#gow analysis

[lullabyofthejotnar]

Isn’t it silly that the only cuss word we hear from Atreus and Angrboda is ‘Shit?’ 😛

They really are soulmates!

I just know if Grýla heard Angrboða say that, she'd give her a small lecture, just like Kratos did to Atreus lmao

Though with Angrboða, her swearing only once (if I'm remembering correctly) through out the story is quite interesting. The usual cliché with characters who don't swear is to have them do it during some very intense moment, like in a battle. Meanwhile with Angrboða, it happens in what seems like a "simpler chat".

But it's a bit more important than that for her & Atreus. It happens in their first serious conversation, she says it right after calming Atreus down. She continues trying to do so, until she messes up (from her perspective) and tries to redirect the conversation by telling him to just try forgetting about everything for now. I think this is another evidence of Angrboða spending a lot of time rehearsing and preparing to meet Loki.

I also like how it feels natural to her, despite the fact it's her (unless I'm missing another time) only time cussing.

[charalysis]

Kratos Part something or Other: Dynamics Between Faye vs Lysandra

In God of War, Kratos has been married twice. I would like to take the time here today to analyze how he functioned as a husband in each relationship, how it succeeded or not, and the difference between who he was at each stage in life in each marriage.

I think here, I'd actually like to begin with the second marriage, his marriage to Faye.

Faye

Starting off with some background, when Faye and Kratos met, it's canon that the two fought, nearly killing each other. But they stopped the fight, both being world weary. Eventually they got to know one another and fell in love. Ten years after their meeting, they built their cabin we see in game, and that's about when Kratos confessed his past and his true nature to Faye. Then twenty-two years after that (yeah zero idea how Kratos didn't realize his wife wasn't mortal after she barely aged in 32 years), they had Atreus.

Now! In the game (from the dream sequences obviously), we see Faye is playful with Kratos, teasing him and calling him Grumbles, while Kratos seems stoic and unresponsive to much of it. Though, it must be something he actually loves about his wife because otherwise he'd be annoyed by it, which he isn't. He just... Let's it be. And Faye seems to always be giving him sly little smiles, knowing he isn't as annoyed as he may try to play with his vague grunts. Faye is also the idealistic one, wanting to help all she can, when she can, and maintain a certain balance in the world. She's open and kinder and believes it's her responsibility to fix the problems she can, and encourages Kratos to do the same.

On Kratos's end, he's quiet, content to watch Faye and listen to her over speaking himself. He's softer with her, though, than others. Gentle and he actually tries to express his feelings with her. At times his own emotions can come out in him trying to dissuade Faye from her own course of action (wanting to bury her instead of cremate her and trying to tell her he dislikes the notion of cremation), but he ultimately listens and heeds her wishes because he loves her. In terms of ideals, Kratos is Faye's opposite. He's overly focused on attempts at practicality and self preservation to the point of ignoring others, and attempting to avoid what is reasonably easy for him to fix.

As a couple, they're essentially the epitome of opposites attract in terms of personality. Faye is the lighter, happier one. She's open to new ways of thinking and living, often going out of her way to try and improve conditions around her or protect others. Kratos, on the other hand, is reserved and a bit depressive. He often outright rejects new thinking because it goes against his own deeply ingrained way of thought from his Spartan upbringing. And because of his history, he's a bit reclusive and often only seeks to sustain and protect those dear to him.

The difference in their personalities is also reflected in how they raised Atreus as a couple.

Faye taught compassion and kindness and love. She taught Atreus to think outside himself and feel for others.

Kratos taught Atreus to shut himself off so he couldn't be hurt. He taught Atreus self preservation above all else because it would keep him alive.

Unfortunately, because of Kratos's attempts to control his temper and never let it get the better of him, thus being away frequently, balance was never brought to Atreus's foundations growing up until his teens.

Faye and Kratos were very in sync as a couple, but parenting seemed to be difficult between them because they clearly had wildly different styles, and because of Kratos's avoidant nature, it was never reconciled.

Faye often encouraged Kratos to be better than he was before, to push forward and look towards a brighter future. Something he struggled with especially after her death.

Lysandra

In the assumed canon, by the time Kratos is God of War he's around 38 years old after his ten years of service. This places him at at least 26-28 when he made the deal with Ares, then broke his oath to him. Spartan men were encouraged to marry at 20, but not allowed to live with their family until relieved of active military duty at 30, at which point they'd be legally required to marry.

This means it's likely Kratos married Lysandra at 20-ish, then they had Calliope around one to two years into the marriage. This is just timeline establishment.

Now, similar to their daughter, Lysandra held no fear of Kratos, unlike many. By the time she met and married him, Greece knew him well as a fierce captain and warrior. But it seemed, to Lysandra, he was a man like any other. She loved him as he was, flaws and all.

This is not to say she had any real personal reasons to fear him. He was far from abusive to her. He adored his wife and brought her beautiful gifts when he did come home.

One thing it is known about her in relation to her lack of fear of her husband was her ability to call him out. To tell him what she felt and thought of his actions. She was not afraid to tell him her concerns that at times he didn't seem to be pushing for the glory of Greece. She felt he was often pushing for personal power instead. She tried to encourage him to find less violent methods of solving problems.

According to Kratos in GoW: Valhalla, Lysandra saw in him a goodness and a better path long before he could.

Lysandra was absolutely one of the few things keeping the younger, more impulsive and brash Kratos somewhat grounded.

I think their marriage was probably a bit tense at times, but still very loving and affectionate. It's clear Lysandra was a loyal and loving wife, and Kratos did his best to show he loved her in return.

However, Kratos outright calls himself a bad husband to her and says she deserved better from him.

This shows that, perhaps in hindsight, Kratos knew his behavior and actions were negatively affecting Lysandra, whether he meant them to or not.

Kratos also says that in the way Lysandra tried to help him be better, Faye reminds him of her. They both pushed him to improve himself and be a kinder person, to be thoughtful and selfless.

[rambleonaud]

I think about the new GoW games a lot. I just like them.

What I sort of observed on my second observation of Ragnorok's story was a lot of Odin-as-false-Tyr's interactions with others and 1) He makes me SO mad but 2) I think his dynamic or intentions with REAL Tyr are so interesting based on how he acted.

For one, maybe it was his intention to be as seemingly useless/passive as Tyr as possible, but in the Alfenheim quest, I did wonder if perhaps he saw and was confused by the lack of power he had as Tyr to convince others of anything. My mind goes to that phrase that went around that was like "One can only be Peaceful if they're capable of great harm, otherwise they're just harmless". As Odin, he's able to subtly convince others based on the sheer amount of bloody credit to his word. Every word has double meaning so he can step away from a situation with clean hands if he's called out. I think he got used to that, and was actively confused when the elves, who Tyr worked with so successfully, didn't pay him any mind.

I'm ESPECIALLY happy that we get to see who REAL Tyr is in the Valhalla DLC because he's perfect. He's kind, basically a therapist, but also INCREDIBLY capable. He's SCARY and it makes him feel like so much more. Like you know based on how he's able to outright STOP Kratos every time he loses that he's just sparring. Holding back. He is capable of great harm. He just chooses not to. That's not who he is. I don't think Odin was able to grasp that, and could only pantomime it by making Tyr unwilling to fight. Because all he saw was a resigned, traumatized version. Or maybe Tyr knew about the events needed to unfold, too. The ones that would prevent the greater harm the first predicted Ragnorok would bring on. Maybe he KNEW Fey, and her own predictions, the reality that would change the path.

[countlessofvoids]

Just wanted to say that I don't think either Angrboða nor Atreus were in the wrong during their interactions. They're literaly just two kids with limited socialization meeting another peer. Both have pure intentions. The only "negative" moments were misunderstandings, Atreus' impulsiveness or Angrboða's overall carefulness caused by her ''desire" to make sure she fulfills the prophecy that she grew up believing is her only purpose

[mangk0]

WHAT IF THEYRE SETTING UP FOR ATREUS AND SIGRUN TO MEET UP SOMEWHERE IN THEIR OWN STORIES

[kratioed]

GOW: made fanart depictions of Kratos' future granddaughter. Popular headcanon is that Hel looks like Calliope and Atreus named her after his deceased mother or half sister-

me with Atreus' nonexistence sons from Norse Mythology:

[d3c0mp0siti0nn]

sooo, Heimdall fans: I'm currently working on writing a Heimdall deep dive and psychoanalysis. When it's finished, should I post it??

[zukosdualdao]

people can love or hate ships for whatever reason and as long as you’re not harassing people it doesn’t matter

AND ALSO

i find it so weird when people like “you only hate kataang because you ship zutara” lmao. i am a Multishipper At Heart. there is nothing i love more than pairing off characters in different dynamics and seeing how they affect each other. i can and very easily do ship multiple things that ‘contradict’ each other because none of it is real. me reading zutara fic one day does not prevent me from reading katara x suki fic the next (if it existed. more of it should).

my issues with KA have to do with THEIR dynamic in-show, not anyone else’s. and i am fully capable of going “oh, i don’t ship this that much, but it’s canon and i guess it’s cute.” that’s how i USED to feel about KA until i rewatched last year with more adult and critical-analysis-oriented eyes than i ever had before. and found it to be a pretty bleak dynamic, all things considered, and one that reflects a lot of real-world attitudes about gow women are treated and expected to behave in relationships. and that would be true whether or not zuko even existed, or if he and katara never bonded. all zutara does for me when it comes to this is provide a point of comparison on how a relationship Can develop. and that the main romance we’re supposed to root for really didn’t do the same.

[tapioca-puddingg]

Why GoWR Valhalla Is Important

Hey. It's me again. This time I'm not yelling about Kingdom Hearts or Drakengard, but I wanted to talk about God of War Ragnarök: Valhalla today and why I think it's important in trauma-centered narratives. This isn't a detailed analysis, just me spitballing.

SPOILER WARNING: There will be spoilers for God of War Ragnarök: Valhalla, so please proceed with caution!

EDITED: 2/26/24

As a brief summary, Kratos spent almost the entirety of GoW 2018 refusing to talk about his past. His guilt, shame, and trauma deeply affected his relationship with his son, to the point where he didn't want to be around Atreus bc he was terrified of being a bad influence on him. It was only when Atreus' life was in danger did it force him to finally admit just a sliver of the truth. Now I don't mean to say that Kratos revealing his godhood wasn't a big deal because it absolutely was, I'm just saying that it's just one piece of a MUCH bigger story. Anyway, he recognized his past mistakes, but the shame was too much for him to openly acknowledge it until damn near the end of the game.

Come Ragnarök, Kratos was pretty much an open book. He had grown SO much in those short years of fimbulwinter: He openly talked about his trauma to Mimir and Freya. He worked so hard to be a good father and a good support system to his friends. He went out of his way to make amends with Freya and restore their friendship. And he fought to restore peace to the Nine Realms.

But come Valhalla, Freya wants to recruit Kratos to be the new God of War of the nine realms, or at least to be a part of the new peacekeeping council that she's putting together. Kratos is extremely hesitant to take up the mantle. He doesn't feel worthy or deserving enough to hold this position given all that he's done. He and Mimir (and later on, Tyr) are constantly going back and forth about it. Both perspectives are completely valid. Valhalla is about Kratos facing his past in a more literal sense; parts of Greece have been manifested from Kratos' memories of it, so it's like he gets to be there in real time again. This is about helping him process what happened and to add some nuance to the conversation. It's like free therapy for Kratos.

It's funny too bc you have both opposing viewpoints being represented. On one hand, you have Mimir and Tyr being the supporting/validating voice, and Helios is the contrarian. Since he's a manifestation of Kratos' memories, he represents the doubts that Kratos has about himself. The harsh voice to show how hard he is on himself, and not without good reason.

The reason why I think Valhalla is so important is bc in media, survivor narratives are often linear. The character just "gets over" their trauma and then that trauma isn't addressed again. It's presented more as a hurdle than a lifelong battle. I guess this goes to show how misunderstood survivorhood is. But that isn't how healing works. We regress sometimes, and sometimes we still mull over the things that have happened to us. We might heal, but that trauma does leave emotional scars. So even after the many leaps and bounds Kratos has made, he's not "over" his past, far from it! It still haunts him every day and every night. Valhalla is Kratos still processing everything. From my own healing journey, I've learned that it takes a long, long time to fully process your trauma, if there even is a "fully", anyway. It takes a long time to learn and understand all the complexities and how it affects you in current day. And it takes even longer to process such a complicated history like Kratos'.

Generally speaking about the idea of processing trauma, I said earlier that survivorhood is extremely misunderstood by the masses. Imo, our society is very anti-victim/anti-survivor. So with that in mind, from the perspective of the audience, some might perceive the processing trauma bit as repetitive or "milking it". These are mediums of entertainment after all, so ofc I understand wanting to put out an engaging story where the audience doesn't lose interest. But screw those ppl lol. We have to understand why we do what we do if we want to do better, and it's amazing that a video game is willing to have these conversations. Being more open about all the nuances of processing trauma, grief, healing, etc will go such a long way.

Even the roguelite gameplay style perfectly reflects this theme. Processing this stuff is slow. It doesn't happen overnight. Unless you're in Valhalla, I suppose.

Okay I said this wasn't a detailed analysis but I lied. I'm a liar now

[charalysis]

GoW:Magni pt.2

So!!! I was recently informed that Magni is the only child that is not Sif's.

He is, in fact, an affair baby to put it nicely. The son of Thor and and giantess, Járnsaxa.

As confirmed by Sindri in the 2018 game "Sindri called the situation sordid story, sordid meaning "involving ignoble actions and motives; arousing moral distaste and contempt." This is a direct reference to Thor cheating on his wife Sif with Járnsaxa."

Magni was Thor's first child and thus defacto heir to Mjolnir, despite Odin's possible dislike.

If we assume the GoW lore has some accuracy matching the real myths, Odin despised Magni for being mostly giant. Magni was his first grandchild, and Magni was probably a disappointment to him out the gate, thus immediately straining his bonds with Thor.

Thor clearly favored Magni between his sons, but that doesn't mean their bond wasn't strained, especially with how Thor used to abuse him and Modi. But Magni's not only Thor's first child, but Magni was presumably stronger, and possibly smarter than Modi. Magni could have likely had a lot of his giant heritage close at hand, particularly magically. I don't know if he had Jötunar visions, however it's possible he may have to an extent, thus his cockiness in his fight with Kratos.

His fate to live through Ragnarok was seemingly assured to him, not just through prophecy, but perhaps by his own magic. He didn't realize he was up against a man who's entire thing is breaking fate...

But I do wonder what his status as an affair child and 3/4 Jötun meant for Magni in Asgard.

Did all Aesir and Asgard know? Was it a family secret? Did Sif try to pass him off as hers for the sake of Odin's image, or did she simply put aside her hurt and anger at being cheated on for the sake of a possibly abandoned/motherless newborn Magni?

Did Modi know? Does Thrúd know?

Modi's status as useless came from his cowardice and low intelligence, from his incompetence. Could Magni's status of useless have actually come from his heritage and the, essentially, racism he likely faced for being mostly giant?

Magni seemed more largely accepted between him and Modi amongst Aesir, and I still firmly believe it's because of Sif. Either people simply associate her and him because of their hair, or she put in great effort, even at her worst, to try and make sure everyone who saw her best qualities, saw those traits in Magni. Or at least orchestrated a positive association between him and herself to others. Perhaps many Asgardians don't even know Magni isn't her biological son.

Idk these are rambly thoughts at 3:30 am

[apocalypticwafflekitten]

I Have Thoughts and Feelings About Magni from God Of War 2018 (+ A Blurb!)

Now hear me out: I doubt this was intentional, but I think I’ve connected some dots (You haven’t connected shit) I’ve connected them:

Exhibit A:

This is the conversation in Niflheim, in the latter half of Ragnarök, where Sif is trying to show Thor what Odin has done to their family in the past few years. She focuses on the memory of Magni and Modi as kids and, most important for this analysis, the memory of carving wooden horses for their boys while telling stories by the fire.

Exhibit B:

Flashback to gow 2018 for a second and look at Magni’s armor.

When I look at that second link or segment of the metalwork in Magni’s belt, it looks like there are horse heads worked into the design of his armor.

Now this could be totally coincidental (and realistically, it probably is), but where’s the fun in that?

This got a lot longer than I intended, so I’m putting a cut here!

This gives me so many ideas and raises so many questions, my head is reeling.

Also, I don’t mean to say that this is a definitive connection, or that any of what I’m about to ramble off is canon. This is just exploring the potential of an idea I had when I remembered the wooden horse story from Ragnarök. This whole post/analysis thing is based around the idea that the horses were intentionally designed into Magni’s armor as a nod to the carved horses from Magni and Modi’s childhood. Of course the horses could be a reference to something else, or the may be nothing at all. But I find it very endearing that the horses in Magni’s armor could be a little symbolic link to the wooden horses and I want to explore that idea.

Now, if horses are worked into the design of Magni’s armor, assuming it’s not just a thing the armourer decided to throw in, then I have to wonder who asked for the horses to be worked into the design and why?

I’m assuming that this armor was made specifically for Magni, maybe as some sort of graduation into adulthood or something similar (idk, bear with me here). And I want to consider the, I guess, implications of different people asking for the design. Specifically those that I think would have had the most impact on the armor’s design: Sif, Thor, and Magni.

I think Sif and Thor would have similar intentions: I can imagine both of them wanting to remind Magni of a better time in their lives, before Odin started sending the boys out to do his bidding, before the constant competition between him and Modi. Maybe it’s a reminder of home or something like that. I can imagine them coming to the armorer together with designs drawn up.

There could also be a little character dimension here for Thor and Sif. This reaches well beyond textual evidence, but this entire analysis is based on two screen caps and blind hope, so I think it’s okay. I think requesting the horse design could be a way for Sif and Thor to show Magni that regardless of their drinking, and despite Thor’s physical abuse, they still remember what life was like before everything went to shit. Maybe it’s a subtle way of showing that they still care? That’s not to excuse Thor and Sif’s actions or parenting. I just think there could be some dimension there.

Given what we hear from the game though, I don’t know how likely this is. From my understanding, Sif and Thor were drinking, neglecting, and abusing their sons since their early childhood. Maybe they had some moments of clarity in there, and maybe they would pull together and look like a functional family for special events, but, again, there’s not enough information in the game to give concrete answers, so it’s up to personal headcanon.

And finally, if Magni was the one to request horses designed into his armor, there’s a lot we could speculate about his childhood and motivations. (Here is where I really start rambling. The speculation is off the charts) I’m running with the idea that the horses in Magni’s armor work as a sort of symbolic tie to his childhood. This could indicate a number of things about Magni and the kind of person he is deep down beneath all the bullshit he’s been taught.

If the little wooden horses mean so much to Magni that he has them shaped into the metalwork of his armor, then I wonder what Magni’s relationship with his childhood is like. Perhaps Magni is, deep down, a very sentimental person. Maybe he misses how things were when he was little, listening to stories by the fire, playing with the wooden horses his parents carved.

I really like this theory by @charalysis that suggests Magni was parentified as a kid and ended up raising Modi. I’ve thought about that a lot while writing this, and it makes me wonder if Magni is sort of emotionally drawn to those few happy memories from his childhood. Maybe Magni laments his lost childhood/adolescence and basically clings to whatever semblance of a childhood he had.

Maybe, in the face of his upbringing and Thor’s abuse, Magni is grasping at any happy memories he can muster as a sort of comfort. Maybe, wayyyy deep down, he has this stubborn hope that things can get better - that one day his family can go back to sitting by the fire, telling stories and carving horses. It wouldn’t be the same of course (and given what we know of Sif and Thor before their sons’ canonical deaths, it’s extremely unlikely), but maybe it’s a hope that’s more for Magni than his family. Maybe it’s something he has to hold onto to because if he didn’t he’d fall apart. So he keep fighting with this bull-headed optimism that things can change for the better.

I don’t know. I’m just rambling at this point, but I have so many thoughts.

Yes, I know I’m reading way too far into this. There’s so much speculation and the little horse design probably doesn’t hold this much weight, but I enjoy considering the possibilities of little details like this. That and we don’t know much about Magni outside of his physical strength and dysfunctional family, so I’ve indulged a bit here and played with this idea!

Thank you for coming to my Ted-Talk! Feel free to add your thoughts as well!

The screenshot of Sif’s conversation with Thor is from this video from BabyZone on YouTube

I wouldn’t have noticed the horse detail in Magni’s armor if I hadn’t been respectfully ogling @remoryu’s screencaps of Magni in the boss fight!

The beautiful dividers below are made by @cafekitsune!

And a huge thanks to @insane-brit for convincing me that this was worth posting!

This idea inspired me, so have a little Magni x Reader blurb! I don’t know when this is set exactly. Magni lives and it’s probably a little after the events of GOW 2018.

“Are those horses? On your belt?” You ask, watching as Magni unties the belt’s worn leather ties.

“Interested in my belt hmm? Why are you looking there?” He replies with a mischievous smirk and a glint in his eye.

“Oh hush. That’s not where my mind is and you know it.” You laugh, reaching for his belt after he set it on the bed beside you. “Are they horses though? In the metalwork?”

He smiles at you and sits beside you. He reaches across your lap to hold the belt with you, tracing his hand along the glinting patterns.

“Yes. When the armor was designed, I asked the armourer to include horses somewhere in the metalwork. I didn’t really care where, I just wanted horses in there. I wanted them as a reminder of when I was a kid. Before Odin started sending Modi and I to do his bidding.” There’s a distant look in Magni’s eyes, and his shoulders droop as he lets out a long, slow breath. “Mother and Father used to tell us stories around the fire while they carved wooden horses for us. Modi would always listen with rapt attention. I cared more for playing pretend with the horses. We used to fall asleep by the hearth and wake up the next morning, snug in our beds. I still remember the warmth of the hearth’s stones and how it felt to lay on them and drift off to sleep. Things were better then.”

“What happened?” You ask, shifting your gaze to look at Magni.

“Modi and I were raised as warriors. Even as kids we were pitted against one another in a bid to win our father’s and grandfather’s approval. But nothing good ever came of it. Odin was never impressed regardless of how many monsters we killed or jobs we finished. And Father,” Magni took a deep breath, “Father was too drunk to notice unless we did something wrong. And even when we did everything right, he’d take his anger out on us. Still would, I’m sure.” Magni pauses, taking a moment to trace the little horses, noticing the way you watched his fingers move across the teal metal, “I wear the horses because I want to carry those memories with me. I want to remember how mother and father used to be before it all went to shit. I want to believe things can be better again. Even at my very worst, all I had to do was remember those horses and I could remember what I was fighting for.“

“You think your parents can learn to be better?” You ask, running your thumb along the metalwork.

“I’d like to believe they can. With the right pressure.” Magni runs his fingers over the back of your hand, letting himself calm at the feeling of your warmth. “But I can’t carry that burden. I have to find my own way to be better.”

You sit there for a moment, feeling the weight of Magni’s words and enjoying the feeling of him tracing the back of your hand.

“Tell me some of the stories? The ones your parents told you?”

Magni meets your eye with a confused look; one that slowly melts into something warm and loving.

“I could do that, yes. Later though. I can tell you all the stories of my childhood after we eat. Let’s go make some dinner.”

You nod, setting Magni’s belt aside and taking his outstretched hand.

[lullabyofthejotnar]

Odin's character excels in terms of build-up (especially in 2018) and how he affects the world and characters around him: but once you get to the man himself, it's underwhelming to say the least. The most depth he gets are implications or skimmed over lore. Like his constant pursuit of knowledge and how he spent his entire life for The Mask, how he did so much for it and destroyed so many lives. Amazing piece of lore which barely gets explored, outside of serving as a way for Atreus to do something, and is easily ignored. Combined with how Odin is in an evil but seems charming mode all the time until he stabs Brok, a scene that kind of ruins imposTýr's previous build-up; it makes him look like a villain who's character is being evil just because and the writers making a check-list of every possible evil thing someone can do. Which is possibly one of my least favorite tropes ever. Maybe I'm blinded by how he is Norse Mythology (where Odin is shown to be pretty morally gray in some stories - at least by viking standarts), but I expected more. It's one of the few moments where I actually take look into the myths and mourn what could've been.

I wonder if how rushed the story towards the end is affected this, and if a third game could fix it. Though I don't really think it could help.

Now this part is purely based on my opinion, but I wish they made him somewhere deep down actually care about his worshippers/Asgardians, like it's implied with Thor's mother Fjörgyn. That could serve as a parallel to Atreus and make the boy wanting Odin to change his mind all more reasonable, and gives the scene right before Odin's death more to it.

Zeus and Odin have similiar roles in terms of being each mythology's final boss and to make them stand out from eachother, they were given have different writing approaches. Zeus really is a god in terms of him being the looming threat and unfamiliar authority over everything. You don't get too much into his personal desires and it works well. Even if it felt like that was needed, he makes it up with the build-up over the games and ends his reign with an extremely well done, memorable, rewarding final bossfight.

Meanwhile, Odin's tries to have the more personal, with "deeper" exploration of his motives approach. It ended up shooting itself in the foot. You get to known more about him, which only revealed there's not much to him than what he let on.

Odin did not need to surpass Zeus at all. Just look at Baldur, he didn't and I would consider him on the same level of being a great antagonist as Zeus. Baldur even has similiar writing approach to Odin - but does it much better.

My hot take is that Odin is the worst character in Ragnarok and the quest for Tyr was the real drag in the game and did nothing to really provide anything other than labor for the gamer/Atreus to see how “far he’ll go” with his curiosities. Everyone else fits their roles properly except him. He’s presented in a very cartoonish way and even dresses like such. Baldur and Heimdall are FAR better antagonists

[salmonpiffy]

I decided to unsub some GoW theory youtube channel.

A bit sad ‘cause I used to love their content sm, they did some great theories but after Raganrok…They always nitpicking or make jokes of Ironwood session being too long in their theory videos and it started to annoy me

Yes, they have right to say but it is so unnecessary in terms of theory video. I truly understand why they hate that session. Tbh I’m kinda felt that too while watching gameplay for the first time, but I be able to admire it later because of the narrative and characters. Like..come on! stop acting like it’s huge plague in GoW franchises. Atreus and Angrboda just want to have a good time. Just leave them alone!

….

And now I only have one good GoW theory channel left. So anyway, I would like to promote this guy. He’s very underrated. He did many great analysis and theories too.

[mangk0]

hearing the lullaby of the giants motif in gow2018 hits me in the chest literally every time, these fucking games have INCREDIBLE soundtracks im fucking floored dude. literally every time i heard it i would start kicking my feet anf my dad was like literally what is wrong w you. AND IM LIKE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND. ITS THE GIANTS. AND ATREUS IS RIGHT THERE. AUAAGAAGUAUGAUGAGU

AND CAN WE TALK ABOUT WHISPERED SOULS ON THE GOWR SOUNDTRACK IM RAAAAAHAGAHGAGFAGAGAGAGHGHGHGH

[kratioed]

𝐍𝐀𝐑𝐅𝐈 & 𝐕𝐀𝐋𝐈 , 𝐒𝐎𝐍𝐒 𝐎𝐅 𝐋𝐎𝐊𝐈

It’s clear that Hel will one day appear in future releases, as hinted in both GOW(2018) and GOWR, but anyone who is a myth enthusiast knows that Loki had other children besides his monstrous offspring in Norse Mythology because interestingly enough, GOW’s wiki community decided to include "Narfi & Váli" despite no evidence of their existence whatsoever throughout the Norse era.

Of course, it’s also a fandom site; while they can be a reliable source, said sources on their encyclopedia are sometimes inaccurate. Knowing the impossibility of their existence, I also thought about how they can coexist throughout GOW.

EDIT UPDATE 2/1/2024: Recently, the GOW's wiki community updated Atreus' "uncertain future" category and the links to Váli's & Narfi's wiki pages no longer existed. Doesn't mean it'll stop me from enjoying my fun. 😎🔥💯

EDIT UPDATE 7/22/2024: Nevermind, they're mentioned on Angrboða's wiki page for some reason…Váli & Narfi aren't the same as Fenrir & Jörmungandr ☝️🤓 but okay. ☠

And the more I thought about it, the more apparent it became that they’re essential for the franchise…but it’s more like my personal headcanon rather than my “crack” theory so might as well call this an AU for shits and giggles. I thought it would be fun to share my overly long detailed analysis with those who are fixated on Atreus’ other (im)possible children as much as I am because I need this to get it out of my system since they have been living rent-free in my head for almost a year just now. This blog is now officially a Narfi & Váli stan account and Kratos would have LOVED his grandsons if they ever appeared in GOW, but it's very unlikely that would happen. This analyis is going to be a long one so bear with me!

I think it would be poetic for GOW to end off including Narfi & Váli (alongside Atreus) for the final conclusion of the franchise; and yes, Hel would be an adult in this timeskip, contrary to popular belief that they were children in Norse Mythology. Despite their unfortunate demise, their backgrounds are nothing like their half-siblings’ in the Norse Mythos, making them the most ordinary of all Loki’s children. But you know what? The concept of Narfi & Váli being the epitome of normality of all Loki’s offspring gave me an a idea...I’m not sure if anyone has noticed, but Narfi & Váli exhibit some similarities to Kratos & Deimos.

Before the Olympians (Athena & Ares) pursued one of the brothers due to a doomsday prophecy, Kratos & Deimos believed they were mere mortals during childhood as they still fit the epitome of normality as children, similarly to Narfi & Váli. They’re also gods at birth, but the only difference is that Narfi & Váli most likely knew about their divine nature, whereas Kratos (excluding Deimos) only discovered it later in adulthood (a silly parallel, but I still think it counts).

Another example would be in the parallel dynamics of Váli & Kratos, as they both had experiences where they succumbed to their primal instincts in different circumstances; Váli unwillingly turned into a wolf and killed his brother driven by primal instincts under the Æsir’s (or presumably Odin’s) influence, almost similar to how Kratos was deceived and unaware, killed his first wife and daughter fueled by his primal desire for blood under Ares’ influence. While Váli’s fate remains unknown after Loki's Punishment, we can infer that both Váli & Kratos are the only survivors other than their brother.

While the deaths of Narfi & Deimos are an obvious parallel, they're also linked to Bounds and Punishment in distinct ways; like Váli, Narfi was punished with his entrails used as bounds in retribution against his father, as well as due to his relation with Loki while Deimos, on the other hand, was bound and punished due to his existence as the "Marked Warrior" (same thing goes with Kratos since he too was also bound and punished at one point in Ascension).

On top of that, they were also subjected to violence as children inflicted by Gods. Consequently, it ultimately led the downfall of both Æsir & Olympians, as predicted by their prophecy. The prophecy of the "Marked Warrior" bringing destruction upon Olympus began the moment they abducted Deimos. The sufferings of Kratos' family (including Sparta and Pandora) at the hands of Gods contributes the downfall of Olympus. Their tragedies are the major cause of Kratos' justified vengeance to destroy the entire pantheon, ultimately leading the devastation of the Greek world.

In Norse Mythology (with my limited knowledge); the Æsir's (mostly Odin's) retaliation on Loki's monstrous children, particularly Fenrir, due to prophecies contributes their downfall in Ragnarök, especially with their involvement in Loki's Punishment. However, I believe that the suffering of Narfi & Váli at the hands of Æsir Gods is the primary cause for Loki's justified desire for vengeance. The Æsir's use of Narfi's entrails, his own son, as restraints adds insult to injury, intensifying Loki's anger. Obviously, Loki joined forces with those against Æsir Gods with his army of Hel's people while the events of Ragnarök lead the devastation throughout the lands.

But since this is GOW, I found this YouTube comment (which I've kept for quite some time) that perfectly said my thoughts out loud:

With the absence of Loki's Punishment; not only Kratos saved Narfi & Váli from Æsir's (particularly Odin's) wrath, he also prevented a similar tragedy that would inflict upon his grandsons the same way that Gods once inflicted upon him and Deimos as children, in which, fits the overall theme of subverting prophecies in GOWR.

𝐍𝐀𝐌𝐄 𝐒𝐔𝐆𝐆𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐈𝐎𝐍

Santa Monica could have easily had Atreus name his sons "Narfi & Váli" as everyone expected from Norse Mythology. But given Santa Monica's innovative approach to myth characters through creative liberties, using "Narfi & Váli" wouldn't work within the narrative structure of GOW's distinct retelling of Folklore, especially the Prose Edda of all settings.

From what I've heard, there has been a debate about whether "Váli" is a son of Odin or Loki, or both Valis existed as sperate characters. Additionally, in GOWR, there's already a boss character named Vali (The Oath Guard), which I assumed (correct me if I'm wrong) it's a cultural practice for parents to name their child after a Norse figure in Scandinavian countries, but I find it unlikely for Atreus to name one of his children after an Æsir or any God in general. Similarly, Narfi shares a name with another Giant unrelated to Loki whatsoever...but given the wide variety of Gods and other myth characters we've seen from Greek Mythology depicted in GOW, it wouldn't be surprising if other Narfi, and particularly, Váli Odinson were to mentioned or featured in future releases.

If you're not aware or need a reminder, Atreus gets to learn about Deimos during "Animal Instincts" side quest. Whether you choose to bring Atreus or Freya doesn't matter, it doesn't change the fact that Santa Monica had intended for Atreus to know about his uncle, it's still canon either way.

Atreus' identity has roots that go beyond his Norse counterpart (both symbolically and narrative wise along with the origins of his Greek name) and very likely that Santa Monica would take a similar approach with "Hel" in future releases (I've seen people suggest her name could be Faye/Laufey or Calliope, or even Callisto or Angrboða's mother). It's only fair that "Narfi & Váli" should get the same treatment…so imagine how moving it would be if Atreus were to name his sons after Kratos & Deimos.

"Váli" 𝐊𝐑𝐀𝐓𝐎𝐒 𝐈𝐈, named after his grandfather, transformed from a monster into a benevolent God due to his ability to change and open his heart, representing the beacon of hope...and "Narfi" 𝐃𝐄𝐈𝐌𝐎𝐒 𝐈𝐈, named after his great uncle, whom Atreus had known but never met (but wishes they had), honored his uncle by naming his youngest son after him.

EDIT UPDATE 3/7/2024: Just recently discovered in Greek Culture, it's common for children to be named after their grandparents, in which, aligns with my case for "Váli" to be named after his grandfather! While "Narfi" is named after his great-uncle, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) the naming tradition also involves material/paternal relatives, which is fitting within the context of GOW. ^^

There are hearsay, or statements from Cory Barlog, that Kratos couldn't bring himself to name his son after his brother due to past memories…Atreus, on the other hand, seems open to the idea of naming one of his own children after his uncle he never met.

𝐍𝐀𝐑𝐅𝐈 & 𝐍𝐀𝐑𝐈/𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐌𝐈𝐒𝐓𝐑𝐀𝐍𝐒𝐋𝐀𝐓𝐈𝐎𝐍

Besides Narfi Lokison and other Narfi, their accounts become somewhat unclear when Narfi's brother is addressed as "Nari." This time, it's Narfi who turns into a wolf and kills Nari. However, some sources later changed Narfi's name to Váli, both in historical texts and modern media...

EDIT UPDATE 7/21/2024: Initially, I thought this version was made based on the notion that Váli was Odin's son rather than Loki's. But after some further investigation, I'm inclined to believe that Váli is a singular character while Narfi & Nari are Loki's sons. It's also possible that "Narfi/Nari" is referred as the same character, as the belief that Váli is Loki's son is a common mistake in today's media. It would have been so easy to overlook the mistranslation and go along with the usual understanding of "Narfi & Váli"…but thinking about it now, this could actually work within the narrative structure as prophecies are ambiguously depicted in GOWR.

How about this: "Váli & Narfi" (or "Narfi & Nari") can shapeshift into wolves. Not only it emphasizes their connection with Atreus/Loki, but as a reflection of Kratos & Deimos through Speki & Svanna.

EDIT UPDATE 7/26/2024: This might be a overreach...but if Kratos' presumption that Speki & Svanna were boys did reflect something, then it could be described as a projection of his experiences as a military general as well as an extension of subconscious affection. For Kratos' case, people form stronger bonds with animals than with human (and Gods) since often times they can be deceitful/malicious, conceited, narrow-minded, backstabbing, or calculatively manipulative through obligations/false promises while animals (wolves) would instead be much more pragmatic about survival and tender care.

Speki & Svanna (+Fenrir) have been usefully vigilant and reliable wolves that aid him and Atreus, and given the history of humans surviving in collaboration with animals, there is precedence for Kratos subconsciously associating the wolves with memories of Spartan warriors he had by his side almost as though they were his own family, where survival relied on the coordination of his armies and the care given to ensuring that his men were left standing after battle.

This can very easily be associated in the mind as symbolic of a dedicated and responsible soldier as a result from a pivotally formative part of his life revolved around the Sparta's military…and out of remorse (for the casualties of people under his care amidst the war he's wrought) and love (for those who've either perished or lived as well as the people who stood by him), it felt plausible that he could've associated this with Speki & Svanna (shout out to my irl friend for cooking this up!).

Regardless, I can also imagine this as a foreshadow of Kratos' doting relationship with his future grandsons!

𝐅𝐈𝐍𝐀𝐋 𝐂𝐎𝐍𝐂𝐋𝐔𝐒𝐈𝐎𝐍

EDIT UPDATE 7/21/2024: As much as I adore the relationship between Kratos and his grandsons, I personally think it would be better if they never met in person (rest assured, Hel is fortunate enough to know their grandfather as a child). As I mentioned before, Narfi & Váli should appear by the end of the franchise, and what better way to conclude Kratos' journey than being remembered as the benevolent God even after his death?

Kratos once quoted, "Death can have me, when it earns me" might foreshadow his potential death for the final installment. Given that Kratos had "died" in previous games and even evaded his predicted "death" in GOWR, I think it would be flitting to conclude his journey if the franchise comes to an end (in which, would have opted Atreus to name one of his sons after their grandfather). But it's just a personal theory of mine, so I digress.

Narfi & Váli serves as character foils for Kratos & Deimos, illustrating their childhood origins from Ghost of Sparta to the narrative's conclusion with Narfi & Váli emerging at the end. With wisdom gained from experiences and mistakes, Atreus, aged with greying hair, gazes at his sons and feels as if his father and uncle are reunited once again…relieving their childhood they never had as children.

If you made it this far, then congratulations! Here's a quick (and old) sketch of my variant of Váli would look like:

EDIT UPDATE 12/19/2024: Tried my best to replicate his facial structure. He's basically Kratos 2.0 with a decent childhood who smiles a lot more than his grandfather ever did in Sparta (he also has his grandfather's eyes and freckles from his father). Narfi, on the other hand, looks a lot more like his father with the iconic mark as a homage. They're basically Yuki & Ame (+Atreus w/Hana) from Wolf Children (I never watch the movie, but it's the vibes I'm get from them)! ^^

[angstandhappiness]

OMG YUM YUM

"Maja are you okay?"

No, I'm thinking about the fact that the scroll traps its victims in an endless hell of their worse memories and insecurities. I'm thinking about the fact that the visages of Wukong's old friends were all angry yet free, while Macaque's visage was trapped and restrained. I'm thinking about how the rest of them were spewing out angry taunts and jabs while Macaque's was a desperate plead of "why?"

I'm thinking.