#its a Very complicated situation. and imo both sides are reasonable with the amount of information they each have

[scattered-winter]

I’m guessing the reason Adam had a falling out with Colleen is because he’s chosen to blame Sam and Matt for Shiro going on the Kerberos mission and dying.

Adam probably figures, maybe subconsciously, that if he doesn’t blame them for pulling Shiro away from him, Adam would have to blame himself for Shiro’s death. He pushed Shiro away and onto the Persephone.

It makes sense in a way. When people die, especially in sudden and unexpected ways, people often look for someone or something to blame, even if it was a complete accident or random chance.

Adam certainly doesn’t want to blame Shiro. So the only other people who could take the blame for his lover’s death are either Sam and Matt, the people who filled Shiro’s head with dreams and pulled him into the stars, or Adam himself, who held onto Shiro so tightly he ended up pushing his lover away and into the inky abyss of space, to never see him again.

that definitely is an aspect of it, yes!! though it's a bit more complicated than that, as things like this tend to be. and while we know that adam has a tendency to push everyone away when he's hurting (like he's doing rn with gold flight), in this case the falling out actually wasn't one-sided; colleen has beef with adam, adam has beef with colleen, they're both grieving, they're both very strong personalities that clash even in the best of circumstances, and the result is the Falling Out. I'm keeping things vague on purpose because it'll all be revealed later, but in this case adam actually isn't the only one lashing out and causing friction. for once lmao

[crowleygal]

Why I feel very little sympathy for Cas

It's basically a case of Make your bed you lie in it. Dean and Cas have always had a complicated history. Their relationship has been full of ups and downs, but for me the good always outweighed the bad. This analysis is only from season 11 on. Before then, I felt that Cas and Dean had a pretty good relationhip. Since season 11 Dean has gone out of his way to try and include Cas. When Cas was a dumbass and said yes to Lucifer, Dean did his best to try and save him. (While Sam was content to leave it to its fate, IIRC) Dean even thanked him for stepping up, when they wouldn't which we know itsn't true. In episode 11.23 Dean aplogizes to Cas if he made Cas feel like they were leaving him out, and calls him family and a brother. Not "like a brother." "You're our brother Cas and the best friend we've ever had." Admittedly, I've only watchd season 12 once but I can't think of any times Dean mistreated Cas or neglected him. Then The Future happened. (Ironcially written by Berens.) In this episode Cas has gone radio silent. He admits he's been ignoring Sam and Dean's messages. (So it seems like the rift with Dean isn't the first time he's done this. Its a pattern) Dean is clearly worried about him. He even tells Cas. "Dean: Cass, you can't – With everything that's going on, you can't just go dark like that. We didn't know what happened to you. We were worried. That's not okay" Castiel: Well, I didn't mean to add to your distress. I – Dean, I just keep failing. Again and again. When you were taken, I searched for months and I couldn't find you. And then Kelly escaped on my watch, and I couldn't find her. And I just wanted I needed to come back here with a win for you. For myself. Dean: You think you're the only one rolling snake eyes here? Me and Sam, we had her. We had Kelly and we lost her. Then Dean tells him: Dean: We will find a better way. Castiel: You mean, we? Dean: Yes, dumbass. We. You, me, and Sam, we're just better together. So now that you're back, let's go, Team Free Will. Let's get it done. Now its seems like so many people stopped paying attenion after the they saw he mixed tape, becuase so many ignore that Cas used that to lower Dean's defenses and steal the colt. It seems like his sole purpose for coming back was specifically to steal the colt and not to check in. Cas has a history of isolating himself. He does it her. This episode confirmed he had a room at the bunker. He chose not to stay. Dean's upset but at Cas stealing the colt but this is response: :Dean: Well, he hasn't exactly had a banner year. I mean, think about it. Between Lucifer (Blows air) killing Billie, Ramiel, everything's been blowing up in his face. And he's so desperate for a win right now, he can't even see straight. (gestures to truck) Go ahead and give it a try. (Sam climbs in truck) He's stil trying to understand where Cas is coming from. Then at the end of the ep, Cas betrays them for a third time by knocking them concious. Season 13 after Cas's death. Dean is clearly devestated. He even calls Cas his win when he comes back. Cas's response is basically to leave again shortly after. Did Cas even ask Dean how he was doing with all the deaths. When Cas gets kidnapped by Asmodeus, what we are show ON SCREEN is that Sam is the one calling Cas and not recognizing that he was speaking with Cas. But notice how when it comes to to take responsibility, the writers put it on Dean. But at least Dean apologized saying he should have recognized it. So other than that, I can't really think of anything that Dean did that was so horribley wrong that would classify as mistreatment. When Jack killed the snake, both Sam and Dean at this part had no reason to be mad at Jack. Yes, Sam and Dean suspected but Cas knew that Jack's thought process was warped. There was no reason for him to withhold that information. It would have changed how Sam and Dean approached Jack. I don't hold Cas responsible for killing Mary, but I do hold him responsible for lying. Info that if Sam and Dean knew might have prevented Mary's death. Cas is also still with holding info. He hasn't told Sam and Dean about his deal. If he can't be honset he has no right to question why Dean doesn't trust him. Jack was a danger to everything and everyone around him at this time. Where exactly was Cas? He has the nerve to lecture Sam and Dean about their decisions but maybe they could ask if he stuck around. Time wise, in , from 14.17-15.03, two to threes weeks passed at most. Dean's grief was still very raw. Maybe what he needed was space. Did Cas really show any remorse for Mary's death? Not really. Maybe what Dean needed was a little bit of space rather than Cas trying to force the issue. But Dean seems to be the one character not allowed that. Now, on the other end of coin, I remember when Jack said Dean didn't matter. Cas didn't say a word in Dean's defence. He ceratinly didn't seem to care that Dean would die if used the gun. Did Cas stick around in case Dean needed him after the whole Michael possession? Cas and Dean have never been buddy/buddy. 90% of their relationship has been call when you need something (on both sides). There have been minimal refernces to Cas and Dean going out for beers or just hanging out. We don't see Cas just popping in or calling to see how Dean is doing, but now it seems people want to punish Dean for relationship with Cas that they never had. If Cas thinks that just because Dean might be upset with him he doesnt' care than Cas never really knew Dean at all and didn't care too. There is ample evidece. The amount of times Dean has called him family. Refusing to leave purgatory without him, greiving his death hard, not once but twice, keeping the trenchcoat, Calling Cas his win. Its right there. Just becuase the writers chose to ignore it doesn't mean I have too. So they are right that this relationship is one sided but its Dean doing the majority of the giving. No matter how a person feels about Dean and Cas's rift, he doesn't have any issue with Sam. So why is he not answering Sam's calls? This is a pattern with Cas and happened long before any fights. he has no reason too. Its a CHOICE Cas is making. Once again he's choosing to cut himself off. Cas not talking to Sam is not on Dean. Again he's choosing to ignore calls, and again NOT the first time. So if he's feeling alone, its becuase he chose to isolate himself. He chose to constantly take off and go it alone, despite Dean and Sam reaching out to him. Dean is still clearly worried because he wanted to make sure Cas knew about God. He's right when there is nothing else they can do. Dean sholdn't be expected to chase after Cas. It should not always be on his shoulders to make the relationship work. He's put himself out there plenty and had his share of rejection. So for Berens to push that Cas has always been this lonely neglected, woobie, and Dean is just a mean bully is manipulative writing 101. the show is acting like Dean has been holding the grudge over Mary for months. Its been weeks at most. People keep saying Cas is hurting, sure, I get that, but Dean is too. He had to feel betrayed that his best friend chose his mother's murderer, didn't care that he would die. Dean was always the biggest believer in free will. He even coined Team Free will, so finding out they never had it, had to hit him the hardest. He also has to be questioning whether Cas was ever truly on their side or just a plant from God. Whether you think Dean owes Cas an apology, I'm not here to tell you otherwise, but the situation is not a black and white as Berens presented it. That entire scene was unfair to Dean becuase it presented a very simplisitc, shallow view of a complicated situation. It ignored years of history for a couple of isolated scenes, and it didn't give Dean dialogue. So, maybe if Cas feels so isolated and wants to find out why, maybe one of the first things he needs to do is take a long look in the mirror. He said "had a friend" Cas ended that friendship. Not Dean. If Dean didnt' care they wouldn't have been trying to warn Cas to be careful. He's angry but he certainly doesn't hate Cas. So IMO, at lot of this situation is Cas's own doing and of his own making. He owes Dean an apology as much as Dean might owe him one. Until then, I like the way Jensen has been playing it. Cool, aloof, but obviously, still concerned. Relationships are are a two way street and I would also like Cas to take a long hard look at how he treated Dean, because he isn't blameles for the current state of their relationship. Sorry so long, but I don't know how to do a cut.

[derangedhyena-zoids]

So now that I have a chance to write this in an orderly manner:

In my land of things, Hiltz is a Complete Monster. 

I only work with two* Complete Monsters in any of my stories, and the other one is technically abandoned, so. I don't have a lot of real estate for the explorations that come with these kinds of characters just because they tend to fucking bend space around them and make the whole story darker just because they're in it. Not every story I have is down for this, nor am I. so.

(*there is another character in KB  that is kind of this, but [it's complicated, and] their innate lack of emotional depth makes them not really... the same. being indifferent to abuse vs being oblivious to it is a big divider imo)

Despite the backstory comic I just made, I'm not trying make him sympathetic. That piece is just a tiny, specific, show-relevant slice of backstory that I've had in-mind for a LONG while because it was sorely missing. It exists just as much to "explain" him as it does point out that there were steep ethical issues involved with humans obliviously dredging up the past. Plus plants a flag in what relevance I think Hiltz actually had to the death of Raven's parents. I've always wanted someone to make something for that span of time and to my knowledge no one has. So.

My Hiltz backstory IN ZOIDIAN TIMES would very quickly paint him in a different light, and that's more-or-less why he essentially does a backflip and accelerates past the Moral Event Horizon fast in my canon because he was already there, just wasn't whole and hale enough to recall it. Also keep in mind that he's narrating the backstory piece (by necessity) so of course he's presented well.

He was part of a group that was already on an outright genocidal crusade against other Zoidians (and Zoids, and Organoids) who weren't "strong" enough and therefore deserved to die for the betterment of the species. That group got heavily into the power of the primal (you know, the four F's... except for them it was more like 3) because of the viciously positive feedback loop it set up. Their unyielding brutality was incompatible with the... you know, DECENT society other groups were trying to maintain. Hence big war, big apocalypse.

The events that led up to the Death Saurer/Death Scorpion took a long, excruciating time, over which the group Hiltz was part of chewed through the fabric of society like a cancer. Part of what made things really bad was the creeping conversion to the "winning" side's way of thinking. The assault on their society was both outright (active attacks on peaceful settlements) and insidious (attempts to convert, planting people in key positions/institutions, etc).

Once Hiltz got his wits about him in CC-times and realized what had happened, he felt obligated to do something to erase humanity - which was many times worse than even the most "inferior" Zoidian. The issues being, during his early time among humans he lost a fair amount of his mental stability because they did not treat him well (read: vivisected, and unintentionally they basically starved him), and he was kept in isolation. This damage was compounded by the lack of having Ambient around - Zoidians don't do well without their Organoids, and especially in that group they'd become over-reliant on them.  

So... Hiltz started out pretty penalized on the sanity front. (The only reason he just didn't up and die was because he was so strong-willed)

Then he realized the futility of his entire, prior belief system, life and efforts up to that point given that Zoidians were basically a dead race (hence his wide nihilistic streak) ... then let himself be tempted by One... then was basically, inadvertently mentally stabbed to death by Ambient carrying around the shard of One... then (in his mind) was betrayed by Ryss. And, you know, the whole Death Stinger power trip thing didn't help. There was very little good about him to begin with, but by GF there just Wasn't Any. He was completely ax-crazy.

But let me back up a little bit. 

Let's consider that tetchy canon timeline.

Per the math, Ryss being found in the Imperial village with Nicholai happened 3 years prior to when Hiltz retrieved Ambient & Raven's parents were killed. The Republican army attacked that village and took young Ryss, but given that Prozen had all the information about that village and its associated events restricted/classified, I'm going to make a relatively safe assumption that he had Imperial forces shitkick the Republican ones shortly thereafter and they took possession of Ryss.  

Ryss wasn't treated as badly as Hiltz was, but she wasn't treated especially well either. She had Specula so fared much better overall, but... she had Specula and people kept trying to mess with/take Specula away and THAT wasn't great. However, the Imperial Army - aggressively subverting expectations - was far more conservative in their Zoidian research so never did anything too drastic. Ryss was also incredibly hostile because she was afraid. She barely knew the language, and the range of traumatizing human behaviors she’d seen didn't help much.

Hiltz lived in that small colony during this timeframe, oblivious. Several years later though, after recovering his memory, he sought out the opposing faction, because fuck the Republicans and he needed resources to do anything. He figured he could talk, teleport, and brute force his way around - and he was right, and very soon was acquainted with Prozen.

And here's where I'm going to put up some 'sensitive subject' caution tape.

Shortly after that is when he learned they had a young ancient Zoidian girl in their custody. Obviously this was INCREDIBLY relevant to Hiltz's interests - remember, at that point he wasn't aware of any other living Zoidians, and from what he learned from the Scholar had become concerned that most that would've otherwise survived, had been killed.

So Hiltz is introduced to Ryss, who's matured a little but she's still the Zoidian equivalent of a preteen.

Remember: Hiltz is from the Big On Genocide group and to anyone who knows what's up, it's written all over him. Ryss is from a smaller clan that was specifically targeted by Hiltz's group so of course she's torn between being absolutely terrified and being glad that someone who speaks her language and understands Organoids exists at all.

Hiltz explained the situation as he understood it, and worked to gain Ryss's trust by basically denouncing his association with his group. He put an end to her being held against her will, and they stayed together from then on. But let's be real. Hiltz wanted to fuck her six ways from Sunday. And she was VERY aware of this. And he knew she was very aware of this. So on and so forth. (read: at this point in time Ryss found she could easily exert control over exactly one person and did so. Much to Hiltz’s chagrin.) 

However, not only were there functional issues with this (eg Specula wasn't fully sexually mature, which tl;drs into "Ryss wasn't yet either" - and obviously part of Hiltz's interest was reproduction), Hiltz also did have the sense to not... you know, rape a child. He did genuinely want Ryss to trust him, work with him, and - hey, you know, maybe even -want- to be his mate? Pickings were slim after all, but there wasn't any reason they couldn't make the best of a bad situation. (maybe he might have tried “not constantly thinking of her as a lesser” but okay)

So everyone grew up some more and hooray, Guardian Force.

Thing is, Hiltz was an angry, mentally-unstable person with a slow but vicious temper, and though Ryss rarely caught sight of that, his wanton violence was a bit scary. Ryss also began to sympathize more with humans over time, which Hiltz couldn't stand. Ryss especially sympathized with Raven, who she initially was just intrigued by, but then she kiiiind of fell for him.        

[insert that short comic, Collapse.]

I have no intention, never have had any intention, of portraying Hiltz positively. In my canon he's a disgusting, broken, shambling mess with offensively high Charisma and I thematically like the idea of his atrocious scattering of a lineage having to deal with all the problems that'd come with (also, hi: the whole thing with anyone of Zoidian blood feeling compelled to Zoids and especially Organoids? Is a sort of allegory for addiction, which... yanno, runs in families)

k? k.

Oh and Ambient is an aggressively problematic pile of shit also. He's just as vicious as Hiltz. Aren't we excited to have him show up in NC? HAHAH FUCK.

Organoids are their own entities, though. He's not just some strange extension of Hiltz's personality. He's his own "person" - one who's been a delighted participant in -many, many- atrocious acts. He's arrogant and prideful, he's got a dark sense of humor and is loyal to a fault. He just doesn't have a handle on the problems One has caused him, and it's gnawed at him for years. (and unlike the older canon version, he's not completely lost his mind or anything - but depressed wallowing in a pit of failure and hate for years isn't really healthy.)

He's also held on to grudges for dear life, because otherwise the vastness of existence w/o partners for a hugely social creature was untenable.

Basically, I think there may be some hope for him to be turned around as a character. Hiltz - nope, never.