#grimm summer rose theories

[anthurak]

Something to consider: if Salem's operating out of Beacon, we're probably going to get pay-off for whoever she had sifting through the ruins back in Volume 4 the first time we see Salem's inner circle in Volume 10.

As this character hasn't been MENTIONED in canon since Volume 4, I have a feeling a lot of people are PROBABLY going to get caught off guard by them suddenly showing up again.

So I've seen a fair bit of speculation on the 'mysterious unseen member of Salem's inner circle', and one thing I feel is worth noting is that at this point I don't think we can be sure if there even IS such a character. And rather that Salem was simply talking to the Grimm she has coming through the ruins. Simply because this one brief moment in this ONE scene is the ONLY evidence we have as to this 'character' even existing.

Not to mention that this brief moment already has a purpose in letting the audience know that Salem is looking for something in the ruins of Beacon (which in hindsight is the Vault of the Fall Maiden), and can't seem to find it. Meaning that it would hardly make the scene superfluous if it turned out who/whatever Salem was talking to isn't actually important.

All that all being said, if there IS in fact a 'mysterious unseen member of Salem's inner circle' who's been sifting through the ruins of Beacon for the past six volumes whom nobody has ever seen and will eventually be revealed...

Yeah, it's DEFINITELY Summer.

[downtofragglerock]

So, anyone wanna make bets that Summer’s failed assault on Salem is the reason Salem has those exposed veins now?

[lesbianseaweed]

RWBY THEORY

I know fairytales have different versions but in the version I've always heard of Little Red Riding Hood, when Little Red gets to her grandma's house, the wolf is already there, it ate the grandma and is now impersonating her. In the end the wolf is cut open and the grandma is inside.

So we know Salem is putting silver eyed people inside of grimm

And we know that Summer might be there too

So, by this logic, Summer Rose could the grandma

Meaning that there's a chance that, in the future of the series we might get a Grimm impersonating Summer and/or Summer alive(?) inside the Grimm

[storm-of-feathers]

okay so my very old theory since like volume 6 when silver eyes were explained was that summer tried to use her silver eyes to wash the grimm out of salem, and got killed in the process. thats why salem knows EXACTLY WHO SUMMER IS and why ruby is so so recognizable as the spitting image of her.

"if i do this right, there's nothing to worry about" whatever it was, summer thought she was the only one who could do it. and raven helped her and has kept that secret for years.

whatever raven saw happen to summer is what ultimately broke her and made her more scared of salem than anyone. because she saw salem tear summer apart. thats why raven gave up. if summer fucking rose couldnt do it, no one can.

[chaikachi]

Little Red Riding Hood, The Big Bad Wolf, & The Silver Bullet

Aka I did an Oscar as The Little Prince analysis and now I wanna do one for Ruby's allusion in honour of the 10th Anniversary.

I know most if not all of us are familiar, but I'm still going to start with a summary.

Little Red is a story about a young girl in a red cloak who is sent into the woods at her mother's behest to bring baked goods to her sick grandmother. There, she meets a malicious wolf that asks her many questions, to which she answers all truthfully and without hesitation. The wolf takes this information and uses it to beat the girl to her destination where he then swallows her grandma whole and disguises himself in the woman's clothes. There he waits for the child to arrive and come closer so he can swallow her up too.

There are actually two popular versions of this story with different endings that we often look back to.

In Perrault's story, there is no happy ending. They're both eaten up, the wolf is content. The end. But in the Grimm version, there is an additional character... the Huntsman (aka the woodsman). He hears the wolf snoring after its meal and ends up cutting the beast open & saving the victims. Then, with the help of Little Red Riding Hood, he kills the wolf before it can do anymore harm.

All in all, it's a story about childhood innocence being lost, learning not to trust strangers, and being mindful to always follow the correct path. For if you stray too far, you may lose track of time, invite unwanted danger, or find yourself lost.

In RWBY, we have some very clear allusions here since it's the basis for so much of the show as a whole:

Little Red - Ruby Rose

The Mother - Summer Rose

The Grandmother - Maria

The Hunstman/Woodsman - All Three of Them

The Wolf - Salem and her Grimm (but ESPECIALLY The Hound)

They're all pretty self explanatory.

Ruby has the red cloak, her og trailer is clearly inspired by the tale, she loves baked goods, she's referred to as "Red" and "Little Red" by Torchwick & Cinder. She's also a huntress. And, by and large, her entire arc is about losing that childhood innocence and the view that life "is like a fairytale" as well as struggling with what the "right path" to follow is.

Summer is the mother (baker of cookies) and also the huntsman (slayer of giant monsters). The battle axe being her weapon choice alludes well to the alternate name, Woodsman, as well.

While Maria as the grandmother makes the most sense. Another silver eyed huntress that becomes a mentor figure for Ruby.

And while Salem, her war, & the Grimm (that are all emblematic of that loss of innocence) can absolutely symbolize the wolf... There's a reason why I want to focus on The Hound.

All three previous characters are connected by a very specific common denominator: Silver Eyes.

And the hound is no different.

Just another huntsman... but one devoured by the malice of a canine. And, if Ruby's theory is right, that's the same fate that Summer met as well.

And if you think about Silver Eyes specifically... What is one of the most famous lines from the original fairytale?

"My, what big eyes you have grandmother." "The better to see you with, my dear."

Which, when applied to the grimmification of SEWs, is HAUNTING.

Terrifying when you remember "Woah... you have silver eyes". Also thanks to Behind The Scenes content, that Ruby's hair design was always meant to "be a bit wolf-y". And that since Volume 4, Salem has been interested in capturing Ruby alive... I am WORRIED ABOUT HER.

Some interesting things about silver though that ARE worth noting...

1. "In folklore, a bullet cast from silver is often one of the few weapons that are effective against a werewolf or witch."

2. "The term silver bullet is also a metaphor for a simple, seemingly magical, solution to a difficult problem."

3. "In the Brothers Grimm fairy-tale of The Two Brothers, a bullet-proof witch is shot down by silver buttons, fired from a gun."

The lyric "Yeah I'm a girl but I'm also a gun" from Triumph really tells us point blank (lol) why Ruby is so important to this war against Salem, huh.

I'm gonna end this meta on a fun little easter egg; a hidden fifth character allusion to the original Red Riding Hood fairytale: The Woods.

Now I know what you're thinking, the woods aren't a person, they're a location. But they're INCREDIBLY important to the story.

Overall, the woods are the world outside of the cabin that Little Red grows up in. Whenever she travels beyond it, she's liable to meet all sorts of horrible tragedies and monsters. But I want to talk again specifically about The Hound & just where Ruby first meets them: Atlas.

Or, more specifically, Ironwood's kingdom.

For those unfamiliar, while Jimmy's main allusion is the Tin Man from Oz, his last name gives us a hint to another subtle allusion: Járnviðr. Aka the Iron Wood of Midgard in Norse Mythology (a mythos that's been alluded to a lot in RWBY).

Whiiich if you look at a stanza (40) in the infamous Völuspá, a historic poem which is chalk full of Norse myths, you get the following passage:

In the east sat an old woman in Iron-wood and nurtured there offspring of Fenrir a certain one of them in monstrous form will be the snatcher of the moon

A poem that talks all about the Biggest Baddest Wolf of the Norse pantheon, Fenrir... who is the offspring of a powerful Witch...

and is destined to eat the moon...

All within the Iron Wood, a character Ruby spends an entire volume contemplating on whether or not she can trust...

And the moment she does finally tell Ironwood the truth? The secrets she was keeping? The woods become unsafe, the witch and the wolf appear, and everything else falls apart. Resulting her and her team lost and very far from home.

Say what you want about analyses like these but CRWBY knows what they're doing, okay?

[normalest-of-knees]

I cannot fathom what the plot of V10 would even be if it really does become the final season.

Like, regardless if that's really what's gonna happen or not, IF V10 even happens, I'm just thinking hypothetically.

We just had an entire Volume of nothing of actual importance happen, and then.....????????

Sure, we saw some shit with Summer. But all that really did was provide more questions and kinda just stoke people's already ongoing theories and such.

Even learning about The Tree and the Gods and such was meaningless, and our characters didn't actually grow in any meaningful way.

So it really boils down to: V8 had all Hell break loose, the main cast and 1 cockroach fall into the void, Salem got 2 relics, and an entire Kingdom and then some got dumped onto another in the middle of a sandstorm.

Then the characters from the Void just show up to continue the plot.

So I'm really struggling to see what could possibly get resolved in any meaningful way...

Cuz we still have:

Tyrian & Mercury already at Vacuo

The relic from Beacon still not found

No idea how to actually beat Salem

The possible merging of Oscar & Oz

Winter being a Maiden

The summer Maiden still not heard of or seen

Summer Rose and whatever the fuck happened there

Raven, as she is still a Maiden and a charceter that SHOULD have relevance, especially now with the news of the Summer Secret

Silver Eyes to actually be relevant to the plot

SEWs being made into Grimm

Where is Pietro & Maria

Penny's death & Jaune's part in it actually being addressed (saying "they talked about it off screen" doesn't count)

Neo's whole thing

And just so much more.... like SO much more!

There's 2 main ways (that may just kinda merge into 1) the heros could win as things stand: The villains keep screwing themselves over or switching sides and end up helping (intentionally or not) to defeat Salem, or, they toss Salem into a portal that sends her directly to the Tree in Ever After and she's forced to Ascend 😑

Awful bonus points if it's Jaune that pushes her.

Like...... even with a whole Volume of content, I really don't see a satisfying conclusion or one that even really makes sense.

I'm kinda hoping they don't even try to make a finale. If it dies here and now, it'd be a mercy

[strqyr]

Me just chewing on the Summer working with Salem theory. Just... As someone else pointed out Summer is the only stepmother we've seen in the entire show about fairytales. And very specifically Yang has both abandonment issues and the family absolutely imploded when Summer died or "died". Bonus that's messed up points: Raven at least occasionally visits as a raven. I'm all for this theory because oh it makes sense and it finally puts the spotlight on the family implosion.

More on the whole Summer Rose possibly joining Salem makes the whole STRQ situation stupidly complex - Yang and Ruby nearly ended up Grimm chow because went looking for Raven. Qrow saved them - but given Raven's semblance she possibly could have also. Or what I'm saying is that I'm considering the option that Raven's reintroduction to the narrative is her bailing out RWBY after they come across Summer working for Salem. Because Raven is extremely set up for high powered evac from nowhere.

my mind always goes back to red like roses part ii bc with every new revelation that make the picture just a little bit more clearer, the more relevant it becomes. i made a sacrifice but forced a bigger sacrifice on you is often read as "summer took a risk going against salem and died trying to end this war once and for all, and thus the weight of being the simple, more honest soul fell on ruby" but reading it in the light of summer working with salem, and it becomes "summer made a sacrifice by essentially faking her own death and never making any contact with her family, perhaps hoping that one day she could return to them when it's all over, but in doing so forced ruby, the little girl with silver eyes, her own daughter, into the spotlight" which i find 100x more interesting characterwise.

and god is the reveal going to have an impact on the whole family; the comparisons between summer and raven are apt bc so far, they could have not been spoken more differently about, but the more the curtains get peeled back, the more similar they become (not the same, never the same, but i do think summer and raven are more similar to each other than even they themselves may think). and it's so interesting bc we know how the family was affected after summer's alleged death (at least from yang's perspective) but nothing after raven left other than they all eventually moved on and what tai said about it doing a number on their family (which rings odd when the focus has been more on how they were handling things post-summer's 'death' rather than raven's departure).

the bridging of the gap between heroes and monsters is already well on its way; a world is a lot more complex than a simple black-and-white morality might suggest, being a hero and doing good doesn't equal never failing, people you trust or don't trust can both be right about one thing and wrong about another, everything that ruby is going through mirrors plenty of villains, it's just a matter of perspective, etc; finding out that summer, the best of the heroes the world has to offer, is working with salem is definitely going to speed things up even further.

i'm not willing to try and predict when raven is going to come back properly (i.e. excluding potential summer flashbacks) bc, well. she's kind of unpredictable. like, her first appearance was 'foreshadowed' by yang talking about her family to blake, but that was as much about summer as it was about raven, and what it left us with was "yang is searching for her mom", not "her mom is going to drop in out of nowhere to save yang."

like the setup is there, the warrior in the woods made it clear—"next time you enter the woods, you're on your own." -> "i knew you'd still come to my rescue." is not being subtle—but it could also do with summer potentially going to ask for raven's help during her final mission that took a turn, and. ya know. "promises are like birds; they taste great, but always escape." or something like that. idk.

i jinxed myself not so long ago by saying that i don't think any of my long running, serious theories are going to get proven or debunked this volume and now i've been told to buckle up and the strq brainworms are having a unannounced party that has kept going way past into the quiet hours.

like. ten years of waiting and i might actually get all of team strq in the same episode this saturday? trying to keep my expectations in check but also i might just cry.

[littlemisssquiggles]

Y’know what would be unintentionally ironic but somewhat expected?

If V9 ended on a cliffhanger with RWBYJ returning from the Ever After and reuniting with their comrades on the other side only to learn that Oscar was missing…again.

As us Pineheads in the RWBY community are aware of, it is literally a meme at this point for Oscar Pine to go missing/end up lost at some point during a season. The only two seasons he didn’t go missing in are V4 and V5---the two seasons he was introduced in. V4 being his debut season and V5 being the first time he met the hero team. So on that front, those seasons don’t count.

But for the seasons following:

V6--- Oscar went missing in Argus following a scuffle with Jaune.

V7--- Oscar went missing in Atlas after getting separated from JNR thanks to Neo, shot to his death by General Ironwood only to end up down in Mantle

V8--- Oscar went missing in Mantle after getting kidnapped by the Hound and taken to Monstra to be tortured by Salem and Hazel; leading his comrades on a mission to save him.

I wasn’t kidding when I said Oscar is literally the wandering sheep of the hero team once upon at time. They keep losing him in some shape or form each volume. So I feel like it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch if Ruby and the others came back to Remnant to learn from the others that Oscar is missing yet again, probably for some time after running away and disappearing into the desert in a desperate attempt to find the missing RWBYJ.

Oscar draws inspiration from the little prince fairy-tale character and part of the prince’s story took place in a desert where he found himself lost along with the Pilot as company.

 Let’s say…learning the news that RWBYJ all disappeared following the attack at the portal devastated Oscar.

So much so, that even after meeting with the allies in Vacuo and arriving safely at Shade Academy, Oscar wanted to return to the desert to search for their missing comrades; wanting to believe they were still alive somehow.

But since Vacuo was under siege thanks to Salem’s forces attacking Shade Academy for the Summer Maiden and the Relic of Destruction, the other huntsmen had exhausted themselves and their resources trying to defend the school and its kingdom to the point that they could no longer focus on finding a few missing huntsmen when they were trying to protect the lives of many innocent people.

So ultimately, Oscar is given no other choice than to go off on his own to find RWBYJ. I also have this theory of Oscar finding Mercury in the desert after he was presumed left for dead by Tyrian Callows.

My theory is that Tyrian would double cross Mercury as soon as they arrived in Vacuo, believing him to be a potential traitor to Salem or something along those lines.

Perhaps Oscar and Mercury end up bonding which ultimately leads to them being forced to join forces as Tyrian returned to finish Mercury off and take Oscar to Salem with an army of Grimm Beringels in his stead.

And as us Pineheads are also aware of, in the original Little Prince tale, the prince was poisoned by a snake with his story ending on the presumption that he died and was never able to reunite with his beloved rose.

It wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to have Oscar be poisoned by Tyrian since he is a Scorpion Faunus.

But unlike his fairytale counterpart, Oscar will get to reunite with his rose as Ruby, in her reborn form, would come find and save him in the desert leading to a emotionally heartfelt reunion between them.

Or so I’d like to imagine.

I mean I could end up being very much wrong about Oscar disappearing at all.

But at the same time, I also wouldn’t be too surprised if I’m correct in my assumption because let's just face it, these CRWBY showrunners just love to write this former farm boi as a lost boy.

Shoot I predict Oscar being in danger at least twice if there was to be a V10 since he's still needed alive by Salem inorder to reveal the true location of the Chamber of Choice---the final relic.

So sorry Pineheads, we got some more worrying to do for our boy moving forward. But if it leads to more potential moments between him and his rose, I'd say it'd be worth the added angst.

~LMS (2023)

[tumblezwei]

There are three theories that the FNDM will never let go of until the show ends for good

1. Qrow is definitely gonna die this volume guys for sure he is

2. [X] character is Neo in disguise

3. This unique type Grimm is actually Summer Rose

[ficretus]

Theory: Speculating about Summer Maiden

So far Summer Maiden is the only Maiden we have no whereabouts of. Not even Vacuo novels provide anything about her or her Relic. I wanted to throw some thoughts around who I think will be Summer Maiden by the end of the Vacuo arc.

CURRENT SUMMER MAIDEN:

As I said, no idea. But let me get one thing out the way, I don't think Summer Rose is Summer Maiden or that she'll be at any point in the story. This might seem relatively weird considering so far characters with season in their name did eventually become Maiden of their respective season, but I don't think this is the case with Summer.

First of all, it would be bit random considering that power is tied to Vacuo and Summer herself doesn't have any Vacuo connections we know of. Second, it is somewhat implied that Summer is still alive, likely being Salem's Grimm experiment. If Summer was Summer Maiden and is under Salem's control, why would Salem bother with Cinder? Summer would be loyal subordinate that is second to none in combat. Why would you need to groom new subordinate of questionable loyalty and lesser combat ability? Third, in case she isn't Summer Maiden and is just one of Salem's thralls, I don't think she can inherit the power. Chronologically she'd be in late 30s or even 40s, making her too old to inherit the power.

For Summer to be Summer Maiden, it would mean she became one ages ago and isn't currently under Salem's control (because that kind of creates plot holes in Salem's plan). But I feel that both kind of damages her character (she becomes another Raven, abandoning her family for her own goals) and wastes implications Hound creates. I think her fate will be revealed during Vacuo arc, during summer portion of the story, if that makes sense.

I suspect we'll have another Amber or Fria situation with current Summer Maiden. As in, minimally established character that will give away their power to more important character narrative wise down the line.

GATHERING CLUES:

First place I looked into is The Four Maidens, in universe fairy tale about Maidens. For those uninitiated, it's a fairy tale about recluse Old Wizard being visited by girls representing Maidens. They visit him in sequence of Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall, each teaching him valuable lesson.

Maiden lessons are key part to focus on here. While in the story, they are something Old Wizard has to learn, in RWBY it's something Maidens themselves have to learn.

For example, Winter appears in front of Old Wizard's house, sitting in state of absolute tranquility. Wizard sits down and copies her example thinking about his own strange predicament. This somewhat matches Winter, who in her own moment of clarity realizes Ironwood is lost cause and turns against him.

Other two examples are much clearer parallels. Spring shows up and plants flowers all over Old Wizard's yard, turning a pile of dirt into beautiful garden. This implies Spring Maiden is all about fostering life. This matches well as a lesson Raven needs to learn as a Spring Maiden, someone who both abandoned her family and used her protege as a decoy.

Fall Maiden urges Old Wizard to be thankful for what he has. This matches Cinder who needs to learn to be grateful for what she already has, instead of seeking out all other Maiden powers.

Summer Maiden convinces Old Wizard to step outside. Upon doing so, Old Wizard starts laughing at himself for even staying indoors all this time. So whoever becomes Summer Maiden needs to have a flaw that makes them distrustful of the world. Their character arc needs to be about opening themselves to the world.

______________________________________________________________

All three current Maidens also have personal connection to the members of Team RWBY. This is either set up for eventual transfer of power to respective members of Team RWBY or they simply exist as dark reflections of respective team members.

Raven is Yang's mother, Winter is Weiss' sister and Cinder is Ruby's nemesis. This mean, whoever will be Summer Maiden needs to have some kind of connection to Blake.

______________________________________________________________

Lastly, all three current Maidens were at some point of the story antagonists. Winter was an antagonist during the portion of Atlas arc as Ironwood's most loyal subordinate, Raven was antagonist throughout most of Mistral arc and Cinder is still major antagonist. So whoever becomes Summer Maiden had to have been antagonist at some point of the story.

CANDIDATES:

First candidate I have is Gillian Asturias, one of the main villains of Vacuo novels. She is leader of villainous Crown faction, who seek to restore Vacuoan monarchy with Gillian in charge. She believes she is descendant of legendary Vacuoan kings, albeit this claim is based on delusion her father convinced her of.

Why do I think she might become Summer Maiden? First of all, she is an antagonist. While at the end of the novel, she gets imprisoned... it's RWBY prison, nobody stays there. Her Semblance allows her to siphon Aura which theoretically means she could take the power all by herself (since all transfer methods we've seen so far were Aura based). She also has a motive to become a Maiden, what better way to show you are true heir to the throne then seizing divine power that allows you to control the elements.

She also fits with Summer Maiden lesson. She is extremely traditionalist, avoiding the use of both Dust and Scroll. Crown members are also xenophobic to some degree. Both of these traits make her good candidate for a lesson about opening yourself to the world.

Issue with her is that she has no connections to any member of Team RWBY. While it's not out the question they might eventually interact, I am doubtful writers will have her establish some really personal relationship with Blake. I think she might become Summer Maiden, but more of a interim Maiden like Penny was.

______________________________________________________________

My preferred choice so far is Ilia. She matches all the criteria I've set up earlier. First of all, she is a former antagonist. Second, she matches well with lesson of Summer Maiden. As an antagonist, she was member of more radical version of White Fang that was no longer about Faunus equality and more about their supremacy. This "us versus them" mentality symbolically parallels Old Wizard refusing to leave his house, closed off from everybody else.

Summer Maiden lesson can also be manifested in another way. If you think about it, it's almost inevitable White Fang will appear in Vacuo to assist the good guys. And who else will be there? Ace Ops. Ilia will be forced to work side by side with people who represent abuse she suffered as a child. This could create interesting dynamic of Ilia and White Fang refusing to cooperate with them, creating an issue for good guys cause (in fact you can have entire Volume 10 be about previously opposed sides coming to terms with each other for the greater good considering you'll have Ace Ops, Happy Huntresses, White Fang and potentially even Branwen tribe all working together). Her character arc would be about letting go of her hatred and trauma and opening herself to the world, fulfilling the Summer Maiden lesson.

Of course, Ilia is also personally connected to Blake. Yeah, she is "just" her friend, but when you think about it, that's the most personal relationship Blake has outside of her team. Unlike her other team members, she doesn't have a sister, her mother is too old to inherit the power and her nemesis was not only male... he is busy being dead. Ilia becoming a Maiden would also diversify the roster by giving us Faunus Maiden. After all, if all kingdoms are coming together why not also have that symbolically reflected in Maiden roster.

_____________________________________________________________

What are your thoughts? Do you have any other Maiden candidate you think is more likely? If you do, feel free to comment it.

[anthurak]

Okay, HOLY SHIT guys. I just realized how Summer could have gotten into the Ever After!

We KNOW that Summer encountered Salem. And we have a pretty good idea that it was because of this encounter that Salem started trying to create Grimm-hybrid with Silver Eyed Warriors. Meaning that we can assume that Summer was most likely captured and experimented on by Salem.

So what if, as part of her first round of ‘hybrid experiments’, Salem THREW SUMMER IN ONE OF THE GRIMM POOLS?

Salem likely realized at this point that the Silver Eyes were powers originating from the God of Light, much like her own curse of immortality. So she was probably curious whether Summer would turn out like she did when she threw herself into that pool all those millennia ago.

But Summer WASN’T like Salem was. Instead, when she was thrown into the pool, her Silver Eyes activated in response to the grimm material. The essence of Light reacted with the essence of Dark.

A reaction which transported Summer to a realm that was created and maintained by both those powers: The Ever After.

And that’s ALSO why Blacksmith!Summer looks the way she does now after undergoing ‘ascension’. All that metal plating and mask is meant to HIDE the fact that she became part-Grimm just like Salem!

[kaen-ace-of-diamonds]

How Summer Rose Became The Werewolf MILF We All Didn’t Know We Needed

I drank the werewolf wine again so now you’re all going to hear about the Summer Rose Grimm werewolf agenda —

OKAY. So we have presumably all noticed the show’s Highly Suspicious way of never saying that Summer actually died: it’s always “took,” “left,” “lost,” “gone,” etc. We’re just going to accept it as a fact that she’s alive.

(To be clear, I don’t believe Summer is or has ever been in the Ever After, considering the questionable reality of the Blacksmith’s first appearance/the effects of Ruby’s mental state on her surroundings in the second.) 

In the past, I’ve flirted with the theories that Summer is A) stuck in suspended animation at the bottom of a Grimm pool, or B) trapped as a prisoner in Evernight while Salem feeds off the residual magic in her body, but in recent times I’ve come to be backing the horrible bastard child of both theories.

C) Summer was Grimmified after failing to defeat Salem and, her spirit entirely broken, is now working as her right-hand werewolf to help her end the world because she believes putting Remnant out of its misery is her only option.

Stay with me, here we go.

First off  — Why did Summer go to Evernight in the first place?

As Qrow told us, nobody but Summer knows why she left on her last mission, which was apparently not one that Ozpin assigned her. And as Salem told us, when she met and defeated Summer, Summer told her some variation of, “We don't have to kill you to stop you. And we will stop you.”

Silver eyes don’t just kill Grimm. They can also freeze them in permanent stasis. What if Summer got it into her head that she could try and stop Salem that way? Hell, maybe she could even vaporize the Grimm pits along with her! Oz doesn’t believe that she can be stopped directly, only held off, so I don’t believe that that’s a plan of action he would have tried. 

But Qrow was right about Summer: she takes the information that Oz gave her, and takes it further. Salem must be killing Silver-Eyed Warriors for a reason: the most obvious one must be that her powers are the key to defeating her. And even leaving aside the very good chances that the only other Silver-Eyed Warrior she knows is her toddler daughter...

She’s the leader, isn’t she? The hero. She’s supposed to take care of everything, help everyone. Now that the idea occurred to her, how is she supposed to turn her back on a whole world that needs her?

(Ruby, with the deepest of sighs: “unfortunately, same hat, Mom”)

If she succeeds, the world will be safe, forever. Her daughters will never have to go through what she and her team have, make the kind of choices she has to make now.

So without her boss or her teammates’ knowledge, off Summer goes to Battle Tendency this bitch, hoping against hope that she’s finally found the answer.

Raven, sitting judgmentally in a tree watching her go:

What happened at Evernight?

We can all guess where this went.

Summer at the door of Evernight Castle:

Salem, who was enjoying a nice cup of tea and a book before this human came trying to assassinate her: what the fuck is going on down there

Summer tries to fight her and quickly finds out that she’s in over her head: Salem gives her the bad news that, surprise, she can’t be killed, didn’t Ozpin tell you, girl?

He did not, but Summer keeps trying: she doesn’t need to kill her to stop her, after all.

I have an image of her managing to Silver-Eye the Grimm out of Salem, and Salem diving right back into the pool of Destruction to power herself up again, but I’ve got no evidence to back that up, I just think that’s what would horrify poor Summer the most. 

In the struggle, Summer gets thrown into the Grimm pool too, but to her own horror and Salem’s surprise, it doesn’t kill her like it would any other human.

Divine cannot kill the divine, only alter it. Because of the God of Light’s power inside her, the Grimm pool doesn’t kill Summer, but transforms her into a Grimm hybrid. Salem hasn’t been shocked in eons, but she certainly is watching this horror unfold in front of her.

Salem realizing she can do something new with this interesting little anomaly: 

Summer: [SCREAMS OF THE ETERNALLY DAMNED]

Grimm Symbolism

First of all, in “The End of the Beginning,” the scene cuts straight from Summer’s grave, which we know damn well is empty, to Evernight:

It’s pretty obvious where Summer went, and where she actually is.

Second of all, it was pointed out to me that not only does the Grimm color scheme match Team RWBY’s (red, white, yellow, and black are the only ones visible on all of the Grimm), but Summer’s as well:

So far as I can tell, Summer and the Grimm are the only characters to incorporate all four colors into their designs. In any other show I would ignore that, but in RWBY, color symbolism is everything, so it deserves at least a mention.

Does she still have her powers?

That’s completely up in the air for me, and no possible option is any better than the others for Grimm!Summer.

Option 1: she still has her Silver Eyes, but can’t actually use their power.

Option 2: she still has her Silver Eyes, and is still able to use her powers, but at the cost of badly hurting herself thanks to her new, vulnerable Grimm body.

Option 3: she doesn’t have her Silver Eyes at all anymore, and forget about the powers: a Grimm can’t use anti-Grimm abilities by its very nature.

I’m also still up in the air as to what her eyes might look like now that she’s transformed. Personally, I’m picturing her with silver eyes with black sclera: a full moon in a pure black night.

On the other hand, if her eyes were turned red like a Grimm’s or Salem’s, that’s a blood moon!

Why do you think any of this in the first place? Why couldn’t she just be a Hound?

Because of the Unspoken Plan Guarantee. Ruby’s already caught on that something is going on:

So it’s all but guaranteed that when we finally meet Summer, it’s going to be a whole lot worse than what Ruby’s already assuming. 

Right now, Ruby thinks that the worst possible way she can find her mother is as a mindless Hound. So the show is going to have to bump the stakes of her eventual reveal up considerably in order to keep it a good surprise. If the audience is already clued into the fact that she’s been transformed into a Grimm, the twist will be that unlike the Hound, she’s kept her mind and is working for Salem willingly. 

(Incidentally, this is also the reason why not just anyone other than Oz can destroy Salem: because Nora brought that exact possibility up in “A Night Off”):

...Okay, but why a fucking werewolf?

I’m glad you asked! Not only do werewolves absolutely fuck but there is a boatload of symbolism backing up the idea. 

Wolf Symbolism

Among all the corvids and dragons running around in this family, it’s easy to overlook the general wolfiness surrounding Summer and Ruby both, from several different directions.

Little Red Riding Hood

It’s been obvious from volume 1 that one of Ruby’s allusions is Little Red Riding Hood. So isn’t it suspicious that, in volume 9, we’ve seen neither hide nor hair of her Big Bad Wolf?

Clearly, none of the villains we’ve seen so far fit, not even the Hound, who didn’t have the autonomy and was finished off too quickly to be on the wolf’s level. Especially if she ascends to become the Woodsman of her own story as well, it’s long past time for that story’s villain to show up. Summer tried to become the Woodsman herself, taking her axe and slaying the villain so Red Riding Hood could live in peace, but was consumed by and became the Wolf instead.

(And since we do have one character who fits pretty well into the role of Red’s grandmother, who is also eaten by the Wolf...sorry, Maria, I think if you meet Summer you’re going the way of Obi-Wan.)

Odin’s Wolves

Qrow and Raven allude to Huginn and Muninn, the two ravens that Odin uses to gather knowledge from around the world, just as Ozpin gave the Branwens shapeshifting magic so they could serve as his spies. But there were four students on the team he gave special attention. What might Summer and Tai allude to in relation to Oz?

Well, Odin didn’t just have two ravens, he created two wolves as well: Geri and Freki, both of whose names translate to “greedy,” “voracious,” “gluttonous,” and such. They ran out to consume the corpses left on the battlefield (sometimes guided by Huginn and Muninn) and guide fallen souls to Valhalla, relying on Odin to give them meat rather than hunting for themselves.

Spying is only one part of a successful campaign: once you have the tactical information, you’ve got to make use of it. We’ve heard little if anything of what Summer and Tai were doing for Oz, but it’s pretty reasonable to guess that once Qrow and Raven gathered important intel, it was Summer and Tai who were dispatched to handle the situation.

Even if Summer and Tai weren’t actually given wolf shapeshifting magic, their teamwork with Raven and Qrow could easily still fit the roles of Odin’s birds and wolves.

It tracks with the real-life behavior of ravens and wolves as well:

What Do You Know About Summer Rose, Raven Branwen

Tell Us

She Has The Other Half Of Your Bracers, Raven

In addition, it has also been pointed out that Geri and Freki have more destructive counterparts: Hati and Sköll (”one who hates” and “one who mocks”), who in some versions of Norse mythology chase the moon and sun through the sky so they can eat them during Ragnarok, ending the world. (Some sources have them as the wolf Fenrir’s children, but as far as I can tell it’s not a definite thing.)

And who do we know around here who are directly symbolized by the moon and sun?

Speaking of which...

Ruby’s In On It, Too

To round all this off, according to RTX 2013′s RWBY art panel, Ruby was originally designed to be “kinda wolfy,” with gray hair that flipped up like ears/hackles to look "wild and wolf-like.”

It’s Beowolves that she’s shown fighting in the Red Trailer, and she has Beowolf models overlooking her bed:

And, more recently: what did she dress up as for Halloween (her birthday!) in the official merch?

The question is, what purpose does this imagery serve? Because Ruby’s wolfishness hasn’t been brought up directly in the show, much unlike other characters’ more blatant imagery. If this theory is correct, it’s to connect her to her Big Bad Wolf mom.

Ruby shares a certain other category of imagery with her mother as well...

Moon Symbolism

This is the more obvious symbolism associated with Summer and Ruby, just like Tai and Yang are associated with the sun. Right from the Red Trailer, the two of them have always been associated with the moon, especially the full moon. 

The moon is also notably brought up in several song lyrics in ways that could be very relevant as well — “The moon will sadly watch the roses die,” “Rising like the moon,” “Our path was clear / The moon watched safely from above", "Enemies arise and the hate is flowing / Shattering the moon and bloodying the sky,” “When there's no more light / and the moon should crumble” — but I’m not good enough at analyzing songs to go too in depth on that point.

Now, remember the pool of Destruction that Salem jumped into that turned her Grimm in the first place? What was reflected in it again?

[Eggman voice] THE MOOOOOOOOON

I might note here that my character tag for Summer isn’t “dead Moon Mom,” it’s “Dead Moon mom”: we can still swing it so that one of her character allusions is the Dead Moon (or Buried Moon, as it’s called in some versions) of English folklore.

How it goes is basically: the Moon protects travelers through England’s bogs with her light, but when she hears that without it, the people are attacked by evil creatures of the night, she descends to Earth to try and solve the problem, clad in a black hooded cloak. In saving a lost traveler, her light attracts the creatures, who bury her alive in the bog. 

The traveler eventually leads the worried people back to the bog to save the Moon, but Summer’s journey to save humanity from the Creatures of Grimm with the light of her Silver Eyes doesn’t go quite as well. She’s still buried in the bog, trapped in the body of a Grimm hybrid.

To sum it all up, combine a wolf with the full moon and what do you get?

WEREWOLF, MOTHERFUCK

So where is Summer now?

In the one place we haven’t gotten a proper look at yet. 

“Reinforce our numbers at Beacon. The Relic is there.”

It didn’t seem to me like Salem was talking to a Grimm there. Like with Leo in volume 5, somebody is on the other side of that conversation. Summer just isn’t too inclined to answer verbally: she loathes her master, but has no choice but to stay under her control.

It’s also been pointed out that Team STRQ is the Team RWBY that failed and broke down; specifically, Summer is the Ruby that lost hope and gave up, that was utterly shattered and didn’t go to the therapy dimension about it. 

The Hound(s) are an experiment, by Salem’s own description: a weapon not quite as mindless as the average Grimm but not as resentful as Summer. As a wolf, Summer is a step above them, the perfected version that Salem has been trying to recreate ever since accidentally acquiring her. 

Summer’s last ditch effort to save the world was so thoroughly crushed, every possible solution she thought to helping the ones she loves most completely lost. With those gone, the only thing she has left to offer her family and the world is the mercy of a quick death. So that’s what she’s going to give them; and to that end, here she is at the end of Salem’s leash, still fighting to end suffering in the only way she believes she can anymore.

She’s not going to be happy at all to find out that her daughters became Huntresses to follow in her footsteps (”but, baby, please don’t do what I did” / “I don’t want you to waste your life in vain” and all that), and Ruby and Yang are going to be even less happy to find out that not only is their mom alive but is now evil and wants to kill them before Salem can do worse to them. 

Absolutely nobody is happy at that family reunion except Salem, who’s watching the continued befuckening of her favorite lapdog’s life with wine and popcorn. 

How are they going to beat her?

Don’t let that header fool you, I have no actual conclusion to this post. My only solid idea re: how the actual Rose-Xiao Long-Branwen family fight might actually go is that Summer can’t be one-shotted by Ruby’s Silver Eyes like any other Grimm. She can be temporarily hurt by them, but being a Silver-Eyed Warrior herself, they can’t permanently damage, freeze, or kill her.

Cinder, rage quitting: OH COME ON THAT’S NOT FUCKING FAIR

[bridgyrose]

Since I never ended up making the post yesterday due to a few things that came up...

My theory still stands that Ruby is going to have to shed the Ruby Rose she is to figure out the Ruby Rose she wants to be. And by that, I mean pulling herself out of the shadow of Summer and the fairytales she took comfort in and start figuring out who she is without it. And so far, she's been shedding small pieces of herself as she goes, her emblem being the newest part of her to shed.

That said, I really do hope that we get some sort of confrontation with Ruby and her teammates where she gets to just... break down in front of them so she can finally see how much they trust her. They havent had a real win since vol 3 (Vol 4 they were all split up, vol 5 nearly cost them their lives with luck being on their side with Ghira and Blake showing up and Cinder going against Salem's plan to go after the maiden powers, Vol 6 nearly ended with the destruction of Argus and they got lucky that Cordovin was able to defeat the grimm after Jinn helped Ruby stall it for a moment, and then we all saw what happened with vol 7 and 8 as they all played right into Salem's hands without even realizing it.) and I think that's starting to weigh on all of them, especially with Weiss's comment about leaving places in ashes. If anything, they need to be able to talk to each other and learn how to hold each other up after the failures they've suffered now that they're at a point where things are starting to get worse with Neo.

Especially now that they all know Jaune had fallen too. Because while they knew things had gotten worse, they now have that lingering question in the back of their mind about how much worse it had to have gotten for Jaune to have fallen too.

[jessimiko]

I thought I'd try my hand at a volume 9 bingo card

Neo redemption

Let Neo be assimilated into the found family, no one is safe

Alice in Wonderland references

This one is pretty obvious

Rosegarden fuel

BRO I JUST LOVE THEM SO MUCH I COULD CRY. Please just let me have this and I'll be happy

"The Girl who Fell Through the World"

I'm telling you there's no way that fairytale and the Ever After aren't connected, or at least eerily similar

Alice allusion character is the summer maiden

I have literally no reason to believe this other than just a hunch, but I'm calling it now

Team Reunion

If this happens in volume 9 at all, it'll be at like the very end. I have specifics of what I want out of that reunion but that's not relevant here asdfghjkl

Summer Rose

I think both Ruby and Yang are gonna have to deal with things relating to Summer. IT'S TIME TO FACE THE MOMMY ISSUES LADS LET'S GOOOOOO

bumbleby kiss/confirmed

Listen I hate this ship for personal reasons but I want them to just KISS ALREADY FUCKING COMMIT

Oscar "The Little Prince" allusion confirmed

I think y'all have heard about this theory and I am 100% here for it. And now is the time, I mean HELLO Oscar "The Little Prince" Pine is in the DESERT!!! Again this is assuming Oscar is in this volume at all :')

Magic

I'm convinced magic is just gonna be a normal thing here, like just completely throws everyone for a loop

Characters going feral

I'm a simple woman, I want to see characters going absolutely apeshit in a fight. (Would be a great opportunity to see Oscar, Ren, and Nora go feral fighting the Grimm after Winter tells them the others are dead) Listen I know it's wishful thinking but let me be a clown alright

Oscar gets his semblance

Once again this only works if Oscar is in this volume, which GOD I hope he is, and if so let my son unlock his semblance it's TIME

Grieving

Who's grieving? RWBY? Jaune? Oscar, Ren, Nora and the others? WHY NOT ALL OF THEM

Near death situations

Can we even have a volume of RWBY without near death situations at this point, I think not

Theodore frozen by fear (fight, flight, freeze)

Okay so I have this theory. Each headmaster so far (minus Ozpin obviously) has fallen victim to their own fear, which manifested in different ways. Lionheart was flight, Ironwood was fight, and following that pattern, Theodore will be freeze. Fight, flight and freeze.

Half Ever After, half Vacuo?

So hear me out, I can't imagine they would skip over whatever happens in Vacuo (unless the Ever After is outside the passage of time). And if this whole volume is only the Ever After, then I would guess they would use Volume 10 to show us everything that's happened in Vacuo. But I can't see them going that long without showing RWBY, our main protagonists. So, I figure at least SOME of this volume must be what's happening in Vacuo, even just a little bit. Maybe in the second half? Like, first half or so we see RWBY and Jaune in the Ever After, and then they escape. Then maybe we see what happens in Vacuo and and at the end of THAT is a reunion. I'm high on copium

Ship wars in the FNDM get worse

This is a given, I fully suspect someone is gonna tell me to kms because I ship Rosegarden

Emotional support Little

LITTLE IS FRIEND SHAPED AND WILL OFFER THE BEST SUPPORT

They escape at the end

I'm not going all in on this bc I could be wrong, but the pacing makes sense in my head

Ruby emotional breakdown

GIRL LET IT OUT OR IT'LL COME OUT ITSELF IN AN EXPLOSION OF TEARS AND SCREAMING

Big lore dump

Again, kind of a given

Self reflection

I think this is gonna be the perfect time for a lot of self reflection in the Ever After. About their feelings, their goals, their ideals, what drives them. And they'll come out of it with newly steeled resolve! Or it'll be like, a trauma reliving nightmare. Maybe both!

New outfits for returning characters

Listen if we see Sun this volume and he doesn't get a new outfit I'm starting a riot

Fighting inner demons

Self-explanatory, I feel like this is also gonna be THE volume for fighting your demons. And given how fuckin weird the Ever After is that could be figuratively and/or literally

Uhhh that's about it! I've never done one of these before but I figured why not, now might be a fun time to try it. Feel free to use this for your own watch through of the volume :)

[itsclydebitches]

Ok but what if the wyvern/dragon frozen on Beacon tower is Summer Rose? Unless the writers forget, V3 won't be the last time we see it and idk i think it'd be cool.

I love the idea in theory as a big reveal, though it would take a lot of retconning to pull off in canon. We know that wyverns are pretty rare grimm and this one was lying dormant in a mountain, so it begs the question of how Salem perfected her grimm experiments, found this particular grimm, combined it with Summer, and hid it in the heart of Ozpin's kingdom right under his nose, all in the 12-ish years we have between Summer's disappearance and the Battle of Beacon. It would also be kinda disappointing to move backwards: going from a giant, other grimm-summoning grimm that's actually our protagonist's mother to some no-name faunus who's essentially just a big dog. Bit of a downgrade imo.

This is (once again) why RWBY would have benefited from more planning. Imagine an extended version of the early volumes that included evidence of grimm experimentation. The cast, both the adults and the kids, get wind early on that their shadowy nemesis is doing something horrific with grimm. They're showing mutations at an unnatural rate. People are going missing. Maybe we meet another SEW faunus who, tragically, disappears as well. When the Battle of Beacon hits it's not just the hack on Ironwood's army that turns the tide, but the fact that the hordes of grimm are led by a wyvern that is acting far too intelligent. It doesn't come out of a mountain, but rather soars in at a horrifically tactical moment. When Ruby finally takes the wyvern down on the tower she has a brief moment of... something. Familiarity. Maybe even compassion for the creature, which sure as hell isn't normal, but no one is explaining what it could mean. Or if they can, they're not talking.

The trip across Remnent includes multiple encounters with mutated grimm, perhaps like the Nuckelavee and Salem's flying monkeys, this mystery dogging them all the way to Atlas. It's only there, after encountering the Hound (their former faunus friend) and talking to Salem in her lair, that they manage to figure out what's happening, including that Salem has been conducting these experimentation for generations, but it's only the SEW that she can control. Grimm like the Nuckelavee are wild, but the Hound follows orders. So did the wyvern, they realize... and there are only so many SEWs in the world.

With Salem now having cast a devastating blow against the heroes and the war moving back towards Beacon, Ruby has a choice to make: is she going to kill the creature that was once her mother and take that tool away from Salem at the very moment when they need every advantage they can get... or will she try to find some way to save her?

[bestworstcase]

I like your analysis on many things and I generally concurred on your points regarding Salem not seemingly doing anything but a thought did occur.

How does the idea Salem wasn't engaging in a secret war align with her killing Silver Eyed Warriors? No one else has anything to gain from their demises after all, so it wouldn't make sense for someone we've not met to be doing it.

the worldbuilding gremlins in my brain will not permit me to answer this without first noting that people are absolutely fantastic at rationalizing pointless violence and there’s a fine line between a savior and a scapegoat.

all it takes is one rumor that the warrior who turns grimm aside with a mere glance is really their master, sparing the faithful but unleashing the monsters on those who do not fall in line. or someone putting old myths about the maidens—witches whose power you can take by killing them—together with silver eyes. or one charismatic zealot blaming silver eyed warriors for the massacre of a village they couldn’t save. you know?

but, realistically, if silver-eyed folk are all descended from ozma, they’d have to be pretty rare to begin with—man doesn’t seem like he’s done a lot of settling down to have kids on the regular—and i don’t imagine there’s ever been enough of them for anyone but salem to be consistently picking them off.

although i will add that our data points here are: 1. maria, who was unambiguously targeted because of her eyes, 2. summer rose, who sought salem out on purpose, 3. hound guy, who salem fucked up good, and 4. maria’s father’s theory that the only reason silver eyes could possibly be so rare and obscure was if someone was hunting them down, which… isn’t logically sound actually, it requires the presupposition that silver eyes were common once and aren’t anymore, which probably isn’t the case bfjrhrk

and then like, look at the circumstances surrounding the three silver eyed people that we know FOR SURE that salem crossed paths with in some way: maria was a legend who styled herself as the grimm reaper. summer chose to go after salem, not the other way around. the hound… we have no idea where, when, or how salem found that guy, but we do know that he was the first, bc the hound was an experiment.

2 out of 3 are clearly atypical, and the 1 who isn’t was a SUPER high profile huntress, and combined with V9 establishing that summer’s “normal” was constant false alarms and ‘emergencies’ that turned out to be nothing? to me that raises the question of whether salem made a regular practice of culling silver-eyed warriors or if she went after maria bc maria’s fame brought her to salem’s attention?

BUT. THAT ASIDE,

i do think it’s pretty likely that salem regularly put bounties on the heads of SEWs of maria’s caliber, and may have exerted more effort than that (although if so, those efforts seem to have tapered off in the postwar era—it beggars belief that summer, ozpin’s protégée, would have slipped salem’s notice).

why? salem’s a grimm. grimm are very clearly shown to be… not mindless demonic monsters; they’re social creatures, they’re way smarter than huntsmen give ’em credit for, they have a drive to live just like any other living thing. and they’re all salem has. she’s been exiled from human and faunus civilization for thousands of years, but the grimm have never rejected her. it makes sense to me that she’d want to protect them?

and also, if she made the same connection maria did, and assumed silver eyes derived their power from the god of light… well. all the more reason to strike them down.

but, more to the point, salem taking maria out was entirely unrelated to whatever conflict she may or may not have been engaging in with ozpin at the time, because maria… didn’t know ozpin, wasn’t party to his conspiracy, had zero knowledge of salem’s existence. she was a lone, legendary hero doing her thing completely separate from what ozpin had going on. (which if anything supports the broader theory that salem was Focused On Other Things besides him; ‘other things’ need not necessarily be ‘good things’ hrgjshk)

there’s this pretty widespread fanon that ozma recruited silver-eyed warriors to his cause / that there is a power struggle of some kind over silver eyes akin to the one over the maidens, but i’m not… sure how well that holds up. certainly ozpin placed some importance on ruby’s eyes, but the impression i get is that ozma sees silver eyes as a proxy for his ‘smaller, more honest soul’—he’s not looking for the power so much as he’s looking for a particular purity of character. & obviously there’s silver-eyed folks out there who don’t answer to him or even know him.

so salem targeting silver eyes might sometimes overlap with taking out an agent of his, but equally it might just as often be motivated by—somewhat ironically—wanting to protect the lives of grimm.