of individual identity that El lacked at the start of the show. There was no space for a "parental" aspect to enter their romance in that sense—it was just two people who were incompatible, which is why they failed. Similarly, if Mike and El would have started the romantic part of their relationship at end of S4 points of the narrative—or even end of S3, after El had a second to come into her own with Max—things would have been a lot different for them, I think.

Only...that's not what happened, and...not how they're resolving Mike's insecurity about being inherently valuable. They broke Mike and El down romantically vis a vis this "she's looking for herself and he's trying to fill his own void with her" track, and then gave Will the entirety of the hand to soothe Mike's deepest fears instead, which is why Mike and El will break up and Mike will end up with and around Will more, because Will knows Mike’s heart and sees Mike as an equal even with his flaws...and loves him for it. 🤷🏽‍♀️

(There are also (in my opinion) fundamental thematic reasons they were working toward as reason why they wrote even the breakdown of mlvn that way (the themes of rejecting forced conformity, found family, and even embracing your love for things other people might think are childish are served by this "version" of the Mlvn to Byler transition) but. I can see why someone wouldn't like it if they were attached to Mike and El being close anyway lmao).

Anyway! I hope...that helps? Honestly that's just how I've come to understand it, and hope that offers some sort of solace or explanation. Its what makes the most sense to me anyway (lol).

Regardless, thanks for the ask! :)

[aemiron-main]

this show makes me insane the gay Mike analysis makes me insane the way that el’s character form the very beginning aligns perfectly with an arc about Mike being gay/having never loved El romantically is INSANE because it would never work with any other character/girl that isn’t El especially not without ruining their friendship in the end.

But long story short (gonna talk about this at length in the analysis) because El is who she is and is the character that she is, raised in a lab but still loving but also knows how to hold her own etc, she’s been raised outside of the typical heteronormative homophobic society, narratively she’s PERFECT for gay Mike in a show where you’re not supposed to hate people for being gay. Because in the end, when El and the audience find out that Mike never loved El romantically because he’s gay (which imo is very much already demonstrated regardless of s5), El isn’t going to hate him for being gay or be upset that he’s gay the way that somebody who was raised in a heteronormative/homophobic society and then had their heart broken by a gay man likely would. El isn’t going to hate him for anything imo but she’s going to be upset with him but NOT not going to be upset with him because he’s gay/never loved her: she’s going to be upset with him because he lied to her and his from her.

I’m sure she was upset about him not loving her at first, esp before she starts to get an inkling that’s he’s gay, as we see with the bedroom fight in s4, but even in that scene, she’s more upset about the fact that he’s lying to her, that he denies that he never says it. She’s upset that he doesn’t say it/write it, sure, but the main upset imo comes from him lying about it. Especially since even in s3, El was upset, sure, that Mike couldn’t come over to make out the day after Hopper threatened Mike. She was upset about that lack of love/affection! But she was more upset about the lying. She broke up with over the lying, not over him not coming to see her/display affection. Especially since when Mike explains why he couldn’t come over, because of hopper’s threats, if El was still solely focused on Mike loving her/that affection, she would have blamed hopper, as she’s done in the past, and let Mike off the hook. But she doesn’t. Because that’s not what she’s upset about- the lying is.

And I think that especially once El realizes that Mike not loving her had nothing to do with her, and everything to do with him and being gay, and that it’s not that he just loves Will more than her as a person, it’s that he could never love her at all, by NO fault of her own, she’s going to be more understanding.

Again I love bi and unlabelled Mike truthers but NARRATIVELY ALONE bc even tho messy situations like that DO happen irl, I feel like explicitly gay Mike works better because that way, El isn’t pitted against Will. It’s not a matter of actual choice between them, or who Mike loves more. It’s about never having loved El at all, by no fault of her own, because he was unable to. Somebody like El, who feels unloveable, getting an ending where Mike reveals that he just loves Will more? Even if he did ever love her? And even if he never loved her but is still bin, that still shows that there’s something about El as a person that Mike does not love. But if Mike is gay, then it’s not about El at all. It’s not about her being unloveable or loved less compared to Will- it’s about Mike and who he is able to love and his lack of attraction to women.

That’s one of the big things for me about gay Mike from a narrative standpoint and why I believe it’s been set up from the beginning ESPECIALLY in regards to his relationship with El and why El is written the way that she is- it immediately recontextualizes Mike and el’s relationship both for the audience and for El. It shows that El, who has felt unloveable, felt like a monster, felt that she can only be loved as a superhero, and never loved for herself, is not unloveable. It’s that Mike is incapable of loving her. She is not incapable of BEING loved, Mike is incapable of loving her.

If Mike was portrayed as attracted to women and genuinely romantically in love with El at one point, then when Byler becomes canon, it’s about a choice of El over will, which again happens irl for sure, and Mike would not be wrong or bad for making that choice, but NARRATIVELY because these are characters who have themes and arcs and allegories, Mike being anything but gay imply that there is something about El as a person that he doesn’t love, that he won’t love, that there is something about El that is unloveable, which feels like a poor way to address the arc of a character who has canonically felt unloved for the majority of her life and feels unloveable.

But once Mike is confirmed to be gay, it’s not about El at all. It’s about Mike. It’s not that she can’t be loved, it’s that HE can’t love her. He is not physically capable of it. And absolutely, Bi people are MORE than capable of not loving certain people, that they can’t love them because they don’t like who they are as a person, or aren’t attracted to them as a person physically and personality wise, but if Mike is gay, he also literally CANT love her but not because of who she is or what she looks like or anything to do with El- it’s because of who MIKE is. Millie even said herself that Mike Can’t love El in the way that she wants him to. It’s not that he won’t or doesn’t want to, it’s that he can’t.

Like I said, I know that messy situations about falling out of love with someone happen irl, and Mike wouldn’t be wrong or bad for that, not at all. (he’d be wrong for lying about it though just like how he’s wrong for lying about not loving El int he context of being gay). But narratively, if Mike is anything but gay, then there is SOMETHING about El as a person, physically or personality wise or both that he does not like. Which again is valid and happens irl- but when it comes to el’s narrative as a character, as someone who’s centered around feeling unloved for who she is as a person, it’s not the best way to handle that narrative imo, especially if we still want Mike and El to be close/friends the end, which I think is what the duffers are going for, esp since like I said, due to her upbringing and unique character, El wouldn’t hate Mike for being gay/be upset with him because of that. But she IS upset about the idea that there’s something about HER that is unloveable (see: the way she tries to change herself and act like someone she’s not at the airport and rink o mania) and she IS upset about Mike lying to her. So if Mike just doesn’t love HER/loves will more, which, if he’s anything but gay, is the case, then it’s hard to resolve things between Mike and El in a positive way because they get hit but a.) El’s upset about Mike not loving her for who she is/feeling unlovable and b.) Mike lying to her. But if Mike is gay, then a.) is removed, and it’s just upset about Mike lying to her, which, him lying to her about being gay, like I said, is something that I think that El could understand without hating him for it, without being homophobic towards him because of her unique character and upbringing.

And I think that’s the big thing about Mike and his inability to say “I love you” to El. It’s not that he won’t say it or that he doesn’t want to, because then why not just frame it around Mike not being ready to grow up and say it? It’s that he can’t, it’s framed that he can’t say it, he physically cannot get the words out during the aisle scene in season 3 or during the bedroom fight scene. He only manages to say it when El is dying- the only reason why he CAN say it then is because he’s not saying it to El when she’s conscious, and because of something I’m going to explain here but also more in depth during the analysis:

If Mike not being able to say I love you = Mike being gay, and, as I’m going to talk in my analysis, Mike throughout s4 likely knows he is gay/is figuring it out for sure throughout s4 but is trying to decide whether to be in or out of the closet. So, the monologue is his ripping off the bandaid, his “I’m not going to come out as gay I’m going to hide this forever, as far as anyone knows I’m not gay” moment. And that’s why he can say “I love you” (in addition to the fact that he doesn’t even know if El can hear it), because in that moment, for the rest of his life, he thinks he is going to be not gay (gay = not able to say ily, not gay = can’t say ily). But just like other parts of the monologue, which are verifiably untrue, it’s not true. Mike is gay and isn’t going to be in the closet for the rest of his life, regardless of what he thinks. His monologue/attempt to make that choice FAILED, it was full of lies. Mike is lying to himself and to El in that scene. He’s not going to stay in the closet forever. He doesn’t love her.

Again, like I said, Mike is framed in a way where it’s about the idea that he CANNOT say he loves her, like PHYSICALLY CANNOT rather than the idea that he’s not ready, or doesn’t want to. Because he does. That’s the thing. Mike, part of him WANTS to love El, wants to be “normal,” wants to love her in the way she deserves and feels guilty for not being able to do so. We see this in his character. Part of him WANTS to love her, part of him he WANTS to say it but he CANT. They’ve framed it not as personal choice, not as him not liking El/hating her, because he DOES care for her as a person, he DOES idolize her even and DOES care about her, genuinely. But he CANT love her romantically. It’s not that he won’t, or doesn’t want to because there’s something he doesn’t like about El as a person- it’s because he CANT, because he’s gay. It’s not about El at all.

He CANT say it until the monologue. And when he does, like I said, it’s tied to lies about himself and about trying to ‘choose not to be gay/come out of the closet’. He CAN say it in that moment because in a weird way, in his mind, he’s “not gay anymore” because he’s choosing to stay in the closet forever (which is NOT how it works you can’t choose it of course but MIKE needs to realize this, realize that being in the closet forever and acting as if he’s not gay doesn’t make him able to love El, doesn’t make him not gay, even if it makes him able to say it, and even then, he can’t say it to be conscious face and again it’s tied to other lies.)

Narratively, if Mike wheeler is explicitly gay, then it’s not a choice- what isn’t a choice? Not loving El is not a choice. The love triangle is not a choice. The ‘choice’ between Will and El isn’t actually a choice. There IS NO LOVE TRIANGLE. THATS THE THING THE LOVE TRIANGLE DOES NOT EXIST!! BECAUSE EL IS NOT A VIABLE OPTION FOR MIKE!! WILL AND ELL ARENT PITTED AGAINST EACHOTHER BECAUSE THERE IS NO CHOICE RHERE IS NO LOVE TRIANGLE!! Just like how being gay isn’t a choice. And even though el’s an “option” in the sense that Mike could choose to stay in the closet, choose to try and act like he loves her, choose to be her boyfriend, it’s called a LOVE TRIANGLE, not a RELATIONSHIP triangle.

It’s about LOVE, it’s about Mike’s feelings, even if Mike and El stayed as boyfriend and girlfriend until they died and in this exact “love triangle” scenario they’re in now where Mike so with El but had feelings for will, there would still BE NO LOVE TRIANGLE because Mike CANNOT LOVE EL. ITS NOT A RELATIONSHIP TRIANGLE ITS NOT ABOUT WHO HES IN A RELATIONSHIP/CHOOSING TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH!! THE RELATIONSHIP TRIANGLE COULD EXIST!!! SURE!! BUT ITS CALLED A LOVE TRIANGLE BECAUSE ITS ABOUT HOW YOU FEEL AND WHO YOU LOVE AND MIKE CANNOT LOVE EL BECAUSE HES GAY!! EVEN THOUGH HE HAS TO CHOOSE WHAT RELATIONSHIP TO BE IN, HES NOT CHOOSING LOVE. RELATIONSHIP DOES NOT EQUAL LOVE!! MIKES CHOICE IS ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS NOT LOVE!! HIS LOVE IS NOT THE CHOICE!! Because if it was, if mike was anything other than gay and his love was a choice between Will and El, choosing betwene his love for both of them, like I said, it’s way more difficult narratively and more importantly, difficulty aside, because ST does not shy away from difficulty, does not align with the narrative as a whole, nor the arcs and underlying themes of each individual character, such as things like El’s arc regarding feeling unloveable.

The love triangle does not exist! There is no choice! I’ve seen people frame it as “the GA needs to realize that Will is a viable love triangle choice for Mike,” but I think that people may want to try looking at it with the lens that it isn’t true that Will is a viable love triangle choice for Mike, the GA are right in that weird regard, although not in the way they think they are. Because the love triangle does not exist because El is not a viable choice for Mike either. Will is not a viable choice for Mike!! Because there’s no choice!! If the love triangle was between Mike and two other men, then Will would be a viable choice. But it’s not. Will is not a viable choice because there’s no choice at all. Even if Mike didn’t love Will as a person in this current in-show love triangle scenario, which he does, there still would be no choice between them because the only option would be Will. So he’s technically not a viable choice in the love triangle because THERE IS NO CHOICE!! He’s a viable choice for mike’s love, sure, in the context of Will versus other men. But not a viable choice in the love triangle because THERE IS NO CHOICE THERE IS NOBODY EXCEPT WILL TO CHOOSE FROM WITHJN THE WILL EL MIKE LOVE TRIANGLE!! Will is not a viable choice and El is also not a viable choice because again, there’s no choice at all because Mike is gay.

Like cmon! The duffers LOVE flipping things on their head, and how would a love triangle be any different? The flip is that IT DOESNT EXIST!! The “choice” that’s inherent to a love triangle is not a choice at all! And I think that’s part of why they showed us the stancy jancy love triangle in s4, to show that Nancy DOES have to make a choice, unlike Mike, who is not making a choice because there is no choice to be made.

Anyway this is a ramble and I’m still refining my thoughts, but I’m gonna address it fully in the analysis.

[strangeswift]

WHAT ARE YOUR HEAD CANONS FOR THE PARTY AS ADULTS??? INTERESTED TO KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS.

Interested in MY thoughts??? Very flattered, genuinely.

Okay I'm gonna do college aged headcanons cuz they're fun and middle aged people bore me.

I think everyone will go to college, outside of Hawkins obviously, and I don't think any of them will return to live in Hawkins afterwards. But assuming Hawkins is still intact at this point, I think their parents would all live there still including Joyce and Hopper, so they'd all come back for holidays.

I'd like to think that they all go to college together, but realistically I think Mike and Will would go to a school with good art and creative writing programs, which wouldn't be where the others would end up.

Dustin would go to a school with a good Technology/Engineering program, where Suzie would also attend. I think Lucas would study something in STEM and Max probably a social science, maybe sociology. El would study a social science for sure, probably child psychology.

So I'll say that Dustin, Suzie, and Lucas would all end up at the same school. And Will, Mike, El, and Max all together at a different school.

Will and Mike would be roommates in college, as would El and Max, and Dustin and Lucas. Dustin and Lucas would come visit the others often and crash in their dorms, even if the school was far from them, they'd road trip. Suzie comes a few times but usually she's too busy because she works as a research assistant in a lab and is taking an insane course load.

Mike and Will are together, but they're only out to the party and their families. They're happy. They share a small dorm and they pushed their twin sized beds together, but there's a gap in between that Mike always complains about falling into. And when Will suggests, "Well you could just stay on your side of the bed," Mike is incredibly affronted that Will would even suggest such a thing. (I am a clingy Mike truther.)

Don't get mad at me guys, but although I do love the idea of Elumax (with Lucas and El platonic because El is a lesbian) I like the idea of Lumax and El finding another girlfriend more. I think El-he's-my-first-boyfriend Hopper would go on dates with lots of girls in college, trying to figure out what it is that she wants in a relationship. I think she'd unintentionally be a little bit of a heartbreaker. But eventually she'd find the right girl and they'll be super happy. Also while she's dating around, Max (bi icon) respectfully gives her opinions of the girls. Max and El respect women.

Lumax are long distance in college, but as I said Lucas visits often, and when he does he crashes in Max and El's dorm while Dustin crashes in Mike and Will's. Lucas also likes to hear about El's girlfriends so the three of them stay up and gossip like it's a sleepover. They taught Lucas how to braid hair.

Will and El hang out a lot, they both like to have time alone together. Mike always wants to tag along, and Will can never tell him no, but El can and she does. They do all hang out together frequently, but the sibling hangouts are sacred to El.

Mike and El are actually close now that they can be honest with each other. They love each other a lot and they're still physically affectionate, hugs, etc.

But when Will and El hang out alone, that leaves.... my favorite.... MIKE AND MAX BESTIES!!! Reluctantly at first, they start hanging out and end up really bonding. They talk about sexuality struggles, their tendency to push people away, etc. They still argue a lot and have a very sarcastic teasing relationship. They're hilarious to watch interact because their banter is never-ending and they're both very witty.

Lumax are completely, head over heels in love. They talk on the phone every night, and when Lucas comes to visit they spend every minute together and go on lots of movie dates. But as always, they aren't huge on PDA and they aren't as lovey dovey as say... Will and Mike. Or El and her girlfriend of the week. Or Dusty Bun and Suzie Poo.

Dustin and Suzie are gross. Sweet, but gross. PDA like crazy. Always PG, but it still makes Lucas roll his eyes. Though he really is happy for them. He just misses Max a lot of the time.

That is all I can think of right now. Well, that's a lie but I need to cut this off somewhere.

Thank you so so much for the ask!!!!

[gay-mike-truther]

"are you a byler rain kiss truther or a byler upside down kiss truther"

BOTH. hear me out.

it's season 5. mike has broken up with el. he's found out that will lied to him about the painting. he confronts him outside the cabin, in the rain. will starts getting defensive, mike starts getting upset.

"i don't get it! why would you lie to me!"

will doesn't know what to say. he didn't think this would happen.

"because..." he falters.

"friends don't lie, will!"

that hurts. will snaps back without thinking, "oh yeah, because you've been SO truthful mike!"

mike is taken aback. "what's that supposed to mean?"

"all you've done this past year is lie! to el, to everyone! to me!"

"that's- that's not true!"

"really? so why did you tell el you loved her when you didn't?"

"i-i-"

"you've been lying to everyone! you won't even talk to me!"

"because i-"

"why, mike? what did i do? the world is ending and we might all die and you can't even look at me!" will is on the verge of tears now. "just tell the truth!"

mike struggles for a moment. "i- i can't."

will's face crumples. "that's what i thought."

he turns and walks off the porch of the cabin, into the pouring rain. mike is seized with panic. he can't let will walk away this time. he can't let him go again.

"will, wait!"

will turns, and mike kisses him.

it's messy, and the two of them are soaked by the lashing rain. it lasts only a moment, and then the two of them are breaking apart.

there's shock etched across will's face. "mike-"

this time, it's mike who runs away.

now he is the one cycling through the pouring rain. he gets home and runs downstairs to the basement, collapsing in the blanket fort he has there, with pictures of the party. pictures of will.

"stupid." mike shakes his head, tears and raindrops rolling down his cheeks. "stupid, stupid, stupid."

(then the episode ends or something idk i'm not the duffer brothers)

they're going off on a mission. mike's been avoiding will for maybe a few days now. something dramatic happens, like maybe a gate opened at mike's house (do a big gasp like i just wrote something really epic and cool. there you go). anyway they end up in the upside down, just the two of them.

mike is the first to break the silence. "i'm sorry."

will swallows. "about what?"

"you know what."

"why-" will clears his throat. "why did you do it?"

mike wants to lie. he wants to say it was a mistake, an accident. he wants to pretend like it never happened at all.

but friends don't lie. and will is a lot more than just his friend.

"because i wanted to," he whispers.

he doesn't look at will. he's scared to see the disgust on his face, the hate in his eyes. he's terrified.

"mike." will's voice is soft. he doesn't sound like he hates him. "mike, look at me."

mike does.

will steps closer to him. he looks nervous, but there's something else in his expression too. hope.

"i wanted to as well," he breathes.

and he kisses him.

november 6th, 1983.

a garage light flickers.

[bylerspookie]

listen, I'm a gay Mike truther

but if they go the bi Mike route, I wouldn't mind at all, but if that's the case, I hope they play it out like this post:

actually, even the gay Mike route would be nice to unfold in this way- both of them feel guilty, they're in the same position, and then they finally communicate properly, and they're pleased to find out that they're not alone, and that maybe, if they don't feel anything for eachother, they're probably just not meant to be together

and maybe Eleven talks to him about Will and his painting, and there's a big realization moment for Mike, where he's like, "oh shit- I'm dumb" LMAOO

but that's one of my theories for the van scene

remember how oblivious he was?

and remember how Finn said that, "it would pay off" ?

well, the only way oblivious Mike would "pay off", now that I think of it, is if he wasn't actually oblivious and just too scared to come to terms with his feelings, or maybe his head was just running with thoughts about, "does this mean he likes me?" but he was just too scared to be wrong

but the thing is, Mike's character is literally set up as "totally oblivious" (according to Dustin) SINCE SEASON 1

so how would this pay off?

because as I said in this post:

Mike's expressions, movements, and even breathing are of someone who is understanding what Will is saying

how would a straight man, understand what a queer man is saying (but using the straight man's girlfriend as a cover) lmfao that makes no sense right?

but then again, Finn says Mike would be better off if he just opened his ears and listened

I think Mike has been too focused on himself being queer, and his internal struggles, that he hasn't even realized how obvious his friends struggles are

we see him in that last scene, before Will cries, he smiles (it looks fake for once) and nods, and then we see him look at the painting for like a full 2 minutes

just as Will said to Mike about El's letter, the painting isn't gonna magically change into the answer you're looking for, Mike

I think in this scene, despite Mike being an oblivious character, I think he was piecing things together (Mike's character is very good at that), and he was so focused on the millions of thoughts in his head that was he couldn't think straight and help his friend out, because he was genuinely having his own internal battle

what I would kill to see an unblurred version of his face when Will is crying, because we see him look directly at Will, like?

and then he looks back at the picture

he's thinking about something, clearly

because when Will says to Mike "El told me what to draw. She commissioned it, basically."

his smile drops

and listen, at this point, we know Mike doesn't love El

but it's still Will's painting, you'd think he would still be slightly happy?

but I think in this scene, he has a moment of realization, he remembered El's letter

or maybe he was like, "wait, why do I remember something else in El's letter?"

and he was just trying so hard to remember El's letter and peice together the full story

and maybe he did

maybe he didn't

but all I'm saying is, it looks like Mike is going through all emotions in the span of a few minutes

he's happy

he's neutral

he's confused (miketober flashbacks)

his breath hitches

he's happy again

he looks like he's in love

he's sad

he's confused and happy

he's trying to be happy?

I think this is what Finn meant when he said that scene was really hardest to film, because god, imagine how many different expressions he had to make? and how he had to act oblivious? and how the lighting had to be perfect? they said they used up a whole day to shoot just that one scene, like, hello???

anyway, but yeah, this is kinda messy and I'm kind've just rambling because like yeah but

lmao

[antisociallilbrat]

Okay so let's say for argument's sake Byler happens, or some variation of it does. We have yet to see Mike really 'question' his sexuality and I've seen theories on why this is but to put it plain in *my* opinion, he's very far in the closet and is doing what is 'expected' of him by dating girls. First thing out of the way: I am a Bi Mike truther, I will not argue about this- everyone is entitled to their own hcs.

So I've seen people say they want a scene with Will coming out to Joyce and yes I want that too but if they make Byler happen I want- no I need a scene with Mike and Karen.

Mike coming home- maybe after El has broken up with him for good- and having all these swirling feelings over the whole thing. Then when you throw Will into the mix Mike's kind of unsure of everything and he's frustrated and! He's mad about it but he doesn't have anyone to direct his anger at because it's not really anyone's fault but dammit! He's mad because he doesn't know how he's supposed to feel right now! Or what he does next!

Karen sees him stalking up to his room and can immediately sense something is wrong and when Mike yells at her that 'he's fine' and trying to lock her out I want her to get mad too. Mad that her kids can't see that she loves them. Mad at herself for never showing it right. Mad that she's got herself stuck in a shitty marriage. So she doesn't let Mike lock her out this time, she throws his door open and demands he talks to her because she loves him and nothing is ever going to change that. She will be here for him if he lets her.

And then Mike breaks. He tries to explain his feelings but he's not good at that but Karen knows, she understands her son is hurting. Look she may not say the right things and she may not completely understand what she knows Mike is trying to say, but she doesn't want to see him in pain anymore. She loves him too much.

This scene would be so beneficial in helping mend the Wheeler family, especially the disconnect between Mike and Karen. She was the one Mike ran to to hug when he thought Will was dead and I would think the whole Will thing wouldn't take her off guard, even if she doesn't get what 'gay' entials.

I think this conversation would absolutely wreck me as viewer and put me on the floor sobbing, thank you.

[demadogs]

Predictions on Will still being connected to Vecna will play out next season?

OOOOO!! i have a big prediction related to this that ive talked about before but i dont think enough people have appreciated how good it is. its not entirely how will is affected but how what happens to will will affect other characters.

so i dont think will is gonna be vecna’d the way max was. wills connected to him in a way no one else is so its gotta be bigger than last season. i think they might go back to the s2 super spy concept and have will be able to see or feel in some way what vecnas plan is. then vecna might realize what hes doing and something more similar to what happened to max will happen to him where he will be able to actually feel like hes in the same room as vecna and have a conversation with him.

i think vecna will threaten will here and say that he has to watch out and he will torture him when he least expects it and in ways that he wont see coming (obviously said no more spooky wording than that).

and THAT i think is what will lead to MIKE getting vecna’d. i think vecna’s method of torturing will is to torture mike.

mike has to be vecna’d. it just makes too much sense for it not to happen. max said it happens to people who have something thats haunting them. mike has insane internalized homophobia, way more than will i would argue, and i think he has so much guilt from the fact that hes still dating el even though he knows he does not and cannot actually love her romantically (theyd still be dating when hes vecna’d i am NOT a mlvn breaks up in the first episode truther).

i think the whole party and especially jonathan and joyce will be so concerned about will that no one will pay attention to the signs mike is showing. everyone will think wills at the most risk of danger so he’ll never be left alone, he’ll always be monitored and made sure by everyone that he’s safe but mike will be the one they need to look out for.

mike will be vecna’d the same way max was. nobody saw it coming they just suddenly realized mike wasnt responding and his eyes were all wrong. they all start to freak out but especially will. nancy is in denial. she says to will “no no why would it be mike youre the one we needed to look out for he said he was gonna torture you” and wills heart sinks and he realizes “i think this is how hes doing it”.

i wont go into detail on mikes vecna’d shebang here bc thats the answer to a different question but if anyone asks id be so down to talk more about that. i do have a post about mike but its his entire s5 arc and its embarrassingly long so if you just want me to talk about the vecna part i got you.

but yeah i think wills connection to vecna will directly cause MIKES encounter with vecna.

[trobeds]

hi! do you have any ronance + elmax headanons? <3

HELL YEAH!! ALSO YOU ARE AMAZING THANK YOU FOR THE RONANCE PROMPT IVE BEEN DYING TO RAMBLE ABOUT THEM OMG I LOVE YOU <3

ok so onto the hcs (yeaahh)

robin and max hang out and talk about their crushes a lot and robin ADORES having someone like girls in the same way she does. but straight boy solidarity is great, steve! (ik hes bi obviously it just hasnt clicked yet)

nancy is a journalist with insane instincts, so she was bound to pick up on elmax eventually

robins already out to nance and the party at this point so nancy just mentions it casually in conversation

"hey, do el and max like each other"

robin doesnt have a filter so she just blurts out "wait max told you??"

"...no. i guessed"

and thats how ronance teams up in trying to set elmax up. as if theyre so amazing at confessing to their crushes *hint hint*

ronance = maxs moms = encouraging max to ask el to be her gf near constantly <3

its so silly bcs they dont realize theyre making eyes at each other instead of keeping tabs on elmax and making sure everything is going according to plan

max knows. she knows everything 100% and she keeps thwarting their plans like the self sabotaging bitch she is (rip)

el asks her out first.

she goes to robs bcs she knows robin likes girls and is just like her <3 and they come up with a plan for el to ask max out

she does and their first date is a picnic fuck you i will never give up the elmax/elumax picnic first date agenda

nancy helps el pick out something cute to wear (disclaimer: el is fucking adorable in everything she wears. its all cute.)

they laze around and el appears in her mind so max can see her when she kisses her for the first time <3

max and el are super bouncy and happy next time they talk to ronance and robin and nancy clap for them and get just as excited, if not more

ronance with that sense of "you only got your shit together because of us" high-fiving quote unquote, "subtly"

the roles reverse. el and max are the matchmakers now (+ steve bcs hes ronance truther #1 in my mind)

el using her powers to make them gravitate towards each other and them giving her death glares that say "what are u doing stop trying to set us up its obviously unrequited" and el just stares back like "girl wtf are you talking about??" while max gives them thumbs up and nods encouragingly while both robin and nancy think theyre being set up for rejection.

once nancy composes herself she power walks her ass over to robins house to tell her that el and max are trying to set them up

robin "what? no theyre not haha why would they do that its not like we like each other amiright? am. i. right." buckley and nancy "yeah ofc totally not. right. youre right." wheeler being kind of oblivious.

they get together when robin is just rambling about this book she read one day and she wont shut up and theyre sitting close enough that their sides are pressed together and their knees are in a perpetual state of bumping into each other and shes just so adorable and pretty and hot and nancy just cant resist

she grabs her face and kisses her

it takes a hot minute before she pulls away in mortification and robin starts talking. again.

"that was mind-blowing but if that was an experiment we can just forget about this. um. if it wasnt. id be surprised but...not opposed. at all. but thats not possible so anyways, my book was so-" ohmygodohmygodohmygodholyshitohmygodwhatthefuckohmygod

theyre girlfriends pretty soon after

elmax commends them on *finally* getting their shit together

final verdict: elmax and ronance are in love

anyways, thank you sm for the ask!! i really enjoyed answering it ily and take care of yourself <3 <3 <3

[pinkeoni]

i have will coming out headcanons lets go

Jonathan-

I think at some point on the two day car ride home, Jonathan and Will would have found a private spot during a rest stop. That is the first time Will said “I’m gay” out loud, even to himself. Jonathan smiles super big and tells him how awesome it is and how proud he is of him. Will at this point is just a blubbering mess.

Joyce-

I think this coming out would be really quiet and calm but also raw and emotional. I also have this theory that Joyce already knows Will is gay, but she’s giving him space to allow him to come to her first. I think maybe he’s in his room, and he tells her very quietly, almost as a whisper, and she smiles so sweetly in that way mothers do and says “I know.” And now once again Will is just crying but its happy tears of relief.

El-

I think I saw someone make a post similar to this but I forgot who (forgive me) but it was basically suggesting that El could go inside of Will’s mind in order to find Vecna or something along those lines, and she would see EVERYTHING, crazy together, the van stuff, maybe even Will coming out to Jonathan. So I think maybe after she is out of his mind, Will comes up to her and says “Hey, I would understand if you saw something that made you feel differently about me, or made you not want to be my sister-“ and then she grabs his face and tells him that he is her brother, and that she is so happy that out of everyone in the world to be her brother, it’s him. Then he grabs her face and tells her how happy he is that she is his sister. Now they are both crying.

Dustin and Lucas-

Will confesses to them that he likes Mike and the two of them grill him not for being gay but for having a crush on Mike. Something like- “You like him? The guy who used to pick his nose and wipe his boogers on his basement couch? You have terrible taste be serious.” They all start laughing and as Will is laughing he sheds some relieved and happy tears.

Robin and Steve-

Will doesn’t necessarily come out to Robin, but rather she hears about how Will has been called gay slurs his whole life and puts the pieces together, so she comes to him and talks to him about how they are similar, and how she’s always there if he needs someone to talk to. One day Will feels especially heartbroken about Mike, so he runs all the way to Family Video with tears in his eyes. Robin takes him into the breakroom and brings him some movie candy to make him feel better. Steve comes in asking what the matter is, and Robin tells him its heartbreak. Steve can instantly relate, telling him about how Nancy has broken his heart multiple times. He then says “I didn’t even know you liked anyone, who is it?” Robin tells Will that its okay to tell Steve, to which Will then responds with “It’s the other Wheeler sibling.” To which Steve replies “Holly? 🤨” Robin then gives Steve a side eye and you can hear the cogs turn in his brain until finally “OOOOHHH you mean that Wheeler sibling.” (bonus: after this steve becomes the biggest mike wheeler is gay/bi truther in a similar way he was with vickie)

[bowiebond]

Okay this was more of a "hey wouldnt it be funny if” thought because there is no way this can fit in a canon timeline, but imagine Steve having three supernatural/Upside Down affected, superpowered boyfriends that love him and protect him

1. Post-Flayed!Billy: regains control outside of the hive mind but retains his black veins and badass super strength (he is the biggest and physically strongest of the bfs), probably also his ability to sense those like El when she tries to remote view him or sense MF shenanigans like Will

2. Vampire!Eddie: came back from the dead post season 4; paler skinned and red eyes, cute sharp fangs and claws, pointy ears, and maybe he folded bat wings too?? Depends on how freaky he could be lol I think he has a little enhanced vampire strength and speed too; the fastest/most agile of the bfs

3. Superpowered!Jonathan: El got powers, I’m a “Will Byers has powers” truther who thinks he was born with them, let's apply that to Jonathan too lol; whatever powers are up to you, like one could go telekinesis like Henry, El, and the test subjects, or something else like telepathy, force fields etc; the most ‘magicky’ bf I guess haha

Imagine the carnage if some or all end up fighting each other over something small and Steve gets annoyed, bc his freaky bfs have the abilities to absolutely level Hawkins together if they wanted to but instead they’re fighting over who gets to cuddle with him that day

(But also imagine when someone or something threatens Steve and that’s when they all kick into gear together to protect their bb)

I never thought of superpowered Jonathan omg, I love that so much??? Also love the idea of them fighting over Steve’s attention and time because all three of them are actually very hotheaded. Billy is the most obvious, but Jonathan is a ball of rage if you push his buttons and Eddie screams all the time and definitely knows how to throw a good right hook and run cause of his prison father ✨

So Billy having strength, Eddie being agile and Jonathan being the shield? You got a top class party according to Eddie, and Steve is their heart of gold paladin who is willing to get his face smashed in for his boyfriends but usually gets saved from that fate 😂

The shenanigans though, god. Billy tinging black instead “green” when he’s jealous and Jonathan constantly rolling his eyes at the other two because they’re the most argumentative. They’re a power team against him thought because Jonathan is as sneaky as a snake when it comes to getting on Steve’s good side while Eddie and Billy shout over something stupid. All three of them love metal and rock and Steve just has to suffer with their tastes, least he be hissed at by Eddie every time he tries to turn the player off.

Billy knows how to push Jonathan’s buttons and it usually ends with him stuck to the ceiling by one of his dome shields until Steve finds him and asks Jonathan to let him down, saying it’s too early for this shit. Jonathan usually complies once he wrangles out a half-hearted apology from the blond.

The idea of Eddie with pointy ears and little fangs ahhh; his big old wings he keeps tucked against his back <3 they almost brush his feet because they’re thin and need the girth to make up for his weight, but he uses them as blankets during movie night more often than not. Perfect cuddle tactic because Eddie loves cuddling, Steve centric or not

Also, I think Eddie refuses to feed off any boyfriend except Steve because Jonathan and Billy taste awful. Billy more so. His blood is essentially dead and the only thing keeping him alive is Billy’s own sheer willpower (that’s a lie, they have no idea how he’s standing, but they have theories and jokes). Jonathan just tastes weird, probably because all the chemicals in his blood are just inherently different due to his body rewiring to handle his power. Will and El are similar in that regard, but Eddie isn’t tempted to snack on them unlike he’s boyfriends. So Steve is his go to nibble, but it’s fine because Steve loves neck kisses and basically counts it as the same just a lot more intense ✨

I love the thought of anyone fucking with Steve, whether it’s government or just customers at work, and having his own literal gang of monster boyfriends to scare people off. Just a glare is enough for regular people, but government gets the hint when Eddie flies one of them up a little too high and cackles, threatening to drop them while Jonathan barely breaks a sweat shielding off bullets, Billy’s veins coloring like ink and grinning like an absolute maniac before he slams someone into the floor. Steve is just there trying not to be arrest, screaming at them to quit it and nothing really changing because all three of them are overtly protective and enjoying it a little too much. Jonathan’s the only one who can chill out on command, even if he grumbles, which often leads to him having to bring the other two back to their morals.

They work well together as a polycule and are very happy with their regular human boyfriend who works a boring 9-5 and spends the rest of his time giving them all his attention <3

[mixsethaddams]

So... *rubs my grubby little hands together*

Who's been Vecna's spy in Hawkins all along?

No, it's not Will. We know what happens to him when Vecna is actively using him and it's too hard to ignore.

We also know from seeing Billy being flayed that Vecna is very clever to not go too far off the beaten track when it comes to how his hosts will act. Billy's hair got a bit neater, his clothes got a bit tidier, but otherwise he was just the same dude.

It's safe to assume that any change in the OG party members would have been spotted almost immediately by El. So Lucas and Dustin are, in my mind, out of the running. Lucas went looking for Will by himself in s1 after he fought with the others and was obviously invested in getting his friend back. Dustin, by his own observation, would have set off all the magnets and compasses that he carries around. Erica is out too, because of her willingness to get hands on is s3 & s4 to foil plans. Max isn't an option either because aside from the obvious reason of Vecna trying to kill her, she was too close to Billy. This is another way we can discount most of the main party; she would notice just as soon as El would.

I also personally believe the main grown ups of Hopper, Joyce, and Murray to be out of the running here too. Joyce very much fucked with Vecna's plans in s1 by refusing to believe any of the lies she was fed about Will and Hopper has had no real character changes through the seasons to warrant suspicion. Murray is just that little bit far enough outside of the main Hawkins orbit for Vecna to think of him as an option, and doesn't have enough allies in the town early on for him to be considered useful enough. Nancy and Jonathon I'm also discounting because of Jon's proximity to Will, and Nancy's willingness to shoot at anything larger than a golden retriever.

So now. Let's get down to brass tacks. Who is the spy?

Mike is an obvious option for a couple of reasons. When Will was still possessed, Mike was the one that broke him out of it and it was Will's encouragement that helped Mike talk El through her fight with Vecna. Is seeing and hearing each other so loudly through the fog more of a psychic bond than a spiritual one? As much as I am a Byler truther at heart, something tells me that Blue Meets Yellow In The West might be a Mike Vs Will showdown, and not a joining of forces. Mike has also had some significant changes happen. El noticed straight away when he started signing things 'From Mike' instead of 'Love Mike'. He stopped calling Will when they moved to California. He didn't rush to El's side when the other girl's were bullying her, he just looked around, bemused. Not only is this wildly removed from the person we got to know in s1 and s2, but it's so different to someone that his best friend describes as 'The Heart' of them all. Will felt something off about Mike too, when he got to California. Was that sense of Vecna being around just his presence in the Upside Down, or his psychic link to Mike?

Second up, we have Robin. Robin appeared with very little backstory and even Rebel Robin leaves a lot of guesswork and blank spaces. She just happens to speak Russian? As well as how many other languages? Interesting. Did Vecna think that his spy should be able to communicate with the people who were aware of his monsters? Robin also sustained very little damage in the Russian tunnels. She was held captive just like Steve but came out basically untouched. Was this the enemy recognising an ally? Or was it Vecna protecting his asset?

And Robin, of course, leads us to Steve. Oh Steve, beautiful Steve. Let's talk about Steve. Let's talk about Steve, who we know nothing about, who's family we have never met, who went through the biggest arc of all by inserting himself right in with the main group and earning their trust. Let's talk about the jock who can't win a fight until he's up against a literal soldier because maybe he knows how this solider was trained. Let's talk about all-of-a-sudden-has-blonde-highlights-wears-cherry-lipgloss-forgot-how-to-get-a-girlfriend-but-knows-how-to-connect-with-smaller-kids Steve. Let's talk about Steve who throws parties in his big house and invites everyone so he can see them all at the same time and make sure everyone knows who he is.

And isn't it just wild that our boy Steve got tortured so bad by those Russians but it was all superficial damage? No broken bones, no broken nose, hell, he doesn't even have a scar. What a coincidence that they mixed up the truth serum too, huh?

Do his parents really not come home of their own accord? Or do they just get this feeling that maybe they should extend their trip? Steve saw Billy up close and didn't even try to hold on to his King crown. Vecna saw Billy up close and felt bolder, so he let himself slip more into Steve's aesthetic. He added the hair, the lipgloss, lost the swagger, because he'd found Billy and he thought he was so close to winning. He got lazy.

Steve watches everyone closely. Steve knows everyone will tell him their secrets. Steve knows how to rip a demobat apart despite never seeing one before and knowing nothing about their weakspots, or that their blood isn't poisonous if it gets into his mouth.

Steve has been Vecna's spy all along. And in s5, Steve will sacrifice himself for his friends. Eddie was never Kas. It's always been Steve.

[emblazons]

hELLO do you have any fun specific hopes/theories/headcanons for st5?

HELLO STRANGER 😂

Honestly I am not like super headcanon forward as a watcher because I think I have expectations trust issues from other television and therefore stick to what I can see on screen before speculating, BUT!

Headcanons + some things I would love to see explored (that aren’t just aggressive amounts of pining byler)?

The whole “Will is suppressed in his queerness being attached to soteria/suppression of powers” is like. 11/10 concept imo. It goes along with horror history so well (shout out @pinkeoni for that analysis) and plays so well into the whole relating to “Alan Turing” bit that we were introduced to start of S4, given his history as a gay man.

re, the last point: the contrast in queerness between Mike and Will being explored as someone who shows more blatant attraction to men but struggles to accept it as an identity versus someone who accepts their identity while suppressing their attraction (by outside forces or not) is also a dynamic I think would be cool to explore. I am not an ace Will truther at all but. I do think he shies away from his own sexuality a lot in a way they don’t do with Mike.

I really want “samfro caught on mount doom together while the rest of the fellowship fights an army” byler vibes—something about El and Lucas as Aragorn & Legolas with Dustin (Gimli) and Erica (Merry/Pippin) while Will struggles with feeling alone carrying the heavy burden of a connection to Vecna? Some “I can’t carry it for you, but I can carry you” heroism from Mike? El getting a moment to reunite with Max (Arwen) at the hand of Lucas, just like in Return of the King? Fucking mint lmao

I need scenes of Max in whatever place she’s still alive in like I need oxygen. Working from “the inside” to do exposition on Henry + the UD while she’s in a coma while the party sorts through it in Hawkins feels like such a phenomenal writing opportunity I’ll be desperately sad if they don’t explore it. I hope they include some elements of like. The duality of presence a la The Talisman in that given Lucas was reading it to her in the hospital? But 🤷🏽‍♀️

GIVE ME TIME FKERY OR GIVE ME DEATH. I know it’s pretty much guaranteed at this point but. I need Mr. Clarke back stat, with some convoluted ass theory explained on a paper plate again. I need the most elaborate UD reality just, absolutely borderline nonsensical lore for like a full episode so I can watch this series back again and see it from SECOND ONE (or minute 8:15) and giggle like a schoolgirl knowing the duffers really are smart/the haters were wrong.

I want more Wheelers! I know Nancy is central to the supernatural given she was the only other one pulled in by Vecna and not killed—just sent as a messenger—but. I have so many Wheeler and Creel thoughts at this point I don’t know where to start, but. They are the PERFECT family for exploring picture-perfection against horror themes (just like the Creels) and I want it. Like “don’t care how, I want it now” level focus on them, along with their Byers.

I said it before but: an exploration of motherhood as a theme makes so much sense to me, and it seems to be important to The Duffers too, so. I want it.

Kinda want RoVickie as the couple who introduces the idea of the supernatural + queerness v Hawkins element at the start of the season, and for byler to be the ones who “end it.” I think that would be a fascinating way to parallel them more, though…I haven’t much thought this through.

If they don’t make Finn Wolfhard sob his little eyes out this season I’m going to feel betrayed. I need him like. Noah level pressed at least once next season, for the culture (Finn said he wanted to do more dramas. Let him defeat the bad actor allegations here so they let him LMAOOOO)

That’s all I can think of for now! I’m sure there are more, but. Those were the firsts that came to mind haha.

Thanks for the ask!

[aemiron-main]

i think what's so funny about the bi Mike narrative is that you flat out have to ignore canon scenes. "boys only"? doesn't mean anything, only Will's "a day free of girls" means something. Mike and El's severe family coding going back all the way to s1 where they explicitly discuss being cousins and siblings? doesn't mean anything either, that's just there for fun, their romance should be taken completely serious and not be uncomfortable at all. Mike seemingly realizing he doesn't want to be with El/wants to be with Will when she kisses him in s3? coincidence, it's not because he realizes he doesn't like El, it just happens to happen while a girl is kissing him. Mike resorting to a disprovable lie about love at first sight during his monologue instead of stating the real moment he realized he liked her? completely random🤭

if your interpretation of canon is that solid then why are you avoiding certain scenes? and the few people i've seen tackle them always need to go on their tangent of how "it's not like that" or you're "reading too much into it". so obviously El saying she could be Mike's sister doesn't mean anything and is just random filler dialogue, it's not supposed to make you feel any particular way. Mike having a similar girls excluding line to Will is only gaycoding for Will, Mike is just being silly and goofy duh, it's not that serious, and so on

it's fine to have whatever hc or interpretation but it's weird to me when ppl straight up say it's just as valid as the interpretation that's actually applicable to all of the show. the narrative that there is a good argument for bi Mike to be made and that ppl just don't post it anymore because the gay Mike truthers (who only hang out on their blogs) are so mean is hilarious when i know i've seen every bi Mike take last year and wasn't convinced by any of them. if there is such a good argument for bi Mike then why don't i see more posts? bc despite the current victim complex, gay Mike was the original pariah in the fandom until people had the guts to start posting analysis. the fact that half the people on here now subscribe to gay Mike despite that interpretation only not getting you screamed at since a few months ago does say a lot about how convincing both interpretations are. because just maybe, the fact that there's more gay Mike believers than bi Mike believers (don't even know if that's accurate i don't know the tag anymore, but it's what the bi interpretators are saying) is because people see it as more plausible, and not bc they haven't had the pleasure to see a bi Mike post yet

seriously, just your gay Mike takes alone go way back and were pretty unusual at the time. and it speaks volumes to me that most serious anaylzers and theorizers subscribe to gay Mike exclusively, while the blogs that post more for fun and provide regular character and ship content and interact more with the tag and "community" on here like bi Mike. it's almost like... bi Mike is more fun as a hc but narratively inferior to gay Mike, which is why all the serious show analyzers are so adamant and passionate about it

ANON YOU WENT OFF WITH THIS!!!!!!!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 ABSOLUTE FACTS 10000000% REAL LIKE I HAVE NO NOTES IM JUST CLAPPING AND CHEERING AND NODDING MY HEAD WHILE I TYPE THIS!!!!!!!! That’s SO true about how the more serious analysis blogs tend to be gay mike truthers whereas the more for fun/posting solely hc stuff blogs tend to veer towards bi mike. And with that said, I think there’s also an element of that dynamic that’s tied to how that solely fic/hc section of byler tumblr tends to get fairly weird about The Actual Show sometimes (such as a bunch of them being appalled that people would bother to try and analyze henry) & try to stay in this weird “all headcanons are textually valid” space (even though thats not possible) because that whole group is so eager to jump at the throats of anyone who makes a minor misstep. Like this does NOT go for *everyone* who is just having fun/posting ship stuff, many of those folks r wonderful, im talking abt a particular group of popular/vocal folks in that circle, and there’s definitely a dynamic at play of “smh someone CRITICIZED another TAKE from SOMEONE ELSE, they are SOOOO rude smhhhhh everything is canon and valid” which makes people not want to step out of line/not want to have actual firm opinions on things.

But god uh my little tangent aside, this is so real and well-put, anon. Like you said, if there’s so much evidence for bi mike, then why arent people posting it instead of posting posts whining about how somebody said that there’s no evidence for bi mike? Like. Post your evidence then. Do it. I still laugh about one big prominent bi mike blog that posted awhile back about how they COULD disprove all the gay mike analysis but they WONT. and it’s like. girl. we know that you won’t because you CAN’T. If you could, you WOULD. And oh my god people acting like the familial parallels are just random filler dialogue makes me INSANE and what makes me more insane is when people (specifically the fucking idiots on twitter) act like pointing out the obvious mileven familial parallels is weird on MY part. As if IM THE ONE THAT PUT THEM THERE?? AS IF IM CONDONING INCEST?? LIKE GO TALK TO THE DUFFERS THEY PUT THEN IN THERE NOT ME!!!

And god yeah you just. You said it ALL, anon, like this is perfect, like people can have hcs or whatever i dont care but dont act like theyre equally textually supported. Because theyre not. And pointing out what is/isnt canon in the show isn’t biphobia, as much as God’s Whiniest Soldiers would like to believe it is. Gay mike ws absolutely the pariah before, and it’s SO funny to see bi mike truthers acting like anyone who disagrees with them is a Big Bad Mean Person who is Exploding Bi Mike Truthers With A Biphobia Laser. I have asked 163748596969696 times for someone to give me bi mike evidence that doesn’t heavily rely on outright ignoring the existence of other scenes in the show. And nobody’s been able to do it. Because mike is gay & the show is written with gay mike in mind. And god yeah the whole me getting screamed at over it thing is so funny in retrospect because people were literally mad at me for “disturbing the peace” as if this is fucking hobbiton and i’m gandalf after dragging bilbo baggins off to the lonely mountain & being labelled a disturber of the peace for it. like oh nooo ive got my gay little hands all over your peace. So what. Block me. Kill me if you can. Just do SOMETHING other that whining in my inbox like youre a 50 year old home owners association leader who got a noise complaint because i sneezed too loudly. (and when i say you, i dont mean You, anon, i mean the collective whining bi mike group who haunts my inbox).

It makes me insane. Every day. To see people willfully ignoring evidence that disagrees with them & trying to shoehorn evidence into working just for them to bring out the flimsiest analysis youve ever seen in your life & have a fucking fit when people point out that it’s flimsy. Again, anon, you said it ALL.