#i canon that he hates mel because there can only be two bad bitches on the council.... and it needs to be him ofc

[melmedarda]

⸻ COUNCILOR SALO (serving unparalleled levels of cunt as per usual), Arcane

[thebadtimewolf]

Hello! I hope you don’t mind this message but I immediately jumped into the rose tag after the episode. When you say Rose died 6 times to sutekh what do you mean?

I’m not familiar with extended canon much sorry if this is a silly question :)

shorter answer: hi! it's not a silly question at all! rtd chose screengrabs of eps where rose tyler was directly in the crossfire of sutekh gift of death so she couldn't react or run. it was a choice he made! a choice! to show that beach! Again! and then put the line of 2005! Out of 15's mouth! Rose was dead before she can even start something something haunting the narrative something something blue drapes something something im sure tentoo had fun experiencing his first human death!

shortest answer but really a reminder for everyone including you: tumblr doesn't go by tags when you search (in this case) rose tyler. it goes by who types out the words "rose" and "tyler" in a post and lumps it in there with the rose tyler tag even if said post or reblogged post isn't even tagged at all. THEY USED TO! IT USED TO NOT BE CLUTTERED! BUT NOW THEY DONT! SO NOW WE GET RANDOM BOOBY BOT SPAM LINKS! I HATE IT THANKS. but also if you also see this in the tag, my point about this is made

short answer: get familiar with extended canon because rtd pulling all these bitches out for tv so u can be prepared and have further context and further horror (but fun! fun horror!) on the why is it so devastating, why the dr is so horrified but knows the villain, why it's exciting to see these things for that do know extended canon both televised, comic, book, audio, etc etc etc it's fun. it's like a rabbit hole that actually warms you while latching onto you. like the beetle backpack. but fun! plenty of fans of the show outside your bubble can show you where to look, to read, to listen, to watch, but only if you actually want to learn more about it yourself. rtd is coming in with the televised/written mindset that you already know eu and prev seasons and prev marketing strategies and prev characters referenced. that's why everything 15 brings up is short and brief about it.

long answer because brain go brrrrrrr

the shots shown of where the tardis lands in the Memory Tardis monitors shows shots from s1 s2 and s4 of eps that rose tyler was in where she was standing in front of the ship before she gets a chance to reaction ie the shots of the TARDIS before dematerialising from said location

the beach shot, pete's world - specifically the shot before tentoo and rose can look at each other in s4 journey's end

2005 was the year 9 frequented the most in regards to earth but they do two shots of rose tyler's eps (one is a cctv shot of born again/christmas invasion tardis standing after he gets carried off), (another shows the bad wolf space station) to really highlight how devastating sutekh plan actually is by showing that no matter what reality one can escape to, if the doctor or rather the tardis piloted by the doctor lands there, sutekh spreads the gift of death or as im starting to call it, the imotep tsunami

which make sutekh, if anything very through, to kill rose tyler way too many times and it looks less like 'oh rose is such a threat' and more like a dog attacking someone that harmed someone the dog cared about.

a tad over kill methinks but, it highlights the relatable devastation that the doctor has to connect to the audience that no one and nobody that isn't the current onscreen companion, not even rose marion tyler herself, is immune to sutekh over reaching hand of death.

even mel bush got hit in the end because she was a former companion.

but it's all saved at the end.

It's just that rose tyler and tentoo (tentoo's proper first time dying like human because of an invasion awwww bless! his first death as a human!!! I'm sure he was geeked out!) now have additional trauma of dying and not being able to do anything about it because the tardis screengrab they use is moments after them JUST RECIEVING the tardis seed, with him taking off.

at least in a way sutekh was probably the reason why 10 and 14 are mayfly regenerations. they didn't last as long but they made an impact.

funnily enough, this is probably the only proper harkness death where he stayed dead since abbadon. so i know when he came back AND SAW GWEN ALSO BRUSH DUST OFF HERSELF he probably cried tears of joy because it's the first time he got to die alongside the human race with a friend

so yeah fun story to tell mia when she's younger AND BBY TONY TYLER OH GOD LULUBELLE AAA sorry but I hope this somehow answers this. I'm still reeling that gallifrey essentially got dusted SO MANY TIMES that dhawan!master being sad about wiping out the species (who is death's champion) is essentially just went sad about the lie being fed to him and that he gambled with the toymaker FOR NOTHING sorry sorry anyway. christmas special might be a doozy. it just feels that way.

[kinetic-elaboration]

July 20: Thoughts on The 100 2x04, Many Happy Returns

It’s literally been five months since I did one of these…

The wasteland was a pretty cool concept and I’m sad that they kinda pulled back on it later. Like, when characters can get from point A below the wasteland to point B above it without apparently passing through it at all, it makes it seem like the area is actually not that big after all. Is it, like, just NYC? And maybe the metro area? Also, again, as usual, floored by the costuming on this show. Amazing.

So Zoran is the first human Jaha meets on Earth. A kid and a mutated human.

Clarke is so intensely pragmatic. She legit doesn’t care if people once tried to kill her, as long as they aren’t trying to kill her now. I don’t really see this as forgiveness, but rather an ability to forget the past that isn’t useful to her. Also lol @Anya for saying Clarke is weak, like who broke who out of the Mountain hmmm?

“Everything is Grounder territory.” Murphy telling the truth. And even if some parts of the world aren’t Grounder territory, how the hell would Bellamy know?

Murphy, canonically a terrible runner. Rewatching these early eps just reinforces his glow up since then. (Not in terms of running, but in terms of, like, haircut.)

The wreckage of the Factory crash is so devastating, following the trail of bodies to the crash site. I still wish we’d found out what happened to everyone else. I guess we’re supposed to assume the rest of the stations exploded before impact? But still. I feel some bitterness.

This saving Mel story is entirely, 100% about keeping Bellamy, Finn, and Murphy stuck for most of an episode, allowing Octavia to find them, and then forcing Bellamy to come back to Camp Jaha rather than continue searching for Clarke—so he can, you know, run into Clarke. It’s pure filler. And imo not even very interesting filler since I’m not really like a rescue/adventure story person. I can’t even figure out how Mel ended up stranded along the side of the cliff. Was she climbing up and then got tired? Also, on a related note, at what point do they, Bellamy in particular, realize which station this is? Is it immediately obvious from the wreckage, or only from the identity of the survivor? Because this is Bellamy’s home.

All that time they were talking, Sterling was there in the background, doing whatever. Honestly though shame on Bellamy a little for letting Finn convince him not to save Mel.

Totally forgot they built an electric fence at Camp Jaha. Then, began work on a radio beacon.

I can’t even pay attention to the Clarke and Anya scenes because I’m too attracted to both of them. Less so in the mud. Which is 100% gratuitous given that uh, I don’t think the Mountain Men who almost never go outdoors and are currently wearing big ass gas masks on their faces can smell shit.

Bellamy and his adventure squad are such dumbasses. Huh, let’s tie this thin rope with a single knot around a stump and then just watch our friend use it to scale the side of a mountain. Nothing can go wrong there. I mean there are fucking four of them just standing around watching when they could be, uh, securing the rope? Anyway RIP Sterling, cause of death: idiocy. (Slash the narrative’s need to put Bellamy in the hero role at this point, and to up the ante on his heroism, and to waste some time.)

To be more fair, I think this is semi-important for Bellamy’s characterization, an early version of ‘save who we can save today.’ He’s at a sort of crossroads at this point, not really a leader anymore like in S1, but sort of a leader, and he needs to figure out what sort of leader he’ll be.

Monroe’s “Sterling was one of us” warms my heart because it speaks to my “the 100 were a distinct social group” theory, which I wish (again lol) had been more important to the show and for longer.

Murphy does fall in, though, pretty fast. After Monroe says the ‘one of us’ thing. Which is actually pretty impressive given that a few days ago he was blasting a hole in the dropship and running away with all their ammunition.

This must be such a trip for Jaha, like, he is aware that forest exists still, because of transmissions from the 100, but he’s in the middle of the fucking desert, and this is all he knows of Earth, whatsoever. Also, again, these sets are perfect, I love them so much.

How did the City of Light become a legend among the Grounders? It’s made from the Alie 1 chips…. Didn’t Becca, like, not like those? I’m assuming of course that literally any of this was ever thought out or ever made sense.

“I have no room for hate.” You know what I’m just gonna say it: I think this is true. This is really how Jaha lives the rest of his life. I think people forget since he wasn’t really himself for most of S3, and even in S2 his mission to the City of Light seemed kind of nutty (and boring). But “I have no room for hate” both describes him pretty well, and is rather a lovely thing about him. If only he hadn’t been so obsessed with the COL, tbh. Searching for it was a bad idea from the very beginning and it was also, I think, a rather cowardly idea.

I forgot that this was where the concept of radiation disfigurement came in and was explained. Is that really how it works? Like random mutations, even generations after the event, from non-mutated parents? Lol I have no idea. That said, Sienna kind of looks like she has some scarring on her face, too.

Here is Jaha finding someone who left her people for her son, whereas he sacrificed his son for his people. Does this also change his mind on things going forward? Connect to his insistence on the COL, at the expense of a chunk of his people?

I miss this thing where characters knew other characters even though we’d never seen them interact before, because, like, a history exists and then the show acknowledges it. That was fun.

I shipped Raven/Wick and I don’t regret it, even though fandom’s toxicity basically killed it for me in a lot of ways. They had a good rapport. More importantly, he might literally be the only man to not take shit from Raven and to actually be brave enough to challenge her.

 Engineering is such a damn good set.

This is a weird episode because our two mains have pretty much the least important, or at least least-interesting, story lines. They’re basically just being moved into position to reunite at the end of the ep, and that’s it.

Clarke: “I just need something sharp and sterile [to remove the tracker from your arm].” Anya: bites it out with her teeth.

Why do they bother putting trackers on the Grounders? Do they escape often?

Murphy’s not only helping with the rescue mission, he’s at the head of the line.

Bellamy’s legs appreciation.

Murphy: “Don’t you worry, Bellamy, I won’t drop you.” I mean…you did once try to hang him. But by-gones I guess. I do believe at heart Murphy just wants to be part of the crew.

I think the Raven and Wick scenes are my favorites of this episode. I have two uninjured legs and I wouldn’t climb that thing; Raven is a brave bitch. And when she has to give up and come down, probably the saddest moment of the ep, along with finding Factory station. Some of this is relevant to my big bang.

 After literally all this, Finn’s still like ‘Bellamy, just drop that rando’ lol. No, bitch, don’t do this half-assed. Stop being a wimp and pull them both up.

Before it’s revealed that the horn is Octavia, this really does look like Bellamy and the No Good Very Bad Day lol: first Factory is found destroyed, then Sterling dies, then you almost die when your fake rope breaks, then someone starts shooting arrows at you, then acid fog rolls in, like, what now universe??

I guess another purpose of this story line, being fair again, is that Murphy and Bellamy are now officially friends again. Like Murphy has proven himself completely trustworthy as of that little nod between them.

“She blew the horn” is s obviously ADR to explain what exactly is happening here. Which is helpful, even though she’s clearly carrying the horn.

Blake sibling reunion!

“Three mechanics made it to the ground.” I mean… you’d think it would be more than that… what with the entirety of Mecha making it. Or was that station mostly casualties? I don’t know, this still doesn’t make sense to me, how they split up people between stations. Season 2 implied it was random, Season 3 implied it was by home station.

“Your leg’s messed up and that blows. Figure out a way to work around it.” Legit question: is there anyone else who would have said that to her?

I really, truly miss Wick tbh. One of the few characters with a sense of humor. (And yet again: he was good for Raven.)

They’re really playing fast and loose with the rules about language in this verse huh? Warriors speak English, no everyone speaks English, no English is for friends only I guess?

Jaha just wants to be a dad. Like, do I think he was a good parent… I dunno. Is he a better parent than anyone else on this show? At this point I would have to say yes. (No, Clarke does not count as a “parent” jfc.)

Ruthless Clarke ftw.

Jaha making a chess board just breaks my heart. Just let him be a dad!!

It’s been such a freaking long time since I watched this, I can’t remember if Octavia had braids in the last ep or not, like how long she’s had them. And it’s really bugging me, because someone else must have put them in, and I’m trying to figure out who that might be.

Also, where did she get the horn? I guess the implication is it was Lincoln’s… I can’t really remember. Wouldn’t it still have been on his person when he was captured?

Octavia went off the rails but at this point I’m still very fond of her.

The map Finn gives Bellamy lists ‘statue’ (Lincoln Memorial?), ‘twin trees’ (???), ‘Ark’ (Alpha Station??), and ‘amusement park’ AND amusement park is very close to Ark so my question is why didn’t they use that amusement park for something interesting??

Bellamy knows he shouldn’t let Finn go off alone but then, what can he do? Finn never really adhered to his authority. And I don’t think he feels like he can flex that right now, like it’s sufficiently established in this new order.

But he does arm Murphy. Which says a lot about how much he has decided to trust him, but also how little he trusts Finn. I forgot about this split in the character groups, though I should have remembered it, since of course this leads directly to the massacre.

“Parting, such sweet sorrow, right?” is an interesting quote from a kid who can’t spell ‘die.’

Aw, Clarke goes back to the dropship. I forgot about that. But then of course she doesn’t realize… anything. She doesn’t know the Ark is down, she doesn’t know what happened to the few of her friends who were on the outside. And her face when she sees the message to her, and only her name is still visible…

Blah blah blah fight sequence.

Creepy skeleton parts on the ground.

 I think this could have been the start of an Anya/Clarke friendship of some sort: Clarke earns her respect by fighting well, Clarke’s people protect Anya, the alliance forms… too bad they had to kill her.

And Clarke figures out where Alpha is based on Raven and Wick’s balloon.

“We fell from Earth in a football stadium. I think they already know we’re here.”

BUT the balloon is also what sets off Byrne, and gets her so worried about Grounders she authorizes the ‘shoot on sight’ command that kills Anya and almost Clarke. On the one hand, this is a nicely wrought story line. On the other hand, they shouldn’t have killed Anya, so. A wash.

Was Byrne’s worry about the balloon warranted though? I can’t decide.

Zoran, such a kind soul.

How can there possibly be a bounty on Sky People (side note: Jaha’s reaction to that name like ‘huh well I guess that is what we are’) that people all the way out in the dead zone would know about? Like… they’ve been on Earth for like a month. And the war has only been going on for part of that time, arguably. If it even is a war.

Trent Lane voice: Betrayal, yeah, stab in the back, betrayal…

Too bad “To survive, we do what we must” didn’t end up in like the fandom lexicon. It’s a pretty good variant on the theme. Plus Jaha’s just so… like he’s been fucked over but he can’t even be mad, because he gets that she’s doing it for her son and he wishes he had that chance. Watching his scenes again, I really feel like he was underrated and I miss him a lot.

I wonder what happened to Zoran and family. Were they absorbed into the hive? More generally, what happened to people seeking the CoL before ALIE could get it properly running with Jaha’s help? Did they all just… die in the desert?

Alpha Station at night is so beautiful.

And Clarke is so happy.

And this is SUCH A SETUP FOR CLARKE AND ANYA TO BE FRIENDS OMG, Anya should have brokered peace with Lexa, there was such an obvious role for her… Her death was 100% random attempt at shock, this show’s #1 worst quality, which is saying a lot.

I mean shot in the back while she’s walking away these Sky Guards are incompetent.

RIP Anya.

I really thought the Bellarke reunion was in this ep for some reason. But then I also knew Anya died right at the end—for more Shock Value ofc—so I don’t even know. I remember the scenes but nothing of their order I guess.

[superleeleehipster]

Season 8 Caryl

So The Walking Dead season 8 premiere is in less than two weeks (9 days, holy crap!), and I figured I’d give in my two cents on the potential for some Carylness during the premiere as well as the entire season. 

Speculation below the cut:

I’ve always hated the last few weeks before premieres to be honest. We get all of these reviews from various magazines and news sources about episode one, and it can cause some major stress leading up to it for people who actually read them. But unfortunately, at the end of the day, whether or not the episode is good is always arbitrary. Same thing with Caryl moments. 

We know from TSDF page that Carol and Daryl share a hug and a brief conversation during the premiere, so there’s definitely some massive potential for good interaction. However, not a whole lot of commentary has appeared in regards to the way in which they interact. Brandon Davis said nothing about a Caryl moment, but then again he’s not a Caryl person, so his opinion should always be taken with a grain of salt. The only other source that we’ve heard from about the Caryl moment had said that “we don’t ship them anymore. Carol just looks like a friend Daryl desperately needs”... 

First of all, who’s ‘we’? Secondly, for me it really depends on the reason as to why they don’t ship Caryl anymore to think like that. Is it because Carol and Daryl’s interaction in the premiere is more platonic? Or is it because so much time has passed and so little interaction has occurred between them that they’ve just given up on the idea that it’ll happen? B/c, logically, a relationship (or at least ambiguous potential of one happening in the future) would’ve happened by now, right?... if the writing was good, then yes it would’ve. So I wouldn’t get too worried about that review b/c, again, it’s arbitrary. I think they don’t ship them anymore simply b/c it’s been too long and the writers have failed to show enough that there’s a potential relationship there. 

Now I’m not saying Caryl won’t happen, I’m just trying to make a point that the writers struggle with relationships. The vast majority of the relationships on TWD right now happened very suddenly, and with barely any progression to it. Denise and Tara were out of the blue, Sasha and Abe (although sweet) were still awkward and sudden, even Richonne’s canon moment was questionable. I swear to any Richonners reading this that I’m not downplaying your ship, I am simply stating that the writers should’ve done better for you. They had obviously progressed Rick and Jessie’s relationship before they actually kissed, most ppl knew that was going to happen eventually. Then Jessie dies, and literally the next episode, Rick and Michonne get together. Yes there was potential build up before they arrived at ASZ, but recent buildup was nonexistent. He was with Jessie, she dies, then bam, he’s with Michonne. 

My point is, the canon moments for most of the relationships we’ve seen are often very out of the blue, and unfortunately I don’t see Caryl happening any differently. I’m sure when it happens we’re going to jump for joy... then start complaining about lack of progression beforehand. But it’s been a problem that the writers have had all this time. I’m not saying this to be negative, I’m only saying that just because there’s not much progression, doesn’t necessarily mean canon won’t happen. Is it the right way to write it? Fuck no, but we’re stuck with the writers we got.

In regards to Norman’s comments about various ships with Daryl, honestly, I don’t pay much attention to what he says most of the time. Ever since season 4, Norman has always been a bit uncomfortable with shipper questions. But he doesn’t like confrontation and he also doesn’t like letting people down, so he doesn’t ask “don’t ask me those questions please”. He is a people pleaser first and foremost, and he’d rather flirt the canon line with every ship than pick one to fangirl over b/c he’s seen the hate that comes from the shipper wars attacking each other. Is it the right way to play the field? Nope, but he doesn’t see it from our perspective. That’s why he’s sometimes described the idea of making Caryl canon almost scary b/c he’s seen the hate that can come from it. Melissa got a shit ton of hate after Beth died b/c there were stupid rumors about Mel’s influence on Beth’s death (none whatsoever). She still gets hate now from ageist assholes and the like, so I’m sure even Mel has some trepidation about them going canon. I’m not saying this to defend him, I’m just saying it to help ppl understand why he says stupid shit. Norman does have the potential to say really good things, but at the same time he’s said really crap things, so I just focus on the good. Keeps me sane XD.

At the end of the day, only listen to Norman if he’s flanked by Andy or Melissa b/c his answers will be much more thoughtful then... and for the love of god, run the fuck away if he’s flanked by Kirkman or Greg (especially).

8x01 Hug

Okay, so supposedly Caryl share another hug in the premiere (woo!) as well as a brief conversation. So far we haven’t really gotten the specifics on what this hug looks like or how it goes down, and we probably won’t until we see it for ourselves. What I will say is that oftentimes a caryl scene is downplayed to the audience, whether be from Brandon Davis or TSDF peeps. For example, in The Same Boat, the only thing we heard about the Caryl reunion was that “they share a quick hug”. It wasn’t that much to go on, and I know many of us were bummed at how that sounded. However, it wound up being more sweet than we anticipated. We got the soft shoulder grab and him asking, almost desperately if she was alright. Then the chin tilt, and then the hug with Daryl’s hand holding Carol’s head. Not to mention he stuck by her after, putting himself between her and the last Savior. That was a lot of detail within “a quick hug”, and I’m sure this one will be no different. Melissa and Norman, whether ppl like it or not, have very good chemistry, and they are able to use it and feed off each other to create powerful scenes, even if the writing sucks ass.

So when I think of the premiere hug I picture it as either Carol coming up and hugging him while he’s sitting on his bike and nuzzles him again (he does the same). Extra brownie points in that scenario b/c she’ll technically be in between his legs :D. Or Carol will say stay safe and walk away, but he calls her and walks up and hugs her, b/c he doesn’t know if he’ll ever see her again. 

In regards to their brief conversation, since it’s brief I highly doubt they’ll talk about the really tough stuff, like Carol’s guilt over the girls or Daryl’s guilt over Glenn. I think it may just be them joking a little bit to ease some tension, and then they hug, and he’ll say “stay safe”, and she’ll say “nine lives” before pulling away. Personally I do hope that when the explosion happens later, that we get to see Daryl’s reaction. That’ll bring even more potential for an even greater reunion later on in the show b/c he won’t know if she survived the blast. 

Season 8 Canon

Now I never really expected Caryl to go canon in the premiere (motherfuckers!), but I still very much expect canon by the end of the season. I know we’re very hesitant to believe anything from AMC, and we’re scared that they published those season 8 photos just to tease/torment us. But AMC isn’t dumb, they know that if they teased Caryl and (god forbid) had Carzekiel happen, then shit would hit the fan and not in a good way. That would be a complete bitch slap to the fans, and they know that a good chunk of them wants Caryl to happen. So I don’t see them promoting Caryl pre-season as a bad sign or just a stupid tease so they could get more ratings. I think they want people to tune in b/c they’ve got something big, and they know that if they put Carzekiel together then the ppl they’ve convinced to watch will just leave again.

I’m with Ripley, and I don’t think they’d go canon until the war is over b/c that’s just not a good time to do so. In fact I’d actually get more nervous if they went canon in the middle of the war b/c then they’d have more potential for more drama if they killed one of them off later. So I think we’ll get to see them interact throughout the season, and see the potential of a romance there. But I don’t think they’d be in the right mindset for romance until after the fighting is done. 

Now hang on, bare with me for a second. I’m saying this because of Melissa’s recent interview about Carol’s mentality. Norman of course had said that Daryl’s not in the right headspace to have a romance, and we basically fried him on a stick for that, but Mel said something similar in that ‘Carzekiel’ specific article. They were talking about the potential for Carzekiel in season 8, but Melissa herself had said that Carol’s trying to keep herself from letting him in, or letting anyone in. She’s keeping everyone at arm’s length b/c she’s still having issues with having to kill people. I was hoping that after season 7 she would be on the mend with her inner demons but it still sounds like she will struggle with herself throughout the season. So it actually looks like neither character is in the right mindset for a romance, that’s why I think they’ll wait till the war is over for anything to happen. 

Anyways, I do hope we get to see Caryl interact and heal together before the season ends though, b/c frankly, I’m tired of Carol being in a miserable arc, and I’m tired of Daryl being in a hot headed, revenge quest arc. Enough with the self tormenting, I want them happy!! But fuck everyone who says anything negative about this ship, I will fucking go down with it. I will never give up on Caryl!

Caryl on loves!

[wavemaker9]

Me: Kyle and Mel having a good close friendship that makes them both happy Also me: Make them fight and have kyle jeopardize that like everything else he loves

(it got long sorry)

So Kyle doing the cornered, ‘animal in a case’ thing with mel. Unlikely if she won't press but if it did happen that'd prolly hurt mel so much if the thing she values most about her friendship with him is not feeling judged, just feeling like a lot of her perceived flaws are accepted without question. Because I've mentioned when kyle argues back defensively, he gets nasty. Just like Austin will lash out physically if pushed hard enough, if Kyle feels cornered in a convo, even if it’s only in an attempt to help him, he will turn on them verbally to get them to back off. He's not always aware of everything (see his relays with summer/doug that he dismisses the aggressively negative behavior yet his relay with art who he's frustrated with for just not displaying that art cares in a way that kyle gets), but he's pretty good at spotting people's insecurities and then using them during heated arguments without thinking about it. He wouldn't genuinely mean anything he said, he just knows. Well, his insecurities and/or fears are being brought up and he wants out of the convo more than anything, so if he does the same to them, they'll back off too. Again, Mel not being the type to press or call out specifically because she doesn’t want it back, so it's not like Cami or something where it'd be relatively likely, but if it did ever happen, suddenly this second person ever that mel has had that hasn't judged her is listing every problem and flaw she has, searching for the topic that gets the sharpest reaction and focusing on that. I remember Khep and I discussed this with Cami and Kyle and then other stuff too (during the 2p event in Hetalr, Austin said some mean stuff to Cami because he considered all the 1p nations imposters trying to fuck with them so that plus her refusing to leave because this is her friend but like super wrong finally irritated him enough that he asked her how alone she had to be to be desperate to spend time with him. basically he hopes to never see this woman again so who cares about being polite when she won’t listen to his requests), she ended up just popping him in teh face and storming off, and I have to imagine it’d be like that at least. Mat least those first few moments of accusation and betrayal and /hurt/, there’s gotta be a surge of anger that bubbles up enough to swing at least one punch his way, yeah?

Which actually speaking of that, that might be more likely to make kyle and mel clash like that since if his mood dips hard enough he’ll also get instigatory without being provoked first. It’s another self-destruction method. He gets a mindset that he deserves punishment for fucking up so badly about something and getting beat up in a fight works for that. How does he get someone mad enough to kick his ass? Make them furious with him, make them /hate/ him. And of course he doesn’t think about long term ‘do i really want them to hate me forever? No! Will they understand i was just being the world’s biggest dick to them because i was in a low place? Probably not, especially if I don’t tell them!’ so he’ll regret it later but he’s not thinking clearly now, his brain is full of bad time thoughts right now, so that’s all he can focus on, especially since in that headspace if he /does/ consider it, his brain justifies it away that he doesn’t deserve them anyway and he’ll finally send them off which will be doing them a favor and blah blah blah

Actually actually, even when he’s not in a bad place, like if he feels someone’s holding back in a fight, even if it’s just sparring, he’ll try to push them and provoke them because when he’s angry, he’s willing to fight harder, so clearly the same must be true for them. I think it was mentioned the same is kinda true for mel and that she instigates or at least instigated stuff with austin a lot in the hope it’d get him to fight her. He’s very much teh same. If he can piss them off, they’ll actually fight and that’ll be more fun than them going easy on him (I had this thought because of the taz xover since griffin had said avi was so nice he went easy on the thb when training against them and that’d annoy kyle quickly. You’re my friend and I love you but if you don’t fight me with your all that’s at best a weird unneeded secret about what you’re capable of and at worst an insult in that you think I can’t handle it, and i won’t stand for either. Gimme your hardest punch, damnit. )< ). He’s usually less emotive and fight-or-flight-y there, though, so he’ll be more careful about what he says in that he won’t aim for the comments he knows would cut deep, but he’ll reach for a lot of more shallow careless insults then and that can still get irritating very fast.

Anyway, Kyle is always super regretful and apologetic afterwards once his fight or flight reaction eases, but the problem is that he's already said those things and cannot take them back. He can apologize to mel all he wants and assure her he doesn't believe anything he said before and she shouldn't either, but he still said them. Even if mel recognized at the time that this was him being aggressively defensive, that doesn't ease the hurt of still hearing it. If she thinks about it logically, she could probably figure it didn’t mean anything and was him just being a childish asshole, but it’s hard to be 100% objective with this sort of thing. He can tell her he didn’t mean it but that doesn’t undo the hurt she felt when he said those things. It's something I never want to make canon for any of kyle’s relays because he does seriously like fuck up these good things of trust he has and that can’t easily be undone, but it’s always interesting to consider. Pushing away people he loves is something he's very good at.

Also, the one person that doesn’t tend to happen with is ivan and I think that’s very much a case of ivan never wanting to make kyle mad so he’d back off before things got that far. If he sees either of them are genuinely frustrated, he’ll back off until things cool down or switch to seeming more accommodating so that kyle doesn’t feel the need to fight as much. Besides, ivan probably would forgive kyle even if kyle said some mean shit. There might be a limit but Ivan’s super good at forgiving kyle. On the other hand, kyle would do the same if it was reverse and ivan said some super mean shit. Honestly, no matter who said it, kyle would 100% forgive the person eventually if he even remotely liked them. again, kyle took like months after being cheated on and manipulated in an old rp to even consider for longer than 3 days that maybe he should leave the relay. you have to /try/ to push him away. He wouldn’t really get past the hurt either, but it wouldn’t be a betrayal of trust or anything like I feel it would be if he was the one attacking them. Doug has gotten him really used to constant criticism and just blatant insults and has conditioned him to see that being ‘honest’, so if another friend spent 5 minutes suddenly tearing into him. Like it’d hurt and crash his mood but he’d never blame /them/. It’s /his/ fault for being so shitty. If he were better, they wouldn’t have anything to talk about, he can’t be mad at them for telling the truth, what kind of asshole does that? (see him when anyone who /isn’t/ a friend suddenly criticizes him; he’s the kind of asshole who does that) And like, he rarely fully trusts that a person 100% genuinely likes him so hearing someone suddenly flip and be overly aggressive to a hurt point like. He knew that was coming, he’s surprised they didn’t reveal how annoyed they are with him sooner. It’d never come back to the other person; it’d shake the relationship up badly enough but, unlike the reverse in at least some cases, it’d get back to where they were, and if the person showed enough effort to apologize, he’d treat them and view them exactly as he did before, no blame on them. Again, though, the exception to this is if he didn’t already like them before hand in which case it falls to the grudge level. As i’ve mentioned, poor ludwig in hetalr criticized kyle once during a bad mood time (and that time it was just genuine issues not even just aggressive argumentative callouts) and kyle has never forgiven him.

Other stray thoughts! If he did end up doing that to mel, not just mel fucking pissed off at him, but micha when he finds out what kyle did. Two friendships one stone, whoops. Micha probably even worse? Like Mel’s probably not happy with kyle but suddenly dealing with a lot of self-critical thoughts again. Micha wasn’t the target though, not dealing with that, just full on ‘how dare you make my sister feel like that’ anger. Remember that ‘bitch was talking shit, now bitch can’t talk no more’ ask micha had a while ago? That. Micha 100% killing kyle brown, fucking finally. Even if mel recognized why kyle did that and eventually got even partially past that, i feel like micha wouldn’t ease up on that even after some time because that wasn’t at him, that was at mel. He liked Kyle, a part of him still wants to like him, but that man hurt his sister terribly and so Kyle can suck a fucking big one.

Also, less expected, but like. austin would def kind of side with mel, too. Mainly because he’s just so annoyed by kyle constantly, it’s very much the burr vs hamilton ‘i just want him to stop talking and acting so confident, that’s what i’m here for’ thing, but also. Like in family au especially, kyle gives /a lot/ of shit to austin. Like /a lot/. I’ve made at least a couple posts about how kyle knows how to get under austin’s skin and knows austin doesn’t have the strength to get him back so he fucks with austin constantly. Austin’s in a bad combination zone in that he’s family so teasing/being a dick as a form of showing love is acceptable to kyle, and austin’s cold and selfish personality makes him seem like a dick to kyle + he’s not trying by kyle’s standards so it falls under ‘the asshole has it coming’ category. Austin tries hard, just like mel, or kyle, or anyone else. It’s not always obvious and there are some times sure where he’s not trying as hard as he could, but more often than not, austin actually is doing his best to just manage here. he’s not an overachiever or anything. when he cares, it’s barely and surprising, but just because he’s not putting his all into it every second doesn’t mean he isn’t trying at all. But he’s cold, he’s selfish, he’s asocial and solitary, he’s not charismatic or kind or loyal or empathetic, he’s passive and he takes for granted the things /kyle/ sees as austin’s best assets in life (his family), he’s all the things kyle looks down on, and there aren’t many things kyle /does/ feel like he can look down on, so kyle looks downon them extra hard. I said how kyle is very much the ‘as long as you’re trying your best, that’s fine!’ person, but the catch to that is that /he/ has to accept that you’re trying your best. Just like how he’ll not always catch on that someone loves him as much as they do because they’re not showing it in ways he recognizes as affectionate or caring, he also is clueless to the idea of someone trying in a way he doesn’t recognize. It’s really something i guess most if not all teh australias show, but while with aus and aud, that conflicts with people like mel, for kyle, he wouldn’t get aus or aud. That’s why he totally gets mel is trying, it’s very much in the same way he is. But austin’s trying is by being reserved and proper, and it doesn’t make sense so clearly austin just /isn’t/ trying. Kyle is very aware of only the things he can recognize. He understands that people have different views and ways of handling things like scientists understand how the brain works. He knows it’s technically there, and he understands parts of that to a point when given the chance to learn, but if you really look at how much he gets that, it’s surprising how little he actually understands for how open minded he tries to be sometimes. Which is another thing i don’t like about him. I gushed before and said i was too hard on him but right now nah i remember why i don’t like him, i’m probably about right in how hard i am on him.

Anyway, austin deals with kyle’s shit constantly and, as i’ve mentioned in the hp au talk, he’s well aware that kyle’s charisma and charm and loyalty and people-pleasing nature all make people like him more. He’s obnoxious and irresponsible and reckless and instigatory and has about a billion double standards that are shitty as fuck, but kyle tries to make friends and is passionate enough to win people to his side, so people tend to not acknowledge kyle’s shitty behavior as much when he’s an asshole to austin. They're easily swayed by the ‘he was an asshole and had it coming. Besides, we’re cousins so it’s fine’ argument. He knows Kyle has his ‘good’ sides, but he also is aware of kyle’s negatives, sometimes seemingly more so than kyle is. Which makes the ‘austin’s not trying’ conclusion kyle reaches even worse because austin’s trying specifically to keep his more negative sides on lock, like his bad temper. Kyle lets that shit run free and then has the nerve to criticize austin for not trying?? And I don’t think austin would be annoyed in any cases where mel and micha befriend kyle. Again, he expects that, and while mel and micha are his best friends, he doesn’t fully see them as such and certainly not in a ‘tehy’re /my/ friends, you can’t have them’ way. They’re adults, if they want to befriend kyle great. Maybe they can distract him so he stops trying to hang out with austin all the time, that’d be nice. But austin probably mentioning that to mel when she and kyle are first going to meet. She’s an adult and can choose her own friends but kyle is (“objectively” austin says which he isn’t but to austin he is) terrible and she should have all the information and understand how fucking annoying kyle is sometimes before she meets him. Of course he’s bad at clearly listing all the reasons why with examples, and he complains about everything, so it probably comes off as a ‘oh he’s just annoyed because kyle’s all energetic and fun and austin hates fun’ thing. 

But then kyle reveals the shitty child he is underneath and it turns out austin was actually somewhat right? I also think, if mel was confronted by just how aggressively hurtful kyle can be in his worse moods, that’d surprisingly not be an ‘I told you so’ moment from austin (provided she didn’t make a huge deal of dismissing any early comments he made. If she did, she’d get a little ‘i told you so’ then). Because again, people being charmed by kyle happens all the fucking time, it’s not their fault they made a shitty friend. If he wasn’t asocial and totally aware of how bad to be around kyle can be, he’d probably like him more too. It’s not an ‘i told you so’ thing at this point, it’s just a ‘finally someone else sees what a jerk he can be sometimes thank god. Unfortunate it was from him messing things up again but silver linings and all that’. Austin that’s a silver lining for you, not for mel, cmon. Though on the other hand, It might be an ‘i told you so’ at /kyle/. Mel didn’t do anything wrong by befriending him, but austin’d absolutely use this as a ‘hey, get off your high fucking horse and acknowledge that you’re a piece of shit!’ thing which is relatively ironic coming from austin. I mean, just because austin’s trying doesn’t make him any less of a piece of shit too, since he doesn’t actually regret a lot of the hurtful things he does to people and, as mentioned with the cami thing, he’s willing to do hurtful things if he feels they’re necessary to his best interests, he just also doesn’t pretend like they don’t exist. Austin thinks the positives of his personality outweigh the bad, sure, but he still has some bad he knows about and tries to handle and he’s also fully aware not everyone would view all those positives as positive. He knows he has a bad temper so he avoids things that irritate him and 90% of the time it’s /kyle/ pushing him into those situations that set him off. Kyle should recognize by now how aggressive he himself gets when defensive, how much he can hurt people, but does he try to avoid those cases? No, of course not. That would take being responsible and mature! Half the time, kyle purposefully tries to provoke people as some self-destruction attempt that he doesn’t care about dragging someone else down with him on.

I think i’ve mentioned before that this is why i prefer austin to kyle despite, weighing the pros and cons of their personalities, how kyle would more likely be the ‘better’ person than austin is. Kyle has a lot more pros and they are to a far higher extreme, but the negatives are equallly as low and he ignores them completely. Refuses to acknowledge them, very irresponsible about that. Even when called out, he gets dismissive or instigatory or that ‘can’t you take a joke’ bullshit that I think I still hate most about his personality. Austin is a dick but he’s usually aware of it, knows he’s not a total victim in life. He’s more responsible and part of that is accepting bad behavior in oneself. Changing bad behavior is usually the best option, but neither boy does that. Austin at least accepts and acknowledges it and tries not to go out of his way to let it affect others. He’s polite in most cases if he has to socialize with someone, and besides that he does try to stay on his own most of the time. That’s also, again, the asocialness, but he sees it as a win win for everyone. I’m going to be annoyed by them, they probably won’t appreciate me, it’s best we keep to ourselves. Kyle hides it before springing it on someone and, again, I know that’s not 100% his fault, it’s very much a side effect of his childhood and a nasty combination of disorders he’s struggling to deal with, but that doesn’t make it 0% his fault either. Cool motive, still murder, except not murder of course, just being an asshole, but i still very much like that phrase for that kinda thing. It’s great that he has a reason to explain why he feels the need to behave like that, but he’s not unaware. It may feel hard or impossible not to choose that option, like, say, staying up late again for 2 weeks in a row when I definitely know I need more than ~5 hours of sleep a night- but that’s still me failing to go to sleep on time. i might have to fight myself on it some nights, but i’m still making that choice, y’know? 

In most au’s, someone points it out to him at some point, and he refuses to change that bad behavior and worse, it’s often times not even a ‘i’m trying but I can’t’ situation, he just doesn’t want to acknowledge another flaw of his and that is. That’s why he drives me up a fucking wall sometimes. He always tries to portray himself as super friendly and understanding and accepting and good, he tries so hard to be good. like i said, when he cares, it’s so much and over the top and to the point of sacrificing at a moment’s notice, but he can get a holier than thou mentality on morals and yet either isn’t aware enough or just doesn't care to see both the attempts other may make using methods he’s not used to as well as how necessary it is to address and try to change his own major and friendship-threatening flaws. I have my own high standards for others that I myself don’t meet, but I don’t fuck over people who don’t meet those standards either, y’know? I go ‘maybe we’re both shit’ and I move on with my day. He’s literally the ‘when he’s good he’s great’ line except instead it ends with ‘but when he’s bad i wanna kick his fucking ass’