#inzoi discourse

[theamberplumbob]

My Thoughts on Inzoi

I figured since my post about the whole Inzoi terms of service debacle blew up in a way that I never would have predicted, I should probably give a more nuanced explanation of my stance on the game and the discourse around it in general.

First off, I will just say right off the bat that I am not a fan of Inzoi, and unless some very big changes are made to the game, I am not interested in playing it.

I also want to make clear that my dislike of Inzoi is NOT motivated by any sort of love or loyalty to EA or The Sims. If there's one good thing to come out of Inzoi its breaking the monopoly that EA has over the life sim genera and giving The Sims competition. I also want to say that I despise EA for what it has done to the Sims franchise, and while I have played an absurd amount of hours in The Sims 4, I think it is objectively a bad product.

My biggest problem with Inzoi, first and foremost, is it's the use of AI. Inzoi allows players to use generative AI to make custom textures, designs, and paintings within the game. You may not agree with me on this but I am fully of the opinion that real artists should have been hired and paid to create all of the textures/paintings/designs for this game. Allowing players to upload their own photos and videos is one thing, but Krafton, a multi billion dollar company, chose to not support real, professional artists so they could save what is essentially pennies to them. All this results in, frankly, ugly and uncanny looking generated designs plastered all over the furniture and decor. For this reason alone I do not support Inzoi, but there's so much more to it than that.

There's also the fact that we have no idea how their AI is trained. Krafton apparently has an "AI Ethics Committee," but we have no clue what their actual code of ethics are. While it's bad faith to assume, they could be using stolen artwork for their AI. It is also very likely that whatever images you upload into the game, as well as any use of their facial scanning feature, could also be used as material to train their AI. This could lead to all sorts of ethical and legal issues I don't even know where to begin.

Secondly, I have to say, looking at the early access footage from youtubers and everything else I've heard about the game, it feels like its only going to repeat most of TS4's mistakes. In youtuber NotMalcolm's most recent video he discusses Inzoi's overly sanitized approach to various aspects of life, most notably that you can't try for a baby unless you are already married (source). Just like TS4, Inzoi is appealing to a younger demographic and sanding down the rougher aspects of life in order to cater to them. I fear that Krafton is likely taking it a step further and not only watering down the game for the sake of potential child players, but also using them as an excuse to enforcing extremely traditional values on its players. I have no interest in playing a life sim that only allows me to play out a single, socially acceptable way of living.

It also, like TS4, feels like a Young Adult Wish Fulfillment Sim™. The gameplay looks shallow, and it feels like it exists more to make aesthetic screenshots than it does to be an actual game.

I think when people say that Inzoi is missing the "quirky weirdness" of the Sims, what they actually mean is that Inzoi is devoid of personality. One thing that stuck out to me immediately is that the animations are so stiff, robotic, and lifeless. Again, everything is made to be ~*Aesthetic*~ with no regard to an actual sense of identity or personality.

I know people will say that its only in early access, but given how close public early access is to release, I highly doubt any significant changes are going to be made to improve what will be given to us when the time comes.

On a similar note, there's the fact that Krafton has never made a game before now that hasn't been riddled with micro transactions. I personally predict that Inzoi's monetization strategy will be just as, if not more predatory than TS4's is. The fact that we are drawing so close to public early access and have not heard a single word on their method of monetization speaks volumes. I simply do not trust it.

Now, of course, I need to elaborate on the whole Terms of Service Situation. I understand fully that Krafton's terms of service is industry standard and not too dissimilar to EAs, however, this post highlights that whats really concerning about Krafton's ToS is how difficult and confusing it is for players to access and review it. I find it understandable that Krafton's proud use of AI makes people a lot more nervous as to what their data could potentially be used for, and are going to be a lot more weary of Inzoi's ToS. Though I understand that it is only speculation, many have made the assumption that Krafton may use user's personal data to train AI.

I did not expect my post on the subject to make so much traction, and I now regret how impulsively I made the post. I feel I've contributed to fear mongering, even though I feel my concerns at the time were valid and I felt like people had the right to know. I could have done more research and given more of an explanation for what my concerns were instead of basically saying "Yikes..." and leaving it at that.

I was also told through an anonymous ask that the auto accepting of the ToS on closing the game was a bug that had apparently been fixed the first day the character creation trial was available. I of course cannot verify this myself, but I will take them on good faith.

I would also like to touch on two other talking points that have been very prevalent in the Inzoi discourse:

Diversity - I think this links back to my previous point about the game's goal of being as ~*aesthetic*~ (and marketable) as possible at the detriment of everything else. The game is clearly catering to a very specific, very pale and thin standard of Korean beauty, and I think that everything that doesn't conform to that standard was sidelined as a result. I will be fair and say that the Inzoi team still has ample opportunity to fix this and add more options over time. TS4 was also severely lacking on release, but over the years has made great strides in regards to representation. However I would have hoped that Inzoi, a game planning to release in early access in 2024, would do a lot better than a game that was initially released in 2014.

Partnership with Curseforge - I've seen many people accuse critics of Inzoi's partnership with Curseforge of being hypocritical, since TS4 also has a partnership with them. Of course, one would have to ignore the massive, community wide boycott of Curseforge, and the pressure the community has put on CC creators to stop using the platform for that claim to hold any water. I also think there is a notable difference in EA choosing to partner with Curseforge before the Israel/Palestine conflict began, and Krafton actively choosing to partner with Curseforge now, during an active genocide taking place, in which Curseforge's parent company, Overwolf, actively advocates for and donates to those committing said genocide.

In conclusion, there are a lot of valid reasons to not like/be suspicious of Inzoi. Of course I can't tell you what to do or what games you play, nor can I force you to agree with me, but don't be so quick to write off or demonize those who are simply trying to raise awareness or drawing boundaries regarding Inzoi and those who choose to make content with it.

I also encourage you to consider the points I've made and maybe think twice before investing yourself in yet another game that will very likely exploit your attachment to it in the very same way that EA and the Sims has. You need to make them deserve your time and money, which is why I'm encouraging you to advocate for a better and more ethical game.

You deserve better. We all do.

[deathbypufferfish]

I forgot I blocked the inzoi tag because everyone was being so damn annoying 😭

[servospawn]

My main takeaway throughout all the inZOI discourse I've seen the last few days:

I wish folks would just let the game thrive (or fail) on it's own. I do understand ppl will naturally compare it to TS4 but lets not do that please lol. If you're truly looking for a TS4 gameplay alternative.. TS3 is right there; as a complete series and without the merry-go-round of game patches or broken mods to fuss over. Personally, Character Creation for me is just not enough to start dropping my jaw.. I needed to see something other than the Zoi's themselves because even with all that customization they all still gave same face syndrome. If I wanted to see my OC's look pretty and realistic I could just log in Secondlife, or.. again.. TS3. I took a peak into Oshin's gameplay demo and it was.. promising. There were some obvious red flags like not being able to multitask and those horrible cutaway scenes but for a stand alone base game with no added DLC's I cut it some slack. Maybe they will listen to their community's needs and improve on some things.. maybe they won't IDK. A huge turn off I noticed as I was watching: It seems like they might have used AI or something to replicate the Simlish language down to a T. It completely kicked me out of the immersion I was feeling when I should have been becoming more ingratiated into this world. It was also weird to me that they even have a custom language when all the products around them were written in English.. it just didn't make sense and seemed rushed on their part. The Uncanny Valley thing looked less predominant once you got into the world where Zoi's are surrounded by their intended environment and not just stuck behind a blank screen. My original first impression of it gave me GTA vibes and I still stand by that but it also strongly resembles DAZ Studio; which is the epiphany I had as to why I don't like the way the Zoi's look. I have no issue with realism and lifelike features.. I mean look at all my custom skins. It's that specific DAZ aesthetic i'm just not into.

[procrasimnation]

Some thoughts on the discourse around inZOI, which no-one asked for:

I don't think it's currently easy to quantify how much more wasteful normal consumer AI use is than playing a cloud-based game, particularly given that many people play these games for hours at a time. There is probably more noise around the energy cost of AI versus the energy cost of cloud-based gaming because people don't like generative AI for other reasons (many of which are valid). I am not criticising this, it's just how humans work and it is not a bad thing if this is the issue which causes someone to look more closely at the regulation (or lack thereof) of data centres for the first time.

There may be uses of generative AI that would justify the energy cost (noting this should still be accompanied by meaningful regulation of the impact of these data centres), but there is very little social value or use in being able to have whatever pattern you can imagine on an object in a game. My personal view is that the appropriate extra energy cost of implementing it is 'basically zero.' It seems unlikely this is the case, particularly if the AI feature means the game needs to be cloud-based. However, I do accept it's possible I casually use online infrastructure with equally bad use-to-cost value and societal impact.

There are obvious ethical and IP issues around the datasets that AI is trained on and inZOI have been evasive on this issue to date. While the Sims has a thriving community of people just grabbing textures that others have created online and sticking them on objects, there is a difference in impact and scale between FreePatreonModder1004 sticking a t-shirt with a stencil they yanked off deviantart up for their audience of 150 people and a corporation making it a selling point of their game. In those cases where AI is being used unethically, energy cost isn't really a factor in the same way because you just shouldn't do it lol.

I don't like the partnership with Curseforge, for obvious reasons. There's a limit to how far I can take this point because EA partnered with them too (although that started before their donations came to light and I'm not convinced it is still ongoing) and I'm here shilling their product like a goon every day, but it's there.

[paperskin-writtenon]

Why yall gotta say Inzoi will be the sim killer. You can have BOTH. You're allowed to like BOTH. why are games meant to be relaxing and fun so high stakes for yall? Same for things like MTAS, like??? Chill out?? It is a GAME. For fun. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING in your life is riding on this and if it is then you've got much bigger things to worry about. Relax. Breath. There is a reason it is called PLAYING video games. Because they're a form of play. So play the way we all did as kids: play to have fun and stop making discourse where there does not need to he any.

Be respectful of the game devs culture. It is a Korean game. There will be things that we see as acceptable in our culture that they won't. I'm sorry there's no same sex marriage, but it's a KOREAN game. It is illegal there, regardless of if you think it should be or not. I wish it was in the game too, but don't rage at the devs for not putting something that could get them in trouble.

And I feel the need to remind you, as some of these posts are coming off so incredibly and ridiculously entitled: THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO MAKE THE GAME AT ALL. it's early access, of course it's not finished yet. You didn't have to buy it, you could have waited. They could have just heard all your whining and decided to scrap the project. But they made it and, from what I've seen, are very passionate about it.

The developers are people. They will not get everything exactly how you want it. Shut. Up.

[wildfangz]

@ Anon respectfully I do not feel comfortable publishing your ask because of the namedropping and I hope you can understand that. I'm going to put this under a cut since it got long but I want to put it out there for anyone engaging with this subject at all to please be mindful of if you're holding black simmers to higher standards or being more aggressive with them, think about what language you're using to describe inZOI and rather it's rooted in anti-asian sentiment, and call each other out when you see other simmers crossing lines.

All I can say first off is I'm so sorry you received the same ask. It is mindblowing to me that someone can ~supposedly~ care about such a subject but be such a bigot which is why I suspect this isn't a person that cares at all and is just using this discourse as a power trip or to fuel their rage addiction. The fact we both received the same ask and it wasn't just unique spur-of-the-moment ableism directed at me bc I pissed them off just makes me more confident in that belief.

And I'm sorry for other aggressive asks you received. Even if you had actually touched the demo and even if you knew about the AI like I said earlier, I feel like there's no good reason to approach people like that. It often has the opposite effect and it's just shitty! Be normal! Stop dehumanizing people that don't 100% agree with you or that are ignorant! Not only are there people that probably agree with you but just didn't think before jumping in which isn't a crime btw, or didn't know, but I know from experience you can even convince people that are excited about the AI inclusion away from supporting it. It always starts with kindness rather than shame or aggression.

Race issues are not something I feel comfortable speaking on in depth because that is not my place but I have noticed a lot of simmers messing around with and enjoying inZOI right now are POC, and black specifically. I can understand the frustration when you feel like you finally have a game that respects you and represents you for it to suddenly be the subject of controversy, I can understand the bad taste in your mouth it leaves to watch fellow black simmers getting harassed seemingly by mostly white and nonblack simmers, and I have no doubt you're getting the worst of any harassment because that's how racism goes. I do also agree that some of the "soulless" type of comments do come off sinophobic and anti-asian in general. (Using sinophobic specifically here since I know the game is made by a south korean company but I've still seen people go on anti-chinese rants about it, and I still remember seeing someone refer to it as "Soulless chinese crap" back not too long after it got announced specifically on yt)

I just ask that fellow white simmers and nonblack simmers try to be mindful about how they're interacting with POC on this subject, and speak up when you see someone being weirdly harsh or mainly targeting black users or other POC. I also ask that people be mindful of the words they're specifically using to describe this game and why they're using those words. And yes I'd agree it's really weird to put a black person specifically on blast while you're just quietly unfollowing and blocking other groups of people that have touched or talked about the game.

That said I hope you or anyone else doesn't let racists and immature people drown out the actual solid criticisms this game is getting. I know I played with the demo and watched gameplay videos, and I'm going to utilize the interest I do have in the game to try to voice my concerns before its too late, but if the AI stays in I will not be purchasing the game and it will not be getting any mentions from me on this blog and that's for what I feel are good reasons.

It's also not great they have a partnership with Curseforge at the moment and I'd love if the community could persuade them out of it, but at the same time I feel like it'd be hypocritical of me to demonize the game completely for that when The Sims has the same deal going on. I think if you're someone strongly in the "It's flat out evil they're doing this and you should not even be talking about the game because of it" camp then respectfully your morals dictate you shouldn't be playing or talking about the sims either, even if you pirated it, even if you invested in it long before the collaboration came about. Been leaving a bad taste in my mouth seeing people be so selective about their morals and knowing it's just different to them because it doesn't directly effect them, they weren't interested or invested in this game at all before this point. Also been sad seeing people brush off and shut down discussion of the impact gaming has on the environment as well, again, because it suits their interests, but I digress.

Overall I feel like there's a lot of people getting caught up in emotions right now, and being further riled up by bad actors, and shutting any and all arguments down out of natural defensiveness when ideally this could be a community discussion. Like I feel like we could do so much more good educating & putting pressure on Krafton collectively to change these things whether we have any interest in the game or not than just trying to shame and block anyone that's not within our echo chamber, or strawmanning anyone that takes issue with the game.

Anyway all that aside I can perfectly understand why you don't feel safe in the community. This is just one incident out of a long line of incidents. Even outside of tumblr and outside of serious topics I've seen so much crazy shit!

Simmers can be especially vicious even compared to other gamers, so I don't wanna say just ignore it. If it takes a significant enough toll on your mental health, it's unfortunate you feel you have to, but you're not "losing" by stepping away from the community. You deserve to enjoy the sims in peace, and if you still want the good parts of the community there's a lot more tight knit sims communities you can enter into other than simblr. At very least right now I'd recommend turning off anon asks and utilizing the block button.

At the same time while getting shitty messages is always distressing sometimes the trash takes itself out !! I wouldn't want anyone following and interacting with me anyway that assumed the absolute worst of me just because I reblogged a mutuals zoi right after the demo came out, and again I'm sorry you got shit for that without even knowing anything about the game.

But I'm a very big believer in people being themselves and the people that matter or align with you will stick around. You do not have to, and shouldn't, give a fuck about people that are disingenuous or dedicated to misunderstanding or misinterpreting you. Anyone on any side of this. And I know that's easier said than done, for me this mindset didn't fully sink in until I cut off some family members that had drained my self confidence all my life, but adopting it makes life so much easier and I hope you can one day enjoy the sims as publicly as you want without worrying about what anyone else has to think or say, within reason.

[armoricaroyalty]

the inzoi thing launched literally this morning and i've already seen an incredible amount of deeply stupid discourse about it, well-done everyone

[symmage]

The discourse over on Twitter about Inzoi and Sim 4 is...