On tianshan relationship and their fandom, i guess ?
hello there @nightfayre !! Im the 5asks anon lol (the one abt the last chapter of tianshan). I wanted to thank you for your answer and continue to rant in your askbox but i figured it was so long that mb it would crash ur box lmao, so I... kind of created a blog..... hm. well theres no bad reasons to create an account is there lol ?? (also is there no way to send a long ask ?? why is it so limited :(( )
So once again thank you for anwser, and what an answer ! You raised many points i didnt think about and that was very interesting. I knew i would be glad to hear your thoughts ! the rest under a read more coz i think its going to be looong lol
(( To do a sort of disclaimer : I despise fandom discourse and im more of the mentality “let ppl enjoy what they want as long as it dont hurt real life ppl”, and “dont like dont interact”. So everything im going to say is not an attack against anyone, but just a way of prolonging a manhwa that i like. Most of all, i want to emphasize that at the end of the day, its just a manhwa : it doesnt justify being mean or aggressive towards other real life ppl. If you find yourself raging while reading fandom wank, just stop reading, block, and go outside a little. My way of enjoying the manhwa is to be analytical, to criticize (positively and negatively) and to look at the material source as well as the fandom in itself ; if its (understandably lol) not your definition of fun, this post may not be for you !))
Ur totally right in saying that the hardest thing is separate morality, reality and fiction. I hope my asks didn't come across as a 'u shouldnt like tianshan bc its not morally good'. There is a lot of puritan push back on tumblr lately, and im totally against it. Everyone is free to like/ship what they want ; reading only ‘morally good’ literature wont prevent you to become a nasty person - i would argue itd be the exact opposite, as your spirit wont be trained to think critically or to evaluate a situation (and every situations is always grey) by your own means. Also, its important to separate fantasies/what you like to read and who you are/what you do. To be embarrassingly honest, and like many people, one of my sexual fantasy is rape ; but in my real life, im in a queer anarchist collective that actively fights against rape culture and defends rape victims. That is why i dont have a problem with SheLI/Mo shippers (or even HeCheng/SheLi shippers) even if its not my cup of tea, but i would have a problem if in real life (irl) ppl would say to irl Mo that irl SL is good for him (or if they wouldnt find it wrong that a irl 30yo Cheng is involved wt an irl 15yo Li). I digress.
But then again this confusion about fiction/reality/morality is at the core of the tianshan fandom -and many fandoms. I dont know about you, but i grossly see 3 types of ‘trends’ depending on how ppl interact with the source material :
1.The ones who think you cant like something while being critical of it. I love 19 days but I think there are flaws in it, beyond tianshan dynamic (like how OX handles the transition between funny and dramatic moments –I think its badly done). It doesn’t mean I personally hate OX and wish harm to their family oc. Worse than this, the ones who, because they dont like certain things in 19 days, feel free to harass OX on their social media. Here its a confusion between fiction and reality and a lack of critical thinking.
2. the ones that loves Tianshan because they think it fits the trope “Dark, handsome, tortured violent boy who is violent towards fragile, sweet, pure cute boy because he loves him” and the typically associated trope “the pure boy will change the violent boy by the pureness of his heart”. Aka the most common yaoi trope. Again, if it pleases people to see Tianshan like this, good for them and i hope they have a nice time reading 19 days. Lets face it, I love really bad yaoi and books. Its just not how i see tianshan at all, but to each their own. I just have a problem when these ppl insist that its an ok behavior to have in real life and say things like “possessiveness is a proof of love” uncritically (hint : it isnt). For me, its the difference between enjoying fast food (thats okay), and wanting to force everyone to eat fast food and to find it pleasurable (not okay).
3. the ones that think what you like in literature defines who you are, and so in order to be a “good person” you have to only like “morally good litterature” -there are the ones I personally find the more interesting bc they can ask good questions. But alas, in most cases its just puritanism badly disguised and currently they are in all fandoms. Lets not delve into the issue of this statement : what is ‘morally good’ ? who are in the authority to proclaim what is good ? how can you recognize what is ‘morally good’ if you dont see what is ‘morally not good’ ? is it literature’s responsibility to educate its audience ? do literature have to point out “watch out audience what just happened is not okay” as if we were brainless children ? whats more important : what you like reading or what you do irl ? .... Okay i totally delve into this lmao. Here its a confusion between fiction and morality and a rejection of critical thinking : we could say its like when the Catholics prohibited women from reading bc it would pervert them and think of the children).
Returning to the specifics of what we've been talking about : so in this last case, you (generic ‘you’) think that you are a good person ; so you have to read morally good literature. So in this case, fandom isnt just a harmless hobby, but a proof of how you are morally good, imagine the stakes ! But alas, you happen to like 19 days and most specifically tianshan. You said (@nightfayre ) that you judge Tianshan unhealthy as they are now, and i wholeheartedly agree with you, so im not going to discuss why since you already explained it so well. So, what happens when you like a morally not good ship, but you think liking morally dubious things makes you a bad person ? You bent over backwards to explain that, in fact, this ship is morally good, to protect your integrity. And thats why, in 19days fandom since the last chapter (and its the same thing with every chapter where flaws of HT are revealed!), there are many posts going around “hm, in fact, what He Tian did is good ! i know it can seems like hes a violent asshole who dont respect MGS because he punches him, threatens him, and dont listen to him, but hm.... in fact its because he’s nice...” and then they do mental gymnastics to justify what is, obviously, not morally justifiable. And i find its a pity because, my guy, my buddy, nobody is going to throw you tomatoes if you like a morally dubious character, and also bc nothin is morally good ! everybody does what they think is the best in ‘problematic situations’ ! and thats what make life interesting ! and so, 19 days interesting ! The flaws of HT (and MGS) are what drawn ppl to his character, bc it makes him real, its makes him contradictory, we can project ourselves in him, and we can see a complicated character with awesome latent potential. And yes, treating someone like a territory bc you care about them is a flaw lol. (on this subject : i saw ppl saying that its protectiveness and not possession : if you protect someone like you would protect a territory, then its not a healthy protection. you deal with a human whose agency you must respect, contrary to a territory).
MGS and HT are the product of what happen to them in their early childhood and then their adolescence. Like you said, they grow up in a violent, twisted world, where being emotionally distant is the norm. I would even say that they are expected to conform to the standards of (toxic) masculinity : channel all your emotions into anger, caring is being weak and feminine, prove your worth by your physical strength, be in control in all ur relationship, etc. I would say thats why Mo is so hostile towards HT : HT challenges his masculinity, by seducing him (everyone know that the biggest fear of macho men like HT and Mo is being considered gay -_-) and being stronger than him. Lets face it, Mo has kind of a homophobic issue, like all the boys. Between JY who tells HT its disgusting being told hes handsome by a man (at the beginning of the manhwa, i hope by now he had grown out of it), or Mo who tells HT he isnt happy that a guy is on his bed or who desperately wants to prove his heterosexuality by saying he likes all cute girls to his baldy friend... HT is more nuanced, but at the end, when he ‘seduces’ Mo, its always predatory. He doesnt let himself being vulnerable and he aggressively touches Mo even without his consent. For me, its a way of proving his domination, not his interest (and when i say that, i dont mean that HT is not genuinely interested in Mo -just that his actions dont translate this). ZZX is the only one who seems to have a healthy relationship with his masculinity lol, but then hes the healthy one in all aspects (thats why i dont like his character and am not invested in zhanyi, even if irl i would love to be his friend).
With all that being said, oc HT wont know how to adequately express genuine concern and interest in Mo ! This sort of social interactions is not something you just know, its smth you learn. And in HT and Mo’s cases, nobody was there to teach them -we could even say that ppl in their life made them unlearn caring behaviors. So HT does what he does best : he fights and forces, and is surprised when Mo thinks (obviously) HT is evil. And also, like you said, Mo will never be (at least how he is now) a driving force in their relationships bc he will always run away from bonding with ppl. So here we are, HT being the only driving force in their relationship, the same HT who only knows violence. No wonder that their relationship is like this...
As it is, i feel like tianshan is kind of in an impasse right now. One or the other is going to have to evolve if we want to see their relationships changing. Either HT learns how to care without being violent (seems complicated if Mo doesnt challenges him, bc HT isnt going to realize this without feedback since its how he has always functioned), or, more likely, Mo is going to be honest with him and tell him that his behavior is hurting him. Though more probable, I dont see it happening anytime soon : for one, Mo isnt capable of seeing when he is hurting emotionally and what is hurting him ; and also, bc Mo doesnt know any other language than violence, not unlike HT. I think its smth most of the fandom ignore, how violence is smth that HT and MGS both have in common, and how if HT wasnt violent, MGS certainly wouldnt consider him at all.
Anw im excited to see where OX is going with all this ! Like you said, the forced kiss was pivotal to their relationship, so im kind of hoping it would be the same here ! I just hope they wont... do like usual and just put a funny chapter and ignore this latest development.....
OMG i wrote soo much and there is so much i still want to say.... i think im going to do a second post... sorry about the spam lmao
( @nightfayre : i dont know how this site works yet, is @ you alright ? will it show you my post in your notif or should i send an ask ? bc i want you to see my answer, but i dont want you to feel pressurized to respond or interact or anything !! above all dont feel pressurized, i was sad last night when you wrote ‘im sorry to not answer more quicly’ bc you should answer at your own rhythm or not answer ! your blog is a hobby, not an obligation, so dont feel bad to not do more when yo already do much !! )
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gosh, thank you! that is so sweet??? I hope you (and any other of my followers who celebrate!) have/had a very happy Eid!💖 💕
on another note, I’ve finally gotten around to cleaning out my askbox! under the cut is almost every ask I’ve gotten that i haven’t answered in the past.... I’m not sure. it’s been a WHILE though.
as a warning, there’s all sorts of stuff, and it’s all untagged! also also, if you sent one of these asks and want me to remove it, just let me know!
yes!! @fuckaspunk IS super sweet and talented and i AM very lucky to have them! and I’ve heard from reliable sources that the feeling is mutual~~💕
i’m glad my comics make you feel less alone; that’s a rough situation you’re in. i really hope you find yourself in a better environment soon!
thank you!!!💕
thank you for understanding! and yes, aidan is a huge help to me??? even when they’re not answering asks, they’re always supporting me in some way, whether that’s making sure I’ve eaten enough, or talking me through my anxiety, or all the other ways they’re there for me every single day💕💕
ok, my tips are!!:
draw as much as possible! even if it’s just lines and shapes with no meaning, you’re still developing your hand/eye skills
BUT: dont draw if you’re not feeling it! if you’re feeling fried, it’s better to take a break. go on a walk to somewhere scenic, read your favorite book, listen to some new music, hang out with friends, or just take a nap! rest up and find some inspiration! you can come back to your sketchbook when you feel energized again
draw stuff that you like! you’ll improve way faster if you’re passionate about what you’re doing
look at art you like with a critical eye. try to examine the different components and figure out what you think works or doesn’t work. try incorporation those components into your own work
read a lot of tutorials and other resources, but take what they say with a grain of salt
ultimately, remember that the only real rule to drawing is that doing it should make you happy
good luck!! i do my best not to pick, but it’s a real struggle; i have lots of scars from it too. ;v; im cheering for you!!!
ALWAYS!!!! if you do, please show me!! my notifications get real busy, but anyone is welcome to IM me any time!
thank you! i actually get very worried about my style; i tend to admire artists with complex linework and delicate shading, so i often feel my style is far to simple! so thank you!!
that is really high praise????? gosh??!?!?!? best of luck with the next three years; i hope you grow to be someone you like even better than me!
thank you!!
peanut time is the best!! i haven’t gotten to do a proper one in a while though ;-; i’ve mostly been feeding the crows on my way back home from night shifts, when i give them the reject eggs from the continental breakfast.
wow, neat!! chickens are so wonderful; i cont wait until i can have some of my own :>
dont be nervous! i know i can be hard to get ahold of over the internet (bc i get overwhelmed easily) and hard to talk with irl (bc i get so nervous and interacting w ppl doesn’t come naturally to me AT ALL) but honestly i?? love making new friends??!
thank you!!? im thankful every day that someone as radient as aidan is in my life for the long haul
thank you!!!!!!!💕
i completely feel that? its ok to hit rough patches! just do your best!!
i dont remember what i felt bad about but THANK YOU💕💕
honestly its done me worlds of good to share my art?? hearing people talk about how they go through all the same shit i do makes me feel so much less alone, especially on the toughest days! so i guess thank you, and thank you?
youre welcome!!!! :>
huh!! i dont know much about shoegaze (other than thinking abt that post abt the guy who pronounced it like fugazi I THINK ABT THAT EVERY TIME) but thats real neat!! im glad youve found something that works for you!!
hey, neat middle name! and youre very welcome; i hope things have been looking up for you since you sent this?💕
i dont remember when this was from but im currently doing really well with my meds!! i switched to a combination of lexapro in the morning and benadryl in the evening, and its been working super well!✨
thank you??!! ;o; i would love to see all your favorite birds!!
hey, right back atcha!!!
:0
ty!!!
hey. thank YOU
you’re absolutely not bothering me! thank you so much!!
!!!!!!!!!!
hey, nice! im glad you like both me and my music!
gosh thanks?!?!
she is the most beautiful and handsome!!!!!!!!!!!! i love her! thank you from both of us!!!!
aw, gosh! im sure i like you too!!
this was from.... A WHILE AGO.... but youre welcome?? i just wish i could have done more
hey, thank you so much!!!!!
thank YOU and a very very belated merry christmas!!!
that does make sense!! reconciling friendships and crushes is tricky business. the best i can say to you is to be as honest and open with each other as you can
i dont personally get those, but ive heard of people experiencing them as a sideeffect when coming off or switching meds
i think these two are part of the same message? but oh man yeah that sucks when ppl are misgendering you AND hitting on you at the same time. on a different note, ive never heard of using a corset to stim before! neat!
i mean, 1. depression doesn’t care if you have a “””good””” reason and 2. ive literally never met anyone w depression (including myself) who thinks that they do have a “””good””” reason for having it. thats the insidious part of depression, is that it makes you think that theres nothing wrong and that its all just you not measuring up in some way
so i guess that would make you.... someone with depression?
real BAD
💕 💖 💞 💓 💗
not yet haha THANK YOU
hey, im glad you like it!! since this blog has gotten so big, its kinda my happy place to be? (for anyone wondering, my reblog blog/personal is @spinels!
that IS a fun fact!! thank you!
it’s absolutely ok! i get a little bitter when people take my work WAY out of context (for example, straight people removing the caption that says “im just really gay” before tagging their bf/gf) but i am 100% ok and happy with people relating to my work in a different way than i intended (ex: a comic i made about being ashamed of my derma getting reblogged by someone struggling to be ok w their visible burn scars)
hoo gosh, thank you!!
glad to have you here!! im glad people can relate to some of the weirdly specific shit i write about tbh???
i’m sorry its taken so long for me to get back to you; that a terrible situation
if you have a teacher you trust, i would absolutely bring it up to them. that is 100% not an ok thing for those kids to be doing. at all.
im glad you at least have your friends that support you!
:0 WAIT is this someone i know through ucsc?? :0 :0 :0
HA
aaaa thank you! that is high praise ;v;
i have no words; this is such a touching message. thank you so much ;v;
this is belated but!! the main creative community i can recommend is kzsc, the radio station! i had a real cool time there, and its a great way to make friends and connect with ppl of all sorts! :0
yeah, its totally normal! ive had roommates ive been super tight with, and roommates who i barely ever hung around with. its natural! i doubt you’ll finish college w/o finding a roomie that you get ~The Roomie Experience~ with though, even if its like a housemate or s/t!! ;0
i’ve never been told that, actually! neat!! (and wow?? i cant believe i inspire ppl.... wow......... what a concept tbh??)
oh yikes... i do hope youre feeling better :( im glad my comics can help a little bit at least!
💕 💖 💞 💓 💗!!!
HUGS
i dont remember what this was in reference to, but good to know?
also good to know!?
i think the crows and jays do! i dunno about the squirrels and other birds. and thank you!!
the youth gang..... i love it..... how good???!
i wrote about getting yuri right here! he’s a southern alligator lizard and i love him to bits.
heres a pic of the Long Boy doin his thing:
hey neat! i’m glad youve chosen a lame you can be proud of!!💖
ive never heard of that!! wow
what play is this?? :0 :0 :0 im so curious now!!
oh SHUCKS...,,,,,,,,,, ;v;
hahahaha omg thank u
i dont actually have any more of them interacting, unfortunately! the owl isnt one specific person, like a lot of my characters are meant to represent. the owl more represents as a whole all the people i run into in my life that i am very very gay for.
thank you!!!
youre very welcome! im glad you feel better!!!!
aaa gosh thank you!!!
hhhhfgh ive gotten less of it recently BUT YEAH that was bad times™️
thanks for the info!!! :0
no problem! a lot of the credit honestly goes to @fuckaspunk, who is always keeping me updated on that sort of stuff.
i didn’t know that! a lot of the symbolism seems to come from multiple sources sometimes, from what ive seen?
aaaa gosh omg thank you ;v;
aw thank you???!!
nice!!! oct 24 bdays go!!!
thank you!! it really does mean a lot actually!!!!!!!
of course?? antisemitism cant be ignored in this fight
aw, thats so cute! id love to hear what headcanons you have tbh???
hey thanks?! this is really cool to hear, tbh. i try to be positive most of the time, but im not going to like,,, kid myself when im not feeling it and im glad that other people can appreciate that too, ya know?
wow!!
(this one!) thank you i love that one too???!
hey, im glad you found your way here!! thank you so much!!!
aaaa ty!
hmmm i have two leopard geckos, and they made very good beginning lizards for me and aidan! but i would maybe ask someone a bit more experienced than me, like @kaijutegu or @wheremyscalesslither!!
thank you!!
one day at a time! (but seriously, thank you!!)
yummy yummy sauce...... ty!!!
awww, gosh! thank you!?
AAAA TY BOTH I GET SO SELF-CONSCIOUS ABT MY VOICE,,,,, ;o;
:0 i havent watched that, but it sounds rly cool!!
i like that fun fact a lot! ty!!
pae stands for paerlin, which is what @fuckaspunk‘s internet handle used to be! i used it to refer to them on my blog in secret back when they still didnt know i had a crush on them.... ;//v//;
aaaaa thank you!!! ;o;
nice nice nice ty!!
>:0 get back down here!! (jk that’s rly neat! highfive!!)
those are all good words that i like!! thank you!!!!
i dont know anything about him, but i looked him up and i guess i can see it?!
@fishcrow is really cool! ive never really interacted with them, but im p sure were mutuals...? anyway yeah their comics are rly cute and cool!
that is me! thank you; i hope things go well for you as well!
hello to you too!
aaaa ty!!! tbh the number of nice anons i get way way way outnumbers the mean ones <3
thank you! thank YOU for existing!
:0 chocolate croissant, here i come!!!
thank you!!!!!!💕
its literally my pleasure!!!
aaa ty!!! 💕💕
hehe im glad!
sldf;j;sfjdklfdslfjs thank you so much?????? what a compliment omg gosh
yeah!! i have a hard time on settling what class id be, but i feel like id be a heart player!
ohh um! im not sure which pens youre referring to, but if you mean the ones I use for my comics, i color them with Winsor & Newton ProMarkers, and I do the lines with a purple fine-point Sakura Gelly Roll Classic pen! i also use micron pens of all different sizes and colors in some of my non-diary comic art!
aww thank you so much!!
:0 :) :0 !!!!!!
ty!!! ive grown to love him very much as well!!
thank you! i hope you are doing well also!!
i love them very much?!! id put a picture but i dont have one with all four of them so instead imagine me lying on the floor crying abt how much i love them bc thats me basically every day
you dont mean......
?!?!?!?!?!?!
awwww ty!!!
HEY WOW
aaa gosh thank you!💕
DOUBLE FOLLOW
gay dragons combine the best of both very good things: gay and dragons. im glad you appreciate them w me tysm ;v;
aaa what a lovely message! ty💕
3rd-shift-working, depression-having, corvid-loving solidarity fistbumnp!!!!
huh! ive never heard of that; ill check it out maybe!!
ah im really glad? tysm!!💕
my understanding is that it helps people who have text-to-speech readers? but im honestly not as well informed on that as i should be!
hell yeah!!!!
gosh!!!!!
hnmngnhng youve probably already made a decision but i just gotta say.........shadow rulez
delicious!!
i havent!! i really want to though!
oh man ALL THE TIME. i usually try to either reality check with someone i trust, or to do an activity thats easy and i know i can do, or both!
i love andre and karl!!! its actually a huge influence on me and my art tbh???
i had a good (and safe) trip! ty!!!
hey, thank you!!!
oh jeez thats bad :( i think this was in response to when i needed to wait between med refills?
i cant give a precise reason, tbh! when it comes to whats lucky, i just sort of.... go with my gut, ya know?
thank you!! 👍
that sure sounds like insomnia! its almost hard for me to say tbh, bc ive had trouble sleeping for as long as i can remember, so NOT having trouble sleeping is bizarre and unrealistic to me haha... but i think the bottom line is, if its interrupting your daily routine and making it hard for you to have enough energy, then its something you should look into remedies for!
:0 :0 :0
ohhh how nice! ill give it a try! :>
omg,,,, nope, just me!
thank you!!!!!!
honestly? thats such a good way to look at it i love the idea of my blog as a big zine
always!!!!! go for it!!!
hey, thank you so much!!!!!
omg, thats so great! thank you!
im so glad; thank you!!!
thank you so much!💖 (and mexico, neat! i love hearing where people are following from??)
aaaaaaaaaaaa ;//v//; thank you??? i get so happy whenever ppl tell me they like my singing aaaaaaa
aw, hey, no worries! money is all well and good, but in some ways, messages like this mean just as much!
its cool that comic gave you plural feels! im def not a system though :>
its tricky, isnt it? i still feel like im no good at it lmao
LISTEN,,, there is a 99.9999% chance i wont notice, and a 100% chance i wont judge. reblog away!
THANK YOU ARENT THEY THE BEST I LOVE THEM SO MUCH
thank you!! i hope you have a good day as well!
aaa ty!!💖
aa ty! (what a cool name!!! im kind jealous ngl!)
awww thank you💖
i do my best! i just worry when im not active, bc i tend to connect my self-worth to my output (;^; )
aaaaa ty!! 💖
!!!!!!!!!!!! omg wow i love being called a pretty boy???? ty???????
hey, neat! crow high-five!
aw, thank you!!! 💖
im doing my best! thank you so much, messages like this really help when im in a place like that tbh ;v;
gosh this is so sweet? thank you so muhc !!?
thank you all!! im sorry that saying thank you over and over sounds so repetitive, but i truely do mean it for every one of you!!!
i am..... one of those things!
well thank you!!
ohoho~✨
thank you! and honestly im sure it does??
hey, cool! good for you!!!!!!! and ty!!
aw gosh thank you!💖
hey, wow! thats super cool; thank you so much!
(i dont follow the first person i followed on tumblr anymore.... they became a hockey blog rip haha)
aaaah, thank you so much!!
almost???
i do!! drunken lullabies is an absolute banger!!!!!!!!!!
i am!!!! thank you!!
aw, ty!!! 💖
hee hee, thank you!
my biggest tip honestly?? have someone who can be by your side to help you with... basically everything... during your recovery. bc trust me, i was n o t a v a i l a b l e. i spent a lot of my recovery playing 2048 at the same time as watching tv, bc doing both at once distracted me from how much the bandages itched.
thank you!! (i think this was in reference to getting top surgery!)
how shitty??????? yikes. i hope your supervisor has your back??? bc wow????
hey!!! thank you!!! i draw all my comics traditionally on paper! im not sure what you mean by the writing though? if you mean the word bubbles, i do those by hand on paper too!
I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT FEELING,,,, im so happy ppl talk to me, but i get really nervous about saying the wrong thing.
when i’m down, i usually crave validation. i like being reminded about things ive done right! i also like gentle reality checks, like, ‘hey: this is the situation, this is what we can do about it. ok? ok’
i unfortunately dont have any!! i had a couple at one point, but they’ve since been lost to the depths of my old laptop. and hey, thank you so much!!
now thats a nifty trick!! im terrible at telling all my white tablets from each other lmao
!!!!!!! ITS ME!!!!!!!!
maybe you just need some space? i know i sometimes temporarily block people i know, if i need some private space or if i dont trust myself to keep cool and solve problems constructively. do what you need to do to feel at ease, and go from there, ya know?
thank you!!!
its,,,, up somewhere above in this monster post lmao i,m so sorry,,,,
thank you so much!!!
WOW NO WORRIES??,,,,,,,,, INCREDIBLE 10/10???????
all four of these came right after i gave myself a hair cut and THANK YOU SO MUCH??? i live for validation and it feels so good to have my actions affirmed ;o;
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