#how i started shipping byler

[nerdy-frog98]

Adding to this tag bc I think it would be fun seeing other stories :)

basically, this scene. I wish I was one of you smart folks that caught on to the tension earlier, but in my first watch of season 4, I was bewILDERED at how Mike acted to Will at the airport. His half hug, the interest in the painting and then moving on very quickly - it gave me boy kisser vibes. I was immediately interested in every single scene they had together for the rest of the season (and the fight that M!leven had solidified it).

To this day, I cannot think of a heterosexual explanation for that scene.

[itsjustbyler]

Lets make "How i started shipping Byler" a new tag/gate please 😭

[aemiron-main]

ive been rewatching s4 scenes and holy fuck did they ever make mike’s crush on eddie obvious like oh my god it’s SO OBVIOUS IN EVERY SINGLE SCENE  plus ‘fever’ by the cramps playing in the background?? at first i thought it was just the instrumental of it but NOPE THE LYRICS ARE QUIET BUT THEYRE THERE like they put in a lyric about “kiss me” right in this scene where dustin looks disturbed and mike doesn’t, AND they quieted out other lyrics of ‘fever’ so we KNOW that they chose specific ones to actually be loud enough to hear. 

mike i know what you are 

[antisociallilbrat]

Reddie Vs Byler

Okay I am once again here with a take that may not be that popular but I think it's worth a conversation. If you have a different opinion please feel free to comment on this post or inbox me.

So I've said this before but I'll say it again: I have been in the It fandom since the beginning of it, Sept 2017, and I crossed into the St fandom later that year but didn't start actively posting about it until about a year ago.

Point is I've seen some shit.

I've compared these two fandoms before and their behaviors but I want to specifically talk about Reddie and Byler, two ships that are the biggest in their respective fandoms. (I know Byler's spot for the number one ship may be rivaled by ships like St Steddie but they're still up there in popularity.)

Reddie in the It fandom has been big since the beginning, and only grew bigger (maybe 'exploded' is a better term) after the 2019 movie. You can see why it's popular, it features two of the most loved characters in the fandom, the dynamics are fun, and it inspires great fanart/fics. Look, I've never been the biggest Reddie shipper but I can recognize this as fact.

Let's talk about the shippers real quick. There are a lot of Reddie shippers that are great but the ship is not without people that cause discourse- especially in the early days of the It fandom. I think any big ship has these people, it comes with the territory of being a 'big' ship.

Back in the early days of the It fandom, when the fandom was more alive, there were Reddie shippers who didn't like Kaspbrough or Stozier and would make that known. Those ships are the two that would rival Reddie the most so it makes sense those ships weren't liked by some of them. Also Kaspbrough which features Bill and again, some, Reddie shippers did not like Bill but that's another conversation.

But here's the thing: even if Reddie had a few of those...problematic shippers, the overall ship space of it was relatively safe. There has never been shipping discourse in the It fandom like how it is in the St fandom. Here's a post I made on why that probably is a while back, but to some it up; it's just widely accepted that all the Losers love each other and every ship is valid and because of that there's never been a lot 'anti certain ship' rhetoric.

Now onto Byler. There is so much anti ship rhetoric and a lot shipping discourse but to say it's all the Byler shipper's fault would be frankly ridiculous. Shipping discourse and the Stranger Things fandom walk hand in hand at the this point, despite how much I wish that wasn't the case.

No matter what you ship in the St fandom, there are going to be people who hate you for it and focus all their energy on talking shit about the ship and trying to bully down shippers of it. I truly don't understand these people because why focus on being a dick and tearing people down for shipping a ship you don't like instead of focusing on the ship you do like? I don't get it, why be a jerk?

Yes there are Byler shippers like this but the same can said for every ship in St fandom. You can't really point a finger at a ship and call all it's shippers bad because it's a moot point. Also to look at couple bad seeds and then call the whole demographic 'bad' it's so...dumb and wrong.

But the point of this post is to compare Byler and Reddie. I can't really talk about the shipping discourse around just Byler because I would have to talk about it around every ship in the St fandom and how it all connects and intertwines...that's just another post in itself.

The only reason I brought it up in the first place was to highlight the shipping discourses with Byler vs how it is with Reddie. Moving on.

There is one huge difference with the Reddie and Byler and that's Reddie is canon. Keep in mind it's only firmly canon in the movie canon, but canon is canon.

Byler on the other hand has yet to become canon. It feels like the natural progression of Will and Mike's story arc depending on how they handle it but at the end of the day, we simply don't know what will happen with the 'canon' of this ship.

You could equate Reddie's 'boom' of shippers after the 2019 movie because it became canon. Who's to say the same won't happen with Byler after season 5? If it becomes canon?

Another thing- Reddie shippers for the most part didn't expect the ship to become canon, it just didn't seem like a thing that would happen honestly. That being said they also didn't care if it didn't become canon, that wouldn't take away from the enjoyment of the ship for them. There wasn't a ton of concrete 'canon' build up to it, just speculation and theories that paid off when Reddie surprisingly became canon. When you look at Byler, there is some 'canon' buildup for it so it's not unreasonable for people to think it can happen. Reddie happened didn't it?

But let's take 'canon' out the equation real quick because I want to get to the point that started the idea of this post in my head.

Unlike Byler, Reddie has never had a real ship it was pitted against. It didn't come from a fandom where ship vs ship was common unlike Byler. I mentioned Stozier and Kaspbrough and the few bad seeds of the Reddie shippers but even with that it still didn't really happen. Probably because *romantic* Stozier and Kaspbrough were only popular in fanon and not canon.

Byler shippers do have a heavy ship they're pitted against, which honestly is a fandom issue, and that's where so much of the discourse comes from. They have justifications for wanting their ship to be canon and sometimes they have to beg to be heard.

On the other hand, the 'bad seeds' of the Byler shippers are much more numerous than they ever where with Reddie shippers and they contribute a just as much as any other St ship's 'bad seeds' to the shipping discourse and the reason for that is simple. Byler has a bigger mainstream audience, it's a so much bigger than Reddie even when Reddie was in its hayday. Logically, the more people who ship a ship, the more bad seeds there's going to be.

Okay I'm done, I ended up rambling a lot and I'm sorry. Thank you if you actually read this.

[fluffyposting]

I think it’s funny that Winona looked visibly offended at the idea of Will having feelings for El so she might also be team byler lmao.

[whyyamihereagain]

how can people compare byler to johnlock, sterek, destiel ... when st*eddie is right there

[bodegacat-withboots]

People saying byler is not popular weren’t around for earlier byler. There was zero mention of it outside of tumblr, nowadays you see people mentioning it on ship posts and even get acknowledged by show quizzes on various pages. And even if it was a marketing scheme we got acknowledged by Netflix. Before even the mention of it would make someone pull out a gun and shoot you.

[allhappyandgay]

thinking abt how shipping is inherently queer culture. mhm

something something mlvn vs byler shouldn’t count as a ship war because the odds are historically in mlvns favor

something something byler narratively makes more sense despite being a ship while mlvn’s r fighting for their canon str8 “ship”

[heliumcake]

i just find it fascinating how people will insist that mike is in love with eleven and hates will’s guts knowing full well his little heart pocket has been pointing at will the entire season

[maddy-ferguson]

gonna be honest, this 'oppressed mike' thing has become such a tiring narrative.

yes he is not a well liked character but he's not the first one to get disliked, i am sorry but other characters were and are disliked for no other reasons on the show and were unfairly misinterpreted. lucas was disliked in s1 and both lucas and caleb got racism for it as well. max was called a b*tch in s3 because ppl blamed her for mike and el's break up. will is constantly called a whinny bowl cut and called slurs by the audience as well as a homewrecker. even el gets weird stuff from shippers and nancy gets called a b*tch due to her getting in the way of mlm ships. the only character who never receives hate is probably dustin. it's so annoying when ppl try to portray mike as some uwu oppressed character who gets blamed while being innocent when other characters received the worst already. mike is not specially oppressed or hated on, sorry.

basically what ima said + this post like...people stopped liking mike because of the way he acted. it's not rocket science. the girls who get it get it, the girls who don't might get it after season 5. but some of them won't

[itsjustbyler]

How did you get into byler?

When did you realize byler is endgame?

What are your thoughts on the popular theory, flickergate?

And do you think that Max will wake up?

Oh, this is gonna be long... let's go

How do I get into Byler:

Well, i first watch stranger things last year. I tried to watch it twice but couldn't past the first minutes of the first episodes and I have no idea why. One day i was scrolling TikTok and I saw someone really mad saying that the writes should confirm Will's sexuality because it was queerbaiting and all. After that i decided to watch the show to see what was happening. I already knew there was a debacle about Will's sexuality. When watching S1 and S2, i thought mlevens was really cute and while I knew Will was gay, i didn't notice his feeling for Mike. However, there was something off not with Will, but with Mike for me. But I ignored the feeling after mleven reunion in s2. After season 3? No way, i hated Mlven from the beginning. Those awkward make out sessions, the way they were treating their friends specially Will. The rain fight made me hate Mike, ngl. When Will destroyed castle byers i understood that he was in love with Mike. But the aftermath made me confused asf. Mike biking in the rain after him? By the end of season 3, as i already say here, i was really mad with mlven and it was worse after she kissed him and he doesn't reciprocate. Wdym she doesn't even gave him a choice? His face? Something was really wrong but i couldn't put my finger on it. And then we have season 4. Mike doesn't saying ily to El and I was like "ok, this shit again", then Mike treating Will badly. I was mad with Mike and El throughout the whole season and that monologue made me cringe so much. However, i did notice the chemistry with Mike and Will and how their scenes had a double meaning. When I finish watching, i came to reddit of all places to ask if someone thought about it too and damn. I never felt so hated, that was HORRIBLE. People called me names and said I was stupid and I didn't even know why, but then I saw the byler slide there and decided to read it. That bought me to Tumblr and after reading a lot of theories i rewatched the show in English and BAAANG, Byler endgame for sure hahaha.

When did you realized Byler is endgame?

Reading theories and rewatching the show without the heteronormativity glasses LOL

My thoughts on flickergate.

Is it the theory where Mike and Will kissing caused the light to flicker in S1? I like the theory and I think it's cute but I don't think it's going to happen. I think if they are going for it, it's going to be more realistic if Mike tried to warn himself to go after Will. I imagine Mike and Will in the garage and they hear themselves as kids, Will saying "see you tomorrow", and in a attempt to change what happened, Mike just do the thing with the lights... i dunno if it's actually this that the theory refers, it's been a while since I read about it.

Do i think Max is gonna wake up?

I really really want to but I don't know if she will? They focused so much in her letters to them, that they should read only if she dies. The one for billy was actually a focus for an entire episode called "Dear, Billy". I want so bad for her to wake up but I am not so confident that she will...

ty for the ask and sorry for the bad english!!

[ru-inn]

Scrolling through the anti byler tag and saw someone say that before s4 we didn't consider lumax "serious" and that we do now cause it "fits our narrative"...

Boo I'm sorry to inform you that I was a lumaxer since s2! Honestly I was probably a lumax fan before I even properly started shipping byler lmao

[jahiaang]

another day on twitter is another day seeing milkvans talk shit about will and reduce mike's character at the same time. protecting byler by words is not enough i need a fucking gun.

[wastelandbabyblue]

shout out to me for always picking the most hated sides of fandoms <3

[a-nybodys]

alright im gonna say it

if any of you were queerbaited by stranger things that ones on you

[oniwa-a]

everyone loves angsty gay will byers but can we take a moment to acknowledge mike’s internalised homophobia and how it’s so important to understanding his character, byler, and elmike?

- he lived in the midwest in the 70s and 80s (need i say more)

- he has parents who supported the republican candidate, ronald reagan, in the ‘84 presidential election (whose administration denied the AIDS epidemic)

- he comes from a typical american nuclear family

- he has endured homophobic bullying

of course he doesn’t know how to act around will OR el… his subconscious is starting to realise that as important as el is to him, he’s never going to feel about her the way he does about will 😭 he’s confused and dealing with guilt and self hatred, but unlike will, he’s not sure WHY, and that’s a different kind of hurt

and i think reddit st fans hate mike and think of byler as an unrealistic, fangirl type ship because they don’t understand this part of his character