#imagine spending 20 hours on a piece of art and nobody ever says anything about it

[mannatea]

Fanfiction writing and posting culture has shifted so much over the last 20 years. Every time I read anything on r/fanfiction, not only do I lose brain cells, but I feel like a huge, huge part of fanfiction culture has moved toward reading only completed works and avoiding engagement at all cost, but particularly until a work is finished. There was a post yesterday by someone celebrating the fact that a fic they had on alert updated because it had "been so long" since the last update: it was a wait of one and a half months.

That isn't that long for a writer with a spouse and/or children and/or a busy career and/or someone busting ass at school and/or a life outside and off the internet.

While a lot of comments did chastise this person for their perceived idea of a long wait for an update, there were also a few comments from readers proclaiming that this was why they never read incomplete works.

Heck, there were one or two (upvoted!) comments about how writers should simply pre-write everything if they wanted feedback.

Don't get me started on the posts by people that read hundreds of fics a week and yet never comment. "Gosh, I wish I there were more fics for xyz." As if there's not something they can do about that by simply commenting on the works that do exist to show the authors the content they made has an audience!

As a fanfic writer specifically, I find this weird attitude toward the creative work of other people more than a bit discouraging (and sometimes deeply uncomfortable). Fanfiction, like fanart, is a social experience. I create a thing and then others engage with it to encourage me to do more of the thing. I am not a machine and I do not exist for your entertainment or pleasure, but the way fandom leans these days would lead you to believe authors and artists exist for the purpose of consumption.

I am a whole person and doing this costs me my time. For a long story, many many hours of time.

I don't think it's asking too much for people who took the time to read a story (and in particular those who enjoy it) to engage with it.

This doesn't even touch the weird "I only read completed fics" mindset and how it feels to see that sentiment echoed as an author.

"Just write it all in advance before posting it then." Do you even know how long it takes to write a story—to write a longform fic with a plot to completion?

Break Open the Sky was 102,000 words long (and this is short compared to a lot of longfics, so keep that in mind). Even if you assume a writing speed of 1,000 words an hour (generous, because some difficult passages will be much slower to write), that is a whopping 102 hours. That doesn't include the time I had to spend to go back and re-read to continue the story. That doesn't include outlining. That doesn't include note-taking. That doesn't including mapping out locations and distance for travel. That doesn't include editing or formatting to post, either, which took hours per chapter.

I have to sacrifice something else to be able to write. No video games, no movies, no books, no television, no nap, no goofing off online.

Comments become a big motivation, especially on a WIP. It doesn't feel like a waste of time then, to get a little less sleep or take a little less time for yourself; it gives the writer something to look forward to: interaction and socialization with fellow fans. And I don't think the cost is that high for a reader compared to the hundreds of hours it might have cost me to be able to show it to them in the first place.

But nope, r/fanfiction is really out there complaining that fics don't update (even though they didn't bother to comment) and that longfics aren't finished before they start being posted (even though they still don't comment as the story is being posted) and then complaining that there aren't enough fics for [ship]/[trope] even though they are really out there refusing to engage in fandom in a meaningful way that might encourage authors whose work they enjoy to continue to create.

TL;DR: creation costs time.

[unscharf-an-den-raendern]

Interview with Ralf from 2005 (translated from German)

Read the original German version here: http://www.electroempire.com/index.php?thread/1755-ralf-h%C3%BCtter-kraftwerk-interview-2005/

They’re the most influential German band of all time, for a third of a century they advanced and shaped electronic music like no one else. During that time, they only gave about one hundred interviews worldwide, the living legends are considered to be media-shy. Now Arschmaden-rave-magazin managed to be the first German magazine since 2001 to get an exclusive interview with the Düsseldorf sound pioneers Kraftwerk. Hauke Schlichting was allowed to spend almost an hour on the phone with Ralf Hütter and found out that music gods are also completely normal people sometimes.

Hauke Schlichting: Are there many pre-order of the notebook edition of “Minimum Maximum” already?

Ralf Hütter: I think so. Kraftwerk is not just music, we also create the lyrics, the pictures and the entire visual concept. I’ve been doing that with my partner Florian Schneider since 1970. This notebook edition enables us to put a lot of ideas into effect that we had for a long time. And now that it's finished, it's a liberating moment.

Hauke Schlichting: I once saw you in the audience of a talk by Oskar Sala. I suppose that pioneers like Sala, John Cage and certainly Karlheinz Stockhausen were a source of inspiration for Kraftwerk...

Ralf Hütter: Especially in our living environment in the second half of the sixties. Our friends and we were involved in the art scene. Electronic music was not foreign to us.

Hauke Schlichting: In an old interview from 1976 you said: "The world of sounds is music.” The first thing that came to my mind was whether the members of Kraftwerk listened to and liked music by noise musicians or even industrial music? Is that a similar approach?

Ralf Hütter: I can only speak for myself now, but I definitely see a spiritual kinship there. Definitely.

Hauke Schlichting: You called your music "Industrial Folk Music" once...

Ralf Hütter: Yes, but not with an F. It was about "Industrielle Volksmusik", the English translated it. It was an idea of the electronic Volkswagen. That's a concept. We have always reported on everyday things. "Autobahn", for example, was an attempt to make everyday music.

Hauke Schlichting: Is there any electronic music from - let's say the last 20 years - that inspired you?

Ralf Hütter: Yes, especially this spiritual kinship between the two cities starting with a D.

Hauke Schlichting: Düsseldorf and Detroit!

Ralf Hütter: Right. We know the creative heads of Detroit like Derrick May, Mike Banks and Kevin Saunderson. And that's what we consider to be a real inspiration, alternating, which finds its sound in this language. The dynamic that's in there, like in here. This electric funk or whatever you want to call it, that's a spiritual kinship.

Hauke Schlichting: Were the first Cybotron records of Juan Atkins things that you already noticed back in 1981?

Ralf Hütter: We were also in New York earlier, where the record company took us to some afterhours in non-authorized clubs.

Hauke Schlichting: They already existed back then!?

Ralf Hütter: Yeah, sure, at the end of the seventies. Then we had the experience that Afrika Bambaataa played our song “Metall auf Metall”. I thought, oh, fine, and then more than a quarter of an hour went by and I started wondering, because the song is not that long. Until I realized that he combined it with several record players.

Hauke Schlichting: A live remix with turntables, so to speak...

Ralf Hütter: That must have been in '77.

Hauke Schlichting: Mr Bambaataa is definitely a pioneer as well.

Ralf Hütter: Definitely.

Hauke Schlichting: There are an infinite number of songs nowadays which obviously sampled Kraftwerk. You were once described as "the most sampled artists besides James Brown". Are you annoyed when this happens without being asked?

Ralf Hütter: In the right music it is mental communication. Creative feedback. But if they appear on any “cucumbers” (Translator’s note: Ralf means bad musicians) or purely commercial products, then our publishing house will take action.

Hauke Schlichting: Do you collect your own records? If you want to own all the Kraftwerk records, including all the different pressings, you’d have to collect several thousand.

Ralf Hütter: I think that's materialistic nonsense. It's like collecting beer coastes. That’s totally uninteresting. It's about music, not about some pieces of plastic.

Hauke Schlichting: But they say that you collect old synthesizers.

Ralf Hütter: Our studio has been changing constantly since 1970, there are always new things being wired, installed or programmed. Improved. So often some equipment is put away, first in the warehouse, because you might need them again. At some point they were standing there, nobody wanted them, then they got dusty, then reactivated in the Kling Klang Museum. Ten years later we restored and repaired them all to the latest state of the art. Now we have been asked if we could make them available for an exhibition, but at the moment we can't give them away because they are actually in use. Over the last twenty years, we have transferred all the original Kraftwerk sounds to the digital level. Together with our electrical engineers Fritz Hilpert and Henning Schmitz.

Hauke Schlichting: You used to take a lot of equipment weighing tons with you on tour.

Ralf Hütter: Yes, the Kling Klang Studio is our instrumentarium. It has been like that ever since the first concerts. At that time they were still single instruments or single racks with many cables. Then at some point we assembled them in multi-racks.

Hauke Schlichting: The live equipment was always identical to the studio equipment. Is that still the case now? The things you carry around with you now are much more compact.

Ralf Hütter: Now we play with the virtual Kling Klang Studio with laptops at concerts in real time and mobile. That's why we have been able to travel all over the world since 2002. Today we have complete access to the entire audio-visual show, which also changes a bit from concert to concert. That's what makes it interesting. We no longer have to build it up every day to reach a fixed status, we can work with it live. In the past we were on tour rather reproductively, a lot of things didn't work, that was actually a torture, these concerts back then. That's why we only did one tour, in 1975 ("Autobahn"), then for years almost nothing and in 1981 ("Computerwelt"), when we did another tour, we also used many tapes in addition to my analog sequencer, because our music was actually not playable live at that time.

Hauke Schlichting: The live DVD you’re releasing now gives the illusion that it is the complete recording of one concert. If you take a closer look, you will see that it has been put together from many concerts. Was there no concert that was great from front to back?

Ralf Hütter: We recorded and documented everything. We then selected the recordings based on quality and intensity. That was then put together. That is also our concept of electronic mobility. "Tour de France" should definitely be from Paris, "Autobahn" from Berlin, "Dentaku/calculator" from Tokyo. We had a lot more material available later, but we couldn't put that in. In Santiago de Chile, for example, the audience has the best timing in the world when clapping along. I've never experienced anything that synchronous before.

Hauke Schlichting: When Kraftwerk is in the studio, do you sometimes make music just for fun, just playing around a bit?

Ralf Hütter: We once said that the music composes itself.

Hauke Schlichting: That means constant trying out and jamming around?

Ralf Hütter: That's where we actually come from, we've been doing that since the late sixties. For more than a third of a century we've been walking on the same electronic path. We just try to be open for ideas. They come when you cycle, like “Tour de France”, they come when you drive, like “Autobahn”. Some things also arise from texts, from books, from all kinds of things. We use all mental ideas, we do not work according to one principle. The freedom lies precisely in the fact that all art forms are open to you today. It is a gift that we live in a time where you don't need a large orchestra and where you don't need a nobleman who puts gold ducats at your disposal. Now there is an autonomy that can be realized through the man-machine Kraftwerk.

Hauke Schlichting: Your studio seems a bit like a fortress against the outside world. But you have emphasized several times that you are not isolated at all, that you meet a lot of friends and actually lead a very normal life. But  we know relatively little about that. Does that mean that private life is the super important compensation for an artist's life?

Ralf Hütter: No, we see ourselves as scientists, as music workers. We do our work, we drink a cup of coffee in the morning, on weekends we ride our bikes. We go to clubs because the lively scene of electronic music is important to us. And that's where it takes place. We have been connected to club culture since the sixties.

Hauke Schlichting: Does that mean that you now travel more often or specifically to performances by live artists or DJs?

Ralf Hütter: Mostly that happens when we are on the road. If the travel plan allows it, because otherwise it can happen that you can't concentrate at concerts in the evening due to lack of sleep. Working at the screen, with the mouse, they’re very fine movements. Minimal movements with maximum effect on sound and images. Again a mental reference to this work "minimum-maximum".

Hauke Schlichting: Can you imagine working with other musicians?

Ralf Hütter: We already worked together with different musicians, especially with music engineers. For example with François K, with William Orbit, with Etienne de Crécy, with Orbital, with Underground Resistance.

Hauke Schlichting: The revision of your back catalogue is now finished...

Ralf Hütter: Yes, finally. It is also about clarity and now for the first time everything is as it was intended.

Hauke Schlichting: Can you release more albums in the future that way?

Ralf Hütter: Yes, also because the technical development has changed in our favour. We now have the right tools at our disposal, so we don't have to spend so much time on wiring and installation.

Hauke Schlichting: The teen newspaper Bravo quoted you in 1975 with the sentence: "One day they will imitate our music. Could you have imagined back then that this would really happen?

Ralf Hütter: Yes, we thought so at that time. We played the album to them in my old Volkswagen. We had a big loudspeaker in the back, we didn't have the kind of equipment we have today. And then my friend Florian and I drove on the motorway with our poet and painter friend Emil and Bravo. At the beginning of the seventies our music was mostly only played in special radio programmes, e.g. by Winfried Trenkler. Before "Autobahn", Kraftwerk only existed in this art and student scene. And then live, we come from this live music scene. That we now play electronic music all over the world again is something where the circle closes. Now it takes on the shape we imagined in our imagination at the time.

Hauke Schlichting: Thirty years ago you also said: "In twenty years, in our opinion, there will hardly be any groups with guitars and drums any more. For us these instruments belong to the past already today."

Ralf Hütter: Right.

Hauke Schlichting: But that didn't quite come true.

Ralf Hütter: There are many antiques. But that is still true. There are also still symphony orchestras. In our opinion, the thoughts or essence of the present can only be realized with adequate means.

Hauke Schlichting: You have very few concrete political statements in your music...

Ralf Hütter: Rather socio-political, from our everyday life.

Hauke Schlichting: You only find a concrete one in the new version of "Radioactivity".

Ralf Hütter: Yes, we inserted that because there were endless misunderstandings. We simply wanted to clarify these misunderstandings with one word ("Stop").

Hauke Schlichting: Because of the last album the topic of cycling was once again massively brought into the picture...

Ralf Hütter: I had written this lyrics in 1983 with my French friend Maxime Schmidt. Florian was experimenting with sounds at the same time with his first sampler. This resulted in the album concept "Tour de France". At that time we released only that one single under time pressure and then the ideas fell a bit into oblivion. However, this practically slumbered as a film script in a long version in the studio under the heading unfinished projects. And we just finished that now.

Hauke Schlichting: You have been active as cyclists for a very long time...

Ralf Hütter: Yes, since "Mensch-Maschine". The concept of "man-machine" has brought an awareness, from the pure sound field of music a dynamic physicality man-machine has conclusively emerged. We tried that out and the fascination has remained.

Hauke Schlichting: The unity of man and bicycle is still the man-machine.

Ralf Hütter: That's how it is.

Hauke Schlichting: The man-machine motif has always been a dream of mankind. It already existed with the Greeks, it played a major role with the alchemists, in E.T.A. Hoffmann's "Sandman", in the film "Metropolis" - there are countless examples.

Ralf Hütter: That had become reality for us. There was often the misunderstanding of the machine-man, but we were always concerned with man-machines. We are interactively connected with the machines, that has remained so until today, that is actually a synonym for Kraftwerk.

Hauke Schlichting: Was Kurt Schwitters' "Schmidt-Lied" from 1927 the model for the album "Radioaktivität"?

Ralf Hütter: I've never heard it.

Hauke Schlichting: May I quote from it?

Ralf Hütter: Yes, of course!

Hauke Schlichting: "Und wenn die Welten untergehn, / so bleibt die Welle doch bestehn. / Das Radio erzählt euch allen, / was immer neues vorgefallen. / Und funk ich hier ins Mikrofon, / hört man im Weltall jeden Ton. / Und bis in die Unendlichkeit, / erfährt man jede Neuigkeit. / Wir funken bis zum Untergang / ins Weltall kilometerlang." ("And if the worlds go under, / the wave will still exist. / The radio tells you all, / whatever new happened. / And if I radio here into the microphone, / you can hear every sound in space. / And to infinity, / you'll hear every news. / We'll radio until the end / to space for miles and miles."

Ralf Hütter: A spiritual bond!

Hauke Schlichting: It only remains for me to say that we all hope not to have to wait that long and we are looking forward to new material. You will be turning sixty next year, I hope that Kraftwerk will continue to produce music for a very long time and present it live. But if you've been cycling for 25 or 30 years, like you do, then you should probably be fit.

Ralf Hütter: Yes, we are.

Hauke Schlichting: Wonderful, good luck for the future and thank you very much.

[comicteaparty]

July 4th-July 10th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from July 4th, 2020 to July 10th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

What was an unexpected aspect of making webcomics you didn’t realize before making one yourself?

Krispy §[Ghost Junk Sickness]§

How much our comic and it's story we're going to change during the years of creation was the biggest and most jarring aspect for sure. There's scripts and thumbs that were all made before we ventured out to make GJS with paths completely different from what we initially thought we would take that have completely changed how we approach not only writing but reading webcomics too. Webcomics as a medium have the biggest connection to time, whether it be production or the consumption, they have this opportunity to exist and transform in the long hours it takes to enjoy and read them. It's honestly one of the biggest advantages imho. To see a story slowly unfold, listening to ur audience reactions, peer critiques, or new inspiration can make such a drastic and intense impact on a long form work- its both jaw dropping and humbling to be apart of!(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

For me it was the community aspect of comics. I knew a community existed on the reader side of things (comments!), but I didn't expect the creator side to be how it is! I don't know why, but for some reason I kind of always thought that all of us were sort of throwing our comics out from the void... I guess that was me looking at comics from a reader's point of view! But as soon as I started making comics, I started meeting people who made them too... and it's been incredible!

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

@deo I never really understood what an internet community or internet friends were until I started making a webcomic

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, I had been in (and quickly decided to not be in 0_0) gaming communities, but nothing really as wonderful as what I've found through comics. Closest I had gotten other than that was comments on social media

Shizamura 🌟 O Sarilho

Community definitely one of the big things, much like Deo pointed. I was kinda expecting to have get connections through readers, but it's much more with other creators, which is super satisfying in it's own way. Also gonna second Krispy's comment about how time affects how you see your story's past and future. A lot of things changed in the past four years that made my comic change as well and having so much time to think each individual scene allows them to be much more complex and interesting than they would when I first thought them through. Having the time really helps. This also kinda touches the topic of personal change too, which affects how I write and what feels most important to focus on and that's interesting to think about as well

eliushi [Keyspace]

How long things will take, the longer the story goes on! I started out being able to complete a page in 2h but then I found more I wanted to try on each page (colours, layout, composition etc) and even wanted to extend certain scenes. With 500 pages planned, I definitely thought I’d be farther along by now, heading into AWT’s first year anniversary in a month. That being said, I’m also enjoying the ride and it’s all thanks to the great community here and making connections with other comics folks/readers. I never expected to get comments and so each one has been a treasure to read.

Desnik

An unexpected aspect of making webcomics is how much people respond to them. I figured I'd be creating into a void but I met so many people as a result of publishing my dinosaur comic

shadowhood {SunnyxRain}

Ditto on the webcomic community. I didn't realize how far reaching it was to have a community that supports each other. And I've enjoyed meeting so many wonderful and creative people who raised each other up. Another thing I didn't expect, however, was how invested I got into my comic.(edited)

At first I was doing it mostly for fun. But the more I delved into it, the easier it was to get sucked into my story and want to draw it out. And as a result taking it a lot more seriously.

Desnik

yeah sometimes I miss my dinosaur comic even though I had some pretty good reasons for moving on. It was created out of desperation and evolved into something that made me feel good about myself

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

How much work and time it takes to keep a weekly update going with no backlog

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah same

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

For me, I didn't realize how much it would affect my life to make comics, and vice versa. In a weird way, I didn't know how interrelated the two were, or how easily life could interfere with my comic, or the inverse.

eliushi [Keyspace]

Making comics became a lifestyle for me

@Haruh2 (Colony Life) When I had no backlog I was updating every two weeks with 7 pages per update; so about 14h of work. But this is with a finished script. I am also told I work fast.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

omg

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

That's soooo much, Eli!

That's at least twice as much as I do (edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

For me, I didn't realize how much it would affect my life to make comics, and vice versa. In a weird way, I didn't know how interrelated the two were, or how easily life could interfere with my comic, or the inverse.

I hadn't realized how much I put myself into my comic! My friends who read it have all said that it's incredibly in my voice and reflects my opinions and worldviews Before I shared it with people I hadn't thought of it in that way at all

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

As an artist, I didn't expect how my comic production and mindset will change. Once I started comics, it brought out my ideas from thoughts to a physical form. I start to invest more time into it. Each project evolved through each chapter. How to balance script writing to a polished piece. I put alot of time and research in my works. It makes me glad to hear other creators do the same. I'm not the crazy artist who's wasting her time. One of the positive change was meeting other creators, how we give advice and receive praise.(edited)

eliushi [Keyspace]

The support has been amazing. It makes the work less lonely

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Fish, oh for sure! I didn't realize until recently how much my characters are all just facets of myself!

eliushi [Keyspace]

(I don’t work that quickly anymore and I’m making big changes to the format soon so it’s going to be a Transition)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I've been in school with art students who never made comics, so when I came to CTP discord, reading comic discussions. It was comforting and fun. I enjoy the cooperation our group has, helping each other.

eliushi [Keyspace]

I like to commiserate about the unique challenges comics have

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Hahaha, yeahhhhh

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree, it's different from illustrations. Different approach(edited)

eliushi [Keyspace]

I am perpetually balancing time spent on a panel vs how much time the reader will spend on it

Vs illustration: lemme make all the details

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Oh I agree, each panel takes longer than it takes to read it. Hence I dislike when readers call manga creators 'lazy'

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

how much time does it take to read one of my pages?

20 seconds?(edited)

haha

e.e

wait is that emoji supposed to be someone rolling their eyes??

i jsut looked it up

i might've been using it wrong this whole time

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Pacing

It's way different than in novels, and definitely came as a shock at the start

eliushi [Keyspace]

Yeah have to play to the strength of the medium. Still imagining AWT as an animated movie written from a novel, in the format of a comic

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Haha, same kinda

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

@eliushi [Keyspace] ah haha, that makes me feel better about my update habits, but thats a good goal for me to shoot for now that im learning a new way to make long comics specifically

cAPSLOCK (Tailslide)

I completely underestimated the amount of effort that would have to go into formatting, website design and maintenance, etc. If I got to do it again, a little more research beforehand probably would’ve saved me a lot of time and hassle.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

I really overestimated the "if you build it they will come" aspect of webcomics lol. Like, you actually have to work to advertise your comic in order for people to read it. Nobody ever got hundreds of readers just from posting their comic onto some hosting site without doing major marketing work.(edited)

dako

yeah, I feel that

I've never really been an advertising type before my comic, im learning to just get used to it

Deo101 [Millennium]

I've not really done much advertising tbh, it makes me uncomfortable

dako

it feels kinda...embarrassing? might be too harsh of a word

i dunno

Deo101 [Millennium]

its just uncomfortable idk! i feel awkward doing it

dako

yeah, same ive done it a few times on reddit but i have to force myself

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

it does feel, odd..hell most of the time it just feels like i open the door to my house and toss a bunch of paper to the wind hoping someone can see it

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah, I dont know if ive done anything other than posting updates on twitter and talking about it in groups like this

and twitter is mostly just me talkin to people who already read it...

idk talking about my work without being asked first makes me feel like im inserting myself where im not allowed

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Self promo got MUCH less intimidating for me when I started thinking of it like: "okay, so my comic is made for readers like me, people who share my tastes. That means I only need to answer one question: what can I say to get me to check out this comic? I don't need to impress anyone else. I just need to appeal to me." (since "me" is my target audience)

Deo101 [Millennium]

mhm ^^

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

But take it with a grain of salt because I'm still not really promoing

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

exactly, thats why i find it hard to tweet about it most of the time, but i get the whole if i dont care about to talk without being asked no one else will either

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah lmao mood im like what would get me to read... hmmm... probably exactly what im doing.... I'll keep it up then :)

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

yea i get excited to draw out certain parts..but wouldnt want to just tweet about all the little tidbits of the story ruining it for others

Deo101 [Millennium]

sweats

dako

i made a whole side twitter for my comic cuz talking about it on my main intimidated me too much

it is my containment chamber

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

hm may do that, just to say i did it and to get my mind away from the thought

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

yeah same

Deo101 [Millennium]

My main is just whatever I want it to be idk. Its kinda for all my comics, since my comics are all I want to talk about

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

though my main is mostly just retweeting from my side twitter lol

Deo101 [Millennium]

it removes a lot of the pressure of like what if my followers dont wanna see this??

cause they wouldnt be here if they didnt wanna see it

cause its all Ive been doing the whole time

dako

thats a good point

i had my main way before my comic so most of my mutuals/followers dont follow for that

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

yea, it can feel abit disorienting when there is no interaction one way or another on anything you tweet (also if twitter has messed up and causes your tweets to not show up)

Deo101 [Millennium]

but yeah I dont really advertise cause it just makes me so uncomfortable >.<

dako

understandable

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I'm kind of somewhere in between. I advertise my comic mostly because it is all I wanna talk about, like Deo. But I also don't think it's gotten me many readers. Most of my readers came as far as I can tell because I was making something that appealed to them. (The whole "if you build it, they will come" thing.) Although, I really don't have a big audience, I do have an audience, and I am certain most of them came from me just posting.

I think it's determined a lot by luck, and also, how big your niche's audience is to begin with (and some skill tbh).

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah like I think "gay sci fi" is a p big niche so ive got a big amount of people I could potentially reach

which makes it much easier to draw people in

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I'm particularly lucky, I guess, that fantasy/romance has a lot of readers (also more competition, but...)

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah fantasy romance is a damn big one

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

eh i think im in an awkward void with my action/drama story (since im not doing romance drama)

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I just go with the mindset: "what makes my fantasy/romance different from the rest" and go from there.

Deo101 [Millennium]

mhm

tbh I dont think my sci fi romance is doing anything special?

but im having fun so :) I dont rlly care about that hahahha

dako

having fun the most important thing

Deo101 [Millennium]

its not my goal to make somthing mindblowing ^^ truley im just here for a good time

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I mean, LGBT+-inclusive sci-fi is pretty unique

I haven't seen a lot

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's clear that your characters are people, and that's special, regardless of how common/uncommon

dako

think if i didnt love my comic as much as i do id have stopped a long time ago

Deo101 [Millennium]

thats true keiiii, thank you <3

also yeah its Sad that theres not more LGBT+ sci fi cause its like youve got aliennnssssssssssssssssssss you can do whatever you waaaaaant

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I knooowww

Deo101 [Millennium]

guess it shows what ppl want or something

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

yup

Deo101 [Millennium]

off topic

so to make it back on topic

I underestimated how much people would like gay sci fi GJKLAGJLAJLKAGJSLAKGJKL

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

One thing I learned specifically with my current comic... I did not realize how much difference the reader's cultural background would make in terms of interpreting my story.

Deo101 [Millennium]

!!!!!

I actually almost mentioned you in class once tbh keiii

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Big oversight, in retrospect

!?

Deo101 [Millennium]

saying "someone I know makes a comic which they noticed, it's interpreted completely differently just depending on cultural backgrounds" kind of a thing

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

like I would not have made the comic any different, but I would have approached the... presentation differently. Like, talk about it differently

Deo101 [Millennium]

cause we were talking about how narratives affect rt

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I guess another thing that was unexpected about making webcomics was... there are way more people with my exact tastes than I thought

Deo101 [Millennium]

and I was saying that I think the viewer's narrative affects art more than the artists narrative

I mean, the artists narrative obviously is what makes it so.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

In the eyes of the beholder

Deo101 [Millennium]

but interpretations and all that... yeah!!!

so. actually I might have offhandedly mentioned you I cant remember if I did or not

lemme check

I did! very like "second hand" offhandedly mentioning though ahaha

hope that doesnt make you uncomfortable GSKLGSJALGJLGK no one replied to me so e.e

in the class I mean

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I am super uncomfortable and offended !!!!!

j/k

Deo101 [Millennium]

hgjkghsjkagskajgdhsakgjhgjd

but... yeah idk starting out I truly just was making it cause I really love my characters a lot, the idea that other people would like them too is very unexpected :) in a good way

I also definitely didnt expect how important enviornments were e.e

didnt plan those well enough.

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

that relatable feel

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I really desperately advertise my comic everywhere. I don't really know how to do marketing effectively though & I don't know if its working

eliushi [Keyspace]

I find what increased readership most consistently is still the feature aspect from the hosting sites. It’s really about finding the right readers/right readers finding you

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Same, I'm basically a rounding error away from being 100% reliant on the features for subs

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I don't think my comic has ever been featured on the hosting sites. My numbers have always been low on Tapas and maybe thast why

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Yeah, features help a lot

I've been featured on Webtoon, but not Tapas, and you can really see the difference in readership there

Deo101 [Millennium]

Ive been featured on both, uhh in a couple of diff places, if you wanted a breakdown of how many readers i got from the diff spots and stuff ever just lmk im happy to share

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I've been featured on both. It certainly got people to check it out and even sub, but retaining those people (even if they've subbed!!!) is a different story. I think my story is just not the right type for the platforms, but eh, even if 99% of the platform users aren't into the kinda thing I'm making, 1% increase is still an increase.

Which is another thing I learned over the course of running this comic, specifically (since the internet has changed so much after my first two attempts). Just because the majority of your subs don't actually read the comic, doesn't mean your work sucks. Today's internet caters to casual users, and there's a bajillion factors affecting who's actually reading your stuff.

dako

i agree

my comic has never been featured on either, and webtoons doesnt have a guideline on what they pick but tapas does and my comic doesnt really meet their featuring requirements so i dont think either site ever will feature mine haha

so i gotta advertise on reddit and use twitter tags a lot

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Don't go too crazy with twitter tags; they can make people zone out and not look at your tweet.

dako

i try to use 5 at the most, i know too many is unpleasant to look at haha

Jib {WIP haha}

Oh huh, my rule of thumb is to use 1-2 on twitter and as many as I can on Insta but I’m no expert lol

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, IG seems to be where you want all the tags XD

varethane

Webtoon's algorithms are like turning a hose on and off lol

The difference between views and sub growth during periods of being featured vs not is stark(edited)

carcarchu

i've never been featured by webtoons but i've seen series grow from 100 followers to 10k overnight

not an exaggeration

varethane

I put my new comic on webtoon in november 2019, and in 1 month I crawled up to.... maybe 50 subs?(granted I only put up one episode and then paused for a bit)

Then in December I started updating it weekly and got placed in the new and hot section of the app

And bam, 6k subs

It last 2 weeks and then the section updated and all growth stopped, and subs went down by 10 or so over the next week

Krispy §[Ghost Junk Sickness]§

(Omg featured is like the new Daily Deviation goals from DA way back in the day!)

varethane

Until it got another feature on a different part of the website and went up another 2k. It was like playing with the handle on a faucet lol

dako

I got some pretty good growth during canvas week, but beyond that not really

I get 1-2 subs after an update if I'm lucky

varethane

I feel like their algorithms are very reliant on the regular rotation of features that staff have to do manuallt

Outside of that, discoverability is quite weak

Mostly because of the volume of comics on there

boogeymadam

same boat as vare. the only thing i know about webtoons features is they have stated a couple times one of their recquirements is consistant updating, so if u skip a week that disqualifies u for a lil while i imagine

varethane

I wonder what they count as consistent. I was doing every 2 weeks for awhile, but this month I'm gonna try weekly to see if it helps me earn more $$ from ads :U

dako

I wish there was more incentive for readers to check out the new section on webtoons and tapas

carcarchu

i have found some amazing gems in the new section

i swear i've seen stuff in featured that were not at all updated consistently

dako

I have too, there's a ton of good comics that get overlooked because they're not in the front page

some featured comics havent updated in months sometimes

varethane

I definitely would not have considered myself consistent at the time of the first feature, considering there was a gap of a month between episode 1 and 2 lpl

carcarchu

the consistently updating thing is more of a recommendation than a requirement i feel?(edited)

boogeymadam

ooohh good to know!!

varethane

I'm sure it cant be a hard rule, especially for comics that have just launched

boogeymadam

im just going off their canvas qna's from last year

dako

if it's actually a hard rule for staff to feature comics that regularly update they break that rule a lot

i also heard a bot picks up comics too

carcarchu

well i at least think the staff or bots or whatever at webtoons are doing a better job with features than tapas is

tapas is always pushing their premium comics way more than their indie stuff

boogeymadam

tapas needs to bring new comics onto the frontpage more often than it does, yeah

dako

yeah I agree

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I mean, I get why they put premium on the front page. But I feel more variety would help them because it's more interesting for the readers?

dako

I can't tell whats premium or not with tapas sometimes

boogeymadam

i do like that they've been asking stuff like this in the forums tho

carcarchu

more distinction would be helpful to me too dako

i don't think its as clear as it could be

dako

yeah, webtoons at least it's clear what is and what isnt featured or canvas

Jib {WIP haha}

Huh, anyone remember that really popular writing podcast? I forgot the name

Or have any recommendations I guess

Moral_Gutpunch

Terrible writing advice? It's sarcastic

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

is this related to the topic?

Moral_Gutpunch

It's a podcast about writing, so I'm going to say yes.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think snuffysam meant the weekly topic for the channel

Moral_Gutpunch

Oh

Just for this channel, no. I'm too new to know that.

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Please check #rules

Moral_Gutpunch

Sound more like someone forgot context than the rules

That's why I'm hardly here. I don't know stuff people who've been here for a long time know like podcasts or older comics(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Basically each of the channels under "CTP Activities" on this server has its own topic of the week.

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

It's not a matter of being here for a long time or not. This channel is used solely for discussing the weekly topics, and such information can be found in #rules

Moral_Gutpunch

Kudos then. I came for creator babble only.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

For general webcomic creation-related advice (either seeking or giving) and such, #shop_talk usually is the place!

creator_babble is for answering the topic of the week

It's not actually for generalized "creator babble" despite the name.

dako

looks like they left

Jib {WIP haha}

Oh my bad, it’s been a while since I read the rules, I brought up the new subject

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Happens!

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

No problem, we were just reminding you all :)

Jib {WIP haha}

Ty for that then haha

dako

I think one unexpected thing for me is that no one tells you how crazy the highs and lows can be

well I guess people do but you really don't know until the highs and lows happen to you if that makes sense

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Oh God, that's so true

Burnout is way more dreadful than I could ever guess prior to experiencing it

Feather J. Fern

One unexpected thing for me was how many people I would meet because of my comic. It surprised me greatly that I found so many cool people through the comic community and made the friends I have made now. Love you all

rajmews

The unexpected thing for me was just how much you have to just...predict...what the market will want to read. Like even if you research a whole lot, and you draw really well, and have been doing art professionally, you can still strike out. It's a humbling experience, but being able to just let go of poorly received pages and move on and try things differently is a lot of the battle for doing a webcomic. It teaches you how to fail gracefully because...it's all a process of learning your readers better. Even if they're few at first.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

My major unexpected thing was how much my initial ideas change as I work through a page. Everything from the expressions, dialogue, and layout can change as I look at it and 'solve' it more closely than I did in thumbnails. There are pages I look back on and realize they are ENTIRELY different than what I had first sketched. And they're better for it. Allowing myself the freedom to edit during the artwork... it's created some majorly awesome opportunities.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yes!!!!! Me too!!!

It's exciting thoufh

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Absolutely same

Could plan something out meticulously but then change it in the last 2 secs before uploading

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yup... I don't thumbnail much ahead of where I'm at cause of this(edited)

I thumbnail a scene at a time, and then usually I end up changing stuff halfway through ahahfjjdkskdkss

varethane

Same hat, haha. I often make changes at every stage-- even the thumbnails will often depart from the script. If anything, I wish I made even more changes-- I feel like my page layouts tend to be pretty standard, I do a lot of pages with the 3 rows of 2 panels each, and I want to break out of that more. But... well, that's a work in progress.

[chelsorz07]

i’ve probably done these before but hey it’s 2017 now so fuck it

01: Do you have a good relationship with your parents? My dad and I get along fine. Mom not so much but I’m working on it. If you call ignoring the damage she’s done to my self-worth and how horrible I’ve treated everyone in my family and still barely speaking “working”.

02: Who did you last say “I love you” to? My Marshmallow kitty.

03: Do you regret anything? Not going to college.

04: Are you insecure? I have my bow down to the Queen Bitch™ days and my I’m a complete piece of shit please validate me days. Just depends.

05: What is your relationship status? Married.

06: How do you want to die? I’d prefer it to be quick. I figure I suffer enough in life, why have to endure it in death as well? Like I’m not afraid to die but I’m afraid to be aware that I’m dying.

07: What did you last eat? General Tso’s chicken.

08: Played any sports? Volleyball, cheerleading, softball, basketball (briefly), and bowling.

09: Do you bite your nails? I have a great many bad habits, but thankfully that’s not one of them.

10: When was your last physical fight? Never been in one.

11: Do you like someone? My husband and about 450 fictional characters and/or the actors who represent them.

12: Have you ever stayed up 48 hours? Often. I’ve had insomnia for almost 15 years.

13: Do you hate anyone at the moment? Um...the writers of Shameless for making Ian ditch Mickey at the border.

14: Do you miss someone? Yeah, I never imagined my marriage would be a long distance relationship. Oilfield wife probs. Plus I live four hours away from my family and friends and I have no one here except the people I work with and my cats so it gets pretty friggin’ lonely.

15: Have any pets? Four cats. Millie, Marshall, Selina, and Thomas.

16: How exactly are you feeling at the moment? Torn between annoying my neighbor with my excessively loud singing and taking a napsauce.

17: Ever made out in the bathroom? You know, I don’t think so.

18: Are you scared of spiders? Nope. But I’m terrified of bees.

19: Would you go back in time if you were given the chance? If only to go to school when I got accepted.

20: Where was the last place you snogged someone? Idk probably in my living room. I haven’t seen my husband in two and a half weeks.

21: What are your plans for this weekend? Well I just got home from work about an hour ago, and I think I’m gonna spend the rest of the night listening to music. Then Walking Dead tomorrow. I also have Monday and Tuesday off so hopefully I can muster up some energy to do laundry and clean my house.

22: Do you want to have kids? How many? That’s a sore subject right now because we’ve been trying and it’s just not happening, and it seems like everyone around me is getting pregnant. I only really want one but I’d be okay with two.

23: Do you have piercings? How many? I had my ears pierced but let them close because they were uneven. I’m thinking about getting them redone, plus my nose.

24: What is/are/were your best subject(s)? Concert band, percussion ensemble, English, creative writing, and novel exploration.

25: Do you miss anyone from your past? Not really. If they’re not in my present, there’s a reason for it.

26: What are you craving right now? I’m good actually. That chicken hit the spot.

27: Have you ever broken someone’s heart? Yeah. Idk if it’s good or bad that he’s my best friend now.

28: Have you ever been cheated on? Yep.

29: Have you made a boyfriend/girlfriend cry? I’ve been told.

30: What’s irritating you right now? My perpetually itchy skin. And I can feel some heartburn coming on.

31: Does somebody love you? I hope at least a couple people do.

32: What is your favourite color? Dark green, orange, and grey.

33: Do you have trust issues? I used to, but I guess I’m at the point now where it’s like if you’re gonna screw me over, there’s nothing I can do about it so fuck you bye.

34: Who/what was your last dream about? I have no idea. I usually forget them by this late in the day.

35: Who was the last person you cried in front of? Well Dave’s the only person I even see, and definitely one of the only people I allow to see me cry. So probably him. And probably because I was in some sort of physical pain. Since I usually am.

36: Do you give out second chances too easily? I guess I kinda do.

37: Is it easier to forgive or forget? Forgive.

38: Is this year the best year of your life? If we actually move back to our hometown like we’ve been talking about, and I somehow manage to get pregnant before the end of the year, it will be.

39: How old were you when you had your first kiss? Seventeen.

40: Have you ever walked outside completely naked? Nope. The only time I’m ever completely naked is in the shower.

51: Favourite food? Oh god. Chicken tenders, pizza, breakfast bagels, my aunt’s Christmas bread dip, and pretty much any kind of bread/cheese combination. Ooh and Bob Evans mac n cheese. Fuck I love food.

52: Do you believe everything happens for a reason? Not necessarily.

53: What is the last thing you did before you went to bed last night? Cried about how much Mickey Milkovich loves Ian Gallagher, like I’ve done every night for the past month since I started watching Shameless.

54: Is cheating ever okay? No.

55: Are you mean? I mean kinda but most of the time I’m just fucking around with people.

56: How many people have you fist fought? Zero.

57: Do you believe in true love? True love? Idk. If I do, I’m still not sure that everybody only has one.

58: Favorite weather? Overcast but warm.

59: Do you like the snow? FUCKING NO IT IS THE BANE OF MY EXISTENCE.

60: Do you wanna get married? I already am.

61: Is it cute when a boy/girl calls you baby? Annoying AF actually. But Dave just calls me Chelsorz so luckily I don’t have to put up with stupid pet names.

62: What makes you happy? Lots of things. My shows, even though they also make me very sad, my kitties, my man (most of the time), my friends, getting things on sale, music, makeup, when music and makeup are on sale, food, caffeine, cigarettes, happy pills, art, coloring books, pretty trees, seeing my niece and nephew when I haven’t in forever, hugs. I could go on for a while. 

63: Would you change your name? I would if I wasn’t so old. Kinda stuck with it now, hate it as I may.

64: Would it be hard to kiss the last person you kissed? I’m quite looking forward to it, in two and a half more weeks. Have I mentioned that being an oilfield wife sucks?

65: Your best friend of the opposite sex likes you, what do you do? He’s blatantly told me that he’s still in love with me. We’re still best friends though. Nobody else has my back like he does, and he doesn’t deserve to have it as rough as he has because he’s an awesome guy.

66: Do you have a friend of the opposite sex who you can act your complete self around? I’m my complete self around everyone. Life’s too short not to be weird as fuck.

67: Who was the last person of the opposite sex you talked to? Customers at work.

68: Who’s the last person you had a deep conversation with? Probably Michael.

69: Do you believe in soulmates? I do. @amandavanhalen is my soulmate lol

70: Is there anyone you would die for? Several people.

source: @handcrafted-in-germany