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dippedanddripped · 5 years

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Kaleidoscopic London-based menswear labelAhluwalia Studio wants consumers and fashion industry leaders to rethink the way they purchase and discard clothing. Founder Priya Ahluwalia has a point — with nearly three-fifths of all fashion ending up in incinerators or landfills within a year of production, our unsustainable consumption patterns are in desperate need of disruption. Thankfully, consumers are increasingly demanding that brands act more responsibly, and Ahluwalia is leading the charge, one upcycled garment at a time.

Mass consumerism has reached an all-time high. Between 2000 and 2014, global clothing production doubled, with the number of items purchased each year increasing by 60 percent according to a report by management consultancy McKinsey & Company. Fashion has become disposable and a rise in consumer spending, clothing becoming more affordable, and operations being more efficient are all to blame.

There’s an ugly truth in the fashion industry: consumers discard clothing after just seven or eight wears. Fast fashion companies in particular are taking advantage of that fact by churning out up to 25 collections per year. Luxury houses, too, have upped their production cycles as lead times have shortened.

But change is afoot. While excessive consumption is an ongoing cultural issue and consumers remain largely disconnected from the negative effects their buying habits have on the environment, a new generation of shoppers is increasingly urging companies to be more transparent about who makes their clothing and how it is made.

Brands wanting to connect with Gen Z and millennials need to align themselves with the values of their clientele and find sustainable, even circular, solutions to reduce their carbon footprint across the supply chain. The most successful companies of the future will be driven by purpose, not just growing profit margins.

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Smaller brands might not have the same scale of impact as multi-billion-dollar businesses, but they can certainly set the right example for generations to come. Among the flock of fashion startups putting sustainability at their core — without making it the centerpiece of their brand marketing — is Ahluwalia Studio, founded by Priya Ahluwalia, winner of the H&M Design Award 2019.

Born in the UK to Indian and Nigerian parents, Ahluwalia had just one goal growing up in Southwest London. “I’ve wanted to do fashion for as long as I can remember,” she recalls. “I’ve always been very academic, getting straight As, so my parents were hoping I would become a doctor or something. My mom told me that if I was going to get into fashion, I had to be the best at it and work my ass off.”

Obtaining her BA at the University for the Creative Arts in Epsom, she did a stint at IVY PARK — the activewear brand co-founded by Beyoncé — where she was among the first six employees. “Within six weeks, there were 30 of us,” says Ahluwalia, who within a year had moved to Wales Bonner, where she learned the importance of protecting your brand identity.

“Grace [Wales Bonner] really showed me how amazing it is to develop a world for your clothes to live in,” Ahluwalia explains. “What’s so good about her is that you could spot a Wales Bonner man walking down the street even if he wasn’t in her clothes.”

After a year, Ahluwalia enrolled in the University of Westminster’s prestigious MA Menswear course. The school’s alumni include Vivienne Westwood, Christopher Bailey, and Coach’s Stuart Vevers. Course tutors regularly challenged Ahluwalia and her peers to come up with inventive ways to tackle fashion’s sustainability conundrum.

She was confronted with big piles of surplus garments during a visit to her father in Lagos, Nigeria. A later trip to Panipat, India — known as the global recycling capital of secondhand clothing — with her grandmother added to her revulsion at the industry’s excessive waste.

“It was mad,” she says. “Bear in mind that one of the [recycling] companies I visited said they were only at 30 percent capacity and that was just one of 500 companies in Panipat.” Ahluwalia documented her journeys in a photo-book titled Sweet Lassi. “This factory in particular recycles old clothing into new yarn and relief blankets. If it wasn’t for places like this, it would be even more horrendous.”

As well as inspiring the book, her experiences became the main point of reference for Ahluwalia’s Spring/Summer 2019 graduate collection. Her work includes patchwork trench coats, oversized denim jackets, and vintage football jerseys, an homage to the designer’s love of the sport that includes beading developed with Indian women’s union SEWA Delhi, which supports artisans and textile workers.

All items were produced using secondhand clothing donated to Ahluwalia or found in charity shops. It’s her way of contributing to a new, socially responsible fashion ecosystem that is as environmentally conscious as it is business-driven. We spoke to Ahluwalia to get her thoughts on how fashion can change and what inspires her work.

When did you start thinking about sustainable fashion?

I’m Indian and Nigerian, so it’s already in my DNA to not be wasteful — ask anyone from those cultures. You use every last bit of everything.

[However], it was during a project in my first year at Westminster. We got an online design project about working internationally. The brief was about the world in 2043 and it stated the world was almost in a post-apocalyptic state. It made me really think about how I would design if the world’s resources were depleted and certain trades were being wiped out. It made me think about using waste and working with communities and their traditional local textile trades.

In a micro-scale, you already see it happening in some places. But it’s not booming like it could be because with globalization you can get everything cheaper somewhere else.

What made you go to the University of Westminster? What did you learn there?

I sort of knew that in fashion design you always did better if you had done a masters, and me living in London with my mom put me in a position where I didn’t have to pay for loads of outgoings, so I took the chance while I had the opportunity.

My classmates were great. It was a very international course — people from New Zealand, Australia, China, Hong Kong, Denmark, Ireland, everywhere. We really bonded and learned from each other. The teachers were great as well. We had Simon Foxton, Charles Jeffrey, Eugene Reeder from Neil Barrett.

Loads of people who finish the BA go on to work for [companies like] Louis Vuitton, Dior, and KENZO. It’s a really good school to teach you to actually work, as well as being concept-led.

What do you think is the biggest threat currently facing the fashion industry?

It’s people’s insatiable need for something new all the time. Everyone’s always looking for the next thing instead of enjoying the current thing. This means things get thrown away and people’s work gets copied.

The speed is what’s bad in a lot of ways. You can work your ass off for a collection and then six weeks later it’s in ZARA. That’s not good for anyone or for the planet. It creates a culture where people think they can’t wear something again. That needs to slow down and change.

Yet things are so expensive because of the wholesale model. You pay for your fabrics, that goes times two, then that goes times 2.8 when it goes through the stores. The price goes up so high. And then I know people ask why things are so expensive, but if everyone’s paid fairly along the way and you’re getting good materials, it does end up like that.

Are consumers or the companies producing fashion driving that speed? And who’s ultimately responsible?

I think everyone is responsible on some level. Big fashion businesses are responsible for the constant advertising and slashing of prices, which encourage people to buy things they never even thought they wanted. For example, Black Friday sales get people buying three pairs of trainers just because they can. What they’ve done marketing-wise is something to be admired, but the fallout isn’t so great and the big companies need to be on the right side of history.

I also think consumers are responsible because I know it’s easy to turn a blind eye, but if you do that, you’re culpable. When someone buys something for £5, you must not have thought about how the fabric got spun, cut and dyed, and who designed it, who sewed it, and who shipped it, all for £5. It’s easy to get caught up in buying a bargain because it feels good, rather than thinking about the implications of the purchase.

[Today], if you don’t have something to wear, you can get it on the same day. That’s absolutely mad. If you want something that’s so easy to get, you don’t even think about it. The gratification is so fast. It’s easy not to think about people as people when they’re far away, but being fair to people is something the fashion industry could do with.

Sixty-six percent of consumers are willing to spend more on brands that are sustainable, but then they don’t shop this way. The deciding factors are still price and product availability. What is driving this gap?

I do agree that the accessibility of sustainability isn’t good. I know that I’m working on a collection that’s made responsibly and I’m using waste, but it can be off-putting to people because sustainability doesn’t have a good rep aesthetically and it means different things to different people.

From a designer’s point of view, it’s costly to produce products with an aim to be sustainable. The fabrics, components, and production methods cost more, and all of this needs to be passed on to the consumer through prices. I think the expensive price tag can put people off. But such spending should be thought about deeply and seen as an investment.

Luxury fashion brands are now speeding up their delivery cycles and increasingly adopting the drop system popularized by streetwear brands and fast fashion. How sustainable is that?

It seems the opposite. It’s extremely expensive fast fashion. A part of the allure of luxury is the time put into it — you look forward to it.

My friends and I call it “image gang.” Everyone wants to be part of the image gang today. You want to go somewhere to be seen in something. That’s what it’s like with labels and logomania. That kind of stuff can make people buy stuff just for the picture, and then they don’t really care after that. Even though I hate the resell market, at least luxury can be resold, but it’s turning instant gratification with certain brands and it’s turning too fast in a very expensive way.

The press and consumers often like to put labels on young designers. How have you experienced that?

I feel like the word sustainability has been thrust upon me, rather than me saying it. Which is fine, but I feel that if you would be really sustainable, you wouldn’t do anything: just sit in your house, do nothing, grow vegetables, and that’s it. All I can say is that I’m trying my best to work positively and not make my impact on the planet horrendous.

In the past, societal values and company values didn’t mix. Now businesses are forced to take a stance on social and environmental issues or risk losing credibility among the younger demographic.

I definitely think fashion will become more democratic this way. People’s voices will be heard more because they’ve now got a platform to say it. Now if you want to cause a stir, you can do that on the internet. I hope consumers become more enlightened.

But not everyone’s the same. For example, if you look at what happened with Brexit [in the UK], we live in a London bubble and can sometimes think that everyone thinks like this, but do they? So, in comparison, I do hope this drive for sustainability is happening around the country, but I haven’t gone and asked someone in Liverpool or Rochdale. I can’t speak for everyone, but I hope it tremors out and it’s a slow revolution.

When it comes to the big companies, I do believe they’re doing great things. I think [Balenciaga’s] World Food Programme initiative is a great idea and it brings millennials who are concerned about certain things into this other stuff. I do wonder if they’re still overproducing, which is the big problem.

Overproducing has never made sense to me. Surely brands would want to create a limited supply, as that’s what drives scarcity and gives a brand its allure.

Exactly. That would make it more luxurious and things wouldn’t have to go on sale. If you can create a brand that does that, you’ve arguably won. I just don’t get it. If it’s all going on sale, surely it doesn’t make sense to have so much stock.

I feel like the wholesale model might become redundant. In a way, wholesale is good because you sell product to a store so you don’t have stock sitting there. But that’s what really drives up the pricing and stores end up buying too much. But then if I would sell it [directly], I could produce too much. Unless you sell it made-to-order, but you can’t scale that business.

So how do you grow a business that remains appealing to consumers without overproducing?

I source my materials from different places. Most of it’s in the UK and some of it I got in India when I was there. Each piece is unique. Every pair of trousers that gets ordered will be made with the same lines and shapes, but the patches might be different. So if I can’t find enough of a certain fabric, it might be a different fabric or shade. Each piece will be different than anyone else’s — it will be unique to you. Logistically, it’s hard work, but the H&M Prize will really help me with that.

The production is time-consuming, because when someone invests in a made-to-order piece, it’s the only one in the world like it, so I’ll cut the materials only for them and it will make someone keep it forever. That’s something I want to look at as well. I like stories around stuff, and if you can make someone sentimental about something, they’re less likely to throw it away.

When you visited your father in Lagos in 2017, and later went to Panipat, you saw the amount of waste the fashion industry produces. The images you took during these trips became the subject of your book Sweet Lassi. Tell me what you saw.

My dad moved to Nigeria about 10 years ago, so I went to see him with my Jamaican stepdad. I’ve always seen the waste when I travelled, but at the time of this trip I was in the middle of my masters, so I might have had a critical eye.

The traders there are so fashionable. They walked through traffic jams impeccably dressed, but they were wearing weird stuff like community “mud run” T-shirts and I didn’t get where the hell they were getting this. They said there’s this market for secondhand clothing, so I went there.

That’s when I found out that secondhand clothing gets sold and it doesn’t get given. I don’t know what’s worse, as it means the local textile industry suffers. In Lagos and in India there are these traditions of going to your local tailor, but because of this resale, the clothes end up getting dumped and people buy it because it’s cheaper than going to your local tailor.

India has banned the import of resale because it destroys the local industry. So before it crosses the border, it has to be slashed, twisted, or warped in some way. I started photographing it.

To what extent did these trips inspire your debut graduate collection?

In a way, the collection was a regurgitation of everything I’m interested in. When I was in my BA, everyone would put me in a sportswear bracket. But it doesn’t have to be just sportswear, it can be more of a streetwear thing. For the collection, I was thinking about how things can travel around the world and this idea of globalized dressing, while using traditional textile techniques.

It was about looking at what people in these countries were wearing. I saw little kids playing football wearing massive T-shirts like dresses because when secondhand clothing goes to these countries, they’re often too big, as people in the US, UK, and Canada are bigger than them.

So I started playing around with changing the sizes of stuff, making things bigger by putting fabrics from sports jackets in between denim. You would see people in Lagos figuring out ways to change the size of their clothes in interesting ways, as well as customize it.

In both [Nigeria and India], people move very fast. People are always hustling for something and I like that — being in charge of who you are, more than here. People here are more on a rat race from nine to five. I wanted to use that spirit for my graduate collection.

Will that same ethos be the foundation for your Fall/Winter 2019 collection?

Yes. The next collection is a carry-on, as there was so much stuff I didn’t get to explore with this one.

When I was in India, I looked at family photos of my uncle and mom in the 1980s and 1990s. For this collection, I’m looking at these ritualistic ways of passing things on through families. My nan gave me three bangles that she got when she was married at 18. I would never take them off, as they have a lot of meaning. I also have shirts of hers and jumpers from my grandad when he passed away. If you’re going to have things that have that much meaning, it’s a really nice thing.

The context of how one person would have worn something that’s passed on compared with someone else is interesting. I wear my stepdad’s shirts a lot. Obviously he wears them to business meetings. I wear them tied up like a hoochie mama to go clubbing.

What can we learn about changing our consumption habits when it comes to fashion?

I would say take your time with purchasing stuff. You don’t need to feel the pressure to wear something new all the time. I’m not saying don’t buy anything new, but buy your wardrobe really well. My friends and I also swap stuff, for example. Also, question who made your clothes. If you really love something, you’ll keep it. Buy something that you love rather than buying two for £10 because it’s cheap.

How should fashion houses evolve when it comes to their interaction with shoppers?

Luxury needs to stay luxury, but it also needs to become accessible in the right ways. Not accessible because of a sale, but accessible by letting people into their world by showing how it’s created. That’s what gets people really interested.

High-end brands need to remember that people love their products because of the story and the craft behind their brands. These “how it’s made” Dior videos or Burberry’s Makers House, for example, show what happens behind the scenes and make people fall in love with the product.

That’s what people like Charles Jeffrey do so well. He’s great on his Instagram — he asks people questions and talks to them. He becomes accessible, so people then want to become part of that world without negating or lowering any standards. He just opens the doors a little bit. That’s really what high-end brands should concentrate on. Let people in in a way without telling them your secrets.

Who is working the industry in the right way?

I think Stella McCartney does amazingly well. Her label is made responsibly but also beautifully. The desirability is still there while she’s responsible, and you need that desirability to be there if you want people to buy into you. You need to sell a garment, not the idea of a garment just being sustainable.

I also think Martine Rose is phenomenal. I admire people like her. She’s so smart and does things on her own terms. She’s not a slave to the system. The fact that she sold her Nike collaboration on Craigslist is amazing. She’s genius and makes everyone so excited about her and her world.

Can fashion ever reach a place where its operations are fully sustainable?

No, that’s utopian nonsense. Because of the internet, people can read up on things — you can’t just feed them shit and think they’ll believe it. Just look at this plastic straw debate. Everyone is against it because people on Instagram and Twitter went crazy about it. People will become more educated and push for change. We will never be fully sustainable, but we’ll get better.

#hs18 #Ahluwalia Studio #fashion blog #streetwear blog

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writerspink · 5 years

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9.2

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10.1

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10.2

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K-12 Words was originally published on PinkWrite

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health-and-felicidad · 5 years

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Six Healthy Habits to Be Happier and More Positive

Happiness is our holy grail and our measure of a life well lived—not to mention the topic of countless books, TED Talks, and apps. But what exactly are we searching for? Scientists devoted to answering that question define happy people as those who have a positive temperament, social confidants, and the resources to make progress toward the goals they value. Put plainly, "it's the joy we feel as we move toward our potential," says Michelle Gielan, the author of Broadcasting Happiness and founder of the Institute for Applied Positive Research, in Dallas.

The good news is we're generally content as a country, but there's room to grow. In the 2018 United Nations World Happiness Report, which asked people in more than 150 countries to assess their life on a scale of 1 to 10 (based on markers like life expectancy, GDP, and social support), Americans rated their lives at a not-too-shabby 6.8. But that's nearly a point behind the top three—Finland, Norway, and Denmark—which rated theirs over 7.5. (PSA: No one, not even Norwegians, can maintain a 10; that would be exhausting!) According to experts, there are clear obstacles in our way of feeling deeper fulfillment every day. Learn how to surmount them.

RELATED: Seven Stress-Fighting Foods to Add to Your Diet

Happiness Hurdle: Our Primal Brain

There's a little thing called the negativity bias. Thousands of years ago, it gave humans an advantage: We were ever-ready to dodge life-and-death danger. Now it means we're hardwired to notice and store negative experiences more than positive ones. A single critical comment can knock the wind out of an otherwise great day.

Pausing for a minute to appreciate something sweet or beautiful helps us override the negativity bias. To get in the habit, Gielan suggests taking a photo each day of something that makes you smile and laugh, or feel lucky and loving: your sleeping child, an incredible meal, a pink sunset, your funniest old friend. Then, at the end of the week, look at them again all together. Doing so "trains your brain to watch for moments to capture," Gielan writes in Broadcasting Happiness. "It refocuses your attention on the positive, meaningful parts of the day, and shifts it away from stress and negativity." Soon you won't even need to snap pictures to feel that pleasant sensation.

Happiness Hurdle: Going It Alone

Isolating yourself is a surefire way to feel down. The happiest people have rich and satisfying relationships, according to 2002 and 2018 studies by Martin Seligman, Ph.D., a professor and director of the Positive Psychology Center at the University of Pennsylvania; and Ed Diener, Ph.D., a psychology professor at the University of Virginia and the University of Utah. While it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg conundrum (do joyful people naturally invite more meaningful bonds, or vice versa?), a strong social network is a win-win.

You can overcome this hurdle by reaching out to others. That doesn't mean you have to cram your calendar full. An easy starting point is to try opening conversations with an optimistic comment, a tactic Gielan calls a "power lead." Greet a coworker with "I just listened to a great podcast" instead of "I'm so tired," or ask your kids, "What was the best part of your day?" rather than the rote "How was your day?" The shift is subtle but can foster an immediate positive connection.

RELATED: Healing Crystals That'll Make You a Believer

Happiness Hurdle: Living in 2021

The ring. The raise. The last seven pounds. We can all fall into the trap of thinking we'll be happy the minute X, Y, or Z happens. "The problem is that this pushes happiness into the future," Gielan says. "When you focus in the present instead, you get your brain to concentrate on what is working in your life."

Instead of constantly thinking ahead, try to stay in the moment. The idea of centering yourself is at the core of mindfulness meditation, which has been shown to increase activity in the left part of the frontal region of the brain, the area responsible for positive emotions like optimism. Ralph De La Rosa, a therapist and mediation teacher, and author of The Monkey Is the Messenger , suggests waking up with a "5-3-1-1" practice. While still in bed, take five big, deep breaths. Think of three things you're grateful for. Smile one real smile, and set one intention for your day. Habits like this pay big dividends. Not only can being more present give you a sunnier outlook, Gielan says, it also may help improve your energy level and your performance at work; it's even been shown to up students' test scores. The other bonus might be the world's best-kept career secret: When you zero in on the good happening now, Gielan notes, you're more likely to excel.

Happiness Hurdle: The Social-Media Vortex

"Compare and despair" is no joke. It's easy to look up from a long scroll thinking that everyone's life is a party but yours. We don't need experts to tell us this habit is eroding our self-esteem, though a 2014 study published in Psychology of Popular Media Culture proved just that. Newer research has pinpointed just how destructive it can be. A 2017 study published in Journal of Affective Disorders found that the more time 18-to-22-year-olds spent on social media, the more likely they were to have symptoms of anxiety.

Set aside time daily to disconnect each day. Start with small increments; even 10 minutes counts. Then work up to being phone-free for the first half-hour of the morning, at meals, and during the last hour before bed, since both your phone's lighting and its irresistible pull detract from quality sleep—a must-have for combating anxiety and stress.

RELATED: Eight Ways to Have a Healthier Relationship with Social Media

Happiness Hurdle: Incoming Worries

Speaking of stress, Americans report feeling more fried than ever. In January 2017, the American Psychological Association found a statistically significant increase in stress levels for the first time in its annual survey's 10-year history. A 2018 follow-up found that we're as anxious about the future of our country (63 percent) as we are about evergreens like money (62 percent) and work (61 percent).

Still haven't put down your phone? Step away: It's one big reason we're all hopped up on headlines. Then think of tangible ways to diffuse what's vexing you, whether it's having a heart-to-heart with your mom or using an app to monitor your spending. If you're still reeling, take a deep breath. Research shows that when our exhale is even a few counts longer than our inhale, the vagus nerve, which runs from the brain down through the neck to the diaphragm and abdomen, tells our nervous system to chill out. Our heart rate drops, our blood pressure lowers, the blood vessels relax, and the whole body physically calms down. Inhale slowly through your nose, then exhale with a soft haaaaaaa sound, until your lungs feel completely empty. (Repeat this 10 times, with a three-second pause between breaths, for an even more satisfying release.)

Happiness Hurdle: Spinning Our Wheels

We all feel stuck sometimes—in an unfulfilling job, a draining relationship, or just a "meh" state of mind. It turns out that means we might be striving for the wrong things. People who shoot for personal pleasures (or extrinsic goals), such as fame and wealth, are demonstrably less happy than those who seek personal growth, relationships, and community (intrinsic goals), per a 2009 University of Rochester study. Researchers asked graduating college students about their aspirations, and followed up two years later. Those who pursued extrinsic goals reported greater anxiety and poorer physical health despite their accomplishments, while the group with intrinsic ones cited greater well-being and self-esteem as well as fewer physical signs of stress.

Topple this hurdle by finding a purpose. Actually, make that plural: purposes. Think of what drives you in various areas of your life—your personal, family, work, and community roles. "We have complex lives," says Victor J. Strecher, Ph.D., a health-behavior and health-education professor at the University of Michigan School of Public Health, and the author of Life on Purpose. "We don't care about just one thing." A multipurpose mind-set helps us prioritize and find balance, he says. When we catch ourselves glued to our email and ignoring our family, we can think, Is this really serving my purpose here? Then we can turn back to things that do—the stuff that truly makes us feel happy.

Kelly DiNardo is the coauthor of Living the Sutras: A Guide to Yoga Wisdom Beyond the Mat.

To get our top stories delivered to your inbox, sign up for the Healthy Living newsletter

source https://www.health.com/syndication/healthy-habits-happier-more-positive

#health #mind #body #fitness

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peakvincent · 2 years

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happy day-after-indie bookstore day from me, @limehints, and 50% of the books we bought yesterday

#*#goal was one book per store and we ended up with six stores and eight books which actually i think is FINE

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giftofshewbread · 3 years

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Converging Signs

By Daymond Duck Published on: June 20, 2021

Many excellent Bible prophecy teachers believe there will be a convergence of the signs (all of them coming on the scene) at the end of the age.

Here are some reasons to believe that is happening now.

One, concerning the Battle of Gog and Magog: on June 7, 2021, U.S. Sec. of State Blinken said if Iran continues to violate its nuclear agreement, Iran could have enough enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon in a matter of weeks.

If Israel follows through on its threat to prevent this, Israel could be forced to act very soon.

(Note: On June 14, 2021, Amir Tsarfati said, “If nothing is done in the next month or so, Iran will be nuclear.”)

Two, more on the Battle of Gog and Magog: in recent years, Israel has launched hundreds of strikes against enemy targets in Syria, but on June 9, 2021, Israel launched one of its largest strikes ever.

In the early morning hours, Israel struck several major Iranian targets (some sources say at least 6) almost simultaneously all over Syria.

The attacks were followed by several hours of secondary explosions, indicating that out-of-control fires continued to destroy stored missiles, rockets, powder, etc.

The attacks will probably get more intense as Iran gets closer to developing nuclear weapons.

Three, concerning Israel: on June 13, 2021, the government of Prime Min. Netanyahu ended, and the government of Naftali Bennett and Yair Lapid began.

The Bennett-Lapid government contains 8 political parties (some leftist, some non-religious, a minority of conservatives, and a group of Arabs with ties to the terrorist group called the Muslim Brotherhood).

Some conservative religious Jews say:

Israel’s new government is evil, dangerous, and it will end Zionism (the Jewish character of Israel; freedom of religion in Israel, etc.).

Bennett has lied because he promised during his campaign for office that he would not form a government with some of the political parties that he has now joined forces with.

The Bennett-Lapid government will divide Israel because Arab leaders claim that Bennett and Lapid made concessions that will let them reclaim land in Israel, and Bennett and Lapid are not denying it.

Prophecy teacher Amir Tsarfati said:

The new government is the beginning of the end of Israel as Christians have known it.

God is changing Israel for the worse.

Israel is no longer a democracy, no longer conservative, no longer united.

He believes the stage is being set for the fulfillment of major prophecies (perhaps Gog and Magog, a covenant, the Tribulation Period, an agreement to rebuild the Temple, etc.).

Prophecy teacher J.D. Farag said:

Some suggest that the unprecedented four elections and now this new government may actually be the catalyst for the anti-Messiah to arrive on the scene under the banner of the vacuum of leadership.

Israel is ripe and ready for the Antichrist to come on the scene now like never before.

Prime Min. Netanyahu said:

His party “will not rest until we get rid of this dangerous government.”

Bennett “is not a man who upholds his word. Neither are he and his ministers capable of standing up the U.S. and world nations – nor are they even willing to do so.”

“They are not fit to represent this country for a single day.”

“They must be celebrating in Tehran” (Iran).

Israel needs the prayers and support of Christians as much as ever.

Four, concerning world government: many highly respected Bible prophecy teachers have long taught that U.S. power and influence must decline, and EU power and influence must increase.

Pres. Biden is traveling overseas for separate meetings with the G-7, NATO, the EU, and Russia.

Concerning Biden’s meeting with EU officials, it was reported that many EU officials believe it is time for the EU to start influencing U.S. policy instead of the U.S. influencing EU policy.

According to one report, EU leaders plan to be less submissive to the U.S. and more likely to carve out a bigger role for the EU on the world stage.

Five, also concerning the decline of America: on June 10, 2021, Rev. Michael Bresciani, editor of American Prophet, expressed his opinion about several issues that are well worth repeating.

Concerning whether black lives matter or not: Bresciani asked how can anyone say that black lives matter “when almost 4,000 black babies a day are aborted, and many thousands of black lives are lost yearly to black-on-black crime?”

Concerning worship of the Antichrist: Bresciani said, “Our children are being indoctrinated by liberalism, critical race theory, BLM, Antifa, communism and Godlessness – is it not all that hard to believe that they, our children, will be the ones who will soon worship this ‘beast’ scripture refers to as the antichrist? If you are thinking this is not possible – you are not thinking.”

Concerning the mixing of genes from humans with monkeys in China, the mixing of genes from humans with pigs in California, and the mixing of genes from humans with mice in Japan: Bresciani asked, “If God is displeased with the perverting of the sexes, what will his reaction be to the mixing of the species?”

Bresciani believes these things are coming from depraved minds, and they signify that America is sinking into depravity.

Six, Rev. Bresciani mentioned the world’s tallest moving statue called “The Giant.”

“The Giant” is a 10-story tall digital art gallery with millions of pixels in the shape of a human, its head and arms move, it speaks and sings, changes its appearance every hour to look like different famous people, and it will be displayed in 21 cities in 2021.

Concerning this statue: Bresciani quotes what the Bible says about the statue of Antichrist. “And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed” (Rev 13:15).

Bresciani is not saying “The Giant” is the statue of the Antichrist, but he is saying that the creation of a statue that looks like the Antichrist and speaks is no longer in doubt.

This writer believes that God is showing the world pictures or shadows of things in the Book of Revelation, and the coming fulfillment of those prophecies is not in doubt.

Seven, in case anyone doubts that world leaders are in the process of establishing a world government, here is this writer’s understanding of some of what G-7 members agreed to in writing on June 13, 2021.

Work with the G-20 to explore ways to strengthen accountability, increase the tracking and allocation of global health security financing, and establish a Global Health Threats Council (use Covid-19 vaccinations to track people’s health, etc.).

Reform the World Trade Organization (WTO) to make it more resilient and responsive to the needs of global citizens (citizens of the world, not citizens of nations).

Push a global tax system to improve the global economy, the prosperity and wellbeing of all people (wealth redistribution), to uphold the common good (world government) and our shared values (world religion).

Maintain its commitment to international cooperation, multilateralism and an open, resilient, rules-based world order (world government).

Tackle racism in all forms and violence and discrimination against LGBQTI+ populations (oppose those that hold Christian values).

Reaffirm its commitment to the Paris Climate Accords (an agreement that some say surrenders the sovereignty of nations) and strengthen and speed up its implementation (push nations to act faster and more aggressively; speed up world government; understand that the existing UN goal is to have it up and running by 2030 and the G-7 wants to speed things up). Vaccinate at least 60% of the global population by 2022 and recognize that extensive immunization is a global public good (make forced vaccination a global law for the benefit of world government).

Ensure that Iran will never build a nuclear weapon (force a nation to obey world law).

The Holy Spirit is the only One that can restrain the coming world government and world religion, but people need to know what is coming and truly accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour before the globalists bring in their world government and world religion.

Eight, for whatever it is worth, on June 14, 2021, Populist Press reported, “The truth is coming out. I think we all expect this as Biden is going downhill fast!”

“Trudeau [Pres. of France] overheard telling staffers he expects Kamala Harris to be President by the end of 2022 per W.H. official attending G7.” (This comment was originally posted on Twitter on June 14, 2021, by political activist and news correspondent Jack Posobiec.)

Nine, concerning vaccinations for Covid-19:

On June 14, 2021, LifeSiteNews reported that “The vaccine advisory committee of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will convene an emergency meeting this week to discuss heart-related side effects possibly linked to Covid-19 vaccines.”

The same report said, “Johnson & Johnson’s jab again was dragged into controversy last week when the FDA ordered the company to discard 60 million COVID-19 vaccine doses, citing contamination risks.”

Finally, are you Rapture Ready?

If you want to be rapture ready and go to heaven, you must be born again (John 3:3). God loves you, and if you have not done so, sincerely admit that you are a sinner; believe that Jesus is the virgin-born, sinless Son of God who died for the sins of the world, was buried, and raised from the dead; ask Him to forgive your sins, cleanse you, come into your heart and be your Saviour; then tell someone that you have done this.

#father's #day #father #son #holy ghost #holy #spirit #June #20th #2021 #news

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pawukicu-blog · 6 years

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My inspiring MP3 blog

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MP3 compression functions by lowering (or approximating) the precision of specific parts of sound which can be considered to be over and above the Listening to capabilities of most human beings. This method is often generally known as perceptual coding, or psychoacoustic modeling. log and ensure in the final entry (make use of the timestamp as reference) the DeviceUI.dll has actually been registered correctly. If it doesn't sign up effectively it is going to say "Did not sign-up server DeviceUI.dll" and you will have to fiddle some much more with the options. 8) Download the hyperlink towards the Audible e-book from audible.com nine) Double click on the website link (this can start the obtain during the now open up Manager.exe method). 10) The moment obtain is finished Verify the file is imported into Manager.exe. If it isn't import it manually. 11) Open AaxToMp3GUI.exe click on top rated button and select the aax file that was downloaded. Then click on bottom button. 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mikemortgage · 6 years

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Andre Desmarais invests in growing the organic small-farm movement

Andre Desmarais’ farm seems too pretty to be real.

A massive, colourful sculpture by French-American artist Niki de Saint Phalle towers over beets and greens. Stained-glass windows by Quebec painter Marc Seguin adorn the pig barn on the 160-acre property that lies six kilometres from the U.S. border. Chickens hop in and out of wooden coops, occasionally escaping the meadow to venture near the family’s residence.

And yet, La Ferme des Quatre-Temps, a name evoking the four seasons as well as a native wild plant, is on track to sell $700,000 worth of vegetables from about eight cultivated acres in its third year, a 40 per cent jump from 2017. The numbers matter to the co-chief executive officer of financial empire Power Corp., who considers the experimental farm a form of philanthropy, because they show small-scale organic agriculture can be lucrative and inspire careers.

“If we can meet our goals, we’ll demonstrate that it’s possible to have profitable farms for young people, that there is a future there,” Desmarais said in an interview on the Quebec estate, an hour south of Montreal. “That means having a healthy lifestyle, with an exceptional quality of life where you can take a few months off in the winter, and make $100,000 worth of revenue.”

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When he started thinking about organic food after his grandson’s birth in 2013, farming was foreign territory to Desmarais, who hails from the family that funds museums, hospitals and universities. But he knew where to ask. For years, he’d been close a friend of David Rockefeller, the late financial titan who donated family land and barns in Pocantico Hills, N.Y. to establish the non-profit Stones Barns Center for Food and Agriculture in 2001.

The centre, known for its educational programs, connected Desmarais with experts who helped him find the right land and the right man — Jean-Martin Fortier, a charismatic Quebec vegetable grower with a worldwide following.

The two were no obvious match.

Part of the media-shy Desmarais family, with its business and political connections across the globe, Andre and his brother Paul Jr. jointly run Power Corp., the Montreal-based holding company that controls such large insurance and mutual-fund businesses as Great-West Lifeco Inc. and IGM Financial Inc., and has a web of investments from the U.S. to China.

Farmer Jean-Martin Fortier

Fortier’s community-focused approach reads like a response to the excesses of globalization. He’s a fierce advocate of “human-scale agriculture.” He shuns tractors for hand tools and sells directly to consumers. A book detailing the techniques that helped him and his partner make six figures a year in Quebec on less than two acres sold more than 100,000 copies and made him a sought-after public speaker.

“My message was to explain to people that it’s possible to have a small farm, with small tools and equipment, and to manage to live well off it,” Fortier said. “And Mr. Desmarais comes up with his plan for a big project and I’m like, ‘I’m not sure.'”

The two men found common ground in societal goals — a model farm would help workers prepare to start their own, spread organic agriculture and improve people’s health. Working for a billionaire also gave Fortier the means to try things that were previously out of reach, such as commissioning an ecosystem of ponds, hedge rows and bird houses to attract predators of garden pests. (The jury is still out on that).

For the 61-year-old Desmarais, the project has been a bright spot during relatively tough times. He took an eight-month medical leave last year to treat a cardiac issue. Upon his return, he oversaw Power Corp.’s parting with La Presse, the Montreal daily his father had bought five decades earlier. Shares of Power Corp. have been flat for about a decade amid increasing competition in the wealth-management industry.

Desmarais considers Quatre-Temps as philanthropy because he doesn’t expect to recoup the several million dollars he put into the farm, which also runs higher-than-normal expenses due to its experimental nature. Still, he would like sales to cover operating costs this year.

Quatre-Temps has other powerful backers, which distinguishes it from a typical farm. About 20 families in Desmarais’ social circle receive baskets of produce and invitations to stay at the 160-year-old house on the property in exchange for “the equivalent price a very good golf club would charge.”

Consumers can taste the products, from eggs to tomatoes, at one of Montreal’s biggest food markets or at high-end eateries such as Liverpool House, where Prime Minister Justin Trudeau took former U.S. President Barack Obama last year. Desmarais figures the sweet spot is to price his organic vegetables at no more than 30 per cent higher than regular grocery stores.

One of the tidy, modern structures on the Quatre Temps farm.

Those who can’t make it to Montreal can watch a documentary series called Les Fermiers (The Farmers) shown on a small French-language channel and online. It’s no Kardashian drama, but the daily life of Fortier and his Quatre-Temps crew grappling with frost or racing against the clock on harvest days beat expectations and will extend into a second season, according to producer Catherine Bureau.

The series also introduces some of the dozen garden workers, who’ve come from as far as Italy and live in group housing provided by the farm. Under Fortier they get to master bio-intensive gardening, a method that develops the soil while planting lots of food on small surfaces. They also take on various responsibilities, from plant nursing to handling restaurant chefs.

“What’s fun here is you get to learn about a lot of different things pretty quickly,” said Flaam Hardy, who’s in her second year and in charge of irrigation and pest management.

There’s one drawback for future farm owners. With Desmarais’ wealth and focus on aesthetics, problems that would take days to address in real life get sorted in no time.

“We don’t get to experience the challenges that come with not having money on a farm,” Hardy said.

Desmarais has followed up with a smaller farm close to his family’s lush estate northeast of Quebec City. And two alumni from Quatre-Temps have gone on to start their own project in Quebec, expanding a network Desmarais would like to see grow to 100 farms in 10 years.

“I don’t know if we’ll get to that but I believe we’re on the right track,” he said. “I think it’s possible to make a difference. At least we have to try.”

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Episode 6: Safe Supplements

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WEBSITES LINKS: https://www.asada.gov.au https://www.globaldro.com https://www.bodyscience.com.au/drugtest

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REPORTS: WADA 2016 Anti-Doping Report ASADA Annual Report FY17 Upper limit of the doping risk linked to sports supplements Report

Podcast Transcript

Greg: Today Kenny Wallace, three times Olympic medalist, Jane Smithers, scientist from human and supplement testing Australia join us to discuss drugs in sport. Every month, at least one Australian athlete tests positive from a supplement contaminated with a prohibited substance. Now that’s a stat from ASADA this year, the Australian Sports Anti Doping Authority. Let’s chat.

[intro] Welcome to the Body Science podcast, bringing you everything you need, want, and should know about health, fitness, nutrition, and training. As always, the information contained in this podcast is for information purposes only and is not designed to diagnose or be prescripted to treat, prevent, or manage any injury, disease, or other health related condition. All information provided in the podcast is the opinion of the individual and other contributors and does not represent the policy, procedure or opinion of any other corporate entity or third party. Warning — these Body Science podcasts occasionally contain strong language which may be unsuitable for children, unusual humor which may be unsuitable for some adults and advanced science which may be unsuitable for bro science majors. Stay tuned. The Body Science podcast is about to start.

Today’s podcast is brought to you by the new super berry flavored Amino BCAA fuel. This is the ideal workout companion to support your muscle growth and repair. Delivers the perfect combination of amino acids, electrolytes, and vitamins your body needs for energy and hydration to build muscle, boost recovery, and prevent muscle loss while dieting. And what’s even better, every batch is tested for purity by Australia’s largest independent sports drug testing laboratory HASTA.

Greg: We’re at Body Science headquarters day for another fit happy, healthy episode of the Body Science podcast. Today, we’ve got some exciting people on board. Got Dr. Mac, worst Instagram account in fitness still. Next to him is a great mate of ours. Been with the brand a long time and we’ll hit up on when that is later, Kenny Wallace, OAM, three times Olympic medalist. I have to read this guys, sorry, it takes while — One goal, Beijing K1 500, one bronze, Beijing and K1 1000, London fourth K2 1000, one bronze Rio K2 1000, fourth in the K4 that year in the thousand. Seven times world champion.

I’m taking a breath, Kenny, and coming back in.

Interesting fact — stood on the podium from 2012 to 2016, 17 times more than any other athlete in an international event, so clapping that one in mate. That’s a big effort and I’m sure there’s a few little wee tests amongst all that.

On the other side of the table is a good friend of ours now. Shouldn’t say that because she’s an independent third party tester. But we love what she’s brought to Australia. The fact that she’s from HASTA, which is Human And Supplementation Australia, and the “she” I’m talking about, I apologize for calling you a “she,” is Jane Smithers, one of the scientists.

Look, Jane brought HASTA to Australia to supplement companies to be able to test supplements and that’s a massive thing for us. We launched back in 2011 with informed sport before that. It’s great that Australia has a recognised drug testing lab. And you can talk more about that because you talk way better than I do on that.

Mac: Maybe she’ll be able to talk during the podcast.

Greg: Yeah. I’ve clocked up more words today than I have in every podcast.

Jane: It’s a record.

Greg: Yeah I know. And it probably will sound terrible, but let’s move on.

But one of the big things here is with the “buts” and the “ums” is, Dr Macca helped me set up my second drug testing program we had. The first one we had was, I used to ring people like Kenny and go — How are you mate? What’s happening? Being drug tested? Oh yeah. — then I’d document that he’d been drug tested and what supplements we used and we didn’t change manufacturers. And we stayed creating brand for years and years and we didn’t fall into the trap of — oh, that was $2 cheaper this month and we’re going through a ton of it, let’s do that. And that’s how we ran our drug testing.

I went to Dr Mac and I said, mate, this is really hard and it’s getting serious. We had like 47 elite teams or something on our books at this stage and there was nothing around. So I engage Mac to go and find out what is the best option for us. And at the time — I’ll let you tell the story, mate, you might want to jump in.

Mac: Yeah. It was uncharted territory, mate. 2010 was the initial conversations and the initial foray into having a structured in-house testing scheme in place for Body Science products. And so I did exactly that. I went to what I thought would be the places to go here in Australia — various government and independent labs. And there was no capacity to do it whatsoever.

So we ended up with HFL labs in the UK. And as you know, we ended up a bundling up individual batches of products, a full range of products across the Body Science range, which is pretty big at the time.

Greg: Was.

Mac: I think at one time, you had 100 products didn’t you?

Greg: We were doing a lot of testing.

Mac: Yeah. We were doing a lot of testing and bundling them up, sending him to the UK, and waiting for those to come back, batch by batch, flavor by flavor, the usual routine.

Greg: We were doing a lot of raw material testing, too.

Mac: A lot of raw material testing…

Greg: Once you start that program, you start creating new formula as well, when you use new suppliers.

Jane: Testing ingredients.

Greg: Yeah. And the number of positive ones we got was actually scary.

Mac: Yeah. There were a few came back with a few alarm bells with various ingredients. I can’t remember what they were.

Greg: Supply channels…

Mac: The supply channels were the issue. Absolutely. But it was uncharted territory. And it’s evolved significantly in the last eight years or so since then. But time flies.

Greg: Thankfully. It’s good to go to sleep at night these days.

Mac: Absolutely.

Greg: So, Jane, let’s start with you. Tell us all about HASTA. Like why would people care that HASTA does what it does?

Jane: Well if we just backtrack for a minute to what you were saying before… As I was saying a minute ago, there wasn’t an option in Australia to test supplements. So HASTA was incorporated into a large drug testing lab to meet that need in Australia. So there was definitely a gap in the market. So HASTA is part of Racing Analytical Services, and we’re the largest sports drug testing laboratory in Australia. We’re an independent drug testing lab. So that’s the right sort of lab to do this sort of testing.

And that’s the same background as you were talking about with informed sport and HFL in the UK. They’re a drug testing in sport laboratory that’s now specialised in supplements. So that’s different from the labs that actually test the athletes, because they’re WADA accredited labs that just test athletes. Whereas we do predominantly racing testing. So for horses and dogs, we did more than 50,000 samples per annum, and that’s where our expertise comes from.

So for us to then move into supplements, we don’t have a conflict of interest and we can bring that drug testing expertise to testing your supplements.

Greg: OK.

Jane: Why is it important? Well, it protects your competing athletes. So it’s really important that athletes understand what they’re taking, but there are opportunities where they want to try something or they think this looks okay or they hadn’t read the label properly where they may end up ingesting something that they shouldn’t and have adverse finding. The other thing as you said, is you have legitimate manufacturers like yourself, who have a problem with their supply chain and they find there’s a contaminant in their product which you don’t expect to be there, and can then ruin both your reputation and your sponsored athletes. So it’s really about protecting both the athlete and your brand and your reputation.

Greg: True.

Kenny, how many drug tests have you done?

Kenny: Well, this week? Last week? [laughter] Hundreds if not, close to thousands. It’s amazing. And when it rains it pours. We might not get tested for six weeks, a couple of months and then we’ll get tested three times within two weeks. I think the most I’ve been tested is literally twice within like an 18 hour period — that’s probably the most. Rio Olympics I got tested three times within the week.

Greg: Wow.

Kenny: I don’t know what difference they’re going to find between the first and the last one, but… It’s amazing though, they do it and it’s good that it’s random. We don’t know when it’s coming.

For me… A lot of athletes find it really annoying to get drug tested because it takes time, and they turn up unannounced. Nobody knows that they’re coming, but I’d rather get tested every day of the year to show that you can do sport clean, and you can still compete at the highest level.

So for the sake of — sometimes it might be 10 minutes, if you need to go to the bathroom or, or take blood. Other times it’s hours. Because we been training for so long we are dehydrated. As much as we try to drink during training, you just get dehydrated. So it does take time, but I’d rather get tested every day.

Greg: So, Jane, do you want to tell us some of the stats in relation to what’s found from the testing process and what you actually test for and what you do?

Jane: So we test for over 200 WADA banned substances in every supplement we test. And that’s across a broad range of different WADA banned group. So the WADA code is actually really complex and there’s different groups of drugs that are banned both in and out of competition.

So to Ken’s point, the reason they test more when you’re, say, at the Olympics or in competition is because there’s a much broader range of drugs that you can be tested for — in competition testing, out of competition testing.

Kenny: In competition testing. Out of competition testing.

Greg: Wow.

Jane: So there’s a much broader range of drugs that you’re tested for in competition. And that’s why they do more testing at that time. So for us as a drug testing lab, we’re trying to cover the broadest range of drugs, that if they were in a supplement would cause an athlete problems both in and out of competition.

So in that way we have to take what’s — basically, suddenly, your protein powders, or everything form protein powders to vitamins and minerals, and get them to an extract that we can test. And then it goes through a series of different screens. It’s in a big chemistry labs, so it’s GCMS and LCMS technology. It’s very sensitive. We get down to parts per billion and we’re looking for traces of those drugs that are banned in sport.

So it might be, you know, screens for anabolic steroids. There’s a different screen again for diuretics and stimulants. And we’re one of the few labs who contests for peptides. We have a research lab that’s done a lot of work in doping in sport in horses and dogs looking for APO and performance enhancing peptides. And we bring that skill to our supplement testing as well.

Greg: There’s no peptides in sport. Is there Mac?

Mac: I don’t think so.

Greg: I didn’t think there was either.

[laughter]

Greg: Thanks for all your input here Mac.

Mac: I’m listening.

Greg: You’ve been unreal. [laughs]

Mac: I’m fine. I’m sitting back. I’m normally doing all the talking. I’m listening.

Greg: I’m quite happy for you to jump in too. You’ve got some good stories to tell.

Mac: No. That’s all good.

Greg: So Ken, you head overseas to Poland.

Kenny: Yeah. Poland. Hungary. Any. We do a lot of time through Europe, generally between three to four months a year. Because that’s where most of our racing is. All our world cups, all our world championships. Some of the places that we go through Europe are some of the most picturesque places that we’ve ever trained at. And other places are — we’re out in the slums for some of it.

So for us to find… We’re training on water ten sessions a week, we’re doing three to four gym sessions a week. We’re riding a bike to and from training. It might only be a few K, but it adds up when you’re doing three and four sessions a day.

So for us to get the nutrients out of our food that we need, we need to take supplements to supplement our food intake, because we are training so much. It’s funny and it’s kind of the opposite to what a lot of people are — we’re trying to actually keep weight on because we can’t… We’re trying so much. Even though we’re doing gym and everything, we’re actually still trying to keep weight on and for our muscles to not eat away at themselves, basically.

So we’d spend a lot of time in Europe, basically.

Greg: So, as a team, how do you guys handle the food side, the supplements side, the…

Since the darkest day in Australian sport or whatever it was called — it was a dark day for us, I know that — it’s become such a… Everyone talks about it. Like…

Mac: You’re not talking about the sand paper are you?

Greg: No.

Mac: You’re talking about the other darkest day.

Greg: Wow.

Mac: Is that right?

Greg: He’s a good friend of ours, too, that guy. [laughs]

Mac: Oh, right. Sorry.

[laughter]

Mac: I was trying to contribute.

Greg: No. That was really good.

Mac: Wow.

Greg: So, from a perspective of travel and going to another country, you’ve got major issues, like I’m talking to a lot of dietitians these days, and they’re testing — they want protein bars tested, they want everything tested, not sure the lolly bars and all the confectionary companies are doing drug testing — but from an athlete point of view and an overseas base, how do you guys prepare for this and how do you guys sit yourself up? What’s it look like from a perspective of you go away for up to months at a time?

Kenny: Well, for us, the biggest preparation that we have is we’ve got to box it all up, and then we turn up to the airport hangar, and smile really nicely at the girl checking us in or the guy checking us in, and go — we got a few extra kilos. And we take our supplements with us.

I’m sure there’s companies overseas, and through Europe that are fine and a third party test as well. But — we trust the brand here and we trust that it’s been tested third party. Everything else.

So at the first steps we take our supplements with us. We don’t risk it. We have a zero tolerance for risk in any way. We try to minimise that.

Greg: So are you walking into a shop and buying a Muesli bar? Or…

Kenny: No, not really.

Greg: You’re not doing anything like that.

Kenny: No.

There’s cafes out there that are doing protein shakes or they’re adding all these things into these… They look beautiful to drink, but we don’t. We don’t touch any of that. We can’t. Yeah. Zero risk. Even with bottles, the normal drink bottle. Everything is sealed.

We’re educated so when we are young in our sporting career to start looking for these types of things that, the older you get, we just take it for granted. Like even now it’s — everything’s sealed bottles. It sounds bad to not reuse some things, but for us, it’s a zero risk policy.

Where we train, there’s a place in Hungary, which is fine, I’m sure. We’re surrounded by nice people, but we don’t take any risk. We put locks on our fridges. All our bottles are sealed. We don’t fill our drink bottle containers up out of the tap anymore. We don’t do anything. The waters there, probably fine. 99.9% of the time, it’s fine. But we have that zero risk policy that — we just take everything with us or it’s sealed bottles. Or…

Mac: Strength and conditioning-wise, that has two effects. Certainly, from any doping perspective. So, at the elite level, medicos, nutritionists will go ahead often, go and head a team that’s as much about planning the logistics of travel and ensuring that the quality of food is good as well as the doping risk associated with it. So from a performance perspective, it’s made sure that you’ve got what you need nutrition-wise and perhaps equally as important, but perhaps a consequence of that is making sure that there’s no risk of inadvertent findings with contaminant in, it could be anything — with respect to supplements, it could be meat, could be anything that’s sourced locally. Particularly overseas.

Ken has a good point. My experience is more so in a national football codes here in Australia, and each one of those has their own anti-doping policy — not “doping policy.” Faux pas.

But fundamentally it’s about education. And Ken makes a great point as well. When you’ve got athletes that are maybe living at home with mum and dad, or not cooking for themselves or having things organized for them, then…

What I’m saying is, you can only control what happens when they are under your care.

Greg: Yeah. Totally.

Jane: Yeah.

Mac: Once they leave and they drop in to the servo on the way home and they purchase whatever, you can do nothing about that. So it’s an education process, and it’s not about scaring the heck out of anybody, but it’s about awareness, and it’s about being informed.

The fundamental policy with any team I’ve ever worked with is, not every team can afford to give all their athletes supplements obviously — different budgets and different levels. So in many cases, athletes are buying their own products.

So where do they source those? So you can certainly make some recommendations. You got to stay off the Internet. I mean, fundamentally, we tell athletes, don’t buy anything that’s manufactured overseas. End of story. Mainly around the anti-doping risk. And equally as much, there’s absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that the active ingredients in a product are even in there. So it’s as much around the quality of the product as it is about an adverse finding within an anti-doping test.

So there’s a lot of working parts to this whole system of nutrition, supplementation, anti-doping. It all comes under one umbrella, really. But it’s complicated.

Jane: And even just defining a supplement. You said. When you take supplements. And people ring us up all the time. “We got a supplement we want to test.” It’s such a broad term. There’s not a definition that fits all the things that are now being counted as supplements.

So if you look at the fruit stand. You’ve got formulated supplementary sports foods, which is where a lot of your products sit. And they’ve got a very defined characteristic and we understand what we’re working with and you can identify that as a supplement.

But from there you go through a whole lot of complimentary medicines, which increasingly, there’s a lot of interesting — everything from Turmeric to fish oil to those sorts of things. Are they a supplement? Are they a complimentary medicine? And then right through to your bars. I mean you get straight Muesli bars and then you get a protein bar. They send this protein bars for testing but not the Muesli bars.

So finding that line, I think it’s really difficult for athletes as well to say — what are the things they should be declaring and talking to their dietitian and coaches and strength and conditioning coaches about?

So it’s a whole range of things that we’re taking.

Kenny: Yes, well, when we say we have zero risk policy, there’s always going to be a risk. It’s just a matter of minimising that risk. So you go to the companies that you trust, you go to Australian made you go to… There’s a checklist of so many things that you can do to try and minimise that risk. Zero risk — but that zero risk comes onto the athletes responsibility as well.

And if you’re still living at home and still with the parents, there’s a responsibility for the parents to help that — no parent of a child that does sport, wants to make them inadvertently go positive on a drug test.

Jane: On a drug test. Yeah.

Kenny: So, there’s a responsibility for the parents. There’s a responsibility for the coaches. There is responsibility for the team. It fans out massively. But ultimately, the athletes educated on what goes into your body is your own responsibility.

Mac: That’s a really good point, mate.

Kenny: Ultimately at the end of the day, we are the ones responsible. So we have to… I look at the drink bottles and I see all that, or I’m not going to go down and buy a protein bar from somewhere else that hasn’t been tested. Or I’m not going to go down to the cafe. Like every cafe down the road’s doing a healthy protein shake. So yeah, it’s something called that and they look beautiful. Some of the other ingredients that you see going in it, but you just don’t know where it’s come from.

Jane: Yeah.

Mac: The accountability to what goes in your mouth is fundamental to the whole thing and that’s where we’ve had cases in this country where they have been…

We talked about the darkest day in Australian sport.

Greg: That’s the first one, not the second.

Mac: The first one. Yeah.

So, that’s not an example of inadvertent doping. I wouldn’t suggest it. That’s a different kettle of fish.

But fundamentally it makes the point. Be that as it may, every individual within any organisation, if you’re subject to testing with WADA or ASADA, you’re responsible. So education is key and it’s about information. Information is power. And just awareness. And the information sources, you have to rely on.

If you’re playing for a team or if you’re under IOS umbrella or whatever it might be, then you need to be conscious as an athlete that you’re asking the right questions of the right people, and getting your information from that reputable source rather than Dr Google

Greg: How much education is there out there for you? I know like there’s just the ASADA has just launched their app, which is great.

Jane: App. Yeah. Which is great.

Kenny: We’ve been educated about it since the moment I stepped foot into our sport and the moment I stepped foot into a national organisation. And originally, when you’re younger, you kind of just go — yeah, whatever, drugs in sport — you don’t really think too much about it. And then you start to see the headlines of athletes, Olympian or Olympic gold medalists or comm games gold medalists. Whatever they are, footy stars, all these people. And their reputation. And everything’s just squashed in the moment that they go positive for a test.

Now that’s not to say every athlete or every footy player, or everyone that’s been done for a positive test has deliberately taken a performance enhancing drug. As we were talking before about the percentage of performance enhancing drugs that aren’t maybe criminally recognise drugs. There’s some of these drugs are something like that you can buy over the counter at chemists. These are something that you can get at the cafe.

Greg: They’re not traditionally illegal.

Kenny: A lot of people think a drug in sport, they think of a needle going into an arm and then that’s it. It’s not. I guess my struggle is now are something that you would take orally inadvertently.

Greg: Especially brands country to country, too, you know, formulas change for different countries.

Mac: Cold-flu medications, simple cough syrups, things like that.

Kenny: Yeah. It’s everything. So for us as an athlete, when we travel, we take everything that we have bought here in Australia. We don’t take anything out overseas, we take big medical bags and our sport takes big medical bags with everything in it that we could — everything down to the cough and flu tablets, the whole lot, the nose sprays to try and clear us out after we’ve traveled for a long period of time. Everything’s done a shine.

But we also check, there are websites available on in there. One’s called, and ASADA uses, globaldro.

Jane: GlobalDRO. Yeah.

Greg: What was that again? Can you say again?

Kenny: “Global Dro”

Jane: Global-D-R-O.

Kenny: Yeah, so every parent, everyone that… Everything that I do now, even if I get told — OK, this is OK to take — I go through this globaldro website, check it, put the name of it in, it comes up, yep, sweat done. And it will come up. Whether it’s in-competition or out-of-competition testing.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: You get to the little green ticks. Sorted. Sweet. I can take that. Even if I’m out of competition and see something there, I don’t risk it. It’s… I don’t want to know about it.

Greg: I think when you analyze down to the actual performance benefit of a lot of these things, it’s mental.

Kenny: It’s not worth it.

Jane: Well there’s… If you look at the in-competition versus out-of-competition drugs that they look for, the main out-of-competition drugs that therefore they’re saying have effect long-term are things like your steroids. So your anabolic. So they’re saying this is banned all the time because you’re going to take it and it’s having an effect that builds and is over time and gives you that edge.

Most of the ones that have been in-competition are shorter acting. So again that comes to your point about being tested more often. So they are the stimulants. They are the things that are around the amphetamines group. So some of those, as you say — cold and Flu Medication? It’s got pseudoephedrine in it. That’s an example. Another one that you see often in the WADA list is methylphenidate, which is Ritalin. So that’s a prescription medication that people abuse in sport to give them that edge.

So you’ve got a whole lot of medication that’s actually legal but not legal for use as a performance enhancing agent. And maldonium was a good example of that. They said we think this is being misused. So when they started testing athletes and had it on the watch list and saw it coming up, then they banned it and then there were 500 or more in doping violations.

Kenny: So you’re talking about like a steroid there. Now, at the moment, if somebody goes down for steroids, they’re banned for four years?

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: — now. What are the effects of… So I raced a lot of guys that have been done for a drug, or used to race, a lot of guys that had been done for a drug, and they may have been on a steroid, went ten years ago. They had had that doping ban, that got done for four years, but they may have been on the steroid for two years. So how has that developed their body? They’ve gotten stronger, quicker, faster, everything when they’re younger. They’ve served their ban. And now, I’m still OK to race these guys? But even though they’re…

Greg: That’s probably one for you, Mac. Let’s be honest.

Kenny: Like, it’s…

Mac: Oh, there’s no question. The long-term benefits remain, perhaps not to the same degree. But as that scenario that Ken mentioned, the residual effect or the long-term effect of the increase in muscle mass, etc remains.

So I think there’s a long discussion around, I suppose, the ethical component of that. And, does that make it a fair playing field after four years?

Kenny: Does that mean people should get lifetime bans? If they get done for a steroid?

Greg: He’s not going anywhere near that. [laughs]

Mac: I mean, my opinion doesn’t really matter. But the answer to the question “is there a residual effect?” and the answer is, yeah. Absolutely there is.

Kenny: Yeah.

Mac: I don’t have the answer to your question, but it’s a good question.

Kenny: And I don’t think anyone will have the answer to that question, because everyone would have an opinion on this.

Greg: If you ask me. That’s not a hard question. That’s not a hard question to answer I think.

Kenny: If you get done for this drug — OK, you’re a lifetime ban, sorry, you have deliberately taken this drug to better perform, sorry, that’s not good enough, lifetime ban — done. No argument.

Jane: So if you get inadvertent contamination…

Kenny: Yeah. So this is the…

Jane: — talking earlier. They do tend to have a lower period of suspension. If they can prove. So it comes back to them saying — I took this inadvertently, here are all my records, I knew what I was taking, this is what we thought was under control and then turns out not to have been — and you see cases where they’ve been reduced their ban to sometimes less than 12 months.

Now, that’s also then becomes a reputational risk for some of the suppliers because, are we having athletes who immediately say, oh, it must be the supplements.

So one of the reasons that it’s good for us to test for legitimate manufacturers is we’re protecting the brand as well. So they’ve got a record of testing. They know what’s gone into their product. They’re taking that extra step of testing their product to safeguard both the athletes using their products and also their own reputation.

Greg: And it’s massive for us.

Jane: It’s a really big commitment.

Kenny: To me as an athlete, it’s…

Jane, I see you as the insurance policy.

Jane: [laughs]

Kenny: This is what I…

Greg: I’m sure your boss likes that statement.

[laughter]

Kenny: I’ve been with body science since 2001. I’m actually part of the furniture in here.

Jane: The original family. [laughs]

Kenny: Oh yeah.

I’ve been tested hundreds and hundreds of times whilst using my Body Science supplements. So I trust the brand. I trust the processes that they’ve gone through. They understand the risks, that I’m taking that, every athlete’s taking using any supplement.

So to go that extra step…

Jane: Yeah. It’s really important.

Kenny: It’s really important. And for me it’s just a massive ticking the box there.

Jane: It’s interesting that ASADA has officially recognised that now. Because if you look at a lot of their work in the past, they’ve said to athletes — just don’t take them.

Kenny: Yeah. “Don’t take any supplements.”

Jane: Don’t take any supplements at all. Right?

And there’s a change in their language now to say — we still don’t recommend you take supplements, but if you do take a supplement, take a tested supplement — and then within then developing this app, what they’re giving you access to, a bit like your GlobalDRO, is the supplement checker which says which of these have actually been independently tested.

So to your point, they’re saying, there’s a risk but these are the lowest risk, and that’s the people we want to work with because we want to show that their products are low risk.

Kenny: Again. Minimising the risk.

Jane: You’re minimising the risk. So it’s about good records, good reputation, really ticking all those boxes before you take something.

Greg: People aren’t going to like what I’m about to say, but I think anyone who’s in formulated sports foods or supplements should be tested. Like if you want to be in that category and play in that world, just to make life easy, you got to pay for testing. That’s just the bottom line. If people invest, the athlete wins.

Jane: And it is complex and it is expensive testing.

Greg: Oh, it is.

Jane: — there’s no two ways about that, because you’re looking for so many different drugs. So you can’t just run one test through one machine and say, yep, it’s all good. You’re actually doing multiple extracts and looking for all of those different drugs, and that takes time and it takes expertise to make sure that they’re not there.

Kenny: It’s not cheap for a company to do.

Jane: No.

Greg: It’s not just the cost of the actual testing though, I mean, we can’t sell our product until you say yes.

Jane: That’s right.

Greg: And occasionally that can cause headaches. But… Big headaches. But…

People don’t even know that, you know? And it takes about 14 days on a good day to test the product?

Jane: Yeah. Ten working days. And more if we have any issues with… Often it’s the actual complexity of the product. Because as we were saying, you’re not dealing with like urine and blood, which are nice consistent matrices to work with in a laboratory. You’re dealing with everything from Muesli bars to whey protein, to fish oil, to all of those things. So you have to have a whole series of methods that allow you to extract the drugs from those products. And that’s where our expertise comes in.

Mac: In the industry, that trickles down to the end user of the supplement. For example, anyone can start a supplement company.

Greg: Absolutely.

Mac: I mean, how many supplement companies are there even in Australia. It’s an incredibly saturated market. We could do it right now, probably in five minutes. We can set up a company, we can find a manufacturer down the road, and we could probably have a product on the shelf in five minutes. You know, it’s not a difficult process to do.

Certainly there are sports that are subject to testing, and then there are the other end user who is not subject to testing, and perhaps it’s not a priority in their life whether or not a product is or isn’t got a contaminated substance in it. So I think it just becomes very complicated then for companies who are trying to do the right thing, or more correctly, are doing the right thing, versus those that say, well, you know what, that’s only a market, don’t really care, we’re not going to worry about it. And I think there’s a lot of that going on.

I don’t know how many you know, have the stats on the number of supplement companies in this country who are participating in testing with an organisation like yourself. I would expect it’s pretty low. I would expect it to really low.

Jane: It is. Yeah.

Mac: But I think, leading off from your point, if you want to be a provider to the athletic industry, the sports industry, then I think testing should be mandatory.

Greg: We’re not the ones who said we’re a formulated sports food. That’s a government body, and if you want to play in that game, you should play in the game.

Mac: That’s right. Exactly. Yeah. Because at the moment I don’t think the education has trickled down as well as it could. I think the education policies by the professional sporting leagues like the AFLs and the NRLs, they have great education processes in place for grassroots, right through, and they should be commended for that. They do a really good job of it.

But again, I come back to the industry that is not necessarily afforded that education, don’t know really where to get good information, and so they might go — well, you know, product A, it’s a little bit cheaper, I’m going to go with that one.

Greg: Protein’s just protein.

Mac: — protein’s just protein — and protein is not just protein. Just like a calorie is not a calorie. You know.

It’s complicated. And so, as I say, I keep coming back to this. It’s a complicated story, but I think the more good information, sound information, reputable information that can be provided, the better.

Greg: I don’t think people actually understand how high level risk it actually is.

Jane: So there’s very different stats. If you look at testing what we would consider high risk supplements, like just going on the Internet. When we first set up in 2015, we did a big survey and we got 16, 20 percent positive if we just bought supplements online.

Greg: 20 percent positive.

Jane: — and off the shelf. And the more —

Mac: I remember the study. There was a study.

Jane: — yeah. The more extreme the name is, I’d have to say, the more likely it is to come up positive. So that’s one of our tips.

And there was a really good Dutch study. And they just looked, they said — look, we run a scheme like HASTA and like Inform Sport — where we test for legitimate manufacturers, and we have a really low hit rate. And we’ve got a similar experience if we’re dealing with legitimate manufacturer is the contamination rate.

So you’re looking at supply chain breakdowns or contaminated brew ingredient that never then gets to the athlete — and it’s less than one percent. Certainly less than five percent over time.

If you go out and buy things just straight off the shelf, particularly in groups like pre-workouts, testosterone boosters, all of those sorts of things, you get positive rates that just go up over 20 percent.

Greg: — all the test-boosters on the market

Jane: There are two very different markets. And I think, to your point, because it’s such a growth industry and there’s this big crossover now between sport and health and fitness —

Greg: And diet.

Jane: — and diet, and… If you look one of the most popular drugs still and that people get pinged for his clenbuterol. Well it’s very popular in gyms and shredding, and that whole market.

Greg: You guys would be good at testing for that too, wouldn’t you? You’d be good at testing for that, wouldn’t you? What’s its true use?

Jane: It’s a non-anabolic steroid.

Mac: So Jane, what are you seeing in terms of some of the stats around different sports and what different products? What are some of the common substances that are coming up?

Jane: Well, if we look at Australia last year — and ASADA put out a specific warning about this — the two things that they saw a particular growth in that athletes felt were coming from supplements were higenamine, and DMBA.

DMBA is a stimulant, like DMAA. It’s now actually banned in Australia. The TGAs made it an illegal substance, but it was coming through in a lot of supplements, particularly, as we were saying before, pre-workouts as a stimulant.

Mac: Yep.

Jane: Now that’s not inadvertent contamination, that’s a manufacturer putting something in that they think that their users want and want that edge. And then drug-tested athletes are taking that without understanding what it says on the label.

And some of that is the use of terms that people think sound natural. So DMBA has often been shown as pouchong tea extract. It’s not pouchong tea extract. It’s a synthetic stimulant.

Kenny: Does it sound bad that I have no idea what you’re talking about? That the names of the these drugs, I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Because as an athlete, we don’t even get to that part.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: If you’re…

Greg: Yeah, but you need to understand, like, an athlete walks into a store and goes — I want your best pre-workout.

Kenny: Like just a simple line, and that’s where that type of thing comes across?

Greg: Yeah. So…

Jane: And it says pouchong tea extract, and you go — oh, that must be alright.

Greg: Tea.

Kenny: Yeah. It’s tea. It might be alright.

Jane: That’s alright. It’s green tea. That’s all popular. That’ll be fine.

Greg: That tea.

Jane: — but actually it’s a high level stimulant.

Mac: You know what. That’s interesting, Kenny. But the market that I deal with, the physique industry, they are all over it. So they know exactly what it is. And they look for it. They look for it.

And with some of the DM-double-As and some of those stimulants, they were in a lot of products at a time when they weren’t banned.

Jane: That’s right.

Mac: And so…

Jane: And they’ve had to be taken off the market.

Mac: And that’s great. Yeah. And so it’s an evolving landscape.

Jane: Yeah. So that’s a risk — not reading the label properly or not understanding what’s on the label — because they do try and disguise some of those.

The other thing that we see is actual inadvertent contamination, and that’s where you have a supply chain break down. Now, those tend to be much less interesting stimulants like ephedrine or pseudoephedrine that might come through a herbal mix, particularly with some of those — the complimentary medicines that sit alongside that whole supplement market. So you might get a contaminated raw material that comes through with those. That’s a lower level stimulant, but it’s still going to get an athlete into trouble.

And that’s the sort of thing that you’d see in a legitimate manufacturer who’s actually had something come through inadvertently in a raw material and we stop that before it’s released to an athlete.

The ones with high levels of things like higenamine or DMAA, they were supplements that were built that way for a particular market.

So again, in terms of an athlete, it’s actually knowing where you sit and knowing what to check, and that’s why having tested supplements and things like the ASADA app that now allows you to check for those should actually help reduce your risk.

Greg: You can actually check a batch on that, which is great. That’s what it’s all about. It’s not just what’s in the ingredient panel, it’s down to batch level.

Mac: Yeah.

Kenny: But, at the moment, now, any supplement that we take, everyone’s got to find these days. I take a photo of it. Take the photo of the batch number. Done. And it’s in there. I don’t think twice about it anymore.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: I see that it’s HASTA-tested. Great. Take the supplement. But I’ve always got it on record…

Greg: Absolutely.

Kenny: — what the name of it is…

Greg: OSI Number

Kenny: — the batch number that it is. Again, the athlete responsibility.

Greg: What are some of the biggest sports that are in trouble these days with doping? And we’re working off an official list here, aren’t we?

Jane: [laughs] Yeah.

Greg: Yeah, it’s not like we made this up to sound good.

Mac: [laughs]

Jane: In Australia… I’ll put the drugs internationally, but the Australian ones in terms of…

Mac: By way of just a general comment, I think that while the risk is there, if you’re following a food-first policy, with some supplemental products, proteins and that sort of thing, I think you risk… By going with a reputable brands, like the Body Science brand, I think your risk is incredibly low.

If you want to go off the reservation — and that’s I think when we see a lot of the positive doping findings we’ve seen… Certainly I’ve worked with teams that have had athletes that have had adverse findings. They’ve gone off the reservation, they’ve gone outside of the scope or outside of the recommendations of the organisation and they’ve made some decisions off their own bat on what they think they can perhaps do, they want to push the envelope, and they usually, the cases that I’ve seen have been, they’d received poor information from non-reputable sources that thought they would get a quick fix, maybe coming back from an injury, or performance enhancing, whatever it might be, and it’s been on bad information.

And Ken makes a good point with the photographing of a product and the batch number. I do the same thing. As a strength conditioning coach, certainly keep meticulous records and photographic evidence and so on and so forth.

I know if I’ve got a squad of 48 players, and one player has a positive outcome, and he or she turned around and says, oh, it was in the protein — I know it’s garbage, from the minute that that comes to light. Because I know, well, 47 other people took it, they were all tested and they’re all fine.

So it’s about risk mitigation for the company. It’s about risk mitigation for the organisation, the strength conditioning, the athlete, and downstream from there. There will always be people who want to push the envelope. And it’s a bit about having your ducks in a row to try to become that really.

Jane: Certainly those sports were weight and muscle is important, are still the ones that you see coming up more often. So they’re the ones where you’re more likely to see use of steroids, anabolic or non-anabolic, like clenbuterol ostarine, we’re seeing more of.

So those sports where that real muscle building and they’re trying to get an edge, or as you say maybe someone’s had an injury and then coming back and trying to get back quickly, and because it’s banned in and out of competition and it has that longterm effect we talked about before, those sports certainly seem to be overrepresented in terms of positive doping offenses.

Mac: I think with a potential risk in the mainstream, I think it’s pretty hard to have an accidental positive doping test for an anabolic, or an androgen. It’s pretty hard to have a positive test for testosterone or stanozolol or any of those products.

Let’s be serious. I mean, stimulants that might appear in pre-workouts and thermogenics — absolutely, I can see where there could be capacity for some error there. But it’s pretty hard to have an accidental test for — if you’ve got 20 times the level of testosterone in your system, that’s an awful lot of contaminated something from somewhere.

Jane: Yeah.

Greg: It’s a big drink. [laughs]

Mac: That’s a lot of contaminated lean pork from somewhere. Yeah — I don’t know. But, sorry, I interrupted, Jane. But I agree. I think where muscle mass is a key, where body composition is an issue, where force, power, high speed, explosiveness, endurance — those upper ends of the spectrum in terms of performance capabilities — there’s always going to be. And big bucks. We’re talking, big careers, big bucks. And we’re seeing this filter into some of the less orthodox sports, into the crossfits of the world, and we’ve seen some positive findings there — I don’t think I’m dropping any bombs there — at the racing and crossfit games in the US there was a…

Greg: Good on them for testing.

Mac: Absolutely. Fantastic that they’re really conscious about it. It’s become a massive phenomenon and there’s big dollars on the line, and a credit to them for having a policy in place.

Greg: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Wow, silence. That’s really good.

Mac: No. Silence is bad.

The travel’s a big one, international travel. Kenny, I’m sure there’s been places in Poland and probably Belgium and everywhere that — you probably got to put padlocks on the system, and on the fridges and all that sort of stuff as you go around the place.

Kenny: Within the sporting community. It’s funny, everyone knows somebody that we think that that person might be on drugs, or we think that that person, because you can see that how they’ve progressed through their sporting career, their — haven’t really performed, haven’t really performed — the next year they’re massive and they all of a sudden win medals, so you kind of go…

Jane: Yeah — what happened there?

Kenny: Where, something’s happened somewhere, in and around there.

And we always hear stories of people putting something else in somebody’s drink bottle and…

Jane: Yeah. Tampering. What do you think the actual incidence of tampering is? Because that’s often used as a defense. They say it must’ve been tampering. [inaudible]

Kenny: Must’ve been tampered with. Somebody just put something in my drink bottle.

Mac: Do you have an opinion? What do you think, Kenny?

Kenny: Wherever it can happen.

Mac: No, no, no, I know it can happen. I’m interested in, do we think it happens much?

Kenny: There was a case in Japan just recently where I know about it because it was within my sport. Another paddler put something else and he admitted to it — put something else into another person’s drink bottle or food. And then that person tested positive. In the end, this other guy admitted to it saying, yeah, so it was me.

Now, this made national news. There was Japanese TV stations ringing me up here in Australia trying to get a comment for it. To me, I don’t want to know about it. I do not want to know about the drugs testing. I want to line up on the start line and then go, you know what? Everyone here, they’ve done the hard work. They’ve trained as hard as they can and let’s just race. As long as it’s fair and clean, I don’t care. Let’s just see who can get there fast down the end.

If I get beaten by somebody that’s taken drugs, it’s a nothing race. It’s let down.

Greg: Yeah. Absolutely.

Kenny: And the hard part is we might not find that out for…

Jane: Two years. Yeah.

Kenny: Or the next eight years, because they now hold onto our samples, our urine and blood samples for 10 years. So shared talent. Four years later.

A race walker got silver in London at the time, got silver in London in 2015-16. They announced him as the Olympic gold medalist.

Greg: Yeah. It’s a tough gig

Kenny: Because you get the recognition that the Olympics. Well, the athletes might not go, oh, I’ve missed out on that recognition. It’s the — I’ve raced a drug cheat.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: And I’m sure within his sport that — yeah, that’s just one story. I’m sure there’s hundreds of stories.

Greg: So let’s, off athletes, let’s talk about just standard workplace testing.

Jane: Oh, we do workplace testing as well. We don’t do athletes, as I said before — that’s done by the WADA lab in each country. But we certainly do workplace testing because that’s another area where people have the accountability. And different workplaces have different requirements. It’s a bit like football teams, different workplaces have different doping policies.

So we certainly do drug testing of urine and oral fluid predominantly for workplaces. It’s high risk workplaces where you can’t be on stimulants or alcohol or other drugs can affect your performance.

Kenny: Operating big machinery.

Jane: Machinery, construction, pilots. Obviously there’s different professions where they’ve got a no-drugs policy particularly for elicit. So if you think of customs or federal police, people who could be compromised.

So across Australia there’s a lot of workplace drug testing that’s done as well, so it’s not just the athletes who have to line up and give your urine sample, it’s lots of workplaces that have a doping policy as well.

And we certainly see changes in that profile as well, because obviously it’s fairly well known that there’s an increase in amphetamine and ice usage and probably we see a decrease in THC or cannabis. Changing the balance. And codeine is interesting now because codeine has now become prescription-only in Australia. So there’s a lot of codeine use in Australia. That’s one of the reasons they felt it was overused here. And we’re seeing a shift now. So it’ll be interesting to see how normal, workplace drug testing is, because that’s one of the things that picks up is codeine, and people have usually said, oh, I’ve just had a cold and flu tablet. So now that will be, in effect, the workplace equivalent of a therapeutic use exemption is to say “I have a prescription for this medication.”

So yeah, it is important to drug tests, not just in sport but across a range of different professions.

Greg: So this could be a really silly question, but I’ve got heaps of them.

Say, codeine suddenly come up on the list of things you need to look for. What does that mean for your organization? As far as timing to come to market standards, testing, equipment?

Jane: If we add in a drug, to like, so if they say —

Greg: Yeah. Something new.

Jane: — some new supplements.

Well, meldonium was a good example of that. So for us it’s a matter of making sure we’ve got the right drug standard and then validating that for our method. So in chemistry, it’s all about validating the methods that you’re using and being able to provide the data to an assessor to show that your method works.

So say we take your protein powder. The first time we test that, we quite literally put all 200 and something drugs in little standards into that product and make sure we can get them out again.

Greg: for the market, mate.

Jane: Sometimes… [laughs]

Jane: Yeah. So, because you’ve got to show…

Greg: So, all 288 of them.

Jane: Yeah. Because what happens is, sometimes you get something in the product that suppresses our ability to extract that drug again. So not every supplement is actually suitable for this sort of drug testing. Or it’s really difficult to get all of those drugs out. So we put them in and we make sure that we can see those standards come back out again.

And then when we run your products, we know that if something comes up as a peak that, that it’s real. So it’s all about validation and data and having that data set that supports your certificate. So that certificate, which says, “not detected,” there’s a lot of work that goes in behind it.

Greg: Absolutely.

Kenny: It’s a big process.

Jane: And we review those. So, WADA publishes their new list in September each year. And so they say, this is the list for next year, effective January 1. And they also publish a list of major modifications. And that’s a really useful guide to what’s changed, why they’re interpreted things differently, some things that they’ve set levels for that there might be changing.

So we really need to review that on an annual basis and let people like yourself, our good clients know what’s changed. If something comes onto the list that wasn’t there before, we need to make sure that we’ve got a standard for that and then we can detect it and make sure we can pick it up in product.

Greg: Incredible.

Jane: So, that set process.

Greg: Massive.

We actually, for those people don’t know, we do put our certificates up on our website, bodyscience.com.au/drugtest. If it’s not that, it will be that tomorrow. [laughter] So you can actually look at the batch on your label and you can print out the — what do you call it?

Jane: Certificate of analysis. Drug Testing Certificate.

Greg: Thank you.

Jane: And they’re also on our website. So HASTA has got the products that are certified. We list them with the flavor and batch and expiry date on our website. We do independent testing as well for people who don’t certify a product. So maybe that’s a distinction that you need to understand.

Greg: We do two types with you.

Jane: Yeah.

Greg: We have our batch. Every batch is tested. Then we have our products we make that we think athletes won’t be into. And when you launch them, you find out you’re very incorrect in your market research into athletes want to use. So we have a lot of random programs going on. We’ve got a flavor of a product tested at all times. You just don’t get to pick your flavor.

Jane: So if a company certifies a product, it’s a big commitment on their part. So to certify a product, it’s not just tested. We look at where it’s manufactured. We make sure that we verify the controls are in place in that manufacturing plant. We review the formulation. Then we do extra work in terms of validating the product, and then we make them test every single batch.

So a certified product is actually a much more stringent set of criteria, and every batch is then tested and that’s when they can use the logo on pack.

Batch testing means that someone sent us a sample from a batch. Still a good thing, but not the same as that whole more controlled process of certifying.

And what we find increasingly is manufacturers, and you say, have a product that they really don’t feel is targeted at that elite market and is a mass production product, which is going to send them broken down to test every batch, so they might just test a particular flavor and supply that to a team.

And we also see more often now, in fact, we do a lot of independent testing for teams and clubs and sporting bodies who want to supply to their team that’s not tested. So they’ll then send us a batch and say, alright, we’d like to use this without our team. It’s not tested by the manufacturer. Can you test this batch?

Greg: We do that with a lot of teams, actually, with you. And I appreciate that. You get somebody who wants a special fiber protein bar who’s an elite athlete, so they have to test the whole batch.

There is a lot of teams that do test.

Jane: And we see an increasing range of products coming through. And again, that whole market around complimentary medicines and where that sits in terms of supplements, so not your standard formula and supplementary sports foods, but capsules and tablets and other things. And some of those we have real difficulties testing. We might not be able to get all the steroids out of some of those really oily products. And that’s what we’ll tell the team or the dietitian or the strength and conditioning coaches go — we’ve tested this but we can’t get every drug that we would like to, to extract out of it. So you still have an element of risk.

Greg: It’s been an eyeopener for us. Like, our multivitamin, for example, was tested and then we had a batch that actually said no. So we couldn’t sell that batch. And it takes months to make that vitamin tablet, just so you know. But then we had the process of actually trying to break down what was it that caused it. It was massive for us.

So now that product is tested batch by batch. We test it, if you say it passed, it passed, if it doesn’t…

Jane: It doesn’t…

Greg: — that’s what we tell people. We actually took the HASTA logo off that product.

Jane: And I think you’ll find if you go through the ASADA supplement checker, it’s got a little quiz which says these are the things you should look for. And one of them is products with a lot of ingredients. Because the more ingredients you have, the more potential supply chain issues you have. And the more herbal products, which again, hard to verify the come from multiple sources offshore. So that raw ingredient risk is there.

Greg: Supply chain was just…

Jane: — in terms of those things.

Mac: Proprietary blends.

Jane: — proprietary blends can be an issue.

Greg: Massive fan of those. Big fan of proprietary blends.

Mac: Tongue in cheek.

Greg: [laughs] You won’t see one on our product.

Mac: No. I don’t think you should be allowed to do it. I think that you shouldn’t have to list the ingredients and the amounts of each ingredient. But it’s commonplace.

Greg: Well it’s different manufacturing standards from different countries, so that’s what it is.

Jane: Well in the US, supplements are not counted as either a food or medicine. So the FDA has drugs, food, dietary supplements. So they actually come under a different regulatory authority or part of that regulatory authority. Whereas here they’re either a food or medicine. And they regulated either by food standards code or TGA. So our regulations here on both those categories are actually stricter.

Greg: We run both types too. It’s quite difficult times.

Jane: Yeah, it is.

Greg: But the multivitamin, stepping back to that, that was a headache. It was a massive headache and that’s where we said to ourself, do we stop making our multivitamins? Because we didn’t release that batch. We destroyed it. The one that got the test. Because our program at the time was to — it’s either yes or no. So that’s what where we sat down and we had a good chat on it, and the theory was it’s just too hard.

So we still want to bring a multi out, so we test it before we release it. And then if that says yes, we’ll tell people they can check this out on the web. The next batch is no guarantee, and people need to be really aware of that.

That’s like when every time athletes walk in, our team is trying to go — you’re an athlete, aren’t you?

So we asked the second question ourself. That’s a big thing.

Kenny: What are some of the side effects of performance enhancing drugs that, people think — oh, OK, well I’m in a sport that doesn’t get tested, it’s OK, I’ll just buy whatever supplement off the internet because it’s cheaper.

What are the benefits of people actually going to a supplement that is third party tested? Because what are some of the side effects of some performance enhancing drugs?

Mac: Oh, mate, that’s as a big question. Well, I think when it comes to the sort of products that would bring about a positive doping test, with anything, with any drug — all drugs, whether it’s across the androgen spectrum, anabolics, whatever — there are clinical uses for all of those substances.

So I look at it as use, misuse and abuse, in terms of the categorization of that.

Liken it, if you abuse alcohol for your entire life, you will end up most likely with a liver problem. Nicotine, over the counter drugs, whatever — long term misuse of products will result in a whole range of adverse health outcomes. There’s no question, there are products that are banned substances, and I’m talking about anabolics here and testosterones, and all these sorts of things, have genuine use from a hormone replacement perspective for men and women.

Jane: Therapeutic use.

Mac: I’m talking clean. Absolutely there’s uses. And used correctly, the side effects are minimized. Absolutely, categorically.

If you go off the reservation and you want to take triple the amount or ten times the amount, well there’ll be a knock on effect to that.

So side effects-wise, I think… Well, my opinion is from a clinical perspective, I think there’s a lot of hysteria around the use of — for example, testosterone — I think low testosterone in men is a massive clinical condition in this country and around the world, for particularly men over 40 years of age who don’t know they have testosterone levels through the floor.

The risk of actually having poorer outcomes from a cardiovascular perspective with low testosterone, equal — and I’m on a bit of a rant — but parallel issues with high cholesterol and all of these other things we all know about it. And most men walk around, don’t even know they’ve got low testosterone in their forties and fifties. But they’re not subject to sport testing.

Kenny: But this is something where they’ll go to their GP

Mac: Well, GPs may or may not be much use to them. They’ll probably have to go to someone who specialises in hormones, an endocrinologist or someone.

Kenny: OK.

Mac: But the side effects can be dire. In terms of quantified research that absolutely slam dunks the adverse health risks to the longterm use, it’s actually pretty slim. There’s a lot of what we call anecdotal, urban myth perhaps, around what it could do.

If you think about the fact that these products have to metabolise by the liver, then the liver is going to cop it ultimately. So the risk of increased liver functions and poorer outcomes, long term, fatty liver disease, and a whole lot of things — absolutely.

So the side effects can be significant on health. But it’s hard to say. Certainly you can’t say — if you take a course of this product, you might end up with this outcome. It’s really broad. And it depends a lot on what the product is.

Kenny: I guess at the end of the day, somebody that’s — not even in a sport — somebody that’s feeling a bit down, they go to work every day, they work long hours. They probably don’t eat much during lunch breaks or they don’t eat enough, they’re still better off with a tested supplement.

Mac: Yeah, no question.

Kenny: — than not. Instead of just going on the Internet, I’ll buy the cheaper one — let’s get the one that’s third-party tested, or a reputable brand, they’re still better off with that than probably something …

Mac: Oh, no question. Because I think one lends itself to the other around the quality of the ingredients. I think that the companies who are diligent with respect to the testing for the doping, are the types of companies who are going to be diligent around the ingredients that are in their products.

So it goes hand in hand in terms of those quality ingredients. You want good quality ingredients in your products. Who do I go to? I go to a company that has a policy and is diligent around supply chains and the quality of my ingredients. At least it’s the ingredients on the label.

Jane: Correct ones. No made up names. [laughs] Yeah.

Mac: Absolutely.

— and no proprietary blends.

For those that are listening that maybe don’t know what that is, there are companies that, on the label, it will just say —

Greg: 5,000 milligrams.

Mac: — 5,000 milligrams of “Billy’s Thermogenic Mix” or something like that.

Jane: Yeah.

Mac: And then it’ll have —

Jane: Proprietary blend.

Mac: Proprietary blend underneath it.

So what it doesn’t tell you is that nuts and bolts of every single product that’s in there and the amounts of those. That lends itself to a conversation around clinical dose, clinically effective dose.

Greg: Absolutely.

Mac: — around, particularly, beta-alanines, and some of those where — there might be a small amount of these products in the ingredients in the product, but nowhere near enough to have any benefit. So it’s kind of like, oh, we’ll sprinkle it in — because the person reads the label —

Jane: And it sounds good, and… Yeah.

Mac: Sounds great. And they go — has it got this in it? — check, check, check. Oh, yeah, but it’s one tenth of what would have a benefit. So there’s a lot of that going on.

But your answer’s correct, basically.

Kenny: I guess the point that I was getting to, is, you don’t have to be Olympic standard athlete, you don’t have to be a high performance athlete to want to take…

Jane: It’s safer.

Kenny: — the safer supplement.

Mac: Oh, absolutely.

Jane: One of the reasons the TGA banned it, is because in high doses, it’s led to cardiac arrest and death. So there’s your side effect — death.

So probably not what you want from a pre-workout. So that whole class has been banned on health reasons. And that was definitely, when the withdrawal notices, there was a number of products that were readily available in Australia that had that chemical in them. So that’s been withdrawn for health reasons.

Kenny: So again, don’t have to be an athlete.

Jane: Nope.

Kenny: Don’t have to be competing or training every day. You can be a Joe Blow that turns up to work every day and works his long hours.

Jane: Works out regularly, and wants to have that good workout stimulant.

Kenny: — and just needs the good zone.

Jane: Yep. There’s something in there that’s actually quite detrimental to your health.

Greg: Or your employment, like you were saying.

Jane: Or your employment. Well, employee drugs are generally around elicit drugs, and all prescription medication that can affect your performance. So it’s a much more limited list. Athletes got to deal with this huge WADA list of hundreds and hundreds of drugs. Workplaces generally have a much more defined list. So yeah, it’s not as tricky, but it’s still something you’ve got to be very careful of.

Greg: Absolutely.

Well Jane, thank you very much for coming out today. We appreciate that.

Jane: Thank you.

Greg: You guys out in the supplement world that need to certify your products, HASTA is the answer.

Kenny. It’s always fun. Have you got any last words on how you go so fast?

Kenny: I stick to the left hand lane first and then I go to the right one and then I’ll go to the left one again and then I’ll try to do that continually or longer, harder, faster strokes, more persistent.

Greg: I like that. You’d like that as a coach, Mac?

Mac: Yeah. I reckon that would be handy. But the left one in first, then the right one.

Jane: Right one.

Mac: And do it more often and harder than the next person.

Kenny: Yeah. Longer, harder, faster, and more consistently.

Mac: — than the person next to you.

Kenny: Yeah.

Greg: I would hate to be in like a K2 or K4 with you. I don’t think it would be fun at all.

Kenny: [laughs]

Mac: I’d be too scared to fall in the water. They’re not real big. The seats aren’t real big. Right? There’s not a lot of room to move?

Kenny: No. There’s not. They’re as skinny as my hips. I’m like a size 32 at the moment. So…

Greg: I don’t know if Kenny remembers this. He came around one day and he brought it round. And he stood up on the seat, and said, here you go, jump in, I sat on it and went straight in.

Kenny: over the edge.

Mac: Yeah.

Kenny: Yeah, I remember. [laughs]

Greg: I was actually doing a lot of pedaling at that time.

Kenny: For some people, we need like a shoehorn to get them into the seat

It is fun.

Greg: So guys. Thanks for coming along. That’s the last of this. Let’s knock it off.

Mac: Awesome.

Kenny: Thank you.

Jane: Thank you.

Greg: Today’s podcast was brought to you by the new Super Berry Amino BSAA fuel. Stock that in Mr Supplement, Vitamin Empire, Rock Hard supplements. ISN nationally, Sporties Warehouse, or find a retailer at bodyscience.com.au/retailers — with an S.

Episode 6: Safe Supplements syndicated from http://www.bodyscience.com.au/

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borisherrmann · 6 years

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Episode 6: Safe Supplements

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WEBSITES LINKS: https://www.asada.gov.au https://www.globaldro.com https://www.bodyscience.com.au/drugtest

REPORTS: WADA 2016 Anti-Doping Report ASADA Annual Report FY17 Upper limit of the doping risk linked to sports supplements Report

Podcast Transcript

I’m taking a breath, Kenny, and coming back in.

Mac: Maybe she’ll be able to talk during the podcast.

Greg: Yeah. I’ve clocked up more words today than I have in every podcast.

Jane: It’s a record.

Greg: Yeah I know. And it probably will sound terrible, but let’s move on.

Greg: Was.

Mac: I think at one time, you had 100 products didn’t you?

Greg: We were doing a lot of testing.

Mac: Yeah. We were doing a lot of testing and bundling them up, sending him to the UK, and waiting for those to come back, batch by batch, flavor by flavor, the usual routine.

Greg: We were doing a lot of raw material testing, too.

Mac: A lot of raw material testing…

Greg: Once you start that program, you start creating new formula as well, when you use new suppliers.

Jane: Testing ingredients.

Greg: Yeah. And the number of positive ones we got was actually scary.

Mac: Yeah. There were a few came back with a few alarm bells with various ingredients. I can’t remember what they were.

Greg: Supply channels…

Mac: The supply channels were the issue. Absolutely. But it was uncharted territory. And it’s evolved significantly in the last eight years or so since then. But time flies.

Greg: Thankfully. It’s good to go to sleep at night these days.

Mac: Absolutely.

Greg: So, Jane, let’s start with you. Tell us all about HASTA. Like why would people care that HASTA does what it does?

So for us to then move into supplements, we don’t have a conflict of interest and we can bring that drug testing expertise to testing your supplements.

Greg: OK.

Greg: True.

Kenny, how many drug tests have you done?

Greg: Wow.

Greg: So, Jane, do you want to tell us some of the stats in relation to what’s found from the testing process and what you actually test for and what you do?

Kenny: In competition testing. Out of competition testing.

Greg: Wow.

Greg: There’s no peptides in sport. Is there Mac?

Mac: I don’t think so.

Greg: I didn’t think there was either.

[laughter]

Greg: Thanks for all your input here Mac.

Mac: I’m listening.

Greg: You’ve been unreal. [laughs]

Mac: I’m fine. I’m sitting back. I’m normally doing all the talking. I’m listening.

Greg: I’m quite happy for you to jump in too. You’ve got some good stories to tell.

Mac: No. That’s all good.

Greg: So Ken, you head overseas to Poland.

So we’d spend a lot of time in Europe, basically.

Greg: So, as a team, how do you guys handle the food side, the supplements side, the…

Since the darkest day in Australian sport or whatever it was called — it was a dark day for us, I know that — it’s become such a… Everyone talks about it. Like…

Mac: You’re not talking about the sand paper are you?

Greg: No.

Mac: You’re talking about the other darkest day.

Greg: Wow.

Mac: Is that right?

Greg: He’s a good friend of ours, too, that guy. [laughs]

Mac: Oh, right. Sorry.

[laughter]

Mac: I was trying to contribute.

Greg: No. That was really good.

Mac: Wow.

So at the first steps we take our supplements with us. We don’t risk it. We have a zero tolerance for risk in any way. We try to minimise that.

Greg: So are you walking into a shop and buying a Muesli bar? Or…

Kenny: No, not really.

Greg: You’re not doing anything like that.

Kenny: No.

Ken has a good point. My experience is more so in a national football codes here in Australia, and each one of those has their own anti-doping policy — not “doping policy.” Faux pas.

What I’m saying is, you can only control what happens when they are under your care.

Greg: Yeah. Totally.

Jane: Yeah.

So there’s a lot of working parts to this whole system of nutrition, supplementation, anti-doping. It all comes under one umbrella, really. But it’s complicated.

So it’s a whole range of things that we’re taking.

Jane: On a drug test. Yeah.

Mac: That’s a really good point, mate.

Jane: Yeah.

Mac: The accountability to what goes in your mouth is fundamental to the whole thing and that’s where we’ve had cases in this country where they have been…

We talked about the darkest day in Australian sport.

Greg: That’s the first one, not the second.

Mac: The first one. Yeah.

So, that’s not an example of inadvertent doping. I wouldn’t suggest it. That’s a different kettle of fish.

Greg: How much education is there out there for you? I know like there’s just the ASADA has just launched their app, which is great.

Jane: App. Yeah. Which is great.

Greg: They’re not traditionally illegal.

Greg: Especially brands country to country, too, you know, formulas change for different countries.

Mac: Cold-flu medications, simple cough syrups, things like that.

But we also check, there are websites available on in there. One’s called, and ASADA uses, globaldro.

Jane: GlobalDRO. Yeah.

Greg: What was that again? Can you say again?

Kenny: “Global Dro”

Jane: Global-D-R-O.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: You get to the little green ticks. Sorted. Sweet. I can take that. Even if I’m out of competition and see something there, I don’t risk it. It’s… I don’t want to know about it.

Greg: I think when you analyze down to the actual performance benefit of a lot of these things, it’s mental.

Kenny: It’s not worth it.

Kenny: So you’re talking about like a steroid there. Now, at the moment, if somebody goes down for steroids, they’re banned for four years?

Jane: Yeah.

Greg: That’s probably one for you, Mac. Let’s be honest.

Kenny: Like, it’s…

So I think there’s a long discussion around, I suppose, the ethical component of that. And, does that make it a fair playing field after four years?

Kenny: Does that mean people should get lifetime bans? If they get done for a steroid?

Greg: He’s not going anywhere near that. [laughs]

Mac: I mean, my opinion doesn’t really matter. But the answer to the question “is there a residual effect?” and the answer is, yeah. Absolutely there is.

Kenny: Yeah.

Mac: I don’t have the answer to your question, but it’s a good question.

Kenny: And I don’t think anyone will have the answer to that question, because everyone would have an opinion on this.

Greg: If you ask me. That’s not a hard question. That’s not a hard question to answer I think.

Jane: So if you get inadvertent contamination…

Kenny: Yeah. So this is the…

Now, that’s also then becomes a reputational risk for some of the suppliers because, are we having athletes who immediately say, oh, it must be the supplements.

Greg: And it’s massive for us.

Jane: It’s a really big commitment.

Kenny: To me as an athlete, it’s…

Jane, I see you as the insurance policy.

Jane: [laughs]

Kenny: This is what I…

Greg: I’m sure your boss likes that statement.

[laughter]

Kenny: I’ve been with body science since 2001. I’m actually part of the furniture in here.

Jane: The original family. [laughs]

Kenny: Oh yeah.

So to go that extra step…

Jane: Yeah. It’s really important.

Kenny: It’s really important. And for me it’s just a massive ticking the box there.

Jane: It’s interesting that ASADA has officially recognised that now. Because if you look at a lot of their work in the past, they’ve said to athletes — just don’t take them.

Kenny: Yeah. “Don’t take any supplements.”

Jane: Don’t take any supplements at all. Right?

So to your point, they’re saying, there’s a risk but these are the lowest risk, and that’s the people we want to work with because we want to show that their products are low risk.

Kenny: Again. Minimising the risk.

Jane: You’re minimising the risk. So it’s about good records, good reputation, really ticking all those boxes before you take something.

Jane: And it is complex and it is expensive testing.

Greg: Oh, it is.

Kenny: It’s not cheap for a company to do.

Jane: No.

Greg: It’s not just the cost of the actual testing though, I mean, we can’t sell our product until you say yes.

Jane: That’s right.

Greg: And occasionally that can cause headaches. But… Big headaches. But…

People don’t even know that, you know? And it takes about 14 days on a good day to test the product?

Mac: In the industry, that trickles down to the end user of the supplement. For example, anyone can start a supplement company.

Greg: Absolutely.

Jane: It is. Yeah.

Mac: But I think, leading off from your point, if you want to be a provider to the athletic industry, the sports industry, then I think testing should be mandatory.

Greg: We’re not the ones who said we’re a formulated sports food. That’s a government body, and if you want to play in that game, you should play in the game.

Greg: Protein’s just protein.

Mac: — protein’s just protein — and protein is not just protein. Just like a calorie is not a calorie. You know.

Greg: I don’t think people actually understand how high level risk it actually is.

Greg: 20 percent positive.

Jane: — and off the shelf. And the more —

Mac: I remember the study. There was a study.

Jane: — yeah. The more extreme the name is, I’d have to say, the more likely it is to come up positive. So that’s one of our tips.

So you’re looking at supply chain breakdowns or contaminated brew ingredient that never then gets to the athlete — and it’s less than one percent. Certainly less than five percent over time.

Greg: — all the test-boosters on the market

Jane: There are two very different markets. And I think, to your point, because it’s such a growth industry and there’s this big crossover now between sport and health and fitness —

Greg: And diet.

Jane: — and diet, and… If you look one of the most popular drugs still and that people get pinged for his clenbuterol. Well it’s very popular in gyms and shredding, and that whole market.

Greg: You guys would be good at testing for that too, wouldn’t you? You’d be good at testing for that, wouldn’t you? What’s its true use?

Jane: It’s a non-anabolic steroid.

Mac: So Jane, what are you seeing in terms of some of the stats around different sports and what different products? What are some of the common substances that are coming up?

Mac: Yep.

And some of that is the use of terms that people think sound natural. So DMBA has often been shown as pouchong tea extract. It’s not pouchong tea extract. It’s a synthetic stimulant.

Kenny: Does it sound bad that I have no idea what you’re talking about? That the names of the these drugs, I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Because as an athlete, we don’t even get to that part.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: If you’re…

Greg: Yeah, but you need to understand, like, an athlete walks into a store and goes — I want your best pre-workout.

Kenny: Like just a simple line, and that’s where that type of thing comes across?

Greg: Yeah. So…

Jane: And it says pouchong tea extract, and you go — oh, that must be alright.

Greg: Tea.

Kenny: Yeah. It’s tea. It might be alright.

Jane: That’s alright. It’s green tea. That’s all popular. That’ll be fine.

Greg: That tea.

Jane: — but actually it’s a high level stimulant.

Mac: You know what. That’s interesting, Kenny. But the market that I deal with, the physique industry, they are all over it. So they know exactly what it is. And they look for it. They look for it.

And with some of the DM-double-As and some of those stimulants, they were in a lot of products at a time when they weren’t banned.

Jane: That’s right.

Mac: And so…

Jane: And they’ve had to be taken off the market.

Mac: And that’s great. Yeah. And so it’s an evolving landscape.

Jane: Yeah. So that’s a risk — not reading the label properly or not understanding what’s on the label — because they do try and disguise some of those.

The ones with high levels of things like higenamine or DMAA, they were supplements that were built that way for a particular market.

Greg: You can actually check a batch on that, which is great. That’s what it’s all about. It’s not just what’s in the ingredient panel, it’s down to batch level.

Mac: Yeah.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: I see that it’s HASTA-tested. Great. Take the supplement. But I’ve always got it on record…

Greg: Absolutely.

Kenny: — what the name of it is…

Greg: OSI Number

Kenny: — the batch number that it is. Again, the athlete responsibility.

Greg: What are some of the biggest sports that are in trouble these days with doping? And we’re working off an official list here, aren’t we?

Jane: [laughs] Yeah.

Greg: Yeah, it’s not like we made this up to sound good.

Mac: [laughs]

Jane: In Australia… I’ll put the drugs internationally, but the Australian ones in terms of…

Jane: Yeah.

Greg: It’s a big drink. [laughs]

Greg: Good on them for testing.

Mac: Absolutely. Fantastic that they’re really conscious about it. It’s become a massive phenomenon and there’s big dollars on the line, and a credit to them for having a policy in place.

Greg: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Wow, silence. That’s really good.

Mac: No. Silence is bad.

Jane: Yeah — what happened there?

Kenny: Where, something’s happened somewhere, in and around there.

And we always hear stories of people putting something else in somebody’s drink bottle and…

Jane: Yeah. Tampering. What do you think the actual incidence of tampering is? Because that’s often used as a defense. They say it must’ve been tampering. [inaudible]

Kenny: Must’ve been tampered with. Somebody just put something in my drink bottle.

Mac: Do you have an opinion? What do you think, Kenny?

Kenny: Wherever it can happen.

Mac: No, no, no, I know it can happen. I’m interested in, do we think it happens much?

If I get beaten by somebody that’s taken drugs, it’s a nothing race. It’s let down.

Greg: Yeah. Absolutely.

Kenny: And the hard part is we might not find that out for…

Jane: Two years. Yeah.

Kenny: Or the next eight years, because they now hold onto our samples, our urine and blood samples for 10 years. So shared talent. Four years later.

A race walker got silver in London at the time, got silver in London in 2015-16. They announced him as the Olympic gold medalist.

Greg: Yeah. It’s a tough gig

Kenny: Because you get the recognition that the Olympics. Well, the athletes might not go, oh, I’ve missed out on that recognition. It’s the — I’ve raced a drug cheat.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: And I’m sure within his sport that — yeah, that’s just one story. I’m sure there’s hundreds of stories.

Greg: So let’s, off athletes, let’s talk about just standard workplace testing.

Kenny: Operating big machinery.

So yeah, it is important to drug tests, not just in sport but across a range of different professions.

Greg: So this could be a really silly question, but I’ve got heaps of them.

Say, codeine suddenly come up on the list of things you need to look for. What does that mean for your organization? As far as timing to come to market standards, testing, equipment?

Jane: If we add in a drug, to like, so if they say —

Greg: Yeah. Something new.

Jane: — some new supplements.

So say we take your protein powder. The first time we test that, we quite literally put all 200 and something drugs in little standards into that product and make sure we can get them out again.

Greg: for the market, mate.

Jane: Sometimes… [laughs]

Jane: Yeah. So, because you’ve got to show…

Greg: So, all 288 of them.

Greg: Absolutely.

Kenny: It’s a big process.

Greg: Incredible.

Jane: So, that set process.

Greg: Massive.

Jane: Certificate of analysis. Drug Testing Certificate.

Greg: Thank you.

Greg: We do two types with you.

Jane: Yeah.

So a certified product is actually a much more stringent set of criteria, and every batch is then tested and that’s when they can use the logo on pack.

Batch testing means that someone sent us a sample from a batch. Still a good thing, but not the same as that whole more controlled process of certifying.

Greg: We do that with a lot of teams, actually, with you. And I appreciate that. You get somebody who wants a special fiber protein bar who’s an elite athlete, so they have to test the whole batch.

There is a lot of teams that do test.

So now that product is tested batch by batch. We test it, if you say it passed, it passed, if it doesn’t…

Jane: It doesn’t…

Greg: — that’s what we tell people. We actually took the HASTA logo off that product.

Greg: Supply chain was just…

Jane: — in terms of those things.

Mac: Proprietary blends.

Jane: — proprietary blends can be an issue.

Greg: Massive fan of those. Big fan of proprietary blends.

Mac: Tongue in cheek.

Greg: [laughs] You won’t see one on our product.

Mac: No. I don’t think you should be allowed to do it. I think that you shouldn’t have to list the ingredients and the amounts of each ingredient. But it’s commonplace.

Greg: Well it’s different manufacturing standards from different countries, so that’s what it is.

Greg: We run both types too. It’s quite difficult times.

Jane: Yeah, it is.

That’s like when every time athletes walk in, our team is trying to go — you’re an athlete, aren’t you?

So we asked the second question ourself. That’s a big thing.

What are the benefits of people actually going to a supplement that is third party tested? Because what are some of the side effects of some performance enhancing drugs?

So I look at it as use, misuse and abuse, in terms of the categorization of that.

Jane: Therapeutic use.

Mac: I’m talking clean. Absolutely there’s uses. And used correctly, the side effects are minimized. Absolutely, categorically.

If you go off the reservation and you want to take triple the amount or ten times the amount, well there’ll be a knock on effect to that.

Kenny: But this is something where they’ll go to their GP

Mac: Well, GPs may or may not be much use to them. They’ll probably have to go to someone who specialises in hormones, an endocrinologist or someone.

Kenny: OK.

Mac: Yeah, no question.

Jane: Correct ones. No made up names. [laughs] Yeah.

Mac: Absolutely.

— and no proprietary blends.

For those that are listening that maybe don’t know what that is, there are companies that, on the label, it will just say —

Greg: 5,000 milligrams.

Mac: — 5,000 milligrams of “Billy’s Thermogenic Mix” or something like that.

Jane: Yeah.

Mac: And then it’ll have —

Jane: Proprietary blend.

Mac: Proprietary blend underneath it.

Greg: Absolutely.

Jane: And it sounds good, and… Yeah.

Mac: Sounds great. And they go — has it got this in it? — check, check, check. Oh, yeah, but it’s one tenth of what would have a benefit. So there’s a lot of that going on.

But your answer’s correct, basically.

Kenny: I guess the point that I was getting to, is, you don’t have to be Olympic standard athlete, you don’t have to be a high performance athlete to want to take…

Jane: It’s safer.

Kenny: — the safer supplement.

Mac: Oh, absolutely.

Jane: One of the reasons the TGA banned it, is because in high doses, it’s led to cardiac arrest and death. So there’s your side effect — death.

Kenny: So again, don’t have to be an athlete.

Jane: Nope.

Kenny: Don’t have to be competing or training every day. You can be a Joe Blow that turns up to work every day and works his long hours.

Jane: Works out regularly, and wants to have that good workout stimulant.

Kenny: — and just needs the good zone.

Jane: Yep. There’s something in there that’s actually quite detrimental to your health.

Greg: Or your employment, like you were saying.

Greg: Absolutely.

Well Jane, thank you very much for coming out today. We appreciate that.

Jane: Thank you.

Greg: You guys out in the supplement world that need to certify your products, HASTA is the answer.

Kenny. It’s always fun. Have you got any last words on how you go so fast?

Greg: I like that. You’d like that as a coach, Mac?

Mac: Yeah. I reckon that would be handy. But the left one in first, then the right one.

Jane: Right one.

Mac: And do it more often and harder than the next person.

Kenny: Yeah. Longer, harder, faster, and more consistently.

Mac: — than the person next to you.

Kenny: Yeah.

Greg: I would hate to be in like a K2 or K4 with you. I don’t think it would be fun at all.

Kenny: [laughs]

Mac: I’d be too scared to fall in the water. They’re not real big. The seats aren’t real big. Right? There’s not a lot of room to move?

Kenny: No. There’s not. They’re as skinny as my hips. I’m like a size 32 at the moment. So…

Greg: I don’t know if Kenny remembers this. He came around one day and he brought it round. And he stood up on the seat, and said, here you go, jump in, I sat on it and went straight in.

Kenny: over the edge.

Mac: Yeah.

Kenny: Yeah, I remember. [laughs]

Greg: I was actually doing a lot of pedaling at that time.

Kenny: For some people, we need like a shoehorn to get them into the seat

It is fun.

Greg: So guys. Thanks for coming along. That’s the last of this. Let’s knock it off.

Mac: Awesome.

Kenny: Thank you.

Jane: Thank you.

Episode 6: Safe Supplements published first on http://www.bodyscience.com.au/

#Body Science #Body Science Podcast #Fat Loss #fitness

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bodyscienceau · 6 years

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Episode 6: Safe Supplements

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WEBSITES LINKS: https://www.asada.gov.au https://www.globaldro.com https://www.bodyscience.com.au/drugtest

REPORTS: WADA 2016 Anti-Doping Report ASADA Annual Report FY17 Upper limit of the doping risk linked to sports supplements Report

Podcast Transcript

I’m taking a breath, Kenny, and coming back in.

Mac: Maybe she’ll be able to talk during the podcast.

Greg: Yeah. I’ve clocked up more words today than I have in every podcast.

Jane: It’s a record.

Greg: Yeah I know. And it probably will sound terrible, but let’s move on.

Greg: Was.

Mac: I think at one time, you had 100 products didn’t you?

Greg: We were doing a lot of testing.

Mac: Yeah. We were doing a lot of testing and bundling them up, sending him to the UK, and waiting for those to come back, batch by batch, flavor by flavor, the usual routine.

Greg: We were doing a lot of raw material testing, too.

Mac: A lot of raw material testing…

Greg: Once you start that program, you start creating new formula as well, when you use new suppliers.

Jane: Testing ingredients.

Greg: Yeah. And the number of positive ones we got was actually scary.

Mac: Yeah. There were a few came back with a few alarm bells with various ingredients. I can’t remember what they were.

Greg: Supply channels…

Mac: The supply channels were the issue. Absolutely. But it was uncharted territory. And it’s evolved significantly in the last eight years or so since then. But time flies.

Greg: Thankfully. It’s good to go to sleep at night these days.

Mac: Absolutely.

Greg: So, Jane, let’s start with you. Tell us all about HASTA. Like why would people care that HASTA does what it does?

So for us to then move into supplements, we don’t have a conflict of interest and we can bring that drug testing expertise to testing your supplements.

Greg: OK.

Greg: True.

Kenny, how many drug tests have you done?

Greg: Wow.

Greg: So, Jane, do you want to tell us some of the stats in relation to what’s found from the testing process and what you actually test for and what you do?

Kenny: In competition testing. Out of competition testing.

Greg: Wow.

Greg: There’s no peptides in sport. Is there Mac?

Mac: I don’t think so.

Greg: I didn’t think there was either.

[laughter]

Greg: Thanks for all your input here Mac.

Mac: I’m listening.

Greg: You’ve been unreal. [laughs]

Mac: I’m fine. I’m sitting back. I’m normally doing all the talking. I’m listening.

Greg: I’m quite happy for you to jump in too. You’ve got some good stories to tell.

Mac: No. That’s all good.

Greg: �� So Ken, you head overseas to Poland.

So we’d spend a lot of time in Europe, basically.

Greg: So, as a team, how do you guys handle the food side, the supplements side, the…

Since the darkest day in Australian sport or whatever it was called — it was a dark day for us, I know that — it’s become such a… Everyone talks about it. Like…

Mac: You’re not talking about the sand paper are you?

Greg: No.

Mac: You’re talking about the other darkest day.

Greg: Wow.

Mac: Is that right?

Greg: He’s a good friend of ours, too, that guy. [laughs]

Mac: Oh, right. Sorry.

[laughter]

Mac: I was trying to contribute.

Greg: No. That was really good.

Mac: Wow.

So at the first steps we take our supplements with us. We don’t risk it. We have a zero tolerance for risk in any way. We try to minimise that.

Greg: So are you walking into a shop and buying a Muesli bar? Or…

Kenny: No, not really.

Greg: You’re not doing anything like that.

Kenny: No.

Ken has a good point. My experience is more so in a national football codes here in Australia, and each one of those has their own anti-doping policy — not “doping policy.” Faux pas.

What I’m saying is, you can only control what happens when they are under your care.

Greg: Yeah. Totally.

Jane: Yeah.

So there’s a lot of working parts to this whole system of nutrition, supplementation, anti-doping. It all comes under one umbrella, really. But it’s complicated.

So it’s a whole range of things that we’re taking.

Jane: On a drug test. Yeah.

Mac: That’s a really good point, mate.

Jane: Yeah.

Mac: The accountability to what goes in your mouth is fundamental to the whole thing and that’s where we’ve had cases in this country where they have been…

We talked about the darkest day in Australian sport.

Greg: That’s the first one, not the second.

Mac: The first one. Yeah.

So, that’s not an example of inadvertent doping. I wouldn’t suggest it. That’s a different kettle of fish.

Greg: How much education is there out there for you? I know like there’s just the ASADA has just launched their app, which is great.

Jane: App. Yeah. Which is great.

Greg: They’re not traditionally illegal.

Greg: Especially brands country to country, too, you know, formulas change for different countries.

Mac: Cold-flu medications, simple cough syrups, things like that.

But we also check, there are websites available on in there. One’s called, and ASADA uses, globaldro.

Jane: GlobalDRO. Yeah.

Greg: What was that again? Can you say again?

Kenny: “Global Dro”

Jane: Global-D-R-O.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: You get to the little green ticks. Sorted. Sweet. I can take that. Even if I’m out of competition and see something there, I don’t risk it. It’s… I don’t want to know about it.

Greg: I think when you analyze down to the actual performance benefit of a lot of these things, it’s mental.

Kenny: It’s not worth it.

Kenny: So you’re talking about like a steroid there. Now, at the moment, if somebody goes down for steroids, they’re banned for four years?

Jane: Yeah.

Greg: That’s probably one for you, Mac. Let’s be honest.

Kenny: Like, it’s…

So I think there’s a long discussion around, I suppose, the ethical component of that. And, does that make it a fair playing field after four years?

Kenny: Does that mean people should get lifetime bans? If they get done for a steroid?

Greg: He’s not going anywhere near that. [laughs]

Mac: I mean, my opinion doesn’t really matter. But the answer to the question “is there a residual effect?” and the answer is, yeah. Absolutely there is.

Kenny: Yeah.

Mac: I don’t have the answer to your question, but it’s a good question.

Kenny: And I don’t think anyone will have the answer to that question, because everyone would have an opinion on this.

Greg: If you ask me. That’s not a hard question. That’s not a hard question to answer I think.

Jane: So if you get inadvertent contamination…

Kenny: Yeah. So this is the…

Now, that’s also then becomes a reputational risk for some of the suppliers because, are we having athletes who immediately say, oh, it must be the supplements.

Greg: And it’s massive for us.

Jane: It’s a really big commitment.

Kenny: To me as an athlete, it’s…

Jane, I see you as the insurance policy.

Jane: [laughs]

Kenny: This is what I…

Greg: I’m sure your boss likes that statement.

[laughter]

Kenny: I’ve been with body science since 2001. I’m actually part of the furniture in here.

Jane: The original family. [laughs]

Kenny: Oh yeah.

So to go that extra step…

Jane: Yeah. It’s really important.

Kenny: It’s really important. And for me it’s just a massive ticking the box there.

Jane: It’s interesting that ASADA has officially recognised that now. Because if you look at a lot of their work in the past, they’ve said to athletes — just don’t take them.

Kenny: Yeah. “Don’t take any supplements.”

Jane: Don’t take any supplements at all. Right?

So to your point, they’re saying, there’s a risk but these are the lowest risk, and that’s the people we want to work with because we want to show that their products are low risk.

Kenny: Again. Minimising the risk.

Jane: You’re minimising the risk. So it’s about good records, good reputation, really ticking all those boxes before you take something.

Jane: And it is complex and it is expensive testing.

Greg: Oh, it is.

Kenny: It’s not cheap for a company to do.

Jane: No.

Greg: It’s not just the cost of the actual testing though, I mean, we can’t sell our product until you say yes.

Jane: That’s right.

Greg: And occasionally that can cause headaches. But… Big headaches. But…

People don’t even know that, you know? And it takes about 14 days on a good day to test the product?

Mac: In the industry, that trickles down to the end user of the supplement. For example, anyone can start a supplement company.

Greg: Absolutely.

Jane: It is. Yeah.

Mac: But I think, leading off from your point, if you want to be a provider to the athletic industry, the sports industry, then I think testing should be mandatory.

Greg: We’re not the ones who said we’re a formulated sports food. That’s a government body, and if you want to play in that game, you should play in the game.

Greg: Protein’s just protein.

Mac: — protein’s just protein — and protein is not just protein. Just like a calorie is not a calorie. You know.

Greg: I don’t think people actually understand how high level risk it actually is.

Greg: 20 percent positive.

Jane: — and off the shelf. And the more —

Mac: I remember the study. There was a study.

Jane: — yeah. The more extreme the name is, I’d have to say, the more likely it is to come up positive. So that’s one of our tips.

So you’re looking at supply chain breakdowns or contaminated brew ingredient that never then gets to the athlete — and it’s less than one percent. Certainly less than five percent over time.

Greg: — all the test-boosters on the market

Jane: There are two very different markets. And I think, to your point, because it’s such a growth industry and there’s this big crossover now between sport and health and fitness —

Greg: And diet.

Jane: — and diet, and… If you look one of the most popular drugs still and that people get pinged for his clenbuterol. Well it’s very popular in gyms and shredding, and that whole market.

Greg: You guys would be good at testing for that too, wouldn’t you? You’d be good at testing for that, wouldn’t you? What’s its true use?

Jane: It’s a non-anabolic steroid.

Mac: So Jane, what are you seeing in terms of some of the stats around different sports and what different products? What are some of the common substances that are coming up?

Mac: Yep.

And some of that is the use of terms that people think sound natural. So DMBA has often been shown as pouchong tea extract. It’s not pouchong tea extract. It’s a synthetic stimulant.

Kenny: Does it sound bad that I have no idea what you’re talking about? That the names of the these drugs, I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Because as an athlete, we don’t even get to that part.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: If you’re…

Greg: Yeah, but you need to understand, like, an athlete walks into a store and goes — I want your best pre-workout.

Kenny: Like just a simple line, and that’s where that type of thing comes across?

Greg: Yeah. So…

Jane: And it says pouchong tea extract, and you go — oh, that must be alright.

Greg: Tea.

Kenny: Yeah. It’s tea. It might be alright.

Jane: That’s alright. It’s green tea. That’s all popular. That’ll be fine.

Greg: That tea.

Jane: — but actually it’s a high level stimulant.

Mac: You know what. That’s interesting, Kenny. But the market that I deal with, the physique industry, they are all over it. So they know exactly what it is. And they look for it. They look for it.

And with some of the DM-double-As and some of those stimulants, they were in a lot of products at a time when they weren’t banned.

Jane: That’s right.

Mac: And so…

Jane: And they’ve had to be taken off the market.

Mac: And that’s great. Yeah. And so it’s an evolving landscape.

Jane: Yeah. So that’s a risk — not reading the label properly or not understanding what’s on the label — because they do try and disguise some of those.

The ones with high levels of things like higenamine or DMAA, they were supplements that were built that way for a particular market.

Greg: You can actually check a batch on that, which is great. That’s what it’s all about. It’s not just what’s in the ingredient panel, it’s down to batch level.

Mac: Yeah.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: I see that it’s HASTA-tested. Great. Take the supplement. But I’ve always got it on record…

Greg: Absolutely.

Kenny: — what the name of it is…

Greg: OSI Number

Kenny: — the batch number that it is. Again, the athlete responsibility.

Greg: What are some of the biggest sports that are in trouble these days with doping? And we’re working off an official list here, aren’t we?

Jane: [laughs] Yeah.

Greg: Yeah, it’s not like we made this up to sound good.

Mac: [laughs]

Jane: In Australia… I’ll put the drugs internationally, but the Australian ones in terms of…

Jane: Yeah.

Greg: It’s a big drink. [laughs]

Greg: Good on them for testing.

Mac: Absolutely. Fantastic that they’re really conscious about it. It’s become a massive phenomenon and there’s big dollars on the line, and a credit to them for having a policy in place.

Greg: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Wow, silence. That’s really good.

Mac: No. Silence is bad.

Jane: Yeah — what happened there?

Kenny: Where, something’s happened somewhere, in and around there.

And we always hear stories of people putting something else in somebody’s drink bottle and…

Jane: Yeah. Tampering. What do you think the actual incidence of tampering is? Because that’s often used as a defense. They say it must’ve been tampering. [inaudible]

Kenny: Must’ve been tampered with. Somebody just put something in my drink bottle.

Mac: Do you have an opinion? What do you think, Kenny?

Kenny: Wherever it can happen.

Mac: No, no, no, I know it can happen. I’m interested in, do we think it happens much?

If I get beaten by somebody that’s taken drugs, it’s a nothing race. It’s let down.

Greg: Yeah. Absolutely.

Kenny: And the hard part is we might not find that out for…

Jane: Two years. Yeah.

Kenny: Or the next eight years, because they now hold onto our samples, our urine and blood samples for 10 years. So shared talent. Four years later.

A race walker got silver in London at the time, got silver in London in 2015-16. They announced him as the Olympic gold medalist.

Greg: Yeah. It’s a tough gig

Kenny: Because you get the recognition that the Olympics. Well, the athletes might not go, oh, I’ve missed out on that recognition. It’s the — I’ve raced a drug cheat.

Jane: Yeah.

Kenny: And I’m sure within his sport that — yeah, that’s just one story. I’m sure there’s hundreds of stories.

Greg: So let’s, off athletes, let’s talk about just standard workplace testing.

Kenny: Operating big machinery.

So yeah, it is important to drug tests, not just in sport but across a range of different professions.

Greg: So this could be a really silly question, but I’ve got heaps of them.

Say, codeine suddenly come up on the list of things you need to look for. What does that mean for your organization? As far as timing to come to market standards, testing, equipment?

Jane: If we add in a drug, to like, so if they say —

Greg: Yeah. Something new.

Jane: — some new supplements.

So say we take your protein powder. The first time we test that, we quite literally put all 200 and something drugs in little standards into that product and make sure we can get them out again.

Greg: for the market, mate.

Jane: Sometimes… [laughs]

Jane: Yeah. So, because you’ve got to show…

Greg: So, all 288 of them.

Greg: Absolutely.

Kenny: It’s a big process.

Greg: Incredible.

Jane: So, that set process.

Greg: Massive.

Jane: Certificate of analysis. Drug Testing Certificate.

Greg: Thank you.

Greg: We do two types with you.

Jane: Yeah.

So a certified product is actually a much more stringent set of criteria, and every batch is then tested and that’s when they can use the logo on pack.

Batch testing means that someone sent us a sample from a batch. Still a good thing, but not the same as that whole more controlled process of certifying.

Greg: We do that with a lot of teams, actually, with you. And I appreciate that. You get somebody who wants a special fiber protein bar who’s an elite athlete, so they have to test the whole batch.

There is a lot of teams that do test.

Jane: �� And we see an increasing range of products coming through. And again, that whole market around complimentary medicines and where that sits in terms of supplements, so not your standard formula and supplementary sports foods, but capsules and tablets and other things. And some of those we have real difficulties testing. We might not be able to get all the steroids out of some of those really oily products. And that’s what we’ll tell the team or the dietitian or the strength and conditioning coaches go — we’ve tested this but we can’t get every drug that we would like to, to extract out of it. So you still have an element of risk.

So now that product is tested batch by batch. We test it, if you say it passed, it passed, if it doesn’t…

Jane: It doesn’t…

Greg: — that’s what we tell people. We actually took the HASTA logo off that product.

Greg: Supply chain was just…

Jane: — in terms of those things.

Mac: Proprietary blends.

Jane: — proprietary blends can be an issue.

Greg: Massive fan of those. Big fan of proprietary blends.

Mac: Tongue in cheek.

Greg: [laughs] You won’t see one on our product.

Mac: No. I don’t think you should be allowed to do it. I think that you shouldn’t have to list the ingredients and the amounts of each ingredient. But it’s commonplace.

Greg: Well it’s different manufacturing standards from different countries, so that’s what it is.

Greg: We run both types too. It’s quite difficult times.

Jane: Yeah, it is.

That’s like when every time athletes walk in, our team is trying to go — you’re an athlete, aren’t you?

So we asked the second question ourself. That’s a big thing.

What are the benefits of people actually going to a supplement that is third party tested? Because what are some of the side effects of some performance enhancing drugs?

So I look at it as use, misuse and abuse, in terms of the categorization of that.

Jane: Therapeutic use.

Mac: I’m talking clean. Absolutely there’s uses. And used correctly, the side effects are minimized. Absolutely, categorically.

If you go off the reservation and you want to take triple the amount or ten times the amount, well there’ll be a knock on effect to that.

Kenny: But this is something where they’ll go to their GP

Mac: Well, GPs may or may not be much use to them. They’ll probably have to go to someone who specialises in hormones, an endocrinologist or someone.

Kenny: OK.

Mac: Yeah, no question.

Jane: Correct ones. No made up names. [laughs] Yeah.

Mac: Absolutely.

— and no proprietary blends.

For those that are listening that maybe don’t know what that is, there are companies that, on the label, it will just say —

Greg: 5,000 milligrams.

Mac: — 5,000 milligrams of “Billy’s Thermogenic Mix” or something like that.

Jane: Yeah.

Mac: And then it’ll have —

Jane: Proprietary blend.

Mac: Proprietary blend underneath it.

Greg: Absolutely.

Jane: And it sounds good, and… Yeah.

Mac: Sounds great. And they go — has it got this in it? — check, check, check. Oh, yeah, but it’s one tenth of what would have a benefit. So there’s a lot of that going on.

But your answer’s correct, basically.

Kenny: I guess the point that I was getting to, is, you don’t have to be Olympic standard athlete, you don’t have to be a high performance athlete to want to take…

Jane: It’s safer.

Kenny: — the safer supplement.

Mac: Oh, absolutely.

Jane: One of the reasons the TGA banned it, is because in high doses, it’s led to cardiac arrest and death. So there’s your side effect — death.

Kenny: So again, don’t have to be an athlete.

Jane: Nope.

Kenny: Don’t have to be competing or training every day. You can be a Joe Blow that turns up to work every day and works his long hours.

Jane: Works out regularly, and wants to have that good workout stimulant.

Kenny: — and just needs the good zone.

Jane: Yep. There’s something in there that’s actually quite detrimental to your health.

Greg: Or your employment, like you were saying.

Greg: Absolutely.

Well Jane, thank you very much for coming out today. We appreciate that.

Jane: Thank you.

Greg: You guys out in the supplement world that need to certify your products, HASTA is the answer.

Kenny. It’s always fun. Have you got any last words on how you go so fast?

Greg: I like that. You’d like that as a coach, Mac?

Mac: Yeah. I reckon that would be handy. But the left one in first, then the right one.

Jane: Right one.

Mac: And do it more often and harder than the next person.

Kenny: Yeah. Longer, harder, faster, and more consistently.

Mac: — than the person next to you.

Kenny: Yeah.

Greg: I would hate to be in like a K2 or K4 with you. I don’t think it would be fun at all.

Kenny: [laughs]

Mac: I’d be too scared to fall in the water. They’re not real big. The seats aren’t real big. Right? There’s not a lot of room to move?

Kenny: No. There’s not. They’re as skinny as my hips. I’m like a size 32 at the moment. So…

Greg: I don’t know if Kenny remembers this. He came around one day and he brought it round. And he stood up on the seat, and said, here you go, jump in, I sat on it and went straight in.

Kenny: over the edge.

Mac: Yeah.

Kenny: Yeah, I remember. [laughs]

Greg: I was actually doing a lot of pedaling at that time.

Kenny: For some people, we need like a shoehorn to get them into the seat

It is fun.

Greg: So guys. Thanks for coming along. That’s the last of this. Let’s knock it off.

Mac: Awesome.

Kenny: Thank you.

Jane: Thank you.

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