#interacting with actors is part of fandom too

[fuckyeahchinesefashion]

first-person perspective tour of love&deepspace exhibition at shanghai bw2024 comic-con part 4

players interact with sylus, rafayel, xavier, zayne

[dollypopup]

The way some of y'all talk about Luke Newton is just. . .I need this fandom to check itself with a swiftness, because the very thinly veiled ableism is ENOUGH. Like it is WILD to see, in the year of our lord 2024, people either actively infantalizing or talking down this grown man.

Calling Luke Newton stupid for behaviors that are just him displaying his Neurodivergence? Ableism. Saying it because it takes him longer to answer a question is ableism. Saying it because he said something 'incorrectly' or not as eloquently on the fly as his neurotypical costars? Ableism.

Saying he's boring because he's quiet or he doesn't talk as much (because he often needs more processing time and/or has anxiety to surmount) is ableism. Knitpicking his social media and how he doesn't interact as much with a fandom that has actively been cruel to him is ableism.

Assuming Luke is out here like some helpless little lamb clinging to Nicola because 'oh, she's his comfort person!' instead of recognizing that they both lean on and like each other? Is ableism. Saying he has a one sided infatuation with her BECAUSE he needs her as said comfort person is ableism. Essentially being all 'awwww, poor wee baby, he has anxiety so thankfully his neurotypical costar is there to pick up the slack!' is. ableism. You cannot in one breath say that Nicola's love language is touch but also that Luke is the only one ever reaching to hold her hand because he needs her to ground him. That's ableism.

They both like each other. They have a very close relationship and they both clearly admire the other and like to be around one another. To frame it as him being some inept toddler and her as his more capable caretaker and 'thank God he has her to give him the save' is ableism! That's ableism, babes!! And in many cases people don't recognize that's what they're taking part in, but that's what it is.

He is a grown man and a hell of an actor. Yes, he's quieter than some of his costars. Yes, he contemplates what he says in his mind before he says it, and it takes him some time to do so. Yes, he doesn't behave the way his neurotypical peers do. He doesn't have to. He won't- because he has a neurodivergent brain. And he shouldn't have to behave as a neurotypical person or an 'acceptable' neurodivergent person to have respect from people who claim to be his fans.

He's been outspoken and unapologetic about being a neurodivergent actor with ADHD and dyslexia and how that can contribute to difficulties in the current media machine. He has discussed his coping mechanisms. He has specifically done so because he knows how difficult it can be to be a neurodivergent person in the limelight, and he uses that spotlight to show other neurodivergent actors they can be successful, too. And people saw this openly neurodivergent man and said some mad out of pocket nonsense about him.

As the tour comes to a close, I just really need people to look back on their beliefs and viewpoints during it and do some reflection, because I am side-eying a LOT of takes that have gone largely uncontested.

[herejusttosufferalong]

I have to get something off my chest - do I think that people should be hateful on SM towards Luke, absolutely not. The man doesn’t deserve any of the crap that I’ve seen come his way over the past two weeks. I do think he’s made some serious errors in judgement that hopefully he’s reflecting on. 

However, I absolutely hate the way certain people are making excuses for him online. He’s a grown man, and he should take responsibility for his actions or inactions. Fan service is a legit part of the job of a successful actor, take the feedback and improve. I’m frustrated with the way woman in particular make excuses for him just because he’s a man. If I hear one more “he’s got adhd…” as an excuse, I’ll scream. He himself has stated on more than one occasion that he didn’t want to be defined by his ADHD. 

I feel like if the situation was reversed and Nicola had a pap walk and stopped interacting with fans the day the premier launched, the same women wouldn’t have as much grace. We would get “oh she thinks she’s too good for the fandom…”

Stop treating men like children. 

"I feel like if the situation was reversed and Nicola had a pap walk and stopped interacting with fans the day the premier launched, the same women wouldn’t have as much grace."

Are there actual people out here who believe this?

Because we need to take a moment to be completely fuckin honest.

If the roles had been reversed and Luke just showed up with friends and Nic showed up with a rumored boyfriend and then she was papped leaving the party with said man, everyone would be congratulating her.

Folks would be clamoring to find out more about her respective partner and hyping her up for it.

They would have never have shit on her and made her feel like she needed a break from the fandom. They wouldn't be going to Luke's comments and taking up for him, while cursing her, as if he were somehow wounded by the "stunt" she pulled.

There are many reasons why Luke got the hate he did. The biggest reason is projection and it's not timing, as some like to claim.

Let's BFFR.

Insecure women projected past/current hurt from personal situations onto Luke, using the pap walk as a way of reaffirming their biases that at the end of the day he is just a typical man who does shitty things.

Nevermind the countless accounts of his actual character from the people who know him the best.

No.

These same crazies are going to let a photo dictate who he is, even though the context of events is still unclear.

From there they spew nothing but hate and vitriol in his SM comment section.

Then they have the fucking nerve to wonder why he isn't posting online more. Why there seems to be some disconnect from the fandom. Why he doesn’t interact even with Nic as much.

Can you imagine having the fuckin audacity?

Every little thing he does or doesn't do is under so much scrutiny and there is nothing really wrong with that. It's the received hate he gets from that scrutiny that is the problem.

There is plenty of things that Luke has done that give me pause but let's not act like the level of outrage would have been the same if the roles were reversed. It would have been next to nonexistent.

P.S. If you are one of the insecure women as mentioned above don't bother coming for me because I don't like you and I don't fucking care.

[problematicbyler]

an incomplete history of byler sexuality discourse

and how widespread fandom purity culture and homophobia created a flourishing nsfw sub-fandom

some may call me chronically online, but i call myself a fandom historian. i've been a member of some fandom or another since i was about thirteen, and i've always been interested in the rise and fall of fandom discourse. though it's annoying in the moment it's happening, i think it's very interesting and telling to look back at the overall arcs and trends.

so, let's talk about the many times the fandom has cancelled people over byler sexuality, and how each level of "hornygate" has contributed to the growth of the proship/byler smut community.

(i use the term proship in its intended definition, which is to say, not "problematic shipping," but rather being pro-fiction, anti-censorship, and anti-harassment; it is a position of believing the fiction one creates or consumes doesn't reflect a person's real life beliefs or morals.)

i have been a stranger things lover since season 1, a byler shipper since season 2, and an active part of the byler community on tumblr since season 4. i'll mostly be focusing on post-season 4 discourse because that's what i've really been most present for and that was the period that really marked a turning point in the fandom.

seasons 1-3

i wasn't as plugged into fandom discourse back in the day, but the broad strokes of early discourse was mostly thinly veiled homophobia. claiming that it was sexualization to assume will or mike could be queer despite blatant queer coding, implying that analysts were no better than will's bullies to assume his sexuality, etc etc. people were criticized for shipping byler at all because they were so young (but these people naturally had no issue with mileven, so, again, homophobia).

season 4 (may-july 2022)

now, season 4. this is where byler was brought to the attention of a lot more fans, and stranger things' viewership reached wider than ever. the byler fandom on tumblr booms from 4k to 100k over the course of season 4's release.

this brought a lot of new people who have never been in fandoms before, people who never learned don't like don't read or your kink is not my kink and that's okay or ship and let ship.

or, a lot of times, people who had only been in fandoms for celebrities and bands, which tend to have different rules when it comes to shipping and sex, because they're real people. hence a lot of young antis' conflation of character with their actors, but that's a different rant.

so with a rapidly growing fandom, a show ripe for analysis, and the art of media literacy bleeding out on the ground in front of us, the hellscape of the fandom post-season 4 in 2022 followed as such:

august 2022

jo/kendra gate where two extremely popular analysts were called out for "sexualizing" byler while being adults (early to mid 20s). they were dogpiled and harassed because one of them said that will was giving mike "bedroom eyes" (he was) and one of them said mike was checking will out (he was):

pyshiie and moogate. the proship side of byler twitter rose up and started to divide itself. i'll credit my own joining-the-dark-side to pyshiie and moo, formerly barbjeanisms, who were two popular artists called out respectively for sexualizing byler and generally being proship. similarly, people were called out and criticized for even following or interacting with those accounts after this discourse.

september 2022

hosegate is the most famous across the byler fandom, and it's when some users proposed that the scene in the pizzeria uses phallic imagery to imply mike turns will on (or vice versa) and a lot of people thought that was too sexualized, it caused a divide, and more fanpolicing, etc.

october 2022

the artist noodlesandtea was harassed for having liked arguably nsfw bakudeku art (they were shirtless, it wasn't explicit) on the same account where they draw characters who are minors. they also drew byler kissing, which was a problem for some? anyone who defended them was also called a pedo, naturally. noodles also got called out for having drawn fanart of the popular e-rated fanfiction....

the unmarked mixtape. a massively popular sequel to a massively popular fic, the red envelope. for a long time, those were the most widely recommended byler fics, but it very soon became taboo to even admit to reading them because the sequel has explicit sex and the first has them making out.

sonnet116 gate is another fic that was beloved and then rapidly turned on by byler twitter because it had implied, fade to black sex scenes. it was about them hooking up but had no smut. and even the non explicit idea of that was offensive and pedophilic of anyone who dared read it. around this time, another fic was called out for having will moaning into a kiss, because writing a teenager moaning was also offensive and pedophilic.

i'm told i (jana / troublebyler gate?) may have influenced a lot of people joining twitter for byler smut after writing illicit affairs and some other smutty oneshots in rapid succession, seeing a lot of byler shippers moving to the proship side of the fandom just to discuss and write byler smut. i also hosted a little fandom gossip column on my curiouscat where a lot of folks confessed to reading or writing smut while pretending to be "normal" in the "main" fandom. it basically revealed/implied that a large amount of popular authors, artists, and accounts were secretly pro byler smut, and that many proshippers were "undercover" in the "main" fandom.

the blocklist era. around this time the "main" fandom also created a "st twt safety" account on twitter which was basically targeted harassment and mass reporting of proshippers. the account does warn of some genuine bad actors sending gore images via dms, being racist, etc. but by far, the majority of it was simply calling out proshippers for sexualizing byler, sharing screenshots they thought were "gross," which only resulted in spreading nsfw content to unintended audiences of minors that likely never would have seen the nsfw accounts otherwise.

november 2022

practice kissing gate is where a handful of popular fic writers were criticized for writing practice kissing fics (such as undertow), and in fact, any amount of byler making out, because adults "fantasizing" about teenagers kissing was "gross."

the proship corner of st twitter continued to grow a lot thanks to so many lovely fan creators, all of whom i couldn't possibly list but who have done a lot for the community! but we continued to get bombarded with endless callout posts and block lists and witch hunting. people were unabashedly policing people's following lists and likes on twitter to call people out for engaging with any questionable users or content. (if you search byler twitter now you can still see the wreckage of so many witch hunts.)

onward through 2023

over time things have mostly calmed down, or at least enough of the folks on "opposing sides" of the fandom have mutually blocked each other to survive. this is likely also influenced by the hiatus leaving the fandom to quiet down, the collapse of twitter-turned-x having many users migrate their fandom content elsewhere, and the mass exodus of many people from the fandom for political reasons. if i had to guess, the ramp-up to season 5 will see all new conflict as more "casual" fans return to the fandom. but who's to say.

which brings us to now:

spicybylerpolls gate, wherein the byler tag on tumblr collectively had to reckon with the fact that people want byler to have sex and it doesn't make them creeps to vote in silly polls about it. people criticized the blog for being overly sexualized and pure fantasy versus more "acceptable" analysis, with many making sweeping moralizing statements about anyone who dared interact with the blog.

this has kicked off tumblr's own sort of horny revolution in encouraging folks to be more open on here, whereas previously we were confined to our corner of twitter.

so in summary:

people over and over again put fan creators on a pedestal just to turn on them when they're "betrayed" when a person's views did not one-to-one line up to theirs.

teens in the fandom especially were "betrayed" by adults in the fandom they thought were "safe" (and i would argue that self proclaimed "safe" adults in fandom are far more dangerous to real life minors than the proship fans who sexualize fictional characters but dont interact with real teens)

most everything has been fueled by widespread ageism at any fan over the age of 18, widespread homophobia and puritanism in regards to exploring queer sexuality or discussing sex at all

so much hate has been over what are essentially "thought crimes", with people watering down serious accusations like pedophilia into a petty insult over disagreements on fiction

and the cycle repeats itself endlessly until things devolve back into witch hunting and policing peoples following and likes etc

the best part to me is that every single cancellation just resulted in more people flooding to the horny side of the fandom to post more freely and without shame. every time a person on twitter posted screenshots of my account to say how "gross" it was (while simultaneously exposing my 18+ nsfw content to their audience of minors) i had a surge in followers. the more the fandom squeezes, the more people slip from its hold.

but that doesn't make the harassment campaigns okay, and it doesn't mean the fandom didn't do massive amounts of harm to real people in an attempt to protect fictional characters.

my hope going forward is that the fandom can coexist as a community where people don't have to like or agree with certain content to treat the people who create it with respect and dignity. and i hope that, while this side of the fandom might grow more on tumblr, we don't have to relive the same old discourses and go through the same cycles we went through on twitter.

and remember kids, the block button is both free and fun.

[nqueso-emergency]

I saw that Gavin is doing a convention appearance soon and I’m quite sure that Kenny and Aisha have appearances lined up too. All would be paid thousands (in the tens or hundreds of thousands for the mains) for those appearances.

Which, going by the buddie textbook, is wrong cause they are profiting off their roles, taking advantage of fans by asking them to pay for interactions and using Disney IP for it.

Now I don’t agree with any of that. I think conventions are totally fine but they are absolutely the same kind of thing as a cameo, which is also fine and normal for smaller celebs. They’re all part of what actors can choose to do to maximize the momentary impact of their jobs. They have the same purpose and are transactional. They create interactions for fans, give chances for actors to talk about their roles and are managed interactions. Plus a convention appearance is way more money than you’d get from maybe 100 cameos.

But it sure is interesting to see another case of buddie shippers being selective about what they choose to hate people over. I wonder why.

And to state, in no way do I think attending a convention means you should be hated on and I don’t want to see anyone in the fandom doing that to the actors. But I also don’t think doing cameos means you should be hated on either.

I'm actually super shocked they make such a big deal about the cameos when we know over half of these people came from Supernatural. A show that did conventions CONSTANTLY.

If Oliver or Ryan went, people would pay to go see them. That's a fact. And, I agree, there's nothing wrong with either of them

[readypanda]

Indigo Park Spoilers (and very long post) ahead

Since Indigo Park is the newest fandom I've been dipping into, I figured I might as well make my own analysis for the game. The question I'll be discussing today is,

WHAT EVEN ARE THESE THINGS?

(sry for bad picture quality lol)

The thing I find interesting about these mascots (Molly, Lloyd, and what we've seen of Finley) that kind of sets them apart from other monsters in the mascot horror genre is...they almost seem like they're just animals. (I'll go over evidence for this in this post)

Think about it. In other mascot horror games, we've gotten:

animatronics possessed by dead children

employees/kids surgically(?) turned into toys

people mutated by a giant ink machine

animals/people who have had their DNA spliced with a mutagenic chemical

A little girl somehow turned into a monster (I think??)(really sorry Amanda I don't know what you are)

etc.

(I'm not up to date on all these properties and I know there's many more, so forgive me if my lore understanding is less than adequate. you know how it is with indie horror)

The important note about all these is that for the most part, these mascots are intelligent, or at least have the capability of intelligence. Almost everything on this list was at one point human, in fact.

So why do I think Indigo Park is any different? What leads me to believe they aren't intelligent? (at least, the animal versions of the characters that we run from in the game. Whether they are separate from the versions of the characters Rambley interacts with is something I'll touch on later)

I think the most obvious piece of evidence in regards to Molly and Lloyd (again, not much info on Finley yet) is how Lloyd acts. He doesn't talk at all, he just stalks the main character and attacks like an animal might (with the exception of a couple times he stands on two legs or props himself up here and there).

As for Molly, I hear you saying, "But she talks! We hear her speak!" And yes, dear reader, you are right. Molly does speak. This would disprove my argument of the mascots being purely animalistic, if it weren't for this kill screen.

Now, do we ever actually hear Molly say something that isn't a repetition or couldn't reasonably be a repetition? Has she said anything to prove her intelligence at all? (genuine question here because I haven't examined every one of her voice lines lol. If I'm wrong about this then whoopsie!)

Despite the past 250 words of speculation, though, whether they act just like animals isn't actually that important. We'll see more of them in later chapters anyway (or Lloyd and Finley at least) so that will likely prove or disprove this point with time.

The more interesting question is, what are they? Like, physically?

When Molly dies, we clearly see blood around her decapitated head. At the very least that rules out animatronics or something mechanical. In addition, in the audio of the hidden tape you get when you show Rambley one of the collectables, you can hear two staff members complaining about being replaced by "new mascots" right after they "got a new raccoon costume." This could mean a few different things, but it seems to imply that the mascots we see in this chapter are meant to be replacements for actors in suits (for meet and greets, promotion, shows, etc) and/or replacements for limited, expensive, and cumbersome animatronics. If this is true, we can also probably rule out them being human. Unless Indigo Park also had a secret human experimentation lab, which I wouldn't put past them.

I think it's too early to definitively state what these mascots are, but based on the evidence of above, I have a theory.

My personal theory is that these mascots are just animals who have been changed or mutated in some way to allow the park to have more "realistic" representations of the characters (also probably to cut down on the costs of paying a human employee). That would explain why they act the way they do and why they are so violent. They literally are just wild animals who have been warped to represent these cartoon characters.

Another important caveat to this theory is that, if this is true, then the mascots who attack us in the game are most likely NOT Rambley's "friends" as he knows them. That would explain why he doesn't call attention to Molly chasing us or Molly's dead body (with the exception of one very small reaction when he talks about the mascots). You would expect him to seem a little more upset if he thought that was his friend, but maybe on some level he knows it's not really her, just a representation of her.

That brings up another question, which is a can of worms I won't fully open here: Do Molly, Lloyd, and Finley have sentient "AI" equivalents like Rambley? If not, does Rambley know his friends aren't real? I'll let you decide.

Anyway, that just about closes my thoughts on this silly raccoon game. Thanks for letting me ramble on about it, and thanks for making it to the end of the post!

Lemme know about your own theories in regards to what these things are, or if there's any key evidence I missed. Kinda threw this together lol. Most of it will likely get disproven by future chapters but hey, thus is the price of theorizing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[lady-phasma]

HotD fandom thoughts

I debated posting this because it may sound sappy, but I do occasionally step back and post my thoughts about how we interact with each other. This can certainly apply to any fandom. However, it is specifically about the past 24 hours in the HotD fandom.

Yesterday's trailer was amazing. Whether you love/hate any characters specifically, whether you were disappointed by possible omissions, or you love all of the characters and just have fun with this dragon soap opera, they gave us so many hours of discussion and theories. That was surely their intention. What struck me the most (what I am too much of a realist to believe will continue to happen as the season air) was the community and excitement.

I'm not naïve - I know that there were some people who inevitably posted hurtful or hateful words yesterday. But for the most part, there was a general feeling of "this is why we are here." I try to bring that to my blog with every single post. Not because it's manufactured behavior or because I want to present a certain image, but because this is what fandom needs to be. We all love this series even when we hate it. Hate is the opposite side of the same coin: one cannot feel hate/frustration unless they are passionate about the object, the exact same passion that is required to love something.

What I have seen in the last 24 hours has been encouraging. When the negativity inevitably comes with the second season (in 32 days!!), remember to treat others how you want to be treated. And don't add the exception "unless they are hurtful first and then it's fine to return the unkindness." Just treat them how you want to be treated. This includes unfollowing, blocking, blocking tags, but it also means connecting with new blogs who are also kind, respectful, and fun. Expand your circle - there are so many of us!

That went a little longer than I expected but I wanted to say it because you all moved me. Don't forget (especially those in this fandom that feel strongly about one or the other "team") that the actors would want us to get joy from their work. If they can support and care about each other, so can we.

[lover-of-mine]

“Let me say this again: I used to love every character in '9-1-1', but the B*ddie fans who spam and harass everywhere, even on official channels, make me want to vomit. Their toxicity is making me start to hate the actors. This show is for everyone, not just them. If they're unhappy, they should stop watching and use their creativity for fanfics outside official channels”

i just want you to focus on the “their toxicity is making me start to hate the actors [Oliver Stark and Ryan Guzman]”

this is like the spies said: they already hated ryan but they’re starting to hate ostark too

That's a very bold statement. If you even hate 1/4 of the main cast of a show, why you watching it? The way people are so quick to turn on the actors is such absolute complete bullshit. I will go on for hours on why I don't like T, but the only thing you're gonna catch me saying about Lou is that he's out of touch. The actors are not the characters and they have nothing to do with our little ship war. For me this is about the characters. It's nice when they talk about us, or interact with us, ngl, I get a hush from it too. But they built a ship based on flimsy chemistry and paid actor interaction and now they only have one. You take Oliver and Ryan's interaction from buddie, we still have a solid relationship. What do they have without Lou? They brought it to official channels when they started to try to manipulate canon while forcing actor interaction and they got so used to paying to get someone to say they're on their side, they don't know what to do now that they have to face what the show is actually doing. Somehow when it's them flooding unrelated comment sections with duplicate accounts and coordinated efforts when they can't even decide on a ship name, it's great, it's fine, it's beautiful, it's a show of support. But when we get excited about new content from the show and the possibilities it brings, we're awful and don't know how to exist in communal spaces. Buck and Eddie's relationship is a core part of the show. Platonic, romantic, familial. However the fuck you see it, it's undeniably there. It's a part of the show and it's gonna be talked about forever because most of us did not get brainwashed by the sight of two men kissing. But they want to turn on actors, who are just doing their job and aren't even interacting with anyone, because the fans of their characters are annoying? For fucks sake, you're responsible for your own fandom experience.

[pensbridge]

A lil rant about cast shipping

OH. MY. GOD.

The commentary about actor personal relationships has actually made me scared to come on here. When any related hashtags trend, I'm like "WHY?"

This happens in every fandom, but I honestly give props to the Bridgerton actors for keeping composure and not leading with resentment towards the life changing dream that feeds them or the stupid quote-unquote fans that need to focus on the show, because I could never! Also, that 99% of their actors successfully remain private, which I completely understand why when people act the way they do.

And why they try to protect some of their private lives..maybe clearly exhibited in the fact that some of you did this the last time! -that people were so intrusive, (coming from someone who's not even that in the know and very out of the loop until large amounts of attention are brought to it) that his last gf seemed visibly overwhelmed by some of the total lack of boundaries. And that the threats over "rejecting" a fictional character & "he should be w/her" apparently went too far that Nicola had to willingly step in. And if you think, "it's harmless, I of course would never do that"... these parasocial relationships foster a following to people that will absolutely do that and join your hive mentality.

But, seriously..thinking that anything was done wrong here by the cast...Let me break down these arguments, because I've actually been biting my tongue on this:

"Finding out he had a gf ruined the show for me because of the premiere." I think it's time for therapy, and learning to separate fiction from reality.

Perhaps this is where some of the pre-conceived notions & outrage for the show came from (idk).

"If he would have waited, it would have been better and we could accept it." You liar! NEXT.

"But he lied. I feel cheated. They both led us on to believe what they wanted us to." This is laughable. They told 98 billion times that they were friends, they flat out said they weren't dating before Part 1 even hit the screens, and you were like "they're lying! hehehe. They don't know themselves.." including interviewers in the final stretch, which is so so pathetic of them

People were flat out telling you that they weren't dating & about personal relationships (fyi I think Nicola has had a long-term bf as well; so sad 4 u~honestly not positive on this but i think), and fans were very much NOT discreet about these significant others on every platform.

"I hate that it's PR." Again, I don't think they lied to you about being friends. I don't even think they played up aspects of their relationship. There's a great read somewhere on why they fall back on handholding and being affectionate. I honestly feel sorry for some of you that there's such a harsh line between what's platonic and what's romantic/that every affectionate interaction for you=romantic love and 'we should date.' If you're stupid and see what you want, that's on you.

If you're one of these people, know that I hate you. The press reaction is honestly the worst part of every single one of these shows.

The entitlement of this fandom knows no bounds (thank God some of you are sane).

[crimsoncold]

AEMONDSA: A crack ship with unexpected depth and appeal

A treatise (in four parts) on the intriguing parallels and complementary contrasting of Aemond and Sansa and the subsequent allure of them as a romantic pairing in Fanfic

- from the perspective of a sansa-stan, jonsa + sansa-centric multishipper, and someone who is generally Targ critical

Now while my general stance of "ship and let ship/don't worry so much about what other people in fandom focus on or ship/etc" still stands i wanted to do a little write up on what I've found so appealing about this particular crack ship.

Not to justify it (again fandom and shipping in general is just about enjoying/thinking about fictional characters and scenarios... no one needs to justify why their imagination likes to think about two characters interacting romantically) but because there isn't a ton of metas addressing the interesting parallels between these characters and the appeal of them as a ship so I wanted to make one so the handful of people who do ship it get to see some more positive engagement/responses to this pairing.

I just unexpectedly ended up loving this pairing so much and I always have a particularly strong urge to contribute to fandom content on the rare pairs/crack ships that I like....So here have a deep dive into the parallels, and contrasting but complimentary aspects of Aemond and Sansa, and the unexpected appeal of Aemond x Sansa as a pairing in fanfiction...

PART 1: MY EXPERIENCE WITH ASOIAF/GOT & HOTD FANDOM AND WHY AEMONDSA IS A PLEASANT SURPRISE

So I'm going to be drawing from both book and show elements when I consider and compare Sansa and Aemond's characterization and plot arcs (particularly since this tends to be how they are handled in fanfic- which all have differing combinations of book or show canon for both characters)

(this is a HOTD S2-free zone though... HOTD's writing has certainly not improved and it's inconsistencies even compared to their past writing and characterization of many characters including Aemond has made such an absolute mess so for this post I'm ignoring the worst part of HBO's attempt at making hotd fanfiction i.e. S2- and I am basing my understanding of Aemond on a combination of what can be gleaned from book canon and s1 because that was what initially interested me AND because that is what the aemondsa fanfic I've read has also been based on)

Now Just to set the scene for my journey as a stark fan, jonsa shipper, and generally targ critical person to become an appreciator of aemondsa...

GOT had a steep decline in quality in the later seasons and HOTD despite the incredible effort of the actors/sfx people was not particularly good to start with in terms of writing/storytelling...yet disappointing or poorly written shows are not without their appeal for participating in fandom and reading/writing related fanfiction, particularly when there is a handful of interesting characters-looking at you stark kids who suffered through the writing of GOT's later seasons and HOTD's team green-that fans want to rescue from the terrible writing/butchering by the showrunners and to explore alternative stories/endings for them... sometimes it is even one of the most appealing sort of set up for fandom/fanfiction to take over and fix things.

I was already a huge Sansa fan, and she was the original draw for me towards asoiaf/got fandom and fanfiction, and while jonsa has been and remains my favorite pairing for her I've always been open to dabbling in various other sansa pairings/crack ships.

(While the parallels don't take the exact form as the ones between Sansa and Jon- and obviously aemondsa isn't accompanied with the incredible foreshadowing and potential that jonsa is- this pairing still feels similarly compelling due to the sheer amount of parallels between the two characters and for the fact that its a ship that is appealing and seems quite fitting without fanfic writers having to stray too far from canon personalities/back stories to make them work as a romantic pairing- beyond you know the obvious aspect of them being alive at the same time)

When HOTD first came out and before i discovered Ameondsa was a thing I was staying away from HOTD fanfic for the most part despite my interest in a few of the characters

HOTD's most predominant focus in both it's fandom and fanfiction seemed to be Rhaenyra/Team black/ Daemyra centric- all of which I was at just personally not drawn. Aemond (hot dramatic anime antagonist transported into hbo's HOTD and personal favorite of mine) centric fics unfortunately tended towards shipping him with various TB characters or TB OCs but both as a concept and due to the handling/set up these fics were generally not appealing to me (more on this later).

Furthermore hotd fandom itself seemed to be shaping up into a new edition of targ stan centric fandom- specifically a new "team black only" brand of stanning... which is definitely not something I am interested in.

Being someone admittedly anti targ/targ critical in general who just happened to be more intrigued (and sympathetic) to the greens in HOTD it did seem that the bulk of hotd fandom was probably going to a similar if even more extreme form of what I encountered with targ-stan segments of the GOT fandom as a sansa-stan/jonsa shipper (ie. Less posts/fanfic that i would personally agree with or be interested in from these fans and potentially hostile and unpleasant responses or takes from the majority of these fans)

As a result of my general avoidance of hotd (i.e. the very pro targ/pro TB fanfiction that hotd fandom offered) Aemondsa, already an extremely rare pair and crack ship, wasn't even a pairing on my radar until one of the authors i was subscribed to started a hotd time travel fix it aemondsa fic...I have an appreciation for well written crack ships, and I am willing to give most pairings or fandoms a chance when I'm already a fan of either the story's main characters or of the author specifically ...but I was actually incredibly suprised how compeling Aemondsa was as a pairing in this story..as well as how much I enjoyed the other Aemondsa fics that I checked out afterwards..it seemed this was a niche segment of hotd fandom that i was going to absolutely obsessing over.

There was a lot of depth to them for a crack ship, which was achievable without altering their personalities and backstories very much from canon (dont get me wrong I love crack ships even ones where people and the plot are altered significantly to make a ship feel possible but there is something uniquely compelling when characters fit together without having to be too ooc) so I just wanted to write a bit about what is so fascinating about this ship since it's such a new rare pair that hasn't accumulated a massive audience or a ton of discussions or write ups yet.

PART 2/4. THE SURPRISING AMOUNT OF PARALLELS BETWEEN SANSA AND AEMOND (FANDOM, PLOT-WISE, but most of all regarding FAMILY)

(Uh ....Brace yourself? this section ended up way longer than expected)

For me the initial appeal comes down to intriguing Character parallels between Sansa and Aemond which fanfic at least offers the opportunity to explore in a story format ....

On a surface level they are (in the shows particularly) both intelligent and underdog figures with fantastic little sassy moments - true queens of dealing out backhanded and cutting compliments, or being unapolegetic critical towards some of the flawed and extremely privileged individual's they encounter who are used to receiving only coddling and fawning worship.

Both characters seem to get shit treatment, sometimes from the fandom other times due to the terrible choices/handling by the writers/showrunners.

Both were characters I personally found interesting and sympathetic despite how fandom- some of it for aemond and a significant amount of it for sansa- had deemed these essentially young and still innocent characters worthy of being reviled and harmed for the ways the adults in their lives had set them up for failure or abuse. Forever dismayed by the way they (unlike certain fan favorites) were somehow never deemed by fandom as deserving of sympathy for the horrible things that happened to them, and how notably they never recieve the same feverent forgiveness/understanding/support for their more dangerous or dark actions the way other characters did

Looking at the difference in fan responses to show!Arya or Dany compared to Sansa- though when it comes to the sheer amount of violence, destruction, and murder or the act of threatening their kin obviously despite what Sansa-antis say Sansa is the only one who should not even be part of the discussion, and how Dany or Arya always recieves excuses, sympathy, forgiveness, or outright praise from the core audience for their more questionable actions while somehow Sansa is deemed as the unforgivable, dangerous, evil, traitorous, and foolishly reckless character

How Aemond (and all of TG really) are set up and considered by TB stans to be unworthy of their house/rightful inheritance and the ones most at fault for the onset and destruction caused by a civil war... never victims mistreated or endangered by the more privileged and powerful members of their family... just the people who only ever deserved what was inflicted on them by TB for the crime of being forced to wed a disgusting and neglectful King or for being threats to Rhaenyra's family or throne simply by existing? How the morally questionable or violent actions of Rhaenyra, her sons, or more particularly her uncle-husband will always be seen as either justifiable, in the right, excusable, or literally worthy of praise the way Aemond's and his family's actions will never be viewed by this core audience

I think about how much like segments of asoiaf fandom bash Sansa by deeming her too southern/too Tully/Too Catelyn-like to be a real Stark (unlike her "truly northern" siblings) their are also segments of hotd fandom that have chosen to see Aemond and his full siblings as only Hightowers who are wrongfully stealing from TB/the "true Targaryens"

But there were even more striking parallels when it came to their characterization and plot.

Both younger (non heir) children, presented as being intelligent, incredibley dutiful and studious, with a very close relationship to their mother, in a sort of intense people pleaser manner - trying their best to excel at all the skills/duties that their parents/society deems necessary for their position and sex because that is the way they receive acceptance, attention, or praise from their family/the adults in their life

Aemond and his studies, his apparently dedication and success in training with the sword despite his own disability, his determination and recklessness to finally become a dragon rider like the rest of his Targaryen family- as it is what is expected and what he has long been mocked over by some of his targ kin, how despite his own ambitions and the way he thought himself particularly suitable for rulership he remained the dutiful and loyal younger brother who served as regent for his gravely injured older brother but did not attempt to stylize himself as King and steal Aegon's throne.

the way that Alicent seems to be the only family member he allows himself to be vulnerable with, the one with whom he turns to for consolation and comfort, Alicent being absolutely devastated and incensed over the loss of Aemond's eye and the lack of punishment for the assault on his person, the only one to demand recompense, the only one to raise a knife to the blacks when she is denied, how Aemond is the one person who tries to console his mother in the aftermath, how despite having just lost an eye he is the one who actually tries to sooth his mother to bring a stop to the increasing and dangerous level of tension and conflict that had erupted between the blacks and greens at driftmark, Aemond's own longstanding protectiveness of and devotion to his family- most especially his mother- that lasts until his own demise.

Sansa and the way she thrives and enjoys the type of world and training that is more of a noble woman's or specifically her mother Catelyn's domain- unlike her wilder other siblings she is generally a steadfastly proper and gentle girl- no doubt a comfort to her mother not just because she is generally so well behaved but in the fact that unlike her siblings she is not shown to be obviously or very publically close with Ned's illegitimate child- who for Catelyn would be the literal personification of Ned's infidelity, the disrespect and humiliation he puts her through by raising him in their house along side their children, and her deep seated fear that he loved and will prioritize another woman and her child more than his own wife and family.

Sansa is the child who seemed to love all things "southern" the most (though undeniably despite how Sansa is looked down upon for her love of romantic stories and song her other siblings also certainly enjoy legends and tales of Knighthood or Southern Princes and warrior Princesses) and to be fascinated by the environment her mother is from, the one who is drawn to and practice her mother's faith in addition to keeping to the old gods,

How Catelyn though she truly grieves letting her daughter go seems to accept it not just because her belief that Sansa would excel as a princess and future queen but because she thinks Sansa would thrive simply through getting to experience the south...Catelyn seems to grasp the things Sansa dreams about and unlike many other family members she does not view Sansa and her interests with the same condescension, dismissal, or disdain.

Catelyn loves all her children immensely but there is something so tragic and beautiful in her love for her daughters, the desperate lengths she is willing to go to to ensure the saftey of both of them while the lords/males in her family have already given them up as a lost cause and inevitable and necessary casualties in their war for vengeance and northern independence

Despite this affection though there is a lot of pressure on both of them... almost to the point that their treatment by the adults in their lives has a bit of a "parentification" dynamic- a manner that sometimes puts the onus on them to be a support and a comfort to their mother amid any tension in the family/marriage (Aemond) or to be the perfectly behaved role model or minder for their less dutiful siblings (Sansa)

Sansa, in everyone's eyes a lady at three and a queen destined to be, the determined effort she puts into excelling at being studious, accomplished, proper, and ladylike, how much she tries to exemplify the behavior praised and exemplified by her mother and her septa

set up by the adults in her life as a go between for the stark sisters...used as the benchmark for their demands and expectations of Arya, being held up as the bar for perfect, proper, and praise worthy behaviour that Arya is presssured to also attain, the daughter who gets censured on the few occasions she acts out while her younger sister typically gets away with her poor behaviour (at least when it comes to their parents)... Sansa isn't just under the pressure of the exacting expectations for a lord's daughter she also experiences the stress of being put in the position of exemplar for her wild untractable younger sister.

Aemond, apparent dutiful student in many areas expected as a child of nobility, who is expected to support Aegon in his rulership and war and (in the show) even takes responsibility for trying to keep his older brother in line, the one who after losing an eye takes the effort to comfort and console his mother's grief and rage when their father does nothing in response to an attack on Aemond other than threaten and intimate his wife and his children with Alicent in order to support his firstborn daughter, who becomes the human equivalent of not just a wrecking ball but a literal weapon of mass destruction sent out on behalf of the advancement of his family or later to enact terrible bloody vengeance on his family's behalf, his life his purpose and his death is all for his family's sake more than his own.

They put so much effort into being well behaved, to reach the exacting standards for a child in their position, setting an example for the less obedient/well behaved sibling(s) all of which in turn adds to significant strain or conflict between said sibling.

Sansa and Aemond are the sibling expected to and determidly striving to live up to the high expectations that the adults in their life put on them and to survive the extremely dangerous and high stakes scenarios they are put in (as a lord's daughter, prince's betrothed and future queen, a hostage and target for the machinations and ambitions of others, the older sibling, a ruling lady, and elected queen; a prince, dutiful son and brother, ruthless and dutiful defender of his family, and regent)

Meanwhile they have other siblings who struggled to meet said expectations or have given up attempting to all together (Arya, Rhaenyra, or to some degree Aegon)

Siblings who must from the perspective of Sansa and Aemond (who are still young, inexperienced, and have had a great deal of conflict with said siblings) seem to flaunt all expectations free to rebell, flaunt the rules, and generally ignore the high pressure expectations that children from their class face.

Undoubtedly frustrating since, much like their more rebellious siblings have failed to sympathize with the more responsible ones, Ameond and Sansa too have not (yet) been able to recognize the ways their less successful/dutiful siblings also suffer under the highly restrictive expectations of their class and position even if they do not choose or succeed in conforming to them.

They see that despite how they may excel in studying, striving and succeeding in their roles, and ultimatley exemplifying the high standards they were raised to it is these other siblings who seem to get rewarded (experiencing in their eyes at least what appears to be more freedom, less pressure, minimal censure or punishment for their misbehavior... while simultaneously receiving the bulk of the reward in terms of their inheritance, the attention they recieve, or even with regards to the amount of affection given by some of the authority figures in their lives, i.e. their fathers)...

To them it must seem that these siblings get to be not just easily forgiven for their mistakes and misbehaviour, but accepted as or outright adored simply the way they naturally are, whereas dutiful and non problematic children like themselves tend to be overlooked or underappreciated, and quickly criticized on the rare cases they misbehave... the acceptance and affection they recieve appears far more conditional on them behaving well according to the expectations of their family or various instructors/minders... whereas the affection their siblings receive, from say a certain parent, is show to be rather unconditional

Seriously they both give me such severe "easy" (i.e. overlooked) and "gifted" child trauma vibes... how much of their behavior is simply in their nature and how much is what they conform themselves to to make the adults around them proud... because as the quieter child or apparent outsider amindst their family/siblings this is the only action that comes natural to them and gets them some (hard earned) attention/praise in a rather large and loud family they otherwise seem a bit lost in... how much of their striving to succeed is dependent on the sincere belief/understanding that their saftey and potentially the future, saftey, and wellbeing of their family depends on it.

They both have a far more distant relationship with their fathers who favoured another sibling- a sister over them... father's who either didn't seem to know how to connect with them - Ned- or never really bothered to try- Viserys...

while i do believe Ned loves his children and they adored him in return i feel its obvious that he neglected in preparing any of them for the true dangers and realities of the world away from the satey and protection of winterfell and their Stark family, and he absolutely dropped the ball on keeping either of his daughters safe and supervised when he took them along into a very dangerous situation in kingslanding

Furthermore Ned never quite seemed to connected with or pay attention to Sansa they way he did with Arya... just something about the fact that when he follows the orders of his king/supposed best friend to kill Sansa's direwolf (the very symbol of their house) it is in replacement for Arya's Direwolf who was allowed to escape the cruel wrath of the Queen and Prince...and how he continues to fail Sansa in the aftermath

It's something about the gifts he gives his very angry and traumatized daughters to comfort them after- in lieu of truly trying to actually connect with and console both of them or to even properly mediate their increased fighting.

Arya (in the show and book) is given lessons with a "dancing" master who teaches her swordplay/water dancing, she was so excited and she always wanted to be outside learning to fight like her brothers got to, in this moment to her understanding she is not just seen by her father she is accepted and supported (a careful reader may see that Ned's attitude appears to be slightly condescendingly indulgent on the matter of her learning swordplay... but Arya gets the chance to do something she loves all the same)

Meanwhile (in the show) to try to console Sansa Ned gives her... a doll? (Honestly I can't recall any equivalent gift from Ned to Sansa in the books? the mention of her possibly getting harp lessons in Kingslanding was actually a promise Catelyn made to her on Ned's behalf rather than his own effort... and was something that Ned didn't actually ever arrange in the books)

But is this doll meant to be an appropriate gift to make up for the death of her direwolf? Is this gesture enough to comfort her and make amends after Ned killed her direwolf (notice its not exactly as spectacular, meaningful, or comforting a gift as arya's "dancing lessons"... certainly there is no indication that he has any particular understanding of Sansa or has given much thought into her talents, interests, or personality beyond the most shallow perusal)

In the aftermath of Lady's death Ned does nothing to truly protect Sansa or keep her away from the obviously dysfunctional and dangerous family he has promised her away to.

Yet he can take the time to comfort and have a frank conversation with Arya about how important staying together and supporting eachother as family is- especially when they are amongst dangerous people who mean to harm or separate them- and the specific importance her and Sansa will have to one another as sisters who share the same blood... further explaining how just as they will need eachother Ned needs them as well

Ned has no such comforting or distinctly meaningful exchange with Sansa... he doesn't explain the reality of the Lannisters/Joffrey/Robert (i.e. the truth of the people he has agreed to give his young daughter away to despite the fact that he either personally has no respect for most of them or has not been around them long enough to know anything about their true nature)

Yes it is the risk to his daughter that makes him willing to falsely confess to treason, yes eventually he decides its best to send his daughters back to winterfell, yes he finally wants to break the betrothal and he makes a beautiful promises to make her a match with "a high lord who's worthy of [her], someone brave and gentle and strong" ... but he is much too late to get both of his daughters away from the lannisters/kingslanding, way too late in his attempt to keep them safe, and he fails to handle Sansa with age appropriate respect and frankness and to actually tell her how dangerous things are in kingslanding and why joffrey (false prince -bastard born of incest) is such an ill suited match.

Maybe if he had put any effort into explaining things to her...or simply spending time with her, speaking to her, trying to understand her, comforting her amidst the loss of lady and the increased fighting with Arya, or doing literally anything other than just neglecting her and her saftey Sansa would have actually trusted his decision and seen it as him wanting what was best for her.

Maybe if he had been more proactive and focused on his daughters well being he wouldn't have brought both of them south after the altercation over their direwolves... or maybe he could have been successful at getting both his daughters out of kingslanding before everything went to hell.

Its almost like the whole point of the Ned/Arya/Sansa and the Ned/Cersei/Sansa dynamic isn't to show that Sansa is a naive girl who betrays her family for the lannisters but is instead to show that when you neglect your child emotionally they will turn elsewhere for comfort and will be particularly vulnerable to being manipulated or abused by other adults... its almost like this part of A Game of Thrones is more about the way even someone like Ned- a man who does strives to do what he thinks is right and a parent who does loves his children- can still fail.

Ned's treatment of Sansa is specifically intriguing, though i don't know if it will be addressed specifically since her relationship and dynamic with Ned is one that much like Robb ended with his tragic and unjust murder (leaving behind a grief stricken Sansa helplessly longing for the return of her family and home, grieving with a near devotional regard for her lost father and brother)... Sansa will never get to confront or reconcile with them over the many ways she was let down and left unprotected by her male relatives- and who knows if a traumatized and grieving Sansa will ever even recognize and admitt to herself the ways the people who she loved the most failed to live up to her expectations of them... how clearly that despite their love for her she was rarely their first priority ... how they both seemed to fail to follow their family mottos ... the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.... family before duty or honor... she was family yet duty and honor came before her in Robb's eyes... she was part of a pack but through Ned promising her to a marriage in the south, in him taking her and Arya away to kingslanding, in him failing to prioritize her saftey until they all were practically already on the chopping block, and in Robb abandoning any hope or plan of rescuing her she truly was abandoned by them ...to be a lone wolf without a pack to help her survive

Then there is Viserys who at the very least had a much stronger regard for Rhaenyra than all the kids by his second wife ...but can also quiet easily be accused of outright neglecting and mistreating them

The lack of guidance holds true for all his children really but with Rheanyra at least it is accompanied by an (ultimatley harmful) spoiled indulgence that he offers only to his eldest daughter- covering up her obvious blunders and threatening anyone who would speak the truth of her questionable actions and her children's legitimacy including his own wife and sons ... going against traditional succession not because he wants to promote first born succession/succession by "merit"/or treating daughter equal to sons in terms of inheritance or anything like that but because of guilt and unashamed favoritism.

Viserys refuses to give to his son what westeros society at least would deem as Aegon's birthright, while also failing to make arrangements for any his non-Rhaenyra children to have a future and saftey separate from the throne.

He doesn't arrange matches with other kingdoms and give them allies, protection, family, independence, or a power base independent of the crown/hightowers instead leaving them dependent only on the crown, vulnerable targets to be handled (i.e. no doubt killed on the orders of Rhaenyra and/or her uncle husband Daemon) as living they would remain the most significant threat to the legitimacy of their rulership.

Viserys looks the other way when Aemond specifically is permanently maimed by Rhaenyra's son...his only action after his son loses his eye is to threaten his second family, to intimidate them into staying quite on the topic of the legitimacy of Rhaenyra's children before he deems the matter concluded... as if the worst part of that altercation was Aemond calling them bastards rather than say four children ganging up against one and how one of these children attacked using a knife and cost the other their fucking eye?

That for Aemond more than anything must cement his understanding of his father's feelings about Aemond and his full siblings and mother. To Viserys they simply matter less than Rhaenyra and her children.

In fact their well being or saftey matters less than even an offense made to Rhaenyra's reputation... which shows Alicent and her children without question that they are in danger from the blacks and the King will do nothing to prevent the blacks from trying to severely physically harm Aemond or his siblings, and in fact that there will be no punishment for the blacks when they succeed in doing so.

A civil war between the blacks and the greens was inevitable... Viserys actions of protecting and favoring Rhaenyra while also not ensuring she is instructed on and practices/proves her ability to rule, willfully ignoring that she violates her own vows and that she passes off her obviously illegitimate children as trueborn heirs, of permitting her not just to inherit (and position her illegitimate son as the next heir to) what most considered the birthright of her brother but also for her to steal the birthright of her own cousins by supplanting them with her other bastard and demoting them to being simply their brides/consorts, him keeping her as heir not just after he has multiple trueborn sons but also after Rhaenyra gets remarried to the exact violent bloodthirsty man that so many feared and Viserys himself had previously removed as his own heir in favour for Rhaenyra.

Viserys doing all of this while still choosing to remarry and have MULTIPLE children with his new wife... the neglectful and disrespectful way he treats his second family... all of this ensured that the death of some (if not all) of his children, via either assassination or in outright civil war, would always have been inevitable.

There is so much hatred, fear, distrust, and tension between Viserys' family members... and not only did he fail to intervene or improve things he was the one most responsible for it ....so much of the environment Alicent lived in and Aemond and his full siblings were raised was permeated by not just a sense of deep injustice (particularly in Aemond's case with his treatment by not just the blacks but his own father) but also an undercurrent of desperate fear over what will happen to them and their family in the wake of a brewing succession crisis

The mommy, daddy, and sibling issues are so strong with these two and I'm so obsessed with how the complicated family dynamics and tragic family losses that Ameond and Sansa experience echoe one another in so many ways...there is just so much love, grief, rage, unpacked trauma, and hurt in them and I am always obsessed with stories that allow the narrative or characters to address such trauma.

PART 3/4. THE CONTRASTING AND COMPLIMEMTARY ASPECTS OF THEIR STORIES (SUFFERING AND GRIEF)

They were both were so young when they became targets of the wrath and dislike of powerful and corrupt "Queens"

Sansa who loses her direwolf at the demand of Queen Cersei, a queen who after long being abused by her own husband sees a perhaps more extreme form of that sort of violence in her own mad son being directed at Sansa, who rather than expressing or experiencing compassion or sympathy instead takes the chance to revel in the destruction of Sansa's innocence, to mock and emotionally abuse Sansa when she has lost her father and her only protection in Kingslanding, leaving her a hostage of war at the mercy of a violent and corrupt royal family

Aemond who after losing his eye to an attack instigated by Rhaenyra's children receives no apology or recompense...instead his own sister asks for her mutilated little brother to be tortured sharply questioned due to the offense he caused by accusing her sons -accurately mind you- of being bastards... Aemond and his siblings who were never truly ever treated by Rhaenyra as her siblings only ever the offspring of Alicent and thus obstacles and threats for her (and her uncle's) right to the throne.

Both were physically harmed or tormented by (or with the approval of) young members of royalty, with very little being done to intervene, stop, or punish those involved despite their own highborn status- which would generally deem them unacceptable targets for such abuse.

Young Sansa a hostage but still a high born daughter descended from two of the seven ruling houses in westeros, The Warden of the North and the Lord Paramount of the Trident, and niece/cousin to the rulers of a third kingdom, the Lord Paramount of the Vale. Who while under the "care" of the crown is tormented, stripped, and beaten in open court at the behest of a mad boy king... forced to look upon the severed heads of her father and household, forced into being an unwilling child bride to the house of her family's enemies, who is molested and threatened with sexual assault on multiple occasions

Prince Aemond son of the King who is mocked by his brother and nephews (or his king and father in the books) over the fact that he hasnt yet claimed a dragon, and when this makes him reckless enough to approach and claim the largest dragon in existence the torment doesn't stop it gets dangerously worse as the tension between the children of the blacks and greens escalate to the point of a violent confrontation between Aemond and his nephews and cousins... and the resulting loss of of his eye when one of his attackers brings out a knife. None of the children who banded together to attack Aemond would face any consequences, only Aemond himself and his mother and older brother would censure and outright threats from their King Father and Older sister. Whose earliest sexual experience- done at the behest of his older brother- was implied to be at the very least coerced, traumatizing, and humiliating- if not outright non consensual on his part.

Both Sansa and Aemond face a terrible sort of loss when they begin losing their family members to mass civil war ...often in a manner that is distinctly horrific or against all laws of decency in the 7 kingdoms

her father Ned unjustly executed for treason and whose decapitated head is displayed and used to torment her, her younger sister Arya gone missing for years and long thought dead, her home sacked and younger brothers Bran and Rickon supposedly murdered by her family's ward- a boy who grew up alongside the stark children- the burned/mutilated heads and bodies of two young boys being being put on display at winterfell, her older Brother and Mother slaughtered when their traitorous allies and bannermen men break sacred guest rights at a wedding, both their bodies desecrated in a mockery of their houses... Robb decapitated his direwolves own head placed ontop of his body while his enemies parade his remains around, her mother Catelyn's throat slit and her body dumped naked in a river and left to rot.

(In the show) Rickon being cut down before his siblings eyes by a madman who betrayed their house and had tortured Sansa herself, her "half brother" Jon betrayed and murdered by his men and later sent off into a lonley exile away from his family and home for the "crime" of taking out an invader who had just committed mass murder... Sansa being left to rule the north all alone with many of her family members long dead and the surviving ones being set on a path away from the north/winterfell while she is left to handle rulership in isolation

Aemond who after commiting the first Kinslaying of the "war of dragons" by attacking his own assailant and nephew Lucerys proceeds to lose all of the family that he loved.

Starting with the tragic murder of his innocent young nephew at the behest of his elder sister/uncle- who arranged for his mother Alicent to be attacked tied up and forced to bear witness to the gruesome murder of her grandchild,

His sister Helaena -who plead for her life to be taken to spare her son- forced under the threat of the rape of her young daughter to choose which of her young sons will be murdered. Only for all of them to be traumatize further when they kill Jaehaerys and leaving Maelor the son she "chose" to die to survive with the message that his own mother wanted him dead... the emotional torment this caused the whole family but most of all his sister who refused to eat, bathe, or look upon her remaining son due to her immense feelings of guilt

his older brother Aegon who has lost his son and heir, and whose sister/wife is in a grief so deep she cannot care for their remaining children, who is attacked and maimed but survives to live on in total agony,

the murder of Maelor, Aemond's remaining nephew at the hands of a mob

Aemond's last stand, sacrificing his dragon and his own life to take out his Uncle (the biggest threat to his family and the orchestrator of Jaehaerys' brutal murder)

The many tragedies that continued after Aemond's own death- his sister's eventual suicide, the death of his younger brother Daeron, his oldest brother outlasting all of his siblings and his own two sons only to be taken out by poison once the war is over, his mother spending the last of her years in confinement until she passes from sickness,

His niece Jaehaera, after the loss of her entire family, married off as a child in the name of "peace" and dying young and alone- of suicide or murder

There is just such fascinating potential when two characters would have so much mirroring grief and trauma ...there is such an undercurrent of helpess rage, guilt, and grief to them in their youth and a undoubtedly a feverent desire for either vengeance or justice against the many people who harmed them or slaughtered their family...

And here is where things begin to differ between the two in interesting ways

with Sansa who has these violent wishes/impulses but is not in a position to see them fulfilled herself- her desire to push Joffrey to his death even at the cost of her own life, her wish that someone will throw Ser Meryn Trant down and cut off his head, her hope that various people will fall/be unhorsed...

Sansa who recieves a direwolf, Lady, the very symbol of her house and potentially a companion that would have offered a connection that was an extension of her own soul only for Lady to be cut down so quickly and unjustly... Sansa who loses not just the connection/companionship she recieved from Lady but also the protection such a bond would offer her ... she is left vulnerable in so many ways and has no promise of reuniting with her own direwolf later on... that will never be a comfort or form of security offered to her after all the danger and trauma she experiences

While Aemond, who spent much of his young life similarly helpless to act or respond to insults and assaults on his own person or immediate family, (that his father/king either never deemed worthy of interference or punishment... that is when it wasn't the King himself who was the perpetrator of such offenses) unlike Sansa experiences a change of fortune in the form getting to bond with the symbol of his house

He gains (and gets to keep until his own death) a bond with a different sort of mythical beast companion... a dragon and as a result recieves all the potential for power and destruction that comes with being a dragon rider

By claiming Vhagar Ameond is the closest he will ever be to untouchable, not just from the harassment he personally experienced from his family but with regards to how grave and dangerous a threat/target he had now become for the blacks during the dance of dragons

Aemond now a dragonrider of the largest living dragon, a child and later teenager who is in control of the narrative equivalent of a weapon of mass destruction, and he is no longer held back from acting on his anger once the rule and interference of his neglectful father king is over,

he is in control of the most massive beast of pure destruction and unlike Sansa, who for now in the books- or for much of her story in the show- remained an unprotected hostage or pawn in the hands of those who mean to harm or use her... who handles her trauma very internally as she is not in a position to fight back, and must rely on her words, intelligence, and ability to read and strategically interact with people as a way of defending and keeping herself safe, Aemond is now in the position to enact every bloodthirsty impulse of revenge he ever experienced

He was held back from enacting vengeance only through his own will, which ultimately proves not enough- he commits the first kin slaying and soon the actions of each side escalated into a horrific bloodbath where nobility and small folk alike suffered or die en masse

While Aemond's story may be one of family devotion and loyalty, mistreatment, injustice, and suffering that ends by showing the terrible outcomes of revenge and uncontrolled cruel brutality Sansa's story feels like one where grief, rage, and mistreatment exist but where family, love, compassion, kindness, justice, and integrity will win out in the end.

Sansa was certainly developed into a more discerning strategic and ruthless figure in the show but justice, duty, and forgiveness were still very prevalent in her storyline

she does have ramsay killed in a fittingly horrific manner, but she later holds a public trial for littlefinger- who was responsible for much of her familys suffering, the death of her father, and her own torment and rape- before she has him executed,

She feels compassion and forgiveness for theon the man who had betrayed her family and drove her young brothers out of their home, who only after experiencing significant torture himself became devoted to protecting the remaining starks and was able to find the courage to disobey his own torturers in order to help Sansa escape,

She possessed a concern for other people that few ruler do in asoiaf/got... speaking up against Joffrey's cruelty even as a powerless hostage, being the person concerned with the more practical matters of caring for and feeding their people during a harsh winter- a notable development in comparison to say everyone else just focusing on battle tactics and the upcoming battles (as though feeding an army is not an essential part of warfare), and the invader who just burned westeros' food stores en masse and now expects others to feed not just her armies but also demands that her dragons be fed "whatever they want"

I think in the books however that despite Sansa's internal grief and rage and her burgeoning political acuity there will be a gentler end to her arc where her own innate sense of duty and her (now more discerning) sense of compassion will win out in the end when she takes back her name, identity, and birthright ... that she along with her surviving family will have justice administered in the name of their lost family and people... efficiently bringing down righteous and necessary judgement on those that harmed and betrayed them rather than simply dealing out some form of mass, bloody, cruel revenge on her enemies (I'll leave that for lady stoneheart) ... and that a satisfying ending for her and the other starks will balance them realistically addressing the dangers and betrayal they faced with their own personal resolve to hold true to the values imparted to them by their parents.

... yet after all her suffering (and the frustrating lack of trust, consideration, or support she was given by her own family in the later GOT seasons) there is something darkly appealing to the idea of her getting (not a hero precisely) but a ruthless and devoted sort of monster to support her and bring down unholy vengeance on her various tormentors

PART 4/4: THE RESULTING DRAMATIC AND EMOTIONAL APPEAL OF AEMONDSA FICS

This after their many parallels and complementary contrasts is what intrigues me the most...the interplay of a potentially wary, cautious, traumatized but still duty and justice oriented person and a companion or lover who is comparatively more ruthless, unhinged, capable of atrocities, and who is more equipped to dole out violence en masse... (guys the pipeline from dark jon/dark jonsa to aemondsa just makes so much sense)

the question in Aemondsa fics of what will win out in the end- the shared grief and rage or them both controlling/channeling such impulses into strategic righteous fury and justice is always fascinating... and most of all the idea of Sansa (after all the trauma mistreatment and grief she has experienced) attaining the interest and eventual devotion of someone who despite being capable of monstrous actions is also incredibly loyal, devoted, and ruthless in the pursuit of their loved ones interests ("I want you to put out your eye ... plan to make it a gift if it to my mother" indeed) is just as appealing as the idea where an isolated, lonely, traumatized, grieving, and dangerously angry young man like Aemond gets to find acceptance, affection, companionship, and belonging with an intelligent strategic but more importantly an exceptionally compassionate person like Sansa.

Its just a dynamic far too intriguing to ignore especially for someome who already loved Time Travel/Reincarnation Fix IT AUs in fanfiction

While emotional catharsis and Sansa returning home and having the dreams she had wrote off as impossible be fulfilled (i.e. building a loving partnership and marriage, having children with someone who loves and wants her more than her claim itself, reuniting with her family) is something I love- and what I want to happen in canon (hence my otp being Jonsa)- there is always an interesting/guilty pleasure aspect of fanfic where Sansa (or the Starks in general) get to wreck terrible bloody victory and vengeance on those who betrayed and butchered their family and people (not really the ultimate message or point of the book but definitely emotionally satisfying in fanfic)

Just like there is a sort of appeal that exists in hotd fanfic that is sort of the opposite ...ones that alter the violent senseless and tragic trajectory of the dance of dragons... to either change the course of a brutal civil war or prevent it all together

and the Aemondsa pairing's time travel or reincarnation fics provide an opportunity to explore both of these diverse dynamics.

Sansa will always deserve the world... in canon and in fanfic i want to see all her dream and hopes come true whether it is with a truly good and just partner with whom she gets to build the life and home she always dreamed of or through her getting her very own devoted monster who would do anything to keep her safe from the scores of people who wish to misuse or harm her

and I always wish that hotd fanfiction offered more Aemond centric fics with a love interest that you know actually likes, sympathizes with, or understand him? He feels too tragic a character for me to want him to experience the typical hate and love (enemies AND lovers) treatment he tends to get in fanfic... its not really satisfying for me seeing his typical pairing up with whatever team black character (or really TB character rewrite) or some Daemon's or Rhaenyra's daughter OC that is the frequent choice for aemond centric fics...him being portrayed as some impusive awful and villainous love interest who changes sides and abandons his family just to be with his lover/obsession feels so out of character in a way that erases the best, most compelling, and sympathetic parts of his canon personality, motives, and actions.

Luckily Aemondsa fics seems to be a pairing that offers everything I like in Ameond or Sansa centric fics....

In conclusion Aemondsa is surprisingly compelling and versatile dynamic in fanfic and I think that is why I've become such a fan of Firesteel/Aemondsa fanfiction (in a way I'm NOT at all a fan of the actual HOTD show writing lol)

I'm a proud support of crack ships/rarepairs and I'm always willing to add to the fandom appreciation of pairings that gets less attention or fandom related works... so expect to see the occasional Aemondsa fanart/fic recommendation post from me amongst my typical jonsa content (in fact expect one in the next in a day or so)

Otherwise I just hope established Ameondsa fans (or people who haven't ready any aemondsa fics but are fans of either character/curious about this pairing in general) have enjoyed seeing me fangirl about these two characters/this crack ship and feel inspired to check out or even make their own Aemondsa content!

-Crimsom Cold

[wwdits-kink-meme]

WWDITS KINK MEME

Why not start a revival? Send in your prompts!!

This is an experimental format, so hopefully it works out!

SUBMIT A KINK MEME

FAQ (also under cut for mobile users)

What is a kink meme? Basically a public (usually nsfw) prompt, popularized on Livejournal. One person will throw out an idea that they don’t or can’t fulfill themselves in the hopes that it will spark creativity in someone else! A kink meme can be as simple as pairing + trope, or a full well-thought-out AU!

How do I submit a kink meme? Use the ask button on this blog and it will go into the queue! You can submit anonymously (traditional), but it will be posted either way - make sure you click anonymous if you don’t want your face on it!

How do I fill a kink meme? Any way you like! You can write a fic directly in the reblogs, post it on another site and provide a link, or even post a 32 part series in the replies! We just ask that you link the prompt on your creative piece and/or reblog the submission with your piece included or linked (whichever applicable). If you are putting an explicit fill in reblogs, please remember to add a community label if the original post does not already have one!

Can I fill/submit an NSFW prompt if I am under 18? NO!!!!!!!! Doing so not only endangers you, but the adults in fandom, as well. We can’t stop you from seeking out certain content if you want to see it, but you should not be interacting directly with adults on sexual topics.

Can I fill a prompt with art? Absolutely! If your craft is drawing, painting, crocheting, stop-motion, needlepoint, cosplay, etc etc etc and you are inspired by a kink meme, we encourage you to participate! We also encourage adding alt text to any images.

What content do you allow in submissions? All kinks are welcome - yes, even that one. We will reject submissions that are not WWDITS-based, are hateful in some way, or appear to be submitted in bad faith. Venting, character-bashing, or incomprehensible prompts will be deleted. Transphobia, racism, homophobia, antisemitism, ableism, etc will get you blocked. Due to the limitations of the mods, we are currently only accepting submissions in English or Spanish.

How are kink memes tagged? Tags will include any and all pairings, kinks, applicable tropes, and potentially triggering content to the best of our ability. If we have missed something or you would like to request a certain trigger tag, send us an ask! We cannot guarantee that we will be able to tag for everything, however, and it is important to remember to protect yourself and your online experience. Submissions with explicit language will have community tags attached.

Can I submit SFW prompts? Of course! Despite the name, kink memes aren’t just for porn.

Can I submit prompts with characters from the WWDITS movie, too? Absolutely!

Can I submit prompts with my OC? No, but not because we don’t like your OC - we just don’t know them! These prompts are for someone else to fill, so it has to include characters they know.

Can I submit reader-insert or y/n prompts? Yes, as long as the other characters are from WWDITS!

Can I submit RPF prompts? No, as we prefer that this kink meme focus on the characters in the show rather than the actors who play them. However, celebrities who have appeared in the show as themselves count as characters and are fair game (within reason)!

Can I submit crossover prompts? Yes, under certain conditions. This is a WWDITS kink meme, and we want to ensure those characters have the spotlight! So if your prompt is mostly about the crossover property, or if the WWDITS character is simply one of a medley of different characters, it may be rejected. No Harry Potter, please.

Can I make my own kink meme for a different fandom using this blog as a template? Of course! We encourage this - please bring kink memes back to fandom!!

Who are the mods? Just some adult fans who long for the insanity that was LJ back in the day.

Mod the Impaler - they/them ModMilla - she/her

[herejusttosufferalong]

I am starting to get a little concerned about how the fandom in handling things honestly.

When Luke and Nic said they found people shipping them cute they meant harmless edits and comments and a funny sentiment of wishing for them to be more, not people stalking or devolving their entire profiles to hundreds of videos overanalysing every single movement they do. At least not publicly. I understand being into the situation but private group chats or servers exist.

And even the fandom going into shambles every time some weirdos come up, commenting over it even to defend with 1031929 posts, just brings more attention to this stuff and blows it at a larger proportion. We shouldn’t give these people too much of a platform. It’s getting intense and I am starting to feel this might end badly.

We were very fortunate to have leads and actors as invested in engaging with the fans and the show as N and L and the atmosphere during the press tour was actually great and positive and fun without being too weird regarding the shipping. But now it’s getting too much. Sooner or later (if it didn’t happen already and I’m sure part of it at least did) this madness is gonna reach Luke and Nic and they’re gonna change their way to interact with the fandom forever and gonna put up boundaries that are as high as walls. Beside being hurt ofc.

Let’s go back to shipping them harmlessly. More cute comments and edits. More reminiscing of the good times of the world tour. Let’s relish in their chemistry and let’s root for them.

Less investigation and scrutiny. They’re people after all. Real ones.

We already did too much with L after pap gate. Let’s be better and let’s let them be a little.

.

[numericalbridge]

i like how Raine didn't even try to smile in front of the Emperor (or cover their mouth like some other CHs):

and tbh i think this scene is meant to be taken more 'symbolically' as a hint to the audience that there is something different with the Bard Coven Head's reaction, rather than what was exactly happening in-universe. But if they were indeed just facing the Emperor frowning i feel like it would be something Belos would notice - and it could have been something to add to the developing conflict (in the narrative sense, not, like, a direct fight) between them if only there was ever an actual interaction between the two.

And it would definitely explain why Darius would consider them a bad actor if they did not even try to hide their lack of enthusiasm - although i do think their bickering over Raine's acting ability is taken way too seriously by the fandom when they were just bantering. And i can kinda see a possibility where Raine's acting in s2b had improved after they got some pointers from Darius. (Darius also worded it like he was the reason Raine wasn't locked up even though at the end Kikimora was the one who had captured them - and i wonder whether this was just an insignificant phrasing or Raine was meant to be locked down after the ER, and Darius suggested the plan with the memory loss spell, knowing Raine would be able to counter the spell). Edit: I also like to headcanon that both Darius' and Raine's acting was lacking in different directions - Darius' villainous role was limiting what he could do and who would trust him, while Raine was just way too obvious. So they needed to combine their braincells together and give each other some tips.

Conclusion: what Raine really needed was to grow/to put on a fake mustache or beard to hide the lower part of their face /j

[b0ylik3r]

the other day i caught myself thinking about an invader zim actor au and it made me very happy to think of. think of them messing around behind the scenes. switching costumes. the GRUELING PROCESS of painting zims face every single day. gir being a little toddler who's randomly good at improv so he puts things in the script when he forgets and they just keep it in. zim and dib laughing too hard at a scene to actually finish it, then finally finishing it and being able to stop laughing finally. the end of season 1, them all celebrating because they're finally done with it and then season 2 gets announced, they pray it gets cancelled and then it does. them interacting with fans. BLOOPER REEL. them really really REALLY wanting to be part of nicktoons unite (i think? im not part of the nicktoons fandom just the iz one) and then they get called in to be part of it and being absolutely ecstatic. just. invader zim actor au.

[lover-of-mine]

I'm not your Lady Whistledown, but the Oliver stuff started very subtly following the joint interview. I think reality hit a few of them following that. They built it up as this big springboard for the ship and when it didn't go that way the, there were no more interviews, or promo for the pair from the show, anger at Oliver started to creep in. It was subtle until Lou closed his cameo, but once they lost their direct contact with him, lots of them blamed Oliver. They believe the show forced him to shut it down. And many believe Oliver had something to do with that. It didn't help that immediately after he closed his cameo he also stopped interacting with or answering their questions on Twitter. And of course Oliver started blocking people as well. There are lots of them who are also freaking out over the SWAT stuff because he's clearly going back to that show, in some capacity, and they don't know what that will mean for his availability as far as 911 goes.

Ryan's interviews aren't helping them either. He's kind of been systematically disproving each of their arguments with every interview he does. The Men's Health interview with Oliver, I think was just what finally broke some of them. He's not going to get on board with Tommy, whether the show gives him canon Buddie or not, he clearly isn't vested in or going to vest in B/T and I think that's getting harder and harder for them to pretend away. I think it's also becoming clear that Lou's enthusiasm for it has certainly dimmed as well, for whenever reason. They're not being fed anything to sustain them anymore because all of it was coming from Lou himself and once he stopped they didn't have anything else to cling too. So being mad at Oliver is all they have left because they're never going to blame or be angry at Lou. So now Oliver, Tim and even Ryan, because lots of them think Oliver would be fine with B/T if Ryan wasn't around, are to blame for everything. Their ship was never about Oliver or Buck. Once Lou made himself available to their fawning and played along with it, all while taking their money, it became a fandom about Lou. Buck was just the character paired with the actor they were fetishizing. Hopefully they follow him out the door.

wait, they are blaming Oliver for the cameos stopping? I mean, I keep joking if it came down to it the production is gonna do what keeps Oliver happy, but to say Oliver has that kind of pull is just a lazy excuse to hate him. Lou was creating a type of publicity that didn't line up with the route they were going. That's even if Lou was told to stop, we don't know that for sure, do we? Dude can just get tired of playing it up not that he got the exposure he could get and now it has run it's course. I have a little prayer circle for him to book something else and not come back, so if he's back in swat, you will hear me cheering, but seriously, the more I learn the more wtf i am. But it does make sense that they built the thing around the shiny new actor and now can't keep up because the part of the ship that actually matters doesn't care, that adds up. I kinda wanna scream tho, Ryan's interviews are because he's promoting a movie. The dude is not getting interviews because of 911, the fact that he can't shut up about buddie doesn't change the fact that he is not there to talk about them. And since the beginning, Oliver keeps talking about Buck being bisexual outside of Buck dating Tommy, and it's crazy to watch the fantasy crumble when there was never to back it up to begin with. Honestly, I do hope that when Tommy goes he takes that part of the fandom with him, because my god....

[different-pridemonthera]

Hello, I'm not a native English speaker, but as a part of the queer community, I'd love to write a lengthy post to express my thoughts on why I find it absurd for people to criticize an actual canon queer ship for a queerbaiting ship, especially during Pride Month.

Originally thought that since the season finale was coming, I wouldn't make sharp comments anymore. Just wait for Season 8. The ship war that has been bubbling with noise previously is actually quite boring, especially those who can't tell what status virtual characters really are, and insist on picking out character issues, hoping that the character will die as soon as possible. The even lower-intelligence ones are those who can't tell the difference between characters and reality, and rush to attack the actors, trying to drive the actors away. It only leaves people speechless, feeling like I am facing a group of stereotypical teenagers across the network.

Then, as soon as Pride Month rolled around again, the 911 twt community's largest fan news account stirred up controversy by including a photo of Buddie among a group of canon queer characters to celebrate Pride Month. Personally, I don't have strong feelings about it. Firstly, Pride Month is all about inclusivity and acceptance. Secondly, it's a fan account and they can post what they want. Thirdly, Buddie, being one of the hottest queerbaiting ships in the 9-1-1 fandom, would undoubtedly be featured during Pride Month. While this might have happened in previous years too, but this year was different due to a major development in season 7, Buck's bisexual awakening, along with a new canon queer ship bucktommy/tevan that's currently in development.

Firstly, I don't think that just because Buck and Tommy became canon, it means you can't still ship Buddie. Ship culture is basically about shipping anything you want.

However, I also understand why some people might have issues with celebrating Pride Month with Buddie after the Buck and Tommy canon. The reality is many people forget that Buddie is a classic example of queerbaiting (it even made it to Wikipedia's queerbaiting page as a typical case). Or, more accurately, many people don't realize that queerbaiting, as a marketing strategy, is actually harmful to the real LGBTQ+ community. From a queer perspective, queerbaiting is simply a way to attract viewers by consuming the LGBTQ+ community, and the characters involved are essentially detached from reality. In a sense, any interactions they have that seem chemically charged are meaningless. A more specific example would be in Season 7 when Buck comes out, and Oliver, the actor, immediately receives private messages from closeted firefighters thanking him. This kind of thanks would not have happened during any scene between Buck and Eddie in seasons 2-6, especially when both characters had girlfriends. There is almost no real LGBTQ+ person could truly relate to such scenes. However, the possibility implied by queerbaiting exactly hits their desire for resonance. This is why I believe canon is important, only through canon can characters connect most closely with the real LGBTQ+ community. How much can a queerbaiting ship (where Eddie doesn't even have a canon LGBTQ+ character identity) contribute to the real LGBTQ+ community? Especially when fans of this queerbaiting ship hope that a canon queer ship with a clear positive impact will bone? Now it's even starting to reject TV shows that show two men flirting with daddy issue jokes. I ship buddie for Almost 5 years, My personal reason for wanting Buddie to become canon besides the chemistry was largely because I didn't want them to continue queerbaiting: they should officially get together or clearly not be together. Now that Buck has become bi, Buddie has slowly shifted into a ship baiting nature, but it cannot be denied that Buddie was queerbaiting before.

And I've been thinking that Eddie is gay for a long time, even though some so-called "insiders" have recently revealed that the ana breakup line is a precursor to his being gay, I still don't understand the so-called queer code, can you call it a queer code when every heterosexual relationship doesn't end well? Then it seems that every scumbag is a queer code, not to mention the fact that Ryan himself explicitly mentioned the word heterosexual in his interview describing buck's coming out scene to Eddie. Do the people who think Eddie is gay really know what sexual orientation means? The point is to be sexually attracted to men and only men. Eddie has been shown enjoying heterosexual sex on more than one occasion so far, and even Michael (Athena's ex-husband) came out at the beginning of the show and then made it clear that he would never have sex with Athena again. is it okay for a gay man to have heterosexual sex? Maybe it is. But do gay people enjoy heterosexual sex? You've got to be kidding me! Eddie being a bisexual or pansexual makes a lot more sense to me than being gay. Secondly the speculation about Eddie being Demisexual, Honestly, I didn't understand the concept of Demisexual very well, but I really don't think he's very Demisexual, he and shannon got back together only by having sex when they had relationship problems, and now he and marisol are already having sex frequently without having progressed to the point where they can cohabitate, does that really fit the definition of Demisexual? I just not so sure.

And even if Eddie is gay/Demisexual doesn't mean buddie canon, another point I really want to say is that almost most buddie fans feel that the character's sexuality can only be a PLOT DEVICE in the service of buddie, which is why the atmosphere in the fanbase was still harmonious during the period after s7ep4 and before ep5, because in the interview tim mentioned that the next episode of bucktommy's date didn't go well, and everyone didn't take Tommy's character seriously, thinking that Tommy was a tool, and that he would leave soon, and then buck would go and develop buddie obediently, which is actually a very good indication that they didn't take buck's bisexuality seriously too, and then they found out that bucktommy's coffee date was thriving again in the ep5 finale, which immediately starts attacking the character tommy and the actor lou because they are in buddie canon's way. Oliver mentions that there was a bi buck plot in s4, and in the absence of any information mentioning eddie they immediately think it's buddie canon again, and that all of buck's and eddie's sexuality The correlation can only be to run to buddie, there is no possibility of the two of them each finding someone else. At the end of the day they see buck as eddiesexual and Eddie as bucksexual (in fact shannonsexual would seem to make more sense), come on it's not even a sexual orientation. It's funny how tim coming back and making buck bi but not developing buddie gets called out as well, and how some people think that everyone calling out KR before was actually wrong about KR, and how some people think that buddie is the right character and actor meeting the wrong author and writer, it's really humorous and interesting thought.

All in all, can you heterosexuals who love queerbaiting ship move aside during pride month and stop pretending to be ally while attacking a real canon queer ships? and can the queer who love queerbaiting realize the dangers of queerbaiting? ...... but at the end of the day they are all virtual characters and it's up to the writers to write them, I'd love to see them make Buddie canon, but it's not even close to that day, Let's really canon queer ship bucktommy have a good time with their first pride month please.

thank you for reading, happy pride month!🏳️‍🌈