#it feels genuinely incompatible for him to be involved in anything romantic when he's all about body horror and obsessively being peppino

[the-awful-falafel]

monsterkisser fake peppino fans, can y'all please make sure your version of the character clearly and visibly passes the harkness test at minimum before getting too weird about him or his relationships with other characters, ok thx bye

[william-s-churros]

olan headcanons lol

VERY RAMBLING AND SUBJECT TO CHANGE LOL. if youve read my fics some of this stuff will be obvious but if not, here. you can avoid my fics entirely. i change tenses a lot i think in this and im so sorry

i think that being married was genuinely like a traumatic experience for him. i think he very much did experience intense romantic attraction to his wife at first, but that it probably petered out very, very quickly and for no discernable reason (possibly just that they were incompatible in the long term, which would be obvious if not for the fact that they were still in the honeymoon phase) but he was probably a very conflict-averse person who values his ability to go with the flow, even if that flow is incredibly damaging for him to go with. its just easier to, rather than fight, escape into alcoholism and mouldering resentment. i mean, i dont say this to exuse his neligence as a husband and father, but just to explain why lol. im sure he was a terrible, terrible father in the process of all this. just also maybe that he didnt have a good time either lol. like im sure part of that feeling of being unnecessary to them was him making himself unavailable to even be neccesary.

definitely married young because he got his then-girlfriend pregnant. definitely then married her because that's the good catholic boy thing to do. (also yeah hes catholic in my mind lmao. what else is new with me. i feel like theres probably a sizeable catholic community in olathe for no reason besides i said so, because i love giving characters very catholic-y feelings lol)

i think probably, in the aftermath of this, he enjoys the freedom from his family quite a bit. like, im sure he didnt want them to die, but he probably never wanted to see them again. like the responsibility of having a family was too much for him, and he constantly failed at it, so not having that failure and pressure hanging over his head is a welcome relief, even if the method by which it happened was extremely unfortunate. i kind of imagine that loss was something more of a hollowness than a more typical sense of grief. im sure he feels very weird and bad about all of it, but thats what drinking is for! eyyyyy. probably a lot of that feeling weird and bad is worrying about the judgment of others, too.

as a result, i feel like his relationship style is probably like. none. like i imagine since his marriage was so terrible, he probably just assumes that every relationship he's in will also be terrible because he assumes he is just terrible at relationships, and does his best to actively avoid being actually romantically involved with people, to actively avoid developing feelings for people, or even like sleeping with people more than once. that said, i feel like he would fuck anyone with a pulse who gave him the go ahead lmao. he's looking for good memories (and a stiff drink ofc) more than anything! and that means trying to do as much fun stuff as he can before he dies. i do sort of feel like that its extremely possible to fall into those intense romantic feelings-- the kind he had early on with his wife-- but they, again, would probably not last a very long time, and his system of being a one-and-done lay works to insulate him from those feelings (typically)

all this stuff if meant to insulate him from pain and conflict of course. i feel like he probably lies (or "bends the truth" lol) frequently for similar reasons.

definitely someone who only really does stuff he's either already good at or is good at immediately lol. zero discipline

no gag reflex at all (extremely important headcanon)

uhh i think he's probably pretty gay? but he doesn't think of himself that way. in his mind, he's straight, but also willing to play the cards he's been dealt because he enjoys having sex and, you know, why not? its probably more accurate to say that he's bisexual, but he probably never considered the possibility of sleeping with a man until after the flash when that was all that was available. i feel like he made it like 3 months before being like oh... whatever... fine. ill try sucking cock. he's also vers lol, mostly because a lot of other "straight" men after the flash don't want to bottom.

he's good at other long range accuracy sports (like darts and uhhh bowling??) but he has zero coordination when it comes to hand to hand combat.

tall? maybe not super tall, but still on the taller side, like 6ft. also one of those people whos never had to work out to maintain his physique. a lot of things like this have been very easy for him in life, which cultivated his very poor discipline habits. probably of average intelligence, but very good at bullshitting and thus got good grades in school.

he has an associates degree in communications.

he did not enjoy his job, but he did enjoy being away from his family. decent-ish salesman? it helps that he's very friendly and basically handsome. definitely drank on the clock.

has a DUI, but has driven under the influence hundreds if not thousands of times lol. he's probably smoked weed only a few times when he was younger but he didn't know what he was doing and didn't actually get high (he probably had a bit of a placebo effect where he felt what he thought people felt while high on marijuana, which was not accurate at all) he grew up in a household where drinking was very normal and began drinking as a very young teen (13 or 14?) also a casual smoker, especially likes to smoke after sex or a good meal.

he's a bit of a square, and especially was one before the flash. he definitely did things that were expected of him (i.e. getting married) because that was the normal thing to do more than because he wanted to. he had a pretty deep investment in appearing to be normal before the flash. after the flash, he's not nearly as worried, but he still has some residual mindsets that are hard to get over, which lead him to do things like, for example, consider himself to be straight lol

he obviously has a very high tolerance for alcohol and could drink any other party member under the table.

he "likes" birdie, but birdie also makes him feel extremely insecure about how terrible he was as a father and how little he cares that his family is dead. sometimes, this causes him to lash out at birdie in really stupid ways, like over-exaggerating just how little he cared about his family to upset birdie. he does regret doing this because it makes birdie cry. birdie does not really like olan because of this type of behavior, but often forgets that when he's particularly plastered, and olan is usually the only person who is willing to drink as much as he is, so they do hang out together despite both of them kind of not enjoying the experience at all.

he likes brad a lot because brad is very weird lmao. he's just curious about him and asks him a lot of questions (most of which brad does not answer of course) and wants brad to like and trust him. he also wants to make brad have fun and relax (good luck with that one bud... lmao)

I don't think he has much interest in buddy at all? he fully supports brad abandoning his quest to save her, of course, mostly because he doesnt see the point of it.

he probably gets along with nern pretty well but definitely only enjoys his rambly ass stories when he's good and drunk. they complain about their dead wives with each other. yeah he probably kind of sucks about women, not in like a malicious way per se but more in the sense that he's just an idiot man. basically. lmao. but nern really brings out the worst in him on the subject of women.

he likes terry a lot because terry is a ridiculous person and a lot of fun. ignoring the fact that i ship them, i think he just really enjoys what a silly, weird dude he is. he is probably a longtime hint enjoyer and was pleased to meet the guy who wrote them all. NOT ignoring that i ship them, i feel like olan sort of views terry as one would a manic pixie dream girl, like, terry makes his life so exciting! he's going to pull olan out of this existential mire! he's making olan feel things again! he's damaged and desperate for love! and he's such a freak in bed! idk. its not the most accurate of reads is all im saying. idk how it would work out in the longrun with them, though. i think olan would kind of maybe slide into his avoidant-resentful mode if enough time passed, but it might take longer than it did with his wife because theyre just really good at having sex with each other lol.

he's probably been to the beehive like plenty of times so queen roger knows of him and he knows of queen roger, but i doubt theyve encountered each other much outside of maybe roger kicking him out on his ass because he was too drunk or trying to sleep there like its a hotel

and uhhh i havent thought a lot about what he thinks of the other companions as much. i feel like he probably likes most of them? he probably likes most people he meets tbh.

anyway im tired of writing this long ass shit lol bye

[ichabodcranemills]

re: D*rklina

@musical-chick-13 I’m putting this under a read more, because I have additions and, yes, it is long 😂

So, as far as I can tell from what show-watchers have told me, yes, he is definitely worse in the books. And specifically, the general idea in said books seems to be that just because someone is charismatic and attractive and “gets” parts of you doesn’t mean that they’re a good partner or even worth your time, which is a message I have waited FOREVER to see. Beauty (and to a lesser extent, magnetism) does not equal goodness. The Dark/ling (I have no idea if the names will show up in the tags so I’ll put slashes in the middle of them, wow this website’s features need revamping) always seemed…very entitled to Al/ina. There wasn’t any desire for them to become equals (even in a moral sense by dragging her down to his moral level or raising himself up to hers). His behavior and pursuit of her seems much more motivated by the idea of being able to congratulate himself on the fact that he’s “won” her. She’s more of like…a conquest to him? And maybe that’s a huge misread of his character on my part, but the Leigh, the author, HAS said in the past that some of the Dark/ling’s dialogue and actions were written as a way for her to make sense of and deal with an irl toxic relationship she was in during part of the writing period, so I…don’t think it’s a completely unreasonable interpretation? And that’s not to say that power imbalance ships should Never Be Shipped (because they can be genuinely compelling or even fun to watch under the right writer), and Leigh has even said that she Gets The Appeal herself.

But I think the reasons Tho/schei works for me where D*rklina doesn’t are because 1) Tho/schei have genuinely known each other for a long time (and even been on good terms for some of it) but the Dark/ling decides, despite being this all-powerful charismatic force who is hundreds of years old, to get pettily involved in a teenage love triangle in very little time which is a choice that makes absolutely no sense to me at all, 2) The Doctor is an extremely morally grey character, in a way that if they aren’t careful could easily match the destructiveness of The Master. They both are aware of this, and both of them believe themselves (in their own ways) to be “above” morality (The Doctor in the sense of “I know what’s best and my choices are law” and The Master in the sense of “My choices are law and I deserve to cause destruction and have complete control”. There are…not equal, but similar enough levels of moral ambiguity that it makes sense to me that they still Get™ each other. The Doctor also likes Intellectual Challenges and Foiling Grand Plots, to the point where it’s often the Most Important Thing, and The Master not only provides those, but enjoys the conflict as well, and 3) They actually are close to being equals. They’re both very smart, powerful, immortal. Obviously The Doctor has Much More Life Experience and a more extraordinary legacy because of the Timeless Child thing, but Missy’s primary goal was simply “I want my friend back” and Dhawan!Master freaked out because it was impossible to see them as equals anymore. The Doctor, as per Twelve, wants the Master to be good because they’re alike in a way no one else in either of their lives are. They kind of…want the same thing but in different ways, whereas The Dark/ling, while understanding The Burden Of Power, doesn’t actually want the same thing Al/ina does.

And that relationship between D*rklina could still make for a fascinating dynamic, and one that in another life I might even be into myself if not for the whole “reducing it to Good Girl Saves Bad Boy” trope that I keep seeing within a good deal of the fandom. Not that a general fandom reaction or misread should prevent anyone from enjoying something, but I’m so tired that it’s nearly impossible for me to separate them at this point, lol. Ultimately it boils down to the fact that they seem like such fundamentally different people that I don’t personally see how they could ever truly find common ground or genuinely appreciate their similarities. I think the most interesting exploration of a romantic bent to their dynamic would be in a context  where they are so different and recognize that they’re so different, and they might want to focus on their similarities, but it’s not enough. There could be this undeniable pull between them, but what does that really mean when held up against who they are and how they choose to interact with the world? And then having to deal with the necessary antagonism that results. I guess I see the existence of this ship as like…more of a thought exercise than anything I would ever want to happen in any way other than a one-sided attraction on his part, or that could ever truly be narratively justified. But also like…I hate him, so that makes it kind of hard for me to want to explore it in any way at all. Which that’s a personal thing. Other people like this character, and I’m genuinely happy for them that they can see something I don’t.

UGH, I’m sorry this got so long. This is what happens when I have an urge to Share my Thoughts.

I totally understand your feelings and I think the show did a good job on not only humanizing the D*rkling, but also making the relationship more palatable. I, mean, I’m sure we can partially blame Mr. Barnes’ soulful eyes, but I definitely got the impression that, while the D*rkling wants to use Alina for his own gains, he is very drawn to her as THE Sun Summoner, as in “we are linked and will inevitably be the only one for the other”, he basically tells Mal as much.

And I don’t blame you for losing interest in them because of the fandom, it can be very frustrating, especially if one of the characters didn’t appeal to you in the first place (I mean, I’ve been there, hello R*ylo, lmao)

I think I get what you’re saying about how this works out in the books and how what draws me to D*rklina isn’t necessarily textual. And I think I might have went in a little biased when I watched the show, because, before I did, a friend told me she was getting Thoschei vibes from it, but didn’t especify where, So I watched and there it was: M*lina… okay, school best friends, us against the world, but in general, eh, they were too “perfect” (as in, no real conflict between them). And then D*rklina with everything I said on my original post. I mean, I was looking for a thoschei-like dynamic and I found one 😂.

I’ve read some spoilers for the book, so I know my whole “200 years later” fantasy doesn’t happen, so I agree with you, this ship is more of a thought exercise. But I think the show sets it up in a way that is Just My Thing, whereas the book is more straightforward with how incompatible these two are, romantically. But the fandom will ship away, even in kinda blergh ways, it’s how it is 🤷

[ickle-ronniekins]

For your writing project about falling in and out of love: I fell in love with a friend (not a close one) I had known for about ten years and I had a crush on him for almost that long, yet I was always too shy to tell him. He was a year older than me and very funny and talented. I remember always laughing really hard at his jokes and when I look back at my favorite moments from high school and middle school (which were some of the darkest years of my life), a lot of them involve him. I always used to always tell myself I couldn’t possibly fall in love with him until after we at least started dating, but there was one day when I watched him perform a song on his acoustic guitar at a concert and it literally felt like we were the only two people in the room, even though it was packed full of people, and that was when I knew I had fallen hard. We were in a few musicals together and were cast as love interests a few times. Though we never kissed or anything for those roles, but I always loved being on stage with him and being able to hold his hand and say all those things that I secretly felt but was too shy to say to him. There were a lot of instances where I accidentally moved towards him during a scene when I was supposed to be standing still or a couple times when I almost kissed him during really charged moments between our characters. I remember once when I held his hand (the first time I did after realizing how I felt about him— there’s a lot of opportunities to hold people’s hands in theater!) I literally felt like fireworks were going off, the same way you feel when you kiss someone.

Part of the reason I never told him was because by the time I got close to working up the nerve, he had a girlfriend. To this day, she was one of the kindest people I have ever known. I didn’t want to disrupt anything because I really cared for them both and wanted them to be happy, even at the expense of my own happiness. I tried to get over him a few times when he was dating her but it was almost impossible whenever we would hang out with our friends, and I always wanted to be his friend if nothing else, so I would bury my feelings. Their relationship really wasn’t the best (they managed to bring out some of the worst aspects of one another) and broke up, but even then I couldn’t feel happy about it because I knew he was hurting and I didn’t want to make a move when I knew he was grieving his relationship. By the time I worked up the nerve again, he started dating a different girl and I felt like my heart had been smashed into a million pieces... but even then, I could seem to get over him. I would get drunk and cry about him at parties and I didn’t believe anyone who told me that I could do better or that I would meet someone better suited for me because it didn’t seem possible... and then the pandemic happened.

The pandemic put a barrier between us and was a very physical sign that made me slowly realize we would never happen as a couple, which was a difficult thing to comprehend. I have always been a romantic and believed in soulmates. By this point in my life, I had convinced myself that he was mine and that it was only a matter of time before we got together, and it was always really easy to slip back into that mindset whenever I saw him again, but with a pandemic disrupting everything, it was easier to actively resolve on getting over him— at first, it was more tabling the idea of getting together in the nearish future but resolving to be with him if things worked out much later in our lives, like in a very rom-comesque way. When I started committing to that, I slowly started to love myself more and realize I had incredibly low self esteem and had overlooked some of his more glaring flaws because I didn’t believe I could find someone who watched my exact standards. I began to understand that we were just also incompatible with one another— for example, I hate being late to the point of showing up incredibly early to things in order to avoid it, whereas he habitually shows up an hour late to just about everything with Starbucks; I always told myself that I could change him, which I know now was an unfair expectation. As time went on and I slowly realized my worth, I also came to realize that even if he were to ever ask me out, my answer would probably be no because I was now just a whole different person who had grown up.

But the falling out of love process was an incredibly painful one. I cried myself to sleep a lot of nights. Like I said, I really thought he was my soulmate and that we were really destined for one another, so when I understood that we weren’t, it made me cynical about the whole concept of love for a while because it felt like everything I had ever known about it wasn’t real and that I had been stupid for being so naïve. I was angry with myself for a while and angry at him, too, because I was hard for me to comprehend that I was falling out of love with someone who hadn’t done anything wrong. I had been so convinced that my love for him was so strong that it would take something monumental, like him suddenly revealing himself to be the antithesis of what I thought he was (ex. a cheater, abusive, racist, etc.) for it to ever shake, yet he hadn’t done anything. He occasionally made some poor decisions (like an ugly tattoo or smoking) but it wasn’t anything regarding his moral character that changed who he was. It was me who was really changing and maturing.

I’ve only seen him once since falling out of love, and there were still those lingering feelings of my teenage self lurking beneath the surface. It really threw me off and I found myself distracted by his hands as he played his guitar and my heart would beat fast when he would talk directly to me or blush, but I was more clear-headed than I have been in a long time, almost clinical. I was able to think through my answers to his questions without stammering them out and I was nowhere near as nervous as I once was around him. Part of it might just be my own growth, but certain things he did that I once would have been swooning over didn’t affect me at all. I was upset when I went home because I wasn’t as far along in my moving-on process as I wanted to be and I definitely cried to some sad songs that night, but in the end I was grateful for it because it felt like a check-in to gauge how far along I really was. Back then, I was still in sort of a “maybe one day” phase; now I’m in a “probably not”. I think there’s still a part of my teenage self inside of me yet that still loves, but every day that goes by, I feel less and less like her and more like an adult.

I still sort of feel cynical about love but the one thing that has helped me is reminding myself that I will fall in love again someday with someone who will love me back and he will be right for me. He’s not going to be a perfect person by any means but we will be more compatible. I know I haven’t met him yet but I am really excited to meet my person, even though for the first time in my life I’m enjoying being single. I’m also loving the person who I have become and all the growth I’ve made— for example, a month ago I would have cried while writing and reminiscing about all this, but I didn’t get teary once! As hard and as agonizing as it was at different points, I’m so glad all of it happened because it made me who I am today.

Sorry for writing an entire novel here, I hope it was useful for what you are writing! Have a wonderful day my lovely, I hope this helps you write whatever wonderful thing you are planning!!!! 💜💜💜

this. this is just about the most beautiful thing i have ever read. oh my goodness gracious.

can i tell you lovely anon, that i could physically feel your growth within every single word? the way you described your friendship with this boy in the beginning... it reminded me of how i felt about a boy when i was a teenager. i was head over heels for him, though i never admitted it to myself until years later, after we stopped talking. your feelings felt so genuine and pure and just about every lovely thing you’d expect from a teenage romance. and as i continued reading on through your story and found myself heartbroken for the both of you, i can see just how much you’ve grown -- not only in the sense of recognizing that he wasn’t the one and letting him go, but also realizing your own worth and what you want out of love.

i felt so deeply every ounce of your heartbreak. i remember the boy i loved was with someone the entire time we were friends. i met him when he was in a relationship and we stopped talking just a few months after they had broken up. they were together for years, and i loved him every single second of every single day. that was over ten years ago now. sometimes i think of him and wonder how i’d feel if i ever saw him again. sometimes i feel like a sixteen year old again when he creeps into my thoughts. the nerves sometimes trickle back too, but he’s married now. i didn’t realize it until after we had stopped talking, but i so desperately wanted to be with him, and i was broken for years afterwards realizing we never would be.

please, do not apologize for writing a novel. this is exactly what i was looking for. thank you for being brave and sharing your story with a complete stranger. i’m just in awe of you as a person and your outlook on love.

i have such a difficult time telling myself that i’ll find the right person and he’ll love me and i won’t have to doubt anything. it’s something i struggle with every single dang day. but your words have moved me. you absolutely will find the right person, and he’ll love you and every single thing about you, and you’ll remember this boy who you loved when you were young and remember why you two never ended up together... because the one you’re meant to be with is getting to you as fast as he possibly can.

UGH THIS IS EVERYTHING. it brought me back to years ago. thank you so very much for sharing. this was just so fucking gorgeous jegnolvadnsf i cannot.

[gettin-bi-bi-bi]

I don't know how to stop being so insecure when it comes to talking to boys or being with boys. I just don't trust them enough, and they make me feel so self conscious. I've been talking to this guy that I like everyday and stuff like that (he apparently likes me too) but sometimes I can't stop thinking that perhaps he's talking to other girls too, or his ex, or just isn't that into me (and I mean how can he if we can't see each other right now literally). +

I mean, even I get bored of the constant texting and phone calls. And tbh I was raised thinking that you can't be too available or easy with boys bc then they loose interest (which happened to me twice, confirming that theory) so now whenever I feel like I'm being too vulnerable or available I shut down (mostly when he leaves me on seen for a couple of hours, which I know seems childish but it makes me feel so insecure. I tend to overthinking every single thing). +

And I also don't know how other girls/boys do it, always finding something different to talk about bc I literally blank out and don't know what else to say. I've never been in a relationship so perhaps that's also it. I'm terrified of being the one to fall for the other person first, of being the one more vulnerable; the one who feels the most for the other person. I've never been in that situation and I don't want to. +

I’ve been waiting a while now but I think the last part didn’t get through. Feel free to send it again for clarification if there was some more important info in it. But I’ll try to give you some thoughts and advice based on those three messages.

If you want to get less insecure I guess it’s important to figure out where that insecurity comes from in the first place. And obviously that can be many little things that add up. From what I read in your messages you seem to be struggling with your self-esteem and almost can’t believe/trust that someone really likes you when they say they do. You can only get over that by working on your self-esteem and learning to believe people when they say they like you or are interested in you. And that can be a long process that does involve vulnerability as well as moving towards the edges of your comfort zone. Maybe it could even involve therapy if you want to give that a try.

Rejection is part of life, unfortunately, but that also means you have to learn how to deal with it in a healthy way. It’s also a little bit of a desensitisation thing where experiencing a negative thing will (ideally!) show you that you can get over it and survive it - so next time a similar thing happens your brain goes back to the previous experience and goes “I survived that before, I can do it again”. But sometimes for people who struggle with mental health and/or self-esteem that mechanism doesn’t work.

And you mentioned some bad experiences in the past where people lost interest in you but it seems that made you even more insecure instead of leaving you with a valuable lesson. But that’s really not your fault. Either those guys were assholes who didn’t like a woman who is more open about sexual desires? Or they just sensed an incompatibility. And in that sense they really did you a favour because someone who’d drop you after you are “““easy”““ is really not someone you’d want to be with anyway. If you’re a woman then this sort of behaviour from men (and being taught that stuff from your family and friends) is pure misogyny and slut-shaming which is where maybe some sex-positive and queerfeminist environment could help you to feel better about yourself. Hurtful as the rejection may be you shouldn’t react to it by trying to change yourself and make you into a different person. Be yourself and eventually you’ll meet people who like you the way you are. Someone who only wants to play games and loses interest as soon as you show you want more isn’t worth your time.

As you work on your self-esteem that should also trickle down on that jealousy problem. You say you worry that boy you’re talking to might also “talking to other girls” and that made me pause a bit. Maybe because I have a bit of a different look on relationship things, I don’t know. But what really is the problem about him talking to other girls? Does “talking to” mean something much more committed these days than I think it does? I assume you mean you and he are being a bit flirty via text/phone? As long as you haven’t agreed to be in a monogamous relationship and as long as he didn’t tell you you’re the only girl for him or whatever - then he has every right to talk to other people. Not to mention that “talking to” doesn’t have to mean anything flirty or sexual or romantic. Even if he’s in contact with other girls he might just be friends with them. And he should be allowed to do that even in a committed monogamous relationship. (In fact I am highly suspicious of men who cannot be friends with women.) So though I understand that those jealous feelings are born out of a fear of rejection and low self-esteem that is something you will have to get over or at least learn how to deal with in a way that doesn’t sabotage your relationships. Trust your partner (or potential partner) when they say they like you or love you.

Entering any type of relationship involves trust. You cannot have a healthy relationship without trusting the other person and making yourself vulnerable. And if you’re not at a place in your life right now where you can do that then maybe you’re just not ready for a relationship and have to work on yourself for a while. I don’t know your age but since you talk about “boys and girls” instead of “men and women” I’d assume you are rather young. And I am not that old to not remember what teenage angst (or the leftovers of it that can stretch into one’s early/mid 20s, especially for queer people) can do to someone in terms of sexuality and romance. It sucks feeling like you don’t know ~how to relationship~ and some negative experiences can have a big impact if you don’t have the tools yet to handle it emotionally. So I want to also let you know that there is no rush. If you don’t feel like your mental health is in the right place for a relationship right now then you don’t have to force one into your life. Relationships can be a great thing but do consider them a bonus to life, not a must-have. I wasn’t emotionally stable enough to genuinely enter a relationship until I was 27 and looking back I am absolutely not feeling like I was missing out on anything in the ~10 years before because any relationship I could have entered during that time would’ve been a catastrophy.

One more thing which might seem a bit trivial at this point in my reply but whatever lol you say you don’t know how others keep finding new topics to talk about... first of all: it’s not just your job to find new topics. If that boy is interested in keeping a steady contact then he should also ~say something~. But really you would just talk about things that interest you. Maybe you can watch a movie “together” via discord/zoom. Something like that. But the burden of keeping the conversation flowing shouldn’t just be on you and if someone doesn’t put the work in then maybe they aren’t worth your time either. Which again, doesn’t mean you did something wrong. It means you know the value of your time and energy and feelings and if someone wastes any one of those then you better be moving on.

Maddie

[love-sapphirerose]

10 Toxic Anime Couples We Wish Would Break Up Already

https://www.cbr.com/toxic-anime-couples-break-up-worst/

What a feeling it is, to be in love. It's a popular belief that there's someone out there for everyone, a Yin to every Yang,  a lid for every pot and so on. The same can be said for anime characters and there's nothing like seeing two characters with great chemistry deciding they belong together. 

Unfortunately, not all relationships are created equal. In fact, there are many that are downright toxic. Incompatible, inconsiderate, mean-spirited, abusive, or just wrong on so many levels, here's some examples of anime couples that make you wonder why these characters haven't just broken up already. 

10. SASUKE AND SAKURA FROM NARUTO AND BORUTO

It's no secret that Sakura has been in love with Sasuke for a long time. It was even a dream come true for Sakura when the two were put on the same team together, but from day one the romance between them has always been one-sided. Sasuke originally had little to no interest in Sakura. Even after she admitted her feelings in tears, Sasuke seemed to care very little about her.

It continued this way even after Sasuke attempted to kill Sakura and yet despite that, the two eventually got married and had a child. Unfortunately for poor Sakura, Sasuke is a bit of a deadbeat who's rarely ever home to be around his wife or daughter. If their relationship has proven anything, it's that Sakura has the patience of a saint.

9. JOSEPH JOESTAR AND SUZI Q FROM JOJO'S BIZARRE ADVENTURE

The second JoJo may be a master of Hamon techniques and outwitting his enemies, but he has no understanding of romance or matters of the heart. Joseph met Suzi Q when he trained with Lisa and they were later married at the end of "Battle Tendency."

Joseph is guilty of being consistently inconsiderate to Suzi, losing his temper when she forgot to tell his friends he was actually alive and keeping her in the dark about their daughter's condition during "Stardust Crusaders." However, his worst act was during "Diamond is Unbreakable," where it's revealed Joseph had an affair with Tomoko Higashikata, who would bear his illegitimate child. They surprisingly didn't divorce, even after that. 

8. GOKU AND CHICHI FROM DRAGON BALL Z

Maybe this one was doomed from the start, considering Goku thought marriage was a kind of food at first. Goku may be DBZ's most powerful warrior, but his skills as a husband and family man could use work.

Goku's mind is focused solely on fighting and getting stronger, which leaves little time for things like spending time with his family or getting a job to support them. It's not that he doesn't care for them, it's more that he doesn't understand that they need him on a personal level. On the other side of things, Chichi's high expectations of Goku cause her to often lash out when she feels he's not doing his part. Between Goku's naïve, free spirit and Chichi's angry outbursts, it's clear they're just not compatible. It says something when even someone like Vegeta somehow makes it work with Bulma.

7. ODA AND KICHOU FROM NOBUNAGA TEACHER'S YOUNG BRIDE

A relationship between a student and a teacher is already bad. It's much worse when the age discrepancy transcends time itself. Oda is a middle school teacher whose life gets turns upside down when Kichou, a 14-year old girl from the Sengoku era, appears before him and reveals he's actually a descendant of the historical figure Oda Nobunaga and claims to be his bride. The rest of their relationship is summed up by Kichou trying to get Oda to make babies with her. 

It's about as uncomfortable as it sounds. Despite the fact Kichou is supposedly much older than her appearance, that doesn't take away from the fact that she looks like she's 14 and watching her try to force herself onto Oda feels wrong for so many reasons. 

6. KYOUSUKE AND KIRINO FROM MY LITTLE SISTER CAN'T BE THIS CUTE

There's absolutely no reason why these two should even be together. Kyousuke and Kirino have no chemistry. In fact, most of their interactions are just arguments and verbal abuse. Yet somehow, even though there were many girls that surrounded Kyousuke that would make for a better romantic interest, he ultimately chooses to be with Kirino for seemingly little reason.

Already it's a bad Tsundere romance, but addressing the elephant in the room makes this go from uncomfortable to extremely icky. They're also brother and sister.

5. ERIKA AND KYOUYA FROM WOLF GIRL AND BLACK PRINCE

To be fair, Erika did bring this on herself by lying to her friends that she and Kyouya, the most popular boy at their school, were dating. However, Kyouya takes advantage of this situation by going along with it, on the condition that she becomes his pet. The rest of this anime showcases just how sadistic and cruel Kyouya is to Erika, abusing her and humiliating her at every turn.

For some reason, over time Erika genuinely starts to love Kyouya and wants him to reciprocate her feelings, even though he continues to treat her like trash and withhold any kind of affection. If anything, these two are the very definition of an abusive relationship. 

4. SEJI AND MIKA FROM DURARARA!!!

This romance involves a love triangle with a severed head. That is not a joke. Mika fell in love with Seji one day. However, Seji had no interest in her. Mika didn't give up though, going so far as to stalk Seji and eventually get surgery to resemble the same severed head Seji loves. After finding out the truth, Seji accepts Mika but makes clear that he will ditch her if he ever finds the real head.

The reason these two just don't work as a couple is that there's no love between them. Seji doesn't care about Mika, he's just using her to replace the head of Celty while Mika is completely fine being used as long as she's with him. There's an obsession on one side and manipulation on the other.

3. LADD AND LUA FROM BACCANO

Every couple has their way of talking intimately to their partner, but Ladd goes a little too far with Lua when he describes the ways that he'll kill her. Anyone else would find the fact that Ladd is very clearly a psychopath horrific, but Lua is almost blissfully unaware of the situation to a disturbing level.

To Ladd, Lua is just his plaything. Love isn't the word one would use to describe their relationship, they're less like a couple and more like a kidnapper and a hostage with Stockholm syndrome.

2. ENJI (ENDEAVOR) AND REI TODOROKI FROM MY HERO ACADEMIA

There's a loveless marriage and then there's this horrorshow. Enji, also known as the #2 hero Endeavor, only really married Rei so that he could have children who had both his fire quirk and her ice quirk. His hope was for a child that could surpass his rival, All Might. 

The abuse Enji showed Rei and his children to reach this goal was violent, to say the least. A lot of it was left simply implied, but what is known is that it was so bad that Rei was driven to the brink of insanity,  and burned her own son. Shoto Todoroki. Afterward, she was committed to a mental hospital. All of this was the result of Endeavor trying to satisfy his own ego.

1. LOUISE AND SAITO FROM THE FAMILIAR OF ZERO

Louise and Saito are probably one of the most infamous examples of a Tsundere romance. After accidentally summoning Saito to her world from Japan, Louise makes the poor boy her familiar and proceeds to verbally and physically abuse him for any little thing.

Even though he's very clearly a human, Louise treats Saito more like an animal. Eventually, the two begin a relationship, even though nothing really changes in their relationship. Why they decide to stay together is a complete mystery, since their relationship feels both disingenuous and neither side does anything to earn the other's affection.

[one-of-us-must-be-crazy]

Ok forgive me bc this isn't even from your list but... technological quirks for Samuels? I was watching the good place and the AI character in that show gets "drunk" from proximity to strong magnets. Does he have any issues like that? Magnets, radio interference, etc. Can you dropbox into a synthetic's mind? Can he connect to bluetooth? All questions that plague me.

I HAVE SO MANY OF THESE. I ended up brain-blanking last night becuase it was A Day and also A Night but anyway. 

Samuels, like the later marine models in canon, can connect wirelessly to various devices and networks; which means that if there’s a system for it, he can tap into it, and both wreak havoc or do helpful things like turn the lights on or off. This is basically bluetooth. Once he turned off Ripley’s music after the third time Mr. Roboto came up on ‘shuffle’ in an hour. 

He’s automatically, partially due to the wireless ability and partially becuase of his heightened senses, knows if a person he’s talking to is a person or a synthetic.

There’s nothing that can make him drunk, short of overwhelming his systems. Not to be a complete romantic sap but Ripley does it to him sometimes, his sense of logic that sits at the forefront of his mind ebbs away enough for him to sound a bit silly, tipsy. 

Becuase of the way that his vocal system is structured, he can’t cry, sing very well, and it takes him a LONG time to be able to mimic anything that sounded like human laughter. The weird noise and motion he made when he first tried out laughing sounded frankly horrifying, with Amanda collecting herself quickly to try and smile encouragingly “That wasn’t bad,” “That was horrible.” “Yeah keep working on it.”

With few exceptions, he can’t deny a direct order from his owner. When Ripley talked (threatened) WY into signing him over, she had him write her in as his owner, as much as she hated it. Better he has to listen to her to take the trash out than WY ordering him to get rid of a risk to the company and snapping her neck. 

This is stolen directly  from the book The Mad Scientist’s Daughter by Cassandra Rose Clarke, but around the same time that Weyland Yutani started to make all models fully lifelike in appearance for purposes of sneaky and otherwise unsavory goals, a few graduate students thought it would be HILARIOUS to program the machines printing the soft tissues to include ‘blood’ vessels down south, among other abilities. And a lot of nerve sensors. After the shit he and Amanda went through the least they deserve is having the robot able to orgasm. Beyond that I don’t give a fuck. It’s fanfiction. It’s garbage fanfiction. Leave me be.

During the uses of this bit of coding, if one or both parties involved go too hard at it, his voice goes to static. He’s not damaged, but the first time that happened Ripley flipped out “ARE YOU OKAY?! CHRIS? CHRISTOPHER PLEASE–” “I’m….fine…sorry,” and he’s so ashamed of it at first, hating to show what he is so obviously in any situation, let alone when he’s with her, but she likes it. Once she finds out that he isn’t injured, that its just a quirk or a glitch, she gets very smug about it “I broke you :) “

Obviously he doesn’t get mental illness, but his mind processes their trauma by adapting security programs; he feels something like anxiety as his logic programs tell him that there could be something wrong, that there isn’t, but there could be, and that he needs to patrol their apartment. Rewriting this adaptation takes both personal effort and a lot of external reassurance from his new companion.

He has photo-perfect memory, almost like a film, of everything he’s experienced and can view or upload playback of it in video form. E v e r y t h i n g. 

I have no idea how long a synthetic’s charge lasts for, so I wrote that once a month or every other month he tops off his power with a short recharge, to avoid having to spend multiple days unconscious recharging when he runs out entirely. A hidden port in his arm can connect to a wire for either phsyical computer connections or charging. 

Androids have a power-save mode during which they’re only vaguely aware of external stimuli for the sake of self-preservation (and of their operators, that should they be called on they can wake themselves and come to the humans’ aid). Internal temperature drops slightly, and processors slow down, while software programs shut down entirely. It’s similar to what a human would think of as ‘relaxing.’ Samuels uses this most nights to go to bed with Ripley. He wakes up from this with zero drowsiness.

Or of course there is a full shutdown, which is much harder for a synthetic to get out of, much closer to actual human sleep than power-save. Normally he’ll program if for a few hours, but only if he’s genuinely in need of running updates or diagnostics, or at risk of overheating, as he doesn’t like ‘leaving’ her alone for that long. During this, he doesn’t have any sound or vibration or the vague feeling that could be compared to a pulse, and Ripley tries to pretend that his more-or-less-dead appearance doesn’t bother her, so he can still wake up in bed like normal. 

Like any technology, a synthetic will eventually be out of date and incompatible with new updates. In theory his core processors and memory could be removed and replaced into a new body, and they’ve already done this once upon returning to Luna.  

Synthetics AI is adaptive, and while Samuels was already one of the “mistakes,” models that have become sentient during development, he’s very very VERY obviously Not Human the more you talk to him. Five, ten, twenty years after he’s been living like one however, he’s nearly indistinguishable from a human being in his words and behavior.

Becuase he can tap into wi-fi, he cheats at trivia games. Ripley could have killed him for it, but now they’re the champions at her favorite bar’s trivia night, and have won a lot of free alcohol, so she doesn’t mind.

I’ll post more as I think of them, becuase for some reason I feel like I’m forgetting a few of the main ‘rules’ I wrote. 

[activatingaggro]

It's been a couple of days, but I totally missed people reblogging memes, so: B, C, H, K, and S?

S: Any fandom tropes you can’t resist?

Enemies-to-lovers! Enemies-to-friends. Anything that hugely and dramatically changes CR.

Friends to enemies is a huge favourite, but only if they kiss. Sorry.

“These two characters are romantically inclined, but not admitting it, and oh no, now they have to share a bed / pretend to be married / publicly flirt or make-out, and O O P S, FEELINGS.”

This only never appears on tumblr because I’m classy. You’re welcome.

Platonic soulmates! Or those sitches where characters just click, instantly, with someone that they really, really, /really/ should fucking not have. I want the drama, the self-loathing, the spirals of mutual distress, because you just fell in love with the spy you’re supposed to capture and you’re still going to shoot him in the face, rifp.

Blood swaps. I don’t do magic anons, but please let it be known that I absolutely would write a long, massive thread with either of the birdrails having to successfully impersonate seadwellers, or with another character having to pretend to be a wildly different caste. I want the cultural shock, the privilege gain/loss, the struggle of looking in the mirror and seeing something totally wrong - or delightfully right, per society’s standards of behaviours - and the intricacies of caste behaviour.

“You’re incredibly important to me, but now I’m going to have to betray you, because MORALS.” Or vice-versa! Any situation where a character’s morals come up against their preferences, basically, and morals win out, and everyone has to deal with the backlash. GIVE ME CHARACTERS STANDING BY THEIR CONVICTIONS AND PAYING THE PRICE.

H: How would you describe your style?

HOW GROUCHY AM I TODAY IN DESCRIBING THIS is the real question. uwu

I put a lot of focus on narrative, and a lot of focus on minor details! I like to note what characters are paying attention to, and letting it (hopefully) say something about themselves: ID rarely notices people’s appearances unless they’re violet, or unless it’s in his face, and he misses a lot of details period. Sipara is constantly assessing if she can kill someone, and how. Riccin is constantly speculating on what quadrant they can fit someone in. Pheres is constantly assessing if he’s about to get killed.

My main focus while writing narratives is ensuring that you can strip all the names and still, hopefully, tell which character is telling the story! This is in roleplay. In writing, I try to put a lot more focus on the actual scenes, and a lot less focus on the narrative: my absolute ideal of style, for individual stuff, has to be WATCH THE ROOTS by Lionpyh, or pretty much any story of Isozyme’s.

Individual stuff where the focus is on a story rather than the characters, I really like crisp, clipped lines, and in roleplay stuff, I like longer, narrative-focused ones.

K: What’s the angstiest idea you’ve ever come up with?

Back when Pheres had gills as his default: he gets found out by a seadweller who collects mutants, and yanked into her collection, so he starts off a long-haul plan to escape that involves wooing her flush, but accidentally ends up genuinely falling for his own ploy in a fucked up stockholmian sitch. So Sipara finally manages to yank enough strings to get the info to come and rescue him, a year or so in, murders her way through the facility, collects Pheres -

- and he’s a mess, because oh, no, don’t kill her! She can be fixed! Don’t, don’t don’t -

And Sipara kills her, anyway, and they have a pile in the middle of this awful, bloody facility, and everything is terrible, and everyone is crying, and I think it eventually results in an incredibly ace, weird blur of , where the two of them dissolve into even harder codependence then they started off the blog with.

I have art of this somewhere on this blog, actually!

B: Any of your stories inspired by personal experience?

Pheres is directly inspired by the fact my definitive memories of my teenage years included a lot of my friends being exploited/harmed by significantly older men at 13-18 under the guise of ~*relationships*~, and our flailing attempts to figure out how to navigate romance/relationships in a context that was defined by that kind of abusive fuckery.

Pheres is subsequently a trashfire in a way that’s meant to examine and prod at that in a different context! How do these situations happen and exist in Alternian contexts? And if the foundation upon which you’ve learned to build relationships was fucked up from the get-go, how does that affect you as you grow older, and how do you learn to fix it?

And a lot of Pheres’s general encounters with his customers reflect negative experiences that I have had with folks, or that my friends have had with people, just amped up to fit the Alternian context. Someone who’s previously been civil getting in your face shrieking because WAS THAT DISRESPECTFUL, ARE YOU BEING UPPITY – gets twisted into a customer shanking him over something equally minor.

C: What character do you identify with most?

I deliberately don’t really identify with most of my characters, haha. It’s part of my IC-OOC barrier: I love them, and I love writing them, but the majority are morally incompatible with my own viewpoints, or have done horrific shit that can’t be overlooked in the name of identification.

With that said, the specific traits I put in that I hook onto the most:

ID’s general ennui towards strong emotions is something I relate to! ID finds it detrimental to himself, at points, and gets delighted over having strong emotions on the rare instances it happens - I, on the other hand, am just thoroughly disinclined towards them completely when it comes to myself. HARD LOGIC ONLY.

Which has led to interesting character gaps between my portrayal of ID and others perceptions of him, I think? I personally view his largest flaws as his lack of empathy and his history of fucking over everyone around him on a whim - a lot of people view one of his largest flaws as not emotionally connecting to his romantic partners. Different writers view different aspects of a character as relatable, and it’s neat to see.

Sipara’s temper issues! She’s got a (physical) parallel of my anger issues from when I was a baby, and the same levels of “I MUST CONTROL EVERYTHING”. She’s totally a feral goblin of a hellchild, but I find it #relatable, even while I’m like “yeah, girl’s batshit”.

Pheres’s general control freak issues, and his inability to disengage from people that he really should, because what if they feel bad? =:( Also, his general desire to take responsibility over everyone and shove them into his nest to be mothered, lbr here.

Riccin’s desire to just roll with the fucking blows when it comes to their interpersonal relationships.This has come up with Orivar, it’s come up with Videle, it’s come up with Gliese - if you push them, they’ll fold, because their focus tends to be more on “keep the peace” with friends and quads, moreso than “keep my own personal interests in mind”.

[dweemeister]

Mr. & Mrs. ‘55 (1955, India)

Guru Dutt’s Pyaasa (1957) and Kaagaz Ke Phool (1959) are cited by international film critics as some of the greatest films of all time, not just some of the best Bollywood (Hindi-language Indian cinema) has to offer. But to be forthcoming about my expertise, I admit ignorance about those two dramas, as my knowledge of Indian cinema remains a weakness. Non-English language movies hailed as international classics tend to be dramas, not comedies. Yet both require the same amount of cultural and historical context to understand, so what are these critics and historians doing? I will leave answers to that question to you, the reader; for now, here is a delightful screwball comedy and lighthearted social satire from Dutt, building and improving upon the flirtatious humor found in Baaz (1953; hey, I’ve seen that one!).

Anita Verma (Madhubala) is a young woman who takes every opportunity to leave her aunt Seeta Devi’s (Lalita Pawar) house when her crush, tennis player Ramesh (Al Nasir), is playing a tournament. Ramesh is more interested in the upcoming Wimbledon Championships than Anita, and brushes her off. Seeta, rolling her eyes towards her niece’s tennis star worship, is a hardline, self-described feminist who simply hates men – I am certain misandry is incompatible with feminism, but feel free to correct me – and attempts to impress upon her niece her sociopolitical ideals. But struggling cartoonist Preetam (Dutt) incidentally meets Anita, falls instantly in love with her (she could care less about him at first), and will eventually wreck Seeta’s best-laid plans. But before that happens, Seeta is looking for a man to marry Anita as Anita’s father’s will stipulates that she must marry within a month of turning twenty-one years old in order to inherit his fortune.

Also featuring in Mr. & Mrs. ‘55 are Johnny (Johnny Walker, a Dutt regular) and his girlfriend from his office, Julie (Yasmin).

To call Mr. & Mrs. ’55 a feminist film is a stretch that no one should be attempting. One hopes that the “feminism” (again, more misandrist than anything else) found in Mr. & Mrs. ‘55 is satirical, and not what screenwriter Abrar Alvi and Dutt actually believe to be feminism. As Anita’s auntie, Seeta is mistrustful of any men of any status, is suspicious of her niece’s activities outside of the house, and, ultimately, is scornful of a woman’s life choices if those choices do not adhere to the concept of feminism that Seeta herself has subscribed to. Though Seeta’s depiction cannot be described as damning, the character is confrontational, condescending, and manipulative not only to men, but later to Anita in wanting to secure even a fraction of her deceased brother’s fortune for herself.

Adding to the film’s questionable writing is a scene where Anita meets Preetam’s sister-in-law (Kumkum) about ninety minutes into the film – this encounter will eventually convince Anita that traditional married life is honorable, worthwhile. The sister-in-law, residing in the countryside, extols the sources of happiness in her life: tending to the homestead, the time spent with her children, and the company of her husband. She also adds that being on the receiving end of her husband’s beatings is just an aspect of their time together, and that she does not mind at all. This line comes from almost nothing and will be received as outdated. I profess not to know about gendered norms in India during the 1950s, but even then, such dialogue should have provoked some ire from audiences. Anita has a change of heart, and becomes more open to loving Preetam. This character development arrives too rapidly, sending another conflicting message about gendered roles that could have been prevented. This is reckless writing.

Yet if one can forgive these storytelling indiscretions, the two central performances are outstanding. Beginning with Guru Dutt, he brings an intensity – not in regards to sexuality or loquaciousness, but to how he commits just enough emotion for each comical or dramatic scene he appears in – to his performance that makes it difficult to look away from. Always charming and combining a social cynicism with his character’s artistic passions, Dutt, like in Baaz, is a well-rounded, excellent romantic lead who can laugh at his own travails. He might not be the handsomest, the fittest, or the most confident-looking fellow who ever graced a Bollywood film, but his acting discipline renders all of that irrelevant. But as Anita, Madhubala is given the most to do here as her character undergoes the most change from the film’s beginning and end. Anita comes of age here, moving from tennis star fangirl to confused budding feminist (at least, in her auntie’s ideal) to a young woman understanding that happiness is something that is found and understood for oneself, not defined by others, and is not interfering or devaluing the lives of others. Indeed, her happiness is expressed in regressive ways, but the inherent truth of a modest, introverted idea of happiness remains.

Johnny Walker and Yasmin’s characters are not necessary to the plot and their scenes make the movie longer than it should be, but this film would not be as enjoyable without them. As Johnny and Julie, respectively, they supply the film with comic-musical situations that one can’t imagine Preetam or Anita finding themselves in. They serve a worthy purpose, if ultimately tangential to Mr. & Mrs. ’55 at-large.

The strong musical score by composer O.P. Nayyer and lyricist Majrooh Sultanpuri is less vestigial; the songs appearing during almost all of the film’s dramatic highs. Ever broke into song while stalking your athletic crush while they were swimming laps at the pool? Well, “Thandi Hawa Kalli Ghata” (sung by Guru Dutt’s wife, Geeta Dutt – dubbing Madhubala) might be a familiar experience to you, but I doubt you had backup dancers and singers at that moment’s disposal. It is a romp of a song, let down only by the fact that I think somebody needed to teach the extras how to properly dive into a pool (simply leaning and falling into a pool does not count). “Jaane Kahan Mera Jigar Gaya Ji” is for Johnny and Yasmin as they begin their courtship. A few lyrics are repeated a little too often and could use some variation, but this is as fun and flirty as one could ask for. “Udhar Tum Haseen Ho” (Mohammad Rafi dubbing for Guru Dutt) appears once Anita has understood her feelings for Preetam – I mean, what did you expect, that she would fly out to Wimbledon to watch Ramesh? – amid cinematographer V.K. Murthy’s floating camerawork and use of chiaroscuro. A beautiful string line carries the flowing, ¾-time melody. It is a lovers’ waltz – in rhythm, if not in how the two lovers approach and move with the other.

With the music and the acting as convincing as Preetam’s sister-in-law’s talk with Anita, Mr. & Mrs. ‘55 is a pleasure to watch. But this praise comes with some reservation – that Guru Dutt and Abrar Alvi are not interested here in portraying genuine feminists or feminism. Their intentions in how the women are portrayed might be satirical, but this is never clear (perhaps that calls for a more conscious, respectful remake; I certainly think that satire and feminism can clash and coexist in a Bollywood movie). Nevertheless, Mr. & Mrs. ‘55 represents a triumph for most everyone involved (all of whom were to build off their work here and destined for greater films), offering ridiculously watchable entertainment.

My rating: 8/10

^ Based on my personal imdb rating. My interpretation of that ratings system can be found here. 

[littlestarprincess]

Also, um. . .possibly a bit TMI but wrestling with sexuality stuff / mental illness stuff / specifically my selfship with Bam under the cut; kind of messy real life stuff that I’ve been wanting to get off my chest a little bit, I don’t think anything too dark? But definitely potentially uncomfortable.

So, basically, about eight or nine months ago, I finally Snapped and admitted to myself that I’ve had a crush on this guy that I know very vaguely if at all for like . . . four years (though I guess with the passage of time we are now approaching Year Five of my having a horrifically intense crush on a strange grumpy probably-politically-incompatible guy; there are pros and cons but it still feels very alarming in general); for those counting, I’ve been open about shipping myself with Bam for about . . . two years, and secretly selfshipping with him for like . . . a couple years before that. If you go through my blog all the way to when I first entered the tag, you might see evidence of my liking Bam alongside a myriad of other characters from a few months before this, because I’ve always been Like That -- but I really seriously started selfshipping with Bam about a year into my crush on This Strange Guy (who I’m going to be referring to as Spidereyes from this point forward.)

It turns out that this is not a coincidence. This was, in fact, definitely me displacing my emotions for Spidereyes onto Bam in order to not deal with them. As one does.

So I guess this alone is not so bad. It might be a little creepy depending on how one looks at things, but I also have a very low threshold for creepy, so I dunno. It could just be that I think everything involving RL feelings is creepy and overwhelming and awful, because I’ve been . . . numb? For a really long time? And I’ve reached a point where I can like . . . talk (?) to Spidereyes/say hello to him when I see him instead of turning and walking the other way and just generally being very averse to him (and given that there’s a handful of people I react to like that who I definitely genuinely Do Not Like, sometimes I wanna tell myself that it’s just That and I don’t have a crush, but like . . . it’s definitely. A crush.)

And I mean, for the most part I can reconcile this with my ace/aro identity -- I’m still like. Mostly aro and mostly ace and this doesn’t actually stand out, because I do occasionally get crushes, they’re just like . . . super rare and it’s even rarer that I have a desire to act on them. I think this is the first time I’ve actually ever wanted to act on a crush that wasn’t motivated by other factors (potential loss of friendship, needing to prove myself to be mature/human, outright manipulation etc) but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have previously if those factors were removed . . . The problem is, a) I live here now, and historically my crushes don’t resolve themselves until I move towns. I recently bought a house so this is a permanent arrangement, and like . . . seriously, moving towns to avoid romantic feelings is probably not productive in the long run and b) I uh. Historically don’t get over people? Unrequited love isn’t a big deal to me, but like . . .it seems to be to other people, and I can’t like . . .force myself to “like” someone else. Even if I remove my code of honor from consideration, rebounding . . . would definitely be a level of self harm, because that’s how fucking repulsed by RL romance I am, much less sex. Like it’s cute when it stays between people who don’t have anything to do with me, but I can not maturely handle other people having crushes on me, much less like . . .actively getting involved with someone in that way. And I mean, part of this is due to like. . . shitty experiences in the past, and I’m working on recovering from those, but rebounding would still definitely be a Huge Fucking Step Back.

OFC some of the people who know I have a crush on someone who doesn’t return my feelings tend to really push me towards rebounding/finding someone new to admire, because of course when I like someone or something I can’t keep my fucking mouth shut |||orz So now certain people who shouldn’t know about these kinds of things know . . . .

And then there’s . . . the delusional part. Like, I don’t know if it’s just because I’m hyper aware of these things due to needing to be in the past, or if it’s like . . . seeing what I want to see, but . . . 

I know he doesn’t like me, because he asked out one of my coworkers, and I’m super not his type anyway. (He also rejected me previously, though I’m hesitant to use that as evidence of him not liking me because he was in a difficult circumstance at that time and like, in addition to people having tastes and preferences for romance, they should also be able to be like “yeah, I can’t do romance right now” without more being read into that. But I have other evidence of him not liking me so it’s a moot point!)

I know he doesn’t like me, but there have been . . . interactions I’m not able to parse as anything but romantic attraction. Which is frustrating? Am I just really dumb? I don’t know. But like, there are specifically interactions that got folded into my selfship with Bam previously because they were so difficult not to read as non-romantic (the most notable being one time when his girlfriend needed help at the customer service desk and I went over to them, and he raised his sunglasses to watch as I talked to his girlfriend. Which could have been any number of things, right? I just . . . am dumb. . . ) and then some that happened recently enough that I didn’t have a chance to dump them on Bam bc I was already accepting that I have a crush on him so now I just get to feel Delusional instead. All the time!!! But like, one time he came in and he was in a Mood (as he is pretty often? He’s a bit moody, and seems intimidating at first, but when you actually talk to him he’s pretty friendly and sweet. I think? I guess it depends on who he’s talking to. . . and I think he’s gentle with me specifically because he’s sympathetic to my unrequited feelings. Who knows how long that will last though haha since they’re not. . . going anywhere. . . ) and as soon as he saw me, his whole body relaxed and like . . .this isn’t stuff that could be an Act in order to Mess With Me (which certain people IRL are convinced must be the case) because it’s stuff that people don’t fake -- it’s stuff like his voice when he talks to me being close to tenor range but when he talks to other people around me it drops to upper baritone; he turns his body towards me when we talk and opens up, but if I don’t initiate conversation he remains tense and closed up and I don’t think that’s something that people keep a handle on when they’re manipulating people -- unless they’re like. Super skilled con artists. Which he’s definitely not. Like, PUA don’t even keep an eye on that kind of stuff.

I feel delusional just acknowledging things . . . and it’s weirder when I take into account that other people have seen him giving me furtive glances. Like two other people, who also knew I liked him, but still just . . . I dunno. I’m not completely imagining things. I just can’t . . .parse them properly, and so it’s reading as crush like behavior, even though I know for a fact that he’s confident enough to approach people he likes (he was . . . kind of a player when I first met him, and again, he asked my coworker out recently (and got rejected, which I shouldn’t be happy about, right? But I kind of am) and I’m not his type and . . . I just don’t know how to deal with it.

And then on top of it . . . there have been at least two occasions in the last month where I’ve had a literal actual vision of him that was followed by him showing up so like . . . .hhhhhh not a good time for my weird relationship with ESP stuff to resurface but here we go . . . 

[ellescharacters]

ALMA /   60s  / open occupation open fc difficulty to fit in a wanted ad: mid

former war correspondent

got shot at in her mid 30s. got pulled out from the field and became a regular reporter - was pissed af about it

would make you look like a fool on tv in front of millions of people. also sit outside your office every day for as long as it takes for you to talk to her/answer her questions

in her early 30s she met a war doctor while abroad and the two had a kid they gave up for adoption 

met her husband in her mid/late 30s. got married. had kids.

idk what happened to the husband yet but.....

she was EXCITED AF to be living alone and have all of her children out of the house. she was ready to enter her silver years ya know? she spent her whole life dedicating herself either to her job or her kids and she never had a chance to kind of stop and say “who is alma?”. so she was ready to re-discover herself. maybe start taking painting lessons. travel... go on a cruise! why not! and then for w/e reason her grandkids (early 20s) had to move in with her and fuck!!!!!!!!! she loves them so much but fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

honestly will only bring her to the site if ppl will play her grandkids 

open /  late 50s or early 60s  / scientist  jeff goldblum  difficulty to fit in a wanted ad:  mid

parents had a lot of money. parents lost all of their money.  

he’s chill and hardworking af and actually doesn’t mind taking a step back and hearing other people’s ideas etc etc.... but people can be so incompetent oh my gdo!!!!!!!! it drives him up the wall

he’s probably a computer scientist / programmer 

twice or trice divorced

kind.......... of a neglectful dad tbh 

honestly will likely only bring him if i can have a couple pre-establish connections like his kids, friends, enemies, etc

VENETIA / 30s

PERSONALITY TRAITS: Venetia hates the idea of being average/ordinary, and has always she come off as this interesting girl who has a bunch of life experience (and she does, in a way) but in the end, she really is just /a girl/. her whole life is pretty much her showing the world how she wants to be perceived even though she’s a total lie herself. she tells at least 5 lies every day to make herself seem more interesting. 

POSSIBLE OCCUPATION: designer, waitress, bartender, gossip reporter, actress, burlesque dancer, flight attendant, model

Wendy / late 20s or 30s

PERSONALITY TRAITS: wendy was raised by hippie parents which... my god, she doesn't hate them but she also can't stand to be around them. wendy is: hardworking, sociable, guarded, liar, lonely, romantic, deep down a good person she’s just so stuck and wants more out of her life

POSSIBLE OCCUPATION: secretary, hotel maid, gossip journalist 

Genevieve (martha’s sister?)/ late 20s or early 30s / 

PERSONALITY TRAITS: a+ friend, romantic, outgoing, optimist, determined, dedicated, a little obsessive especially when it comes to romantic relationships. seriously wants a relationship she’s 100% in love with the idea of love and being with someone forever and she’s not ashamed of this at all. 

POSSIBLE OCCUPATION: editorialist, pediatric surgeon, art restorer, curator, pharmacist, radio personality, engineer, baker, restaurant owner

JOSIE /  early/mid 20s  / probs waitress or cashier probably  freya mavor idk difficulty to fit in a wanted ad:   low-mid

sociable, romantic, adventurous, impulsive, privileged, naive, kind, fun, brave, self-centred.

rich kid who threw a fit and walked out and has been living as a “”poor”” person for at least 7 months now. she started dating a boy she met at work and moved in with him and they are v happy in their shitty little apartment............ and he doesn’t know she’s rich but when he finds out he’s going to feel extremely played and like the whole thing is just a game to her. it’ll be angsty. they’ll break up but ~love will win~...... but it’ll be hard.

she’s not a bad person she’s just very privileged and so... clueless and naive about how the world actually works? also young, which... just adds more fuel to the fire lmao

*MALENA / 28-36 / bartender probably kate mara or krysten ritter  difficulty to fit in a wanted ad:  mid 

walking shit-show and i love her for it... a lot dont tho and i don’t blame them

has gone grocery shopping wearing her pjs under some oversized coat at some point. drunk girl in the bathroom who compliments you and tries to (poorly) braid your hair. queen of unprompted defensiveness. vice-president of the casual self-deprecating jokes club. uncertified sucker for the underdog. board games & bar games afectionado. spends way too much time on the "diy" section of youtube. wine AND vodka aunt. creative curser. not an excellent cook but makes the best burgers you'll taste in your life - also pancakes, in under 8 minutes. walking library of quick/lazy meals. low-key vague personification of "I can't wait for my friends to start getting married bc the idea of getting trashed on champagne, hitting on everyone and making speeches while two people I love commit to a life of monogamy is a strong one". has -0 idea of what she's doing and no idea how she feels about it.  

has like 4 half-siblings and 2 step-siblings and doesn’t get along with any of them bc that’s malena 4 you.

(one of her step-siblings is actually her half-sister NOT her step-sister bc malena’s dad and her step/half-sister’s mom were banging each other while they were still married. she doesn’t know this yet but regardless it’s fine everything is FINE)

( listen... malena’s relationship with her step/half-sister is actually deeply tragic to me and i adore both of them dearly - the  step/half-sister has known the truth for a couple years now but kept it to herself because she’s that kind of person - she’s good to the core and she’s been carrying this secret all by herself. she’s been trying very hard to have a relationship with malena ... sadly malena isn’t being very helpful. )

malena worked as an assistant to a wedding planner for two years. didn’t hate it. nobody believes it and she doesn’t particularly care.

genuinely good, kind, and nonjudgmental people are people malena low-key admires and looks up to. if one of them becomes her friend, she’ll literally fight for them if it comes down to it. honestly malena’s self-preservation is very very high so when she does let someone in she’s 1000% ride or die for them. 

people have the tendency to just.... open up to her / talk to her and she doesn’t know why!!!!!!!!!!!! she doesn’t even ask them anything she’s not even nice !!!!!!!!!!!! stop this nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bc then she starts low-key getting invested

she always feels the need to defend/prove herself. basically, she never learned how to express herself in a healthy/normal way. she misjudges people's intentions and words more often than she should, but she's always so worried about protecting herself that she can't help it. also she has pretty impulsive knee-jerk reactions when it comes to any kind of abuse/bullying.

malena isn't a commitment-phobe; she's a repressed hopeless romantic in denial and she's been that way all her life but she only started truly realising it a couple of years back. she low-key wants to be showered in love and be able to love someone like that in return, but she's cultivated an image of herself that's incompatible with this. she has always worn her individualism as a kind of weapon and she’s conditioned to associate backtracking with weakness, so, yeah, she's been struggling with living for herself as opposed to the image people have of her.

i'm sure she's still on good terms/friends with some of the people she's gotten involved with in the past because she really isn't a petty person in this regard. (pseudo-)exs on good terms, (pseudo-)exs on bad terms, messy relationships, flings, something else entirely... i'm open to all things. 

literally every relationship or pseudo relationship she’s been in has been a shit show. often comical. still a shit show.  (like that time she dated a guy who was in a long distance relationship and he literally forgot he had a gf. or that time she got involved with some sort of bruce wayne wannabe. or that time she dated a violinist - violinists have.. issues stay tf away from them. or that time she dated an indie movie director who was an absolute mess of a person. fun fucking times!!!!!!)

started sleeping with her boss and may or may not have feelings for him.......... and he just found out he has a kid from an ex ....... a 13 year old kid..........please kill her

*EVELYN /  late 30S or 40S  / actress probably amy adams or rose byrne if she’s not taken difficulty to fit in a wanted ad: mid-high

was adopted around age 10 by some rich couple who really only adopted so they could get extra brownie points within their circle of friends…… but they didn’t want to adopt a baby because that’s just too much work ya know? this doesn’t mean that evelyn wasn’t loved because she was - she is - and honestly her parents never demanded any more or less of her than they did of their other biological children. her brother(s) often joke that she’s actually the favourite child because she never had a rebellious phase and she’s always been extremely appreciative of her parents.

(she has a sister who is 5 years younger - they were put up in dif foster homes and... it’s complicated. evelyn could have fought for being closer to her sister but didn’t, primarily because she was told her sister had a better chance of getting adopted - especially if she was lone. they haven’t seen each other in over two decades if my math is correct)

took like, a bunch of extracurricular yet somehow never fucking learnt how to swim

very polite and politically correct, one of those people with perfect posture. pleasant to be around but doesn’t socialise or share a lot about herself and her life which can really make her seem either fake and/or stuck-up and/or too serious -  actually just very shy by nature.

she’s often misunderstood by people who don’t know her well, or by journalists who don’t actually take the time to sit down and talk to her.

some people probably think she bought her career but 1) her parents are rich, snobbish, and pretentious but they literally couldn’t care less about the entertainment industry tbh & 2) they’d never buy their children a career bc they believe that if you want something you work hard to get it  

her career is a mixture of amy adam’s and jessica chastain’s.

the parts she picks are all very carefully chosen (and lbh when she first started she could afford to do this bc it’s not like she had to worry about money even tho her parents weren’t exactly supporting her). she probably started being credited in movies while she was still at college, but they were very small parts. it took her a long time to break-out because did a lotttt of theater at first but the parts she picked were always those small/supporting roles you know will lead you to the big ones one day and that’s exactly what happened. for those who didn’t follow her career she seemingly just.... showed up out of nowhere and jumped straight into the spotlight but she was like 32 when this happened and already had several movies under her belt.

her fiancé cheated on her one time and it’s a whole ordeal bc everyone has a god damn opinion about it but it’s... complex. the cheating was obviously all his fault but there was a lot of miscommunication happening and now... now she’s the one not cooperating. it’s very angsty and there’s lots of ups and downs and very happy moments and extremely sad moments (and they might end up taking a break at some point) and everything is a thousand times worse when your life is splashed in the front page of magazines. they do love each other very much, and that kind of makes everything worse. i have a whole plot written for it lmao

*GAVIN / MID OR 30S / firefighter or cook or smth else open fc difficulty to fit in a wanted ad:   mid

As a kid Gavin had a massive attitude problem and serious unresolved issues, but once he was determined to get over them he never looked back.

He was never a genuinely bad person, it’s just that the environment in which he was raised, especially in his teens, gave him a very wrong idea of how a person, especially a boy from his social class, should go about in the world and conditioned him to act in a certain way. Even if he did help around the house a lot (honestly he was kind of a fiona gallagher in a way) he was raised (not by his family in particular but the community as a whole) with a very stereotypical notion of what boys are supposed to act like. I don’t think he ever thought too much of it, if it was right or wrong or just plain backyards thinking, it was just his reality.

He went through three decisive moments which essentially shaped his life. The first one was his mother’s death, he was around 7 and he processed it the way a young boy raised in the environment he was raised in would, plus he had a slightly older brother and it was easy to just follow his footsteps. Close as they were, their bonding was often over the wrong things or in the wrong way, and while they were already close as young children after their mother’s death they became even closer and that was also the time they started taking the art of being troublemakers to another level.

The second one was not going to college. He made it there, and on a scholarship (and he was a year younger than most of his peers and all because he got into high school a year earlier), but pretty much blew that and just walked away back home. For a while, particularly while he was trying to get his shit together, this was a part of his past that deeply disturbed him and he beat himself up about it constantly but eventually he reached the conclusion that stupid as his actions were they got him where he is, so he sort of feels like it just had to happen.

The third one was his eldest brother’s death. He died in a bar fight, or more accurately after it, and Gavin was there and he was involved. His brother’s passing really made him go off the deep end - extremely bad decisions were made during that time and a couple of those landed him in juvie. Even though that’s obviously not a good thing to have on your CV, or to just share with anyone let’s be honest, it truly the only time in his life where he seriously acted out, crashed, and then was able to evaluate himself, and angry as he was when he initially got there, being surrounded by people who had done worse things than him only made him realize that their situations and futures weren’t things he wanted for himself - they weren’t things he wanted to conform himself to.

Easier said (or thought) than done, however. He didn’t have any money of his own when he got out, nor did he have proper support, and on top of all of the things he had left on hold prior to going to juvie his half-sister also started getting herself into serious trouble. It’s not easy to get out of the place in which he was raised, either you’re lucky or risk it all or the circumstances just aren’t in your favor and no one is really rooting for you. He had some street debts to pay (both his and his brother’s), he had actual bills to help paying… it just wasn’t a good situation.

So he got a job and spent years just trying to do what he had to do to get people off his back (and it was around during this period that he started cooking at one of his jobs in a shitty joint). When he was 22/23 he nearly landed himself in jail because of his half-sister - at that point she was really young, she didn’t have a record and he didn’t want her to mess up her life so early on and potentially in such a permanent manner. Luckily he got away with community service (and his service included working with food). His half-sister apologized to him a lot, and she was thankful, but she didn’t really do anything to change her behavior. This whole affair was essentially his final drop; he was absolutely done with that whole environment and his situation, and he realised that he needed to go elsewhere, do or try something else, because if he stayed as much as he wanted to turn his life around it wasn’t going to happen.

Currently lives with a coworker but for a while he lived with an old acquaintance who used to be extremely close to his eldest brother (and by extremely close I mean, more than friends extremely close) and who was still up to his old tricks but he was very welcoming and didn’t bother Gavin in the least. Plus they had opposite schedules which Gavin found perfect because for most of the time he felt like the place was his alone (which was extremely important because it gave him time and space to develop and better himself as an individual).

He’s just a guy living his life not thinking too much about things or worrying about the future. He doesn’t trust easily though and he’s often suspicious of people’s intentions. 

PS: low-key really want a “we had a crappy blind date and ended up just having sex and it’s been about a month and i just got a text from u and wait what you’re pregnant??” plot for him

*ELEANOR / MID 30S / radio show host or uni professor, probs  both tbh   probably gemma arterton or olivia munn  if she’s not taken difficulty to fit in a wanted ad:   mid

"Sunday morning with a slight hangover in the gym with no makeup on.... not going to get off this treadmill but I am considering putting my sunglasses on." that’s the eleanor #mood

if hogwarts was real, she'd have been sorted into slytherin (which is obvs a v important detail).

she's the legal guardian of her niece and nephew. she had a twin sister who died she and her husband nominated her as legal guardian of the kids - she's still learning how to handle/process this. 

(she... never liked being a twin, she actually hated it and she and her twin lead every different lives, but now that her twin is gone it’s... it’s odd and she’s dealing with it the best she can. she feels guilty in a way even tho she obvs knows their death was not her fault in any way)

she’s force of nature; a very well presented cocktail of audacity, resourcefulness, energy, and confidence. she likes to think she's just staying in her lane doing her thing but she's def likes to know what's going on and if you ask for her opinion you're certainly going to get an honest answer ¯\_(ツ)_/.

honestly she totally is a "when life gives you lemons...." person: sociable, determined, headstrong, practical, outgoing, super confident, unapologetic... she can be kind of selfish and pig-headed sometimes, and she does have trouble backing away from challenges... those are two of her big flaws. she doesn't like to depend on anything or anyone and she's afraid of investing in things that will lead nowhere

when she was a teen she occasionally often made questionable life choices... altho lbh she still does, although not as often and probably not as questionable.

she's engaged (i don't know exactly how long it's been, but it hasn't been over four years), but she's definitely dated/seen other people in the past. her current relationship aside, she likely was never in any long-term/serious relationships, but if you have ideas feel free to share because honestly i live for pre-established character connections and #drama/angst.   

*VALENTINA / mid30S / idk  probably diane guerrero if she’s not taken difficulty to fit in a wanted ad:   mid

a bit of a shy child, her parents immigrated to wales when she was 6. struggled a lot but never once complained - she was young, but old and skewed enough to realize that if her parents were leaving so much behind it was out of necessity not desire.  

her younger sister was only one year old when the family moved to wales (so she grew up surrounded by english culture and fully embracing it - way too much, at times), her older brother, who got to spend his 9th anniversary in a small and damp house surrounded by no friends and family other than his parents and sisters, gave their parents a very hard time by becoming moody and picking fights.

unlike many middle children, valentina didn't suffer from middle child syndrome - she didn't have the time to, anyway. when she wasn't struggling with her social life and the english language, she spent her time devouring books, cautiously exploring the city, taking care of her sister, and making sure her brother stayed out of trouble (and, later on, making sure that her sister stayed out of trouble as well).

her father died when she was 15 - he'd been feeling ill for a couple months, but it was a shock all the same. valentina and her brother had been arguing a lot then (for a variety of, primarily mundane, reasons) and their father's passing only made it worse.

with her husband's death, valentina's mothes decided that she owned it to his memory to be a little braver - life is short after all - and about a year later she ended up meeting a guy who............. was not.............. a good person...................... but he was comfortable in life and she liked him and she thought he could help her give her children an education etc etc etc

it started with microaggressions and then not so micro ones and the next thing she knew her brother was getting smacked for lack of respect. it wasn't the first nor the last time it happened, and at one point or the other everyone got to experience what the palm of his hand felt like against their cheek or the feeling of his long fingers wrapping tightly around their arm - she got her first bruise for speaking spanish. 

her brother’s girlfriend at the time was an absolute angel who helping out and with the help of her family they managed to have him kicked out in Easter. valentina's brother's girlfriend and her family offering their own house as a place for them to stay for as long as they wish.    

anyway she goes to college and she’s ends up studying abroad for a while and on her first day back, she walks into her home and is greeted by a man she's never seen before - her sister popping up from the kitchen with a smile, casually and cheerfully explaining the situation. valentina knows, even before she puts her bag down, that this will end poorly. he sounds charming at first but she's met charming men like him before, and when she asks him to leave it's when he starts showing his true colours (she's not shocked in the least but she is, in a way, surprised that he put up such a poor fight and that it took so little time for him to snap). she ends up with a black eye and a bruised cheek, he ends up in the hospital. her sister promises her it was the last time.

her current job as a diplomat is one she loves - she had a good mentor too, which helped - but she never dreamed that she'd end up where she is today - she could never have, it was a dream that was so unfathomable it never even existed - and even though she has always worked hard she never even worked to have the life she has, not exactly. she never did anything with any goals in particular in mind. her only goals were always to make her parents proud and not to become a statistic.  

optional: she’s in an unofficial love/hate relationship with either a journalist or another diplomat from another country and it’s.... complicated and angsty af

FRANK /  30s  / late night show host open fc difficulty to fit in a wanted ad:   low

all i have so far for him is that he is a late night show host. think trevor noah. probably was a voice actor at some point (or still is)

don’t have a lot for him so if im bringing him onto the site i def need to fit him in a specific plot

Owen /  idk  / idk open fc 

there was never anything special about owen, and (although it often made him jealous that his brother was more outgoing and less anxious) - he was just a regular middle class boy and he never felt the strong desire to be any other way. 

when he was in junior year he got into a car accident with his brother - the two were arguing about something stupid and the car swerved off the lane. since then, owen lives with chronic back-pain and his demeanor has changed significantly. he’s less approachable and more grumpy, in addition, he dropped out of college because of his anxiety which is something he’s very ashamed off. 

"eliza” (might switch to  a male character) /  idk  / idk open fc

✈ eliza was brought up in lower-class family in a lower middle class neighborhood. her childhood wasn’t crappy, her parents weren’t abusive, and she always had clean clothes and food on the table (sometimes it was hard, and the family certainly didn’t splurge, but her basic necessities were almost always met). neither of her parents finished college - her father dropped out and her mother didn’t even make it to college because her family didn’t have enough money to put her through it.

✈ eliza’s father, brian, is a first generation immigrant, her mother, karen, was born and raised in colorado. the two went to the same high school and that’s where they met and dated for a solid year before breaking up. they reconnected later (when they were in their mid 20s) at a mall where eliza’s mother was waiting tables and her father worked as a security guard. the truth about eliza's parents is that they clung to one another: the don’t hate each other, but they don’t love each other either, they never did. they stayed together primarily out of fear and concern that nothing better would come along - because it was convenient. they’re both people who could have gotten much further in life than what they did and, in many aspects, this is one thing that has always deeply bothered eliza. they never tried, they never pushed themselves, they never did anything for things to go any other way than the way they did. their conformism and apathy are two things eliza has always detested, and a part of her still holds this against them.

✈ growing up, eliza was very aware that she didn’t look like most people around her. in both pre-school and middle-school she was the only multiracial child. throughout her early years and teenage-hood comments and questions about, primarily, her eyes and parents were heard often - some innocent and curious, others less so. she’s not a stranger to maliciousness, bullying, and the direct consequences of ignorance, and saying that none of it never effected her would be a lie. her different looks and lack of monetary means always made her feel like she was at a disadvantage and she often felt jealous of her classmates and friends - of both their looks and possessions. not feeling comfortable to discuss these thoughts and feelings with anyone, eliza got used to process them by herself. this is something she still does to this day - she’ll seldom ask for one’s advice or input, and if she does, it’s because she truly values it. slowly and steadily, she began to use her insecurities as both a shield and a weapon - as ways of motivating her to move forward in her life, change what she could and make peace with what she couldn’t.

✈ her parents were extremely proud when she was accepted to not one but three medical schools. she was glad but their pride didn't feel like much. she didn't do it for them or with their help, it was all by her for her (besides, her father's inability to get an education and honor his parents efforts to pursue a better life is something that has never sit well with eliza, so his opinion concerning her education isn't one she ever valued a lot). money was a real concern but eliza took care of that all by herself as well: her good grades granted her a partial scholarship and throughout her years as as student she kept a job or two (even in summers). it wasn't easy, but nothing ever came easy to eliza, she never relied on easy - she was focused and determined and she knew exactly what she had to do to get where she wanted to.

✈ while eliza has always felt like she's the only person in control of her life, she's also always been well aware that, as a child and teenager, she was never someone who could afford to dwell on options and choose whatever she fancied the most. she either took what came along and made the most of it, or had to stay objective and practical. choosing to study medicine was a combination of all of those. it was practical, she didn't dislike it, it gave her good career prospects, and it was also an homage to her paternal grandparents - her grandfather was a doctor before he immigrated and her grandmother always talked about she wanted to have become a 'brain doctor'. while eliza's grandfather died when she was very young, eliza's grandmother kept all of his notebooks and she took great pleasure in going through them with her granddaughter.

✈ eliza’s main motivation growing up (and, perhaps, even today) was to not turn out like her parents. she doesn’t even consider what they have an actual life because, as far as she’s concerned, they’re exiting and not actually living. it’s frustrating for her, it has always been, especially because their decisions didn’t just affect their own lives but also hers (ie: she could have gone to better schools, lived in a better house, tried different hobbies, etc etc etc). in addition, even though they never accomplished anything significant and are the epitome of conformism, they often feel entitled to have opinions and pass judgment that eliza simply doesn’t tolerate. for instance, they often question her parenting (even before her daughter was born they already questioned whether or not she'd make a good mother, and they still grind her gear about her "handing over" the majority custody to her ex) and they were very vocal about their disapproval of her marriage, and what eliza hates the most and has trouble living with is that almost everything they said happened. (there are times where she finds herself wondering if they were right, not about the obvious things, like that she married too fast, but the little ones, like that deep down she said yes because just like them, scared that nothing better - or nothing at all - will come along.)

✈ she was 27, a surgical resident, and already a mom when she got her right hand's fingers stuck in a car's door. she broke three and ended up with nerve damage that prevents her from making specific gestures with a steady hand. so that, was the end of that. the injury rarely impacts her daily life unless she's like, trying to eat with chopsticks or has to sew something up. she's gotten used to doing a lot of things with her non-dominant hand though. 

✈ while defensive and often assertive, eliza isn't someone who likes to argue. it exhausts her beyond words and makes her relive her teenage years and the necessity to always defend and stand up for herself. while she was brought up in a house where it was almost always quiet, she spent a large portion of her early years listening to other people - primarily neighbors - arguing day and night. in addition, at college she shared an apartment with five very loud people who were always squabbling among themselves or with their significant others, which deeply irritated her. when it comes to her home environment and her relationships, she likes them calm and honest. discussions are to be thoughtful and polite, but if you get her going (and especially if you raise your voice to her) it'll turn out poorly - she doesn't back down, it's stronger than her.  

[deleted] MOIRA /  late 40s  /  head of the foreign desk LUCY LIU IF SHE’S NOT TAKEN   difficulty to fit in a wanted ad:   mid

war correspondent

got shot at

not a war correspondent anymore just a regular reporter

pissed af about it

will make you look like a fool on tv in front of millions of people

will be sitting outside your office every day for as long as it takes for you to talk to her/answer her questions

years ago (like, 20 smth) she met a war doctor while abroad and the two had a kid they gave up for adoption

honestly will likely only bring him if i can have a couple pre-establish connections like his the child she gave up for adoption, her ex, a mutual dislike with like a colleague or a politician, etc

NEAL /  mid or late 30S / hockey or football player probably manish dayal if he’s not taken

neal was born to an average middle class family and has two younger sisters. his mom’s a canadian maths teacher and his dad was an english cardiac surgeon who passed away when he was around ten.

he has dual citizenship which is…….. nice

one of his sisters is married and they’re relatively close, the other one got involved in a lot of bad things when she was a teen and it seems that no matter how much help the family provides she can’t move past her issues. neal’s sisters haven’t been in touch with each other for a handful of years now. even though his eldest sister’s decision to cut ties with their younger sister bothered him greatly, he too ended up sort of doing the same thing a couple years down the road when she cleaned his apartment of any valuables. she stills calls asking for money occasionally, which is… complicated.

about two years ago his mom started dating a grandpa she met in aerobics class. he finds the whole thing really weird and vaguely disturbing but just rolls with it.

neal finds that it’s important to have aspirations and goals but it’s even more important to roll with whatever the universe throws at you. life’s weird and ends too soon, the world’s a mess; don’t overthink things, just make the most of your time while you’re here.

he’s definitely not afraid of confrontation but he has no interest in nor patient for it - life’s too short for it in his opinion. he’s that guy that really doesn’t want to get into a fight but then his friend starts it and he’s like “god damn it” and he sticks by their side

he’s not loyal to a fault tho.  

even though she’s a very carefree, jovial, and relaxed person, he started to feel the weight of having responsibilities at a very young age (essentially since his father got sick), so he does get weirdly/crazy responsible and all grown-up when it comes to family and work matters, and he can be a bit of a dad with his close friends at times.

that said, he cares… but selectively so, which leads to him acting a little bit like a dick sometimes. he just has a “live and let live” attitude, buckets of self-esteem, and has never been one to spend too much time being sad or mulling things over.

he’s not one to chase after people: if you tell him “no”, he’s not going to hear “win me over”, he’ll literally just be like “k, cheers” and move on.

he’s only been truly in love once and she ended things out of the blue because she couldn’t handle his schedule and exposure & was afraid of commitment. it was gr8!!!!!!!!! totally did not fucking gut him!!!!!!

he’s someone who would really like to settle down for real but at the same time he’s not actively pursuing a serious relationship. most of the girls neal’s gotten involved with… he liked them but he wasn’t in love with them. he doesn’t feign interest, nor does he pretend to feel more than he does, but he likes to have fun and he isn’t going to wait around until ~the one~ comes along to start having fun. he doesn’t play games, he’s very honest about his intentions so if it’s just flirting/sex, you’ll know it. if he feels something more, he’ll tell you. occasionally he’s not being as clear as he thinks he is and that had resulted in some pretty awkward situations.

optional: he got married to an old friend at some point, they had a daughter, and they divorced a year after they got married. the press made a huge deal out of it. it wasn’t. they parted ways amicably and are still very good friends. the reason why they divorced is simply: his wife could tell that while he loved her he didn’t love her as much as he was still hung up on someone else, and she refused to be in a marriage like that.

[i-am-very-very-tired]

Director, Jon Hershfield, MFT Mindfulness and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for individuals and families affected by OCD, Anxiety, and related disorders Home About Us Services Free OCD Group Jon’s Blog Media Links Contact Us Previous Next HOCD (Sexual Orientation OCD): Part Four – Denial I don’t know if you’re gay. I don’t know if what you are experiencing is a fraud perpetrated against yourself, identifying as one sexual orientation while secretly being of another, and having both the insight to know it’s a secret and the pre-meditation and masochism to keep that secret from yourself. All I know is this – if you are obsessing and engaging in compulsions, it will fail to bring about certainty. The word “denial” is at the root of all forms of OCD. It is popularized culturally to relate to issues of sexual orientation, but every person with any form of obsessive compulsive disorder experiences the fear of “denial” whenever they choose to do exposure instead of rituals. The compulsive hand washer who chooses to allow themselves to touch a dollar bill and then eat a french fry is sitting with the terror that they may be in denial of the cold hard fact that a molecule of someone’s feces may have made its way from the dollar, to the fry, to their mouth. The Harm OCD sufferer, who lives in a war-torn mind of horrific images of violence against loved ones, holds a baby in their arms and tries to breathe evenly while covertly contemplating whether or not they are simply in denial of their closeted sociopathic “true” nature. Still, nowhere does this word “denial” get tossed around more than in the context of HOCD, the obsessive compulsive fear of being or becoming a sexual orientation not your own. So what is denial? This? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsVpdBIi1BU Unlikely. Denial is actively choosing to behave in a way that directly opposes your values or beliefs without being aware of or acknowledging it. An excellent example of this is the character Milton in the film Office Space. He stops getting paid, loses his office, is completely rejected by everyone, yet shows up for work, and continues to clock in and out on time. He gets his revenge in the end, but the character is mostly portrayed as a deranged idiot. Somewhere at the core of HOCD is a fear that society at large will view you this way, as a deranged idiot who should have known what was going on. A person in denial in the context of sexual orientation is a person who repeatedly engages in gay sexual activities and refuses to acknowledge that any part of him/her has a same-sex attraction. It is not simply the behavior (many people of one orientation enjoy experiences of other-orientation), but the refusal to acknowledge the behavior that makes it denial. A man who sneaks off from his wife in the middle of the night to have sex with other men is not necessarily in denial. He may be fully aware of what he is doing and simply making a choice to do so. We might say a woman who repeatedly blacks out after a night of binge drinking and misses work, but refuses to acknowledge the role alcohol plays in her getting fired, is in denial of her alcoholism. Still, there remains some problems with attempting to define denial. First, the term is laden with connotations popularized by psychoanalysts, springing from a theory of psychology that hinges on the idea that people suddenly discover who they are after relieving themselves of repressed thoughts and feelings. This translates into pop culture commentary such as “he’s in denial” without the term actually meaning anything other than “I think that person’s gay.” Second, obsessive compulsive disorder involves a deficit in tolerance of uncertainty, so when we try to define “denial” as the state of purposefully disregarding one’s genuine desires, it becomes a frustrating endeavor. What does genuine mean? How can we be certain that the thought about an act is different from the desire to engage in the act? An easier exercise would be to identify what denial is not: Denial is not: Choosing to disregard thoughts, feelings, and sensations associated with another sexual orientation Pursuing relationships of meaning and value despite thoughts and feelings whose content seems incompatible with this pursuit Committing to relationships you are invested in despite the presence of doubtful thoughts about sexual orientation Accepting the presence (without guilt, disgust or fear) of sexual fantasies outside of your historically preferred orientation Letting go of seeking reassurance about your orientation Accepting uncertainty regarding your sexual orientation and the label that goes with it Love and HOCD One common concern among HOCD sufferers is that if they choose to accept uncertainty and stop doing rituals, they may discover that they are gay and that discovery will result in a revelation to their loved ones that they have been lying about their orientation. The fear thrives on an image of a tearful husband or wife feeling deceived, tricked, lead on a long and ultimately meaningless journey to middle age alone, the victim of a fraud perpetrated by the a fool who couldn’t come to terms with their homosexuality. In other words, “I can’t just be with this person I love if there is any doubt as to the meaning of these gay thoughts, so I must get certainty to protect my loved one from a future betrayal.” To the contrary, cognitive behavioral treatment for HOCD when there is a significant other involved must include exposure to the idea of denial and the way in which it could destroy the other person. HOCD becomes a form of Harm OCD in this way. So in addition to imaginal scripting exposures in which the sufferer could write out the feared consequences of persisting in gay denial in a relationship, the sufferer should also do exposures to strengthening their relationship. By investing more fully and more completely in their love for their significant other (despite sexual dysfunction that may have occurred due to OCD anxiety), they are getting both exposure to the fear of destroying a loved one and, as an interesting side effect, a better, more meaningful relationship. In short, invest in your relationships in such a way that if they fail, it will be the most devastating. That is romance. Loving Your Friends People often write to me about their confusing feelings for their platonic friends (this is especially common in younger people it seems). Not to put too fine a point on it, but what often distinguishes our friends from lovers is whether or not we stimulate each other’s genitals. Much of the hallmarks of romantic relationships are congruent with platonic ones: mutual interests, unconditional respect, reliability, feeling good in the presence of each other, all of these experiences are indicators of healthy friendships. Because these relationships are essential for healthy functioning on a very basic level (friends help watch your kids while you’re outside the cave hunting mammoths), they become a source of anxiety. What if I lose my friend? This makes them an easy target for OCD. So while I can’t give you certainty about whether or not you are in love with your friend, I can tell you what HOCD sufferers often fear is gay denial and simply isn’t: Anxious butterflies in your stomach when you get a call from or see your friend Desiring physical closeness with a friend Having intrusive sexual thoughts about a friend (note: people with Harm OCD have intrusive thoughts of harming the ones they care about) Feeling love for a friend Feeling no one else can understand you like your friend Testing, Testing, One Two, One Two The root of all HOCD evil is testing. Testing means seeking out emotional or genital stimulation for the purpose of attaining certainty about your sexual orientation. This often comes disguised as exposure with response prevention (ERP) but is actually a wolf in gay clothing. What I mean by this is it’s a setup by the OCD to get you to think you are doing therapy when in fact you are just doing compulsions. Watching gay pornography and masturbating to it for the purpose of checking to see how easy it was, then analyzing how easy it was in an attempt to prove to yourself that you are definitely straight or gay is just a convoluted compulsion and has no chance of benefit. Exposure without response prevention is not OCD treatment. It is just responding to unwanted thoughts with self-reassurance and mental review again. Compulsively masturbating to different material, gay or straight, with the intention of proving something, will always backfire in the end. People who get stuck on this compulsion create a feedback loop of gradually conditioning themselves to become more and more stimulated by their fears, but, sadly, without getting to really enjoy any of it. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying sexual fantasies that feel taboo or are different in some way than the real sexual relationships you like to pursue. But compulsive testing often leads to hours and hours of desperately trying to feel aroused by something and then studying the minutia of your response to it, killing any chance of it being genuine sexual exploration. Was my orgasm as big as it is to my preferred orientation? Did my penis swell the exact amount, less, or more? Did my vagina respond the way it would to my husband? These are bait laid out by the OCD for you to do more and more compulsions. Only now they come with their own evidence, a mountain of gay porn and shaming sexual manipulation. If it came without the shame and without the analysis, it could be a beautiful thing. Exploring your sexual mind is as much an act of mindfulness as any. But like all forms of mindfulness, the value exists only in non-judgmental, non-shaming exploration, curiosity about what you find, not desperation. It’s like demanding your doctor keep running tests for a disease you fear and then using all the testing as evidence that the doctor must think you have it! Collecting evidence about your orientation by testing your reactions to sexual material doesn’t work. Evidence collected during the course of a compulsion is no more evidence than a confession derived by torture is a reliable source of the truth. Hello, Good Bi In the end, unless you are willing to do ERP to the idea that you may be in “gay denial” and so long as you remain committed to achieving certainty about (instead of confidence in) your sexual orientation, there will always be material for your OCD to bait you with. This is not a challenge unique to HOCD, though it often feels that way. People with contamination OCD eventually need to expose to the uncertainty over whether they are just trying to get away with being irresponsible or disgusting. People with Harm OCD still have to expose to the idea that they are just trying to blend in and not get caught being psychopaths. The obsession with sexual orientation and labeling it correctly may go on for years, decades, coming and going throughout your life, being addressed with and without therapy, lurking in the shadows, then pouncing with the threat of gay denial when you least expect it. Until you do exposure to denial, you are only scratching the surface. ERP specifically targeted at denial fears may be more nuanced or abstract than ERP to a fear of being gay. Typical exposures for HOCD fears may involve looking at triggering materials, listening to triggering music, and being around triggering people (all without doing compulsions of course). But for the specific fear of being denial, life itself is the trigger and exposure means committing to that life. This may mean following through on your plan to propose to your girlfriend, letting yourself enjoy a gay fantasy while having sex with your boyfriend, letting yourself really be moved by a homosexually-themed film, and so forth. In other words, be yourself in the moment and really commit to that self even when it seems disingenuous. Long Term Management – The Bigger Picture It may feel like this, but this is irrational and that’s what makes it comedy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyxqlA4rqaU OCD is a chronic disorder. No matter what level of mastery you develop, obsessions are going to show up sometimes and your instinct will be to engage in compulsions on some level. What this means is remembering all along that the bigger picture is tolerance of uncertainty and acceptance of the presence of unwanted thoughts. It is not the eradication of unwanted thoughts. HOCD sufferers often become disheartened when, after effectively crushing the obsession with CBT/ERP, somewhere along the line finding themselves taking the bait again. This is most often triggered by a fear that the essentially free and fulfilling life you’ve earned back from your OCD with treatment is really just a lie, a perpetuated act of denial. So it’s important to approach the fear of denial, whether it is currently at the forefront of an active HOCD obsession or the product of a brief lapse after getting better, with the same tools. Don’t buy in to OCD’s distorted logic that “because it came back, it must be the truth.” Kill two birds with one stone by immediately going back to the mindfulness and CBT tools that worked last time. By immediately returning to ERP and mindfulness tools, you not only put the OCD in its place, but you also get exposure to what may feel like an act of denial (Here I go again, pretending this is OCD). If you’re new to OCD treatment, get help in whatever way you can access CBT. If you are actively in treatment, use it to confront your fear of denial head on. If you have had treatment in the past, don’t be afraid to check in with your OCD therapist to get back on track. Booster sessions are a normal and healthy part of CBT for OCD. Consider this – we may define denial as running from the truth. If this is the case, then it is far worse to be in denial of your OCD (and not committing seriously to treating it with CBT) than it is to be in denial of whatever your OCD is talking about. While the consequences of your fears coming true are quite unknowable, to deny yourself OCD treatment has clear and predictable consequences. Jon Hershfield, MFT is a psychotherapist in private practice licensed in Maryland and California, specializing in the treatment of OCD. Follow him on Twitter and Facebook. Click here for HOCD: Part 3 Click here for HOCD: Part 2 Click here for HOCD: Part 1 By Jon Hershfield|March 22nd, 2015|Compulsions, HOCD, Mindfulness, Obsessions, OCD Information|214 Comments Share This Story, Choose Your Platform! Related Posts Permalink Gallery How to Respond to Unwanted Thoughts Permalink Gallery Relationship-themed OCD (ROCD) Permalink Gallery POCD Part Three: The Groin and Other Junk Permalink Gallery POCD Part II: Treating Pedophile-Themed OCD Permalink Gallery POCD Part I: What Is Pedophile-Themed Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? 214 Comments Jeff December 1, 2013 at 6:43 am - Reply This a great article. Everything you say makes perfect sense and it seems that people suffering from this and any form of OCD must have the courage to accept this total uncertainty. I won’t get into my particular case because I’m sure you heard it all before, but my questions has to do with the subject of getting treatment. The fact that HOCD doesn’t seem like a widely known form of OCD makes me incredibly anxious and I am terrified of actually getting misdiagnosed by a “specialist.” How do can ensure that you are being treated by someone who will properly recognize HOCD? I am very nervous about potentially meeting a professional and having them tell me that HOCD doesn’t exist for something along those lines. Jonathan Hershfield December 1, 2013 at 5:01 pm - Reply Glad you enjoyed the article, Jeff. It is unfortunately a scary venture seeking out a trained professional who can treat OCD, especially HOCD. The short criteria is this: They must primarily treat OCD and they must exclusively treat it with CBT (and within that they must emphasize ERP). The chances of them completely misdiagnosing your symptoms if these two criteria are met is low. There is a good list of providers and some good tips on the types of questions to ask them at http://www.ocfoundation.org/treatment_providers.aspx. Not everyone uses the term HOCD, so that doesn’t mean they can’t treat it. When speaking to a new therapist, I would ask them what their experience is in treating sexual orientation obsessions. Jo-Ann January 5, 2014 at 4:35 am - Reply Another fantastic article – thanks Jon! I love how you continue to evolve the recommendations regarding therapy. For example – this article discusses long term management and realistic expectations for such. Of course, I love the humour that you use as well. Those of us with OCD know that humour is a powerful weapon, and when we are in the thick of OCD or an attack/trigger – humour is often the first to go! Jonathan Hershfield January 9, 2014 at 6:27 am - Reply Thanks for the kind words! Glad you liked the article! Melvin January 10, 2014 at 7:15 am - Reply So If I look at Gay porn for 5 minutes and don’t get a erection the look at straight porn for 5 minutes and do achive a erection its fake? Jonathan Hershfield January 10, 2014 at 8:54 pm - Reply I don’t understand this question. It sounds like you are engaging in some kind of checking/testing compulsion. Rachael January 14, 2014 at 2:38 pm - Reply I am worried I could be suffering from this , but I just don’t know how to be sure. It only started about a week ago and I have been in a meaningful reletionship for two and half years. I’m scared I will lose my boyfriend due to this obsession. I’ve been having panic attacks for days. What should I do? In addition , do you have any suggestions of specialists in the Philadelphia area? Jonathan Hershfield January 18, 2014 at 7:43 pm - Reply Jonathan Grayson is in Philadelphia and is a pioneer in treating obsessions like these. Can’t do much better than that! kevin February 2, 2014 at 10:56 pm - Reply Hey Jonathan, ive been reading your blog from france, where you can read on many forums that there are a lot of young people/adult who suffer from HOCD. The scary thing here is that this OCD is not really known and trust me a LOT of those people were misdiagnosticed and went through suicide attempt/death. Unfortuantely most of them can read or write english to seek help abroad, especially here in the US where the disease is accepted as “real”. Im going through the HOCD since september, but it took me three months to realize it. I was in the first place certain i was turning gay or bi, slowly isolating myself, being scared of my long time friends and scare about being gay, that my whole life was a lie that i was a girl inside…i had a complete meltdown and went to my mum to explain her how i felt (i had been through a sentimental breakup, the death of my grandma, a new place where i moved in but where i feel so bad and new shitty job who took me away from my dream) : “mum, i think im gay, well also im still in love with this girl who dragged me in deep depression. ” She was like : ok son, why not, but have you been really attracted by a boy? do you have feelings for him? my answer was no. never. And then and only then i discovered the HOCD, going through few US forums and i read all the symptoms i had been through. I will engage in a therapy soon and try to cure my depression/suicidal thoughts. Im ready to accept that i might be turning gay or bi, although when i feel in a good mood and when my brain is running fine, there are some moments when i feel so ridiculous about all this OCD and 100 straight. I have two questions for you if you dont mind : 1; A LOT of psy/therapist here in Europe have very freudian analysis of sexuality, many people here ive been told by their therapist that basically everyone is bisexual and that you cant be 100 straight or gay. What’s your opinion with the Freud theory? 2/ About bisexuality, for which i am as afraid as gayness, do you think the HOCD reveals this 1% part of feminity/gayness everyone could have? Thanks again for your blog, i wish more people could read it, it would save some lifes.. Jonathan Hershfield February 6, 2014 at 8:02 pm - Reply >>>>Hey Jonathan, ive been reading your blog from france, where you can read on many forums that there are a lot of young people/adult who suffer from HOCD. The scary thing here is that this OCD is not really known and trust me a LOT of those people were misdiagnosticed and went through suicide attempt/death. —I have no explanation for why there is such a deficit in people who treat OCD overall, and specifically sexual obsessions, which research shows clearly affects about 11% of the OCD population (and my guess is more when you consider how many people never view it as OCD). >>>>Unfortuantely most of them can read or write english to seek help abroad, especially here in the US where the disease is accepted as “real”. Im going through the HOCD since september, but it took me three months to realize it. I was in the first place certain i was turning gay or bi, slowly isolating myself, being scared of my long time friends and scare about being gay, that my whole life was a lie that i was a girl inside…i had a complete meltdown and went to my mum to explain her how i felt (i had been through a sentimental breakup, the death of my grandma, a new place where i moved in but where i feel so bad and new shitty job who took me away from my dream) : “mum, i think im gay, well also im still in love with this girl who dragged me in deep depression. ” She was like : ok son, why not, but have you been really attracted by a boy? do you have feelings for him? my answer was no. never. And then and only then i discovered the HOCD, going through few US forums and i read all the symptoms i had been through. I will engage in a therapy soon and try to cure my depression/suicidal thoughts. Im ready to accept that i might be turning gay or bi, although when i feel in a good mood and when my brain is running fine, there are some moments when i feel so ridiculous about all this OCD and 100 straight. I have two questions for you if you dont mind : 1; A LOT of psy/therapist here in Europe have very freudian analysis of sexuality, many people here ive been told by their therapist that basically everyone is bisexual and that you cant be 100 straight or gay. What’s your opinion with the Freud theory? —-The idea of people being a sexual orientation spectrum comes from Alfred Kinsey, not Freud. I am not an expert in human sexuality, so my opinion is only my opinion. To be honest, my opinion is I don’t know — except that being 100% anything sounds unlikely. I am human, but then that means I am about 60% water. So looking for absolutes in how we define things seems like a waste of time. I think it’s normal for people who identify with one label (i.e. “I am straight”) to also have and even enjoy thoughts and feelings more commonly associated with other labels (i.e. “I am gay” or bisexual etc). Whether this somehow makes them “less straight” or somewhere on a spectrum, I really have no idea, nor do I think it matters. >>>>2/ About bisexuality, for which i am as afraid as gayness, do you think the HOCD reveals this 1% part of feminity/gayness everyone could have? —Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) is a disorder in which unwanted intrusive thoughts (obsessions like “what if I am not who I want to be?”) are responded to with behaviors aimed at getting certainty (compulsions like hyper-analysis of sexual attraction, avoidance of triggers, etc). It is called a disorder because it takes up a lot of time and causes impairment in functioning. I don’t think OCD (including HOCD) has anything particularly interesting to reveal about human sexuality. Andrew February 5, 2014 at 6:26 pm - Reply John, God knows I’ve spent hours upon hours reading about HOCD…kind of comes with the territory, right? This was by far one of the most clearly written and simultaneously hilarious series I’ve read on HOCD. Personally, I’ve derived great benefit from mindfulness, but I have yet to find a therapist who believes I actually have HOCD instead of some other issue. Their reasoning is that I don’t present any other types of OCD symptoms outside of “HOCD”. The APRN I see, on the other hand, thinks I’m a textbook case. Do you know of anybody around the Hartford/Springfield area that would be able to help me out? My complications with the HOCD also had a lot to do with a past history of sexual abuse when I was a child. It seems to me that that only complicates things unnecessarily. After all, OCD is OCD, right? Still, I’d immensely appreciate any advice you could offer. Thank you! Jonathan Hershfield February 7, 2014 at 6:23 am - Reply >>>>John, God knows I’ve spent hours upon hours reading about HOCD…kind of comes with the territory, right? This was by far one of the most clearly written and simultaneously hilarious series I’ve read on HOCD. —Thank you. Now stop reading it. >>>Personally, I’ve derived great benefit from mindfulness, but I have yet to find a therapist who believes I actually have HOCD instead of some other issue. Their reasoning is that I don’t present any other types of OCD symptoms outside of “HOCD”. The APRN I see, on the other hand, thinks I’m a textbook case. Do you know of anybody around the Hartford/Springfield area that would be able to help me out? —Not off the top of my head but check http://www.ocfoundation.org/findproviders.aspx. The idea that you need something other than an obsession, compulsions, and impairment is silly. >>>My complications with the HOCD also had a lot to do with a past history of sexual abuse when I was a child. It seems to me that that only complicates things unnecessarily. After all, OCD is OCD, right? Still, I’d immensely appreciate any advice you could offer. Thank you! —Yes, abuse complicates life, but OCD is OCD. Martin February 9, 2014 at 2:57 am - Reply Dear John, thank you for your articles. I’ve never been diagnosed with OCD, but I am fairly certain that I have it (HOCD mainly, had Self-HarmOCD, and SchizOCD (fear of halluzinating things and turning into a maniac) on top of it). The problem is I live in Europe and OCD treatment is very hard to get at here. I had two therapists already: one wanting to search around in my dreams for God knows what and one was some homeopathic ghosthealer-nutbag (at least in my impression) filling me with worthless plant potions and an unrelenting tendency to tell me I was not gay because of my body language and that I had no female soul in my body (nutbag, you see). I was able to muddle myself out of this mess for 1 and half years (where I was 95% symptom free and living the high life), then last May I was crushed with professional stress and fell back into HOCD, this time more mindbending than ever. It felt like I had made a deal with the devil who would grant me one and half years of “quality life” only to drag me to gay hell thereafter, where I would drown in mindcrushing fear forever. Before this last turning point I did not even know about HOCD, although I probably suffered from it for about 4 years before that and learning about it worsened things (self-devised ERP gone wrong). In the last months I managed to combat fear again (with my proven recipe of exercise and not giving a fuck) but then it felt like the OCD was trying to move to a new target (SchizOCD again and after that the topic that I am in love with my dad) and it feels like it has me by the balls now (funny terminology, right =P). Everytime I get to grips with one topic another flames up or even adds to what is already there. Lately, it seems I have sort of lost my identity. I feel empty most of the time or simply not like me and that my life runs on auto-pilot – not crashing but certainly not enjoying the ride.. Unfortunately my OCD tells me I can’t listen to the music I used to like anymore (heavy metal) firstly, because if I ever turned out gay then listening to that music would make me look like an overcompensating imposter; secondly, I have this fear of the songs I like getting “tainted” when my OCD links them with OCD thoughts and essentially turns them into triggers (especially songs about love) and lastly that I am simply not entitled to this music anymore because I cannot figure which things I TRUELY like, after all it might just be a part of my unconciously crafted “straight-disguise”. It seems like a minor detail but I have the feeling the OCD is taking everything that once made me me, everything that I held dear about myself, puts it into the doubt/fear-meatgrinder and turns it against me, destabilizing my whole self-image and identity in the process (not only the sexual identity, EVERYTHING). On top of that comes the fear that I moved too far out this time. I am plagued by this fear that all these thoughts and the memery of these thought will never wash off, that they will always be there in the back of my mind ready to wait for the next outbreak to remind me of my “mental crimes”, just like it happened this time. Overall my outlook on life turned very gloomy. The situations presents itself to me as follows: Either I am not the person that I think/love/want to be or I have OCD, a livelong disorder that will turn me into a mental wreck everytime I get put under stress. Neither option seems acceptable to me. Currently I am just living from one clear day (where al of this seems ridiculous to me) to the next, trying to survive the fear-filled weeks in between. I did not intend to rant about that stuff, sorry. My real intent was to ask you whether you know an OCD therapist who might do Skype counceling. I browsed all therapists in my region, but most of them only offer some sort of personality coaching and dealing with illness and only a few even list OCD among their therapy subjects (adressing it with talk therapy mostly it seems). I read some self-help books about the topic but I understand that I need guidance for my recovery or otherwise I will possibly do more harm than good. I too read your book about mindfullness, but I still haven’t figured out how to implement it effectively or maybe I am just impatient. Jonathan Hershfield February 11, 2014 at 9:06 pm - Reply >>>>Dear John, thank you for your articles. I’ve never been diagnosed with OCD, but I am fairly certain that I have it (HOCD mainly, had Self-HarmOCD, and SchizOCD (fear of halluzinating things and turning into a maniac) on top of it). The problem is I live in Europe and OCD treatment is very hard to get at here. I had two therapists already: one wanting to search around in my dreams for God knows what and one was some homeopathic ghosthealer-nutbag (at least in my impression) filling me with worthless plant potions and an unrelenting tendency to tell me I was not gay because of my body language and that I had no female soul in my body (nutbag, you see). —Sorry to hear you received poor treatment, but your description of it is hilarious. >>>>I was able to muddle myself out of this mess for 1 and half years (where I was 95% symptom free and living the high life), then last May I was crushed with professional stress and fell back into HOCD, this time more mindbending than ever. It felt like I had made a deal with the devil who would grant me one and half years of “quality life” only to drag me to gay hell thereafter, where I would drown in mindcrushing fear forever. Before this last turning point I did not even know about HOCD, although I probably suffered from it for about 4 years before that and learning about it worsened things (self-devised ERP gone wrong). In the last months I managed to combat fear again (with my proven recipe of exercise and not giving a fuck) but then it felt like the OCD was trying to move to a new target (SchizOCD again and after that the topic that I am in love with my dad) and it feels like it has me by the balls now (funny terminology, right =P). Everytime I get to grips with one topic another flames up or even adds to what is already there. Lately, it seems I have sort of lost my identity. I feel empty most of the time or simply not like me and that my life runs on auto-pilot – not crashing but certainly not enjoying the ride.. Unfortunately my OCD tells me I can’t listen to the music I used to like anymore (heavy metal) firstly, because if I ever turned out gay then listening to that music would make me look like an overcompensating imposter; —Yeah, what’s straighter than men with long hair and tight leather pants screaming poems about how painful life is? >>>>secondly, I have this fear of the songs I like getting “tainted” when my OCD links them with OCD thoughts and essentially turns them into triggers (especially songs about love) —This isa common concern. The trick is to sell out the OCD whenever you can. The OCD says not to contaminate a song, then go out of your way to contaminate it. Take your favorite song and start calling it “the gay song I will always think about gay stuff with.” It will bother you at first, but then you will forget to do it eventually and you will also forget to be worried about it. If you are protective of things, it makes them bigger OCD targets. >>>and lastly that I am simply not entitled to this music anymore because I cannot figure which things I TRUELY like, after all it might just be a part of my unconciously crafted “straight-disguise”. It seems like a minor detail but I have the feeling the OCD is taking everything that once made me me, everything that I held dear about myself, puts it into the doubt/fear-meatgrinder and turns it against me, destabilizing my whole self-image and identity in the process (not only the sexual identity, EVERYTHING). —Again this comes down mostly to you compulsively trying to control your identity instead of accepting that you do not have control. >>>On top of that comes the fear that I moved too far out this time. I am plagued by this fear that all these thoughts and the memery of these thought will never wash off, that they will always be there in the back of my mind ready to wait for the next outbreak to remind me of my “mental crimes”, just like it happened this time. —This appraisal of your experience as “mental crimes” that need to be “washed off” is a big part of your untreated OCD, something you would want to work on with a CBT specialist. >>>Overall my outlook on life turned very gloomy. The situations presents itself to me as follows: Either I am not the person that I think/love/want to be or I have OCD, a livelong disorder that will turn me into a mental wreck everytime I get put under stress. Neither option seems acceptable to me. Currently I am just living from one clear day (where al of this seems ridiculous to me) to the next, trying to survive the fear-filled weeks in between. —You sound depressed, but at least you haven’t lost your sense of humor. I think your main issue has to do with faulty appraisals of your situation. You describe OCD as being able to wreck you every time you are under stress, but your OCD is largely untreated. You also express concern about not being who you want to be, suggesting you believe there is some way to be certain that you are such a thing. There isn’t. >>>I did not intend to rant about that stuff, sorry. My real intent was to ask you whether you know an OCD therapist who might do Skype counceling. I browsed all therapists in my region, but most of them only offer some sort of personality coaching and dealing with illness and only a few even list OCD among their therapy subjects (adressing it with talk therapy mostly it seems). I read some self-help books about the topic but I understand that I need guidance for my recovery or otherwise I will possibly do more harm than good. I too read your book about mindfullness, but I still haven’t figured out how to implement it effectively or maybe I am just impatient. —I do. You can email me to discuss. I can also suggest some other treatment resources. Alisha February 26, 2014 at 5:45 pm - Reply Hello! I am posting here because I need some help. Over the last three years I have been struggling with obsessive thoughts and compulsions, although I didn’t understand what it was until very recently. I have never been formally diagnosed with OCD, but from all that I have read I would be very surprised if this was not the case. My obsessions are varied. I have experienced irrational fear of my husband not being my son’s father, despite the fact that it was not a possibility. I struggled with that exclusively from just before the birth of my son in Nov. 2010 until just before his birthday in 2013. It was triggered by a terrible dream with that theme. Eventually I explained to my husband what was going on in my head, he was a good sport and the resulting paternity test laid my fears to rest and confirmed what my logical mind already knew, my husband is my son’s father. Unfortunately, after that particular fear was silenced, I could feel my mind casting around for a new worry. Needless to say, I found something new to worry about. My obsessions started to focus themselves around my son. I struggled with fear of touching him inappropriately. These fears eventually faded, without much effort on my part although I’m beginning to believe the repeated exposure to his nakedness during diaper changes and bath time played a big role. From there, I began to worry that he had autism despite the fact that he had virtually no symptoms and had hit every milestone expected for a child his age. A consultation with his pediatrician calmed my anxiety. Afterwards, I began having intrusive thoughts that were geared toward physically harming my son with a knife. It worried me so much that I threw away certain knives that had featured in these thoughts and developed what I now recognize as a compulsion to put all knives in the sink on the left side after use. This fear too eventually subsided, although I’m not sure why. But of course, I have found something new to fear which is what has brought me here. The other day I was out with my husband and I saw a girl I know to be a lesbian. She was working in a shop we visited and came up to greet us. I thought to myself “wow, she is pretty” and thats all it took to set the train in motion. Ever since I have been so afraid of “becoming” gay or “realizing” some hidden truth about my sexuality that would result in the loss of my marriage and with it my family. I feel like that is the central point that I keep coming back to. The thoughts are different, but each causes me to fear loss of my two best guys. If my son had a different father, I would lose my family. If I touched my son inappropriately I would lose both my son and husband as well as harm my son. If I harmed him physically, the same. The autism fear is the only one that doesn’t seem to fit the mold there. Why is it that some of these thoughts seem to go away more easily thab others, and what should I do to help myself. I cannot afford to see a psychologist, so this is my best shot at some answers. Any help you could provide me would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Jonathan Hershfield March 3, 2014 at 5:33 am - Reply >>>>Hello! I am posting here because I need some help. Over the last three years I have been struggling with obsessive thoughts and compulsions, although I didn’t understand what it was until very recently. I have never been formally diagnosed with OCD, but from all that I have read I would be very surprised if this was not the case. My obsessions are varied. I have experienced irrational fear of my husband not being my son’s father, despite the fact that it was not a possibility. I struggled with that exclusively from just before the birth of my son in Nov. 2010 until just before his birthday in 2013. It was triggered by a terrible dream with that theme. Eventually I explained to my husband what was going on in my head, he was a good sport and the resulting paternity test laid my fears to rest and confirmed what my logical mind already knew, my husband is my son’s father. —Good sport indeed if he was willing to get a paternity test to accommodate your obsession! >>>Unfortunately, after that particular fear was silenced, I could feel my mind casting around for a new worry. Needless to say, I found something new to worry about. My obsessions started to focus themselves around my son. I struggled with fear of touching him inappropriately. These fears eventually faded, without much effort on my part although I’m beginning to believe the repeated exposure to his nakedness during diaper changes and bath time played a big role. —Fear of “inappropriateness” around one’s children is very common in OCD. I think your insight that exposure to him helped the obsession fade is right. It can be so debilitating for parents with this obsession who begin to avoid their children as a result. >>>From there, I began to worry that he had autism despite the fact that he had virtually no symptoms and had hit every milestone expected for a child his age. A consultation with his pediatrician calmed my anxiety. —This too is not an unusual obsession. As you already know, you have a history of seeking unnecessary tests from authority figures (in this case doctors) believing that reassurance is the key to ending an obsession. Problem is, it simply sets the stage for the next obsession and just makes the content shift around. >>>Afterwards, I began having intrusive thoughts that were geared toward physically harming my son with a knife. It worried me so much that I threw away certain knives that had featured in these thoughts and developed what I now recognize as a compulsion to put all knives in the sink on the left side after use. This fear too eventually subsided, although I’m not sure why. —Also a very common obsession for OCD parents. >>>But of course, I have found something new to fear which is what has brought me here. The other day I was out with my husband and I saw a girl I know to be a lesbian. She was working in a shop we visited and came up to greet us. I thought to myself “wow, she is pretty” and thats all it took to set the train in motion. —It is a common distorted belief that recognizing attractiveness in the same sex somehow equates to sexual orientation despite there being no evidence to support this. At the start, your insight into the history and pattern of your OCD should clue you in to what’s happening. >>>Ever since I have been so afraid of “becoming” gay or “realizing” some hidden truth about my sexuality that would result in the loss of my marriage and with it my family. I feel like that is the central point that I keep coming back to. The thoughts are different, but each causes me to fear loss of my two best guys. If my son had a different father, I would lose my family. If I touched my son inappropriately I would lose both my son and husband as well as harm my son. If I harmed him physically, the same. The autism fear is the only one that doesn’t seem to fit the mold there. Why is it that some of these thoughts seem to go away more easily thab others, and what should I do to help myself. I cannot afford to see a psychologist, so this is my best shot at some answers. Any help you could provide me would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. —Why some obsessions leave quicker than others usually has to do with whether or not you continue to engage in compulsions, but there is also some randomness to it. It’s the mind after all! You have a long history of untreated OCD. The treatment for OCD that works is cognitive behavioral therapy. If you do not have access or cannot afford a therapist who does CBT for OCD, then the next best thing would be to use some kind of self-cbt workbook. I see from your follow-up comment that you got The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD, which I think should resonate with you. You would probably also benefit from a lot of the material in Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson. I think you need to keep the focus on the similarities, not the differences in the obsessions, and then identify ways you can do exposure to this larger fear of losing the ones you love. Alisha February 26, 2014 at 5:51 pm - Reply Also, I should mention that I just bought your book this morning. The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD. I should get it in a couple of days. I am hoping it will be very helpful. lre478 March 5, 2014 at 7:21 pm - Reply Hi Jon, Just wanted to congratulate you on the amazing job you do, as you give hope to a lot of people who would struggle to find some otherwise. I believe/hope I am very much on the way to recovery from HOCD. Thanks to a therapist who didn’t use CBT at all (although he recognises it and respects it as a form of treatment). I’m basically at the stage where I still get the compulsions and think about my sexuality far too much but for some reason this just doesn’t seem to matter as much as it used to. I’m still getting all the same thought processes, but I rarely feel horrible and crippled by anxiety like I used to, whilst even getting random periods of a couple of days where I feel completely fine. My therapist and I are now looking for a therapist who knows about HOCD here in the UK (which, believe it or not, is very difficult) who could help get me over the final hurdles and go back to enjoying my love life. Just thought it might help people who are in the middle of HOCD to know that there definitely is a way out! I almost feel excited to have been part of discovering and understanding an illness which seems to be fairly new (when I first had issues with it, two years ago, there were like two articles about it on the internet, at most, now they’ve at least multiplied tenfold) and would one day (if I make a full recovery) love to become an OCD therapist and help people win their battles. So yeah… Thanks Jon Jonathan Hershfield March 7, 2014 at 6:34 pm - Reply Thanks for the positive feedback! Glad things appear to be pointing in a healthier direction for you. You might check out http://www.ocduk.org to see if they can direct you to resources in the UK. Another option might be working online with someone in the US. People like you probably make the best therapists, go for it! Tom March 7, 2014 at 4:00 pm - Reply Hi Jonathan, I have recently relapsed with hocd after feeling great for over a year. I just got your mindfulness workbook and have been going through and doing exercises. I have my moments, but can see an improvement in myself. Thanks for the great book. Can you recommend any specialist in northern New Jersey? Jonathan Hershfield March 7, 2014 at 8:20 pm - Reply Thanks for the positive feedback, happy the book is resonating with you! Allen Weg in East Brunswick – http://www.stressandanxiety.com/ Itisawayoflife March 11, 2014 at 2:39 pm - Reply Hello, I have a quick question about testing. I personally fell into the trap of testing and checked gay porn a lot. I myself have spent 2 hours watching gay porn in one sitting, the problem is I seem to get a slight reaction to the gay porn. Its nothing like I get to straight or lesbian porn but its something. My penis will increase in save and this worries me. I have still never had an erection without forcing it. I just wanted to know if this a normal thing for a person with HOCD to receive slight arousal from gay porn and mental images. Jonathan Hershfield March 16, 2014 at 4:38 am - Reply >>>>Hello, I have a quick question about testing. I personally fell into the trap of testing and checked gay porn a lot. I myself have spent 2 hours watching gay porn in one sitting, the problem is I seem to get a slight reaction to the gay porn. —Good. Means you aren’t dead. >>>Its nothing like I get to straight or lesbian porn but its something. My penis will increase in save and this worries me. I have still never had an erection without forcing it. I just wanted to know if this a normal thing for a person with HOCD to receive slight arousal from gay porn and mental images. —-I can tell you two things. First, it is an assumption, not a fact, that anything that happens between your legs is an indicator of your identity or orientation (whether you’re watching straight porn, gay porn, or c-span). Second, you are asking for reassurance in an attempt to get certainty that you are not gay. So long as you do that, the OCD will always find a way back in. Ryan March 14, 2014 at 5:07 pm - Reply Hi Jon, Wanted to thank you a lot for writing these blogs, helped me a lot when I first found out about ocd. I’ve had 5 sessions of cbt after which my therapist and I concluded my ocd was too severe to be treated yet. I thought I was progressing and then my girlfriend told me about Elton John’s coming out story and I fell right back to square one. I was wondering if there’s anything I can do in the meantime to help the obsessions? She suggested taking antidepressants but I don’t want to kill my sex drive any further with my girlfriend. I feel in a much darker pace having had to stop the cbt, and I feel even more numb around women. Jonathan Hershfield March 16, 2014 at 4:56 am - Reply Hi Ryan, I don’t understand what you mean when you say your ocd was “too severe to be treated yet.” Since severity would only be reduced by treatment, when is that supposed to happen? You are asking what to do about your obsession other than treat it, but I’m not sure how to answer that. If you don’t have access to treatment, the only other thing would be to do self-CBT with a workbook. As for meds, if your ocd is indeed severe, it may be necessary to utilize medication as a tool in helping you get the strength to treat the ocd. That’s something you would have to sort out with a psychiatrist. Ryan March 16, 2014 at 4:11 pm - Reply Hi Jon Sorry I didn’t put that quite right. I wasn’t ready for CBT, in that I was struggling greatly with only imaginal exposure and my therapist felt I would just keep struggling more and more. I think one of the problems was that I was trying to get attracted to women following the exposure, and while it worked, it increased my expectations and I wasn’t ready for the drop. My depression has definitely increased, and I’m getting the groinal responses without the anxiety around men. After I’ve had a bit of time on SSRIs would it be possible to do some skyping sessions with you? Thanks Jonathan Hershfield March 16, 2014 at 4:52 pm - Reply Yeah, trying to get attracted to something has a pretty predictable effect when you consider what happens when you try to NOT have a response to something. When depression is a major factor, it often trumps your ability to effectively engage in ERP. CBT/ERP is hard work and you need to be motivated and believe the effort is worth it because you’re worth it — both things that get zapped by depression. Medication is sometimes a necessary element in these cases if for no other reason than to get the depression out of the damn way! Re skype sessions, that depends somewhat on your location. Email me directly at jon@ocdspecialists.com for more info. james March 21, 2014 at 10:14 pm - Reply Here’s a quick question that has been bugging me. I have been trying to implement a self help plan and I can’t help feeling like I’m doing it wrong. I’m following work books, but when I’m doing erp I feel like, although I am feeling anxiety and trying not to do compulsions, that there is a fear that maybe I don’t have ocd and aren’t gay and that the exposures may brainwash me to actually be gay. Of course that sounds like ocd, but there is no guiding light here when I’m sitting down reading coming out stories and I just feel anxious afterwards. Jonathan Hershfield March 25, 2014 at 6:42 pm - Reply I would include in your exposures the idea that you may not have OCD and may have to cope with finding this out too late. When I work with people who compulsively wash their hands until they bleed, they often think ERP is brainwashing them into being irresponsibly lazy. Ryan March 22, 2014 at 1:26 am - Reply Hi Jon, since I last posted I’ve had a very good week, saying to myself “I don’t need to know the answer to that.” I was getting aroused thinking about being with my girlfriend after that. But just today my friend hugged me in an aggressive way. I felt like I enjoyed it physically but with no groinal response. Is that what you meant by the desire to be physically close to a friend? I’ve had these thoughts to different extremes for almost 3 years now and I feel like it’s a coming out process. The anxiety and depression have mostly gone, which reinforces that belief more. Jonathan Hershfield March 25, 2014 at 6:44 pm - Reply The question begs, do you need to know my answer? Personally, I love a good aggressive hug. It generally wouldn’t occur to me that this could mean something, but if it did occur to me, I would say “OK then” and go about my business. Olivia March 24, 2014 at 12:43 pm - Reply Hi Jon, First, I’d just like to say your work is incredibly insightful. I’ve dealt/dealing with nearly every form of OCD. It feels like an absolute curse. Germ/filth obsessions, orderliness/moving items in my house over and over again making sure they are in the “right” spot, horrifying thoughts of hurting my family/pets, obsessing over a variety of illnesses and convincing myself that I’m dying of something and of course the HOCD. When my mind moves on from one the next one comes full force. I’m only 22 and so I wonder if I’ll ever be able to lead a normal life. Regarding HOCD..when you fall into a trap of testing yourself and look at sexual images, can the HOCD thoughts provoke arousal? This will happen to me initially and then I look again later and get confused because I realize I don’t desire who or whats going on in the image. Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 3:46 am - Reply You posted a later comment that you found the answer to your question, but I wanted to reply anyway. People often comment that treating OCD is like playing whack-a-mole, the carnival game in which you hit something only to have something else pop up right after. The reason this analogy is flawed is because if you practice whack-a-mole, you actually get better at it. So even though your OCD may shift in it content, if you learn to get there before the OCD, do the exposure, confront your discomfort with uncertainty, you actually can master this thing. Doesn’t matter if the contaminant is on your hands or in your head. Olivia March 27, 2014 at 9:58 am - Reply Hi again Jon, I actually discovered the answer to the question I posted on Mar. 24th. I apologize for the inconvenience. Thanks James March 30, 2014 at 6:15 am - Reply I promise I’ll stop posting here once I’ve got this all in line and in the mean time I’ll continue to keep it short. So if one of my distorted thought processes is that I feel I should have the physical reactions of a teenager every time I see an attractive girl and I want to write a script to squash this distortion, how would I go about that? Would I write about how every other guy has those reactions and I’m the only one who doesn’t? That would cause significant anxiety, but I’m not 100% what angle to approach that one with. Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 4:33 am - Reply >>>I promise I’ll stop posting here once I’ve got this all in line and in the mean time I’ll continue to keep it short. —“All in line” suggests you are seeking certainty. >>>So if one of my distorted thought processes is that I feel I should have the physical reactions of a teenager every time I see an attractive girl and I want to write a script to squash this distortion, how would I go about that? Would I write about how every other guy has those reactions and I’m the only one who doesn’t? That would cause significant anxiety, but I’m not 100% what angle to approach that one with. —I would write this sort of script from an angle of uncertainty, focusing on the idea that you NOT responding a certain way COULD mean something and if it DOES, it might pan out a certain way you’ll have to deal with. TJ March 31, 2014 at 12:33 am - Reply Hey, i have had HOCD of and on for 4 years now im now 17 years old and have obssesive thoughts compulsions and rituals and eats up most of my day. Im worried that im acutally gay and not hocd have any suggestions i already have therapist, but not specialized in OCD and said she has never heard of this can u help? Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 4:35 am - Reply Not sure what to add other than you have to find a therapist who is competent in treating ocd. To not have heard of sexual orientation obsessions suggests they are not trained in any way to treat OCD. There is a decent list of treatment providers at http://www.ocfoundation.org. Cf April 1, 2014 at 2:04 am - Reply Hi Jon, thanks for all of your blogs (and your book!) It’s helpful to hear from someone who really knows how this feels. My question- I have had ocd my entire life, no question about it, and have all of the symptoms of this theme as well. Lately I have been really struggling with sexual orientation obsessions and have managed to say ok whatever to most of them, but yesterday I felt what seemed like true longing for one of my good friend and it didn’t evoke fear in me at all, in fact it felt like I enjoyed the feeling. I don’t know if I have gotten good at ignoring those things but I did no response to it, just tried to keep a neutral attitude. The fact that I didn’t feel anxiety is scaring me now, even moreso because my scariest obsessions (the ones that I still avoid) have involved this particular friend. I don’t recall ever having a conscious attraction to her but I have a dreaded feeling that one of these days I am going to realize that I have been attracted to her all along and I’ve just been repressing it. I have been working hard on mindfulness meditation but this particular fear seems to be completely stuck…either that or it’s not a fear and all of my other thoughts were a distraction to really dealing with this true attraction. It’s making me feel completely powerless because I just can’t feel better no matter what things I try. I have faced the fear/emotional block head on but I still really don’t understand how to move past it. Any ideas for ERP or should I just learn to live with this and always feel (know?) like I am secretly in love with my best friend? It just feels so so real. Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 4:42 am - Reply The fear of not having enough fear is sometimes referred to as a backdoor spike. The issue here, as in all OCD, has to do with an intolerance of uncertainty. Accepting that you could be in love with your friend, does not mean you ARE in love with your friend. It means that you are allowing the thought of being in love with your friend to float by without compulsively trying to eliminate it. Instead of focusing on how to process the thought and guarantee that you are straight, the focus needs to be on allowing the thought to be a thought and accepting that if it coincides with a reality, you will figure out a way to cope with that reality. In the meantime, responding to the thought compulsively only ensures that it remains intrusive. You can practice this with imaginal exposure script probably, something focusing on the idea that you are secretly in love with this person and your failure to compulse it away has some consequences. In short, a lot of “ok, maybe…” Dave April 7, 2014 at 11:17 pm - Reply I have read many comments by gays and non gays on the internet who say that if you get aroused by guys then you are gay. No arousal for girls=gay. I have been getting consistent groinals or arousals for guys since age 25. Never before. I read where one guy said he was straight and never had a gay thought until age 27 and then he started noticing men and getting aroused to them and lost all his arousal and attraction for women. He is in his mid thirties now and says he has accepted himself. This parallels my story where I was aroused by women but amn’t so much anymore and am by guys. This makes me depressed as you know. Also there is a belief in the gay community that hocd is a way to keep gays int he closet and is harming them. What if the reason I am so sad and irritable is because I have been told I have ocd instead of accepting my gay self?? Maybe it is damaging me like old fashioned gay reparative thereapy?? I also read a response to a guy who had wondered if he had hocd and a girl replied that you wouldnt have arousals for 4 yrs to men if it was ocd. I have this 7 yrs now. This makes me feel that my situation is hopeless. It’s so confusing. There are people who say the brain/body reacts with arousal to anything sexual whether it is within your orientation or not and there are other experts who say no, that men are only aroused by their real orientation based on scientific studies. There are people with hocd who claim to not be aroused by guys and there are sufferers who claim to be aroused. Are some of them in the closet?? Are they genuine cases or fakers? I can definitely see obsessive traits in my behaviour but yet I feel my fear of being gay is true at the same time. I have read up on ocd and it says that ocd people are not aroused by their thoughts. Well if that’s true then I dont have ocd and am just repressed. Yet when I told my ocd therapist this a few yrs ago he didn’t care if I got aroused and still said it was ocd. Which is it though? I am confused. Was he lying to me? I am scared my orientation either switched or was born gay and was never aware that this side existed in me. Some say you would know by adolescence, others say you may discover gay feelings much later in life and you realise you were gay. My post is not very coherent as I am in a bad way right now, confused and depressed. I was told to agree with the gay intrusive thoughts and welcome the groinals but when my brain tells me I am a (derogatory gay word) and I agree my morale drops off the charts. I was told to not challenge them. But when I do this I get depressed and there seems to be no hope. I know you hate me posting here at this stage and I know you feel that you cant help me anymore than you have so far but when I see guys topless I get arousal feelings down there, and then none when I see girls topless I really lose faith in treating this as ocd. This was not the case until 25 yrs old. I used to feel aroused by girls never guys although I never tried as it never occured to me to evn try. But I fear that the old me is dead and never coming back and I will end up like these gays who have posted their experience. Other hocd’ers seem so much more positive than me and either know their obsession is not true or they seem to be more upbeat and make progress and come through this. I have been for therapy and nothing changes. I feel hopeless, I see no light at the end of the tunnel, and I certainly do not feel like this obsession is false. I have lost faith in therapy and myself. Oh a gay guy came onto me in a straight niteclub last weekend and I felt disgusted and weirded out by it and fled pretty quick. I had no desire to get with him. Yet I fear I will act on these urges one day and I feel like I want to crawl up and die because of that. Also I have read that ocd people do not get aroused by their thoughts yet another says 40% do. What is the difference between a groinal and arousal? I have read your blog more times than I care to remember but I am still confused. Is a semi erection or full erection considered a groinal? Is it a strong tingling or excitement feeling down there? Where does it start to cross the line? I apolgise for my incessant behaviour. Nobody hates me more than me. I have read that anxiety will pass if you sit with it for 20-30mins yet mine does linger all day. I will eventually have to give in and test. Maybe its not an ocd urge? Maybe its gay sexual urges that must be released?? I dunno 🙁 Thank you Jonathan Hershfield April 11, 2014 at 6:43 pm - Reply >>>>I have read many comments by gays and non gays on the internet who say that if you get aroused by guys then you are gay. No arousal for girls=gay. I have been getting consistent groinals or arousals for guys since age 25. Never before. —Well, if a person says it on the internet, it must be true then. I have yet to see a large-scale peer-reviewed scientific study drawing a direct causal relationship between groinal responses and orientation or a case of a person turning gay against their will, but I have also never heard of anyone getting HIV from a doorknob and several of my clients think this is going to happen to them too. The only logical conclusion is to accept uncertainty, including the idea that you could be the first and would have to cope with that if it were true. >>>I read where one guy said he was straight and never had a gay thought until age 27 and then he started noticing men and getting aroused to them and lost all his arousal and attraction for women. He is in his mid thirties now and says he has accepted himself. This parallels my story where I was aroused by women but amn’t so much anymore and am by guys. This makes me depressed as you know. Also there is a belief in the gay community that hocd is a way to keep gays int he closet and is harming them. What if the reason I am so sad and irritable is because I have been told I have ocd instead of accepting my gay self?? Maybe it is damaging me like old fashioned gay reparative thereapy?? —It doesn’t parallel you at all because you don’t accept yourself, so again, maybe, anything’s possible. This guy you read about is presumably out there gaying it up and feeling good about it. Certainly is an interesting story anyway. I do hear that you are depressed and am sure that is incredibly painful. You have a theory that you are depressed because of repressed feelings or something like that. I think you are depressed, at least in part, due to the fact that your refusal to stop compulsive testing behaviors has made it impossible for you to be present in the moment of any of your preferred arousals, making it seem like something you care a lot about has died. That is depressing. It is also treatable if you are willing to take the risk of accepting uncertainty by not doing compulsions. Yes, it may end up meaning you are in fact in some kind of gay denial or gay awakening. Or it may result in you freeing yourself rom your OCD and depression. One thing is for certain, the testing keeps you frozen in this state in perpetuity. None of my contamination clients ever overcome their fear of germs (whether rational or irrational) until they stop trying to prove they are clean. >>>I also read a response to a guy who had wondered if he had hocd and a girl replied that you wouldnt have arousals for 4 yrs to men if it was ocd. I have this 7 yrs now. This makes me feel that my situation is hopeless. —I would argue that your hopelessness stems more from you disregarding the repeated instruction by likely any OCD therapist you have ever read about to stop seeking reassurance about your obsession (on the internet or otherwise). It is, as above, just another form of washing. It is guaranteed to backfire in the end, as are all compulsions. The question is not, why did that girl say 4 years means you’re gay? The question is why is Dave online asking questions about gayness? >>>It’s so confusing. There are people who say the brain/body reacts with arousal to anything sexual whether it is within your orientation or not and there are other experts who say no, that men are only aroused by their real orientation based on scientific studies. There are people with hocd who claim to not be aroused by guys and there are sufferers who claim to be aroused. Are some of them in the closet?? Are they genuine cases or fakers? —Unknowable. >>>I can definitely see obsessive traits in my behaviour but yet I feel my fear of being gay is true at the same time. I have read up on ocd and it says that ocd people are not aroused by their thoughts. —This is an inaccurate oversimplification. >>>Well if that’s true then I dont have ocd and am just repressed. Yet when I told my ocd therapist this a few yrs ago he didn’t care if I got aroused and still said it was ocd. Which is it though? I am confused. Was he lying to me? —The therapist was correct in my opinion. Physical arousal is not a relevant factor to determining what an obsession is. If it were, all of my Harm OCD clients would be serial killers. >>>>I am scared my orientation either switched or was born gay and was never aware that this side existed in me. Some say you would know by adolescence, others say you may discover gay feelings much later in life and you realise you were gay. —I understand this is your obsession. My recommendation would be that you stop doing compulsions and do exposure to your fear that you were either born gay and just realized it or have turned gay. But again, the xposure will only work if you stop engaging in reassurance seeking and testing compulsions. >>>My post is not very coherent as I am in a bad way right now, confused and depressed. I was told to agree with the gay intrusive thoughts and welcome the groinals but when my brain tells me I am a (derogatory gay word) and I agree my morale drops off the charts. I was told to not challenge them. But when I do this I get depressed and there seems to be no hope. —It’s coherent, and I am sorry to hear you are suffering so. Perhaps a more mindful focus would be better suited for your personality. In other words, instead of agreeing with the thoughts and calling yourself names, work more on acknowledging simply that the thoughts are passing by and resisting the urge to argue or problem-solve them. There are several books on mindfulness that might help you understand this concept. >>>I know you hate me posting here at this stage and I know you feel that you cant help me anymore —If you know what I am thinking and feeling, this suggests you may have more magical powers, which I recommend trying to figure out a way to turn into profit. >>>> than you have so far but when I see guys topless I get arousal feelings down there, and then none when I see girls topless I really lose faith in treating this as ocd. This was not the case until 25 yrs old. I used to feel aroused by girls never guys although I never tried as it never occured to me to evn try. But I fear that the old me is dead and never coming back and I will end up like these gays who have posted their experience. —Though I suspect it isn’t, you will only get better if you accept that it could be. Now, having accepted that your fear has the potential to be true, what is it that you will do differently? This again, can only be arrived at once you stop testing and reassurance seeking. This means when you notice arousal to guys, you accept it as it is and don;t follow it with an in-depth analysis of what it COULD be. Same goes for when you become aware of an absence of arousal to girls. More “oh, hey, there’s that” and less “oh no what is that and what does it mean and where can I get a definitive answer?” >>>Other hocd’ers seem so much more positive than me and either know their obsession is not true or they seem to be more upbeat and make progress and come through this. I have been for therapy and nothing changes. I feel hopeless, I see no light at the end of the tunnel, and I certainly do not feel like this obsession is false. I have lost faith in therapy and myself. —You are making some assumptions about others with OCD that I think is somewhat biased by your experience with it. This is to be expected, but something you may want to try to let go of. Other people are other people. It is clear that you are depressed and that you need some professional help with this depression. You say that nothing changes in the therapy you’ve done, but I don’t know how long you did it or whether you were consistent with the ERP. My experience on this blog is just that you struggle to stop doing compulsions, which is the primary thing a person is asked to do in OCD treatment. But the loss of faith in oneself is not to be taken lightly. I hope you seek professional help to address these depressive symptoms above all. >>>Oh a gay guy came onto me in a straight niteclub last weekend and I felt disgusted and weirded out by it and fled pretty quick. I had no desire to get with him. Yet I fear I will act on these urges one day and I feel like I want to crawl up and die because of that. —The idea that you think crawling up and dying is a reasonable way to cope with the possibility that one day you might respond positively to a gay experience suggests a lot of distorted thinking going on. And none of it has anything to actually do with sexual orientation, from what I can tell. You say you had no desire to get with him, but then you say you are afraid you will act on your urges. What urges? That doesn’t make any sense. More accurately, you are afraid of your obsession and responding to it with attempts to prove that it won’t come true, which is only making the presence of the obsession more intrusive and pervasive. >>>>Also I have read that ocd people do not get aroused by their thoughts yet another says 40% do. What is the difference between a groinal and arousal? —The amount of reading you do. >>>>I have read your blog more times than I care to remember but I am still confused. Is a semi erection or full erection considered a groinal? Is it a strong tingling or excitement feeling down there? Where does it start to cross the line? —Where did I say there is a line? A groinal response is a response in your groin. Your groin is the area between your legs. What we make of our interpretation of what goes on between our legs is up to us. Trying to make it a system of measurement for sexual orientation is compulsive, unreliable, and will never work. >>>I apolgise for my incessant behaviour. Nobody hates me more than me. I have read that anxiety will pass if you sit with it for 20-30mins yet mine does linger all day. I will eventually have to give in and test. Maybe its not an ocd urge? Maybe its gay sexual urges that must be released?? I dunno 🙁 Thank you —From what I have read, nobody to date has died from anxiety. Your argument that you will eventually “have to give in” to compulsive choices because anxiety remains high suggests that you believe something else. To your maybe-questions, the answer may be maybe. This is not an endorsement of compulsions, which regardless of how you want to label your experience (OCD, gay, or something else), will never work. On your own, it appears you are making some kind of a commitment to continuing the testing and reassurance seeking compulsions because of the temporary and random moments of relief they bring. I again want to discourage you from this strategy and instead recommend you get professional help for your depression and OCD symptoms. Dave April 11, 2014 at 11:21 pm - Reply Jon thank you so much for answering my post. I am aware I am a serious pain in the ass. As I write this I have just had a horrible day. I have read your reply carefully and I am really trying not to test by masturbation right now. You’re right I am choosing to do compulsions but this is where its so difficult for me: I was filling my car up with gas today at a service station. I was grabbing a take away coffee when this good looking guy walks in and as I glanced at him my brain in that split second thought he might be gay and I got an instant strong tingling sensation in my testicles. This is the response I used to get sexually to girls when I was happy in my teens so I know its an arousal response which scares the crap out of me. Anyway my anxiety went up but not in a panic, more of a mood drop and dwelling on what happened down there. I was thinking about it for hours after even as I went about my day. LAter as I was relaxing watching tv I saw a soccer player changing his jersey and I was caught off guard as he took his top off and I get this VERY STRONG tension suddenly grip my groin like I was getting super aroused against my will. It was absolutely terrifying. Then this evening I was with some friends and got very strong groinal responses around them but different from the one I had earlier. This time I felt tightening in my perineum, a slight semi, and this awful sexual tension and again my mood plummeted. Its impossible to ignore it Jon as the feelings down there are SO STRONG and scary. At its worst its like this massive sexual tension or urge in my groin to have sex with a guy even though Im terrified. I go about my day if I am out of the house but my mind is dwelling on it and my mood is very low and depressed. The reason I’m describing these groinals in detail is to underscore how strong they are and hard to ignore without giving in to compulsions. The sensations are so strong and disturbing that I just want to masturbate to my intrusive scary thoughts just to get rid of that awful ‘horny’ feeling in my groin that stays all day. Then when I get off to it my mind uses that as proof that Im gay as many experts online say that people who are gay masturbate about men most if not all the time and here is me doing just that. Also the relief I feel after makes me feel like I enjoyed it. I know you say anxiety never killed anyone yet I read that many hocd’ers merely have thoughts and not groinals. Now I know you have dedicated a blog to groinals so I’m not the only one but the word ‘groinal response’ is so vague that I feel that others are simply misinterpreting some tiny harmless sensation down there, where as I am getting these massively strong responses in my groin that they couldn’t possibly have what I am experiencing. It’s so strong and scary that my way of interpreting it is that I super aroused by men and that my fear is making the arousal uncomfortable and scary. It makes my heart sink to my stomach. I can only imagine what I am experiencing is gay sexual urges that are repressed like some right wing very religious anti gay weirdo in denial would feel, fighting his urges until he has to give in and lead a secret ”sinful” gay life. I am not religious for the record. I dont hate gays and never would discriminate yet I have read from gays on message boards say that ‘while you are not anti gay, you dont see gay as being equal to straight in your own mind and that is keeping you from embracing your sexual orientation.(gay). I did not ask these gays this, I read a hocder asking them on a site called Empty Closets where they believe hocd is a made up illness to keep guys in denial. Many say they were tormented before accepting themselves as gay so this blows the whole ‘gays love their attraction-hocd’ers fear their ‘attractions” argument out of the water that I have read on ocd websites. Anyway I just wanted to say when I resist compulsions to masturbate the groinal tension lasts indefinitely and then I start having gay dreams at night and I am scared I will have gay wet dreams and that could make me almost suicidal tbh. I live with my parents even though I am past 30. I may have to move into a rented house in another town for my potential new job and I am terrified of that because when I freak out now at least I can come home and no longer have to keep up the mask of being a normal everyday guy. I can talk to my parents about my gay worries and offload some of my fears and break down if needs be where no one can see. If I am sharing a house with people (even if they become friends) I fear I will have no emotional support (as I would never tell anyone about this) when I am really anxious and have no one to talk to and I will have an emotional breakdown. Also I fear my true self (gay?) being exposed to people and I will be exposed as a gay. I fear this because I am worried I will be sharing a house with a hot girl and wont be able to perform sexually if we hook up or I am afraid I will have anxiety attacks in bed like I used to have in my early 20’s with girls. Conversely I am scared I will be sharing a house with a gay guy and end up having sex with him. This terrifies me because I am getting so sick of wondering and worrying I may give in to find out if the opportunity presents itself. Also I fear having seriosuly strong sexual urges (groinals) around a gay guy housemate and giiving into them. This makes me want to stay at home with my parents and not take this job for fear of these potentially disastrous (for me anyway) events from happening. At least I can be myself with them. Does this sound like I am in the closet to you? I had a girlfriend up until recently. She did not know I had ocd or gay fears. I loved her but due to the long distance she ended it plus she probably lost attraction for me. I could have sex with her and enjoyed it. But my big fear is that gay sex would feel so much better. Sorry for vomiting my fears all over you. I really would like to get therapy from you on skype but financially am not currently in a position to do so due to being unemployed for 8 months now. Just to warn you I am a pessimist by nature and hate feeling as if I am ‘bullshitting myself’ by saying this is ocd. I will try my best to not give in to these compusions but it feels like trying to give up heroin. 🙁 Many thanks once again. I know your articles have been a godsend to many sufferers. Jonathan Hershfield April 17, 2014 at 3:58 am - Reply >>>>Jon thank you so much for answering my post. I am aware I am a serious pain in the ass. As I write this I have just had a horrible day. I have read your reply carefully and I am really trying not to test by masturbation right now. You’re right I am choosing to do compulsions but this is where its so difficult for me: I was filling my car up with gas today at a service station. —Yeah, that’s super gay. Oh, there’s more… >>>>>I was grabbing a take away coffee when this good looking guy walks in and as I glanced at him my brain in that split second thought he might be gay and I got an instant strong tingling sensation in my testicles. This is the response I used to get sexually to girls when I was happy in my teens so I know its an arousal response which scares the crap out of me. —This is a logical fallacy. You are saying that because something feels like something else you remember feeling, that the two feelings are the same, for the same reason, or are somehow caused by the same thing. Though they could be, your reasoning for thinking that they MUST be is flawed. Since you are scared much of the time anyway, a more logical assessment of the situation would be to say you don’t know why you felt what you felt and stay out of the interpretation business. >>>Anyway my anxiety went up but not in a panic, more of a mood drop and dwelling on what happened down there. I was thinking about it for hours after even as I went about my day. —This analysis and repeated return to the topic for more analysis (what you call “dwelling”) is a compulsion. Though the thoughts may persist on their own, you are also actively bringing them up for review in an attempt to prove you are not gay. >>>LAter as I was relaxing watching tv I saw a soccer player changing his jersey and I was caught off guard as he took his top off and I get this VERY STRONG tension suddenly grip my groin like I was getting super aroused against my will. It was absolutely terrifying. —This only makes sense if you believe that a physical response between your legs has an intrinsic meaning that is intrinsically threatening. If my groin started talking to me, I would be alarmed. Anything else it might do is not particularly interesting regardless of what I happen to be observing in the moment. If I assigned automatic meaning to the goings-on down there and set about trying to prove that it didn’t mean this or that, I would be convinced I was in denial of my sexual orientation to everything, including men, children, my car, the computer I’m typing away at right this moment, and the lunch I just ate (so delicious I might just secretly want to leave my wife and marry it). >>>Then this evening I was with some friends and got very strong groinal responses around them but different from the one I had earlier. This time I felt tightening in my perineum, a slight semi, and this awful sexual tension and again my mood plummeted. Its impossible to ignore it Jon as the feelings down there are SO STRONG and scary. At its worst its like this massive sexual tension or urge in my groin to have sex with a guy even though Im terrified. I go about my day if I am out of the house but my mind is dwelling on it and my mood is very low and depressed. —I don’t recommend ignoring. Acknowledge what is objectively true, that you are aware of a physical sensation in your groin. My recommendation is to leave it at that rather than pull yourself away from everything you care about to play the certainty game, which you are guaranteed to fail. >>>>The reason I’m describing these groinals in detail is to underscore how strong they are and hard to ignore without giving in to compulsions. The sensations are so strong and disturbing that I just want to masturbate to my intrusive scary thoughts just to get rid of that awful ‘horny’ feeling in my groin that stays all day. Then when I get off to it my mind uses that as proof that Im gay as many experts online say that people who are gay masturbate about men most if not all the time and here is me doing just that. Also the relief I feel after makes me feel like I enjoyed it. —But then they are as strong as they are because of the strong response you give them. >>>>I know you say anxiety never killed anyone yet I read that many hocd’ers merely have thoughts and not groinals. —Not sure where you read that but it is inconsistent with my experience treating HOCD. Though you might still have to accept the possibility that your fears are true and that you are a special case. Further, how a person would be certain if they did or did not have a groinal response is somewhat mysterious. >>>>Now I know you have dedicated a blog to groinals so I’m not the only one but the word ‘groinal response’ is so vague that I feel that others are simply misinterpreting some tiny harmless sensation down there, where as I am getting these massively strong responses in my groin that they couldn’t possibly have what I am experiencing. It’s so strong and scary that my way of interpreting it is that I super aroused by men and that my fear is making the arousal uncomfortable and scary. It makes my heart sink to my stomach. I can only imagine what I am experiencing is gay sexual urges that are repressed like some right wing very religious anti gay weirdo in denial would feel, fighting his urges until he has to give in and lead a secret ”sinful” gay life. I am not religious for the record. —Your fear is that what happens between your legs is more severe than what happens between the legs of other people who say they have HOCD. This is either true, untrue, or something like the truth. You have to accept this possibility rather than trying to prove it away. This would be true of any obsession, such as the Harm OCD sufferer who tells me they felt a strong urge in their hand toward reaching for a knife and not just a thought or a tingling in their fingers. >>>>I dont hate gays and never would discriminate yet I have read from gays on message boards say that ‘while you are not anti gay, you dont see gay as being equal to straight in your own mind and that is keeping you from embracing your sexual orientation.(gay). I did not ask these gays this, I read a hocder asking them on a site called Empty Closets where they believe hocd is a made up illness to keep guys in denial. Many say they were tormented before accepting themselves as gay so this blows the whole ‘gays love their attraction-hocd’ers fear their ‘attractions” argument out of the water that I have read on ocd websites. —-I realize the irony of me saying this on my own blog, but I can’t take anything you say seriously if it is going to start with “but I read on the internet…” >>>Anyway I just wanted to say when I resist compulsions to masturbate the groinal tension lasts indefinitely and then I start having gay dreams at night and I am scared I will have gay wet dreams and that could make me almost suicidal tbh. —What makes you so desperate is your interpretation of the experience, not the experience itself. Have gay dreams. So be it. >>>I live with my parents even though I am past 30. I may have to move into a rented house in another town for my potential new job and I am terrified of that because when I freak out now at least I can come home and no longer have to keep up the mask of being a normal everyday guy. I can talk to my parents about my gay worries and offload some of my fears —Sounds like you have them participating in your reassurance compulsions. You should teach them about OCD and form a contract with them in which they have your permission to deny you reassurance. >>>and break down if needs be where no one can see. If I am sharing a house with people (even if they become friends) I fear I will have no emotional support (as I would never tell anyone about this) when I am really anxious and have no one to talk to and I will have an emotional breakdown. —Living at home may be a good safety net. Or it may be a form of avoidance. Hard to say, but if you are afraid you can’t function outside of your parents’ house, you pretty much guarantee it if you never move out. >>>Also I fear my true self (gay?) being exposed to people and I will be exposed as a gay. —This assumes anyone cares what sexual orientation you are. Anyone who actually DID care is unlikely to care as much as you seem to. But above all, what other people think is unknowable. >>>>I fear this because I am worried I will be sharing a house with a hot girl and wont be able to perform sexually if we hook up —Don’t hook up with your hot girl roommate. That story almost always ends in murder-suicide or waking up in a tub of ice with your kidney missing. Both problems bigger than being secretly gay. >>>>or I am afraid I will have anxiety attacks in bed like I used to have in my early 20′s with girls. Conversely I am scared I will be sharing a house with a gay guy and end up having sex with him. This terrifies me because I am getting so sick of wondering and worrying I may give in to find out if the opportunity presents itself. Also I fear having seriosuly strong sexual urges (groinals) around a gay guy housemate and giiving into them. This makes me want to stay at home with my parents and not take this job for fear of these potentially disastrous (for me anyway) events from happening. At least I can be myself with them. Does this sound like I am in the closet to you? —You talk of being yourself and at the same time are avoiding pretty much anything that has the potential to develop a sense of self. I think you are not yourself now, but a slave to your obsession. The term “in the closet” comes from the fact that homosexuals have historically had to hide their lifestyle from hetero-normative society, hence having gay sexual encounters in closets and such instead of broadcasting their affections to the public. I can’t imagine what “in the closet” has to do with what your experience is. >>>I had a girlfriend up until recently. She did not know I had ocd or gay fears. I loved her but due to the long distance she ended it plus she probably lost attraction for me. I could have sex with her and enjoyed it. But my big fear is that gay sex would feel so much better. —Maybe it would. I don’t see why that’s relevant to what you’re going through. I have not had gay sex nor do I have any plans to, but my guess is it feels pretty awesome. >>>>Sorry for vomiting my fears all over you. I really would like to get therapy from you on skype but financially am not currently in a position to do so due to being unemployed for 8 months now. Just to warn you I am a pessimist by nature and hate feeling as if I am ‘bullshitting myself’ by saying this is ocd. —If you plan to get better, you can do so while still being a pessimist, but you will have to eventually do exposure to your fear that this is not OCD and that you might be gay. The only way to effectively do this exposure would be to live your life and stop trying to prove you are straight. >>>>I will try my best to not give in to these compusions but it feels like trying to give up heroin. 🙁 —That’s true. So since people actually do successfully give up heroin (I have met a few who have), it suggests that they have decided whatever pain they have to go through to get off of the drug is worth it, that there is some value they have which means more to them than being high. If the thing you value most in life is certainty about your orientation and certainty does not exist, then this is a recipe for depression. >>>>Many thanks once again. I know your articles have been a godsend to many sufferers. —Don’t give up on yourself. Ryan April 16, 2014 at 4:29 am - Reply Hi Jon, So since I’ve been forced to stop the treatment I’ve been doing pretty well at stopping the complulsions as well as practicing some mindfulness, and it was actually working. I felt a connection to my girlfriend that I hadn’t felt in a long time, and my anxiety and depression was mostly non-existent. However, I’m afraid I’m starting to have obsessive thoughts about one gay man in particular. While it’s a passing worry right now, I’m expecting it to take up more of my thought process like all my other obsessions in time. When the thought first came it was just a thought, but isn’t that how these things always start? I find it hard to deal with how unfair this all is at times. I know I’m going to choose my girlfriend no matter what, I just want my thought process to match that. While there are many obsessive questions I could ask you, I’m not going to as I’ve been down that road too many times before. Jonathan Hershfield April 18, 2014 at 5:34 pm - Reply Hi Ryan, I would do exposure to the idea that your focus on a specific person may develop into an obsession and may interfere in your ability to enjoy being who you are. You can do this by writing scripts about the person or finding other ways of triggering this thought. Much of what you are describing suggests that you are hoping to control your thoughts one day, a concept which always gives OCD the upper hand. When you are no longer afraid of having certain kinds of thoughts, you stop setting up self-protective roadblocks. Then regardless of the content, your thoughts appear less threatening. C April 21, 2014 at 4:10 pm - Reply Hi Jon, Recently my thoughts have gone down a lot, but I still have a feeling that I might be gay. I’ve tried to face this fear but the feeling/thought is just telling me that this is really who I am and bringing all kinds of evidence out. I have a sense that this feeling is just fear and I’d like to eradicate it, so I’ve been trying some scripting and exposure. One thing that scares me the most is that someday I will just realize that I’m gay and that the evidence has been there all along. Right now if I made up my mind to do it I could probably just ignore this feeling and move on but my brain always wants me to check and see if it’s still there, and then figure out how to get rid of it (similar to “just right” ocd, I don’t want to move on without getting rid of this feeling because then i won’t feel just right!) If something good happens to me and I feel happy the feeling comes up again and says “yes but I’m still here and therefore you must be gay, just think of all of the close girl friends you have had and how little success you’ve had with boys, there must be a reason for that, it’s totally possible that you are gay” and it feels very real. Like I said, I’ve tried some scripting and exposure by looking up “how I realized I’m gay” stories online but since I’ve made progress on the actual anxiety it’s harder to put myself in the story and actually bring up the scary feelings. Doing things like that mostly just makes me want to cry instead of feeling any anxiety. I wish I could return to having crushes on guys instead of feeling like I am probably going to realize I’m a lesbian at any moment…. and in my logical mind I know I’m not a lesbian, but it’s like the emotional part of my mind disagrees and wants me to constantly try to attack this bad feeling. I’m not sure what to do, do you have any ideas for how to tackle this? Jonathan Hershfield April 25, 2014 at 9:16 pm - Reply >>>>>Recently my thoughts have gone down a lot, but I still have a feeling that I might be gay. I’ve tried to face this fear but the feeling/thought is just telling me that this is really who I am and bringing all kinds of evidence out. —How can a feeling or thought “bring out” evidence? Evidence is something that exists outside of the mind and can be collected and measured, such as the number of times you wake up naked next to members of the same sex. Thoughts and feelings are not evidence. Trying to get a feeling to go away only makes the inevitable presence of that feeling more problematic. A better strategy would be to accept the feelings as they are and choose behaviors based on your best guess in each present moment. >>>>I have a sense that this feeling is just fear and I’d like to eradicate it, so I’ve been trying some scripting and exposure. One thing that scares me the most is that someday I will just realize that I’m gay and that the evidence has been there all along. Right now if I made up my mind to do it I could probably just ignore this feeling and move on but my brain always wants me to check and see if it’s still there, and then figure out how to get rid of it (similar to “just right” ocd, I don’t want to move on without getting rid of this feeling because then i won’t feel just right!) If something good happens to me and I feel happy the feeling comes up again and says “yes but I’m still here and therefore you must be gay, just think of all of the close girl friends you have had and how little success you’ve had with boys, there must be a reason for that, it’s totally possible that you are gay” and it feels very real. —These are excellent insights and you should use this skill of yours, the skill of being able to articulate and pinpoint your fears, for making the most effective exposure scripts. >>>>Like I said, I’ve tried some scripting and exposure by looking up “how I realized I’m gay” stories online but since I’ve made progress on the actual anxiety it’s harder to put myself in the story and actually bring up the scary feelings. Doing things like that mostly just makes me want to cry instead of feeling any anxiety. I wish I could return to having crushes on guys instead of feeling like I am probably going to realize I’m a lesbian at any moment…. and in my logical mind I know I’m not a lesbian, but it’s like the emotional part of my mind disagrees and wants me to constantly try to attack this bad feeling. I’m not sure what to do, do you have any ideas for how to tackle this? —I would focus the ERP on making the most effective scripts, so the focus is as fear-based as possible. And I would look at any thing you avoid because it triggers the thoughts as something to confront. Actually, general exposures to ensure more frequent triggering would be good, such as putting up a triggering picture somewhere you might see it a lot. The issue of feeling frustrated with your thoughts and feelings not matching is a mindfulness issue, one in which you need to work on observing the thoughts and feelings as being whatever they are, rather than judging where you think they are supposed to be. George April 24, 2014 at 9:52 pm - Reply Hi, Ive been dealing with anxiety and ocd since my mid/late teens, am now 21. I have only recently been diagnosed and start treatment soon (hopefully). the vast majority of my experience with odd is about my health, but I have had problems with Harm and now sexual. In the past these ocd episodes seemed to last a couple of weeks, and slowly the thoughts would disappear and I would be back to feeling like myself. However Ive been crippled by HOCD for nearly 4 months now, and its made my life a living hell. At first the thoughts would cause a great deal of panic, but now its like its just part of my life and something I deal with everyday. I used to get good spells where I would feel great again, this could last a couple hours or a couple of days. But I can’t remember now the last time this happened. Its like I don’t know who I am anymore and it sucks, I used to be so happy with my life. I have thoughts whilst watching TV, whilst playing sport, with friends and even family sometimes. I don’t know how much more of this I can cope, I don’t understand how something like this could happen, its so bizarre. Its happened before and I have got over it, so why can’t I this time? I really have lost all hope of my normal thoughts ever coming back. To make it even worst, I have started to talking to a girl, who Is great and really attractive. However when I realised that something could happen with this girl, I have been overwhelmed by doubt. “what If I don’t get aroused when I’m with her”, “what if my ocd ruins the chance of a relationship” “what if my sex drive doesn’t come back” and so on. Its tearing me apart and I can only dream of how I would normally react in this situation. J May 9, 2014 at 4:27 pm - Reply I’m a 25 years old male, and since the end of last year, i’m having hocd. I had before at 16 (that lasted for years) when i almost have been raped in my first job. But i overcome this and hocd had gone. But i kept having ocd, fear of having cancer, fear of the world is not real (like matrix). I also always get really bad after watching porn, i fell like i’m cheating my gf with porn and become paranoid, i’m dating her for 5 years. But late last year, on a day i was really bad, paranoid because i had masturbated watching porn, the night before the day (i not slept the night to watch porn), in a joke in service, a friend pulled my arm on his penis, which i did not like. But i felt a strange feeling, i had no erection or anything, but it was a strange feeling down there. I started getting really scared and paranoid since then, always trying to confirm that i am straight. I know i’m straight, but my brain always tell me: if you are straight why you had this strange feeling? and i get more and more scared. This is messing up my life, studies and work. i’m begging for help. Jonathan Hershfield April 28, 2014 at 2:00 pm - Reply >>>>I’m a 25 years old male, and since the end of last year, i’m having hocd. I had before at 16 (that lasted for years) when i almost have been raped in my first job. But i overcome this and hocd had gone. —Sorry to hear about your traumatic experience, that must have ben difficult to cope with. >>>But i kept having ocd, fear of having cancer, fear of the world is not real (like matrix). —This is not an unusual obsession, people sometimes call it existential OCD. >>>I also always get really bad after watching porn, i fell like i’m cheating my gf with porn and become paranoid, i’m dating her for 5 years. But late last year, on a day i was really bad, paranoid because i had masturbated watching porn, the night before the day (i not slept the night to watch porn), in a joke in service, a friend pulled my arm on his penis, which i did not like. But i felt a strange feeling, i had no erection or anything, but it was a strange feeling down there. I started getting really scared and paranoid since then, always trying to confirm that i am straight. I know i’m straight, but my brain always tell me: if you are straight why you had this strange feeling? and i get more and more scared. —It sounds like there is a belief that being straight means not having any strange feelings. This is resulting in you doing compulsions to prove that the strange feeling does not mean you are gay, which is impossible and just fuels the obsession. >>>This is messing up my life, studies and work. i’m begging for help. —The treatment that works for OCD is cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) with exposure w/ response prevention (ERP). My recommendation is to get treatment, identify and resist compulsions, and confront your fear of uncertainty (for this, cancer, or anything else). D May 18, 2014 at 8:03 pm - Reply Hi, 30 year old male her. Ive been dealing with anxiety and depression for my whole life. Recently though OCD has been the worst. The OCD is much worse when I am anxious and or depressed. I finally got it under control though not till after my girlfriend and I broke up. I controlled the OCD with meds, ACT therapy, stopping avoidance behaviors, controlling sources of stress and quitting porn my previous favorite compulsive behavior. I must thank you and your blog for giving me the courage to go to therapy and treat this type of OCD. I still am dealing with some anxiety when feminine looking men talk with me. I am also afraid to commit deeper to the new girl I am dating for fear of hurting her. I previously had a dream of opening my own business but the OCD fears make me hesitant to talk to people though I am much better than only 3 months ago. Also on some days I wake up anxious and my libido becomes nonexistent this exacerbates my mental checking behaviors. Do you have any advice on speeding up recovery and preventing relapses? Jonathan Hershfield May 24, 2014 at 6:29 pm - Reply >>>>Hi, 30 year old male her. Ive been dealing with anxiety and depression for my whole life. Recently though OCD has been the worst. The OCD is much worse when I am anxious and or depressed. I finally got it under control though not till after my girlfriend and I broke up. I controlled the OCD with meds, ACT therapy, stopping avoidance behaviors, controlling sources of stress and quitting porn my previous favorite compulsive behavior. I must thank you and your blog for giving me the courage to go to therapy and treat this type of OCD. —Sounds like you’ve worked hard to overcome a lot of challenges. >>>>I still am dealing with some anxiety when feminine looking men talk with me. —This is an interesting subject. “Feminine men” (assuming we are talking about men who exhibit significant “flamboyant” traits”) often make people feel something. Could be anxiety, humor, disgust — all that depends on your experience I guess. The comedian Louis CK has a bit about why he thinks it’s ok to laugh at a gay person if they’re being what he thinks is silly, not just because of their orientation. Several times I have had HOCD clients tell me that they are very concerned because they felt uncomfortable when a very feminine-seeming man interacted with them. Some of it may be a fear of being sexually attracted or something directly related to the obsession, but I think at least some of this has to be black-and-white thinking about how you’re “supposed to” respond to people. This a long-winded way of me saying that maybe you need to accept that some people make you uncomfortable and just be uncomfortable instead of trying to do something about it. If you are finding that you are avoiding people with specific traits because of your OCD, then of course try to find ways to get more exposure to these people and resist the urge to make yourself feel good about it. >>>>I am also afraid to commit deeper to the new girl I am dating for fear of hurting her. I previously had a dream of opening my own business but the OCD fears make me hesitant to talk to people though I am much better than only 3 months ago. Also on some days I wake up anxious and my libido becomes nonexistent this exacerbates my mental checking behaviors. —This is very common and probably the absolute worst symptom associated with OCD – avoidance of life. I recommend you put your foot down and adamantly refuse to let your fear get in the way of your values. You value having a relationship – so pursue a relationship. If it means you have to risk destroying someone’s life in the process, you look the OCD in the eye and you say “worth it.” You value being a business man? Then take the risk that it will all fall apart because of your spontaneous escape from the closet. You might be wrong. If you’re wrong, you get to have a life filled with the pursuit of your values – that is, the equation for happiness. If your fears are accurate, you will still lead a life of values, but have to cope with some adjustments that may be difficult. But consider the worst nightmare of all – putting your life on hold and then one day discovering you didn’t have to and it’s too late. >>>>Do you have any advice on speeding up recovery and preventing relapses? —Don’t back down. Insist on non-avoidance of the things you care about. And of course, accept uncertainty. naina May 22, 2014 at 4:00 pm - Reply Hi jon Im 14 year old girl and i think i have cd I wanna share my story …… So around 2 years back i had this crazy obsession with all the electrical appliances .. I would make sure that i closed all of them before going 2 bed it started out as a precaution but it became a daily habit but it became so bad that i would repeatedly check again and again just 2 make sure the house dint get burned down or got burgled cause i dint lock the door properly it consumed a lot of time And i would end up going to bed really very late because of this And all of this checking had to be done in particular oder or i wud find myself in distress Then just a few days back i was reading an article in a magazine about gay people And a random thought popped into my head ” what if i am a lesbian ” ? Initially i brushed the thought away cause it sounded so stupid But slowly it really started bothering me and this thought kept me occupied for the whole day And i slipped into depression All day i would search the internet for answers I read about coming out stories and theey caused me terrible anxiety The feeling was like i always had before my maths exam A tight knot in my stomach and my heart pounding 🙁 It was all so confusing cause ever scince i entered puberty ive always liked guys and had numerous crushes on them . The only thing i ever wanted was a boyfriend . and ive never seen girls as a romantic interest nor have i ever had crushes on them . And i also go to a all girls school and ive never been attracted to my peers at school and now its like whenever i review my crushes over mentally in my head its like my brain is telling me that i dint like them or i just somehow convinced myself that i liked guys 2 repress my true lesbian self Somedays i feel 100 percent straight and the feers seem irrational and stupid but on bad days they seem so real they scare the crap outta me I even stopped watching t.v cause of fear of seeing someone attractive of the same sex Whenever i had gay thoughts i wud repeat the phrase ” im know im straight ” five times over I also began having wierd thoughts like maybe im not nice enoough to my grandma and thats why im having gay thoughts or i should keep my pair of specs on my dresser this way i wont have lesbian thoughts .. i know totally wierd but i did this stuff anyway Now whenever i go out i find myself doing a lot of checking whenever i see members of the same sex i think about kissing them It still dosnt feel right and it feels pretty disgusting so i think thank god this means im not a lesbian But again my brain finds a wayb2 manupilate my feelings and then i asm myself “did i really feel disgust or did i actually enjoy these thoughts “? Its so frustrating and i forced myself 2 watch t.v again but all i do is a lot of checking again I keep on playing imaginary secnarios in my head where im kissing a girl and then im kissing a boy and then i compare them Kissing a girl still dosnt feel right Gah it feels like im losing my old self 🙁 And i also had fears of bieng a pedophile now wenever i c children i get scared and think ” what if i touch them inappropriately ? And i feel so disgusted Sometimes my mind tells me that maybe im a disgusting person and i dont deserve to live Is this OCD ? I feel so bad all the time. Plzz help me Jonathan Hershfield May 24, 2014 at 7:06 pm - Reply >>>>Hi jon Im 14 year old girl and i think i have cd I wanna share my story …… —Brave of you to write. >>>>So around 2 years back i had this crazy obsession with all the electrical appliances .. I would make sure that i closed all of them before going 2 bed it started out as a precaution but it became a daily habit but it became so bad that i would repeatedly check again and again just 2 make sure the house dint get burned down or got burgled cause i dint lock the door properly it consumed a lot of time And i would end up going to bed really very late because of this And all of this checking had to be done in particular oder or i wud find myself in distress —This is a very common form of OCD. >>>>Then just a few days back i was reading an article in a magazine about gay people And a random thought popped into my head ” what if i am a lesbian ” ? Initially i brushed the thought away cause it sounded so stupid But slowly it really started bothering me and this thought kept me occupied for the whole day And i slipped into depression All day i would search the internet for answers —This is a common compulsive response to a common obsession. It can be especially potent for someone your age because your sexual mind is going through some developmental changes and this is making the issue of orientation seem super-important. >>>I read about coming out stories and theey caused me terrible anxiety The feeling was like i always had before my maths exam A tight knot in my stomach and my heart pounding 🙁 It was all so confusing cause ever scince i entered puberty ive always liked guys and had numerous crushes on them . The only thing i ever wanted was a boyfriend . and ive never seen girls as a romantic interest nor have i ever had crushes on them . And i also go to a all girls school and ive never been attracted to my peers at school and now its like whenever i review my crushes over mentally in my head its like my brain is telling me that i dint like them or i just somehow convinced myself that i liked guys 2 repress my true lesbian self —You need to recognize that reviewing crushes in your head is a mental ritual. Instead of repeatedly trying to get certainty that the electrical appliances are off, by checking them, you are repeatedly trying to get certainty that you aren’t gay by “checking” your memories of crushes. Your life is more functional when you assume the appliances have been turned off and accept that if the house burns down, you’ll deal with it. Same here. >>>>Somedays i feel 100 percent straight and the feers seem irrational and stupid but on bad days they seem so real they scare the crap outta me I even stopped watching t.v cause of fear of seeing someone attractive of the same sex —This form of avoidance pretty much guarantees that the obsessive thoughts will worsen and have more power ver you. Avoidance makes everything worse. Watch what you want to watch and accept that it may come with unwanted thoughts. The alternative is living in a smaller and smaller world until you can’t do anything at all. >>>Whenever i had gay thoughts i wud repeat the phrase ” im know im straight ” five times over —Major compulsion, which again only makes the obsession more powerful. >>>I also began having wierd thoughts like maybe im not nice enoough to my grandma and thats why im having gay thoughts or i should keep my pair of specs on my dresser this way i wont have lesbian thoughts .. i know totally wierd but i did this stuff anyway Now whenever i go out i find myself doing a lot of checking whenever i see members of the same sex i think about kissing them It still dosnt feel right and it feels pretty disgusting so i think thank god this means im not a lesbian But again my brain finds a wayb2 manupilate my feelings and then i asm myself “did i really feel disgust or did i actually enjoy these thoughts “? Its so frustrating and i forced myself 2 watch t.v again but all i do is a lot of checking again I keep on playing imaginary secnarios in my head where im kissing a girl and then im kissing a boy and then i compare them Kissing a girl still dosnt feel right —You have to watch tv without engaging in mental rituals or you are just demonstrating to your brain that tv is dangerous. >>>>Gah it feels like im losing my old self 🙁 And i also had fears of bieng a pedophile now wenever i c children i get scared and think ” what if i touch them inappropriately ? And i feel so disgusted Sometimes my mind tells me that maybe im a disgusting person and i dont deserve to live Is this OCD ? I feel so bad all the time. Plzz help me —I can’t diagnose you via a blog comment. But suffice it to say that if you told me you looked kind of like a striped horse and you lived in a zoo, I’d suggest you might be a zebra. My recommendation is that you get treatment for OCD, or at least seek out an OCD specialist and get an evaluation. Everything you described above is not only treatable, but common, meaning any decent ocd specialist would know how to help you navigate out of this web you found yourself in. And if you can regain control of your symptoms at this age, consider all the grief you’ve spared yourself in adulthood. Start by talking to your parents if they are people you can turn to. You might want to check out http://www.ocfoundation.org/ocdinkids/teens_young_adults/do_you_have_ocd.aspx and the other resources on that page. naina May 25, 2014 at 8:12 am - Reply Thanks a lot !! Any advice on how to approach my parents I spoke to my maa about it amd she just said it was harmones and i shouldnt be bothered about it .. I dont think we can afford a therapist at the moment Any advice on how to beat this monster ? I want to come back to leading a happy life … This ocd or whatever it is is ruining my life …..any self help books u can suggest ? Also i want to thank u for such wonderful articles on the subject of ocd Whenever i have such thoughts i end up reading your blog . ( i know compulsive behaviour ) il try 2 avoid it .. again thank u any help will be greatly appreciated Jonathan Hershfield June 7, 2014 at 3:57 am - Reply It depends on what kind of relationship you have with your parents. Ideally you could be open and honest with them, and by open and honest, I mean you can explain to them that this is not just hormones or normal teenage sexual confusion, but an obsession, something that keeps you awake at night. If therapy is unaffordable or inaccessible, the next best thing would be some books on the subject. There is a good booklist at ocfoundation.org and I believe there is a section specifically for teens. Michelle June 2, 2014 at 11:36 pm - Reply Hi Jon, I don’t know if this is what I have or not but I often come and read your articles and comments for relief from my anxiety which I am doing now. I am 25 and have been in my relationship with my boyfriend for 8 years. I have always known I have been attracted to men sexually and romantically and remember having crushed on guys and men. I have never doubted or questioned my sexuality until 8 months ago. I remember I started to doubt my sexuality and sexual orientation after reading a personal recovery story from an al anon book (because I am in the program). I remember reading it and relating to it because he was young and he described his relationship with his girlfriend of 5 years ending. Right around the time I read this story I was also contemplating whether I wanted to break up with my boyfriend or not. This guy then described falling in love with another women but then through the “safeness” of alanon started remembering memories of sexual abuse and then could face his homosexuality. I remember having an immediate pit in my stomach (like now) of “Is that me? What if I’m a lesbian and have been repressing it? What if I discover I’m a lesbian?” “What if I’ve been sexually abused and don’t remember and will remember by being in al-anon”. I was able for a week or two to push this away but then was so anxious I literally couldn’t sleep for 3 nights (falling asleep for 2 hours in the afternoon out of exhaustion but waking up anxious) and got a prescription for meds to help with the anxiety. I am now off of them though. So I worried about both of them. I have “tried” to remember if there is any indication I have been sexually abused even narrowing it down to who in my family could have possibly done this, WHICH is awful and there is no indication to do so, I could never tell them this and feel pretty horrible about this. Even like almost trying to create an imagination of it but obviously I can’t because I don’t remember this happening. I still fear I could have a memory about this one day. But the worrying that I might be bisexual or a lesbian is still here and I am constantly doubting. Is it normal for it to be really strong some days, even a week, some days there’s worry or thoughts without the anxiety, and then some days the anxiety is really strong? Or does this just mean I am trying to repress that I might be bisexual or a lesbian? I experimented once with kissing a friend of mine who is a girl when I was 14 but I never had romantic or sexual feelings for her, she basically asked me if I had ever kissed a girl and tried it. I have also been turned on watching lesbian porn. I seeked out another therapist who specialized in sexuality and sexual orientation issues who reassured me this doesn’t necessary have anything to with someones orientation. I felt relief after this for a while but I am still worried about it and often google to know it is common. I often ruminate through my past memories of any moment which may have indicated I had feelings for girls or friends that I ignored. Would I know by now if I had ignored them? I can honestly say (although I even doubt that I am even telling the truth here if that makes sense) that I have never desired to be romantically or sexually involved with a female. I have gotten anxiety now for women who are attractive but who before this hit, I would have just realized they were attractive looking, maybe wish I looked like them, and that’s all. This post is helpful though with denial and friendships because I have worried that i have just denied my feelings for my friends with my girl friends,, even though I never wanted to be sexual or romantic with them. Before dating my boyfriend, when I was in high school, I did have a few close guy friends but since then I can’t say I have any close guy friend. I have been pretty close with some of my girlfriends but have always considered them more like sisters. I make friends easier with girls and am pretty shy and intimated around guys, especially if I find them attractive. I also find it hard to flirt with them because I feel stupid or that I am going to make a fool out of myself. I generally have suffered from pretty low self esteem. But I am worried and doubt that his means it’s because I am actually more connected and attracted to women and could be bisexual? I’ve asked my boyfriend numerous times and a friend if they ever thought I could be a lesbian? I don’t know how to stop worrying about the future. About what if I could fall in love with a women after I’m married and have kids. I find that when I don’t feel anxious and feel “straight” (I know this really isnt significant) but then easily I can read something or hear something that gives me anxiety and starts me doubting again. Before this hit I was seriously doubting what my feelings were for my boyfriend and if I wanted to break up or not. If there was someone better, if I am just too scared to leave him, if there is someone better for me. 3 years ago he went on an exchange in school (which is stressful to begin with) and I was obsessively worrying about whether he was spending time with girls, would break up with me, or cheat on me although I really had no reason to believe this and he continuously showed me he loved me and wanted to be in a relationship with me, and I had a lot of anxiety around this time. I was always worrying about how much he loved me. We have a stronger relationship now and I love him and love spending time with him, I am attracted to him and we are talking about moving in together. I fear that I have been in denial about my sexual orientation or that I am somehow discovering it, or will in the future, and this is just something that is coming up so I can realize it before we get married and it makes it harder. I relate to many things people share on here and find myself googling about how to know if I am gay, coming out stories, ocd almost every day now. I jsut feel tortured and controlled by this, it’s been so long, I find it hard to focus on other things. Do you have any advice? Jonathan Hershfield June 7, 2014 at 4:29 pm - Reply >>>Hi Jon, I don’t know if this is what I have or not but I often come and read your articles and comments for relief from my anxiety which I am doing now. —Sounds like OCD. >>>I am 25 and have been in my relationship with my boyfriend for 8 years. I have always known I have been attracted to men sexually and romantically and remember having crushed on guys and men. I have never doubted or questioned my sexuality until 8 months ago. I remember I started to doubt my sexuality and sexual orientation after reading a personal recovery story from an al anon book (because I am in the program). I remember reading it and relating to it because he was young and he described his relationship with his girlfriend of 5 years ending. Right around the time I read this story I was also contemplating whether I wanted to break up with my boyfriend or not. This guy then described falling in love with another women but then through the “safeness” of alanon started remembering memories of sexual abuse and then could face his homosexuality. I remember having an immediate pit in my stomach (like now) of “Is that me? What if I’m a lesbian and have been repressing it? What if I discover I’m a lesbian?” “What if I’ve been sexually abused and don’t remember and will remember by being in al-anon”. I was able for a week or two to push this away but then was so anxious I literally couldn’t sleep for 3 nights (falling asleep for 2 hours in the afternoon out of exhaustion but waking up anxious) and got a prescription for meds to help with the anxiety. I am now off of them though. —Those are a lot of “what-ifs.” >>>>So I worried about both of them. I have “tried” to remember if there is any indication I have been sexually abused even narrowing it down to who in my family could have possibly done this, WHICH is awful and there is no indication to do so, I could never tell them this and feel pretty horrible about this. Even like almost trying to create an imagination of it but obviously I can’t because I don’t remember this happening. I still fear I could have a memory about this one day. —This is a compulsion. I have encountered a few people with what they sometimes call “false memory” obsessions wherein they become concerned that something may be buried in there that they have to figure out. It’s unfortunate because a lot of time gets wasted in a fictional past while the present continues to be left behind. >>>>But the worrying that I might be bisexual or a lesbian is still here and I am constantly doubting. Is it normal for it to be really strong some days, even a week, some days there’s worry or thoughts without the anxiety, and then some days the anxiety is really strong? Or does this just mean I am trying to repress that I might be bisexual or a lesbian? —No idea. Anxiety is a part of life and comes and goes in the general population. OCD is a mental disorder that includes obsessions and compulsions, impairs functioning, and takes at least an hour a day of obsessing or compulsing. It waxes and wanes throughout one’s life and appears to go up and down for several reasons, including stress. >>>I experimented once with kissing a friend of mine who is a girl when I was 14 but I never had romantic or sexual feelings for her, she basically asked me if I had ever kissed a girl and tried it. I have also been turned on watching lesbian porn. I seeked out another therapist who specialized in sexuality and sexual orientation issues who reassured me this doesn’t necessary have anything to with someones orientation. I felt relief after this for a while but I am still worried about it and often google to know it is common. —It would be very convenient if reassurance worked, but unfortunately it doesn’t when you have OCD. You saw a sex specialist who told you that you have no reason to think you are gay, but you have an informational bias that pushes you to constantly discount information that conflicts with your obsession. Googling is just another form of compulsive reassurance seeking and backfires accordingly. >>>>I often ruminate through my past memories of any moment which may have indicated I had feelings for girls or friends that I ignored. Would I know by now if I had ignored them? I can honestly say (although I even doubt that I am even telling the truth here if that makes sense) that I have never desired to be romantically or sexually involved with a female. I have gotten anxiety now for women who are attractive but who before this hit, I would have just realized they were attractive looking, maybe wish I looked like them, and that’s all. —The question is why you think this is information you’ve collected during the course of a mental ritual is useful or important information. >>>This post is helpful though with denial and friendships because I have worried that i have just denied my feelings for my friends with my girl friends,, even though I never wanted to be sexual or romantic with them. Before dating my boyfriend, when I was in high school, I did have a few close guy friends but since then I can’t say I have any close guy friend. I have been pretty close with some of my girlfriends but have always considered them more like sisters. I make friends easier with girls and am pretty shy and intimated around guys, especially if I find them attractive. I also find it hard to flirt with them because I feel stupid or that I am going to make a fool out of myself. I generally have suffered from pretty low self esteem. But I am worried and doubt that his means it’s because I am actually more connected and attracted to women and could be bisexual? I’ve asked my boyfriend numerous times and a friend if they ever thought I could be a lesbian? I don’t know how to stop worrying about the future. About what if I could fall in love with a women after I’m married and have kids. —You seem to want certainty about the future, which is not possible. If you put your life on hold because of your fears about the future, you are likely to be disappointed with the results. If you guess and pursue the things of value to you in the present, you may find that the future works out just fine and that you don’t need to know ahed of time exactly how. >>>I find that when I don’t feel anxious and feel “straight” (I know this really isnt significant) but then easily I can read something or hear something that gives me anxiety and starts me doubting again. Before this hit I was seriously doubting what my feelings were for my boyfriend and if I wanted to break up or not. If there was someone better, if I am just too scared to leave him, if there is someone better for me. 3 years ago he went on an exchange in school (which is stressful to begin with) and I was obsessively worrying about whether he was spending time with girls, would break up with me, or cheat on me although I really had no reason to believe this and he continuously showed me he loved me and wanted to be in a relationship with me, and I had a lot of anxiety around this time. I was always worrying about how much he loved me. We have a stronger relationship now and I love him and love spending time with him, I am attracted to him and we are talking about moving in together. —Relationship obsessions are common in OCD. >>>I fear that I have been in denial about my sexual orientation or that I am somehow discovering it, or will in the future, and this is just something that is coming up so I can realize it before we get married and it makes it harder. I relate to many things people share on here and find myself googling about how to know if I am gay, coming out stories, ocd almost every day now. I jsut feel tortured and controlled by this, it’s been so long, I find it hard to focus on other things. Do you have any advice? —You should take the risk that you are denial and get treatment for OCD from an OCD specialist who can teach you how to stop doing compulsions and embrace the present before you run out of time on Earth dwelling on the past and future. Ryan June 12, 2014 at 11:02 am - Reply Hi Jon, For the past month or so I’ve been working on stopping compulsions. I no longer engage in avoidance in watching tv and seeing friends, I just try living with the groinal responses and thoughts without judgement. I get groinal responses without anxiety which upsets me but I know there’s no definitive answer for them. However, the one compulsion I keep engaging in is checking to see if I’m attracted to men. How do you normally help your patients combat this? I don’t feel anxiety over these thoughts/feelings anymore, but I get a groinal response every time I’m touched by a man. I don’t want to ask I reassuring question but throughout this process I have progressively felt more gay, and I can’t help but get upset by it at times. Jonathan Hershfield June 20, 2014 at 7:05 pm - Reply >>>>For the past month or so I’ve been working on stopping compulsions. I no longer engage in avoidance in watching tv and seeing friends, I just try living with the groinal responses and thoughts without judgement. I get groinal responses without anxiety which upsets me but I know there’s no definitive answer for them. —What upsets you is probably the idea that you’re not supposed to have groinal responses to things. But groins have responses to things. >>>>However, the one compulsion I keep engaging in is checking to see if I’m attracted to men. How do you normally help your patients combat this? I don’t feel anxiety over these thoughts/feelings anymore, but I get a groinal response every time I’m touched by a man. I don’t want to ask I reassuring question but throughout this process I have progressively felt more gay, and I can’t help but get upset by it at times. —When you say you are checking to see if you are attracted, you need to recognize this behavior as a compulsion and abandon it when you catch it. One way to do this is to expose to the idea that maybe you are attracted to men and to welcome having a groinal response. “Feeling gay” doesn’t mean something in particular. It’s a feeling. naina June 22, 2014 at 6:43 am - Reply Hi jon I wanna ask some questions …why do all of my other obbsesions dont alarm me as much as hocd doesi mean that ive had pedophile and trangender obbsessions bt they never caused me as much as anxiety tat my homosexual obsessions do ….. And my ocd has moved on to another thing ever scince the recent demise of my father im obbsesed that another one of my family member will die so i have to count upto 12 five times over .. And why does my hocd revolve around my friends my mind keeps telling me that i love my best friend on a romantic way ..its so frustrating ive always had sisterly affections for her .. And uh one more thing whenever i feel extreme anxiety i start shaking so badly and i cant breathe properly .. This thing wasnt so bad until my father passed away . Now after the traumatic incident i had a full blown panic attack and i thought i was gonna die when my family rushed me to the emergency room where the docter diagnosed me with hyperventilation syndrome Idk whats wrong with me .. Plzz help .. im scared that il start hyperventilating in public where uts gonna be dead embarrasing ..:'(:'( Jonathan Hershfield July 3, 2014 at 2:00 pm - Reply >>>>I wanna ask some questions …why do all of my other obbsesions dont alarm me as much as hocd doesi mean that ive had pedophile and trangender obbsessions bt they never caused me as much as anxiety tat my homosexual obsessions do ….. —You are likely doing more compulsions in response to your thoughts about sexual orientation than in response to your other intrusive thoughts. >>>>And my ocd has moved on to another thing ever scince the recent demise of my father im obbsesed that another one of my family member will die so i have to count upto 12 five times over .. —Sorry for your loss. Counting compulsions are common in OCD. The first thing I would recommend is that you stop saying you “have to” count and instead acknowledge that you make the choice to count in order to relieve your discomfort with thoughts of your family. The problem is that the counting behavior only validates the idea that you have magic powers to protect family members, when you do not. >>>>And why does my hocd revolve around my friends my mind keeps telling me that i love my best friend on a romantic way ..its so frustrating ive always had sisterly affections for her .. —The OCD does whatever works. The thought that you could be sexually attracted to your friend makes you feel like you have to engage in rituals, which strengthen the OCD. >>>>And uh one more thing whenever i feel extreme anxiety i start shaking so badly and i cant breathe properly .. This thing wasnt so bad until my father passed away . Now after the traumatic incident i had a full blown panic attack and i thought i was gonna die when my family rushed me to the emergency room where the docter diagnosed me with hyperventilation syndrome Idk whats wrong with me .. Plzz help .. im scared that il start hyperventilating in public where uts gonna be dead embarrasing ..:’(:’( —-Sounds like panic disorder, which primarily consists of panic attacks and the fear of having panic attacks. It is treatable with CBT and sometimes medication. The first thing you need to be careful with is not avoiding public situations. Once you start avoiding, it can get progressively worse. Better to risk panic in public and embarrass yourself than isolate yourself from the world. john June 28, 2014 at 7:12 am - Reply hiee sir great article.i think im also suffering from same but some doubts.i have obsessions sex with family members children etcthat made me felt guilt.i was so terified by it.i remember i have one same sex experience in my childhood.which made me think im gay and my friend commented are you gay.i then started doing mentally checking am i aroused by men.whole day i used to search net learning about gays.i was terrified by it.my chilhood experience also made me terrified and feared that i might act upon it again.i had gronial responses seeing movies i was terrifies and went into depression.then i read your article and found that it is hocd. but i have 2 thoughts two thoughts discuss 1st-i admire mens look like nice hair style cool look smart. is this attraction i just admire them just thoughts 2nd-i got sensation in mouth i was disgussted by it but i felt i enjoying it.but then i think its totally illogical why am i thinking myself as gay. ive alaways loved girls girls are attracted to me im attracted to them.ive always been mad about them whole day i used to think about them.i always fantasy girls.i cannot imagine myself with guys.nor sex.but i read the word homophobia and denial now i doubt am denying or am i bisexual or gay.help me sir i waste my whole day serching net to reassue my self. Jonathan Hershfield July 3, 2014 at 2:04 pm - Reply You describe several symptoms of OCD and then appear to be asking reassurance about what is or is not attraction. I would recommend you admire what you admire and accept that you get sensations sometimes. As for spending all day searching the net, you will need to stop that compulsion in order to overcome your obsession. v July 23, 2014 at 5:28 am - Reply Hello Jon, thanks for your patience in listening to us prattle on about the same crap all the time!! I have made great progress via ERP, listening to a “worst case scenario” of realizing that I am a lesbian, pursuing a gay relationship and in the process destroying my relationship with my husband and children. As a result, my obsessions dwindled away and I felt a freedom I had not felt before, it was lovely. Prior to that, ever since I met my husband (20+ years ago), I always had this sense that I had to be “on my guard” against the evil gay monster in my head, just waiting in the wings to come and stuff everything around. Sounds bizarre!! I would try to “force” the thoughts away, and at my worst (some 10 years ago), would have to have a small photo of my husband on the dashboard of my car, which I would have to look at whilst driving so that I could keep my mind on him and not let my mind stray. OK to let my car stray all over the road, but don’t you dare let that mind stray, girl!! Anyway, I probably got too comfortable, and also my doc was so pleased with my progress that she cut down my meds, very slowly I might add, and about 6 weeks on being on a 1/4 of my original dose the thoughts started to slowly creep back in, and predictably I have taken the bait and reacted with sirens blaring and alarm bells ringing. What really worries me is that sometimes when I try to “let myself go”,I don’t feel as anxious, but I feel very very selfish and detached from my husband and children, quite robotic and definitely not present, like I don’t give a shit anymore and actually WANT to walk out on them all. Then the thought will come “how could you think such a thing???See??? THATS why you can’t be too careful, otherwise you will do something terrible and lose everything!!! It is like there is really something dark and self destructive inside that actually wants to stuff it up. And yet when I say to myself’ “OK, so if you want to leave, just do it then!”, it’s like I am screaming out to myself, “NOOOO!!! I don’t want to do that at all!”. What a nutjob! It’s actually almost funny to type it up and read it, it’s so silly. I just deal with this by trying to let the feeling be and get on with my day, but it is very scary. I pass women on the street, or in a car, and I don’t have to even see their faces, I just feel like I have to keep a small part of the thought of that woman in my head. It’s not even a sexual thought, but just thinking about them, wheras before I would need to force that thought out of my head and get my mind back on my husband, now I am just trying to let it be there and ignore it. But the fear is that the longer I let the thoughts of women remain in my head, the more I will turn into…you guessed it….a cane toad (joking, you know what I mean). A part of me wants to let the thoughts be there, feels almost like an addiction or something. What’s up with that?? I can’t help but wonder if those feelings are just tricks to try to get me to go back to hyper-control, because that’s how I felt safe before. Hmmm, food for thought. Any thoughts/ideas??? Jonathan Hershfield July 23, 2014 at 5:20 pm - Reply Hi V, though you mostly seem to have a good handle on what is going on, there seems to be a part of you clinging to the idea that the thoughts themselves are problematic and should be absent. The thoughts are in fact normal events that you are over-responding to, stirring up a cycle of obsessing and compulsing. You describe the thoughts as “creeping back in” as if they were blocked out and found a way to return through a secret entrance. The thoughts never left, nor should they have. They are thoughts. If you enjoy them, enjoy them whether they reflect your behavioral choices in life or not. If you do not enjoy them, then notice that and accept that you don’t get to pick and choose which thoughts pop up on your radar at any given time. Might as well invite it all and take the risk of accepting uncertainty. Catie July 25, 2014 at 4:16 pm - Reply Man, I hate the idea of having OCD or any diagnosis for that matter. But I go from therapist to therapist (have been since I was a teenager–talk about denial) and finally after like 14 years it’s beginning to sink in and I cry out of self pity that this is struggle is real. I am studying to get a counseling degree now myself and it’s been a big eye opener, particularly when you can look back through your parent’s generation and grandparent’s generation and start to put the pieces of the puzzle together that there are others who have anxiety and panic attacks and intrusive thoughts. Often, I’d go to the hospital with a panic attack feeling all nauseous, not being able to breathe right, thinking it was something else. My themes move around from a)I’m a pedophile (gotten over this one) to b) i’ve been sexually abused to c)I’m goign to harm my spouse or any potential future children to d)I’m a lesbian and need to leave my marriage to be true to myself and then all this pain will go away e)I have a disease (went to the doctors quite often begging them to test me and google ridiculously about all sorts of diseases). Doctors keep telling me it’s anxiety and they can only prescribe anxiety meds (which I rarely take despite them prescribing it to me) e)I’m really a man on the inside or have high testosterone levels so I’d check my voice, my finger length, hair growth on my body, etc. (I want to cry right now actually saying this) and f) when my therapist tells me this isn’t about my sexuality I don’t believe her. I think she just doesn’t accept me for who I am or understands me. G)I obsess about my relationship and think I’m in the wrong relationship, I’m with the wrong person, I’m too scared to leave, I’m afraid to be alone, I’m afraid I’m going to lose myself fin the relationship if I stay (etc. etc. etc.). (I’ll add that relationship anxiety follows me from one relationship to the next.). I’ve been to four therapists who all tell me the same thing…a)you have O.C.D. and anxiety and dependency issues. They really don’t seem to help me cope with the sexuality piece that matters to me so I just keep going from therapist to therapist. I’m not sure what to do at this point. I know im getting better cuz I did some ERP and went to LGBT support groups and conferences. I even read LGBT literature to help me. I admit I used to feel spiked whenever I saw people that looked gay but now I am doing much better about it. I know I am attracted to women and know I am on the spectrum. Likin women doesn’t scare me anymore and it doesn’t make me feel shame. So on some level the OCD is there and is real but on another, my sexuality is real too and I want certainty on all of it but I’m not sure what is the boundary line. I don’t want to deny who I am (which is a woman on the spectrum who is fluid) but I also don’t want to keep checking and ruminating about everything either. I’m not sure what to do. I just want the anxiety to go away and learn to trust myself and tolerate uncertainty. Jonathan Hershfield July 26, 2014 at 4:32 pm - Reply >>>>Man, I hate the idea of having OCD or any diagnosis for that matter. —Why? I would rather know that what I was going through was common, well-understood, and treatable. >>>>But I go from therapist to therapist (have been since I was a teenager–talk about denial) and finally after like 14 years it’s beginning to sink in and I cry out of self pity that this is struggle is real. I am studying to get a counseling degree now myself and it’s been a big eye opener, particularly when you can look back through your parent’s generation and grandparent’s generation and start to put the pieces of the puzzle together that there are others who have anxiety and panic attacks and intrusive thoughts. Often, I’d go to the hospital with a panic attack feeling all nauseous, not being able to breathe right, thinking it was something else. —That must have been scary. >>>>My themes move around from a)I’m a pedophile (gotten over this one) to b) i’ve been sexually abused to c)I’m goign to harm my spouse or any potential future children to d)I’m a lesbian and need to leave my marriage to be true to myself and then all this pain will go away e)I have a disease (went to the doctors quite often begging them to test me and google ridiculously about all sorts of diseases). —These are all very common OCD manifestations. >>>>Doctors keep telling me it’s anxiety and they can only prescribe anxiety meds (which I rarely take despite them prescribing it to me) —Why go for a psychiatric evaluation and not follow psychiatric advice? >>>> e)I’m really a man on the inside or have high testosterone levels so I’d check my voice, my finger length, hair growth on my body, etc. (I want to cry right now actually saying this) and f) when my therapist tells me this isn’t about my sexuality I don’t believe her. I think she just doesn’t accept me for who I am or understands me. —It sounds like your therapist is using reassurance as a strategy, which is ineffective for OCD and typically makes things worse. >>>>G)I obsess about my relationship and think I’m in the wrong relationship, I’m with the wrong person, I’m too scared to leave, I’m afraid to be alone, I’m afraid I’m going to lose myself fin the relationship if I stay (etc. etc. etc.). (I’ll add that relationship anxiety follows me from one relationship to the next.). I’ve been to four therapists who all tell me the same thing…a)you have O.C.D. and anxiety and dependency issues. They really don’t seem to help me cope with the sexuality piece that matters to me so I just keep going from therapist to therapist. —Sorry you’re having difficulty finding a therapist who’s a good fit for you. >>>>I’m not sure what to do at this point. I know im getting better cuz I did some ERP and went to LGBT support groups and conferences. I even read LGBT literature to help me. I admit I used to feel spiked whenever I saw people that looked gay but now I am doing much better about it. I know I am attracted to women and know I am on the spectrum. Likin women doesn’t scare me anymore and it doesn’t make me feel shame. So on some level the OCD is there and is real but on another, my sexuality is real too and I want certainty on all of it but I’m not sure what is the boundary line. I don’t want to deny who I am (which is a woman on the spectrum who is fluid) but I also don’t want to keep checking and ruminating about everything either. I’m not sure what to do. I just want the anxiety to go away and learn to trust myself and tolerate uncertainty. —Sounds like your heart is in the right place. I would emphasize the uncertainty tolerance over the anxiety reduction. If the focus is on changing the way you feel, you are likely to do compulsions. If the focus is on addressing behavior (as in choosing behaviors that reflect a person who accept uncertainty), you will see better results. For people who experience attractions to both the opposite and same sex and accept this, the OCD can still make you feel like you need certainty about where you fall on the spectrum. You don’t. In fact, what you need is to never know and instead become adept at accepting your thoughts and feelings as they come and go. Catie July 25, 2014 at 4:23 pm - Reply I’m scared to do this OCD work cuz I do’nt think I have it. I’m not scared to do the LGBT work. I’m good with facing that. Like I feel proud to be on the spectrum and I identify as bisexual. I’m proud to not be like everybody else. l add that when my therapist tells me this isn’t about my sexuality (She’s a vet in the field for 35 years and specializes in sexuality but I still tell her it is about it but she says “you like to go there and ruminate you are gay and have to leave your marriage but I do’nt think your issues are about that). But I still know that’s not totally true. Yet what she says mirrors what all the other therapists say so I’m not sure what to do at this point. I’ll add that both my mom and grandma go to the hospital with panic attacks too and they never think it’s a panic attack so i tend to believ ethem and think it’s something else and just don’t believe the doctors. but now it’s starting to sink in for me and my mom too (who is finally goign to a therapist at 60). so maybe there is an issue of ocd. Jonathan Hershfield July 26, 2014 at 4:36 pm - Reply >>>>I’m scared to do this OCD work cuz I do’nt think I have it. —That’s somewhat inconsistent from your earlier post in which you described having almost every OCD symptom I have ever heard of. >>>>I’m not scared to do the LGBT work. I’m good with facing that. Like I feel proud to be on the spectrum and I identify as bisexual. I’m proud to not be like everybody else. —-Great! >>>l add that when my therapist tells me this isn’t about my sexuality (She’s a vet in the field for 35 years and specializes in sexuality but I still tell her it is about it but she says “you like to go there and ruminate you are gay and have to leave your marriage but I do’nt think your issues are about that). But I still know that’s not totally true. Yet what she says mirrors what all the other therapists say so I’m not sure what to do at this point. —If you want to treat the OCD, the best approach would be to do exposure of some kind to your fear that sexuality issues are being poorly addressed and may have negative consequences you may have to cope with. This could probably be done with imaginal exposure scripts, but also needs to include the elimination of reassurance-seeking with your therapist and others. >>>>I’ll add that both my mom and grandma go to the hospital with panic attacks too and they never think it’s a panic attack so i tend to believ ethem and think it’s something else and just don’t believe the doctors. but now it’s starting to sink in for me and my mom too (who is finally goign to a therapist at 60). so maybe there is an issue of ocd. —Yeah, maybe. If you’re feeling stuck, usually that means it is time to try something different. That something-different may be owning your OCD diagnosis and treating it. Catie July 25, 2014 at 4:28 pm - Reply I got over the pedophile one too with ERP cuz of babysitting my niece and nephews and godson a lot. i mean i had lots of triggers in the beginnign but it seemed to move to another theme for me. I’m not saying this doens’t come back from time to time but it’s gone away for now. That was really the proof that i knew i had OCD cuz i actually believe the thoughts. but hocd? That’ snot something I believe i have but yet i obsess about it. odd cuz i’m bisexual so it’s confusing for me. Jonathan Hershfield July 26, 2014 at 4:38 pm - Reply If I understand correctly, you seem to be implying that you can’t be bisexual and have OCD at the same time. This is untrue. You have an obsession about your sexual orientation, whatever words you want to use to label it, and you engage in compulsions to feel certain that your definition of orientation is accurate or appropriately related to somehow. Michelle May 5, 2015 at 4:21 am - Reply First, thank you so much for the work that you do and the helping hand/support you give to others. So this anxiety/thoughts/doubt has never fully left. It seemed to be manageable for a bit. Or maybe just other things took over along with some depressive moods. But my anxiety and doubt around “what if/maybe I am bisexual” has been triggered by a coworker at a new job who I know is female dating a female. I find I am anxious and doubting/trying to figure out if I am attracted to her? Or maybe I am and the anxiety is just mixing me up? I sense my anxiety waa triggered more when I found out she is dating a women. But I can’t be sure. I can’t figure out if there was a “I could be with her/date her” attraction before or just an “I think she’s cool and we get along”. I definitely find i keep trying to imagine if i would enjoy doing relationship/sexual stuff with her and while most of the time I conclude no, i doubt that answer anyways. Then other times I try to just take a mindful/accepting approach towards ” maybe it is an attraction (or crush) and i can deal with it and I still want to be with my bf” but I still get anxiety, I still get doubt and I still get so preoccupied with this in my head. Part of me feels that before this anxiety/doubt about my sexual orientation hit I could acknowledge that she is an attractive woman and that would be that. No anxiety. But now the fact that I do notice and that she is a,bisexual or lesbian, actually causes me more anxiety. And then a ton of questions run through my head like “Does it mean there is more potential for me to be attracted to her because she in fact is bisexual or lesbian?” “If this piece has caused me more anxiety, why?” I even get, maybe an intrusive feeling but also the thought “what if she can sense I am attracted to her (or bisexual/lesbian) and can tell I just haven’t accepted it yet or am denying?”. And a whole wack of other questions/thoughts. I have had days (mainly not at work) where I seem to think and feel that its not a sexual attraction but then I doubt “maybe this is just part of sexual fluidity and I am awakening to a same sex attraction”. Does it make sense if I say this anxiety/doubt stuff sometimes feels like its this whole other world, this whole other me. But then other times it just feels like it IS me and if I could just settle the doubt/anxiety everything would be okay? I also feel so fed up and stuck with this. To the point that I really doubt who I ever was and am. Like how do I know the REAL me and the GENUINE me? How do i know the real me has been attracted to and interested in my bf this whole time if I doubt so much? Sometimes I can’t even figure out what attraction is. And i ask my bf and he ” just knows” so it causes me more doubt. Times like this I do wish I could just be with my lovely bf without all this doubt. I keep looking up therapists in my region but can’t seem to follow through with contacting them. So many “what ifs” go through my head. If I were to get assessed and get treatment (and what if they just send me off thinking I’m in denial?) And get CBT at the minimum but realize I have true attraction to women, would the CBT still help with the anxiety I feel and at the least to find clarity? Like I wouldn’t be denying a part of myself (if it were attraction and not anxiety) if I did do CBT? Michelle May 5, 2015 at 4:40 am - Reply I want to add that it’s not just the fact that this coworker is an attractive woman (or that I find her attractive – I have always been able acknowledge women are attractive without doubting what it means) that spikes my anxiety. But in the mix I also keep questioning and trying to figure out if I am attracted TO her personality and TO her or if its just that I have noticed that I think she is cool and find that she has a cool personality, like I could with anyone else and before this major anxiety/doubt. Is this just a way to find certainty? I don’t if this is an attraction to her but it has caused me a lot of anxiety. To my best certainty I do not recall having felt an attraction, or more so a sexual attraction, FOR a woman before this anxiety. I know you can’t give me the answer or what it all means. But if its true that I may have to deal with anxiety/doubt (I dont know if irs OCD) AND an awakening to an attraction to women, would CBT still help? Jon Hershfield May 5, 2015 at 4:47 pm - Reply You would be best suited identifying your attempts to know for certain what KIND of attraction it is as a compulsion. CBT from an OCD specialist would help you better identify and resist compulsions. Jon Hershfield May 5, 2015 at 4:45 pm - Reply >>>>First, thank you so much for the work that you do and the helping hand/support you give to others. So this anxiety/thoughts/doubt has never fully left. It seemed to be manageable for a bit. Or maybe just other things took over along with some depressive moods. But my anxiety and doubt around “what if/maybe I am bisexual” has been triggered by a coworker at a new job who I know is female dating a female. I find I am anxious and doubting/trying to figure out if I am attracted to her? Or maybe I am and the anxiety is just mixing me up? —-Trying to figure out what you’re attracted to is what’s mixing you up. >>>>I sense my anxiety waa triggered more when I found out she is dating a women. But I can’t be sure. I can’t figure out if there was a “I could be with her/date her” attraction before or just an “I think she’s cool and we get along”. —Why is it important to know the difference for certain? >>>>I definitely find i keep trying to imagine if i would enjoy doing relationship/sexual stuff with her and while most of the time I conclude no, i doubt that answer anyways. —This is a compulsion I refer to as “scenario bending” in The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD. >>>>Then other times I try to just take a mindful/accepting approach towards ” maybe it is an attraction (or crush) and i can deal with it and I still want to be with my bf” but I still get anxiety, I still get doubt and I still get so preoccupied with this in my head. —It would be helpful is stopped framing success as the absence of anxiety. Anxiety is a normal human emption that people experience from time to time, made worse primarily by attempts not to feel it. >>>>Part of me feels that before this anxiety/doubt about my sexual orientation hit I could acknowledge that she is an attractive woman and that would be that. No anxiety. But now the fact that I do notice and that she is a,bisexual or lesbian, actually causes me more anxiety. And then a ton of questions run through my head like “Does it mean there is more potential for me to be attracted to her because she in fact is bisexual or lesbian?” “If this piece has caused me more anxiety, why?” I even get, maybe an intrusive feeling but also the thought “what if she can sense I am attracted to her (or bisexual/lesbian) and can tell I just haven’t accepted it yet or am denying?”. And a whole wack of other questions/thoughts. I have had days (mainly not at work) where I seem to think and feel that its not a sexual attraction but then I doubt “maybe this is just part of sexual fluidity and I am awakening to a same sex attraction”. Does it make sense if I say this anxiety/doubt stuff sometimes feels like its this whole other world, this whole other me. But then other times it just feels like it IS me and if I could just settle the doubt/anxiety everything would be okay? —Yes, that’s what it feels like to have OCD and be stuck on something. You are doing in your head what some people do by washing their hands a lot. >>>>I also feel so fed up and stuck with this. To the point that I really doubt who I ever was and am. Like how do I know the REAL me and the GENUINE me? How do i know the real me has been attracted to and interested in my bf this whole time if I doubt so much? Sometimes I can’t even figure out what attraction is. And i ask my bf and he ” just knows” so it causes me more doubt. Times like this I do wish I could just be with my lovely bf without all this doubt. I keep looking up therapists in my region but can’t seem to follow through with contacting them. So many “what ifs” go through my head. If I were to get assessed and get treatment (and what if they just send me off thinking I’m in denial?) And get CBT at the minimum but realize I have true attraction to women, would the CBT still help with the anxiety I feel and at the least to find clarity? Like I wouldn’t be denying a part of myself (if it were attraction and not anxiety) if I did do CBT? —CBT combines the approach of challenging distorted ways of thinking (cognitive) with modifying unhelpful behaviors to be helpful (behavioral). I’m not sure if your question has an answer, but at a guess I would presume that what you are seeking is some kind of clarity, which is really only attainable when you stop doing compulsions and entertaining all of these “what-ifs” in your head. CBT can do that. Miguel June 2, 2015 at 6:06 am - Reply Hello Jon, I’ve done a ton of research on OCD this past year and I would say you’re articles are the most insightful I’ve read thus far. I’ve never been “formally” diagnosed, but I’ve had OCD since I was younger and my brother pointed it out while watching an episode of MTV’s “True Life” based on the disorder. I began with compulsions,like bending my middle fingers on the table and rolling my eyes back and saying “I believe in the De-God!” almost like a battle between good an bad in my head. I would be on the verge of saying “The Devil” but ultimately God triumphed. I would run upstairs to my room where I had a crucifix over my headboard and in a similar fashion, but kneeling would utter “THANK YOU GOOOOOOOOD” at the top of my lungs. To this day, I have strange instances where out of nowhere i feel the need to dart my eyes towards all the religious objects in my room and perform this ritual. I would also hate the idea or mention of death related themes. For the longest I would avoid saying things like my phone battery “died” . To me the battery had simply ran out and I would ask people to “take it back” as in take back the phrase “died”. When I went away to college my OCD just disappeared out of thin air. I was fine until I stumbled upon my first ever real relationship about a year ago. My girlfriend had made a remark like “that’s so gay” and that’s really what set the motion going of my current sexuality obsessed OCD spectrum. I’ve never experienced groinal response or any of the other severe symptoms like thoughts of suicide, for me it’s been most endless ruminations and examining myself and other to see if I give off “gay” cues or if there are people that “seem” gay based off there appearance and can see something in me that I fail to see. It also seems like I’m also obsessed with the outcome of my relationship. I literally search OCD related material damn near every day, and I believe it has become a compulsion. It actually seems like my obsessions are gravitating away from my sexuality, and I have just become obsessed with the idea of obsessing, if that makes any form of sense? I’ve purchased your Mindfulness book but I have yet to actually utilize it, so far the techniques I’ve picked up from various resources have helped me cope, or atleast calm my obsessions. I guess what I’m really writing to ask you is, if your personal OCD ever delved in to your sexuality and your experiences with it and what were other spectrums of OCD that you personally had to battle with? I find it pretty damn cool that you were able to make the transition from sufferer to healer, and that your work especially has really made me consider working with OCD patients. Jon Hershfield June 18, 2015 at 4:45 pm - Reply Glad you find my blog pieces helpful and I hope you benefit from The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD too! I’m not clear why you knowing the personal details of my OCD history will help though. Let’s just presume I’ve had a wide variety of interesting thoughts and have learned through CBT how best to relate to them. Miguel June 2, 2015 at 6:22 am - Reply Also, one strange spike I forgot to mention. My full name is Miguel Mares, I have a fraternity brother named Michael Maris, I’ve never met the guy I only know his name and that he use to date girls in college but came out as gay when he graduated. I was told I had similar personality traits to him and similarities in our name really set the ball rolling and made me paranoid that I was secretely gay and had no clue. This is strange to me because I don’t know anything about this guy besides those details and they set my paranoia on high, especially the name similarity. I guess my mind takes on a “History repeats itself” sort of fear. The ironic thing is I share the same name as my father yet my mind skips over this and jumps to things my OCD gets worked up about Jon Hershfield June 18, 2015 at 4:46 pm - Reply Sounds like you are personalizing a thing that happened to another person to have something to do with what you imagine could happen to you. Christy June 10, 2015 at 3:31 pm - Reply Hi Jon, I have been dealing with hood for a very long time but had a nice two year break after doing about a year of erp and mindfulness. However, my hocd came back recently after going off meds and getting pregnant with my 2nd baby. I’m managing pretty well and trying to use mindfulness techniques, and find that it comes and goes, but it is still very much “here”. I think about it every day and wake up with it every morning. Some days are better (mostly when my mind has come to the resolution to “just be” and not judge any thoughts/feelings) but other times I struggle with it during the day trying to find the way to “let it go”. For instance, I was doing really well and then saw a blogger Ingrid Nilsen came out yesterday and I just can’t stop thinking about it! I know I need to be tolerant of spikes and keep chugging along, I sometimes just feel so exhausted by it all. I want to feel like my old self again where I’m not constantly worried and wondering when this will go away! I’m not sure I want to go back to doing all the erp again since I have literally done every erp possible (2 years ago), and have found great benefit from mindfulness. But I find that my brain just won’t let me be mindful like it used to! Thanks for any insight! PS – I actually did a Skype session with you a fee years back and it was immensely helpful 🙂 Jon Hershfield June 18, 2015 at 4:33 pm - Reply The thing to remember with triggers like these is that you are predisposed to personalizing events that relate to your obsession. A person you don’t know having an experience you don’t have and doing a thing you haven’t done is giving us very little information to get upset about unless you tell yourself it’s some kind of sign. You may have to accept that the thought “this is a sign” may come and go at various points and your job is simply to make room for it as it passes through. George June 26, 2015 at 6:32 am - Reply >>>>First, thank you so much for the work that you do and the helping hand/support you give to others Hellor Dr. Hershfield (Sorry for the bad English and the long comment) I know I like women since the moment I had memory but I got hooked to pornography at 13 and around 15 -16 started to watch transsexual porn (Trans-female first) and after every session I would felt disgusted, depressed, guilty, frightened, anxious, and angry for everything and everyone (Didn’t realize it was HOCD or OCD I didn’t know such thing could exist). Then at 20 years old (I am 22) I got bored with the porn and decided to watch gay porn (I thought it would be the same thing and I was “secure” that I was straight), after 2 videos I had panic attack and I began to analyze each feeling/emotion than I could remembered and every video since I started watch porn. My HOCD got so bad that I could not sleep sometimes and I started to weep and pray to god for forgiveness (I don’t have anything against homosexual people) Then I developed POCD because I discovered fictional sexual stories and within them there is a lot of stories with underage characters (male and female, I GET DEPRESSED AND ASHAMED EVERY TIME I REMEMBER). I stop watching ANY kind of gay porn for almost 2 years but I never stop questioning why I watched all that stuff (feeling anxious and frightened and re-checking with straight porn) But 4 months ago I began to read these stories again (POCD) because i thought that it would be a good idea to check and discover why I got hooked in the first place. All my life I struggled with OCD (Didn’t know it exist until December of last year, I thought question and re-check everything 20 times it was normal) I had ED in my first time with a woman (due anxiety to find “answers” and shame for being overweight, she was a prostitute) and I am scared of doing it again because of ED. I feel “stuck”, “jammed”, hopeless and I feel that nothing is worth it if I am gay or bisexual because I like girls all my life I had a lot of crushes in kinder, elementary, university (anime in high school because due economic reasons I changed to a male-only school but never felt anything for my classmates apart from be friends. And because my shyness (overweight) only got had 2 friends) I have had so many fantasies about being in shape and lure women, have a girlfriend, a wife, even have friends with benefits (with girls) or “one night stand” with different girls (you know the alpha male fantasies). i don’t want to believe or feel that all that was just a lie. Jon Hershfield June 28, 2015 at 9:58 pm - Reply George, thanks for your comment. Though you describe a terrible fear of being gay which may very well be OCD, it sounds like your overall relationship to sex and pornography has been unhealthy and you would benefit from psychotherapy to address this, besides getting treatment for your OCD. You give examples of compulsive behavior commonly found in OCD (e.g. checking your reaction to pornographic stories to see how you react), but also examples of sexually impulsive behavior and risk-taking (e.g. engaging with prostitutes, porn addiction of increasingly stimulating content…). I would recommend professional help for both of these related and somewhat separate issues. Mike July 15, 2015 at 2:03 pm - Reply I apologize, in advance, for the length of this post. Ever since I can remember I have loved girls. My first crush was when I was in kindergarten for a girl. When I was in grade 6 I started to watch Latin Lover, a Spanish softcore porn show late at night about hot women having sex with each other and with men. I would get so turned on by it and I didn’t masturbate to it because I did not know how to. Anyway when I was 4-8 I was sexually abused by a boy older than me and then I guess I acted this out on other boys my age but I still liked girls. When I got older I got into straight porn and liked it, it turned me on so much. Then I later started watching gay porn and got turned on by it and began to watch it more than straight porn (high school). One day I tried watching straight porn but then I noticed that I was not able to jack off to it anymore. I became afraid and scared that I became gay and was only able to masturbate to gay porn. Later in high school I took myself away from gay porn for two years and only masturbate to straight and lesbian. However I was still afraid of being gay. I avoided watching the men in straight porn, I was afraid of getting turned on by guys. I go on various websites to prove to myself that Im straight and I read hocd blogs every night. Whenever people talked about homosexuality I got scared that they were talking about me and I was afraid that my same sex experimentation was part of my anxiety. Now Hocd has come back in full force. I cannot masturbate to women as much anymore. Straight porn does not turn me on as much as it used to. I monitor my voice to see if I sound gay and I check out men to prove if I’m gay and I check out women too. Although I still like women, I feel like a I’ve lost some attraction to them and I can barely get a boner to thoughts of them anymore. I’ve started to look at gay porn to check my arousal but now I get aroused by it again and I started to masturbate to it again and I feel disgusted about it. I left high school recently and I am so scared about this. I keep checking with men and women. Now I’m scared to have sex with a girl because I’m afraid that I won’t be aroused. About a week ago, I had a gay thought and I couldn’t get it out of my head. I was so anxious and then I decided to look at gay porn again. When I looked at it, I became semi-erect and noticed that I had developed some pre-cum, faster than I normally do when watching straight porn. I became so scared and my stomach began hurting and my head felt uneasy because of this. I masturbated to the gay porn and then I felt guilty afterwards and looked for websites to explain why this happens to me each time I get a gay thought. This cycle of self-doubt and masturation to gay porn occurs at least once every month. Am I gay or do I have HOCD? Jon Hershfield July 16, 2015 at 6:20 pm - Reply >>>>I apologize, in advance, for the length of this post. Ever since I can remember I have loved girls. My first crush was when I was in kindergarten for a girl. When I was in grade 6 I started to watch Latin Lover, a Spanish softcore porn show late at night about hot women having sex with each other and with men. I would get so turned on by it and I didn’t masturbate to it because I did not know how to. Anyway when I was 4-8 I was sexually abused by a boy older than me and then I guess I acted this out on other boys my age but I still liked girls. —Sorry you had to endure such a trauma. The acting out you describe is a common response. >>>When I got older I got into straight porn and liked it, it turned me on so much. Then I later started watching gay porn and got turned on by it and began to watch it more than straight porn (high school). One day I tried watching straight porn but then I noticed that I was not able to jack off to it anymore. I became afraid and scared that I became gay and was only able to masturbate to gay porn. Later in high school I took myself away from gay porn for two years and only masturbate to straight and lesbian. However I was still afraid of being gay. —Sounds like you have a history of hyper-sexuality and easily became addicted to the stimulation pornography (of any kind) provides. >>>>I avoided watching the men in straight porn, I was afraid of getting turned on by guys. I go on various websites to prove to myself that Im straight and I read hocd blogs every night. Whenever people talked about homosexuality I got scared that they were talking about me and I was afraid that my same sex experimentation was part of my anxiety. —You are describing some common compulsive responses to fear of being gay. >>>>Now Hocd has come back in full force. I cannot masturbate to women as much anymore. Straight porn does not turn me on as much as it used to. I monitor my voice to see if I sound gay and I check out men to prove if I’m gay and I check out women too. —Yes, also very common compulsions. >>>Although I still like women, I feel like a I’ve lost some attraction to them and I can barely get a boner to thoughts of them anymore. I’ve started to look at gay porn to check my arousal but now I get aroused by it again and I started to masturbate to it again and I feel disgusted about it. I left high school recently and I am so scared about this. I keep checking with men and women. Now I’m scared to have sex with a girl because I’m afraid that I won’t be aroused. —All of this checking and reassurance seeking has to be ceased before you can get any clarity back. >>>About a week ago, I had a gay thought and I couldn’t get it out of my head. I was so anxious and then I decided to look at gay porn again. When I looked at it, I became semi-erect and noticed that I had developed some pre-cum, faster than I normally do when watching straight porn. I became so scared and my stomach began hurting and my head felt uneasy because of this. I masturbated to the gay porn and then I felt guilty afterwards and looked for websites to explain why this happens to me each time I get a gay thought. This cycle of self-doubt and masturation to gay porn occurs at least once every month. Am I gay or do I have HOCD? —I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment. What seems clear is that you have a fear of being gay that is somehow wrapped up in distorted beliefs about what it means that you can get off to gay fantasies. You’re engaging in a lot of compulsive behavior that only intensifies the power of your obsessive thoughts and the situation is made worse by an addictive or otherwise unhealthy relationship to pornography. This creates a complex issue that needs to be addressed in professional therapy. That being said, I would start with someone who is CBT oriented and well versed in OCD. If they are also trained in sexual impulsivity/addiction-related issues, that would be good, but you made need a different therapist for that. The most reassurance I can give you at this point without contributing to your obsession is that a lot of your behavior appears driven by a belief that what your penis does determines what your identity is and I disagree with that logic. Mike July 17, 2015 at 7:41 am - Reply Hi Jon, thank you so much for responding to my post. I still have some things I want to clarify. I want to add that I consider myself to be fairly liberal and I support gay rights, so I don’t think that I am homophobic or a bigot, is it still possible to have HOCD? Also, is it possible to be straight and to be able to masturbate to gay porn? Certain posters on yahoo answers, for example, do not think so, and when I read those responses I feel insecure. Do I have to quit pornography for my sexuality to sort itself out? When I look at pictures of nude women, it takes me a while to get an erection, but when I check pictures of men, I get an erection quicker and I get extremely anxious If you don’t mind I want to further explain the cycle of doubt I experience that honestly tears me apart. Every month or so, a gay thought will pop up and then I feel anxiety, and I decide to masturbate to gay porn. It’ll usually be triggered by seeing a man on tv or something. When this happens I experience more arousal than normal straight porn, which creates more anxiety for me. When I go to masturbate, my legs feel shaky, my heart beats quickly, and my head hurts. After the deed is done, I don’t feel happy. Then I proceed to do the same thing two more times in the same day to rid myself of the thoughts, I guess. Then a day or so afterwards, I’ll feel more confident that I’m straight and wonder why I ever doubted my sexuality, and then go back to straight porn. There will be days where my arousal to straight porn is very strong and then days where it is weak, and then I feel anxious. The problem is that I am so tired of this monthly cycle of self-doubt. Whenever I watch straight porn I feel like I can’t truly enjoy, or like I’m scared that I won’t be aroused, and I get weaker erections. I still feel drawn to attractive women, in real life, but if I see an attractive man, I’ll have to make sure that I don’t like him. I know you’ve suggested therapy, but I don’t have the means to do so currently. Can you please suggest some ways for me to begin to help myself combat this nightmare? I truly do not want my college years to be ruined by this. Thank you. Jon Hershfield July 18, 2015 at 8:54 pm - Reply >>>>Hi Jon, thank you so much for responding to my post. I still have some things I want to clarify. I want to add that I consider myself to be fairly liberal and I support gay rights, so I don’t think that I am homophobic or a bigot, is it still possible to have HOCD? —Giving me more detail and then asking me the same question again should be considered a compulsion. >>>Also, is it possible to be straight and to be able to masturbate to gay porn? Certain posters on yahoo answers, for example, do not think so, and when I read those responses I feel insecure. —Probably true for some people and not true for others but can’t see how the ability to get off to something would be an indicator of orientation unless your understanding of sexuality is very simplistic. >>>>Do I have to quit pornography for my sexuality to sort itself out? When I look at pictures of nude women, it takes me a while to get an erection, but when I check pictures of men, I get an erection quicker and I get extremely anxious —You figuring out your sexuality and you taking control of your OCD (the drive for certainty) are somewhat separate issues. Yes, you will probably have to address your relationship to pornography before expecting to better understand your sexual identity. >>>If you don’t mind I want to further explain the cycle of doubt I experience that honestly tears me apart. Every month or so, a gay thought will pop up and then I feel anxiety, and I decide to masturbate to gay porn. —So you either have to consider that you have an impulse control issue that drives you to masturbate in response to simply having a thought about something or you have to accept that some part of you simply enjoys the expression of gay sexuality. Or both. >>>>It’ll usually be triggered by seeing a man on tv or something. When this happens I experience more arousal than normal straight porn, which creates more anxiety for me. When I go to masturbate, my legs feel shaky, my heart beats quickly, and my head hurts. After the deed is done, I don’t feel happy. —I’m not an expert in sexuality or sexual addiction, but what you are describing here sounds like a problematic relationship to masturbation that needs to be addressed with professional help. I don’t think it defines your orientation, but it doesn’t sound healthy or happy, which is what sex and masturbation is meant to be. >>>>Then I proceed to do the same thing two more times in the same day to rid myself of the thoughts, I guess. —Then this is a straightforward compulsion and something you need to stop if you expect the obsession to improve. >>>>Then a day or so afterwards, I’ll feel more confident that I’m straight and wonder why I ever doubted my sexuality, and then go back to straight porn. There will be days where my arousal to straight porn is very strong and then days where it is weak, and then I feel anxious. The problem is that I am so tired of this monthly cycle of self-doubt. Whenever I watch straight porn I feel like I can’t truly enjoy, or like I’m scared that I won’t be aroused, and I get weaker erections. I still feel drawn to attractive women, in real life, but if I see an attractive man, I’ll have to make sure that I don’t like him. —No, you don’t “have to make sure” of anything ever. You choose to engage in compulsive behaviors that you think are going to “make you sure” and they ultimately make the situation worse than if you simply accepted uncertainty about your fears. They may not be easy or happy chpices, but they are behavioral choices that are under your control. >>>>I know you’ve suggested therapy, but I don’t have the means to do so currently. Can you please suggest some ways for me to begin to help myself combat this nightmare? I truly do not want my college years to be ruined by this. —You describe being impaired by a mental health issue that is complex and causing you pain. You may need to figure out a way to prioritize professional help. If you have no financial means for any kind of treatment, then you might see what services are provided by your college. There are several books about sexual and porn addiction, but I am not familiar with them. There are also several excellent self-cbt workbooks for OCD, but I think you need to concurrently address the compulsive masturbation. In terms of the OCD alone, and in short, you have to stop trying to prove what you are, accept uncertainty, and simply be what you are in each given moment. Mike July 29, 2015 at 10:48 pm Thanks so much for dealing with my questions, Dr. Hershfield. Over the past few days my anxiety has lessened somewhat and I’ve realized that I have a problem with attaining certainty in various parts of my life. However, I still am not entirely sure how to respond to thoughts that provide me with severe anxiety. Do I try to ignore the thoughts or do I just tell myself that its HOCD causing the thoughts? And my final question is: is there a way to alleviate performance anxiety with straight porn and sex. Although I have not had any urges to watch gay porn, sometimes I feel scared that I wont be able to masturbate to straight porn and then I either am not able to masturbate or I do masturbate, but it consists of me checking my arousal and trying to ignore the man in the porn. Also, will I eventually have to expose myself to gay porn once again? Lastly, I will heed your advice and seek help in my college in the fall. Jon Hershfield August 8, 2015 at 1:33 am >>>>Thanks so much for dealing with my questions, Dr. Hershfield. Over the past few days my anxiety has lessened somewhat and I’ve realized that I have a problem with attaining certainty in various parts of my life. However, I still am not entirely sure how to respond to thoughts that provide me with severe anxiety. Do I try to ignore the thoughts or do I just tell myself that its HOCD causing the thoughts? —Both. You acknowledge that these are the thoughts going through your head and you choose to attend to things of greater value than your thoughts. >>>And my final question is: is there a way to alleviate performance anxiety with straight porn and sex. Although I have not had any urges to watch gay porn, sometimes I feel scared that I wont be able to masturbate to straight porn and then I either am not able to masturbate or I do masturbate, but it consists of me checking my arousal and trying to ignore the man in the porn. Also, will I eventually have to expose myself to gay porn once again? —Gay porn sometimes serves a function as part of a planned ERP approach, but I would never describe it as “necessary.” If you think it is necessary, then it is probably a checking/testing compulsion. As for anxiety associated with the sexual expression of your preferred orientation, the key is mindful acceptance of the present moment and not trying to control what arouses you or doesn’t. Jack September 2, 2015 at 10:26 pm - Reply Hello, Dr. Hershfield. I just wanted to thank you, because your work has really helped me improve with my HOCD. My anxiety has really lessened, but I still obsess a lot in terms of thoughts and groinal responses (I think that’s the worst part, because having an erection towards the gender you think you don’t like still seems, in my mind, like “good evidence” though I simply HATE it when it happens). I guess my worst problem, however, is not knowing for sure and not accepting uncertainty for good. So I’m trying to write an imaginal exposure for that and listen to it until the thoughts go away (it doesn’t cause me a lot of anxiety, just great worry and rumination). Would you mind analyzing the short “confession” I created to see if I’m doing it right? I appreciate your time. Jon Hershfield September 4, 2015 at 1:51 am - Reply Glad the articles have been helpful. First thing, you have to get rid of the notion that your objective is to get the thoughts to stop. That keeps the OCD in place. The goal is to change your relationship to the thoughts such that you see them as normal events, not threats that need to be analyzed or neutralized. Thoughts You have lots of them. As for what gets blood flowing to your junk, you have to stop treating that like it’s some sort of arbiter of truth. Either it means you get turned on by all kinds of things (and so what?) or it means you get unwanted erections for random reasons (and so what?). Accepting uncertainty doesn’t mean accepting the loss of your sexual identity. It just means committing to focusing on the things you actually value in life. You accept the uncertainty that your computer could blow up in your face by committing to your interest in this post. If you want to send me your script, no problem. Cara September 4, 2015 at 3:45 pm - Reply Hello, Thank you for this amazing article. I am a 21 years old female from Poland so sorry for any grammar mistakes. I’ve been diagnosed with HOCD and my therapist’s prescribed me some medications and only mentioned CB Therapy. I don’t know if she’s planning to do that. I want to ask you a few questions. I am a virgin and never had a boyfriend, which seems pretty weird, but I’ve always waited for “the one” and now I doubt that “the one” even exists. But I’ve always dreamed about boys in my puberty and then about man in my adulthood. I’ve had many crushes, even crushed on my almost boss (I didn’t get the job). I’ve never crushed on girls. Even now I don’t, but my HOCD makes me think that every girl is attractive and I feel so anxious, because I don’t find guys attractive anymore. Is it possible that I became lesbian? I don’t want to be with a woman, it’s not my nature, I don’t even mention sex because it seems gross, but my HOCD tells me: you want it. And I don’t know what to think. I’ve never watched lesbian porn and when I cool down I know I’m not gay but still feel anxious and want to come back to my life, like watching tv, reading books (I love reading books), going out with friends without anxiety that I can see some woman and fall in love with her (like what). I want to fall asleep without the thoughts, becuse I used to imagine myself in some man’s arms before sleep and now falling asleep is jus a battle. Sometimes I doubt it’s HOCD and thinking about being lesbian and I accept it and then again feel anxious and tell myself I’ not gay – it’s awful. Is it HOCD? How can I be sure having no sexual encounters in my past? Has every HOCD sufferer that “denial phase” or backdoor spikes? Can I be gay not knowing it my whole life and always crushed on boys? I want my life back, I used to like the way I look, comparing myself to other girls, admiring beauty I could see in everyone. Now I can’t do it without innuendo and anxiety. And I’m scared of sex too now, and men, and everything. And what’s scaring me the most: I could have a boyfriend, there is someone in my life, but I just don’t have no feelings toward him. I’m not attracted to him, I never was. And my HOCD tells me that it’s because I’m lesbian in denial. There were other guys, they were trying to hit on me but I just didn’t feel attracted to them. If you’ll read this, thank you. I really appreciate it. And sorry that it is so long. Wish you all the best Jon Hershfield September 5, 2015 at 2:52 pm - Reply >>>>Hello, Thank you for this amazing article. I am a 21 years old female from Poland so sorry for any grammar mistakes. I’ve been diagnosed with HOCD and my therapist’s prescribed me some medications and only mentioned CB Therapy. I don’t know if she’s planning to do that. I want to ask you a few questions. I am a virgin and never had a boyfriend, which seems pretty weird, —Just because your experience is different from those you compare yourself to, doesn’t mean yours is weird. >>>but I’ve always waited for “the one” and now I doubt that “the one” even exists. —Depends on your definition of THE, which may or may not be realistic. >>>>But I’ve always dreamed about boys in my puberty and then about man in my adulthood. I’ve had many crushes, even crushed on my almost boss (I didn’t get the job). I’ve never crushed on girls. Even now I don’t, but my HOCD makes me think that every girl is attractive and I feel so anxious, because I don’t find guys attractive anymore. Is it possible that I became lesbian? —I don’t know. But I wouldn’t use the awareness of attractiveness in women or ambivalence in attraction toward men as particularly meaningful evidence of anything. >>>I don’t want to be with a woman, it’s not my nature, I don’t even mention sex because it seems gross, but my HOCD tells me: you want it. And I don’t know what to think. I’ve never watched lesbian porn and when I cool down I know I’m not gay but still feel anxious and want to come back to my life, like watching tv, reading books (I love reading books), going out with friends without anxiety that I can see some woman and fall in love with her (like what). I want to fall asleep without the thoughts, becuse I used to imagine myself in some man’s arms before sleep and now falling asleep is jus a battle. —The problem with trying to control your thoughts is that it always leads to spending more time attending to unwanted thoughts than preferred ones. >>>>Sometimes I doubt it’s HOCD and thinking about being lesbian and I accept it and then again feel anxious and tell myself I’ not gay – it’s awful. Is it HOCD? How can I be sure having no sexual encounters in my past? Has every HOCD sufferer that “denial phase” or backdoor spikes? Can I be gay not knowing it my whole life and always crushed on boys? I want my life back, I used to like the way I look, comparing myself to other girls, admiring beauty I could see in everyone. Now I can’t do it without innuendo and anxiety. And I’m scared of sex too now, and men, and everything. And what’s scaring me the most: I could have a boyfriend, there is someone in my life, but I just don’t have no feelings toward him. I’m not attracted to him, I never was. And my HOCD tells me that it’s because I’m lesbian in denial. There were other guys, they were trying to hit on me but I just didn’t feel attracted to them. If you’ll read this, thank you. I really appreciate it. And sorry that it is so long. Wish you all the best —Again, by trying to control your thoughts and feelings, you are only making the more upsetting ones more intrusive. I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but it is clear that you are spending significant amounts of time analyzing, neutralizing, and otherwise responding compulsively to unwanted thoughts of being some sexual orientation other than what you identify with. So rather than trying to be certain you have OCD, I would recommend seeing what happens when you approach the subject as if it is OCD anyway. I don’t know what resources you have for CBT where you are, but perhaps your psychiatrist can make a referral or you could try to employ the use of a workbook for OCD. Cara September 5, 2015 at 6:08 pm - Reply Thank you for your response Dr. Hershfield. It seems like I’m loosing my mind actually. I have few more questions, sorry about that. Do you think some people, who have always desired people of the opposite sex can suddenly turn gay/lesbian? Because for me it’s pretty weird. Like I’ve never even thought about some woman as a lover in my entire life, like never. So isn’t it weird, that I have some anxiety now? I thought that people who come out later in life have always felt different etc. Could you explain it? Have you had some clients who believed they had HOCD but they were gay in denial? What’s the difference between sexual identity crisis and hocd? I’ve read about some guy who doesn’t believe there is such thing as HOCD and everyone who think they have it are really gay in denial, he always liked girls but in his 20ties suddenly realized he was gay all along, though he was in love with some girl. Do you think it’s possible? Secondly: I always became anxious at the end of August / beginning of the September, every year. And I had always intrusive thoughts about me being alone in this world and having no future life with some man and actually having no feelings for them – it’s more like depression, like I have no desire even to live but I can exist in the world etc. It ends when December comes. So my question is: Do you think this two cases may be connected? But I don’t know why this HOCD even came to me. Have yo a clu what can trigger HOCD? Because I’ve watched some random video on youtube about girl coming out and it hit me: What if I’m gay? And at first they were intrusive thoughts like panicking and everything but now I think like I’m really gay but I don’t want to be with some woman it’s depressing me. Can HOCD make insane? Because I feel so. Sorry that its so long again, but my therapist is unavailable. The last question is: How homosexual desires look like? Because I know heterosexual person can have homosexual thoughts but I don’t now what’s the difference. Sorry that there’s so many questions, but I want to really understand hocd and if I can really relate to it. Jon Hershfield September 12, 2015 at 5:25 pm - Reply >>>>Thank you for your response Dr. Hershfield. It seems like I’m loosing my mind actually. —People often tell me this. Not sure what it means. Usually I hear it from people who are lost in thought, so wrapped up in the mind that they start to question reality. That’s not losing the mind then – more like being too close to it. >>>>I have few more questions, sorry about that. Do you think some people, who have always desired people of the opposite sex can suddenly turn gay/lesbian? —No idea. I can’t imagine why not or why yes or why it would be important to know. >>>Because for me it’s pretty weird. Like I’ve never even thought about some woman as a lover in my entire life, like never. So isn’t it weird, that I have some anxiety now? I thought that people who come out later in life have always felt different etc. Could you explain it? —Well, you’re right that suddenly becoming anxious about something more likely points to OCD and always feeling like you belonged with the same sex more likely points to being gay. I’m not sure what you mean by weird other than you seem to have developed an obsession about sexual orientation. >>>Have you had some clients who believed they had HOCD but they were gay in denial? What’s the difference between sexual identity crisis and hocd? I’ve read about some guy who doesn’t believe there is such thing as HOCD and everyone who think they have it are really gay in denial, he always liked girls but in his 20ties suddenly realized he was gay all along, though he was in love with some girl. Do you think it’s possible? —Many things are possible, including that you are currently asking me compulsive reassurance-seeking questions that ultimately worsen the grip OCD has on you. >>>>Secondly: I always became anxious at the end of August / beginning of the September, every year. And I had always intrusive thoughts about me being alone in this world and having no future life with some man and actually having no feelings for them – it’s more like depression, like I have no desire even to live but I can exist in the world etc. It ends when December comes. So my question is: Do you think this two cases may be connected? —I don’t know. Some people appear to have mood disorders that are affected seasonally, but this is not my area of expertise. I would imagine that if a person had OCD and a seasonal mood disorder, then they could expect it to affect the severity of OCD symptoms as well. >>>But I don’t know why this HOCD even came to me. Have yo a clu what can trigger HOCD? Because I’ve watched some random video on youtube about girl coming out and it hit me: What if I’m gay? And at first they were intrusive thoughts like panicking and everything but now I think like I’m really gay but I don’t want to be with some woman it’s depressing me. —If it wasn’t this, it would likely be something else. It’s this because when you had the thought about being gay, you responded to it with compulsive efforts to get certainty. When you had a thought like, “is there really life on Mars?” you probably shrugged and went back about your business. >>>>Can HOCD make insane? Because I feel so. Sorry that its so long again, but my therapist is unavailable. —I don’t know what “insane” is supposed to mean in this context or why having an answer to that question would benefit anyone. >>>The last question is: How homosexual desires look like? Because I know heterosexual person can have homosexual thoughts but I don’t now what’s the difference. —They look awesome is my guess. I don’t know. If you want to overcome this obsession, you need to start by identifying as compulsive these attempts to get certainty about the difference between OCD and whatever it is your OCD is going on about. >>>>Sorry that there’s so many questions, but I want to really understand hocd and if I can really relate to it. —The thing to understand about HOCD is the same thing to understand about any OCD. Compulsions aimed at getting certainty send the message to your brain that obsessions are intruders, to be persisted in, and fought with, and the more you compulse, the stronger the obsession. CBT and mindfulness approaches work because they specifically target the cessation of compulsions and the acceptance of uncertainty. Cara September 5, 2015 at 6:19 pm - Reply And I want to mention that I read this article over and over again and it makes me more relaxed, but then again, when I stop reading or go out I feel anxious again. I don’t know what’s true anymore and what’s not. Can HOCD make someone believe that he really wants and wouldn’t mind a relationship with a person of the same sex? But I want to. I always desired men and now feels like it’s a lie. weird. Jon Hershfield September 12, 2015 at 5:27 pm - Reply It’s not unusual for someone with OCD to find a blog that describes his/her symptoms and then compulsively read and re-read the blog for reassurance. Occupational hazard of writing blogs for OCD I suppose. I would recommend you take a break from reading blogs about your OCD and start doing CBT as soon as you can. Cara September 12, 2015 at 10:34 pm Thank you for all answers, Dr. Hershfield. I appreciate it a lot and it helpedme. I’ll start doing CBT asap and stop the compulsions. Nara October 15, 2015 at 1:34 am - Reply Hey Doctor, how are you? (You can jump for the last 2 paragraph if you want, there’s my doubt.) So, I’ve been dealing with I hope with all my heart is HOCD. I haven’t been diagnosed actually because there’s any OCD specialist in my city (I live in a pretty small city in Brazil) but reading others people stories and symptoms and reading articles about the subject I saw the similarity (I saw myself in these stories/articles) with what I’m dealing with since march this year. Just classic HOCD, I never had same-sex attractions/crushes (I’m a 20 years old girl), never fantasized/wanted same-sex intercourse, never questioned my sexuality, only liked/fantasized/daydreamed about boys, basically I lived a pretty normal Heterosexual life. During these past months, I went through several “cycles?” of HOCD, back and forth, several times. Right now I’m almost convinced that my sexuality changed or that I just discovered that I was gay all my life and didn’t know (even though I never liked a girl like that, like I remember most of my boy crushes if I had a girl crush I’d be able to remember, right?) and doubting that a had/have HOCD and was just trying to force myself to be straight (I never forced any of my attractions for boys, it would just happen without me thinking/questioning about it, I know that… everything was natural and good and REAL and made me so happy). (I could write more but would be a really long post and I don’t think it would make difference, just know Doc that I WAS straight, I know this) The problem right now is that I keep seeing the word gay everywhere, like, I’m scrolling down quickly an article and the there’s the word Day for example and my brain just automatically reads Gay, sometimes the word don’t even look like Gay, could be any word, big or small, my brain keep reading Gay. (I know that’s something kinda normal to do but It happens a lot of times and most of the time I just see the word GAY GAY GAY) or when I’m reading something, for example, “I’m so…” my brain before finishing the phrase already finish with “gay”, but the real phrase is “I’m so understanding”. Like today, I was reading a text and said “Girls, what are you weakness?” My first thought was “Girls” even though they weren’t/aren’t my weakness. Someone once told me that the first thought that pops on our head after a question is the real us, and I am sad now. 🙁 I never saw anyone with HOCD saying they had this and it makes me sadder. 🙁 Could this be because I’m obsessing with my sexuality and the fear of being Lesbian or could my brain trying to send me signals about who I’m? I know I shouldn’t seek certainty because I can’t have it, but I can have hope, right? I really hope this is just OCD and my sexuality didn’t changed and that I can be my old self again, I miss her. I hope you understand what I meant, English is not my first language. Nara October 15, 2015 at 1:41 am - Reply Forget to say that I don’t like these thoughts, it makes me really sad and frustrated, I really don’t want to be gay, I have nothing against them, I actually support them, they have the right to love whoever they want but I don’t want to be. Liking guys always felt right to me. Jon Hershfield October 15, 2015 at 9:35 pm - Reply If you suddenly realized you were gay, I would presume you’d be overjoyed by the new discovery. Sounds like an obsession based on how you are describing it. The concern about seeing “gay” everywhere and making gay associations with words, etc. is best understood as a cognitive distortion called selective abstraction (or tunnel vision). When we have an obsession, we inadvertently invite thinking patterns that keep the obsession in place. This pattern, selective abstraction, basically means that you are pulling in all information that relates to your obsession and giving it more attention than information that is unrelated. It’s like you are wearing obsession-tinted sunglasses. A good non-OCD example is how when we break up with a romantic partner, we might turn on the radio and notice that all of the songs happen to be love songs. Well, there are actually the same number of love songs, but it seems like they are everywhere when you are in that state. Understanding (and reducing) this is don simply by recognizing that you have “gay on the mind” because right now you have an obsession with the subject. When you notice the triggering words popping out, simply notice them. If it bothers you to notice them, you can remember, “oh, right, that’s selective abstraction.” Fanny Sisley October 15, 2015 at 8:39 pm - Reply Hello, so I think I may have HOCD… I didn’t go to a doctor yet because I’m afraid I don’t have it and that I’m lying to myself. Those intrusive and unwanted same-sex thoughts started in the beginner of this year and caused me a lot of distress and anxiety, I cried a lot. I really never questioned my sexually or my attractions to guys (I’m a girl) but is all that I do right now. I always find girls pretty, I thought that was normal, even to a straight girl so I really never worried about it, I used to be very confident on my sexuality, but I can’t find a girl pretty anymore without anxiety and fear of being attracted to them. I’m having trouble doing normal things that I used to do before like watching TV, I fear I’m going to get attracted to one of them, I ever got afraid of watching a cartoon that had girls animations. Or listening to music, I feared that I’d get attracted to their voices, I feared that I was getting attracted to my family members like my mom, sister and even my niece (She’s 10). I used to joke around saying that If Candice Swanepoel ever wanted to be with a girl, she could call me but think about the possibility of wanting to be with a girl for real is scares the shit out me. And I really don’t know why but my brain simply don’t believe in the possibility of liking both (Be bi.. even though I don’t want to be it either), is like or I’m straight or I’m a lesbian, there’s no in between. Like I don’t want to stop desiring men, ever. I didn’t ever had the chance to experience with a guy and I wanted it so bad. I never had any crush on girls (at least that I noticed/remember), never wanted to be with a girl, never was interested or even watched lesbian porn or fantasized about it. I wasn’t disgusted about it, just uninterested. All my attractions to guys were real, at least, I thought they were. I really enjoyed them and loved to daydream about them. I have social anxiety and talking to guys was never easy to me so I never had a boyfriend or even been kissed. And my brain is telling me that I can’t know If I’d like it (having a boyfriend) if I never had one and I don’t know what to think. I used to dream with the day that I’d date a guy and do everything couples do, but I’m really close to giving up of this dream because I really think something changed in me. I don’t know if am not straight anymore or if I just noticed that I’m a lesbian, but I don’t feel the way I used to. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to love a woman like that, but my brain keeps telling to just accept it, that I will like it and will laugh about it. I’m afraid of getting treatment because sometimes it feels I’m going to really find out that I’m a lesbian, and not that I’ll be like I used to be. I’d prefer not knowing it. I don’t know what I’m trying to get with this comment and I feel like I may have left a bunch of important details that about what I’m going through or about my sexuality and past, but reading about it everywhere, I have the same symptoms and did the same thing people do (and I’m aware that I can’t be diagnosed like this) but could this be HOCD? And could be HOCD my first OCD “attack”? I don’t think I ever had it before. Jon Hershfield October 15, 2015 at 9:41 pm - Reply >>>Hello, so I think I may have HOCD… I didn’t go to a doctor yet because I’m afraid I don’t have it and that I’m lying to myself. —Yes, many people struggle with this and it highlights the importance of seeing an ocd specialist if you suspect you might have ocd. >>>Those intrusive and unwanted same-sex thoughts started in the beginner of this year and caused me a lot of distress and anxiety, I cried a lot. I really never questioned my sexually or my attractions to guys (I’m a girl) but is all that I do right now. I always find girls pretty, I thought that was normal, even to a straight girl so I really never worried about it, I used to be very confident on my sexuality, but I can’t find a girl pretty anymore without anxiety and fear of being attracted to them. —Right, it is normal, but now you have an obsession that it might not be normal and you are responding to the thoughts differently. If you went back to responding to the thoughts like they were just things that cross your mind, they would stop preenting as intruders out to harm your identity. >>>I’m having trouble doing normal things that I used to do before like watching TV, I fear I’m going to get attracted to one of them, I ever got afraid of watching a cartoon that had girls animations. Or listening to music, I feared that I’d get attracted to their voices, I feared that I was getting attracted to my family members like my mom, sister and even my niece (She’s 10). I used to joke around saying that If Candice Swanepoel ever wanted to be with a girl, she could call me but think about the possibility of wanting to be with a girl for real is scares the shit out me. And I really don’t know why but my brain simply don’t believe in the possibility of liking both (Be bi.. even though I don’t want to be it either), is like or I’m straight or I’m a lesbian, there’s no in between. Like I don’t want to stop desiring men, ever. I didn’t ever had the chance to experience with a guy and I wanted it so bad. —You describe a lot of common triggers and concerns in HOCD. >>>I never had any crush on girls (at least that I noticed/remember), never wanted to be with a girl, never was interested or even watched lesbian porn or fantasized about it. I wasn’t disgusted about it, just uninterested. All my attractions to guys were real, at least, I thought they were. I really enjoyed them and loved to daydream about them. I have social anxiety and talking to guys was never easy to me so I never had a boyfriend or even been kissed. And my brain is telling me that I can’t know If I’d like it (having a boyfriend) if I never had one and I don’t know what to think. I used to dream with the day that I’d date a guy and do everything couples do, but I’m really close to giving up of this dream because I really think something changed in me. I don’t know if am not straight anymore or if I just noticed that I’m a lesbian, but I don’t feel the way I used to. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to love a woman like that, but my brain keeps telling to just accept it, that I will like it and will laugh about it. I’m afraid of getting treatment because sometimes it feels I’m going to really find out that I’m a lesbian, and not that I’ll be like I used to be. I’d prefer not knowing it. —Social anxiety, in my experience, seems to be pretty common alongside HOCD and the OCD sort of uses your fear of negative evaluation as one of its weapons to keep you obsessed. >>>I don’t know what I’m trying to get with this comment and I feel like I may have left a bunch of important details that about what I’m going through or about my sexuality and past, but reading about it everywhere, I have the same symptoms and did the same thing people do (and I’m aware that I can’t be diagnosed like this) but could this be HOCD? And could be HOCD my first OCD “attack”? I don’t think I ever had it before. —Not unusual for this subject to b the first thing a person can get really stuck on if they have ocd. My recommendation is to get an assessment from an ocd specialist in your area. Hannah October 23, 2015 at 5:15 pm - Reply Hello Doctor, I have a doubt… Are false memories normal to people with OCD? Maybe not false but distorted memories? I mean I’m a girl and used to consider myself straight until the HOCD got stuck on me. And sometimes my brain brings up some old memories and I have a hard time letting them go because I literally can’t tell if they are real or not. Like today, I remembered a school party that I went years ago, and I was with a boy there and my mind told me that I was uncomfortable with him because I’m a lesbian and the thing is I can’t remember if I did or didn’t get uncomfortable… I know that he didn’t let go of me for the whole party and this could have made uncomfortable because I have social anxiety, but my mind insists that I was and it’s because I’m a lesbian. And most of the memories that my brain bring up that involves girls are normally the girls I used to want to be friends with because they were popular, but my mind says that I liked them, but I didn’t know. Like at this moment, I’m afraid of getting crushes on girls, but my brain says it already happened and I didn’t realize. Is it normal? Jon Hershfield November 1, 2015 at 2:57 pm - Reply Inaccurate or distorted memories are normal events for people with or without ocd. People with ocd are more likely to view them as problematic, review them compulsively, and further confuse themselves. Memories are thoughts. Instead of trying to prove what they mean, you want to simply observe them as they come and go and not take the bait your ocd sets out. Nyancat November 5, 2015 at 3:24 am - Reply I’m in my early teens and recently, just a month ago I have been suffering HOCD. One day I was thinking about one of my friends and her boyfriend, and what it was like to be dating–and then I snowballed from that, thinking “Well what if my friend was dating a girl?” And my thoughts kept elaborating until I myself was worried that I was lesbian. I told my parents about this, and they simply said that I was asking for trouble and that I was absolutely not homosexual–as I have liked only boys my entire life. That gave me relief for another five more weeks, until now. Now, whenever I see an attractive girl/woman, I wonder “What if I actually like her? What if?” To prevent these thoughts from recurring, I would just think of a boy crush over and over again. If there was an image of an attractive woman/girl online, then I would avoid looking at it. And whenever I saw an attractive female in person, I would tell myself “DO NOT start feeling butterflies in your stomach.” I have even spent great amounts of time praying to God and asking for help. Sometimes, I would move on to thinking that I was bisexual, which is just as “unacceptable” as being lesbian. To me, homo/bisexuality is disgusting; for instance, I would avoid all news that had LGBT content. Yet, my mind tells me that I might be one of those people. This really haunts me. My parents have told me that one’s sexuality is innate, and is rarely ever learnt. But I have also heard that some people don’t discover their true sexuality until adulthood. That really bothers me, as I feel that I will have to wait a couple more years until I finally know. I’m the person who needs to find the “absolute truth” for reassurance. But one thing does distinguish me from lesbians/bisexuals in denial. I don’t “deny” myself from being homo/bisexual because of the fear of being rejected by the society–I just think that it’s disgusting, wrong, and “not right.” I’m still extremely confused, levitating in a state of helplessness. It’s already been interfering with my schoolwork, and I do not want it to continue. I have been suffering from harm OCD just last week, and POOF! it’s gone now. BTW when I was 10, for 3 months I had extremely intrusive thoughts about my “making wrong decisions in the future.” I would think, “What if I was a murderer when I grew up? What if I lost self-control and started doing drugs?” I was (and still am) very sensitive to “bad news.” Whenever someone mentioned something about a serial killer, for example, I would feel extremely uncomfortable and start worrying whether or not I would be one. Even the mention of the word “drugs” made/makes me feel queasy. After a while, those intrusive thoughts just faded away. For a few more years I was completely fine…..until now. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 5:47 pm - Reply >>>>I’m in my early teens and recently, just a month ago I have been suffering HOCD. One day I was thinking about one of my friends and her boyfriend, and what it was like to be dating–and then I snowballed from that, thinking “Well what if my friend was dating a girl?” And my thoughts kept elaborating until I myself was worried that I was lesbian. I told my parents about this, and they simply said that I was asking for trouble and that I was absolutely not homosexual–as I have liked only boys my entire life. That gave me relief for another five more weeks, until now. Now, whenever I see an attractive girl/woman, I wonder “What if I actually like her? What if?” To prevent these thoughts from recurring, I would just think of a boy crush over and over again. —This is a good example of a compulsion called thought neutralization. A non-compulsive response to these “what if” questions would be to shrug and maybe something like “dunno, food for thought” and let it remain unanswered. The strategy you are employing only sends the message to your brain that you must be at some sort of heightened risk of losing your sexual identity and have to engage in some kind of thought game to protect yourself. >>>If there was an image of an attractive woman/girl online, then I would avoid looking at it. And whenever I saw an attractive female in person, I would tell myself “DO NOT start feeling butterflies in your stomach.” —A more useful strategy would be the exact opposite of this behavior. Let yourself look at things that are in front of you and stop telling yourself that you must feel anything in particular. >>>I have even spent great amounts of time praying to God and asking for help. Sometimes, I would move on to thinking that I was bisexual, which is just as “unacceptable” as being lesbian. To me, homo/bisexuality is disgusting; for instance, I would avoid all news that had LGBT content. Yet, my mind tells me that I might be one of those people. This really haunts me. —You are absolutely entitled to these beliefs. However, since people of different orientations exist, you are likely to hear about or read about them from time to time. Going out of your way to avoid being in the presence of things that exist only makes you obsessed with those very things you are trying to avoid thinking about. >>>My parents have told me that one’s sexuality is innate, and is rarely ever learnt. But I have also heard that some people don’t discover their true sexuality until adulthood. That really bothers me, as I feel that I will have to wait a couple more years until I finally know. I’m the person who needs to find the “absolute truth” for reassurance. —More to the point, you are a person who thinks this way about truth because you may have OCD. >>>But one thing does distinguish me from lesbians/bisexuals in denial. I don’t “deny” myself from being homo/bisexual because of the fear of being rejected by the society–I just think that it’s disgusting, wrong, and “not right.” I’m still extremely confused, levitating in a state of helplessness. It’s already been interfering with my schoolwork, and I do not want it to continue. I have been suffering from harm OCD just last week, and POOF! it’s gone now. BTW when I was 10, for 3 months I had extremely intrusive thoughts about my “making wrong decisions in the future.” I would think, “What if I was a murderer when I grew up? What if I lost self-control and started doing drugs?” I was (and still am) very sensitive to “bad news.” Whenever someone mentioned something about a serial killer, for example, I would feel extremely uncomfortable and start worrying whether or not I would be one. Even the mention of the word “drugs” made/makes me feel queasy. After a while, those intrusive thoughts just faded away. For a few more years I was completely fine…..until now. —You describe a history of multiple OCD symptoms. The next question is what you are going to do about this disorder in terms of getting some treatment so you don’t just keep repeating these cycles. Nyancat November 5, 2015 at 3:28 am - Reply Please help I am in great distress. I would really appreciate your feedback. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 5:48 pm - Reply Sorry for the delayed response. For context, in addition to my practice and other responsibilities, I also moderate or contribute to multiple online support groups and things back up. Commenting on blog comments often takes me a few weeks to get caught up. Sarah November 6, 2015 at 8:44 am - Reply Hi Jon, I am a 24 year old girl and I am certain I have HOCD because I can’t stop obsessing over whether I am a lesbian or not. I just sit in my room researching the internet about it all day and the thoughts don’t leave my head. When I go in public I am constantly trying to see if I am attracted to any girls but I am not. I wake up having panic attacks over this and the thoughts don’t leave my head until I go to bed. I haven’t told anyone other than my mum but I don’t think people really understand. The ocd comes and goes and usually lasts for a few weeks and I can’t even focus on anything then it disappears and I am back to normal for a few months. I remember having crushes on guys when I was as young as 6 years old and I currently have a boyfriend who I love. I have never been attracted to a girl and cannot imagine having sex with or dating one. But the fact that lesbian porn turns me on (along with other types) keeps bothering me and my head keeps telling me I must be lesbian/bisexual because of this. I have seen people in YouTube comments and even in recent news articles say that if a girl is turned on by lesbian porn then she is definitely at least bisexual and this is scarying me (It is making me feel really really anxious that people think this). I remember when I was 11 and first found out about sex I would look up porn and there were a lot girls in it and I’d have weird thoughts, but I can’t remember if they turned me on then but my mind is trying to tell me it did. Anyways, is it true that if I get turned on by lesbian porn I am at least bisexual? This scares me because I don’t feel like I am but I read people’s comments on the internet saying a girl that does this must be bisexual. Others say they can still be straight and that it’s normal. What do you think about this it is really causing me to stress out. I don’t know what to do anymore, I can’t stop crying. Thank you for reading this. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 8:39 pm - Reply You describe yourself struggling significantly with OCD and engaging in a lot of compulsive behavior. OCD is a treatable disorder and I strongly recommend you seek treatment for it from a specialist if you can access one or, at the very least, look into a self-CBT workbook for it. To your question about pornography and orientation, it has been demonstrated by multiple research studies that women respond to stimuli outside their identified orientation and that groinal arousal in women does not correlate well to defined orientation. It is also somewhat common knowledge I would argue that the average heterosexual woman is stimulated to varying degrees by lesbian pornography and that this is not relevant to orientation. Whether it has something to do with biology, the psychological nature of taboo, or some combination of factors, I have no idea. Your OCD wants you to get certainty that your experience of lesbian pornography is mutually exclusive from being bi or homosexual. This reassurance you cannot have. But what I can say is that there is no scientific evidence backing what you are afraid people think or what you see on youtube comments. In the end, if you want to stop being obsessed with orientation, you have to stop responding to these questions like they need answers in order for you to be you. Nyancat November 8, 2015 at 12:45 am - Reply If I found out that I was not heterosexual, I would be devastated. Please tell me whether or not I have another mental disorder based on what I wrote above– so that I can tell my parents about it. I think it’s unusual for me to be so young to be worrying about these things. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 8:40 pm - Reply I cannot diagnose you from a blog comment. I believe you said you were a young teen, which is a common age for people with ocd to see a spike in symptoms, particularly sexual obsessions. Nyancat November 8, 2015 at 6:44 am - Reply And now I just heard that one’s sexuality can change as time progresses. Is that true? I do all this checking to make sure; some sources say it’s true, while others say that one cannot suddenly turn into something else no more than he can sprout wings. I’ve read all these stories about people who consistently fall in love with the opposite sex for the first few decades of his/her life–and then shift towards homosexuality in their fifties. But I really, really don’t want my sexuality to change–I just want to be heterosexual for the rest of my life–like I knew ever since I had crushes. Now, I wish that I had never even elicited these horrible thoughts, and I want to return to what I was before. I couldn’t accept myself being homo/bisexual or anything else other than heterosexual, and I wish that heterosexuality was the only type of sexual orientation in the world. I also take a whole bunch of sexuality quizzes, all of them saying that I am heterosexual. But then I doubt myself, thinking that I might be bisexual/lesbian. And then I tell myself that it’s just HOCD that’s lying to me. I’m always going back and forth between the two. Now I’m really confused. Should I see an OCD specialist? Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 8:43 pm - Reply >>>>And now I just heard that one’s sexuality can change as time progresses. Is that true? —How would I know? >>>>I do all this checking to make sure; —This is as useful as repeatedly checking a stove to build confidence that you won;t burn you house down. It’s a compulsion and it always makes your obsession worse in the end. >>>>some sources say it’s true, while others say that one cannot suddenly turn into something else no more than he can sprout wings. I’ve read all these stories about people who consistently fall in love with the opposite sex for the first few decades of his/her life–and then shift towards homosexuality in their fifties. But I really, really don’t want my sexuality to change–I just want to be heterosexual for the rest of my life–like I knew ever since I had crushes. Now, I wish that I had never even elicited these horrible thoughts, and I want to return to what I was before. I couldn’t accept myself being homo/bisexual or anything else other than heterosexual, and I wish that heterosexuality was the only type of sexual orientation in the world. I also take a whole bunch of sexuality quizzes, all of them saying that I am heterosexual. —Taking these quizzes is another compulsion you would need to stop if you want to stop obsessing about your orientation. >>>>But then I doubt myself, thinking that I might be bisexual/lesbian. And then I tell myself that it’s just HOCD that’s lying to me. I’m always going back and forth between the two. Now I’m really confused. Should I see an OCD specialist? —Yes, that would seem the most sensible approach to what you are describing. Ingrid November 12, 2015 at 3:37 am - Reply Do people know whether or not they are in denial? I still can’t tell the difference between that and HOCD. I know I’m not in denial, but a little voice from the back of my head whispers, “Yes, you are in denial. Be true to yourself.” And then I retort, “NO YOU AREN’T. Of course not. You were heterosexual before and you cannot be homo/bi now. SHUT UP.” I would go back and forth between these thoughts, and it is agitating me. At times, it distracts me so much that I take double the amount of time doing my schoolwork. Before, whenever I saw an attractive woman/girl, I only admired her and wished to possess her beauty. But now, instead of feeling admiration, I would worry that I had a crush on her. I would check to see if my heart rate sped up, or if I was blushing (those were my reactions to a male crush) And although that never really happened, I would still think it did and be forced into thinking that my heart rate went up. This matter is tormenting me. Literally, it’s one of the most excruciating mental pains I’ve ever experienced in my life. Last week, I was taking a piano lesson when I began to cry in the middle of playing a piece–so we had to end that day’s class. I told my parents about my worries, and they said that I was absolutely not homo/bi and I was heterosexual. I have talked to my pediatrician (I’m 13), but she hasn’t helped much either. What can I do to get rid of these thoughts? I was fine last week…. I have been taking a number of sexuality questionnaires, to find that I get “heterosexual” as my result for all of them. But I still doubt myself, thinking “Well, what if you are actually in denial and you are lying? What if?” I don’t even feel like I’m in denial, though. I just feel so confused. I’m levitating in a state of helplessness. I don’t even know what in the world these terrible thoughts are. I just want them to go away. I want to return to what I was before. Am I in denial? I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hope I’m not. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 9:44 pm - Reply >>>Do people know whether or not they are in denial? —I don’t know, but I would presume they don’t. >>>>I still can’t tell the difference between that and HOCD. —OCD is am mental health condition characterized by unwanted intrusive thoughts and ritualized compulsive responses that impair functioning. Denial is when you’re one way and living another way when you’re really that one way, but you don’t know it or won’t admit it. The two concepts don’t have much to do with one another except that people with an obsessive fear of being in denial often want to know if they are in denial or not. >>>>I know I’m not in denial, but a little voice from the back of my head whispers, “Yes, you are in denial. Be true to yourself.” And then I retort, “NO YOU AREN’T. Of course not. You were heterosexual before and you cannot be homo/bi now. SHUT UP.” I would go back and forth between these thoughts, and it is agitating me. At times, it distracts me so much that I take double the amount of time doing my schoolwork. —It would be a better strategy to resist the urge to argue with little voices in your head since you already established that they say a lot of nonsense and don’t merit a lot of attention. >>>Before, whenever I saw an attractive woman/girl, I only admired her and wished to possess her beauty. But now, instead of feeling admiration, I would worry that I had a crush on her. I would check to see if my heart rate sped up, or if I was blushing (those were my reactions to a male crush) And although that never really happened, I would still think it did and be forced into thinking that my heart rate went up. This matter is tormenting me. Literally, it’s one of the most excruciating mental pains I’ve ever experienced in my life. Last week, I was taking a piano lesson when I began to cry in the middle of playing a piece–so we had to end that day’s class. I told my parents about my worries, and they said that I was absolutely not homo/bi and I was heterosexual. I have talked to my pediatrician (I’m 13), but she hasn’t helped much either. What can I do to get rid of these thoughts? I was fine last week…. —Sorry you are struggling so. Pretty brave of you to reach out for information at 13. My recommendation is that you talk to your parents about how much anxiety you are experiencing and how much time you are spending doing battle with that anxiety. Them reassuring you about being straight won;t make this go away, more likely will just make you more obsessive. The best bet would be to start working with an ocd specialist who does a form of therapy for OCD called CBT. >>>I have been taking a number of sexuality questionnaires, to find that I get “heterosexual” as my result for all of them. —May be reassuring at first, but it’s a compulsion and it makes you more obsessive. Think of it this way. Your thoughts about being denial are like dirt to you and your questionnaires are like soap. But if you know anything about OCD, you know that people who wash more when they’re afraid of dirt don’t suddenly feel clean and then drop it. They wash and wash and wash until they get treatment. >>>>But I still doubt myself, thinking “Well, what if you are actually in denial and you are lying? What if?” I don’t even feel like I’m in denial, though. I just feel so confused. I’m levitating in a state of helplessness. I don’t even know what in the world these terrible thoughts are. I just want them to go away. I want to return to what I was before. Am I in denial? I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hope I’m not. —I can’t diagnose you from here, but it sounds like an obsession to me and that means you can get help for it. Ask your parents to get you help, not for sexual orientation confusion, but for an OCD assessment with a specialist. Ingrid November 18, 2015 at 6:12 am - Reply Thanks, Mr. Hershfield, for your evaluation of my condition. I have been fine for a week now, and my parents will let me see a therapist to guide me through my ERP journey. I really apologize for the many comments I posted. For whatever reason, my first few comments “disappeared”–so I thought there was an internet connection error and began posting more comments (by the way, I am the “Nyancat” from above) (And I didn’t mean to discriminate LGB’s from the above comments….I was so distressed that words came pouring out of my mouth) Jon Hershfield November 19, 2015 at 12:12 am - Reply Glad to hear you will be getting some help. Best of luck in your treatment! Andrew November 22, 2015 at 5:05 am - Reply Hi I don’t know if I have hocd or not, I done the free test and checked off around 23-24 items , still I’m not sure though I can’t live like this anymore I feel tormented and feel I have to be alone forever. I keep feeling stressed out all day everyday and can’t get peace at anytime I just want to be happy, I’ve suffered this since a young age I am now 26 , the thing that really confuses me is I get thoughts that I start thinking I enjoy these fantasies so I stress more and repeat the ritual in my head over and over to see if I get aroused by it in which I always end up feeling worse, I only fancy women and don’t fancy men but seem fixated on penises and that I must enjoy the thoughts but on the other hand I love women and don’t want to spend my life with a man and would never ever want to hold hands or kiss one, I’m sorry about going on about this but I just can’t stop thinking about it, I worry about everything and I mean everything from health to money to being like this forever but it’s the hocd if it is that that gets me down the most, I want to be with a woman but I feel with these thoughts that I am going to just have to be gay to somehow have a life that I don’t want, also have fantasies of wearing girls lingerie and get aroused by it therefore leading to me thinking I’m homosexual I just want peace and to b happy I really feel depressed as I feel I have to give in, so sorry for the long comment sorry Jon Hershfield November 30, 2015 at 1:46 am - Reply >>>>Hi I don’t know if I have hocd or not, I done the free test and checked off around 23-24 items —What free test? To my knowledge there is no official test for specific forms of OCD, though maybe someone made one up on a website somewhere. , still I’m not sure though I can’t live like this anymore I feel tormented and feel I have to be alone forever. I keep feeling stressed out all day everyday and can’t get peace at anytime I just want to be happy, I’ve suffered this since a young age I am now 26 , the thing that really confuses me is I get thoughts that I start thinking I enjoy these fantasies so I stress more and repeat the ritual in my head over and over to see if I get aroused by it in which I always end up feeling worse —So there are two problems here. One is the distorted belief that you need to control your enjoyment or disgust with fantasies (which are, by definition fictional and imaginary so not subject to the same assessment as actions) and the other is your decision to respond to your obsessions with compulsions. Testing is a particularly nasty compulsion that’s hard to quit, but, as you pointed out, the results speak for themselves. >>>, I only fancy women and don’t fancy men but seem fixated on penises and that I must enjoy the thoughts but on the other hand I love women and don’t want to spend my life with a man and would never ever want to hold hands or kiss one, I’m sorry about going on about this but I just can’t stop thinking about it, I worry about everything and I mean everything from health to money to being like this forever but it’s the hocd if it is that that gets me down the most, I want to be with a woman but I feel with these thoughts that I am going to just have to be gay to somehow have a life that I don’t want —Sounds like you’re struggling with a lot of anxiety and are stuck in an O-C loop. I suggest you get treatment for your OCD and stop expecting compulsions to pay off one day. You say you are afraid you’ll have to live as a gay man against your will because you can’t stop thinking about it, but it’s unclear why that would result you stopping thinking about. I think treating your POVD with CBT is a better strategy. , also have fantasies of wearing girls lingerie and get aroused by it therefore leading to me thinking I’m homosexual —people have all kinds of fantasies. And actually, men who do have genuine fantasies of wearing women’s clothing are typically heterosexual. >>>I just want peace and to b happy I really feel depressed as I feel I have to give in, so sorry for the long comment sorry —It’s not clear what you mean by “give in.” You seem to be giving in to compulsions, but I think you mean “give in” to homosexual desires, which you don;t appear to actually have outside of your testing compulsions. Ingrid November 22, 2015 at 6:03 am - Reply I apologize for posting so many comments, but one last question: I remember telling you I still sometimes worry if I would lose self-control one day and start doing drugs. Is this considered another subgroup of OCD? Or is it not even OCD, since it probably doesn’t pass a certain threshold? Thank you for your extra time…. Jon Hershfield November 30, 2015 at 1:46 am - Reply Sounds like an obsession with losing control to me. Ita December 14, 2015 at 3:22 am - Reply Hello dr My name is Ita. I’m a 23yr old male that has been suffering from hocd since 10th grade. I have been to many Drs and none have had the lasting effect that I would expect once you learn to live with hocd. Although I’m defiantly better then I was before I still find myself doubting and over analyzing my sexuality. The biggest thing that always gets me are the groinal responses and amount of debilitating anxiety that is automatically triggered when I look at certain men in the eyes. I find it hard to hold eye contact for fear that I will be aroused or them thinking that I am attracted to them and being weirded out. I haven’t had sex since my last girlfriend (about a year and a half) and find it very difficult to get sexual with women. For example/ yesterday I was at a bar and some pretty woman started talking with me. Although I wanted to get sexual with her I couldn’t feel anything. I felt like I wasn’t going to get anywhere with her because I wasn’t feeling the hornyness feelings that would create the sexual chemistry. From reading your posts I assume it’s because I’m putting too much pressure on the situation and the premiered outcome. It very hard to not attach feeling of feeling good depending on whether or not I get the girl. On top of that when I’m talking to her friend that’s a dude I feel such strong sensations that it’s hard not to believe the thoughts in my head that say that the reason I’m not getting horny to the girl is because my body is programmed to only get aroused by men and the sooner I accept it the better I’ll be. It gets really depressing because although I want to believe and move past this hocd it’s very confusing and I’m letting the years of my life swing by. Any advice on how to overcome and be able to feel aroused by women would be really great. Thanks, Ita Jon Hershfield December 15, 2015 at 9:32 pm - Reply >>>>My name is Ita. I’m a 23yr old male that has been suffering from hocd since 10th grade. I have been to many Drs and none have had the lasting effect that I would expect once you learn to live with hocd. Although I’m defiantly better then I was before I still find myself doubting and over analyzing my sexuality. The biggest thing that always gets me are the groinal responses and amount of debilitating anxiety that is automatically triggered when I look at certain men in the eyes. I find it hard to hold eye contact for fear that I will be aroused or them thinking that I am attracted to them and being weirded out. —The best way to deal with this is to make more eye contact with men and allow your groin to do whatever it wants without reading into it. Your avoidance only serves to make your over-attention to that area more severe. >>>>I haven’t had sex since my last girlfriend (about a year and a half) and find it very difficult to get sexual with women. For example/ yesterday I was at a bar and some pretty woman started talking with me. Although I wanted to get sexual with her I couldn’t feel anything. I felt like I wasn’t going to get anywhere with her because I wasn’t feeling the hornyness feelings that would create the sexual chemistry. —If you wait for your feelings to guide your behavior, you will wait for a lot of things for a very ling time. Feelings are not as reliable as people think and can easily be manipulated. Values are better guides. If you see hitting on this girl as being in line with your values, then that should be the motivator whether the feelings are present or absent. “Sexual chemistry” is a term someone made up one day to describe what they imagine other people are experiencing when they aren;t sitting around analyzing their feelings. >>>From reading your posts I assume it’s because I’m putting too much pressure on the situation and the premiered outcome. It very hard to not attach feeling of feeling good depending on whether or not I get the girl. —Yes, I understand it is difficult, especially when it is reinforced by avoidance. >>>>On top of that when I’m talking to her friend that’s a dude I feel such strong sensations that it’s hard not to believe the thoughts in my head that say that the reason I’m not getting horny to the girl is because my body is programmed to only get aroused by men and the sooner I accept it the better I’ll be. —Many people with HOCD who have spent a lot of time focusing on their groin as some sort of measuring tool for gayness find that the same sex is activating (because they are trying not to feel anything) and the other sex is deactivating or numbing (because you are trying to feel something). The key is to be present with whatever you are sensing at any given moment and allow it to be as it is while you make a guess as to what (or who?) you want to spend your time doing. >>>It gets really depressing because although I want to believe and move past this hocd it’s very confusing and I’m letting the years of my life swing by. Any advice on how to overcome and be able to feel aroused by women would be really great. —You mentioned seeing some doctors, but it wasn’t clear if you were engaging in CBT, ERP, or any of the treatments that work for OCD. My recommendation would be to stop checking your groin, stop checking and waiting for the exact right feelings, and do exposure to your fears. The best way to do this would be in CBT with an ocd specialist. or if you cannot access one, you might use a self-CBT workbook for ocd. Sther January 10, 2016 at 9:50 pm - Reply Doctor, OCD can make me doubt if I’m sexual too, right? I know this post is not about this but I’m dealing with HOCD too and I’m noticing the same patterns of thinking, it’s not the first time that I question it (did before when I was 15 I guess and was depressed, I wasn’t getting attracted to guys so I thought I could be and now with HOCD and depression again) and it never last as long as HOCD do (I’m very grateful)… Spent most of my day today researching about asexuality and ruminating about my past to see if there any signs. I don’t think I’m, even though I never had sex, I enjoy the idea of it and want to. Anyway, I’m not going to get further with this, just wanted to know if it’s possible? and should be treated the same way as HOCD? Lost interest in sex lately again so could be because of it? Thank you. Jon Hershfield January 11, 2016 at 7:18 pm - Reply Yes, absolutely. It’s important to remember that HOCD is a made-up term that sufferers use as short hand to describe OCD where the primary theme has to do with sexual orientation (some may use SO-OCD for sexual orientation). But sexual obsessions, which are common in ocd, can apply to any aspect of sexuality or sexual identity. I have worked with clients who fear being asexual, transgender, and several other things. The fear is losing one’s preferred or assumed identity. The content of how this could happen is not important. The treatment is the same. Jessi January 12, 2016 at 3:32 pm - Reply Hello, First of all I really liked your article. It was helpful and made me realize some things. So I had problems with anxiety and panic attacks since my childhood. Last year I finally had the courage to go to a therapist and I was diagnosed with a panic disorder. The thing what scared me was my high heart rate and I thought that there is something physical wrong with me. Anyway a lot of people were judging me for being not girly enough and my dad annyoed me every week with “Do you have a boyfriend? Oh no you will never get one because you are a lesbian” and he did this since I was 14. And I am 19 now. My question can it be that my selfimage was distroyed by the reactions people have giving me all my life? 2 years ago out of nowhere the thought of “what of I am really gay?” popped into my head and I had anxiety. I was checking for emotional responses when I was looking at girls but nothing happened so I shrugged it off. But then there were 3 other times where I got anxiety/nervousness and I thought that means I am attracted to these girls. My question here was this also HOCD back then? I mean I had no intrusive thoughts back then I was just scared of being it and this thought was still back in my head. But now that I saw that you said that anxiety can trick us in feeling something and I just misinterpretended it because the anxiety was/is still there. Last year in August I met my boyfriend online and I wanted to visit him as soon as I was feeling better with my anxiety of getting a heart attack. I was looking in the mirror and I was thinking “He will not like you. Look at your body/face” (We are skyping every day so he already saw me and I saw him) Then I was pretty down and checked Facebook for any messages and I saw a photo of a girl and then the anxiety and nervousness came back and then it happened. “Oh my god. Does that mean I am gay?” and that’s when all the intrusive thoughts came into my head. I was depressed, I can’t sleep and It’s the First thing I think of when waking up and going to bed. The thought and the anxiety are always there. I went to my therapist and he said he is pretty sure that I have OCD. The funny thing is that my anxiety for my heart completly disappeared since HOCD took the place. And since that day my brain tells me stuff like “You are not attracted/ You don’t love your boyfriend because you are gay” “Come on I know you like girls” and I was fighting it. I did a lot of compulsions. Looking through the Internet to look for an answer “Am I gay?” Of course there was no answer. But then I tried to look at a lot of HOCD Forums to see what other people have gone through. And I could relate to a lot of people with their symptoms. Like not watching TV because there a women. Not going outside. Etc. And then I was like “Okay I want to get better. I want this to end.” I looked at many sides to see what you can do and then I found the ERP and my first thought was “No way what If I find out I like all this stuff and that means I am gay and I had to leave my boyfriend who I don’t want to lose.” I was scared but I tried to make small steps for now. I googled sexy women and forced myself to stay in the situation even if I wanted to shut down my laptop and start to panic. But I did it my anxiety decreased (Oh I am also taking meds) and I just felt nothing. And I was proud of myself. I am trying to do stuff I normally prevent because I didn’t want to think “Oh you think she looks pretty that means you are gay”. I think I improved a little bit. What is still a hard thing is the thoughts around my boyfriend “You don’t love him. You don’t want to see him. Leave him and go get a girl.” That is something which gets me every time and I fight with my head by giving him evidence that this is just ocd and that I do love him. It’s really hard. Sometimes I have short times where I know I am not gay and I am thinking like “why was I freaking out so much” but yeah this is ocd and it always came back with the anxiety and the doubt. My parents have no idea about this whole HOCD thing and they think I am in denial which made everything worse and I was depressed again, couldn’t eat etc. Because they said I never had sex so I can’t tell what my sexual orientation is which I think is completely nonsense. If you ask a homosexual virgin if he is really gay because he can’t know if he never had sex he still would say yes because he is attracted to the same sex. And I am attracted to men. So I was trying to explain them my Situation but they just don’t understand. And one last question also which is really hard is that I am thinking about past events and literally everything is for OCD a thing where he can tell me “See! That means you are gay” that’s really exhausting and I try not to think about past events. Where seriously nothing happened but for ocd it looks like a big deal. Is it good to try not to think about past events or should I think about it and let me ocd talk? Thank you so much for the help and I am sorry for any spelling/grammar mistakes I am from Germany (: Jon Hershfield January 20, 2016 at 11:21 pm - Reply >>>>First of all I really liked your article. It was helpful and made me realize some things. —Great! >>>>So I had problems with anxiety and panic attacks since my childhood. Last year I finally had the courage to go to a therapist and I was diagnosed with a panic disorder. The thing what scared me was my high heart rate and I thought that there is something physical wrong with me. —Yes, panic disorder is often experienced this way. >>>>Anyway a lot of people were judging me for being not girly enough and my dad annyoed me every week with “Do you have a boyfriend? Oh no you will never get one because you are a lesbian” and he did this since I was 14. And I am 19 now. My question can it be that my selfimage was distroyed by the reactions people have giving me all my life? —Well, it didn’t help, but the concept of “self image” being :destroyed” doesn’t mean all that much. You have thoughts and some of those thoughts are assessments of your value in the world. Sometimes people get used to devaluing themselves, perhaps because other people encourage this. But it’s never really destroyed. It gets affected negatively, but can improve with proper treatment. >>>>2 years ago out of nowhere the thought of “what of I am really gay?” popped into my head and I had anxiety. I was checking for emotional responses when I was looking at girls but nothing happened so I shrugged it off. But then there were 3 other times where I got anxiety/nervousness and I thought that means I am attracted to these girls. My question here was this also HOCD back then? I mean I had no intrusive thoughts back then I was just scared of being it and this thought was still back in my head. But now that I saw that you said that anxiety can trick us in feeling something and I just misinterpretended it because the anxiety was/is still there. —Sometimes people experience intrusive thoughts as sudden bursts of awareness of unwanted material;. Sometimes people experience intrusive thoughts as more general fears the way you describe it. >>>>Last year in August I met my boyfriend online and I wanted to visit him as soon as I was feeling better with my anxiety of getting a heart attack. I was looking in the mirror and I was thinking “He will not like you. Look at your body/face” (We are skyping every day so he already saw me and I saw him) Then I was pretty down and checked Facebook for any messages and I saw a photo of a girl and then the anxiety and nervousness came back and then it happened. “Oh my god. Does that mean I am gay?” and that’s when all the intrusive thoughts came into my head. I was depressed, I can’t sleep and It’s the First thing I think of when waking up and going to bed. The thought and the anxiety are always there. I went to my therapist and he said he is pretty sure that I have OCD. The funny thing is that my anxiety for my heart completly disappeared since HOCD took the place. —Yes, OCD does that. >>>>And since that day my brain tells me stuff like “You are not attracted/ You don’t love your boyfriend because you are gay” “Come on I know you like girls” and I was fighting it. I did a lot of compulsions. Looking through the Internet to look for an answer “Am I gay?” Of course there was no answer. But then I tried to look at a lot of HOCD Forums to see what other people have gone through. And I could relate to a lot of people with their symptoms. Like not watching TV because there a women. Not going outside. Etc. And then I was like “Okay I want to get better. I want this to end.” I looked at many sides to see what you can do and then I found the ERP and my first thought was “No way what If I find out I like all this stuff and that means I am gay and I had to leave my boyfriend who I don’t want to lose.” —The idea that we should avoid exposure because we might discover something in the process that could make us lose the things we care about is an unhelpful idea. After all, the avoidance, mental review, and other compulsive behaviors that keep you focused on this fear are significantly more likely to result in losing the things you care about than anything else. The OCD is a bigger threat to your happiness than being gay would be. Thankfully, those aren’t your only choices, but you need to do the CBT work to get better. >>>>I was scared but I tried to make small steps for now. I googled sexy women and forced myself to stay in the situation even if I wanted to shut down my laptop and start to panic. But I did it my anxiety decreased (Oh I am also taking meds) and I just felt nothing. And I was proud of myself. I am trying to do stuff I normally prevent because I didn’t want to think “Oh you think she looks pretty that means you are gay”. I think I improved a little bit. —Good work. >>>>What is still a hard thing is the thoughts around my boyfriend “You don’t love him. You don’t want to see him. Leave him and go get a girl.” That is something which gets me every time and I fight with my head by giving him evidence that this is just ocd and that I do love him. It’s really hard. —You’re doing a self-reassurance compulsion by repeatedly telling yourself it;s just ocd and you really love him. If you keep reminding yourself of something you already know, then your brain can only conclude there must be some doubt that makes the reminder necessary. A better strategy would be to say, “OK, maybe I don;t love him nd maybe I will go for girls, but right now I think I’ll just hang out for a while and see what happens.” >>>Sometimes I have short times where I know I am not gay and I am thinking like “why was I freaking out so much” but yeah this is ocd and it always came back with the anxiety and the doubt. My parents have no idea about this whole HOCD thing and they think I am in denial which made everything worse and I was depressed again, couldn’t eat etc. Because they said I never had sex so I can’t tell what my sexual orientation is which I think is completely nonsense. —I agree, nonsense. Only a person who knows nothing about sexuality would believe that sexual orientation is just about sex. >>>>If you ask a homosexual virgin if he is really gay because he can’t know if he never had sex he still would say yes because he is attracted to the same sex. And I am attracted to men. So I was trying to explain them my Situation but they just don’t understand. And one last question also which is really hard is that I am thinking about past events and literally everything is for OCD a thing where he can tell me “See! That means you are gay” that’s really exhausting and I try not to think about past events. Where seriously nothing happened but for ocd it looks like a big deal. Is it good to try not to think about past events or should I think about it and let me ocd talk? —You need to consider what the function of a behavior is before you determine if it is a compulsion or an exposure. From what you describe, the function of reviewing your past is to try to get certainty about your sexual orientation. So I would describe that as a form of compulsive mental review. Yosh January 29, 2016 at 4:22 pm - Reply Is usually in this disorder see all the guys walking down the street? I’m a male. I’m 35. I have been obssesed about mi sexuality since i was twenty. The worst for me is when i walk and i notice a goodlooking guy. I have to see him. I have to do that fourty or fifty times a day. It’s a hell. I allways loved woman y i have been in two larges relationships. I fell deep in love. I was free of ocd for three years (22/27) but then i started again. Jon Hershfield February 1, 2016 at 2:42 pm - Reply Hi, it’s clear that you are upset by these thoughts, but not clear why you are upset about seeing people in your field of vision that happen to be male. If your ocd is trying to tell you that noticing people of the same sex must mean something about you sexual orientation, I would challenge this assertion. Good looking guys are part of the landscape, so unless you have vision problems, you are going to see them. What you tell yourself about seeing them, what stories you spin, that is up to you. Yosh January 29, 2016 at 4:31 pm - Reply I have to add that when i was free for four years of ocd i never notice guys. And never looked at a guy until this ocd started. Thanks doc Jon Hershfield February 1, 2016 at 2:43 pm - Reply More likely you noticed guys and didn’t register that noticing them was important enough to remember. Yosh January 29, 2016 at 4:38 pm - Reply It seems an obligation. I have lost my atraction for girls and i think about that stuff 24/7. When i have to see a goodlooking guy in the street, tv, newspaper or Facebook i have anxiety and i compare this feelings with the feelings of attraction all the times. Jon Hershfield February 1, 2016 at 2:45 pm - Reply What you are calling “think about” is actually compulsive mental review. Comparing your feelings and testing for attraction are also compulsions. Compulsions function for you as a safety behavior to protect from discovering that you could be gay. Safety behaviors send the message to your brain that you must be in danger. therefore, the more you “think” and compare and analyze what you happen to notice, the more fear and doubt you will find yourself in. A better strategy would be to engage in some form of treatment for your ocd, either through a therapist if you can access one, or through a self-CBT workbook of some kind. Yosh January 29, 2016 at 6:12 pm - Reply I have to look at many guys constantly and monitoring my feelings but sometimes i feel something in my chest similar to my old feelings when i looked at womans. Is dificult for me live in this hell. I still have sex with girls only and i enjoy it. I love girls but i have to look at every goodlooking guy in the street. If i have a dinner in a restaurant and the waiter is handsome i suffer so much. I have to close my eyes and my ass and then i have to look. It’s horrible. Sorry Jon Hershfield February 1, 2016 at 2:50 pm - Reply >>>>I have to look at many guys constantly and monitoring my feelings —No, you choose to do this monitoring because you believe it protects you from turning gay. It is a compulsion and it keeps the obsession at the forefront. >>>but sometimes i feel something in my chest similar to my old feelings when i looked at womans. —Compulsive testing makes your feelings totally unreliable, so assessing them is futile until you have stopped testing. >>>Is dificult for me live in this hell. I still have sex with girls only and i enjoy it. —Hell? Maybe just an obsession. >>>I love girls but i have to look at every goodlooking guy in the street. If i have a dinner in a restaurant and the waiter is handsome i suffer so much. I have to close my eyes and my ass and then i have to look. It’s horrible. —Again, you get too comfortable with saying you “have to” do things and you start believe it is true when it clearly isn’t. You choose to do these compulsions as an alternative to accepting uncertainty and standing up to your ocd. And all of this just makes your obsession more powerful. My recommendation is to keep your eyes (and ass I guess) open, notice what you notice, including the thoughts and feelings, and allow them to be whatever they are while you continue to pursue, have sex with, and enjoy women since that is apparently your preference. Yosh February 1, 2016 at 5:16 pm - Reply Thank doc! I have been living with this disorder since 2000. In 2003 i won OCD and i was free four years but then, in 2007, this stuff came back. I’m seeing a therapist but i don’t improve. I don’t know why. Maybe i need ERP but in my country is dificult find a good therapist for that disorder. When i won ocd i was very happy and i laughed about my fears. I knew it was only anxiety but then all returned. It’s dificult. I am allways reading about hocd, it’s other compulsion. Thanks and good luck Jon Hershfield February 2, 2016 at 5:48 pm - Reply The excessive reading (reassurance seeking) about HOCD will certainly impede progress. If you cannot find a therapist who specializes in OCD where you are, my recommendation would be either to find a therapist who at least practices CBT and ask if they are willing to read up on ERP and the treatment of OCD, or use a self-help CBT workbook to construct your own ERP. Joe February 6, 2016 at 2:23 am - Reply Hello, Jon. I’ve last commented on this topic a while ago, as I was working really hard to figure things out and answer some questions for myself. To recap what I said to you on earlier occasions: I’ve had serious and really disfunctional doubts about my sexuality, at first exacerbated by early exposure to homoerotic media, then my apparent liking of the said media coupled with increasing doubts about enjoying heterosexual fantasies, then after having several crushes on girls, starting to notice attractive guys (and attractive people in general) much more, and trying to put that discovery in a satisfactory context, which only lead to increasingly intense and confusing emotional reactions (anxiety, butterflies, urge to stare until calmed down, undeniable visual appreciation/attraction), and all of that contributed to fairly regular cycles of extreme anxiety followed by periods when I felt more confident in my behaviours, thoughts and fantasies. Anyway, I’ve been ‘self-treating’ for quite some time, (nothing weird, just trying to apply mindfulness, some common sense and acceptance into my anxiety cycles and (mostly) accidental exposures and triggers, and even though my emotional and physical responses didn’t really take a 180 degree turn, I’ve been able to push through anxiety, mostly by acceptance and finding worth in the things that define me. All said and done, I’m feeling more confident, more scared and more uncertain about this than ever (if this makes sense) because I’m at a point where all the intense anxiety is being replaced by acceptance, which is a scary thing on it’s own. Accepting that I have fluid sexual feelings and responses now puts things in the context of ”I know I’m not 100% straight (as defined by attraction/fantasy criteria), and that’s cool, but what if acceptance of the present and the feeling of liberation it brings is just me (gasp!) willingly inching closer and closer to gay? Should I even care, sometimes I dont even care about what’s going on in my head and I haven’t felt like that ever, it feels amazing! But is that good or bad?” TL;DR: Made progress, which lead to mixed feelings about my progress. Thank you immeasurably! Joe Jon Hershfield February 20, 2016 at 5:12 pm - Reply Frustration aside, it does sound like you are making progress. “100% anything” should be suspicious. Feelings should be mixed. That’s how feelings are. Just do your best to live a life outside of your head and in accordance with your values. Jesus March 9, 2016 at 8:49 am - Reply Hi John, I want to do this once only since so I apologize in advance if its long. I know this is or could be searching for reassurance however I want to know how to deal with things and structure my thoughts. A brief intro of myself is a normal dude at 17 I started being very active sexually (college). First OCD (I think) experience at 21 thought I had gotten a girl pregnant and left the country for school the morning after which started a series of events (HIV and STD’s) OCD etc. I overcame it mostly through constant testing that luckily is almost 100% certain yet the OCD lasted for over a year followed by depression, which I too overcame. Since then I continued very active sexually but I have had 4 experiences that have changed me. First “different” experience in France after excessive drinking (potentially being drugged in a very shady place or maybe I tell myself that) I ended up with a transgender person making out going to his/her place and almost having sex, somewhere in the middle I decided it was not my thing although I did grab the penis for a second in the moment. I was drunk and alone nobody would’ve known yet I still stopped so I don’t know how to interpret this, I constantly think about sex and I’m into almost anything a girl would tell me so I don’t know if its some hidden gay thought, or just experimenting or what. In any case I spent a couple days depressed anxious and with time I just forgot it. Second was actually a few experiences different girls giving me oral sex started poking the backdoor which I enjoyed, at first was anxious but I too let go since I’ve read much about the famous G spot and I considered it normal. This last one however was the cherry in the cake. After two more years of enjoying a lot (I mean it) of heterosexual sex and feeling fulfilled by a great yearlong relationship I came yet to another country. Third happened in Asia, After a night drinking and taking MDMA(once again) I ended up in a club where two gay guys approached and invited me for drinks to a different after hour club, I refused without any second thoughts yet when they told me their sister wanted to have sex with me I left with them. In the taxi I had an unseal erection almost ejaculation. I don’t know if it was some twisted orgy unconscious vibe or experimenting rush or I don’t know but the morning after I was confused and depressed as fuck. Everything’s downhill from there. I had a match with another transgender in Tinder and had an erection and I experimented stimulating myself anally but all of this just brought anxiety, remorse, self-loathing, depression and eventual suicide thoughts. I had sex with 3 more girls in the meanwhile having normal erections, a couple rounds a night and enjoyed them a lot, felt good the morning after however most of the time everything’s regular HOCD I cant tell what feelings are normal what makes me normally hard or not what I enjoy or not enjoy but sometimes I just feel like giving up quit trying to get better and just be mediocre. I don’t know how to treat this. Its obvious its got OCD involved, however theres more I think. As for the rest I don’t know is it an arousal addiction, bisexuality or what not. I just miss having a normal life, peace of mind and to know who I am. Any suggestion is welcome. I could get a lot more into detail but this is long enough. I thank you in advance for your time and patience. Jon Hershfield March 10, 2016 at 1:00 pm - Reply The running theme in your story is irresponsible drug use and co-occurring irresponsible sexual behavior with people you don’t seem to have feelings for. Trying to be certain and get the “right interpretation” of things that occurred during these interactions is compulsive. Sexual experimentation is fine if the intention is to express your interest in sexuality as you see it, but you appear to be running “experiments” on yourself that are driven only to get certainty about sexual orientation, a compulsion guaranteed to make you miserable. So there is clearly an obsessive fear of being gay and a compulsive approach to addressing it, but I think the more pressing issue interfering in your pursuit of happiness is the drug use and impulsive sexual behavior that makes you feel removed from your values. In your other post, you mentioned identifying with romantic comedies. This may be the other end of an unrealistic view of intimacy, but where does Tinder fall on this spectrum? In any case, to address the HOCD, you need to start by choosing to be open to uncertainty and willing to feel unsure without testing. Jesus March 9, 2016 at 9:05 am - Reply Briefly I forgot to kinda emphasize how genuinely I’ve always loved women, I know this is not to convince my self but at many points of my life I’ve been a classic dude, a good bum would kill me or a great pair of boobs. Genuinely make my heartbeat go faster thing that another dude never achieved however since this started that has disappeared and its both depressing and scary. I use to watch romantic comedies wih my ex and just love the happy ending imagine it to be mine with her now that I’ve lost hope it depresses me. Paige March 26, 2016 at 1:07 am - Reply Hi, for the last couple months I have been suffering from this. Firstly I will say that I am only fifteen years old. I have always liked boys. When I was little I had crushes on boys and was a total girly girl. I started having intrusive thoughts three years ago which has lead to this. I’m starting to question myself and everything around me. I don’t want to be gay. I never want to be gay. I’m very religious and so is my family. I feel if I tell them they will not accept it at all, they won’t understand that I cannot stop these thoughts from entering my head. I have a best friend, like most girls do, and we are really close. The other day we were watching a movie and she was resting her head on my shoulder when I got this irrational thought “what if I kissed her?” “Do I want to?” “Would I like it?” My stomach started hurting really bad and I got sweaty and had a lot of anxiety. I was getting so scared that I perform this irrational act. I was driving myself crazy and still am over this. I’m scared I’m gay, and I never want to be. I need help to understand why this is happening… Please Help!! Jon Hershfield March 30, 2016 at 8:37 pm - Reply Sorry you are feeling so distraught over this. You mentioned in your post that you believe you are suffering with “this” which I presume to mean the form of OCD discussed in this blog and the three that preceded it. So “why this is happening” may be best understood as you having an obsession. Your intrusive thoughts about sexualizing or romanticizing your friend are one of the common ways this obsession presents. Your efforts to prove you would never do something against your values only make you more insecure about your fear. My recommendation would be to ask your parents for help finding a therapist that specializes in OCD. If you feel you can’t tell them the content of your obsession, then don’t. You could tell them it’s so awful to you that you’ll only talk to a therapist about it. If you can’t access a therapist, then you’ll have to do your own CBT work, which is highlighted in these blogs and discussed in several different books on OCD. The sooner you stop trying to prove you won’t become gay, the sooner you will stop feeling threatened by your intrusive thoughts that you could become gay. I'mReallyAfraid March 28, 2016 at 8:30 pm - Reply I’m a 15 years old boy and 3 months ago ,I had a normal and happy life as a straight boy until i triggered an obsession(I might do grammatical mistakes,i’m not a native speaker of english)…Well , I always been afraid of gay people ,I couldn’t even think about 2 men having sex or kissing without getting desgusted and anxious.I couldn’t understood them like”What is in their mind?How could you do that with another man?” When I was watching movies with my parents/friends/myself ,if would appeared a scene with gay ,I would skip that part ,I would be too scared ,terrified I could say ,about that scene. Instead ,I was always attracted to women.I remember that I was in nursery school when I had my first crush (a girl) I think I was 6.At the age of 11, for the first time I was really attached to a girl from my school ,we were talking daily ,I blushed every time when I saw her and I was thinking a lot about her and I liked her 2 years or more.That was the first time when I felt love.(At least ,maximum that you could feel at that age).After her I fell in love with many girls.I started to masturbate on straight porn at the age of 10. In general ,I was masturbating a lot (On streight porn,only straight porn).Well ,everything start this year ,on my first high school year.In november 2015 I fell in love again ,but this time was different ,every feeling was intensified.I used to see her daily ,I’m pretty sure that I came to love her but we wasn’t in an official relationship..In December 2015 we broke up like we don’t even talk to each other anymore. Now ,the hell begins…On the day of 7 January (I will never forgot this date all my life) ,I got a little bit drunk with some friends and we were walking on the street late night.When a friend of mine (drunk as well) kissed me on the cheek and in my mind I was like (What the fu*k?).Anyway ,when I came home ,I watched some male models ,I used to watch pictures with male stars like David Beckham ,Brad Pitt ,etc I watched them just to see how they dress ,how they act ,I was admiring them.And the next second I told myself “What the f*uck ,a friend of mine kissed me on the cheek ,now I’m watching males ,what the f*ck?” then I started to ask myself like “What if I liked that kiss?” ,”What if i’m gay?” And then, I was terrified ,I think I was never in my life more scared then I was in that moment.Next day ,I didn’t think on something else ,I was starting the obsession.It took a week ,all that week I thought only about “What if i’m gay?” “My life would be destroyed” ,I was totally disgusted about that thoughts and I couldn’t get rid of them.The thoughts stopped for a few days because I started to be attracted of a girl from high school but I passed her (I found out that she is not my type of girl that I like).After that ,the intrusive thoughts appeared again but intensified this time.I was scared ,at school ,I didn’t let another male classmates to approach me ,I avoided all my classmates (boys) because I thought that I might start like them.When I was walking on the street ,I looked to men to see if i’m attracted to them and something in my mind started to tell me that i am attracted to them and i was like “No,No,please no,im streight”.More attention I paied ,more powerful and real thoughts started to look like.I started to imagine myself kissing another man ,i was totally desgusted and scared ,I felt a thrill in my body.I started to do a lot of tests ,watching gay porn to see if i’m aroused (I never got hard on them) ,imagine myself kissing with another man to check how i feel.I started to read about gay stories and sexual orientation to make sure that i’m not going to turn gay.I eliminated from my behavior every gesture that might “be gay” ,I started to pay attention on the way that I walk,the way that I stay on the chair,the way that I talk…just to make sure that my behavior streight.I was never faithful in God ,I considered myself atheist but after a mouth of this crap I started to belive in God ,I started to pray for myself ,I choose to die then being gay.All this time I couldn’t think to something else.I don’t watch my favourite TV Shows or movies anymore because i’m afraid that I might be attracted to male actors.I got anxious even when I pronounce the word “homosexual”.BUT ,I fell again in love with another girl ,I got into a relationship with her,I really liked her and my intrusive thoughts stopped,again.The relationship lasted just 2 weeks,after we broke up.I liked the way that she kiss,the way that she looks,she is a beautiful girl,but I found out that she wasn’t honest with me.After that relationship,thoughts about being gay came back,OCD told me something like “You re not really attracted to girls” and that made me sick.Everything was intensified ,I had moments when I was convinced that i’m gay ,I started to cry.All these thoughts were killing me ,made me sick ,I was disgusted ,I started to hate myself.I was asking myself 24/7 “What if i-m gay?” “What if I always been gay and i’m just in denial”.I felt like a scratch on my brain.I checked myself looking to pictures with naked man to see if i’m aroused (I always passed that test,I never got aroused)I became tired of all this crap ,I just wanted my past life.I started to sleep a lot (11-12-13 hours,I read that this is produced by stress)I started to read more about HOCD and I perfectly found myself there.I started to learn more about some therapies like CBT and ERP.I started to told myself “These are just thoughts ,it’s just in my head ,I have the power to do what I want to do,this thoughts are totally unrealistic and can’t turn me gay if my whole life I was attracted to women”.We are approaching from my actual condition… The anxiety was reduced ,I started to recover myself.The thoughts were reduced ,for the first time I started to enjoy my life with less stress ,masturbating at streight porn without asking myself if I am aroused by the women from the video or the man…I started to realise that all this staff was a big crap ,a week ago I was like “What was in my mind?”.I realised that everything was just in my mind ,was just ocd telling me all those lies.That happened one or two weeks ago..But 4-5 days ago ,the thoughts came back ,but this time ,I wasn’t anxious anymore ,they didn’t scare me anymore ,And I was “wtf?”…I started again with compulsions,checking myself ,imagining myself kissing a guy and im not scared about that anymore…But then ,OCD (I hope is still OCD) made me ask myself “What if it doesn t make me anxious because i m gay and i like these thoughts”…And this make me sick..I just don’t want to be gay ,I want to be straight ,hanging with girls.Last night I found on facebook a beautiful girl and she is in my high school ,I thought about her all night ,I like her a little ,I think she is so beautiful,I feel so right when i’m imagine myself with her.But after a few seconds OCD (I hope is still OCD) tells me that I don’t really like her (But in my mind I know I like her).Today ,in the bus station I saw a pretty girl ,I was looking sideways at her ,even in the bus,I was looking at her.When I came back from school ,I saw a guy on the street and checked myself imagining what I would feel If I would kiss him and we would be in a romantic moment.And my OCD (Again,I really hope OCD) made me feel that I like that ,that I might fell in love with him,and im not so anxious like i used to be,and this is scaring me ,when i’m thinking about that,in my mind i’m just telling myself “no,no,no,is disgusting,no,no” but i’m wondering why it doesn’t scratch my brain anymore when I’m thinking about that.Actually ,the fact that i’m not anxious ,make me anxious ,nervous.If you read all of my story,you’re a hero,now,what do you think about that?Is just OCD struggling or all of this nightmare that lasted more than 3 months really might turn me gay?I can’t find a man attractive like the way that I see a woman but somthing in my head keeps telling me that i’m in denial. Jon Hershfield March 30, 2016 at 8:50 pm - Reply There’s a lot going on in this comment, so I’ll just make a few brief comments. You seem to be engaging in a lot of self-reassurance and mental rituals designed to prove to yourself that you are not gay. You did what you described as CBT and your anxiety went down, but it sounds more like you just reassured yourself a lot and felt better, which really isn’t CBT, only to relapse over it later on. If you want to tackle this obsession, you need to stop checking and testing your feelings, do ERP to the idea that you may never lock down your sexual orientation, accept the presence of thoughts about denial instead of trying to neutralize them, and commit to behavioral choices that are in line with your values. If you have access to an OCD specialist or at least an OCD workbook, that would be useful. I'mReallyAfraid April 4, 2016 at 9:47 am - Reply As you said,my anxiety went down and when i try to do ERP to the idea that i may never lock down my sexual orientation and i imagine that maybe I will fell in love for a guy in future (imagining this without testing myself,without imagining myself with a guy) make me feel better,i mean,i feel how the stress disappear for a couple of seconds and every though about “being gay” dissapear.But next seconds ,I am afraid and i stop doing the ERP because i’m afraid that I might find pleasure in this and I will turn gay,i’m afraid that i might discover something about me that I didn’t know util now…Should I trust myself and continue practicing on that idea(knowing deep inside me that this can’t change my sexual orientation)?I spent my whole life being in love with girls and I never doubted my sexual orientation until i started this obsession ,I was a happy straight teen and honestly ,i’m really sad that this is happening to me and I can’t enjoy my life how i did in the past.There is no ocd therapist in my city and i look for help everywhere i can.Thanks Jon Hershfield April 7, 2016 at 2:26 pm - Reply You are saying that ERP works, but then when you get scared, you stop doing what works. You need to learn to do what works while also being scared. I'mReallyAfraid April 6, 2016 at 8:05 pm - Reply I need to do an update to the comment that is awaiting for moderation right now.I know that i said into it that i’m not capable to do erp to the idea that you suggested me because it was triggering a spike like “if i’m allright with that and the idea of accepting thoughts make me feel better and i feel like the hocd fade away ,maybe that’s because i’m gay” and after that I give up to your suggestion of ERP because i was too scared.Yesterday I made tha decision that you are a specialist and I should do what you told me so today I started to focus on the idea that maybe my sexual orientation could be fluid and i have to accept all those thoughts and uncertainity without testing anything.When I do that ,the obsession is diminuated and I don’t feel like I need to “check” anything like i used to do.I actually feel like the Ocd is fading away but i’m still sad,and I feel like i’m not straight anymore (even If I fell in love with a girl and i’m aroused at girls).I have a question: Is it normal to feel like i’m not straight anymore plus a general state of sadness? This is really making me upset ,I just want to enjoy girls and I really want to know if this is an attempt of the hocd to persist in my head.Beside this problem,I think the erp to the idea that maybe I’ll never remain straight and accepting every thought without compulsions ,is working.And another question:How is this going to end? I will woke up and be how I was in the past or the obsession is slowly fading away?What should I do next?Thanks,I really appreciate (P.S: Is a site called ocdla and they have a clinic in L.A wich is treating hocd,they have an online test wich says if you suffer from Hocd or not. I hited 23 boxes from 27 and they told me that I suffer from Hocd) As I already said,I miss my past life and I really want to take it back.Thanks,I really appreciate your work. Jon Hershfield April 7, 2016 at 8:56 pm - Reply >>>Is it normal to feel like i’m not straight anymore plus a general state of sadness? This is really making me upset ,I just want to enjoy girls and I really want to know if this is an attempt of the hocd to persist in my head. —-If you over-monitor your feelings, you will always find your feelings to be synthetic. You appear to be compulsively checking to see if you “feel straight” which is making you feel off. >>>>Beside this problem,I think the erp to the idea that maybe I’ll never remain straight and accepting every thought without compulsions ,is working.And another question:How is this going to end? I will woke up and be how I was in the past or the obsession is slowly fading away? —-Everyone’s different, but it’s probably best looked at like dieting or physical fitness. You notice over weeks that your clothes fit better. You don’t actually see the weight come off. Similarly, you may notice one day that it’s been a long time since you checked to see how you were doing. >>>What should I do next?Thanks,I really appreciate (P.S: Is a site called ocdla and they have a clinic in L.A wich is treating hocd,they have an online test wich says if you suffer from Hocd or not. I hited 23 boxes from 27 and they told me that I suffer from Hocd) —I don��t recommend taking any online tests seriously. They’re just marketing tools, not psychological evaluations. That being said, I would move forward as if you have OCD. You seem to be on to an approach that is working. I'mReallyAfraid April 10, 2016 at 8:59 pm I continued doing the erp,2 days ago i was in a bar where i saw a lot of lesbians and in that night i was expoused a lot.Me and my best friend (a couple of days i was afraid that i might sudenlly fell in love with him,having unwanted thoughts about kissing him) We started picking up girls ,I felt awensome in that night.Next day was the best day in this 4 months,I wasn’t worry about my sexual orientation and I felt that my straightness came back(in the last reply i told you that i feel like i lost my straightness) Of course,I stopped checking if i like girls as you said and know I beaten this problem.Today I decided to do more exposure,reading stories about coming out.Everything was fine until i started to check if i find myself in their stories and this made my hocd worse.I found an online chat with LGBT people(was a site for discussions not porn),I started to ask gay and Bi people about my problem.A few of them told me that i’m not gay but one of them told me that i might be Bi so today I developed a fear about being Bi,I want to be just straight,not even Bi,I told them what I told you in my first comment.Now i’m scared again ,I cried a few minutes ago.I’m afraid that maybe I don’t have hocd and this is making me sick.When i wrote to you for the first time I told you that I was afraid that i might fell in love with my best friend and I checked to see if I like kissing him and after a few days of checking, I felt nothing ( I was aspecting to feel disgust) and then i became afraid that i might like that.I have 2 questions: 1) Can hocd make me feel that i like those thoughts?I got terrified when I accidentally check and the though don’t bother me anymore.When I though that i may like this thoughts about kissing another guy are making me cry. 2)Could you say that I have Hocd ?I’m afraid that maybe those “false feelings” could be real and maybe I don’t have Hocd and this is destroying me.I know that i made a huge progress these days because yesterday I felt awensome ,I felt that I am going to take back my past life…and today everything run out of control again…I just need to know your opinion ,could you “diagnose” me with Ocd?I found every symptom in me. (P.S I don’t know it this mean something but since in know myself ,I was engaging in a lot of acts like”If i don’t run on the stairs in 15 seconds,my mom will do an accident” and i’m always reassuring about anything ex: at school I ask the teacher twice to see if he really gave me the mark that i think he gave me.)I just need to ask you because everything that you told me worked. Jon Hershfield April 12, 2016 at 2:00 pm You say you stopped compulsive checking and started to get better. Then you say you started to check again and got worse. I’m not sure you really need me to add any insights here. Alejandro March 29, 2016 at 12:01 am - Reply Hi. I think I can use some help today. I’ve been suffering of what I think is HOCD for about 4 years now. I´ve been diagnosed several times, but I am still doubting who I am. Besides, and althought doctors say I have OCD, I am, from Venezuela, and it has been really hard for me to find an OCD specialist. Something has been bugging lately, and that’s why I ask for your help. I had never had a gay fantasy in my life, and that was my proof I wasn´t gay (I know that is reassurence, but I can´t help it). But. a month ago, while I was trying to prove I wasn´t gay imagining gay scenarios, I thought about a handsome man, and it did nothing for me. But then, I thougth something like “If I look like that, I’d probably have a lot of sex” with women, of course. And I imagine myself as someone better looking, having straight sex, and it aroused me. I dindn´t imagine another man’s body, I believe, it was just me, having sex, imagining it would be easier if I was better looking. At that time, it reassured me, because I was being aroused by straight things. and not by gay thoughts. But a week ago, I thought that, although it was straight sex, it kind of involved another man. And that’s when I lost myself. I have been searching a lot, trying to find if that counts as a gay fantasy, and I am really scared. Sometimes I think it is normal, because it was a thought about straight sex, and if imagine just a handsome man, that looks like I wish I looked, it doesn´t arouse me. So, my question is: was that gay? Was that a gay fantasy? Am I accepting all my fears? Did I turned gay? Thak you very much for taking time to answer, your blog has always been really useful for me, and has helped me letting go some of my obssesions. Jon Hershfield March 31, 2016 at 1:25 am - Reply >>>>>Hi. I think I can use some help today. I’ve been suffering of what I think is HOCD for about 4 years now. I´ve been diagnosed several times, but I am still doubting who I am. —-Sounds like OCD so far. >>>>Besides, and althought doctors say I have OCD, I am, from Venezuela, and it has been really hard for me to find an OCD specialist. Something has been bugging lately, and that’s why I ask for your help. I had never had a gay fantasy in my life, and that was my proof I wasn´t gay —-How is the absence of a fantasy proof of something? I haven’t fantasized about going to Venezuela, but hadn’t considered this proof I would never go there. >>>>(I know that is reassurence, but I can´t help it). —Still sounds like OCD. >>>>But. a month ago, while I was trying to prove I wasn´t gay imagining gay scenarios, I thought about a handsome man, and it did nothing for me. But then, I thougth something like “If I look like that, I’d probably have a lot of sex” with women, of course. And I imagine myself as someone better looking, having straight sex, and it aroused me. I dindn´t imagine another man’s body, I believe, it was just me, having sex, imagining it would be easier if I was better looking. At that time, it reassured me, because I was being aroused by straight things. and not by gay thoughts. But a week ago, I thought that, although it was straight sex, it kind of involved another man. And that’s when I lost myself. I have been searching a lot, trying to find if that counts as a gay fantasy, and I am really scared. Sometimes I think it is normal, because it was a thought about straight sex, and if imagine just a handsome man, that looks like I wish I looked, it doesn´t arouse me. So, my question is: was that gay? Was that a gay fantasy? Am I accepting all my fears? Did I turned gay? Thak you very much for taking time to answer, your blog has always been really useful for me, and has helped me letting go some of my obssesions. —-There a few things going on here. First, you are not the first person I have encountered who became aroused by the male image as a function of imagining himself embodying that image. Actually, you’re not even the first person to contact me about this in the last week. So take from that what you will. Second, and more importantly, you are doing a ton of mental rituals that make it very unlikely for your obsession to improve at this time. The deep analysis, checking, testing, and ruminating are all behaviors that give the obsession a reason to stay and your brain a reason to think these mental investigations must have merit. A better strategy would be to interfere in your mental rituals and try not to figure out what is or is not fantasy and whether or not that is supposed to mean something. My recommendation is to implement CBT tools in the treatment of your OCD, preferably with the guidance of an ocd specialist therapist. Julian April 19, 2016 at 4:37 pm - Reply Dear Jon, Hope you are fine and enjoying the Maryland spring. I am back in the UK as my wife is doing a phd at a uni here. Fortunately i am on the waiting list for intensive CBT treatment,(god, do i need it after about 30 years with intrusive thoughts, gay fears, compulsions etc) ……about a 6 month waiting list as there is a bit of a NHS mental health crisis over here…I keep getting letters asking if i still want to be on the waiting list or if im ok now…..or topped myself already!…..not funny really as there are many cases of this while people are waiting. Fortunately , after big mental health campaigns in newspapers, ONGs etc the govt has pledged much more funding and training of therapists. Anyway, i cant wait to get started, I have been good, and busy with a new job (pretty menial but fun and pays the rent!) . I dont get the hocd thoughts so much, just the oral sex ones occasionally, these seem to have moved to my 3 yr old somewhere i get often incessant images , thoughts, sensations in my mouth when with him. These thoughts get me really down and i’ve been depressed the last few days. The thoughts are almost all the time, most of the day. I’ve been thinking about why i do compulsions? whats the point? why have i done them for so long? I will still have the thought , whether or not i do the compulsions! so why do them? They will not make thoughts that i have already had go away! Anyway, the think that kills me is that i am analysing the thoughts, to see if i like the thoughts, ( acting them out in my mind) I feel like a surge of adrenalin or anxiety all over my body which feels both good and not good, if that makes sense. Its a similar feeling to when you are angry or want to punch a driver who has gone thru a red light etc. It feel like an urge to do something prohibited or wrong , as if i want to do it. Why do i feel like this, is this common in oCD? whats the explanation? Other disgusting sick images (licking sucking) feel the same. Also as i would never do or have done such things, how can my mind know what it feels like? Also, i guess sucking anything feels nice, a lollipop, thumb, etc. With all these images, thoughts there is absolutely no sexual arousal whatsoever, could the thoughts be some kind of oral fettish or obsession. Can checking scenarios to see if i like them actually distort what i feel or think? Some advice would be welcome. I cant accept the fact that i may like these kinds of deplorable thoughts/simulations. Thanks Julian Jon Hershfield April 25, 2016 at 12:11 pm - Reply >>>>Fortunately i am on the waiting list for intensive CBT treatment,(god, do i need it after about 30 years with intrusive thoughts, gay fears, compulsions etc) ……about a 6 month waiting list as there is a bit of a NHS mental health crisis over here…I keep getting letters asking if i still want to be on the waiting list or if im ok now…..or topped myself already!…..not funny really as there are many cases of this while people are waiting. Fortunately , after big mental health campaigns in newspapers, ONGs etc the govt has pledged much more funding and training of therapists. —Sounds frustrating. Sorry you have to wait so long for treatment. >>>>Anyway, i cant wait to get started, I have been good, and busy with a new job (pretty menial but fun and pays the rent!) . I dont get the hocd thoughts so much, just the oral sex ones occasionally, these seem to have moved to my 3 yr old somewhere i get often incessant images , thoughts, sensations in my mouth when with him. These thoughts get me really down and i’ve been depressed the last few days. —Thoughts alone do not have the power to get someone down. Interpretations of those thoughts and behaviors related to those interpretations do. >>> The thoughts are almost all the time, most of the day. I’ve been thinking about why i do compulsions? whats the point? why have i done them for so long? I will still have the thought , whether or not i do the compulsions! so why do them? They will not make thoughts that i have already had go away! —Good observation. >>>>Anyway, the think that kills me is that i am analysing the thoughts, to see if i like the thoughts, ( acting them out in my mind) I feel like a surge of adrenalin or anxiety all over my body which feels both good and not good, if that makes sense. —What you’re describing is a compulsion. What happens during the course of a compulsion is not new evidence of anything other than you got burned while doing compulsion. It’s like the compulsive handwasher who wasn’t sure he was dirty, then washed for OCD reasons, then got triggered thinking he may have touched the dirty faucet in the process. >>>>Its a similar feeling to when you are angry or want to punch a driver who has gone thru a red light etc. It feel like an urge to do something prohibited or wrong , as if i want to do it. Why do i feel like this, is this common in oCD? whats the explanation? —This high level analysis is part of your mental ritual, not something to be answered. >>>Other disgusting sick images (licking sucking) feel the same. Also as i would never do or have done such things, how can my mind know what it feels like? Also, i guess sucking anything feels nice, a lollipop, thumb, etc. With all these images, thoughts there is absolutely no sexual arousal whatsoever, could the thoughts be some kind of oral fettish or obsession. Can checking scenarios to see if i like them actually distort what i feel or think? —Yes. >>>>Some advice would be welcome. I cant accept the fact that i may like these kinds of deplorable thoughts/simulations. —What is the alternative to accepting uncertainty? James April 23, 2016 at 12:45 am - Reply Sorry for my english,i might do some mistakes. I always have been attracted to girls and I had many crushes on girls since nursery school… I never considered myself different from other boys and I never doubted my sexual orientation.I was always staring at beautiful girls when I was with my friends or at school.I started masturbating when I was like ten and I was a happy straight kid.I knew about the existence of gay people since I was 11 (I heared at school about that) but I couldn’t understood them ,I was like “How could you like men instead of women, what a fools”.I was afraid of them ,even when I was watching a movie ,If would appear a scene with gay people kissing or holding their hands,I would have been disgusted.I always dreamed of being around hot girls and having sexy girlfriends so for me being with girls was an important thing.When I started my first year of high school ,I made a girfriend,everything was nice and beutiful.After broke up I fell in love with another girl.I must say that being in love with a girl was a part of my life,I mean ,I always had a girl in my head ,was something normal and pleasant for me.I used to look on google at pictures with stars like David Beckham or Chris Hemsworth and others, but not in a sexual way,I wanted to act like them ,to dress like them ,to look like them ,I was never in my life aroused by a man.One evening while I was looking at haircuts a though popped up in my head “Why am I looking to them?If I am gay?”This happened this year on January,in that night I was terrified ,I hardly fell asleep.Next day I couldn’t though about something else and I wanted this thoughts to disappear fast.I started to be sad and next days I started to avoid all my classmates(boys) ,I wouldn’t let any boy to approach me too much ,I started to review my past to see If I’ve done something gay.I started to check by looking at guys on street or at school to see if i like them and all this time I was terrified ,telling myself in my head “No,no,i-m not gay,please no”.I was rapt by what was happening around me,everything was only about checking if I am gay or not.In the past I used to watch movies and TV Serials but I quit watching all of them because I was afraid that I might become attracted to some of the male characters.I’ve done compulsions like:Imagining myself kissing another guy to see if i like that (wich was disgusting me),I started watching gay porn to see if i’m aroused and i felt something around my genital zone but wasn’t an erection was like a pressure given by me because I was anxious,scared that i might get an erection (wich didn’t happen).I started to pay attention on the way that I walk,the way that I dress,even the way that I sit on the chair to make sure that i’m not acting gay and i’m masculine.I considered myself an atheist but I started to pray to God for help,I felt hopeless,guilty and disgusted.I’m always seeking for reassurance ,I started to read about sexual orientation to make sure that is fixed and it can’t sudenlly change,I searched for gay stories to find out if they were always attracted by the the same sex to reassure myself that i’m still straight like I always have been.I calmed myself when I found out that gay people were attracted by the same sex at the age that I was attracted to the opposite sex but the obsession continued.After 3 months of this rentless routine stopped for a few days and the obsession was diminuated a lot because I fell in love with a girl and I had butterflies in my stomach and I was thinking at her.I started a happy relationship with her and I really felt good after a long time of doubting and sadness.For normal reasons,we broke up,I was upset because of this broke up.The obsession came back,I became tired of it so I searched for help,I found out about hocd earlier ,but from that moment I started to look for how to beat it.I started to say that i’m gay and I have to accept that.I kept this for a few days,of course those days were the most painful days that I ever went through.After those few days ,I couldn’t endure it anymore and I said “NO,NO,NO ,I’m not gay,I’M STRAIGHT like i always have been”.Of course,fighting the thoughts fueled the obsession.The disease won again.The routine of compulsions came back but this time something was different.When I imagined myself kissing another guy,it didn’t bother me like it used to do.In the next second I was totally terrified because of that and a though popped up in my head like”Maybe it doesn’t bother me anymore because i’m gay” and the anxiety intensified.When I started to analyze this more and more,the obsession was telling me that this is what I want and everytime I responsed to it with “no.no,stop,i don’t want that,I want my past life back”and it became more real…I tried not to let this ilness to ruinate my social life anymore,I started to talk to my friends again and hangout like we used to do.When I met my friends ,we started to talk,laugh,talking about girls(wich make me feel so good).suddenly,a thought popped up in my head”If I am attracted to my best friend?”( We are talking about one of my best friends and i know him for 4-5 years)And this terrified me,disgusted me.Fortunately ,this thought lasted short while(one or two days)I decided to fight this obsession but this time I was better informed.I tried to do “ERP” to the Idea that I MIGHT be gay ,knowing that hocd can’t change my sexual orientation.I stoped every type of checking and I tried to ignore if a moment of triggering would appear by saying”Yeah,of course,i-m gay”.Without realizing,I was checking to see if girls still arouse me and this made me feel like I lost my attraction to women(wich scared me,again).I solved this problem by stopping checking,when I stopped,the attraction to girls came back,wich calmed me.Now I’m doing a lot of erp,looking to things that would trigger the obsession without checking anything and for the last 2 weeks I guess,the obsession has diminuated a little bit but for a while,this ilness prepared another gun for me ,wich make me ask myself If i’m really suffering from HOCD or it’s just me in denial(this is making me very anxious)I had some desperate moments of hopeless since I triggered this obsession in Januray 7 when this ilness made me believe that i’m gay (temporary) and I cried a lot.I’m sorry that this was so long but it’s my entire story.My question is:From your experience,does this sound like OCD ?Thank you a lot,I appreciate your work. Jon Hershfield April 25, 2016 at 3:29 pm - Reply Yes Arthur April 25, 2016 at 7:23 am - Reply Hi Jon, great article you share there, it might explain a lot of my HOCD behavior(I am guy). But I had a question here, when I reading the “Loving Your Friends” section, I notice that you written “I can tell you what HOCD sufferers often fear is gay denial and simply isn’t: Anxious butterflies in your stomach when you get a call from or see your friend”, does this mean that HOCD sufferer won’t having a butterfly feeling towards there same-sex friend?(Sorry for my bad English). Jon Hershfield April 25, 2016 at 11:53 am - Reply No, I mean people in general may feel “butterflies” when they get a call from a friend. People with HOCD may misinterpret this as evidence of “gay denial”. Arthur April 25, 2016 at 12:45 pm - Reply Thank you for your explanation, as my first “attack” by HOCD was it seem like I am having a butterfly moment with my colleague, since then everything went hell. Rusty April 26, 2016 at 7:41 pm - Reply Alright, so here we go. I have been terrified that I have been gay for about 7 years, following a traumatic bullying experience. I’m 21 now. However whenever these questions would arise in the past, I was easily able to dismiss them as bogus because I was (and had always been) attracted to girls (tons of crushes, still a virgin however, have always had social anxiety and confidence issues), got aroused by them and what not. Simultaneously, these thoughts about being gay always disgusted me and I was able to dismiss them without too much thought. Fast forward to about 2-3 months ago. I had a childhood friend die of a suspected overdose and I subsequently got really depressed. One night at a party, a friend of mine asked me if I was gay (I have always suspected that he was himself), and since then I haven’t been able to definitively answer that question. I was unable to eat, drink, or sleep for a couple weeks and had massive panic attacks. I experienced no “arousal” from these thoughts and only fear, I heard about HOCD (I am constantly researching this topic). I eventually talked to a therapist, and the fears subsided (not completely) for a while, but they resurfaced. This time around using HOCD as an excuse simply doesn’t work, reading articles doesn’t give me the temporary calm it used too. I am pretty sure I just used it as a method for denial. I recently came to the conclusion that I was actually gay, and got actual arousal (not the BS groinal response OCD’ers experience) from these fantasies. However, after a couple days, these fantasies stopped really doing anything for me, and I couldn’t get it up for anything. Then without actively denying the presence of gay tendencies, I got aroused by an old female crush (on a couple of occasions, but one was rock-hard). After this I assumed, I was somewhere on the Kinsey Scale, not completely straight, but also not completely gay. This calmed me for a bit, but then a couple of days ago a friend directed a few gay slurs at me (not being aware of this issue that I had been having), and my house of cards simply collapsed. I couldn’t get it up for any fantasy/dream/porn for four days, but then this morning I was able to get off to the gay fantasies (and lesbian porn, for whatever reason) and my straight fantasies felt forced and numb. I am clearly obsessing over this issue, but I imagine true HOCD’ers never actually feel true arousal and some degree of enjoyment, correct? I think this post is a last ditch effort at trying to deny my true gay self. Although I have always been afraid (for 7 years) of this reality (which is why I think it is true, in addition to the sexual arousal). I am having difficulty accepting it as (complete) truth, for I have always had intense desires for girls and straight sex. I use to wake up every morning and go to sleep every night thinking about getting a girl and spending the rest of my life with her. Will I get this feeling back? Or am I permanently gay? I can’t see myself in a long term relationship with a man, or can I? Jon Hershfield May 4, 2016 at 9:38 pm - Reply There is a significant amount of rumination, confession, and reassurance seeking in this post that is hard to address line by line. You seem to have some concern that your ability to be aroused by one thing or another is some kind of a death sentence that pre-determines your orientation or fate. This kind of thinking is common in OCD. Testing your orientation through masturbation/pornography experiments is not going to produce reliable results, confidence, or least of all, certainty. My recommendation is to get CBT treatment from an OCD specialist. Rusty April 26, 2016 at 8:37 pm - Reply To add, when I get my mind of this “gay question,” which is rare I feel like my normal self. When I start obsessing or start doing some sort of compulsion (checking, attempted masturbation, reading forums like this), I just feel “gay.” But back when I thought I was straight, I never felt “straight.” It was just me. I never thought, “are you actually attracted to this girl.” I just knew I was. These gay urges/desires/arousal I’m getting now always come after a thought. I see a guy, and I say to myself, “do I want to have sex with him?” Its usually no (which I feel is denial), but there have been days and moments where I can definitively say “yes,” which sometimes scares me and sometimes doesn’t. One minute I might be laughing at the idea of having gay sex as absurd “hell no”, the next I will be paranoid about it “oh shit, am I gay,” and the next I will honestly feel into it and/or compelled to act on it, “let your guard down and enjoy it, you know its true.” When my previous crushes (on girls), for the most part happened instantaneously, without any obsessions, worries, or consideration (I think). I wasn’t worried I was gay when I was making out with this girl or that girl. Is this just part of the coming out process? Jon Hershfield May 4, 2016 at 9:40 pm - Reply As you point out, when you were not obsessed with your orientation, there was no thing as “feeling straight” and now you focus much attention on this mystical notion of “feeling gay.” This is common in this form of OCD. If you want to stop obsessing, you have to start accepting uncertainty, which means you have to stop testing your reaction to things or giving yourself these kind of mental quizzes. Darren May 2, 2016 at 6:49 pm - Reply Dear Mr. Hershfield, First I wanted to say thanks for the articles as they have really helped me out. I just had a couple of questions/statements and wanted to get your take on them. I’ve been going to therapy lately for my ocd, but I don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere. It’s like I get my reassurance, feel better for awhile, but then I continue to test and obsess over my orientation. This all started after I was watching pornogrophy, and (sorry to get graphic) I watched a woman preform oral sex. I felt like I had a “sensation” in my mouth and I immediately freaked out. I asked myself if I was gay and why would I have a feeling like that. After confiding in a friend he told me that “if that happens then you must want it”.. And after that everyday has been horrible. Which now leads me to my biggest problem, the testing. I test myself to gay and transsexual porn regularly and i feel like I’m starting to lose myself. When watching gay porn there is some slight arousal, but nothing much. But when it comes to transsexual porn there is way more arousal and this scares me. I honestly don’t feel as if I am gay, I’ve loved girls since I was a kid, and before this all I could think about was women, and how I wanted to be the perfect man for them. I definitely believe I have a porn problem, and I am working on that now before I try any ERP therapy.. My biggest question is just because I was aroused by porn that I feel like does not match my true orientation now mean that I am gay/bisexual?… I don’t like gay sex nor do I wanted to have it, but I obsess over this so much that everything is a blur. It’s like I don’t believe myself anymore. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Respectfully posted, Darren Jon Hershfield May 4, 2016 at 9:50 pm - Reply >>>>First I wanted to say thanks for the articles as they have really helped me out. I just had a couple of questions/statements and wanted to get your take on them. I’ve been going to therapy lately for my ocd, but I don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere. It’s like I get my reassurance, feel better for awhile, but then I continue to test and obsess over my orientation. —-If you are getting reassurance from your therapist, then you are not seeing a therapist that knows much about treating OCD. >>>>This all started after I was watching pornogrophy, and (sorry to get graphic) I watched a woman preform oral sex. I felt like I had a “sensation” in my mouth and I immediately freaked out. I asked myself if I was gay and why would I have a feeling like that. After confiding in a friend he told me that “if that happens then you must want it”. —Your friend sounds like a jerk. I watched someone eat toast in a movie once and felt a sensation in my mouth. Didn’t result in me getting up to make toast. Sensations happen. >>>>. And after that everyday has been horrible. Which now leads me to my biggest problem, the testing. I test myself to gay and transsexual porn regularly and i feel like I’m starting to lose myself. —You should stop this destructive and unnecessary behavior. >>>When watching gay porn there is some slight arousal, but nothing much. But when it comes to transsexual porn there is way more arousal and this scares me. —Wouldn’t it be reassuring since the transexual is presumably more female to you than the male? Regardless, what gets a person off in porno-land (which is not reality), provides zero evidence of what that person really wants in life. You need to stop doing the testing compulsion. >>>I honestly don’t feel as if I am gay, I’ve loved girls since I was a kid, and before this all I could think about was women, and how I wanted to be the perfect man for them. I definitely believe I have a porn problem, and I am working on that now before I try any ERP therapy.. ——Good. >>>>My biggest question is just because I was aroused by porn that I feel like does not match my true orientation now mean that I am gay/bisexual?… I don’t like gay sex nor do I wanted to have it, but I obsess over this so much that everything is a blur. It’s like I don’t believe myself anymore. Thanks for taking the time to read this. —It’s not for me to say what you are. All I can offer is my opinion, which is that any “evidence” you dig up from a compulsion, especially one involving porn, is worthless. If you are working on addressing the unhealthy aspects of your porn use and planning to get treatment for your OCD, then you are on the right track. Darren May 5, 2016 at 12:38 am - Reply Thanks for your reply as it has given me a lot of confidence. I think another big problem is the fact that I’ve always assumed that straight individuals would not be aroused by stimulus outside of their orientation and vise versa. Not only that, but it seems like between males (I could be wrong) if you do anything that is not masculine or “non straight” then you are automatically deemed as gay. Like commenting on another mans looks or using the word cute. So when I had that “non-straight” sensation/reaction to the pornography I felt like I could no longer be considered heterosexual. But, as you have stated that is all irrelevant. I’m going to try really hard to have confidence in my sexuality and refrain from testing myself mentally and through porn. Thanks again for your reply. You’ve honestly helped a lot. Jon Hershfield May 22, 2016 at 12:42 pm - Reply Glad I could help. This notion that there are “non-straight” behaviors and that if you acknowledge them in yourself, you are somehow less straight than you were before, is a socially constructed phenomenon that has no basis in science or reason. Sounds like you’re on the right track! Steve May 2, 2016 at 10:09 pm - Reply Great article Jon Hershfield May 4, 2016 at 9:52 pm - Reply Thanks! kay May 26, 2016 at 8:54 pm - Reply Can you recommended an HOCD specialist near eastern NC? I have found only one on the coast here, and need to await approval from my health insurance. I must admit to using these websites and forums as a compulsion to help feel not so alone and hopeless. I’m a married female with 2 beautiful children, my life to me is perfect! Except….. When these HOCD fears come and go. Is this a normal pattern? I have gone maybe over a year without them bothering me. But exactly a week ago today, something struck the cord- and here I am again. I over analyze so of course I try to find a reason to why they have come back. I just want to go back to my life a week ago. When I wasn’t bothered by these doubts. I doubt if I love my husband, after 10 yrs of marriage since I have been feeling as though our busy lives have strained our ” affection to each other. Which I think is pretty common with jobs, kids etc. I question why am I not checking out other guys? Answer- bc I’m married- but mean HOCD doesn’t let me believe that. What if I’m gay and don’t know it ? Ridiculous it is, but yet it causes sooooo much anxiety and fear in me. Have done therapy but not ERT. Could that be why it still comes back? Or does stress/ hormones trigger as well? All I want is my life with my husband and kids, I want this all to stop and just leave me alone!!!! Any advice appreciated! Jon Hershfield May 27, 2016 at 2:04 pm - Reply >>>>Can you recommended an HOCD specialist near eastern NC? I have found only one on the coast here, and need to await approval from my health insurance. —The only names that come to mind in NC are Jonathan Abramowitz and Reid Wilson, which are both in the Chapel Hill area. They may do teletherapy in NC or they may know someone on the coast that they would recommend. You can also look here: iocdf.org/find-help/ >>>I must admit to using these websites and forums as a compulsion to help feel not so alone and hopeless. I’m a married female with 2 beautiful children, my life to me is perfect! Except….. When these HOCD fears come and go. Is this a normal pattern? I have gone maybe over a year without them bothering me. But exactly a week ago today, something struck the cord- and here I am again. I over analyze so of course I try to find a reason to why they have come back. I just want to go back to my life a week ago. When I wasn’t bothered by these doubts. —-It is normal for OCD to wax and wane and also to be exacerbated by stress and transitions (new jobs, moving, etc). >>>I doubt if I love my husband, after 10 yrs of marriage since I have been feeling as though our busy lives have strained our ” affection to each other. —Relationship substantiation obsessions and HOCD often go hand in hand. >>>Which I think is pretty common with jobs, kids etc. I question why am I not checking out other guys? Answer- bc I’m married- but mean HOCD doesn’t let me believe that. —Maybe you are checking out other guys but not allowing yourself to notice it because you keep compulsively analyzing whether you are checking out guys. >>>What if I’m gay and don’t know it ? Ridiculous it is, but yet it causes sooooo much anxiety and fear in me. Have done therapy but not ERT. Could that be why it still comes back? —Yes. >>>>Or does stress/ hormones trigger as well? —-Yes. >>>All I want is my life with my husband and kids, I want this all to stop and just leave me alone!!!! Any advice appreciated! —My recommendation is to start doing ERP with an OCD specialist if you can. And instead of looking at these doubtful thoughts as contaminants interfering in your happy family life, try to view them as just additional details (thoughts, feelings, etc) that you can make space for without getting certainty about them. Stefanny June 10, 2016 at 11:41 pm - Reply Hey Doctor, so I was having most of the HOCD symptoms since last year till the begin of this year (more or less) but now they aren’t as strong as they used to, I kinda don’t have symptoms anymore even though I get triggered most days is just not the same way. Should I still go see a doctor? Should I go to the doctor now that I’m calm or I have gone before when the symptoms were strong? I still am anxious and still fear it but now is kinda more generalised… I don’t know how to explain. Should I treat depression first? I feel like I’m kinda indifferent to these fear now, I’m tired. Jon Hershfield June 14, 2016 at 7:15 pm - Reply Sorry, but these are not easy questions to answer via blog comment. You sound like you might be experiencing some depression, which can coincide with a reduction in anxiety without you having really made any progress in the OCD, which may be what’s making you depressed. So yes, I would still seek professional help. ReallyAfraid June 27, 2016 at 12:50 am - Reply Hi Dr.Jon ,I’ve suffered from Hocd for almost 7 months.All this months I tried many many methods to overcome this.I think this is the 4 th comment that I send to you and I tried to do exactly what you told me to do and I can say that it works and I really thank you for that.It least about 5 months for me to really understand how is hocd working.Almost a month ago I started to don’t care anymore about it and accept whatever it is telling me without analyzing and checking anything.This last month I almost defended it ,I was spending only a few minutes thinking about hocd staff (I would normally spend my whole day thinking bout’ it).And of course I fell in love for a girl and I started to talk to her.I finally started to live me life again.So ,I talked with this girl ,I really really liked her but after a week we had a boring dialog and of course my attraction started to get lower a bit.This was a major spike…” What if this is because im gay” “what if im not straight anymore” and all that staff….And this is my actual problem…How should I deal with this spike? I want to start a relationship with that girl. Jon Hershfield June 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm - Reply First, congratulations on standing up to your OCD and I am glad to hear that you are seeing results. My recommendation is you continue to do so and double-down on your commitment to do what you want without consulting the OCD. If the OCD tells you that unwanted feelings about the girl mean you’re gay, then so be it. If you want to be with the girl, be with her and have unwanted thoughts (like the rest of us). Darren August 9, 2016 at 7:23 pm - Reply Okay so I’ve been trying hard to have confidence the past 3 months and I’m only now starting to see slight inprovments. I know for a fact that I don’t like men sexually or romantically, but I can’t seem to get over the intrusive thoughts. To make matters worse every time I talk to another male customer at my job I feel like my face gets really fuzzy. I don’t know if I’m blushing or what, but it isn’t like “I like you kind of blush”. It’s more of a good feeling because I like to help people if that makes any sense. I enjoy helping others and I feel like that’s where that feeling comes from. I sometimes get it with girls, but I always get it with the male customers. Its more like comradery I guess, but I freaks me out and it’s getting annoying. I remember always getting this feeling in highschool when I would make friends with the other guys or on the football field when supporting each other, or even just giving each other high fives and stuff. I’m really trying not to let things like this bother me because even as I type this out is sounds ridiculous. I don’t know what’s wrong with me I know I love women, but every time there’s a handsome guy around I can’t help but get triggered. Any extra advice ? Jon Hershfield August 11, 2016 at 2:12 pm - Reply >>>>>Okay so I’ve been trying hard to have confidence the past 3 months and I’m only now starting to see slight inprovments. I know for a fact that I don’t like men sexually or romantically, but I can’t seem to get over the intrusive thoughts. —I’m not sure what you call a fact is the same thing I call a fact. You are confident in your heterosexuality. Good. This does not mean we are certain. We don;t need certainty when we have confidence. >>>To make matters worse every time I talk to another male customer at my job I feel like my face gets really fuzzy. I don’t know if I’m blushing or what, but it isn’t like “I like you kind of blush”. It’s more of a good feeling because I like to help people if that makes any sense. I enjoy helping others and I feel like that’s where that feeling comes from. I sometimes get it with girls, but I always get it with the male customers. Its more like comradery I guess, but I freaks me out and it’s getting annoying. I remember always getting this feeling in highschool when I would make friends with the other guys or on the football field when supporting each other, or even just giving each other high fives and stuff. —It seems you are making a choice to read into a physical sensation in your face instead of simply accepting that you have physical sensation in your face. Your efforts to explain it here may be best understood as another certainty-seeking compulsion. >>>>I’m really trying not to let things like this bother me because even as I type this out is sounds ridiculous. I don’t know what’s wrong with me I know I love women, but every time there’s a handsome guy around I can’t help but get triggered. Any extra advice ? —You have to let things bother you if they bother you. But you don’t have to devote this much attention to the feeling of being bothered. It’s just one of many feelings that come and go as they please. My recommendation is to open up and allow the sensations in your face to be a part of the present moment and then choose not to put any effort into explaining to yourself why the sensation happened in any given situation. Jesse August 19, 2016 at 8:53 pm - Reply Hi dr. Jon ,is my 9th month of hocd and I’ve almost beat it,I accepted everything,I stoped doing compolsions like checking and reassuring myself and I tried to live my normal life again wich really worked for me beacuse the obsession is gone but i still have spikes like the next one that I’d like to ask you about beacuse there’s nothing on internet about it.I did’t experience this until a few days ago,I started to blush in front of good looking guys or even to friends wich didn’t happen to me in all this 9 months of hocd .I have to say that I always had this problem but in front of girls that I like and different sittuations (I think I have social anxiety too ,and I had it since I know myself but only now I discovered what is and I think that interferences with hocd).And is not only in front of guys,I started to blush even in front of friends when they joke (not about gay things) or other normal social contacts.Do you think that it is a symphtom of Hocd ?I’d really like to know your opinion about that.I always liked girls and I never considered myself different until 9 months ago when a thought pop up in my head and since the it stucked in my head…Now i’m quiet fine ,i was really bad,hopeless and disperate with all the symphtoms of hocd but those blushed really makes me sick.Thanks Jon Hershfield August 29, 2016 at 9:32 pm - Reply Blushing is a common physical response to anxiety and since you know you have social anxiety, then it would make the most sense to attribute this physical response to that and view it as a normal physical experience in your face that doesn’t need to be treated as a threat and doesn’t need any additional narratives. You could engage in social interactions, allow yourself to blush, and keep engaging in social interactions while blushing as ERP. Matt September 17, 2016 at 9:47 pm - Reply I was outed as bisexual at age 8 on the playground so I have always viewed gay and straight people as the “other” because many gay people hate bisexuals and I am 35 etc. I find that the sexual orientation OCD started with that bisexual men don’t exist article because my behavior got me labeled that as a kid. I personally took homophobia on violently in self defense when I was beat up and the goth community and my flagrant bisexuality wasn’t the issue. I am dating a bi woman now and I get panicked if I am approached for a date by hetero or gay people because I like the ambiguous, cocky, don’t care 1990’s bisexual culture as I had that experience. So it scares me that because they opened their minds last year and expect me to get over it that people think I am gay or straight and I am both so to call me one or the other is reductive. I am hetero OCDing it now. Oddly enough, we laugh at the people calling us fakes and liars and mock the gay and straight drama when I date a bi woman. I hear they are bad moms and she hears that I am gay and spread AIDS etc. It’s odd because, I have never dated them and don’t get into their drama. I hate it because I was a vile, slur slinging homophobe for a month or two after that article was being held as gold when it was a poor study with an agenda. And 19 year olds that were “bi” when I was 19 have 80% gone gay or straight so I don’t trust it. I dumped an ex girlfriend for trying to initiate a group thing with a bi girl and curious hetero guy. I never used to even care about this either. My doctor treats my bipolar and ADHD and she doesn’t see enough OCD symptoms to diagnose it and thinks the bisexuality obsessions and compulsions are just liberation. But I will panic now and fear that I will be seen as gay or straight and my girlfriend will dump me (or boyfriend in the future and with 2 bi men, it’s the same too). Sexual stimuli isn’t my issue because I was in 3 and 4 person bisexual relationships when I was 15 and very obnoxious about it. Jon Hershfield September 22, 2016 at 6:42 pm - Reply Hi and thanks for sharing your perspective. I’m not clear if you have a question I can answer. It seems that you have a fear of being mislabelled and that this may stem from some traumatic experiences you had in your youth. If you were to treat this fear as an obsession, then exposure therapy would be aimed towards efforts to feel uncertain about how you might get labelled by people. michael September 25, 2016 at 9:58 am - Reply personally, I’ve derived great benefit from mindfulness, but I have yet to find a therapist who believes I actually have HOCD instead of some other issue. Their reasoning is that I don’t present any other types of OCD symptoms outside of “HOCD”. Jon Hershfield September 29, 2016 at 12:21 pm - Reply Therapists who do not specialize in OCD are more likely to make the assumption that OCD must involve either a wide spectrum of obsessions or hand washing. Stephanie September 26, 2016 at 7:52 pm - Reply Hey doctor, how are you? So… I am struggling with my sexuality for more than 2 years now and reading about hocd it seems like it could be it but I haven’t been diagnosed yet because of fears and doubts and others things. It’s confusing because my mind won’t stop obssesing of things that I see or feel or that I think etc but at the same time I kinda have this sensation that I don’t need help. I feel calm??, I guess, not happy or better, maybe used to all that going on inside my head that the thought of not be like this anymore scares me a little bit. It weird to imagine myself not so anxious all the time, it seems dangerous to imagine that. But as I said, I’m struggling with my sexuality and I have already tried to remember and analyze everything that I have done to this day to try to understand myself, and what causes me more anxiety and doubts are my “porn past”… I stared watching porn very young and after I grow up a little bit it started to not excited me anymore. I only watched straight porn, really wasn’t interresed in lesbian/gay porn, so I started to watch something very taboo and I think I kinda get addicted to it, after I noticed how wrong and disgusting that was I tried to stop and for a while I couldn’t, that would stay stuck inside my head and only could stop thinking about that when I watched at least one. Now I’m happily free, and I could not feel better even thought I still obssess over it, like I regret watching that so much I woory about what kinda of person I’m for enjoying that for a while. The thing is.. I was on tumblr today and saw a post about girls who like girls and they used to watch porn with girls they thought was hot, I always considered myself to be straight because of my historic of sexual attraction, but after all that I tried to watch straight porn again but in a kinda of way the girls body was what would made me watch the video, like porn never was that exciting for me and neither the guy or the girl used to turned me on (I guess, I can’t remember for sure). but that taboo videos that I used to watch, did and the main person was always girls, like always. Wish made me wonder if that was why I liked that. I just thought that the cenario of the scene that used to attract me to watch, but I don’t know I still can’t myself to be atleast 10% sure of anything and it drives me mad. I feel like i’m forcing myself to be anxious about these things. I was very anxious when I started to write it, even opened a porn site to see if that was true, but I’m relaxed now and don’t even have a question. Sometimes I just have this urge to tell someone what’s going on with me but I never really do, only online sometimes, I do that quite a lot inside my head, I always see myself going to therapy and talking and talking but I never really go, I just have nothing or desire to fight for anymore… anyway, anything that you have to say to me would be very nice. Jon Hershfield September 30, 2016 at 7:31 pm - Reply Pornography is an unreliable and truly useless tool for identifying one’s orientation or even their predispositions. Most heterosexual women prefer lesbian pornography. Further, anything that is taboo is going to cause greater activation. Whether this activation manifests as disgust or arousal seems only related to what the person is telling themselves about the experience. It does not seem related to anything particularly scientific. My recommendation is to stop using pornography (or your mental review of pornography from the past) as tools for getting certainty. Instead, accept that, like everyone else, you have a sexual mind that doesn’t follow a straight line and spending all of your energy trying to get certain about it is not in your best interest. Given the amount of time you spend ruminating on the subject, it’s probably a good idea to seek professional help from an ocd specialist as well. Andre October 13, 2016 at 1:31 pm - Reply Dr. Hershfield, Thank you for your article, it has helped me before. Sadly I believe to have been suffering from this manifestation of OCD since I was 16 when my girlfriend asked me if I was gay. I got very angry when she asked and she said people at school said I was. I immediately asked myself why I got so upset, was I secretly gay? I began to pay close attention to the way I walked, talked, dressed to make sure I wasn’t giving off that vibe. 2 years later at college a friend told me he would swear I was gay if it wasn’t for my girlfriend. I began to get paranoid and would begin to avoid music I liked and other things I associated with homosexuality. I began to compulsively masterbate to lesbian porn, even straight porn had a guy in it and was too gay for me to watch. I began to check if I thought other guys were attractive, I would imagine kissing them and feel repulsed. I googled how to know if your gay/bi. I don’t remember how I got over it. My fears moved to health anxiety over the next several years, heart attack, HIV, cancer, etc. when I was 24 watching a tv show with my fiancé two gay males were on it and the thought popped back in my head, what if I’m gay? Again with the questioning and checking. It hit full speed the next year before I got married. I completely collapsed, I lost 30 lbs, couldn’t eat couldn’t sleep reviewed every relationship I was ever in and wondered if my whole life has been a lie. Every interaction with a male there was a thought of me kissing him and something in my mind would say, “he’s hot”. It was relentless. It was then I discovered OCD and pure-o and felt this overwhelming relief that I wasn’t crazy. I practiced some mindfulness and attempted self erp during this time, my therapist did not understand my worries. I eventually came to the whatever type attitude. It helped but the thoughts would still come from time to time. I am now 28 and back in the hole with this obsession. Now it has become the what if I want to be gay and that’s why it keeps coming back!? What if I don’t love my wife? What if I’m not truly happy and that’s why this comes back and that’s why this theme has persisted for so long. My therapist told me it was uncommon to see this obsession persevere for so many years. I have gone to more extreme compulsions having to imagine myself in homosexual situations and test if I would like them. I try to accept the thoughts and sadly feel that this will ultimately become my reality and that I am a liar and not who I thought/hoped I was. I am devastated that I will never overcome this and terrified that beating this means becoming gay. I fear never to be able to stop thinking these things and live happily. Sadly many doctors I see do not believe I suffer from ocd and I have lost hope. Jon Hershfield October 21, 2016 at 1:51 pm - Reply Sounds like you’ve been through a lot. I don;t know what your therapist is talking about. I’ve seen several clients stuck with obsessions like these for decades because they never got proper treatment. You describe doing some significant compulsions which are making you worse. Testing yourself in imagined scenarios pretty much locks you in deeper to the obsession. If you want to stop being a slave to your “what if” mind, you need to be doing cognitive behavioral therapy and ERP, preferably with an ocd specialist if you can access one. Otherwise use a self-help book. You say you fear never being able to stop thinking these things and live happily. The first thing you need to understand is that the presence or absence of any particular thought has nothing to do with happiness. Darren October 22, 2016 at 4:59 pm - Reply First I wanted to say thanks again for all your help. I made it a goal of mine to not comment on your articles until I made real progress which I feel like I finally have. I feel ten times better and you were definitely apart of that. I still have intrusive thoughts about being gay of course, but it’s been so much easier to ignore it and move on with my day. I have even been able to talk to men and have whatever sensation in my face or where ever happen and still have confidence in my orientation. Plus I feel like my old self at times because I find myself having fantasies about women/developing crushes on women at work/school. This leads me to my last obstacle which is the porn. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t addicted. I no longer watch porn to test myself, but to fulfill fantasies about women. Which is good I guess, but the problem is whenever I watch straight pornogrophy I can’t help but have intrusive thoughts, feelings, and sensations about the male in the video and in the moment I feels so real. I know that I have conditioned myself to this response due to me obsessing/testing myself for the past year. Plus I’ve watched porn since I was 12 (I’m 19 now) and during all my years of watching porn I’ve never had any type of intrusive thoughts about a naked man. Like I’ve said before this all started a couple months after I turned 18 when my friend called me Gay after I seeked reassurance from him. So, my question is how should I go about “unconditioning” myself when it comes to porn and my thoughts/feelings/sensations in the real world? I know I should stay away from porn completely, but it bothers me when I go to watch porn for women and end up having weird thoughts about the guy. It makes me feel like I need to keep watching to prove myself, and to get back to the “old days” when I didnt have any though/sensation when it came to another male. thanks again for your help and patience with me. Jon Hershfield October 27, 2016 at 12:26 pm - Reply That’s great that are doing better! As far as porn goes, there may be a few things to consider. First, you use the term “addicted” but then go on to describe your use as an otherwise healthy way to explore and express your fantasies, so it might be worth approaching the word “addiction” with some skepticism. That being said, there may be UNhealthy attachments to pornography that are worth addressing, particularly if it is causing financial, time consumption, or relationship problems. In terms of your intrusive thoughts about men in porn, it is not advisable to ever try to “get back to the old days” on anything. The old days were not as great as you think. New days are days where you are more open and accepting of what your mind may offer and this may sometimes include random or “weird” thoughts. Without compulsively testing, I would encourage you to attempt to allow yourself to enjoy whatever you enjoy and allow for whatever other thoughts might come along for the ride. For example, most heterosexual men would acknowledge a preference in heterosexual porn for a good looking male performer, someone they might aspire to be or whose image is not off-putting. Can you allow yourself to accept positive thoughts about male performers in these scenes without making it a deep analysis of your orientation? Instead of “unconditioning” away from a specific thought, try reconditioning toward greater mindfulness. Darren October 27, 2016 at 3:05 pm - Reply Thanks for your reply. The reason I said i was addicted is because I have a habit of watching porn daily, and find it very difficult to stop. It will definitely be a challenge to accept thoughts about men all while trying to enjoy my fantises about women, but I will attempt to do so in the future. Although I think for now I am going to stop watching porn, because it always seems to make things worse. However I am curious, why would not getting back to the “old days” when none of this was a problem not be my goal? Also, what bothers me the most about porn is the fact that I can’t help but have intrusive thoughts about me doing what it is that the women are doing to the men. Like I said previously I watch porn to fulfill my fantasies about women, but when watching porn I have intrusive feelings and sensations from the womans perspective. Then the fear and doubt overwhelm me and I began asking questions like “why does this feel so real” “are you sure you wouldn’t want to do this” and i have weird feelings like I do what to do these things, when I know/have confidence that I don’t want to do them. Would my approach to this problem be the same as well? Which is like you said to enjoy what I enjoy and accept the intrusive thoughts about me doing things to men? I know it’s impossible to understand who I am as a person over a blog comment, but I am confident that I want women romantically and sexually and not men. Jon Hershfield October 29, 2016 at 1:35 pm - Reply >>>>Thanks for your reply. The reason I said i was addicted is because I have a habit of watching porn daily, and find it very difficult to stop. —I see. Well, a relationship with any person, thing, or activity can be healthy (adds value to your life) or unhealthy (mostly detracts from your life). We have to make difficult choices sometimes to take care of our health. >>>> It will definitely be a challenge to accept thoughts about men all while trying to enjoy my fantises about women, but I will attempt to do so in the future. Although I think for now I am going to stop watching porn, because it always seems to make things worse. —It sounds like at the very least it would be useful to take a hiatus from porn for now. If you can;t enjoy it without doing compulsions, then better to step away and come back to it later when you can truly enjoy it freely. >>>>However I am curious, why would not getting back to the “old days” when none of this was a problem not be my goal? —Because the “old days” have no memory or insights related to the experiences you have had since this started. If the plan is to return to a place where you have not been changed (positively or otherwise) buy your experiences, then the plan is to return to a fictional place. This may be semantics, but my point is that you should look forward to not being burdened by your OCD, but that new version of you will still include an awareness that this obsession was a problem in your life that you fought to overcome. >>>>Also, what bothers me the most about porn is the fact that I can’t help but have intrusive thoughts about me doing what it is that the women are doing to the men. Like I said previously I watch porn to fulfill my fantasies about women, but when watching porn I have intrusive feelings and sensations from the womans perspective. —They are intrusive because you treat them as intruders instead of just viewing them as normal passing thoughts you don’t need to defend yourself from. >>>>Then the fear and doubt overwhelm me and I began asking questions like “why does this feel so real” “are you sure you wouldn’t want to do this” and i have weird feelings like I do what to do these things, when I know/have confidence that I don’t want to do them. —These are common OCD testing questions. Attempts to answer them are common compulsions. >>>>Would my approach to this problem be the same as well? Which is like you said to enjoy what I enjoy and accept the intrusive thoughts about me doing things to men? I know it’s impossible to understand who I am as a person over a blog comment, but I am confident that I want women romantically and sexually and not men. —I don’t know you of course, but you sound like most men I encounter with this obsession. If you want the thoughts to stop intruding, you have to stop treating them as intruders and start allowing them to come and go as they please, as you do most thoughts. SQ November 3, 2016 at 7:01 am - Reply Hi Jon, I’ve written a few times in the past regarding HOCD. Over the years it has improved greatly and I’ve gotten used to dismissing my thoughts and feelings and just telling myself “who cares?” this has helped alot and I’ve been better about letting things go. Over the past few months I have had some boy issues and things didn’t work out how I wanted them to with someone and this caused me to realize how much I do care about the opposite sex and how much I would want a relationship with the opposite sex. But lately (maybe because I’m getting over someone) I’ve been thinking more about some thoughts and feelings I do have that I dismiss as HOCD and I worry that maybe why I haven’t had alot of relationships with guys is because of some of these thoughts and feelings. I’ve come to the conclusion over the years that yes I do have arousal towards girls and I do take notice when a girl is pretty (I think this is sometimes just in comparison with myself) . But I can’t see myself really being with a girl and having a life and relationship with a girl like I would with a guy at all. But what concerns me is that I feel like the crushes/guys I like is few and far between and I notice I do have more arousal towards girls than guys. But when I do feel an arousal feeling towards girls I try to let myself think about it further (to see if I really want to be with a girl), but I just can’t its like I only feel it in a moment and move on. It gives me a gross/tense/disgusting feeling to go any further thinking about whereas when I feel it towards a guy I don’t mind thinking about it at all. But I do believe those arousal feelings are real when I do feel them. My question is how can I want to be with a guy when I still have some feelings like this towards girls and even sometimes more often than what I feel for a guy? How can I still be straight when those two feelings occupy the same space? I’ve had a crush on a guy and I’ve still felt these feelings? Then I wonder am I just in denial? Am I just forcing myself to like a guy? But I don’t think I’am in denial because I just don’t want to be with a girl like that, I just can’t see it and I’ve been really upset over things not working out with a guy. But sometimes I just wonder if I should push myself and try to imagine a life with girls since I feel those feelings maybe I’ve just been stifling them for so long and dismissing them for HOCD when maybe its something I need to explore; but when I do it just makes me miserable and I don’t like it! I know its just a feeling shouldn’t matter in the big picture and its not a threat to how I want to live my life, but I just wonder why I feel it in the first place? When I do feel arousal for guys I don’t feel it immediately (usually; sometimes I do), but it has to build up more and the more I get to know him the more I like him and I feel it. That even concerns me like “why isn’t it instantaneous?” like some of the feelings I feel towards a girl, or is that normal? Thanks for reading this long message and thanks so much for your time! Jon Hershfield November 28, 2016 at 2:20 pm - Reply >>>>I’ve come to the conclusion over the years that yes I do have arousal towards girls and I do take notice when a girl is pretty (I think this is sometimes just in comparison with myself) . But I can’t see myself really being with a girl and having a life and relationship with a girl like I would with a guy at all. —There was an episode of the sitcom “New Girl” recently where one of the male characters claimed not to be able to tell that a male model was good looking. In the end he concluded that he was capable of telling a guy was attractive by asking himself if he wouldn’t mind waking up and looking like that guy. I think the moral of the story is not to take yourself too seriously. >>>>But what concerns me is that I feel like the crushes/guys I like is few and far between and I notice I do have more arousal towards girls than guys. But when I do feel an arousal feeling towards girls I try to let myself think about it further (to see if I really want to be with a girl), but I just can’t its like I only feel it in a moment and move on. It gives me a gross/tense/disgusting feeling to go any further thinking about whereas when I feel it towards a guy I don’t mind thinking about it at all. But I do believe those arousal feelings are real when I do feel them. —-It sounds like you are still engaging in a fair amount of compulsive testing, and this interferes in your ability to think clearly about this issue. >>>>My question is how can I want to be with a guy when I still have some feelings like this towards girls and even sometimes more often than what I feel for a guy? How can I still be straight when those two feelings occupy the same space? —-A better question is why you think two feelings can’t occupy the same space. I love my children. I also feel angry at them a lot (especially around bed time). Should I read into this? >>>>>I’ve had a crush on a guy and I’ve still felt these feelings? Then I wonder am I just in denial? Am I just forcing myself to like a guy? But I don’t think I’am in denial because I just don’t want to be with a girl like that, I just can’t see it and I’ve been really upset over things not working out with a guy. But sometimes I just wonder if I should push myself and try to imagine a life with girls since I feel those feelings maybe I’ve just been stifling them for so long and dismissing them for HOCD when maybe its something I need to explore; but when I do it just makes me miserable and I don’t like it! —-I think your time is better spent pursuing relationships with whomever seems to be treating you well and making you happy. To do this, you will have to open up and accept uncertainty that you may be choosing “wrong” somehow and stop compulsively trying to prove otherwise. >>>>I know its just a feeling shouldn’t matter in the big picture and its not a threat to how I want to live my life, but I just wonder why I feel it in the first place? When I do feel arousal for guys I don’t feel it immediately (usually; sometimes I do), but it has to build up more and the more I get to know him the more I like him and I feel it. That even concerns me like “why isn’t it instantaneous?” like some of the feelings I feel towards a girl, or is that normal? —You are overanalyzing your reactions, which produces all kinds of unhelpful results for you. Instead of trying to figure out why you feel what you feel, work on accepting whatever you feel in each moment. But, for what it’s worth, people generally find taboo thoughts more immediately stimulating than other thoughts, so reading into this is pointless. Dan November 3, 2016 at 7:21 pm - Reply Hi Doctor. I’m sorry to bother you again, but I’ve been stucked for a while whit the same thought, and I don’t know how to get over it. While doing one of my testing ‘exercises’, I decided to think about gay anal sex in order to proof myself I wouldn’t like it and that it doesn’t arouse me. But somehow, after a lot of rumination, I started to think about what my penis would feel if it was stimulated during sex. And now I can’t stop testing about it because if I focus on the sexual stimulation on my penis, I might find it… well, sexually stimulating. But when I start to think that it is a man, and imagine a man’s body or penis, I lost any kind of erection I could have. And, in some way, I can understand that sexual stimulation feels good. But if in my testings, when I focus on the sensation on my penis, it feels a little like arousal, wouldn’t that mean that real life-gay sex would also feel ‘good’ if I ignore that there is a man and just let myself ‘feel’ the stimulation? And if that is true, what is stopping me from having gay sex? I know that I don’t want some man to touch me, and I don’t see myself having sex with one (well, I think and hope so). But I really don’t like the idea that, in some way, I can find gay sex ‘stimulating’. What should I do? How can I get over this thought? Thank you very much Jon Hershfield November 28, 2016 at 2:50 pm - Reply Stop doing testing compulsions. Nothing stops anyone from anything, including sexual behaviors, other than they just don’t choose to do it. Nothing is stopping me from jumping out my office window. I can just open it. I choose to attend to other things instead and accept the possibility that I may at any point change my mind and jump to my death. The only way to get anywhere with your OCD is to stop the testing compulsions first. SQ December 6, 2016 at 6:49 am - Reply Thank you Jon I appreciate your insight on everything I wrote! Michael December 26, 2016 at 7:01 am - Reply Hello Dr. Hershfield, Happy holidays to you doctor, hope you’ve enjoyed them. Im a 19 year old male college student and i have a huge problem with my sexual orientation and it is ruining my life. For the past three years, I’ve been struggling with what I think is hocd. I have a history of same sex experimenation when I was a little kid. I think it was caused by the fact that an older boy sexually abused me when I was around 4 and I think it caused me to act it out on others. Regardless, I have always had attractions to girls but have had bad dating experiences. But I still love women, they’re the only ones I think of when I think of love or dating. The issue is that gay porn heavily arouses me and I sometimes masturbate to it in a horrible cycle. I’ll go for about a month only watching straight porn and getting off to women. Then I’ll get a thought about gay porn or an ‘urge’ to watch it, then I watch gay porn and if I get aroused, then I masturbate. But then I proceed to masturbate to it 3 times a day for a week, then I’ll feel bad and stop and promise never to do it again, only to fail afterwards. I’m actively seeking girls, but I think my hocd is interfering with my mental health. I always think that people think I’m gay. Worst of all, I’m always finding myself staring at men’s butts sometimes and unable to avoid it, it annoys me. I tell myself to look at them sometimes to achieve certainty that I’m not attracted to them but it never works. Sometimes I’ve noticed pseople seeing me do this, maybe this is why some people think I might be gay? Throughout my life, some people have told me that they thought I was gay and I often think that people think I’m gay too, even if they don’t tell me so. It confuses me, I don’t really act gay according to my estimation. This has also heavily contributed to my anxiety and sadness. I am so sad right now, so alone and depressed. I don’t think that I’m gay, but at least ten people throughout my life have asked me if I’m gay and it makes me wonder. I try to not appear gay now. Whenever people talk about homosexuality around me I get nervous and feel that they’re talking about me. I don’t like calling things gay and feel uncomfortable saying crude things about girls sometimes What do I do? Where do I go from here? I need help but cannot currently afford or get treatment. Is this actually hocd? Or maybe I’m just gay and in denial, after all, some people have thought that I’m gay. This has destroyed me for years and I want to end it, it has caused me much pain and doubt Thank you so much. Jon Hershfield January 7, 2017 at 8:56 pm - Reply It doesn’t sound to me like you are in denial, but that the situation is more complex than just OCD. Being heterosexual and also being attracted to same sex fantasies is not an uncommon experience, but you appear to have a somewhat addictive or unhealthy relationship to pornography (gay or otherwise). Rather than focusing on what other people think of you, my first suggestion would be to examine your relationship to pornography and see what changes could be made to reduce its role in your attention to sex and sexuality. In terms of what OCD there is, you need to stop engaging in efforts to get certain, including with your staring rituals. OCD or not, you should pursue relationships with people you are interested in and not get too caught up in labels or the unknowable thoughts of others. Shaun December 30, 2016 at 12:00 am - Reply Hi Jon I’ve had this problem for 3 years now and I’m ready to fight back! I’m messaging you regarding the whole loving your friend issue and just wondering if you could give me some tips for good exposure techniques! Thanks Jon Hershfield January 7, 2017 at 9:15 pm - Reply There are several excellent self-help workbooks for OCD with tips for good ERP techniques. In short, your exposure should be to the idea that you might be into your friend somehow and might have to deal with the consequences of this being true one day. You can probably do this with imaginal scripts, watching movies about people who fall for their friends, and being loving and affectionate with your friends. S February 28, 2017 at 4:10 pm - Reply Hi Jon My intrusive thoughts revolves around one of my friends (fear of romance) and recently she stopped talking to me but I’m still having the thoughts. Should I continue the exposure around the issue. Jon Hershfield March 5, 2017 at 8:44 pm - Reply I can’t give you specific treatment recommendations because I don’t know enough about you and am not your therapist. I can say that obsessive fear of inappropriate or unwanted attraction to friends is not unusual in OCD. If you are doing ERP to this fear, you might consider using exposure scripts describing what consequences you might have to cope with if your fears came true. Miguel March 11, 2017 at 2:13 pm - Reply Hey jon and just wanted to tell you this article is helping going through my hocd tremendously. Ok so I’ve had hocd for over a year now and I have to say that the anxiety is almost non existent now. But what’s been worrying is that my sex drive is close to 0 still. Before hocd the thought of a women would excite me sexually. Now I just don’t feel anything which is makes me worry. I just started cbt a few days ago accepting my thoughts before i would say ” gay people don’t go through this so I must not be gay”. Now I’m just shrugging it off but its hard with no anxiety! Also I developed pocd but its not as bad. Also I would like to say if pocd applies to cbt as well like accepting thoughts. It’s pretty scary but thank you so much. Jon Hershfield March 13, 2017 at 4:30 pm - Reply Happy to hear the articles have been helpful. Anxiety often causes issues with libido, regardless of the cause of the anxiety. Putting too much (or any) pressure on yourself to feel arousal basically gets in the way of experiencing arousal in the moment. Unless there is reason to believe a medical issue is causing your lack of arousal (in which case, consult a doctor), I would work on simply accepting the way you feel about things for now. The more mindful and present you are without judgment, the more likely you will find yourself available when feelings arise. The more you check and judge, the more you interfere in experiencing feelings organically. A regular mindful meditation practice may be helpful in this regard. Cole March 13, 2017 at 10:08 pm - Reply Can OCD make you believe things that aren’t true or am I just kidding myself? Ever since this has started I keep having this intrusive thoughts and feelings that I know I wouldn’t do or want to do at all. But every time I watch straight porn I have weird thoughts about the guy like I would actually do what is is that the chick is doing to him. So I tried watching gay porn and I thought that was gross. So I feel confident that I’m into girls, but when I try to watch the straight porn again I can’t shake the intrusive thoughts about the guy. Everything feels so real and it bothers the hell out of me. Jon Hershfield March 20, 2017 at 3:42 pm - Reply This is commonly reported by my HOCD clients. You need to stop trying to prove what you like and accept that even while doing something you like, you may have thoughts that don’t fit the mold. Instead of “shaking the intrusive thought”, it would be better to simply note that the thought happened. The more you try not to have thoughts, the more they intrude. dennis March 26, 2017 at 3:44 pm - Reply hey Jon I´ve been reading and searching around the web. I´ve actually read this before, but didnt notice the Leave a comment section and i can see, that you are replying to everyone, so i´m leaving comment in the hope, that you will answer me as well and perhaps guide me through a exposure and response programme of some sorts. do you use a general method or a specific one? if you are using specific methods for each person, would you mind if mention mine, so i can follow the instructions? i´ve been through therapy before and while it a bit. Even though i´ve tried the same exercises, i´m either failing at i and it ends up in a test or i´m scared that i am doing it wrong – as im not a professional. Right now i feel sad, im crying and i feel desperation and depression consistently – i feel anxiety. I feel scared and hopeless. í´ve just met a new girl and im in love, sometimes i can feel the feelings of love and attraction. I can feel lust, but the hocd and the search for the truth/answers in multiple situations, can completelyt take i away. I end up in a situation, where im contemplating suicide, as i get so goddamn depressed. The selfdoubt about sexual orientation, is removing my identity. I sometimes feel like i am a stranger to myself or dont know who i am anymore. The fact that i have these thoughts, is in itself enough to mindfuck me. I wouldnt be writing if i wasnt desperate or down. I´ve had this for 17 years, and im fed up. Jon Hershfield March 27, 2017 at 5:27 pm - Reply Hi Dennis, I’d be happy to answer a question or two about how to treat your obsession with sexual orientation. You will have to ask a specific question though. What you have written here is that you are in a loving relationship, that you have an obsessive fear of not being who you want to be, and that you respond to this fear with compulsive efforts to get certainty about the “truth” of your orientation. You also seem to be compulsively checking and analyzing your feelings for this girl. Having read my blogs on the subject, you understand that compulsions fuel the obsessions and that CBT is the way to treat OCD. So if you have a specific question not already addressed in the blogs, feel free to ask and I will do my best to respond. You mentioned being significantly distressed and having suicidal thoughts. If you are in any way at risk of harming yourself, please go to your nearest emergency room. Leave A Comment Comment... Name (required) Email (required) Website POST COMMENT Jon Hershfield, MFT hershfield-80x90Director of The OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater Baltimore and specialist in the treatment of OCD and related disorders. Learn more about Jon Hershfield Brenda Kijesky, LGMFT Licensed Graduate Marriage and Family Therapist, treating children and adults with OCD and related disorders. Learn more about Brenda Kijesky Molly Schiffer, LGPC Licensed Graduate Professional Counselor, treating children, adolescents, and adults with OCD and related disorders. Learn more about Molly Recent Articles IMG_9926   New Office and New Team Member: OCGB Welcomes Molly Schiffer, LGPC March 27th, 2017 Man solving problem thinking   How to Respond to Unwanted Thoughts July 23rd, 2016|34 Comments officebldg   Introducing Brenda Kijesky, LGMFT May 21st, 2016 Latest News April 7th at the 2017 Anxiety and Depression Association of America Conference in San Francisco, CA "Using Games to Improve ERP Compliance When Treating OCD" by Jon Hershfield and Shala Nicely July 7th at the International OCD Foundation's 24th Annual OCD Conference in San Francisco, CA "ERP Games for Living Joyfully with OCD" with Jon Hershfield and Shala Nicely July 8th at the International OCD Foundation's 24th Annual OCD Conference in San Francisco, CA "The Use of Technology in OCD Treatment" with Elizabeth McIngvale, Monnica Williams, Katrina Rufino, and Jon Hershfield July 9th at the International OCD Foundation's 24th Annual OCD Conference in San Francisco, CA "My OCD Says I’m a Bad Person: Tackling Moral Scrupulosity" with Jon Hershfield and Patrick McGrath THE LATEST FROM FACEBOOK The OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater BaltimoreThe OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater Baltimorewww.ocdbaltimore.com/ocgb-welcomes-molly/ New clinician at The OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater Baltimore and more! 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