#he wasn't really immortal

[jollmaster]

Hortator's shield-companion was raised in Holamayan temple

[shannonsketches]

Why is the anime so weird, it's not even the same series dude?? It's like,

Anime:

GOKU: I have a great idea to bring peace to the universe, and my leadership and compassion alone will unite us all. I have No Flaws and am A True Relatable Everyman :)

VEGETA: NO! I AM THE BEST AND I WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS UNTIL I AM RECOGNIZED AS SUCH!!!!

Manga:

GOKU: Vegeta what's cornmeal made of? I know it's what the corn eats, but what's it made of? VEGETA: Hey Kakarot let's play the quiet game until one of us dies.

[gingermintpepper]

As usual I read your tags always and so you said Apollo did not ask for resurrection of Asclepius and Hyacinthus so i just wanted to share this. About Asclepius death I read it on theoi.com, that earlier authors don't make him resurrect as a god but that's a later development mentioned only by Roman authors like Cicero, Hyginus and Ovid. But still Apollo has a role in Ovid's version

Ovid, Fasti 6. 735 ff (trans.Boyle) (Roman poetry C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) : Clymenus [Haides] and Clotho resent the threads of life respun and death's royal rights diminished. Jove [Zeus] feared the precedent and aimed his thunderbolt at the man who employed excessive art. Phoebus [Apollon], you whined. He is a god; smile at your father, who, for your sake, undoes his prohibitions [i.e. when he obtains immortality for Asklepios].

So here it is actually because of Apollo the decision was taken to resurrect him as god. And with Hyacinthus, I don't think I've read about Artemis playing the primary role. I know in Sparta there was a picture of Artemis, Athena and Aphrodite carrying Hyacinthus and his sister to heaven.

This is not on theoi.com but I saw on Tumblr it's from Dionysiaca by Nonnus

Second, my lord Oiagros wove a winding lay, as the father of Orpheus who has the Muse his boon companion. Only a couple of verses he sang, a ditty of Phoibos, clearspoken in few words after some Amyclaian style: Apollo brought to life again his longhaired Hyacinthos: Staphylos will be made to live for aye by Dionysos.

So since he is singing inspired by amyclean stories it probably means in that place it was believed Apollo was the one to bring back his lover to life.

Apollo as god of order was very important so i think it shows how special these people (and admetus too) were to him that he decided to go against the order for them 🥺

ANON!! Shakes you like a bottle of ramune!! BELOVED ANON!!!!! I'm littering your face with kisses, I'm anointing you with olive oil and honey - you absolutely made my night with this because, not only did I get the pure serotonin shot of having someone interact with my tags (yippee, wahoo!!) I also got to have that wonderful feeling of "oh wow, have I misunderstood something that was integral to my understanding of this myth/figure this whole time or is this a case of interpretational differences?" which is imo vital for my aims and interests as someone who enjoys mythological content and literature.

I'll preface my response with this: Hyacinthus is by far the hardest of these to get accounts for because his revival itself, as you very astutely point out, is generally accounted for in painting/ritual format which muddies the waters on who interceded for what. I wasn't actually familiar with that passage from the Argonautica - and certainly didn't remember it so thank you very much for bringing it to my attention!

That said, what I've come to understand, both about Hyacinthus and about Asclepius is that in the accounts of their deaths, Apollo's position is startlingly clear.

For Hyacinthus, it is established time and again that Apollo would have sacrificed everything for him - his status, his power, his very own immortality and divinity. Ovid writes that Apollo would have installed him as a god if only he had the time:

(Ovid. Metamorphoses. Book X. trans. Johnston)

Many other writers too speak of how Apollo abandoned his lyre and his seat at Delphi to spend his days with Hyacinthus, but they also all agree that when it came to his death - he was powerless. Ovid gives that graphic account of Apollo's desperation as he tries all his healing arts to save him to no avail:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book X. Apollo me boy, methinks him dead. trans Johnston)

Bion, in one of his fragments, writes that Apollo was "dumb" upon seeing Hyacinthus' agony:

(Bion, The Bucolic Poets. Fragment XI. trans Edmonds)

Even Nonnus in the Dionysiaca speaks constantly of Apollo's helplessness in the face of Hyacinthus' fate where he writes that the god still shivers if a westward wind blows upon an iris:

and when Zephyros breathed through the flowery garden, Apollo turned a quick eye upon his young darling, his yearning never satisfied; if he saw the plant beaten by the breezes, he remembered the quoit, and trembled for fear the wind, so jealous once about the boy, might hate him even in a leaf...

(Nonnus, Dionysiaca, Book 3. trans Rouse)

And the point here is just that - Apollo, at least as far as I've read, cannot avert someone's death. He simply can't. Once they're already dead - once Fate has cut their string - all Apollo's power is gone and he can do nothing no matter how much he wants to. And this is, as far as I know, supported with the accounts of Asclepius as well!

Since you specifically brought up Ovid's account, I'll also stick only to Ovid's account but in Metamorphoses when we get Ovid's version of Coronis' demise, he writes that Apollo intensely and immediately regrets slaughtering Coronis. He regrets it so intensely that he, like he does with Hyacinthus, does his best to resuscitate her:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo's regret)

And like Hyacinthus, when it becomes clear that what has happened cannot be undone, Apollo wails:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo wept.)

Unlike his mother, Asclepius in her womb had not yet died and so, with the last of Apollo's strength, he does manage, at least, to save him.

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo puts the 'tearing out' in Asclepius.)

But it goes further than even that because Ocyrhoe, Chiron's daughter, a prophetess who unduly gained the ability to directly proclaim the secrets of the Fates, upon seeing the baby Asclepius, immediately prophesies his glory, his inevitable death and then his fated ascension:

(Ovid. Metamorphoses, Book Two. Ocyrhoe's prophecy. trans Johnston)

Before she too succumbs to her hubris and is transformed by the Fates into a horse so she can no longer speak secrets that aren't hers to share.

These things ultimately are important because it establishes two very important things: 1) Apollo can't do anything in the face of the ultimate Fate of mortals, which is, of course, death and 2) even when Apollo is Actively Devastated, regretful, yearning, mournful, guilty or some unholy combination of all of the above, when someone is dead, he accepts that they are gone. Even if he is devastated by it, even if he'll cry all the rest of his days about it - if they're dead? Apollo lets them go. In Fasti, when Zeus brings Asclepius back, he does not say Apollo asked him to - Zeus, or well, in this case Jove, brings Asclepius back because he wants Apollo to stop being mad at him.

(Ovid, Fasti VI. Apollo please come home your father misses you. trans. A.S Kline)

Even Boyle's translation which you used above in your findings hints that Zeus made Asclepius a god because he wanted Apollo to stop grieving. (i.e 'smile at your father', 'for your sake [he] undoes his prohibitions')

And like, Apollo was deeply upset by Asclepius' death - apart from killing the Cyclops in anger, in book 4 of the Argonautica, Apollonius writes that the Celts believe the stream of Eridanus to be the tears Apollo shed over the death of Asclepius when he left for Hyperborea after being chastised by Zeus for killing his Cyclops:

But the Celts have attached this story to them, that these are the tears of Leto's son, Apollo, that are borne along by the eddies, the countless tears that he shed aforetime when he came to the sacred race of the Hyperboreans and left shining heaven at the chiding of his father, being in wrath concerning his son whom divine Coronis bare in bright Lacereia at the mouth of Amyrus.

It all paints a very clear picture to me. Apollo did not ask for either of them to be brought back. Though bringing them back certainly pleased and delighted him, they are actions of other gods who are moved by Apollo's grief and mourning and seek to mollify him. Him not asking doesn't mean he didn't want them back which I think is a very important distinction by the by, but it simply means that Apollo knows the natural order of things and, even if it hurts, he isn't going to press his luck about it.

Which, of course, brings us to Admetus. And I'm really not going to overcomplicate this, Admetus is different because, very vitally, Admetus is not dead. Apollo can't do a thing once Fate has been carried out and Death has claimed a mortal but you know what he absolutely can do? Bargain like hell with the Fates before that point of inevitability. And that's what he does, ultimately for Admetus and Alcestis. He sought to prolong Admetus' life, not revive him from death or absolve him from death altogether and even after getting the Fates drunk, he's still only able to organise a sacrifice - a life for a life - something completely contingent on whether some other mortal would be willing to die in Admetus' place and not at all controllable by Apollo's own power.

All of these things, I think come back to that point you made - that Apollo's place as a god of order is very important and therefore these people are very special to him if it means he's willing to go against that order but, I also wish to challenge that opinion if you'd let me. Apollo's place as a god of order is very important and therefore, I would argue, that it is even more important that it is shown that he does not break the divine order, especially for the people that mean the most to him. The original context of my comments which started this conversation were on this lovely, lovely post by @hyacinthusmemorial which contemplated upon Asclepius from the perspective of an Emergency Medical personnel and included, in their tags, the very poignant lines "there's something about Apollo letting go when Asclepius couldn't that eats my heart away" and "you do what you can, you do your best, but you don't ever reach too far" and I think that's perfectly embodied with the Apollo-Asclepius dichotomy. Apollo grieves. He wails, he cries, he does his best each and every time to save that which is precious to him but he does not curse their nature, he does not resent that they are human and ultimately, he accepts that that which is mortal must inevitably die. There is nothing that so saliently proves that those who uphold rules are also their most staunch followers - if Apollo wants to delight in his place as Fate's mouthpiece, he cannot undo Fate. And, if even the god of healing and order himself cannot undo death, what right does Asclepius, mortal as he is, talented as he is, have to disrespect it?

The beauty of these stories isn't that Apollo loved them enough to bring them back. The beauty is that Apollo loved them enough to let them go.

[kurobachisagi]

crazy kahaku and fushi realization

Part of Kahaku’s character arc was him going from wanting to protect Fushi as his role in the Guardians to wanting actually be there for them, and wanting to protect their humanity. All he really wanted by the end of the Renryrr/Renril arc was to be someone Fushi could trust, someone to ease their mind and take some of the burden off their shoulders.

Despite this being all he wanted to do for Fushi, and based on the first pic, the only thing he believed he COULD do for them, he left Fushi behind and died believing that he was never able to achieve that.

But, when you look at all the times Fushi mentions Kahaku in the modern arc, all their memories of him are positive. To Fushi, Kahaku was a good friend, a good person, and a calming presence, really they seem to see Kahaku in a much better light than he should be seen in, but that’s what they see him as. Exactly what he wished he could be for Fushi.

[using this image bc of @bestbonnist​‘s post just trust me(them)]

Kahaku never believed it himself, and he’ll never be able to, but he did what he sought out do do. Based on Fushi’s memories of him, he was exactly the person he wanted to be but thought he never managed to become.

[obeymeow]

nightbringer lesson 14 FUCKED ME UP in several ways but primarily I've spent the last 48 hours making myself sad over the solomon backstory we got. specifically I have, for no reason, latched onto that one chapter in the Kids event where baby solomon cried because he felt so guilty over being responsible for that spell. and that just feels a touch more depressing in context

[joinmeinjoy]

There's not really going to be a point for most of this but...having mild thoughts about Hob Gadlings metal bat under the bar of the New Inn.

He doesn't need a traditional "weapon", no fight will ever spell death for Hob. He doesn't need something that kills - it will never be 'me or them' bc Hob will always win out in that, always get back up. So he doesn't need something that kills. Just something to stop someone in their tracks. Hob metaphorically brings a gun to every knife fight bc not only does he have decades of soldiering and banditry behind him, but he's also just straight up immortal. No fight with other humans is going to be fair, he knows this, and it's a lot less acceptable to kill people these days anyway.

So a bat. Under the bar. Mainly because pulling it out is enough to scare most people these days, but also because Hob doesn't need to worry about getting shot before he can break some bones and knock out some teeth. Bullets won't stop him, he doesn't need to fight for his life. And if there's other people in the bar, well. The attackers are usually more inclined to focus on the guy rounding in on them with a weapon than the couple cowering behind their seats.

So there's a bat- one that's sat there for decades, with a grip that's not the original but is worn through like it might be, and a few loving dents here and there from the dense heads of bigots and people who robbed the wrong pub. The staff knows its there. It's free use. It's been pulled from its spot by bartenders and servers alike over the years, wielded as the threat it is, but Hobs been the only one to ever actually swing it. Better his conscience than theirs, he supposes.

Robert Gadlings metal bat under the New Inn bar...

[espadagalaxia]

rest

[mariocki]

Edward Woodward guest stars as Jack Liskard, Prime Minister of an unspecified African country and the target of multiple assassination attempts, in The Saint: The Persistent Patriots (5.15, ITC, 1967)

[brutal-nemesis]

Aw man I never thought there was a time that Castys didn't know he was immortal (I can't imagine him mid 30s 😳) what did he think when he came back for the first time? How did he die?

yeah trust me i can't either but it sure is canon

Okay so the first time he died was actually back when he was still 19, and that was when he became immortal, so that's why he always "respawns" like that. He thought it was weird that he was alive with no wounds now cuz he knows he died, but he didn't conclude that that meant he was now immortal, just that he got one more chance.

He was on a deserted island, as he was for the past 4 years of his life, the only years he could remember. Eventually some pirates found the island and captured him, and he eventually joined the crew and lived as a pirate up until he died in battle one day.

And then came back much younger and completely fine!

[laireshi]

okay but more thoughts about alaris and caeden’s last moment because -- even after everything, a part of alaris still didn’t expect caeden to go through with it. he didn’t think caeden was really capable of killing him.

so, what it tells me is that... if he had to kill caeden, or, from his pov, tal -- he wouldn’t have been able to do it. which makes sense, of course, seeing how from his perspective, he just wanted them all to live. caeden chose ✨the greater good✨ over his friends, over himself, to save the world. alaris’ definition of the greater good included all of them being alive. he didn’t have to choose between his friend and his belief, because his belief didn’t require him to kill that friend.

of course the narrative is very clear on which one of them was right, but that’s just why this tragedy is so compelling.

[constellationcrowned]

🐉 (for kariom)

Send ‘ 🐉 ’ for my muse to tell a myth / legend / folktale that they know

"A story....?" Kariom blinks, his words coming out around the bite of bread he'd just taken. This wasn't an uncommon conversation for either of them---and they were something that the half-blood enjoyed---and yet..... "......."

He takes another bite of his roll if only to buy himself more time. Wouldn't it be nicer to share a lighthearted story? Something fanciful and stupid like one of Bo's stories? Something LESS IMMEDIATE AND TRUE...? Alas, there was only one tale he could tell; the same one that was looming larger with every step the star-reader took, the same one that hadn't remained a mere story for long.

"When I was little....well, younger---" Kariom makes a vague gesture with one hand to indicate a rough height, "---Flynn TOLD ME A STORY ABOUT AN EYELESS BEAST---it was something that even immortals were wary of---and how it would take the eyes of its victims, like little kiddos who wandered around at night without supervision and cast their gaze towards things they shouldn't. Initially I thought he was just trying to ward me off from going out at night on my own, stars or not, because I had.....have....the habit of doing that but he was so insistent about it and then...." And then Tigla-Dera---his last Tigla-Dera----and then there was Milosh, Milosh with his rhyme and Flynn. Flynn....

Without realizing it Kariom's now free hands had shifted as he spoke; his right hand moving to clutch at the star theater eternally hung around his neck and then, upon mentioning Flynn and the Tigle-Dera his hand opens and hovers near the scar marring his chest. Just for a moment or two, enough but not enough, never enough, and then both hands ball themselves into fists and press against the tops of his thighs.

".....The stinking thing should've STAYED AS NOTHING BUT A MERE STORY." He didn't even know how the Crown was supposed to stop something that could harm the tsourai in such a way----let alone if it was currently possessing someone. Would the Crown hurt Flynn? Would it trap the two of them together? Or.... "...I have to do something about it, and soon. It doesn't deserve to be anything more than a dumb tale for Flynn to spin for an over-imaginative boy." He needed to do something before it took Flynn away from him....or anyone else for that matter.

[softersinned-arc]

@koschyei said: ❛ You know, this is an interesting and efficient method of murder. I need to write this down. ❜

The smile on her lips doesn't meet her eyes, and she tries to ignore the churning in her gut; she knows better by now than to trust anyone, let alone another politician, but she wants to, and badly. She can feel it in him, some sort of power that is at once old and incomprehensible to her, and there is a part of her that wants to sit at his feet and learn, and another part of her, a greater, a louder part of her, that wishes there were some way to sink her fingers into his chest and rip it out of him to keep for herself.

She has been powerless before and has learned to survive, even to thrive, in spite of it, but it did nothing to dull her hunger. She imagines power sometimes like an organ and she imagines what it would feel like to tear the power from another person and swallow it hole, blood staining her teeth, magic burning her tongue. She is a creature of want above all else. She always has been.

"I'm afraid I'm little help to you when it comes to the Anchor's power." Not technically a lie, but certainly not the truth. Astoria's left hand pulses a gentle, glowing green, and she thinks, not for the first time, that her blood sounds different now that it's been infected by the Fade.

But it was not the Anchor's power, this time; it was her own, and a power she understands plenty well. One need not tamper with the blood as a whole when one can tamper with the things that make it, and there is plenty of water in blood. To manipulate. To move. To boil. Not technically blood magic, but she knows enough by now of the chantry to trust that not technically blood magic is hardly a solid defense. She takes in a deep breath and immediately regrets it as the euphoria of battle fades and she feels the sudden and sharp pain in her chest that means her ribs have broken again.

The dead men at her feet steams like cooked meat, their skin reddened and bursting from the heat that had poured out of her and into them. Around them, the snow has melted enough to reveal the hard, barren ground beneath it. Had she known Koschei was near, she would have been more cautious, but the Venatori had caught her by surprise. Astoria tucks her hands into her sleeves and shrugs apologetically.

"If I knew better how it worked, I would use it better. Unfortunately, much of Solas' research into rifts is beyond me. I never received a formal training in magic and I'm afraid the theory seems rather muddy compared to what I learned at the augur's knee." She raises her eyebrows, retracts her left hand and holds it out to him, palm up, as if in invitation. (In challenge.) "Though if there's knowledge in Buyan that has yet to cross the Wilds, that could guide me, surely you would know it...?"

[alhavaradawnstar]

building on those tags I have SO much figured out about vyrthur & gelebor that is. Not canon

[eclipsecrowned]

writing about my roman oc severina's husband is always an exercise in 'how close can i veer to this being a pigeonholing of a horror media character i hate without it becoming m*rius without the serial numbers filed off--'

[gammarads]

finished war for cybertron: siege last night and I'm not totally sure how I feel?? it wasn't totally bad but it was just very Eh. very bare bones at times and Too Fucking Slow. I swear I'm gonna have to speed up the other two shows if it continues on like this

[officialinvisibleanon]

Inviz, question. . .

Do you have a God complex? Because you never take responsibility for your own actions, do godly things, and don't have villainous/others that equal your power, skill, IQ, etc. So, I'm just wondering.

Because you don't seem to weakness or limitations to what you can do like a Mary Sue.

"...No? Having a god complex is characterized by the person believing that they're unquestionably correct in their opinions and actions. They also usually have no regard for the demands of society and expect special privileges for just... Existing."

"Though, interestingly, the God Complex is not a clinical term recognized by the DSM and the "real" name for a God Complex, or moreso the behaviors associated with it, is called Narcissistic Personality Disorder."

"As for whether I have it, I do not. I recognize my flaws, like my incomplete knowledge of magic forces, my incomplete knowledge of non-human biology, and my difficulty expressing emotions properly."

"...I also recognize when I mess up or do something wrong, and have to face the consequences. Like fighting on the wrong side of a war, or... Attacking a ghost dog that I thought was evil when it was I who was falling off the deep end, or..."

"...Or petty murder."

"The examples I just gave of me doing bad things are luckily things that haven't caught up with me yet, but... I don't... That doesn't make me feel alright about having done those things."