#have a real heart to heart about it!! BJ character depth episode!!

[remyfire]

Okay, so, lot of thoughts about the BJ vs Trapper thing. First, you were absolutely correct, I am a Trapper girlie deep down, but BJ stole my heart within only a few minutes. Trap might just barely win as my favorite, but I think it's because watching those first three seasons made me fall fully in love with the show. So if he is my favorite, it's more sentimentality reasons rather than being a better character or partner to Hawkeye, you know?

While watching both Preventative Medicine and Period of Adjustment, I did realize that BJ and Hawkeye butt heads more often than Trap and Hawk. The show made that very clear to see. But that being said, I don't think it's a bad thing. Trap was definitely more of an enabler, and I think sometimes Hawkeye does need someone to bring him back down to earth. Trapper was also much more pessimistic than BJ seems to be, and I think it's good for Hawkeye to have someone to help pull him out of his spirals a little easier when he starts to get too deep. Again, not that Trap was unable to do that, but I think BJ has a slightly more positive view on things than Trapper did. But at the same time, having someone with that easy friendship where you can think the same thing without even speaking like Trapper and Hawkeye had can be so nice. They were often so in sync with each other, and I think having someone feel and think the same way also helped Hawkeye feel less alone over in Korea.

Regarding both of them knocking Hawkeye away, I think a bit of a disservice was done to BJ by making his episode and moment a bit heavier than Trapper's. When Trap whacked Hawkeye with that bag, it was played much more as a joke. When BJ blew up, it fell more on the drama side of the show. So regardless of my personal feelings, I do think both of these scenes would be seen very differently if they were both played in the same tone. As it stands, having BJ's lean away from the comedy made it feel much more charged than Trapper's, even if the overall situation is the same for both of them.

Personally, this doesn't take away any of my love for BJ. It gives him nuance and depth. We hear him talk about missing his family, but this is the first time we really *see* it have an effect on him. And while I do wish he would have directly apologized to Hawkeye, I think that was an extra layer of his emotional onion that he was just not able to peel back at that time. Even though he didn't say the words, I think he showed his remorse by opening up to Hawkeye, going to him for comfort, helping him rebuild the still. I still think Hawkeye deserves a real apology for being hurt like that, but I think he also knows that BJ feels bad and didn't truly mean to hurt him. That being said, I think he also deserves an apology from Trapper, but Hawk and Trap's relationship was always a bit less explicitly emotional than BJ and Hawkeye's has been.

Also, this may all be sentimentality speaking. There are two scenes I remember the exact wording of from when I watched this show as a kid so many years ago, and one of them is "You know what I did today? I hit the best friend I ever had." And even the first time I saw that, even without knowing their full backstory, that line spoke to me so much that I've remembered it all these years. I remembered the pain in BJ's voice when he said it, the tears in his eyes, the way he looked at Hawkeye when he spoke. To me, it showed the depth of their friendship, even without the several seasons of backstory. It told me that BJ cared, and he felt remorse, and also had a kind of love for Hawkeye that I only hoped people could have for me. Like I said, it may be sentimentality speaking, but I think that was a hugely powerful scene.

All this to say: I don't think it affects my love or BJ or him and Hawkeye as a ship. It's definitely a tough episode to watch, and I think it's also a hurdle they might have to work a little to get past, but personally it made no difference for me in my enjoyment of his character. All it did for me was add more depth to BJ, show me his experiences of the horrors of war, and make him more of an interesting character. And thank you for posing such a question! It was definitely in line with the hints of a thought I had on my own after watching this episode, and it was very fun to delve deeper in and really analyze what I thought and why I thought that. And of course I could probably go on further, because I clearly love talking about these boys. But thank you for the question and thank you for sharing your thoughts too!

Hi anon, you said all of this so articulately that I am honestly struggling to come up with an in-depth response because I am just sitting here chin-handsing and thinking about all three of our boys with very, very large emotions. You and I really do seem to be like-minded regarding quite a bit about how we absorbed these experiences and let them coalesce into the wider narrative and relationships therein.

So instead I'm just going to think about how after the war, what this means is that all three of them are going to [I am hooked and removed from the stage]

[daringdarlingdt]

curious to know your thoughts about GFA if you feel like sharing some more

ok ok ok I always feel like sharing more so i will blabber about it for a while but I will preface this by saying that it was. a lot. and I don't think I've had time to really internalize it and distill my thoughts and feelings into something cohesive and intelligent yet so this will be messy. and also very very long. you've been warned. but also thanks for asking lol :)

firstly, i found the relationship between Sidney and Hawkeye while he was institutionalized really interesting. Everything about those scenes seemed really well done to me. I mean I've never repressed a traumatic memory and then had a breakdown about it to my dear friend/therapist after spending a while (a few weeks? a month? multiple months?*) trying to get out of one intolerable environment and back to an equally, but more familiar and comfortable intolerable environment,,, so I can't say authoritatively what that should look like, but I thin Alan Alda did a really fantastic job of portraying it and the dialogue in those scenes was convincing to me. Like the sort of verbal tic of glossing over the actually traumatic part of the story and avoiding dealing with those feelings where hawkeye goes "and so and so and so..." all made that process of forcing him to confront it feel pretty real to me. Also the way Hawkeye antagonizes Sidney even though in the past he's been pretty open and cooperative when he thinks there's something wrong with him (Hawk's Nightmare, Bless You Hawkeye), and gets defensive, lashing out at Sidney, and insisting he's fine, even preferring to go back to the 4077th than stay there and actually work through the problem. I thought that made it more convincing that there *was* something wrong with him because taking his frustrations out on wise, mild-mannered, friendly Sidney would have been out-of-character otherwise, but because it was clear he was avoiding something else and on edge it worked really well to actually get that point across. I feel like I could talk about all of the details of these scenes forever so I'm gonna move on but there were all sorts of little moments that really stuck with me as saying a lot about both characters and the tension between them and whatever it is that's making hawkeye act this way, up until the tension breaks and hawkeye remembers and there's a release and the process of getting better can actually start to happen.

*it wasn't particularly clear to me how long hawkeye was there, both before the episode starts and throughout the episode, although the latter couldn't have been too long because BJ only sticks around for a few days after he gets his travel orders right? but then in the time between getting the letter and coming back, BJ visits Hawkeye which leads to the breakthrough and then it's (presumably) at least a few days after that that Hawkey goes back to the 4077th and BJ has just left. idk the timeline of the episode seemed a bit jumpy to me. It's also not clear how long they're at the bug-out location before they return to the 4077th at the end. not that that's really important--timelines have also always been inconsequential on this show so why start questioning it now?

I loved the scene where they all talk to him on the phone and are so uncomfortable and walking on eggshells and don't know how to respond when he tells each of them, relatively crudely, how desperately he doesn't want to be there while also revealing the depths of his denial. Margaret calls him 'Hawkeye' which she literally never does and it just sounds so wrong coming out of her mouth because she's obviously trying way too hard to be casual. they just so clearly don't know how to handle it because it only makes it clearer that he does have to be there and while it breaks my heart and I, from a more watsonian perspective, wish BJ or Margaret or someone could've really shined in that moment and said something to actually make Hawkeye feel better or at least distract him and get some banter going, that awkwardness just adds to the overall tension surrounding Hawkeye's stay in the psychiatric war which makes sense.

moving on, the BJ-and-Hawkeye energy episode in this episode was so weird to me. I don't know how to explain it. I think know I'm not the only one absolutely insane about everything that goes on between them in this episode but it felt especially shocking to me, I think, because I finished the rest of season 11 about a week before watching GFA (i had a bunch of school work and exams to worry about and wanted to wait till I could afford to sit down and watch the whole thing and sit with it for a while) but in the meantime I've been rewatching season 1-3 episodes for shits and giggles. So the off-kilterness of BJ and Hawk in this episode felt especially stark against Hawk and Trap's easly synchronicity. I generally am not a huge BJ fan so his like I-have-a-kid superiority moments didn't sit well with me, as usual and there were a bunch of them but that's fine; I liked how BJ talking about little Erin, as he literally *always* does set Hawkeye off and how clearly afraid of/for Hawkeye BJ was in the scene where he visits him. I liked that he does pick up a pen and paper to write a note to Hawkeye but doesn't have the time to think of what to say. I feel like that was a redeeming moment for Trapper almost-- it's also parallel to Hawk not knowing what to leave for BJ in Where There's a Will There's a War (if I loved you less I could talk about it more vibes)--he even tells Margaret that there's too much to say. but I also like Hawkeye's annoyance at it when he comes back and mentioning Trapper too and that little moment of insecurity saying that maybe there's something wrong with him. even though he's overall a very self-assured and confident person, I like the moments we get to see that he has a very human response to specific criticisms or rejections from the people that he's closest to; Hawkeye loves deeply and wholly and I feel like this is him being worried that their friendship meant more to him than to BJ, and the same for Trapper. Plus it's indicative of him not being back to 100% post-breakdown and there. actually being something wrong with him.

I was a fan of how sort of distant Hawkeye felt to everyone when he got back as well. I'm a bit foggier on this train of thought so I'm not entirely sure if this was intentional or not but there weren't a lot of scenes with Hawkeye and the rest of the characters after he returns and they don't really ever talk about the fact that he was literally in a psychiatric hospital and it also felt kind of appropriate to me. I think, again, it would have been nice to have a heart-warming open conversation about feelings and such after this and Hawkeye generally is pretty big on sharing his feelings and telling his stories and I think he would have if asked, but the fact that no one really wanted to linger on the issue makes sense both for the time (~stigma~) and for the characters who don't want to be reminded that they could theoretically have had the same reaction, and who just want things to go back to normal. They do express concern for him in small ways but mostly they just pretend like nothing happened. I think Margaret was the least like this, she was worried before Hawkeye operated for the first time and I really loved the small scene between them after bandaging a kid up when she says they can take a break and asks how he's doing. She's really making an effort to be there for him check up on him and since I'm a sucker for a Margaret/Hawkeye bestie moment I really appreciated that. But we do sort of get to see that hawkeye gets gradually better, from his extreme shakiness first time back in the operating room to operating on the young girl despite being a bit freaked... but also in terms of slowly re-integrating himself into the social flow of the camp. He seems pretty isolated when he first gets back, not really present in a lot of group scenes, leaving the party, and then by the party at the end he seems pretty much at home again. I do like, though, how he never really returns to the energy he had before. he just seems a bit muted and while that breaks my heart, it's another example of how both he and the narrative can't just bounce back after seeing the extent of the war's toll on Hawkeye and pushing him basically to his breaking point.

some non-Hawkeye-centric drabble:

I really wish some time had been put into developing Klinger and Soon-Lee's relationship, as well as Soon-Lee as a character on her own, before GFA. I think we do get a good sense of what kind of person Soon-Lee is and I like her a lot and I think GFA handles that storyline relatively well considering the minimal set-up it has but it would've been nice to see Soon-Lee more involved in the camp before the episode and know what she's like beyond her desperate need to find her family, as well as how she's interact with other characters besides Klinger--like Margaret is bridesmaid at the wedding and they have a very sweet goodbye moment but we don't see them talk to each other once before that. that could have been an interesting friendship if they'd had the time. I also have mixed feelings about Klinger staying in Korea as an ending for his character overall. Like it's very sweet and is a meaningful choice within the Soon-Lee plot because he's sacrificing returning to the home he adores so much for her which shows how much he loves her but selfishly i feel cheated out of the satisfaction of Klinger finally getting to go back to Toledo, after 9 seasons (I don't think they mention he's from there before Adam's Rib in season 3) of him waxing poetic about it .

I liked Charles' arc in the episode too. He had the two things going on with the Chinese POW musicians and tiff with Margaret. I don't have much to say about it except that it all felt very in-character for him and sort of encapsulated the gradual breaking down of his walls that'd happened over the past 5 seasons within those two hours just to really remind you of how far he'd come. I don't have super strong feelings about Charles as a character but David Ogden Stiers' performance was phenomenal, as always.

I kind of wish more had happened with Father Mulcahy i think. All of the characters were so isolated, actually, not just Hawkeye. Aside from Margaret, Charles barely talks to anyone, Klinger and Soon-Lee are their own thing and Mulcahy relies on BJ and God alone in regards to his struggle as he comes to terms with being deaf. I feel like he doesn't really have much catharsis.

I really liked that Margaret decided to work in a hospital as a nurse instead of stay in the army after the war. I love that she decided to make a choice based on what she felt was most important instead of just to get approval from her father; and also her priorities have changed. She always took nursing very seriously and was concerned with being competent as well as compassionate but early seasons Margaret would not have made that choice regardless of her father as a factor. It seems self-evident that a main character in a supposedly anti-military show wouldn't want to be promoted in the military but by season 11.. who knows it could have gone another way. but that wouldn't have made sense for Margaret's character at all so I'm glad that they actually showed how much she grew and let her have a happy ending with herself at the center of it instead of the army, or her father, or a love interest.

The actual goodbye sequence at the end felt a little bit stale to me actually. Maybe because it was just so formulaic and practical like with them each taking off individually on different modes of transportation after saying an individual goodbye to each person. It felt a little bit hokey in that way, although i guess it did make sure that each character duo got a proper parting moment. Still sweet though and there were things I liked about each character's departure. the Hawkeye/Margaret kiss moment i have mixed feelings about. I really hated BJ and Hawk saluting Potter. and with all its faults I did like the Goodbye sign from BJ to Hawkeye.

I liked that it was actually kind of bittersweet because of BJ promising Hawk that they would see each other and that the note was "just in case" except Hawkeye doesn't hear any of that, he just sees the note. He doesn't hear the promise. but he got the goodbye he wanted. but maybe he thinks it's just BJ admitting to what he already thought which would be sad. just. so many feelings. so I guess it kind of works for me idk. I will also say that despite being a staunch piercintyre defender and generally disagreeing with most beejhawk theories, the final goodbye between them did more to convince me of repressed BJ than the other 8 seasons combined. Idk what it was about Mike Farell's performance in those few moments but i Got It for a minute before they hugged and Hawkeye ran off.

ok I think that's all I have to say for now. sorry for how long this ended up being but I did warn you lol. I'd love to hear any thoughts you, or anyone on mashblr reading this, have on my thoughts or just about GFA in general although I absolutely do not expect anyone to respond to everything I talked about here because it was kind of everything about the episode.

[thealogie]

Charles is basically the Jerk With a Heart of Gold trope, so if that's not your thing you won't ever like or appreciate him, but you've still got a ways to go with his development so he may grow on you! I'd love to hear more about your thoughts on Frank having more potential than Charles though, because I think you are the only person I've ever seen argue that point (but I understand if you don't want to open that can of worms and just focus on Hawkeye and BJ :-) ).

Frank was first of all just so incredibly gay and closeted. I fully recognize I’d never give a person like that a chance in real life but he was soooo cartoonishly conservative and into the military that it was almost not offensive or real, and felt like he could have moments of realization that he’s wrong about specific stuff (and therefore provide moments of depth or a Lesson for That Episode) without ever becoming a truly morally Good character. Kind of like Jack Donaghy on 30 rock I guess? I also just find “bad surgeon with strict dad and delusions of military grandeur” more compelling than “excellent surgeon from rich family, doesn’t want to be here”

I also find the enmity between Charles and the Duo to be really forced. I think it makes sense they start off on a bad foot when Charles is like “I’m excellent and better than you in every way” but once they enter the room and Charles has that moment of humility that he doesn’t known THIS kind of surgery...it would make way more sense if they switch to actually being friends, but he’s just their fussy friend who Has Taste. They keep switching back and forth between that, and Charles actively being a jerk/fighting with them.