#itsay episode 4

[bellarkeandclintashaandsuch]

ITSAY Rewatch! Episode 1 Continued (Finally)

- Why are there so many random firecrackers? Seems dangerous

- I guess it reflects their friendship going up in smoke though

- He passed with the top score for the abroad entrance exam? What does that mean? He didn’t go abroad, did he? Oh, wait the uni program with the China program or something

- I've never talked to him since :(

- Free meals! I love Teh’s mom. Is she speaking Mandarin?

- Uh-oh. His program is house-wreckingly expensive 😬

- Is Teh upset that his mom is talking about how expensive it is/how he should’ve just done the normal entrance exams? Or that she’s praising Hoon now and saying they rely on his money?

- You won’t be so embarrassed by the motorcycle with the sidecar when you have your bf with you

- You know, I thought these two other friends of Teh’s in this class would have a bigger part

- “Local devil” 😂😂

- If you’re so tired, don’t you think you should have someone to take care of your heart? 😂😂 how can Teh be so smooth with Tarn? He’s probably not actually smooth at all to most people, but I think so. Especially for Teh

- Oh, right. it’s because it’s not so serious (even though he does like her), and he knows she doesn’t want to date until after her exam. So that’s probably why

- But with Oh-aew it’s like, how do I express an emotion? What even are my emotions? Let me just smell you a second

- Two years hitting on her and he’s still trying*

- If you find someone better, you can be with that person… *enter Oh-aew stage right*

- Their friendship is so cute 😭 I missed Tarn in IPYTM

- Oh, studying with your old Chinese classmates, eh? Can’t see any problems popping up here

- So how often has Teh talked about Oh that Tarn’s first thought is, is your friend that you had a fight with (several YEARS ago) going to be there?

- And Teh’s face! Still so raw about it

- The MoRaoYuLok group chat!!!!! 💬

- And here are Philip, Kai, and Mod little babies :)

- You still hit so hard 😂

- My God. Everyone just knows they’re obsessed with each other even after not seeing each other for years. The others looking at each other when Teh looks inside. Oh’s already inside. Get in there, bud

- The whole scene when Teh walks in and Oh-aew turns around is a masterpiece. They're facial expressions are everything

- Oh's smiling when he turns around, but his face falls the second he sees Teh

- Not at all traumatized in his little name card frame

- (Also their friend tapping on Teh's shoulder, like look who we brought, Oh!)

- But I also love how he keeps looking at Teh, like he can't look away, while their friends introduce Bas

- He has a crush on Bas, but he's just looking at Teh while someone else introduces him

- And my ship-adled brain is like, mmm Teh clocks him as a love rival right away 😂 I'm sure he's not thinking that, but he could be thinking, great i've been replaced in my friendship group

- Get to know each other so we can be together a long time (😭). Meanwhile, Oh finally looks away but is now going through an existential crisis

- And Teh looks back to him with this face before the teacher comes in 💔❤️‍🩹 (also their friends' faces in the background are good too. they're loving the drama. Or that could be me projecting.)

- I don't know what this face says, but I think it's Oh thinking "we could've been dating for like half a decade by now if it weren't for you." Or maybe like, damn why'd he have to grow up hot

- And then Oh's cold face when he blocks Teh from sitting down 😂😂❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹 (those outside, come inside 👀)

- And yet this is his face after Teh walks to the other side of the room

- And Teh looking at him again :) :'(

*This is why I still have trouble with the cheating plot in IPYTM. I know that he’s kinda starting a relationship with Tarn and Oh in ITSAY. But I can see from his perspective how it’s not like that. Tarn keeps rejecting him. She even tells him, if you find someone else, that’s fine. So it’s confusing for him, and with everything that’s happened between him and Oh (and his possible internalized homophobia or at least fear of having to come out), I don’t see it like him cheating on Tarn or Oh. Once Oh comes back into his life, he’s mostly just confused. He’s not really in a relationship with either of them. But once he decides to let himself love Oh for real, it’s set. Nothing will change his mind. He spent two years asking Tarn out because he had a crush on her. I’m sure he could’ve asked other people out, but he didn’t. He doesn’t have a crush on Oh. He’s in love with Oh. He loves Oh like he loves acting. Nothing can deter him from either one once he makes up his mind. Like I can see the thought process to why Teh would cheat (with lots of inferring because there’s a lot we missed over four years in the story), but Teh is dedicated once he decides on something. In contrast to Oh-aew, who Teh perceives as fickle (to be fair, Oh said he quits things when he gets bored and put that thought in Teh’s head himself, which I did only realize in this rewatch (over a year ago…)). So I get Teh doubting Oh or thinking Oh would leave him eventually (not that I doubt Oh, but I can see that being the story), but I still have trouble with Teh cheating. I would rather the story had focused on Teh’s doubt of Oh than have cheating. Like Teh needing to understand that Oh isn’t a kid getting bored with an after school activity and that he doesn’t just drop everything after a while. I could definitely see that taking a toll on their relationship when they can’t spend as much time together as they want and with Oh dropping out of the program that Teh gave up to make sure Oh could have. I think that’s what Teh’s cheating ultimately stems from, but I just don’t see him actually cheating. (Especially not with someone as gross as what’s his face. Teh literally saw him making out with their professor. He can’t possibly be that stupid. And also I didn’t like having to assume so much of Teh’s thoughts in IPYTM. In ITSAY, it’s clear what he’s thinking even if he doesn’t say it.) I'm aware this scene could also be an argument for why he would cheat on Oh. But I just don't see it that way : \

[mushiemadarame]

oh shit i have only one episode left to watch of I Promised You The Moon and i am not the least bit ready to see how this ends or for the certain emotional devastation it's gonna cause

[bengiyo]

My Stand In Ep 4 Stray Thoughts

Last week, we continued in the past to deliver further details about the relationship between Joe and Ming. Joe found out from Tong that Ming is actually the son of an extremely wealthy family, and Tong turned hostile to Joe on the assumption that Joe is a gold digger. We left at drunk Ming crying on Joe’s back calling out to Tong.

Every week I show up to watch Joe embarrass himself further. Do not take this big career move under these circumstances for dick!

Wut please talk him out of this! This is a terrible idea!

You know, after ITSAY I wasn’t expecting another under the stairs scene to be like this.

I respect Sol. He’s the first BL boy in a while to block a punch rather than just take it to the chin.

These two are fighting and somehow Joe is the one getting his ass whooped. Feels right for his character.

This man is out of control! You never hit a person over the head if you’re not ready to kill them.

Ming really kidnapped this man for Tong. What the hell?

Ming can't cook, so who dropped off takeout to the dungeon?

I'm kinda impressed with Tong's ability to always get people to do things for him.

Joe fucked his way into this problem, and he'll fuck his way out of it!

Ming really is the one with Bottom Dementia if he's gonna give it up under these circumstances. Great work escaping from Joe.

I love the white people in Thai BL. It always feels like English isn't their primary language.

Now what is Ming even doing in this place after all that drama?

I wanna be with you on this sad train, Joe, but you embarrassed yourself in front of Derek Jeter.

Wow, Joe's plants really thrived on neglect.

Ah, Ming moved into Joe's place permanently. He might not even know Joe died.

I gotta be honest, Ming wasn't unhinged enough and Tong wasn't shitty enough for me to be really entertained by these three episodes of backstory. I don't really feel any momentum to continue this for another eight episodes. Joe doesn't have any motivation right now beyond some sort of curiosity that maybe Ming meant to reconcile two years ago? This is not working, y'all. I had fun with Porsche and Up playing out that fight, but Ming is not throwed off enough for this to really work. I'm super frustrated.

[wen-kexing-apologist]

Best of QL 2023: Favorite Lines

Okay well, I was going to spare everyone (and myself) from having to choose between all the pre-2023 shows I binged this year, but @twig-tea wanted more pain and suffering so here it goes:

Top Five Pre-2023 Lines that Lived Rent-Free In My Brain This Year:

"I don't want to see him sad." -Oh'Aew, I Told Sunset About You, Ep. 5

Okay so you see, my real problem here is that my favorite parts of ITSAY, the things that stay in my head rent free. No. The things I pay to stay in my head because I love them so much are the things that happen in the silence. Beginning of Ep 3, end of Ep 3, the kiss in Ep 4, the wrestling at the end of Ep 2. Those aspects, those moments are what absolutely destroyed me with this show. But I am gonna be real with you all, when Bas let Oh go like that? I wept. And I do love what it says about Oh that despite how much he has been hurt by Teh, he loves Teh enough to know how utterly devasted Teh is right now, and he cannot bear the pain of seeing someone he loves so hurt. Especially when he and Teh haven't spoken since Teh gave up his seat.

"You're tired, aren't you?" -Mork, My Ride, Ep. 5

If you saw my Favorite Lines 2023 post you would notice that this line is very very similar to my favorite line in Moonlight Chicken. And that is because loving and caring for people is super fucking exhausting. Meeting the world with kindness and grace and radical empathy in the face of horrible things, in the face of people who think you are weak for your kindness, or who seek to take advantage of it is fucking exhausting. And it is honestly quite rare that I see kind characters being asked this question, so I always go feral when they do because it is such a testament to love to say 'i see you' but to grant people enough space and autonomy to decide how honest and vulnerable they are going to let themselves be. I was talking with @ginnymoonbeam about this line a little so I am going to steal a line from her: "have you eaten" = I love and care for you

"are you tired" = I see how much you love and care for me/others

Of course the fact that Tawan absolutely just melts in to a puddle of tears because yes, yes he is tired, so so fucking tired does absolutely nothing to help me stop thinking about this scene. I love my boys!

"Because you raised me this way, that's why I'm not like other kids" || "I had to hate Pran, to compete against him, because of you? That's the reason? -Pran || Pat, Bad Buddy, Ep. 10

I cheated here. I do not care. These lines come almost one right after another and are just the same level of one-two gut punch that makes Bad Buddy so fucking incredible. Pat and Pran have been through so much because their parents were trying to save face. All the pain they have suffered, the lies they've had to tell, the caution, the fear, the secrecy in their relationship. How long Pran has had to keep his feelings for Pat at bay, how much Pat is sacrificing to let Pran maintain a good relationship with his mother, is all because their parents have decades old beef. There are so many good lines in this show, if I were to pick another one it would be "do you want to be friends?" "no" from Episode 5, but I feel like no lines sum up the conflict of Bad Buddy better than Pran and Pat confronting their parents.

"You must be disappointed in me." -Wang, 180 Degree Longitude Passes Through Us, Ep 7

Ok so I lied about this one, the line that absolutely stays in my head rent free is the line "Mom." Wang sobs after his fight with In in Episode 8 but I had a legitimate 30 minute melt-down over that singular line and moment so I am picking one of the next most painful lines for me. And if it wasn't this it would be the entirety of the 52 Hertz Whale monologue that In gives in Episode 3 because that is the saddest gayest monologue for the saddest gayest man. And if it wasn't those it would be the boy in boarding school monologue Wang gives in Episode 5. Honestly this entire script, and this entire show is with me always.

BUT what absolutely kills me about this line in particular is that Swasimol tries to shake her head no, and can't bring herself to lie, and Wang watches his mother nod in confirmation that she is disappointed in him when he tells her he is in love with In. And that's the part that is truly crushing.

"I know you're hurting," -Shiro, What Did You Eat Yesterday?

GOD. THEY MAKE ME SO. AGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH. Honestly a huge fuck you to @bengiyo for introducing this show to me, this brain rot is 1000% his fault.

There is something just so fascinating to me about Kenji and Shiro's dynamic especially around how they handle and navigate their queerness. Kenji is loud and out and proud and while we don't know if there was time his mother had to work up to it, we know that Kenji's mother is pretty accepting of Kenji being gay. But Shiro didn't have that same experience, and he is quiet, and struggling with internalized homophobia, and decently rooted in the closet. And I think when you have a character like Kenji who rarely seems to take the insults and the jabs to heart, who is just the human embodiment of sunshine you can forget that Kenji is human, and Kenji uses his sunshine as armor the way that Shiro uses his silence.

Shiro never says I love you to Kenji, in the first season he rarely engaged in any level of physical affection, and kept a distance from Kenji if they were walking together in public. But Shiro loves Kenji so goddamn much, so so fucking much, and while he can't bring himself to say the words it is in moments like this one, where Shiro knows despite the fact that Kenji hasn't given any indication, that Kenji is hurt by the fact that Shiro's mother rescinded his New Year's invitation.

Shiro and Kenji mean everything to me.

If anyone is curious about any other favorites (shows, cinematography, pain, etc) from this year, feel free to drop an ask!

[the-conversation-pod]

The ITSAY Anniversary Show, Part 1

AND WE'RE BACK!

October marks the third anniversary of the show that rewired the BL industry, and it felt like the right time for a retrospective. In part 1 Ben leads a panel talk on I Told Sunset About You. Just us along with @liyazaki, @waitmyturtles, @wen-kexing-apologist, and @so-much-yet-to-learn

Join us as we talk about our history with the genre, Phuket as a setting, the complexities of the characters, and why this show remains so important.

Listen on Apple Podcasts!

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

0:00 - Intro 4:16 - How did you come to ITSAY? 11:31 - Phuket as a Setting 19:00 - Style and Genre 29:40 - Characters 36:18 - Teh and Oh's Dynamic 50:07 - Why do you care so much about ITSAY? 1:04:08 - Outro

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes. When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

0:00 - Intro

Ben

BWOOOOOOOOM. Okay. It Worked. You're already in it. 

Nini

[laughs] That's staying in.

Ben

Welcome back to The Conversation, everyone, for our fall season. We're very excited about this season. We decided to take advantage of the reduced output of shows, at least for part of summer, and decided to do a retrospective on I Told Sunset About You and I Promised You the Moon. We also have made a lot of friends in our time on Tumblr and decided to hang out with some of them, and talk about the show so it wouldn't just be me and Nini blabbing about one of our favorite projects.

Nini

Our panel of I Told Sunset About You experts includes the lovely, the only Turtles a.k.a @waitmyturtles on Tumblr. We have Aiden @so-much-yet-to-learn on Tumblr. We have Captain Hands who is @wen-kexing-apologist on Tumblr. And the fabulous friend of the pod, our good friend mor @liyazaki on Tumblr. 

So that is our esteemed panel for I Told Sunset About You in this episode. That's who you're gonna hear. In the next episode we're gonna talk I Promised You the Moon and have a different set of people on. 

So, Ben, aside from the fact that it's the anniversary of I Told Sunset About You—the third anniversary—why did you feel like this was the right time?

Ben

I think this has probably been one of the most thematically interesting years that the genre has had, and I've said many times that I don't think we'd be able to get the kinds of quality productions we're getting out of the genre now without the success of I Told Sunset About You and I Promised You the Moon, and I feel like for us to move forward with this particular show I think we had to at least get that show out of our system and into the recording. It had been bothering both of us that we hadn't really sat down and talked about it even though we dropped constantly that we are fans. I think it was really useful to talk about it. 

I really liked that we actually split up for it because you and I talked to each other a lot on this show, and it was really fun to talk to some other people about the show first and get some other perspectives.

Nini

We always say that one of the whole points of The Conversation is to expand the conversation outward, so we had a really good time doing these panels. We think you're gonna enjoy them. So, let's just dive right in.

4:16 - How did you come to ITSAY?

Ben

We're gonna get right into it, Our first question of the night. We're gonna start with Mor: longtime friend of the podcast. Mor?

Mor

Yes, hi Ben! 

Ben

How did you come to ITSAY?

Mor

[laughs] Well I came to ITSAY actually as a relatively new BL watcher — I had very begrudgingly watched 2gether and a handful of other very typical GMMTV type shows. And I had heard that there were some higher budget higher brow BLs out there, but I'm not ashamed to admit that what initially drew me to the genre in the first place is the… kind of fluffy romance trope-driven narratives? And it was just the first time that I had encountered any kind of queer media that was so lighthearted, and typically took place in a world where homophobia basically doesn't exist, and especially as a slightly older queer, that was such a nice change of pace compared to the other queer media that I'd been consuming up until that point. So frankly, the idea of watching a more serious BL back then made me a little nervous, even though that's a lot of what I typically watch when it comes to Western media. So I put off watching ITSAY for a while until I eventually decided to just jump into it and the rest is history. 

ITSAY isn't just my favorite show in the genre, it's one of my favorite shows and pieces of media period. I Promised You the Moon is too, but that's a hot take I'll expound on next time.

Ben

Thank you. Aiden, what about you, you've been around BL for a bit. How did you come to ITSAY?

Aiden

I've been in the BL slash QL sphere since the beginning, largely as a lurker. I didn't watch ITSAY when it aired, due to not being in the right headspace at the time to tackle a show with that much emotional impact. It was obviously very much in the zeitgeist, constantly in my feed, impossible to miss. So many other shows since then have been compared to it and I always planned to watch it someday in the nebulous future, but with so many things constantly airing I’d never quite gotten around to it. 

So when word went out that Ben and Nini were looking for people who hadn't watched it yet to get a mix of perspectives, I figured there probably weren't many others who'd been around as long as I had and somehow hadn't watched it yet. I re-evaluated whether or not I was ready to watch it and turns out I was! So, better late than never.

Ben

I am so glad we finally convinced you to watch the show. I wasn't gonna push you but I'm like ‘oh my god Aiden’s finally watching.’

Aiden

I'm glad as well. It was definitely an excellent thing to watch.

Ben

Okay, Captain Hands! [laughs] What about you?

Captain Hands

So I got into BL like a year-ish ago, and of course being a queer person who had not seen a lot of queer media the worms got in my brain instantly! There's like a master post of queer Asian shows that is somewhere on Tumblr that I saw, I don't know what user it is, sorry! But I saw a post that had I Told Sunset About You on it as like a good show to watch but I wasn't sure where to access it at the time, so I kind of just filed it away for later. Cut to like six months later, Ben and Turtles were yelling at me to eat vegetables, Kyr-kun-chan changed her icon to I think PP or Billkin or something, Nini mentioned PP and then a thousand messages in the clown server later ginnymoonbeam and I committed to watching ITSAY for the first time, which is probably a good thing because then Ben could warn me about doing one episode at a time.

Ben

Oh right, you were the one who was like, I'm tough I can watch more than one episode at a time. No.

Captain Hands

Wrong. Very wrong.

Ben

I'm glad you also finally joined us. Last but definitely not least, Turtles what about you? How did you come to ITSAY?

Turtles

Hey folks! Ben and Nini, thanks for having me, this is so awesome. All right, so, I guess what I'm the most well known on Tumblr for is the old GMMTV challenge project that I am blogging on. I came to BLs through Kinnporsche, at least Thai BLs through Kinnporsche, I was familiar with Japanese BLs for a couple years before that. I Told Sunset About You, in regards to it making it into the project — it was obviously going to be a natural part of the challenge syllabus, in terms of anybody picking up that syllabus and learning about Thai BLs in the first place. But the entire project, the watch list is community contributed, it’s 100% created by the community of Tumblr posters who love Thai BLs and who have lots of opinions about Thai BLs including this group here. It wasn't just through the solicitation of feedback on the OGMMTVC, uh, that I came to it, I certainly had seen I Told Sunset About You and I Promised You the Moon on many lists across Tumblr as, as an impactful BL. But in regards specifically to where it belonged by way of chronology, and by way of its cinematic impact, all of that feedback came through my soliciting the community on Tumblr for creating my syllabus that is teaching me about Thai BLs, and will hopefully get replicated in other people's journeys as well. So that's how I came to it.

Ben

I'm very excited by everybody's answers about how they came to this. I want to ask a quick follow-up question since — some of us have been here since the before time and the long long ago, and some of you got started like a year or two ago? Going in reverse order real quick: what is everybody's first BL that they remember? Turtles?

Turtles

The classic, the wonderful, the amazing, What Did You Eat Yesterday? Long story short, that was the first time I had ever discovered Tumblr as well — enjoyed that drama and I was absolutely insane for it for about two years solid.

Ben

Thank you for that. Captain Hands! What was your first BL?

Captain Hands

My friends were really obsessed with Word of Honor and showed it to me, so I got really into that, and that's how I found the, like, list of other BLs. If that does not count as a BL, then Kinnporsche was the first thing that I watched.

Ben

[laughs] Aiden, what about you? I'm actually really curious to hear your answer, because you and I have been around since the beginning.

Aiden

It depends on how you define BL, really. The first thing that I think could probably qualify would be the first Takumi-kun from Japan in 2007.

Ben

Unfortunately, that counts.

Aiden

Yeah [laughs]. Unfortunately indeed.

Ben

What about you, Mor? You said ITSAY was one of your first BLs. You have any others you watched before that? Or what was your other pathway into this?

Mor

2gether was one of the first ones, which is ironic because I hated 2gether. [laughs] I don't know why I finished watching it, I was just intrigued, so even though I kind of despised it for a lot of personal reasons — just wasn't for me — I enjoyed it enough that I wanted to keep watching. I wanted to find more.

Ben

I'm absolutely fascinated by how everybody came to this. It's KinnPorsche, 2gether, What Did You Eat Yesterday? and Aiden with some of the oldest stuff.

11:31 - Phuket as a Setting

Moving on to our next question! We're going to get into some setting stuff. What about Phuket as a setting stands out to you? I think I'm gonna have Mor answer this one first because they actually visited Phuket and some of the filming locations.

Mor

I certainly did, and I made a concentrated effort to take pictures, as some of you I think have seen, of the actual scenes in ITSAY, like the famous chip crawl deck, which was a journey to find. It was an incredible experience getting to visit Phuket. The setting of Phuket is unlike any other backdrop to a BL that I've ever seen. The landscape is really a character unto itself. I get a very similar but also sort of very rare sort of feeling when I watch ITSAY as I do when I'm watching, say, the train scene in Spirited Away. It's like looking at a natural environment that's been elevated to something almost magical just because of the way it's being shot or portrayed. 

I read once that Miyazaki's films almost make you homesick for a place you've never been, and that's how I felt about Phuket after watching ITSAY, to the point that it absolutely influenced my decision to go to Thailand and actually go there. And having been I can say it's just as lovely as they portray it to be — but I do know my attachment runs a lot deeper and is more personal than that, because Phuket to me will always be tied to Teh and Oh. 

The specific locations they chose, having now been there and walked around and seen it — it was so smart and it really enhanced the narrative while never overwhelming it or taking away from it. Like, I was very struck that the beach that the hammock scene takes place on… it's very wide, it's very open, and you would almost miss the hammock, because the way that the trees hang so low to the beach, it really sort of encapsulates the hammock? You have to actually climb under the branches. It really I think created this effect of Teh and Oh — they almost look cocooned in the darkness, in this otherwise very wide open environment. Maybe it felt a little safer because of that, to start saying what they had been feeling and skirting around. The wide shots of the beach chase scene… and obviously the beauty of Promthep Cape, and so many other moments. Phuket just… it did so much to enhance the intimacy of the scenes, and move this story along.

Ben

Apparently we're all going to have to go visit Phuket now. Turtles, when you were reacting to the series you were writing about some of the cultural crossover stuff. What do you have to say about Phuket as a setting?

Turtles

I've never been to Thailand, but I have spent a good portion of my entire childhood and adult life in Thailand's southern neighboring country of Malaysia — with my mother being Malaysian, my being part Malaysian — Phuket is an incredibly important locale for me to consider. Chinese migration from Fujian, from other locales in China, traveled in part down that Thai landscape to the Malaysian peninsula, and then ultimately settling all throughout Thailand, through Malaysia as I said, and ultimately into Singapore which has a majority Chinese population. 

A lot of what I learned about Phuket in part comes from my own Malaysian heritage, but also through conversations with other amazing Tumblr users including the very wonderful telomeke, who hails from the southeast Asian region himself. Phuket, Penang, Kuala Lumpur, these are towns that happened to receive more than their fair share of Chinese immigrants, that ended up in part creating a very unique culture that we call Peranakan culture: Chinese immigrants intermingling with ethnic residents of the areas in which they settled. Teh's mom is just a fabulous example of somebody that, that holds a lot of those influences all in one person: she wears Peranakan clothes, particularly when she's hosting events for the public at her Hokkien Mee stall.

Ben

Captain Hands, Aiden, do you want to say anything about Phuket?

Captain Hands

Phuket is a small town when compared to locations like Bangkok, which is where a lot of I Promised You the Moon is going to take place. I've been thinking that the small-town vibe works very well with how often it feels to me like Teh's entire world is ending whenever Oh, like, does something that like makes him jealous. Or like, if Teh's rejected or if he makes a mistake, like you can just feel in his body how much that impacts him, and it feels very small-town to me, to like to have these little moments be so big to him. 

There’s such a significant use of the Chinese language in this show, and for all the ways that like Chinese is used to tell us, like, what Teh is thinking and feeling, and for all the ways that like Teh is taking the time to try to teach Oh how to understand the language that Teh himself uses to express himself frequently — is a really poignant thing for me to pick up on considering Teh's own heritage, and like, his mother's heritage, and like the Chinese immigrant population that is a part of that community.

Ben

Turtles was talking about the cultural crossover that occurs in Phuket from all the various people migrating there. I'm from New Orleans which can jokingly be described as the northernmost Caribbean city, that has passed between French and Spanish control multiple times, and has now been occupied by Americans for one hundred and fifty years. So we have a very weird collection of cultures here as well — most evidenced in our architecture. And I think about that a lot when I reflect on Phuket — because I just rewatched it this week — it looks different from what we usually get in Bangkok.

Turtles

This show was so unbelievably layered by its visual cues, from a cultural interpretive perspective. Ben, as you pointed out to me, one of the friends, Phillip, he clearly comes from from a Islamic family, his parents are shown wearing a hijab and a songkok, and it's just very indicative of the the filmmakers giving us the indication that we're talking about… the mixing of cultures, assimilation and melting pot, all of the different words that we want to throw out there. 

As per your note about New Orleans, you know, as we say in Malaysia same same lah. It's very comparative to all of these indications that they were bringing up about Phuket. Thinking about Phuket as a tourist town as well, as compared to New Orleans, having just been to New Orleans myself, I think that there's just so much to, to pull out there by way of whether you make Phuket a permanent home or not. Teh and Oh clearly exist on the borderline of that permanence as they get closer to going to college.

Ben

There's something specific about growing up in a tourist town, like you can go visit tourist locations during peak tourist season as a way to avoid people you know. Because unless they're working the location, it's just strangers.

19:00 - Style and Genre

Ben

We're going to move to our next question here and get into some style questions. How does ITSAY play with genre and stylistic expectations? And specifically, are there any works that you recall while you were watching it? Aiden, you and I had talked a little bit about this.

Aiden

For myself when I was watching ITSAY, rather than paying attention to the source materials that ITSAY drew from, I found myself thinking back on shows that I'd seen since ITSAY aired and reevaluating them through the lens that had changed from my watching it. ITSAY clearly broke open a number of aspects that the Thai BL circuit specifically hadn't delved into until then, and expanded the genre as a result. 

My personal favorite impact is seeing shows set in rural locations, which were quite thin on the ground before that point, and have increased at least in visits if not fully set in more rural locations since then. Shows like Tale of a Thousand Stars, Cupid’s Last Wish, I Will Knock You, Remember Me, Moonlight Chicken. And it also, it showed grit and grime in a way that you really hadn't seen before that point in at least the BL genre. It was more common in media intended for queer audiences or art house type of content but the BL genre had always been very sanitized, very urban, very clean cut. Almost cartoonish and simplistic. And seeing something where you got to see buildings with marks on the walls that are from, you know, monsoon rain, stains, faded paint, chipped plaster, dirt on the ground, picture glass that had flecks on it, dust settled on things — that was a revelation, at least at the time. It really made things feel a lot more… settled and grounded and realistic. It felt like you could walk down the road and see these places, rather than it being a kind of constructed facade of where these shows are, that's an everyplace everywhere kind of generalization. And that followed with shows like Not Me, I Will Knock You again, Remember Me, that you got to see the grittiness, Not Me especially. 

The inclusion of religion, more Chinese cultural aspects, things like that that had largely been omitted from most shows until then, started becoming involved more in the day to day life that you got to see. Things like the talk Bart where you do the alms in the morning providing the food for the monks that go around traveling from home to home. 

We also started getting more slower paced shows like Nitiman, You're My Sky — which had heavy callbacks — Coffee Melody, My Only 12%. Shows with high concepts, stronger writing, better production value on a number of levels, like, ah, Bad Buddy, Triage, La Pluie, Kinnporsche. Also things with some of the more awkward side of queer life, which until then had very much not been present almost at all, outside of the more tragic kind of shows. Because again, it was that sanitized, sort of, ‘it has to be picture perfect, it has to be ideal’ kind of… nuance and vibe on the shows. And so we got things like Secret Crush on You, and I'll argue that I Will Knock You should fit there as well. 

The way that it's expanded the shows that have come after — and yes we do still have those sanitized, simplistic, clean, bubblegum sort of shows — very much enjoyable when you're in the mood for that sort of show, but we've also added things to give more breadth. Things like La Pluie, Step by Step, Moonlight Chicken, that make it a much more encompassing sort of genre, able to draw broader crowds that have differing interests as well. I am thrilled to see the change and be able to tie back now to how that was driven by ITSAY.

Ben

This is one of the reasons why I was really glad we finally got you to watch the show, because you've been in the genre as long or longer than me? And it was one of the shows that you had skipped for specific reasons when it first aired and I was curious how your long view of the genre would play into your reflections upon it. 

When I watched ITSAY, I ended up having a really intense reaction to the end of it — positively, as a result of some of the works that had come before. It's sometimes hard for me to connect ITSAY to other BLs that pre-date it, because those BLs are often heavily influenced by product placement and a slapstick version of humor that ITSAY is not relying on at all — it's an incredibly serious show about what it wants to cover. And that connected me back further to some of the German works I had watched growing up. Like Summer Storm, which is I think from 2004, there's a Dutch film called Boys from 2014, Big Eden from America in 2000 which uses its setting in the American hinterland really well. And I just had not seen this in Thai BL. 

The closest we came to something this grounded-feeling from Thailand was The Love of Siam, which they submitted to the Academy Awards in 2007. I actually had Turtles and Captain Hands watch that this week, so before I get into my very specific reactions to that, at the end of episode 5 of ITSAY, I kind of want to hear you two, and what you have to say about Love of Siam in relation to ITSAY before we move forward.

Captain Hands

You've said before that you felt like ITSAY is an apology for Love of Siam, and I fully agree. Two kids that are childhood friends separate for a number of years, come back together, the attraction between them is instantaneous and very obvious and kind of hard to ignore? And then having it end the way that it ends for Love of Siam, is, you know, it's a choice! I can understand and see why they would play it that way, but I agree with you, Ben, that it is, that this feels like an apology for what they did to us with Love of Siam.

Ben

Turtles, any commentary you want to give?

Turtles

Me not being Thai, not knowing Thai, having not visited Thailand — for a movie in 2007 to end with a successful same-sex relationship would have surprised me. So the film ending the way that it did was not surprising, and I found the journey to get to that point really poignant. That is a very deeply Turtles read, a very deep Asian read. Absolutely no surprise whatsoever that many BL filmmakers were influenced by this movie. And as far as ITSAY goes, is ITSAY an apology for Love of Siam? I can absolutely understand that verbiage, that's not a verbiage that I would necessarily jump to using. 

I could very well say that if ITSAY had ended without Teh and Oh getting together, I also would not have been surprised, especially with the way episodes 3 and 4 went. And now that I've seen Love of Siam I could feel stronger in that opinion. Now, as far as it making me feel good or satisfied with the story conclusion? That's, I think, you know that's, that's personal extrapolation there. But as far as the art itself goes I think Love of Siam communicated to me that I would not have been surprised if Teh and Oh didn't get together, if they had more personal, emotional, and also macrocultural wrangling that they needed to do. Love of Siam absolutely talks to ITSAY but I'm not sure that I would necessarily call it an apology.

Ben

Mor, do you have any commentary on genre history?

Mor

The really interesting, different thing that ITSAY did for me, as specifically a queer 30-something, a Westerner who's been in all sorts of extremely homophobic environments and, and different things throughout my life, and I've just gotten used to not having happily ever after. What I loved so much about BLs in the beginning was just, ‘oh man, we can have these light, bubbly, effervescent stories that get a happily ever after and it doesn't have to be complicated, it can just be sweet?’ And it was such a new concept for me, to see that. 

So, ITSAY ended up, like, with the ending that we got, it ended up being almost healing for me? As dramatic as that sounds. And that's really why, because it subverted it. You could tell going in, this is gonna be serious. This is gonna be hard-hitting. We're gonna be getting into deep stuff in terms of these queer kids figuring out who they are, and learning how they can be together, if they want to be together. So I was sort of expecting — because of my history and what I'm what I'm used to seeing — okay, well we're going serious, it's not a good chance this is gonna end well. So to see that — which frankly was a much more realistic portrayal of queer relationships than your typical sanitized BL — that is what took ITSAY for me to god-tier media, god-tier.

29:40 - Characters

Ben

Let's get into some of the character stuff. For all that they are incredible and great characters, why couldn't it be Bas or Tarn for Teh and Oh? Captain Hands! You're up first for this one.

Captain Hands

So the easy answer for me is that it just couldn't be? Like neither Teh or Oh really knows exactly when they developed feelings for each other, and they both try to have feelings for Tarn and Bas and they just can't make it work. Teh going to Tarn at 4 am and asking her to tell him that she loves him was, for me, like, ‘Oh I need to know what it feels like to hear this from her so I can know how it, how it feels… to hear it? And to know whether or not that feels good? If that feels something, like something I want to hear.’ 

For a more, you know, in-depth answer, because that's my whole shtick, right? There's a couple of things that I was thinking about, mostly the Chinese language element, the color element, and then just like Tarn and Bas as characters? One of the throughlines of ITSAY is that Teh frequently writes whatever his subconscious is fixating on over and over again in Chinese. Teh can't parse through the complexity of his emotions, but he can summarize them in like words, so like ‘rival’ or ‘intimate,’ and we know that there is much more behind what he's writing, than like what is actually being put down on paper? Because Oh's not good at Chinese, Teh spends so much of this show like painstakingly teaching Oh how to understand Chinese, and like how to understand him as a person and like his subconscious? So like once Oh starts to get it and get better at Chinese is when they really start to connect more intimately. If you think about the end of episode 3 with the sniffing scene, the buildup to that moment is Oh using the male/male protagonist question — like, how you say male protagonist in Chinese, how you say female protagonist in Chinese, is male-male okay? — is him asking if Teh is okay with them like potentially becoming a couple. 

And I know this is going to kill Ben to talk about the colors, but this is for the color girlies! Oh is red and Teh is blue and green, and something that I did notice on this watch through is like, Teh's home is filled with red, like the walls of the restaurant are red, his bedspread’s red, the couch, the clothing his mother wears is often red, and Oh's home is… very much blue and green, so like the sign for the Panwa resort is blue, the windows, all of the windows are framed in this kind of like, light green. These boys grew up in each other's colors. Their home is each other's colors. And so of course when they first meet, they're going to be drawn to one another because they remind each other of home. Tarn's color is purple, and so there are parts of Tarn that Teh is drawn to, but I see that as kind of being like the red parts of Tarn. 

Oh likes Bas because Bas kind of acts as a similar person in his life to Teh. In episode 2 Oh says that he likes Bas because Bas drives him around, but he won't confess because he doesn't know what Bas's feelings are for him, and he thinks that Bas likes girls and he doesn't want to lose him as a friend, when that is a direct parallel to Teh. And something that I started noticing on this watchthrough is that Bas picks up whatever color Teh is wearing, but he's often like a scene or an episode behind. So in episode 4 Teh’s wearing green at the beginning of like them going to the resort? And then Bas picks up the green when he shares a bed with Oh, and then by the time that Bas has picked up that green color, Teh and Oh are both in yellow, and so like they're now matching, and Bas is is behind the curve. 

From the perspective of just like, Tarn and Bas as characters, like they both value themselves enough to know when to let go, which I think is a very crucial part of their relationships with Teh and Oh? When Teh colors the hibiscus that Tarn draws red, she shuts that shit down like immediately and sends him home. And when Oh is quiet and sad on like the drive home, Bas knows immediately like why that is, and goes to Teh’s house. So like I really strongly believe that Oh ends up with Teh at the end because Bas gives him up? Oh would have kept fighting the urge to go to Teh, and like to comfort Teh and to support him, if Bas hadn't driven Oh to Teh's house and been like, ‘it's okay, it's fine, I understand.’ And, and given him that freedom.

Ben

I’m very fascinated to follow up on the thread about Tarn and Bas having more willingness to cut those boys off [laughs]. Anyone else have any commentary they want to talk about on Bas or Tarn? Oh please, Aiden, proceed.

Aiden

It just needs to be said that Bas is the best boy and Tarn is the best girl. Sorry, somebody had to say it.

Ben

Thank you, sir. So [laughs] I think Teh likes Tarn because she's as committed to her future as he is. She intentionally does not pursue a romance with him because she thinks it would get in the way of her pursuit of her art and architecture career. And Teh is super committed to his career as an actor. And I think that's probably why he liked her so much? This is a little bit of I Promised You the Moon slipping through. But like Captain Hands pointed out: because she's committed to what she wants for herself, she's not going to sacrifice a ton of her stuff for him the way Oh might, or that Teh might for Oh. 

And Bas… I've been thinking a lot about second lead stuff because of conversations with Shan. Bas doesn't confess until really late in the game? But so much has happened at that point, that Teh is going to be able to break past that because of the earlier promise. I agree that he is the best boy. But I think Oh likes the drama [laughs] that Teh brings to his life.

36:18 - Teh and Oh-aew’s Dynamic

Ben

On to our next question! The dynamic between Teh and Oh-aew is one of the primary draws of this story. What did you connect to in their dynamic or their story? Mor, you're up first.

Mor

I'm vibrating, can you tell? [laughs] So there is so much, I think, that could draw anyone into the story of ITSAY, because the glories and the pitfalls of first love, they have so much in common regardless of who you fall in love with. But I personally connected so deeply to their story, again, as a queer person, I know a lot of other people did as well. You can't help but painfully relate to both of them — at least that was my experience, especially my younger self — Teh having so many feelings that he spends so much time being incapable of processing or acknowledging, let alone communicating? And Oh being so long-suffering and hopeful and just pining with his whole self for this mess of a boy, who doesn't know what he wants or what he's doing. I mean not that Oh really does either; who knows what they want in a relationship when they're that young? And when you have feelings for your long-lost best friend that you just reunited with, it's very complicated. 

But there were just so many quintessentially queer experiences in ITSAY and in their dynamic that hit me right in my gay little heart. The tiny secret touches that mean so much, the affectionate friendly banter that all of a sudden is veering into flirting, or ‘are we flirting, like what's going on?’ and then the crippling doubt that sets in afterwards and how it can haunt you for days. This gut wrenching fear that these feelings you found yourself in can possibly affect your whole life: how your friends feel about you, whether or not your family accepts you. There's just so much that we have to consider, well beyond what our hetero peers typically have to deal with, and it's exciting and it's terrifying. It's not just incredibly validating, but like I mentioned earlier, it's healing in a way, to see such a frankly visceral experience portrayed with so much care and accuracy, as they did with giving us Teh and Oh's story, and their dynamic and how it progressed. I just feel like overall the stakes are so much higher for us? And often at so, so young and tender ages, to just explore who we are, to like and to fall in love with who we want to, and… their whole story for me, watching it unfold — this is very dramatic but it's true — for me, it felt like someone peering into my past looking at all these little hurts I forgot, these bigger ones that are still healing, and saying, ‘it was like this back then wasn't it? It was so hard. But there's so much beauty here, and you can have it too! It can be yours too. You can have this struggle, you can go through all of this, you can walk through the fire and emerge through the other side with this beautiful, beautiful thing, that maybe even is even more beautiful because of how much work and how much brokenness it took to get there.’

Ben

I'm so glad we got to let you get that out of your system, Mor. [laughs] Turtles or Aiden, do you have any commentary on Oh and Teh?

Aiden

For me the, the dynamic between Teh and Oh was very unique and… not something that I had necessarily dealt with, but the coming-out scene for Teh and Hoon resonated incredibly strongly for me. The dialogue from that scene matched almost word for word how I came out to my own brother? And the emotions, and the fear and the terror and the relief and the reassurance and the, you know, gentle teasing to lighten the mood… that felt so real. Mine had [laughs] rather less crying, at least in the moment, I definitely did later — but the text and the, the feeling of that scene just took me right back to that moment. And there's so much about this show that is authentic in a very specific way to different people's experiences.

Ben

Thank you Aiden. Turtles?

Turtles

For me, what Oh was able to get out of Teh, by way of what I called a drunken hormonal experience… just the way Billkin acted in his exploratory attraction towards Oh and how PP received it… how their physical interplay represented that budding romance, that budding attraction. The end of episode 2 on the boat particularly moved me, let alone the incredibly impactful endings of 3 and 4. I was surprised to sort of see Teh… melt, and go back and forth in his physicality at the end of that episode. Just the physicality of that exploration, and how the physicality itself then compared to and reflected on all the emotional processes that we saw between the two of them. I thought that that was so unique particularly about this show, and how unabashed it was to display such physical attraction developing between the two of them, particularly on Teh's end. That's something that I'll really take away from this show, that it displayed attraction, really really vibrating attraction, in such an impactful way.

Ben

Captain Hands, you have any commentary?

Captain Hands

Of course you know I do, I have commentary about everything all the time. So I think the thing that really drew me to Oh and Teh’s dynamic was the power of their feelings for one another, and like, especially the way that Oh acts as a magnet to Teh and like, the trance-like state that Oh kind of puts him in, so you get all these moments of Teh just kind of following after Oh, and like Oh being aware of that power that he holds? The sincerity of their characterizations and the commitment to their characters… I love this show so much for having Teh just constantly walk in circles. And how that will kind of translate into just the cyclical nature of his own personality, and like the experiences that he has, and the stuff that he puts himself through. The things he will continue to do as their relationship progresses. You can tell so much, like how comfortable these two are with each other, and how in love they have been with each other since they were kids, and that's another reason I think that they couldn't have really been with anybody else, is because they have all of this history between them? That is like so palpable, and like how much Teh wants to protect those memories, and like the feelings that he has when he's with Oh. The line that they say like, ‘don't give my time to others’ is so poignant. 

Seeing the way that Teh is continuously transformed by being around Oh, hating coconut at the beginning of the show and thinking that it smelled bad, and then like having that scene with Oh on the boat at the end of episode 2, and then immediately opening episode 3 with Teh just smashing a bit of coconut meat on his face as like hard as he can, because he just wants to be like as close to it as possible and like, how it doesn't smell bad anymore, and how it tastes good now because he's starting to have these feelings for Oh. And that has radically changed how he interacts with the world around him. It’s just like so good to me to watch being portrayed on screen, especially because Teh is not aware of his queerness in the way that that Oh is? And so like, Teh not knowing why he feels the way he feels, and then lashing out because he can't put a name to like, what it is that is causing the feelings that he has, it feels very, very in keeping with like, the queer experience as you are like, learning your own identity.

Ben

The thing with ITSAY — it's not just the things that it does that are familiar: with all the important touching, the knowing that exists between you, the dealing with the homophobia, the concern about how other people will perceive you, whether or not your parents can be proud of you if you are honest about this portion of yourself. What I think makes ITSAY so special as queer media, and why I lose my mind over it? It's about the fact that these two cannot hide how they feel from each other, at all. And as a result they are the most cry baby boys I have ever seen in all of queer cinema. I just rewatched it this week. These boys are crying constantly at and about each other. Every time any one of them says anything to the other, they make the other one cry over something. 

It's interesting because so much of the ‘are you are you not’ thing, when you're growing up, is about the uncertainty that the other boy is actually feeling it? And that never feels like it exists between them. Oh knew what he was feeling, but as soon as Teh starts to show interest in him, he picks up on it instantly, and eventually confronts Teh very directly about it. As Turtles pointed out, the way the intimacy between them is displayed so frankly. They spend all of episode 3 dancing around each other — we know where this is going! And then you get the back-scratching scene which leads into this arc about Teh dealing with the physical reality of Oh being a boy. Episode 4 has the underwater kiss. During the underwater kiss, Teh puts his hand on Oh's chest again, and Oh has a reaction to that, and you can see him immediately being hit with the uncertainty about Teh's attraction to girls — in the middle of the best kiss that has ever happened. And I don't think I noticed that in my earlier watches: even during this huge moment for them, they are still continuing the drama. There's a specificity to the way that these two feel queer, that I have noticed that every person who grew up with some of the Knowing, as I call it, feels so intensely about these two boys.

Mor

I'm nodding so hard over here I'm surprised I haven't lost my head at this point. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes to everything you said. The sheer magnetism of their connection, that's really one of my biggest takeaways from this show. Not only the authenticity, but just how much Billkin and PP's chemistry and their talent as actors, how they were able to really, ah, just make that experience that is so true, it's so true to my experience as a queer person who definitely had the Knowing from a very young age... and had a lot of of moments like that where it just felt like, ‘what, I think there's something here, you know it, I know it, I think we both know it’ — it's hard to put it into words, but they just captured it so beautifully, so brilliantly. It took me back. 

It was so accurate that it made me remember little moments, tiny little moments in my past that weren't so little in the moment, they were really big when I was, you know, ten, eleven, twelve, falling for a girl for the first time. That's part of what made it so special for me is how it really took me back to those times, and in a healing way.

Ben

Captain Hands.

Captain Hands

I was just thinking about, in the opposite sense of like, I did not at least acknowledge my queerness until I was in my early 20s? But like, definitely grew up feeling very different from people around me and like, lonely compared to people around me, for like reasons I could not explain at the time? And so like, seeing Teh have to go through and process his own queerness because it is not something that has occurred to him before, was something that I took so strongly to. I relate so hard right now in my life to the identity narratives, because it took me so long to kind of parse through what my identities are, and to like, get comfortable with them. And so seeing Teh’s kind of like, ‘can I even like boys?’ moments, that is something that was really fun for me to watch, again with like the circling, like he has no clue [laughs] what's going on in his life and he is just circling and circling and circling until he kind of comes to a point that he can connect to, and then he'll kind of run off in that direction.

50:07 - Why Do You Care So Much About ITSAY?

Ben

Final question for everyone: Why do you care so much about ITSAY? Aiden.

Aiden

I care about it because, for one it is authentic queer representation on a level that I had very rarely seen on screen — both in Thai media and and just in general. It's very true to life for a wide variety of queer people. But also I am passionate about it because of the way that it drove Thai media as a whole forward to a profound degree — but especially the QL genre. It showed unarguably that there was a market for high quality productions, and the industry reacted by broadening their offerings accordingly. Many of the Thai shows that I love most from the past couple of years clearly echo back to ITSAY in specific aspects, and there will be untold echoes that continue radiating forward from here, in a good way.

Ben

Thank you, Aiden. Captain Hands.

Captain Hands

ITSAY to me is a foundational queer show. Mostly because queer characters are allowed to be complex, three-dimensional and frustrating. If anybody from Tumblr is listening to this podcast, which I know you are, the for, by, and about queer thing is something that I've been looking at a lot as I've been watching more stuff, and this is very much all three, right? Because they're letting these characters make mistakes, and like hurt people that they care about in their quest to better understand themselves? They are allowed to be human, which is like a wild concept in a lot of the like earlier BL shows, it's part of why I don't like it personally when people say that ITSAY's not a BL, because like, why can't BL's be high quality with like, really good structure and story right? Like I don't think that it's fair to just be like, oh this doesn't count as a BL because of like the, the production itself. 

And I think that just the emotional, like honesty and vulnerability that the script and the actors like showed throughout this process, really struck deep in my experiences figuring out like my own identity? There's such a commitment to everything and everybody in the show that I really liked. Watching the documentaries. I just love how much of the emotionally safe space it felt like, seeing how often the director himself was crying watching these scenes? Or like, how they would kind of wind up these these crying scenes by like, I remember like, PP being rocked back and forth in a hug by the director in the position that he's going to be in when he hugs Bas crying at the end of, what is it, episode 4 or part of episode 5 when Bas is like, go comfort Teh? All of these moments that like really show that the cast and the crew support each other, and like trust in each other… there is so much time and effort put into this show, and that is part of why I like it so much, is like you can tell how much care every aspect of this show was given.

Ben

Thank you, Captain Hands. Turtles?

Turtles

ITSAY for me reaches an echelon that only a very few Thai BLs have done for me by way of really balancing out an homage, a love letter to the culture that, that it's celebrating, along with what Aiden and Captain Hands have said so far regarding queer representation, and just hit a really incredible artistic balance experimented with with cinematic form and this serialized kind of publication way. Captain Hands, to your point about the argument about if it's a BL or if it's not a BL, one thing that I've been considering quite a bit in conversations, particularly with neuroticbookworm, has been whether or not ITSAY would have been more successful as a movie. And I've thought more about it and I think that, while there may be an answer to that that's separate from what I will say here — which is that I think it was really groundbreaking that they took this incredible idea and artistic vision and put it in serialized form, and experimented with what had been concretely developed as a serialized BL genre, and played in that sandbox. 

So taking all of that together, taking all of those maybe slightly even risky decisions rooting this show in a particular voice of a culture that we hadn't seen highlighted quite in as explosive of a way as ITSAY being rooted in Phuket was, along with its gorgeous depiction of queer revelation, of queer realization. Just all of that combined into one pot of a show really blows me away. 

My watching experience of it — it took me out, I couldn't multitask, I had to take all of your guys' advice and watch one episode at a time, and no show has done that for me. And so that, that's what I'll take away from it. A unique experience, unlike anything else that I ever experienced watching a Thai BL.

Ben

Before I move to Mor, I just have to say: Absolutely not! This should not have been a movie! I have watched a lot of goddamn movies. We deserved all of the time [laughs] that ITSAY gave us on this story. It would have felt so rushed if they tried to force this shit into two goddamn hours! Yeah! No! No. [Ben bangs the table] There's the table slamming. [laughs]

Turtles

Bartender, get him another drink!

Ben

I have drank like three-quarters of a bottle of wine, so, I'm sorry.

Turtles

Get him some pasta. [laughs]

Ben

[laughs] All right, sorry. This is about you all, not about me. Bestie in Christ, Mor!

Mor

[laughs] That was fantastic, thank you. I was bangin’ my desk over here like yessss, preach, take me to church! I am here to receive.

Ben

Why do you care so much about ITSAY?

Mor

Ohhh boy. A core memory for me from the last couple of years is sitting shell-shocked, absolutely shell-shocked on my couch, silently weeping, watching the credits of ITSAY roll for the first time. Truly just unable to move for probably ten, fifteen minutes, just trying to absorb everything that I just witnessed? And all I could think was, ‘things are different now.’ Truly, that was my reaction to it, I mean, this show? It wasn't made to fulfill a trope. It wasn't made to fill a time slot. It was made to show the tender beautiful humanity that is at the core of all love stories, regardless of the gender of the person you fall in love with, and that's just not something that I can say for a lot of other BLs, or shows period? Not that they don't stand on their own two feet for all sorts of other reasons, but it's something that set ITSAY forever apart for me. Not only that that was clearly their goal, but in how beautifully they achieved it, how perfectly in my opinion they achieved it. 

It was so realistic to my experience as a queer person, but it's also a show that I would feel very comfortable showing to someone who had no experience with the BL genre. Because you don't have to have any. You don't have to have an appreciation for it. You just have to be a person. You just have to be a human who has lived through tough human things, and had relationships, to find so much value, so much to relate to. I don't know how you can watch ITSAY and not have it just reverberate with you on some personal level. Whenever I discuss it with people, just like we've been doing tonight, I'm hearing things that even being — practically a priestess of ITSAY I feel like at this point — even with that I'm hearing things that I hadn't thought of before. And I think that's beautiful, that a show can be so elevated, and done so well that people from all walks of life can come to it, and come away with things that are just so true and accurate to their experience, and you learn things by hearing it, you know, hearing from them. But yeah it was so realistic to my experience as a queer person, while also giving a happily ever after, which was beautiful but it was also very hard won, which made it even more beautiful for me. The characters are real, they are flawed, but they figure it out… gives hope for the rest of us. [laughs] It raised production values. It raised the bar on what a BL can be. 

We did touch on a little bit about people debating whether or not ITSAY is a BL and I just have to say, whenever I'm debating anything I go to the source. And it was I believe a Teen Vogue article that BKPP were interviewed for: they both referred to the show as a BL, so have the writers, so has the crew, and if they are comfortable with addressing it as that, so am I. 

And then on a more personal note, it introduced me to BKPP my beloveds, to some of my best online friends, it got me halfway around the world to Thailand. Overall, it's an artistic and technical triumph as much it is is queer storytelling at its finest, it did everything it needed to in all the ways that it mattered, it moved me, it continues to, in a way that not much media ever has. It's got my whole heart and I could probably find something new to marvel about, you know, forever. It's as complicated and as, as simple as that for me

Ben

Thank you, Mor. I have been watching queer cinema for a very long time. Part of why ITSAY is so important to me, is no other piece of media has so consistently generated such strong visceral reactions. There's so many great pieces that you can pull out for people that many of them haven't seen, but there's something about ITSAY, where if you are aware of it at all, if you even heard its name, you know something about it, and have an opinion about it, whether you've watched it or not. And I also feel so strongly about watching Thai queer people talk so frankly about how they also had the same sort of visceral experiences that the rest of us had. 

What also matters for me about this show is, like we've had some interesting moments in the west: like Moonlight, Call Me By Your Name, other queer movies that have released, and we keep waiting for their impact to hit the rest of us. We felt the impact of ITSAY within a year of it releasing? ITSAY immediately impacted Korea's willingness to participate in BL, despite how conservative their film industry is. Japan re-upped their efforts on the genre… and GMMTV responding to that! We felt it all throughout late ‘21 early ‘22. It is so rare that you can point to a work that genuinely changed the way an entire genre functioned? And also really rare that you can feel that impact in its time. 

And with that: thank you all for joining us on this first clown panel of The Conversation! If there's anything you want to say to the people before we go?

Turtles

I just want to say what an honor it was to be invited on this. I love loving BLs and I love loving BLs along with you all.

Ben

Captain Hands.

Captain Hands

Sorry if we weren't as funny as David.

Ben

[laughs] That's impossible. He's an unhinged 45-year-old gay man. Aiden?

Aiden

One last thought that came up: ITSAY has this level of radical compassion for every single character on the screen, and that helps the viewer to have compassion even if they may be homophobic or unfamiliar, it brings a level of love and care to those characters, in a way that we really don't get, and I have high hopes that it's something that's going to be repeated again as we move forward.

Ben

Mor, any other closing thoughts?

Mor

Oh man, I don't know, I'm just all caught up in the ITSAY wave of feels, as I, as I tend to do. This show has a unique way of shutting down my logical brain and just making me feel all the things, which is what good art should do, dammit, it really should. So, it's doing its job. 

Go watch ITSAY! If y'all are listening to this and you haven't, what are you doing? Come on.

Ben

It's been three years, if you haven't watched it since 2020, go watch it again. It holds up. It's still good.

1:04:08 - Outro

Ben

And we're back. Fun fact for all of you: Nini's setup went completely to shit while we were recording, so she had no idea what the hell we were talking about. For the entire recording we're having to text her updates so she doesn't close down the recording booth. So, Nini is now reacting from post, not from the panel. 

Nini

[laughs] Yeah, it was a very interesting experience editing the panel not having heard a word that you guys said, so it was all brand new to me. That is a very new experience for me. 

Ben

She edited out all of the “Nini can't stop me because she's not here.” [both laugh]

Nini

Oh god, no, but it was really delightful. I had a really good time. I had a really hard time editing the panel, but there's some things that you guys brought up that really sort of tickled my brain, and I wanted to get into them while I was talking to you in the afters. 

Captain Hands made some comments on why Teh teaching Oh Chinese, with Chinese being Teh’s comfort language of expression, why that matters, and how the translation scene on the side of Promthep Cape plays into that. I found that was really interesting because that is new thinking for me, after three years and countless rewatches of this show I didn't think that there could be something about it that I hadn't thought about, or that was new to me, but thinking about Chinese as Teh’s comfort language—as his main language of expression. That brought up a whole new set of things to me in their relationship.

Ben

I have a couple of friends locally whose parents have immigrated from Taiwan, and they talk about how they have probably like a kindergartener's understanding of the language sometimes, and I hadn't thought about how Teh wasn't learning Chinese for the first time—that he may have had some familiarity from growing up around his mom. That was a fresh thought that I had coming out of the panel.

Nini

It just adds a little bit more color to what exactly Teh was doing in that class, what he was doing tutoring Oh-aew. How hard he worked to make sure that Oh-aew could understand him, because Teh is not great at expression, but the few times that he manages to express himself very clearly to Oh-aew it is in Chinese. Using the Chinese flashcards on the boat, writing and rewriting words in Chinese in his notebook. That's how he's able to get his points across to Oh-aew, and he can only do that because he's taught Oh-aew how to understand him. I found that was a really good observation. 

You made an observation as well that I really enjoyed about tourist places as safe spaces when you are from a tourist place, that going to do tourist things actually gives you a certain amount of anonymity that you wouldn't normally get. 

Ben

Some of the normal spaces like cafes, malls, etc. are populated by people that you would run into, but, like, locals are not going on a swamp tour. And so, you can get away with things that you might not elsewhere. Like, I think about the fact that Promthep Cape is a really popular tourist location, and the fact that when they were actually filming that scene very kind tourists stayed out of the camera, but were like two meters sometimes away from the boys while they're recording one of the most pivotal scenes of the series. And that's kind of what it's like when you're in tourist places in your hometown. Like there's a bunch of strangers crowding around you, and it doesn't matter if they hear you say something because they don't know any of your people.

Nini

One thing that Aiden brought forward that I really wanted to delve into myself: Aiden talked about visual style and how ITSAY allowed things to look grungy, and things to look worn, and things to look old, and things to look a little bit dirty; and how that contrasted against the previous BL impulse for everything to be bright and clean and shiny. And one of the things that made me think about from my own experience, how upset—I don't know if ‘upset’ is the term—people tend to get from my home country when my home country is portrayed outside as anything other than bright and shiny and clean and modern. There's that whole pressure to look a certain way to the outside world, and that comes through in our media as well. 

So watching that impulse sort of come through in Thai media, and then being sort of broken by this particular production. I always like when I'm watching media from other places when I can see the points of connection between my culture and another culture, between my home and another person's home, that always makes me feel more grounded in the story, even though it's a culture and a place that might be 180 degrees away from me. You can still find those very human points of connection. I really enjoyed that. 

Here's one that I want to ask you. You talked towards the end of the panel about Oh and The Knowing, and you've brought up The Knowing over and over again recently, and it's something that I've really been sitting with as you've explained certain things in your life and certain things in queer life, and one of the things that struck me listening to the panel that I think hadn't struck me before is that Oh Knows. Oh has The Knowing, but Teh also knows about Oh because Teh has a complete lack of surprise when Oh tells him that he likes Bas. He doesn't even register it as, like, a surprising thing. So Teh also has a Knowing about Oh but not about himself. I found that a really interesting juxtaposition.

Ben

Teh is an actor who's masking all the time. I think he was probably a little bit surprised, but when Oh tells him that secret, Teh's only goal is to desperately reconnect with Oh. So, I don't think in that moment he cares about Oh being queer. Like, Teh’s so stupid. He's not like paying attention to that sort of stuff. He only cares about Oh not shoving him away at that moment. Like, it didn't really matter what that secret was because he was going to respond positively.

Nini

I get that, but as the time goes on, we don't see any reaction from Teh about it, which is not the reaction that I would expect a teenage boy to have.

Ben

[sighs] When it comes to Teh, he's always performing. It's possible that he already knew these things, but I get the sense that he compartmentalizes. Like, a big part of it for Teh was he doesn't want to talk about it. Because talking about it makes it real, and then he has to face the reality of it. Like, that's what happens after the underwater kiss scene is Oh wants to talk about it and Teh really, really doesn't want to talk about it. It's possible that he knew, but because he's been away from Oh and so repressed, it's not eating at him.

Nini

I'll sit with that.

Ben

Teh doesn't act like he knew, but it's very clear that Oh was important to him, and he had to rapidly come to terms with those feelings.

Nini

I think it's pretty clear that Teh didn't know about himself. It's pretty clear that his journey I Told Sunset About You is a journey of understanding things that he didn't know and understand about himself.

Ben

Part of why I like that so much of Teh's journey is unspoken is it allows it to be more universal because it lets the audience at large take from Teh what they need and project into him what they're bringing to the scene, and this works out really well for Oh a lot, too, because Oh does so much with just looking at Teh.

There's some really great dialogue in the translations of this show, but there's a phenomenal amount of amazing work done from what isn't said, and that is one of my favorite things about it.

Nini

I also agree that one of the great things about ITSAY is how much is done in the silences and it's so interesting that you talked about the silences being something that the audience can project whatever they want onto and that being part of ITSAY’s success, because it's also in a way so legible. 

Normally when there's space like that for the audience to project onto we get all kinds of wild shit, like I’m just gonna be real with you. But the silences and the way that these two boys acted were so legible that even though there was all this silence between them, for all this space for the audience to project into, they generally projected what I think the creators intended because the reads were largely consistent in terms of how people were taking it in and how they were reading things.

Ben

I do think so, but a big part of that is how simple ITSAY’s story is. It's a very straightforward coming of age story in a lot of ways. That's why it works! Everything about ITSAY is inherently familiar, and it feels like an experience that people can enjoy again a decade, two, three decades from now. It's one of those classics you can go back and look at and you can probably point at where other projects referred back to it. 

I feel like I Told Sunset About You is going to be one of those projects where the future of queer coming-of-age cinema is going to refer back to it as one of its seminal moments.

Nini

So all that said, if we had to write at this point… an ode to ITSAY as our closing remarks on this retrospective, what would be your ode?

Ben

ITSAY is the best show that has ever existed because it is called I Told Sunset About You. It sets up this huge drama about running to the cape together before sunset, and they make it to the cape at sunset. Oh has this incredible breakdown and just says “I don't care what we're going to be to each other, just please don't leave me again,” and Teh, upending decades of genre history and expectation, says, “If I can be anything, can I be your boyfriend?” and old wounds finally closed in my heart.

Nini

Well, that is an ode. I don't think I could be anywhere as poetic as you about it, but what I will say is that this story touched something very deep inside me. I can't imagine not having seen this. I can't imagine where I would be now if I hadn't seen this. It changed things for me in a lot of ways, and that's one of my highest praises for media. If you change things for me, if you make me look at things differently, you've won. So, that's my ode to ITSAY: you won.

And with that we're gonna wrap this one up. Our next episode will be our Last Twilight in Phuket discussion. Ben and I are going to sit down and jaw about that a little bit, and then we will be introducing a fresh new panel and talking about I Promised You the Moon.

So look out for that. We out. Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace.

[shortpplfedup]

Chapter 7: My Heart Represents the Moon

Wrecked. This show has absolutely fucking wrecked me. Like...ITSAY/IPYTM-level wrecked. I'm never going to recover. Jam comes to town, and Ms. Hong departs in the absolute saddest episode of the entire series, yet you're still left with a sense of hope amidst the wreckage.

Khaotung motherfucking Thanawat y'all. Gaipa gives us the full range of human emotion this week, from joking with Leng about how he feels sad for Jim losing out on him, to having a full on breakdown as he sings 'The Moon Represents My Heart' at Ms. Hong's cremation. I absolutely knew how talented Khaotung is, but honestly he blew me away this episode. You could feel the layers of sadness as Ms. Hong's sudden death piles up on top of Jim's rejection. The moment Gaipa comes out of the hospital room to tell Jim, Leng and Li Ming that Ms. Hong is gone...I don't think I've ever seen a more accurate depiction of that kind of moment in all of cinema. The way he can't even comprehend it, then can't say it, then it tumbles out and he just crumples...honestly every time I was on the verge of being okay Gaipa would break down again and I would be in shambles. I don't go in much for hyperbole so when I tell you that this is an award-winning performance, know how sincerely I mean that.

Jam's unannounced arrival stirs all kinds of pots over at Jim's house, as Jim finally decides to discuss the New Year's kiss he witnessed with Li Ming at the worst possible time and in the worst possible way, not knowing Jam was there and could hear them. Jim's struggle to accept Li Ming's sexuality is threaded throughout the episode. Jim and Li Ming (of course) fight about it. Then Jim tries to discuss it with Jam calmly but of course that's a fraught conversation because Jam's comments about his own sexuality live rent-free in Jim's head, along with the ghost of Beam's betrayal. Jim eventually seeks Wen's advice, which is a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig step forward for him, and of course Wen gently chides him, telling him literally all the things he already knows intellectually but doesn't feel emotionally: that Li Ming being gay isn't a bad thing, that Li Ming isn't gay because of Jim's influence, and that yes, the world might be harder on him because he's gay, but that doesn't mean he can't have a good life. Eventually, Jim and Li Ming settle into a new normal where Jim can tease Li Ming about 'trying' Heart and liking him, and Li Ming can tease Jim back about minding his own business.

The other pot Jam stirs is Li Ming's very presence at Jim's house, as she wants to take him back north with her. Whether Li Ming came to live with Jim before Beam died or after I'm not sure (he may have been with his grandparents before coming to Jim, he mentioned living apart from his mother for '5 or 6 years' and Beam only died 4 years ago), but he's been with Jim for years at this point. Jim has essentially been the one raising him. But Jam's stable now, she's about to get married, to a man with some means, and she wants to try to be a mother again and provide for her son. Jim, surprisingly, tries asking Li Ming what he wants rather than telling him what it's going to be, and the ensuing conversation is a new direction for them, a first stab at a new kind of communication. And we discover that as much as he and Jim fight and argue, Li Ming is clear about who he considers as his parent. As he tells Jim, he's not sure how he feels about his mother, but he knows he loves his uncle.

Jim continues his softening and opening up to Wen, essentially admitting to him that he wants him around, but he's still not quite sure of what that means for them in the future. That sniff kiss Jim gives Wen, aside from somehow being the hottest sniff kiss I've ever seen, is a promise of a kind; it says 'give me time, but yes'.

Side Dishes

I know that Alan/Gaipa scene will make a lot of folks happy.

Alan releasing Wen from the responsibility of taking care of him was hard to watch. He's so sad, and seeing Wen immediately meet Jim as he drives away makes him even sadder. Awww, you'll be ok Alan!

Ms. Hong seems to have left Gaipa a very rich man. I think I have some idea of what he's going to do with that.

Heart's parents finally starting to learn sign...they're trying to make amends and reconnect with their son, and Heart seems to be really happy about that.

Li Ming not making the slightest move to help his mom with her bag at any point was a clear indication of his feelings.

Li Ming not understanding how his mom could have loved his dad and also love her new husband, because she loves them differently is so perfectly, preciously young of him.

So Beam's parents stole everything Jim had except the damn car after Beam's death, and they could do that because Jim had no legal protections as Beam's partner, and Beam put nothing in place for him. He LITERALLY had to start from scratch when Beam died. I think we've finally found some villains in this piece. Also Thai BL continues its marriage equality push.

Jim is FINALLY gonna close that damn diner and I'm happy and sad at the same time. Him deciding not to buy the place and also cancelling the lease is him finally taking a step forward into his life after Beam.

Finale tomorrow! What the hell am I gonna do when this show is over?

[ranchthoughts]

Inspired by a few people who have done this hi @wen-kexing-apologist and @justafriend-ql (and because I love organization):

Ranch's Thoughts

(aka, a meta roundup)

Meta 2023 Wrapped

GMMTV Multiverse

In which I attempt to untangle all the various universes in which GMMTV shows are set. An ongoing battle, so stay tuned for updates. My GMMTV multiverse posts can be found here, and my kissing chart posts can be found here.

Old Masterpost

Latest: The Multiverse so far, reorganized

Original GMMTV Multiverse Map post

Latest GMMTV Multiverse map

Kissing Multiverse: version 1, version 2, version 3

Latest Kissing Multiverse

ATOTS X Bad Buddy Our Skyy 2

Thinking about Snow White being the engineering play: parts 1, 2, and 3

Bad Buddy

Thinking about Bad Buddy and the (un)intentionality of seme/uke dynamics

Thoughts on genre, tropes, Bad Buddy, and My School President (aka, my Bad Buddy and MSP trope subversion thesis)

Wai as a faen fatale: a defense (in conversation with @chickenstrangers)

An analysis of the Baseball Mom shirt, Bad Buddy episode 5

Thinking of Pat and Pran, and genre awareness

Thinking about Bad Buddy, and prequels, and tragedies

An impassioned defense of the episode 5 rooftop kiss, aka the Rooftop Kiss and Dichotomies

Thinking about Pran's "Pat, you've got to stop doing this to me" (in conversation with @dudeyuri)

Pat, Pran, and pursuit (in conversation with @dudeyuri)

Thinking about Pat, Pran, and competition (in conversation with @dimplesandfierceeyes)

My School President

Thoughts on Tinn, his mother, and coming out

More thoughts on Tinn, his mother, and coming out

Thoughts on Tinn, music, Gun, and his mother

The Good Place and MSP: Pacing and Narrative Structure

Thinking about MSP and how it shows us that imagination and theory are not the same as real life

MSP and the relief of a sweet show

Thoughts on genre, tropes, Bad Buddy, and My School President (aka, my Bad Buddy and MSP trope subversion thesis)

Thoughts on the MSP ep.11 Chinzhilla fight scene

The Eighth Sense

The Eighth Sense and hazy cinematography

The Eighth Sense and missing pieces

The Eclipse

The Eclipse, repression, and self-knowledge

He's Coming to Me

"If you know how it's going to end, why start anything" as explored in HCTM and Bad Buddy (in conversation with @waitmyturtles)

Kieta Hatsukoi

Thinking about Aoki and Ida and how differently they think (in conversation with @chickenstrangers)

I Told Sunset About You

Conversations in ITSAY that are about more than they seem: Teh and Oh-aew floating

ITSAY is about: noses, backs, knees, and chests

Only Friends

Going to collect some of the OF ephemerality/voyeurism/control/trust, etc. posts I have written here for my own easier reference

Thoughts on ephemerality, permanence, YOLO, and photography post Ep. 2 (additions on photography by @chickenstrangers and @lurkingshan)

Where we are headed post Ep. 3 (with surveillance and voyeurism additions by @lurkingshan, @waitmyturtles and @slayerkitty)

Photography and audio/video in the series, as of Ep. 3

Boston's Manipulations - a study of two scenes in Ep. 3

Manipulate, Mansplain, Manwhore, Manslaughter: Ray confronting Boston, ep. 6

The Mundanity of Meanness

My series cataloguing moments of ephemerality/permanence/YOLO/photography/voyeurism/control/hypocrisy/accountability etc. in Only Friends: ep. 3, ep. 4, ep. 5, ep. 6, ep. 7, ep. 8, ep. 9, ep. 10, ep. 11, ep. 12

and then of course the collection of everyone's thoughts, which got updated weekly.

3 Will Be Free

Opposing Triads

Between Us

Thoughts on Win's rock shirt

Miscellaneous

Signs, symbols, icons, indexes, genre, and BL

[porridgefeast]

ITSAY/IPYTM thoughts

In three parts because that's how I wrote it.

Oh-aew in a shirt which seems like the most meta English t-shirt text ever in Thai BL(ish) world (and there have been many others) but also seems like something Oh-aew would somehow own.

Part 1

I wasn’t assuming I’d have a ton to say about I Told Sunset About You. I wasn’t even planning on starting it at the particular moment I did, I just had it in mind I’d do so soonish. But wow, this drama hit me like a ton of bricks.

I tend to enjoy it when there’s a small gesture or moment onscreen that brings me back to uncertain romantic moments of young adulthood. Oddly enough, it’s often how someone leans (not kabedon-ish looming fwiw)—make of that what you will. (There’s this one moment in Between Us that hit me with something I can only describe as the world’s hardest pang.) But yikes, having so many... I guess first love feelings come up so hard and fast is really unusual and compelling, but almost too powerful for a sensitive creature such as myself. It’s certainly beautiful in an important way I think art is meant to be beautiful. But it’s less uncomplicatedly enjoyable than some things.

I don’t always have to identify with one character over another, even if one character is positioned as the protagonist of a story. I don’t always identify with anybody, though certain stories will pull me in in that way. But man, ITSAY gives me vertigo. Teh’s paradoxical mixture of obvious feeling and self-conscious reserve might normally make it so I’d be seeing things firmly from his perspective, but instead I whip back and forth between Teh and Oh in a borderline-painful way. I guess I just want so badly for them not to hurt each other.

Billkin’s left eyebrow jiggles like even Teh’s face is fidgeting nervously. At the point I’m currently at in the series, it feels like this kid is going to explode leaving only a fine mist. PP Krit is so still as Oh that it’s at least momentarily tempting to perceive him as solid, confident. But his steadiness is one of watching and waiting SO intently.

I feel like I could write an essay about the blinking alone, much less the overall category of looking. I don’t especially want to write it, but it’s there.

About midway through episode 2 I found myself kind of relieved to confirm there are only five episodes. I wanted to hurry through those most acute push & pull moments. But here I am at the beginning of episode 4 and it feels like it’s been a dang eternity.

Part 2

Back again after ending ITSAY and getting 4 1/2 episodes into IPYTM. I’m not writing about this show because I decided to do so, but because I don’t seem to have a choice. Not that I wouldn’t choose to do so, it’s just moot.

I think I’ve finally put into possibly inadequate words a thing Billkin does a lot as Teh. Sometimes his face just kind of goes... offline. He’s telegraphing despair while his face settles into a stiff mask. I find it a lot more true to life than what many actors do in similar scenes, but also very relatable in a way that’s painful! Again, in an art way. In a way that puts into practice the fact that we don’t only watch and read stories to pass time but because they help us understand ourselves. But part of me is annoyed, like a kid who’s been told to get in the car only to find they’re being taken someplace totally unforeseen and unappealing.

I find myself not wanting to explain what PP Krit is doing as much, but not because what he’s doing is less carefully crafted, certainly not because it’s less affecting. I said earlier that I was bouncing back and forth between identifying with each of them but not long after that first note of mine I stopped being able to identify with Teh very much. It might be a stretch to relate the events of this show too much to an experience of my own, but I was probably the Oh-aew in my first serious relationship, which was a very long one that was completely tied up with my entire college experience and a long first stage of adulthood.

I don’t judge Teh too harshly, but he just seems SO young. Like, younger than I may ever have been. Part of what makes this show good at what it does is that I don’t quite know what’s going on with him a lot of the time. There’s certainly a part of me that wants someone to explain what goes on in his head, but the ambiguity works for this show’s narrative style.

Maybe this will become more apparent, but am I supposed to have a strong conviction as to what Jai’s deal has been? Because that guy seems determined to give some of the most intense mixed signals I’ve ever witnessed. I feel like the director was going okay in this shot you’re in love with Teh. Okay now in this scene you feel like Teh’s kinda gross.

Honestly Teh is super gross! Billkin is a cute kid and Teh has many endearing qualities but he is a MESS. About half the time (well, half the time we see him onscreen, who knows what he does during time-jumps) the kid is barfing feelings like No-face from Spirited Away after he’s eaten nearly everybody who works at the spirit bathhouse.

I strongly suspect these characters and performances would bring up different things for people other than myself. This show is taking my personal buttons and stomping on them; presumably for others it stomps on slightly different or even opposite buttons, and for others it might trigger very little whatsoever of their own personal baggage.

Well, back to it I suppose.

Part 3

I feel less urgency now that I’ve reached the end point of the two series. Which is good for me but it means I have less to say at this point.

I’m very curious as to how a rewatch of these two series would feel to me. At first I thought a rewatch might be great—often that way I can relax and appreciate things more, since I’m not distracted by suspense as much. But I could just as easily wind up dreading certain moments. So many public scenes, yall. So much shame being experienced!

I would like to take a short moment to appreciate Hoon. His mom-pleasing powers may have complicated things for Teh, but it was such a relief to me that he was a sweetheart and a good brother.

I’m glad there’s a happy ending but I’m relieved Oh-aew got several chances to be resentful. (Not that I would have been unhappy with some less-than-happy endings. Too happy an ending would have been odd tonally anyway for this show.) I’m pretty sure I laughed out loud when Oh-aew was like but this time if you have a problem can you tell me and we can talk about it?

I was so glad Tarn got a little cameo at the end. It felt like giving her her due. Recognizing how that moment made me feel makes me realize how much I appreciate Tarn having interiority and agency as a character.

In other news, maybe I’m now one step closer to being able to see Na Naphat onscreen without immediately thinking of him as Tawan from Kinnporsche. And usually saying “f*cking Tawan!” in my head. It hasn’t happened yet, but I hope to get there. I’m sorry Na Naphat, I guess that performance was almost too good.

[technicallyverycowboy]

Top 5 BL scenes/moments? 👀💕

OKAY as soon as i sat down to think about this my brain immediately went "we have never watched one single show in our life" so it took me a couple days to mull it over. in no particular order (behind a cut because i got wordy and needed to include illustrative screencaps)

moonlight chicken - uncle jim pulling out that ear bite move on wen

for my money i think moonlight chicken is gmmtv at its best, in no small part because it's about two grown adults and has a much tighter 8 episode run. (my only real qualm is believing that earth, whomst was 29, was meant to be almost 40. drop the skincare routine, loong jim, the people need to know.)

so much of the show is about longing -- for people and places and times that are gone -- and this scene cashes in so well on the seven previous episodes of growing tension and comfort between jim and wen. you can't always get what you want but, like, sometimes you do and it's fuckin' great.

2. bed friends - king fully laying on top of uea after banging

obviously the cat sex scene was a close, close second to this, because i very much do often think about king's rapturous expression when he tells uea that he really does look like a cat. chase your bliss, king.

but something about the intimacy of this moment burned itself into my brain. it's partially the implication that uea was getting fucked from behind (which pretty much never happens in bls) and partially the bone deep satisfaction they're both radiating. most fade to black sex scenes don't really convince me the characters did fuck in the pause, but this one 100% did.

3. playboyy - nont putting prom in his place

OKAY truly i could have put the vast majority of the six aired episodes of the show so far and it would have been true. soong and first in the pool throwing cash around. zouey and teena's painting thing. phob and nuth's wildly romantic in an "i'm in danger" way sex scenes.

but i came back to this one because it was the moment when i felt like the show clicked a piece solidly into place. nont isn't nant and he's done pretending that he is. prom does not get to act like he knows nont and he does not get to tell nont what to do. this little exchange did so much to get me really interested in both these characters. prom's face journey from annoyed to so hard he might pass out is fuckin' divine.

4. only friends - top and boston

only friends made many, many mistakes and i won't relitigate them here. still, when episode 3 came out, my expectations were solid and there was a lot of promise in what we'd seen so far.

everything about this sex scene is fucking perfect. the fucked up relationship between boston and top. nick listening. the three second shot of boston blowing top. force and neo put their whole pussies into this and delivered.

5. i told sunset about you - a tie between teh and oh-aew's first time really touching each other and oh-aew trying on the red bra after teh shoots him down

this entire sequence -- after they've sat downstairs inching closer together on the couch -- is one of the most erotic things i've ever seen in any media. and literally nothing happens but them sitting together while teh runs his hands all over oh-aew.

there's so little dialogue here; the incredible longing they're both feeling is 100% told through their expressions and the way they touch each other. the first time i watched it, i probably replayed this scene four or five times. nothing has ever captured what it's like to really, really want someone for the first time, when it's the most consuming feeling you've ever had.

a gifset of this scene is actually what made me decide to sit down and watch itsay in the first place. pp krit is great in all of the show, but this moment of a particularly queer expression of heartbreak is devastating every single time i watch it.

"if i was x, someone would love me," is such a common refrain when you're queer. watching oh-aew go through that imagining if he was a girl and teh could actually like him back in the daylight broke my fuckin' heart. (i also think it's a really lovely way to foreshadow oh-aew being told he's not manly enough for acting later on.)

[gunsatthaphan]

~ I Told Sunset About You: Filming Locations ~ 

As you might or might not know, I spent the last 1.5 months in Phuket and travelled to some of the main itsay filming locations (and almost collapsed from the heat lmao rip). Most of the buildings are a little more run down now but I was still overwhelmed by how beautiful they all are and I wanted to share some of them. I tried taking the photos in the most accurate way possible and adjusted them the best I could. I’m not a photographer though so please don’t judge too hard lol; also since the linetv & nadao shutdown, I was only able to find the episodes in SD, hence the crappy quality of the screencaps. sorry. 

Part 1: Phuket Town

1. Teh’s family restaurant (โกปี่เตี่ยม)

2. Phuket Old Town Café (มือเยี่ยม)

3. Sangtham Shrine (定光堂)

4. Chinese Tuition School

5. The Memory at On On Hotel

~ to be continued in part 2! ~ 

[bl-inded]

2022 BL Wrap-up

As a disclaimer, I’m still a relatively new BL watcher. So a lot of the classics that have come into my radar are something that I haven’t watched yet (including ITSAY and I watched UWMA only very recently). This is just a list of dramas I’ve watched this year and My opinions about them. 

Shows I’ve watched this year 

Completed

Semantic Error (Korean- 2022)

Oh! Boarding House (Korean- 2022)

Light on Me (Korean- 2021)

Bleuming (Korean- 2022)

To My Star (Korean- 2021)

Cherry Blossoms After Winter (Korean- 2022)

My Ride (Thai- 2022)

Cutie Pie (Thai- 2022)

Be Loved in This House: I Do (Taiwanese- 2021)

Love Class (Korean- 2022)

Kieta Hatsukoi (Japanese- 2021)

Star and Sky: Star in my Mind, Sky in my Heart (Thai- 2022)

Plus & Minus (Taiwanese- 2022)

Cupid's Last Wish (Thai- 2022)

You're my Sky (Thai- 2022)

Not Me (Thai- 2021)

Triage (Thai- 2022)

KinnPorche (Thai- 2022)

Vice Versa (Thai- 2022)

The Eclipse (Thai- 2022)

To my Star 2: Our Untold Story (Korean- 2022)

Love in the Air (Thai- 2022)

Ghost Host, Ghost House (Thai- 2022)

Until We Meet Again (Thai- 2019)

My only 12% (Thai- 2022)

Ongoing (still airing)

Between Us (Thai- 7/12 episodes)

My School President (Thai- 4/12 episodes)

Never Let Me Go (Thai- 2/12 episodes)

As I'm listing these down I genuinely forgot I saw half of these this year let alone that most of these were released this year. Isn't time a funny concept.

For the purposes of the next part I'm going to ignore the ongoing BLs

Favourites of the year

Favourite BL: This one has a lot of competition tbh. But if I had to pick one it would be Semantic Error. I had read the manhwa before and I didn't find out about the BL till it started airing. I was pleasantly surprised with a Korean BL coming in with the heat and the sexuality crisis and not to mention Jaechan pushing the smartest marketing ploy to get DKZ relevant (so glad about the rebranding).

Favourite Couple (on screen): Another toughie, but i think i have to give this one to Aye and Akk from The Eclipse. First and Khao did an amazing job. I was soooo excited about Khao's acting debut in a main role since 1000 stars and boy did he deliver.

Favourite Pairing (actors): (side note: i do not ship the actors IRL, I just think their chemistry on and off screen was off the charts good) Fort and Peat. This one is a easy give for me because I didn't even expect to like LITA, the second half of it floored me.

Favourite unexpected pair: I am very late to the game for this one but Korn and Intouch from Until We Meet again win this one. i have seen Kao in Lovely Writer, but it was my first time seeing Earth act. And both of them brought their A game and they are the reason Dean and Pharm's story stands a chance (don't come at me).

Favourite story: Light on Me. I was sleeping on this BL. But in my defence I only watched Thai BLs till this year. Light on me surprised me in so many ways. The gentleness with which they dealt with their feelings, the setting, the awkwardness. It was all just really endearing.

[shannankle]

#5QLS tag

tagged by the oh so lovely @chickenstrangers (<3 <3 <3)

When you get this, list 5 songs from the Asian QL shows that you actually listen to. 🎶They do not have to be custom-made for the series. 🎶Non-western tracks only. Let's support Asian music and languages! 🎶Feel free to tag anyone who may be interested in participating. 🎶Add #5qls tag to your post for others to find the new favourites!

Keina Suda-無垢 (Muku)-Kamisama no Ekohiiki

I love jrock and Keina Suda has such a unique style and voice. It was so nice hearing the song at the end of each episode. Plus it was such a great choice for the show with an upbeat first impression but the chaotic sounds of rock and Keina Suda's emotional almost crying voice. It works so well for the themes and tone of the show.

2. PoLin-蝴蝶 (Butterfly)-DNA Says Love You

A beautiful song for a beautiful show! When I finished watching, I listened to the song over the next week whenever I wanted to recapture the feelings, emotion, and affect of the show. And it's a beautiful song in it's own right!

3. Tulanan Narasetapisarn-หรูเหอ 如何 (Skyline)-I Told Sunset About You

ITSAY is a stunning show and skyline fits so beautifully giving us a strong aesthetic perspective from moment one. I love every version including both Bilkin and PP Krit's, but I go with Tulanan's because it sets up the show so well as a full artistic piece.

4. Moonlight Chicken Cast-The Moon Represents My Heart-Moonlight Chicken

Once again a song that beautifully sets up the tone and artistic perspective of the show. I loved it even more after learning about the song's cultural significance in the chinese diaspora and as a queer love song. If you get a chance go read through some of the many youtube comments, so many different stories about the songs presence and meaning in people's lives. Maybe a month back I was in a nearby city and got to hear a busker perform it on the erhu.

5. HIROBA featuring Ōtsuka Ai-ふたたび (Futatabi)-The End of the World, With You

So pretty, so melancholic and a fantastic ending song for the show.

Okay and a special shout out to Tilly Birds and Jeff Satur who have eaten up a lot of my music listening time since QLs introduced me to them *weeps*

Also as a bonus I thought I'd share another queer Asian artist. They haven't done anything for a QL (though they do have an album called BL), but why not share some other queer Asian artists while I'm at it.

Queen Bee-Impregnable

Okay tagging mutuals who post QL stuff below if you want to participate!

@ablazenqueen @thewayofsubtext @pearlony @synxailla @thepancakelady @lgbtally4ever @africanbarbhie @non-binarypal7 @imminentinertia @maaaar7 @pinkaugustmoon @broidkwhatibedoinganymore @dekaydk @squeakygeeky @tsukki-lovebot @depresseddisasterqueer

Sorry if I missed anyone! If any followers want to join in, consider yourself tagged!

[wen-kexing-apologist]

Late top 5 ask because I just thought of it: 5 shows that you are always down to rewatch

What a great question that is also such a mean and incredibly evil thing to ask me, wen-kexing-apologist, Chronic Rewatcher lmfao

So fun fact I have seen KinnPorsche 14 times, Our Flag Means Death 11 times, The Old Guard 11 times, Heartstopper 11 times, The Eclipse probably 6 times, Bad Buddy and ITSAY 4 times, etc, etc, etc. And those are counting all the times I have watched a show all the way through. This is not counting the number of times I have actively gone back to watch specific episodes or specific scenes.

See the problem is sometimes I hyperfixate and then I just have to watch it until it is out of my system, sometimes an OST pops in to my head and then I get the urge to watch the show again, and sometimes I agree to edit the transcripts for the backlog of @the-conversation-pod and @bengiyo and @shortpplfedup start talking about a show and I'm like "ahhh good times! I should rewatch that!"

So you can imagine the stress I am under. I'll have to do this by category

Show I Am Constantly Rewatching: Bed Friend

gif by @perths

I know what you may be thinking, and yes you are correct I am in this rewatch for Uea's emotional journey. Uea is my sweet summer child, I love him, I have adopted him in to my family, his happiness is my happiness and I love love love watching him go from a quiet, reserved, unhappy character who keeps getting put in unfair situations through no fault of his own in to this confident, vibrant, happy person who is on his way towards healing. Often times it can be hard for me to pick A Favorite thing; a favorite character, a favorite scene because there are so. many. good. ones. But I am constantly, and I mean constantly rewatching the scene in Episode 8 where Uea tells King about his past. I have lost count of how many times I've seen it, no even kidding I watched that scene before I went to bed just last week. I will always always be down to watch that show because I love seeing how far my boy is able to grow with just a little bit of love, care, and therapy.

Show I Would Rewatch for an Instant Mood Boost: If It's With You

gif by @jimmysea

I have a difficult time understanding/feeling emotion in my body unless I abstract it in to fiction. So when I experience strong emotions it is typically when something super happy or super tragic happens on screen, in a book, during my D&D game, etc. One of my absolute favorite things is when something makes me so happy that my body is no longer able to contain it and I have to do the Neurodivergent Hand Flappies(TM). I think I spent 80% of this show grinning so hard it hurt my face and doing the Neurodivergent Hand Flappies because it just...they made me so happy. Amane is so sweet, and he deserves happiness, and he is getting his happiness and he's just full of sunshine and I already rewatched this show like immediately after it finished. This show joins my This Could Fix Me list.

Show I Would Be Down to Rewatch for Emotional Catharsis: Eternal Yesterday

gif by @duckflyfly

I have not rewatched this show...yet. But I want to, and I know that I will eventually. I can only imagine that it is sadder and more evil the second time around. I cried soooo hard over this show. But it is beautiful, and it is healing, and the pain is a good type of aching pain that comes with coming to terms with grief. With acknowledging grief. With finding where the beauty and peace lie within death and memory, and the way its claws dig in to you and leave you changed forever. Ghosts can be warm, and this show makes me warm despite it all.

Show I Would Be Down to Rewatch for Content: I Told Sunset About You/I Promised You the Moon

gif by @thii-nii

I think I am in @shortpplfedup's camp about how you find new things to think about every time you watch this show. I actually desperately, desperately own I Promised You the Moon several rewatches because I have seen ITSAY four times at this point and IPYTM once. I am currently rewatching IPYTM with a friend who is seeing it for the first time, so that should help. But the first time I watched this show I was unable to function to notice anything, and it wasn't until the third time I'd watched ITSAY when I was rewatching it to prepare for the podcast panel, that I finally was able to form any level of coherent analytical thought to it. So I would rewatch this at any point just to see what more I could pull out of it.

Show I Would Be Down to Rewatch But Haven't Yet: 180 Degree Longitude Passes Through Us

gif by @dingyuxi

Bold, based on how intense of a reaction I had to this show, I know. But this was one of my favorites, I never wrote anything about it because I was too busy having a literal mental breakdown over it, one that was so bad I almost had to bail on the entire show with like...20 minutes left of it, and I originally nixed my plan to show it to a friend. BUT I have watched the specific scene that did me in (and only that scene) and it went over fine once I knew to expect it so I do want to watch the whole thing again. I have a friend who I have been forcing to watch BL shows I liked and I watch them with her, and this is on the list. However, I am currently running her through I Promised You The Moon and What Did You Eat Yesterday? Season 2 so this show is still quite a ways out from a rewatch because I am not a total monster and want to give her some modicum of emotional break between those two shows and 180 Degree.

Bonus:

Show I Would Never Rewatch: Enchante

I hate this show truly an unreasonable amount. I hate Theo so much oh my fucking god. I refuse to watch this again and I'm mad that I finished it.

ASK ME MY TOP 5 OF ANYTHING BL

[mommyzhilla]

Bad Buddy and its aftereffects

Disclaimer: this is just going to be a word vomit. Something I had been meaning to do since ages but being down with flu finally gave me the time and mindspace to do it.

My first tryst with Thai BLs started with Love By Chance and I tried.. I really tried.. but the script.. the acting were just not clicking with me.

Then came the wave of 2gether the series and that was much better.. I was at least able to complete watching the first season even though I didnt get the hype around it.. It was my second time giving up..

My third effort was ITSAY and gosh what a show that was.. I was recommending it to anyone who would listen to me gush about Billkin and PP and the director. The show was heavy on my heart.. I needed to brace myself every time I wanted to rewatch it.. I guess I have rewatched it 3 or 4 times in all these years.. It just is that emotionally heavy show for me.

But the music.. Gosh the music.. the songs.. Billkin's voice.. When I tell u Skyline and untold answer were on repeat.. Specially untold answer.. I still listen to it..

Despite my love for ITSAY and my tolerance for IPYTM.. I again took a break from Thai BLs.. and BLs in general..

Throwback to exactly 1 year back.. When I rediscovered thai BLs... let me be specific.. I discovered Bad Buddy..

My first watch.. awesome.. loved it.. listened to the songs a bit..

my bestie then suggested me Not me.. kinnporsche.. eclipse.. liked them all.. and I thought thats it..

But then I rewatched Bad Buddy.. and rewatched it the next time.. and the next.. I was literally rewatching those 12 episodes almost till April and May of this year.. for almost 6 months.. I didnt consume bad buddy.. bad buddy consumed me..

I was watching MSP and never let me go and other BLs too.. but an episode of bad buddy everyday became a need.. and this perplexed me.. I kept on having conversations with my bestie about my obsession with Bad Buddy. This level of obsession.. where I was crying listening to the BGM.. crying over a 3 min trailer.. after watching the show multiple times.. had never happened to me ever..

And apart from all this.. bad buddy was responsible for a couple of firsts for me.. first time joined tumblr.. for bad buddy.. explored ao3 and read way too many pat pran fanfics.. and also made me explore Thai music.. and my spotify wrapped is the proof.. its full of thai songs.. Bad buddy instrumental BGM.. is in my top songs..

I guess the obsession was a consequence of my failed past relationship.. which finally ended right around the time I discovered Bad buddy.. where things were very similar.. I used to call him soulmate.. but family issues made us break up after 10 yrs.. Every time I rewatch ep 11.. where Pat says to Pran that you dont leave me and fight alongside me.. I cry buckets over this one scene.. coz I didnt have anyone to fight alongside me.. may be its that.. may be it was the characters.. may be it was the magic created by p'aof.. but somewhere.. something struck such a cord that the show still has the ability to bring out emotions that I didn't know existed.. I always describe it as emotions bubbling and trying hard to break the wall and spill all over.. thats what I feel.. and sometimes they spill over.. and m left a crying mess.. No other show has made me feel this way.. No other form of media has made me feel this way.

Is the obsession still there? Not as much.. I still love a good patpran fanfic.. My top song is Just friends by Nanon which I listen to this day.. I still cry over the instrumental BGM.. But I no longer have to watch bad buddy every single day..

I dont know how much bad buddy has helped me overcome my past.. but I know its still a safe space I can visit when things get tough.. Funny how a random piece of media can have such an important share in your life.. A random show on the internet can heal you more than the living people around you.

Now that I have talked about it so much.. I may as well watch ep 6 (3/4).. fyi.. that beach scene is my fav..

P.S.. I know there would be typos and errors but I am not going to read it all back else I will not have the courage to post this.

[formayhem]

Thai QL Favorites Tag Game

Tagged by @twig-tea! Thank you!

I've never really talked about my favorite BL/QL ever, and I'm definitely not able to write in depth analysis or think pieces. I do know what I like and appreciate, though. :)

Below the cut I'll say a lot of not profound and probably stupid stuff. Yay. 🥳

Favorite Thai QL:

I Told Sunset About You (special mention to My Only 12%, besides its last episode, and before I finally watched ITSAY)

This really is no surprise, for anyone that may have encountered my posts here and there. My journey in BL is still ongoing, but I watched this one early this year, after spending half a year during 2022 writing it off. In my defense, I wasn't on BL Tumblr back then, and I just took one look at the trailer, and said, "no".

Then ITSAY came to Viki. I distinctly recall texting my friend that I was starting it, telling them I hoped there was something in it for me because it "didn't look like what I like" (I had no idea what I liked in QL series for way too long).

ITSAY wrecked me and surprised me. My viewing was a visceral one that completely and irrevocable transplanted me back into my own youth, causing me to relive falling in love with my best friend in middle school/freshman year, our summers of a love so consequential that I'd think of it in 2023, while watching a series, crying on my couch, and resonating entirely with two boys I'll probably never forget about, either.

Funny how I almost never watched Teh and Oh-aew, because then what series would I write love letters in my head about? It's beautiful to look at, to watch unfold, to listen to, to hear, and to feel.

Favorite Pairing:

Pete & Kao. I think this pairing may always kind of be my favorite for sentimental reasons. And no one wants to read that novel.

Favorite Pairing That Never Came to Pass? Oh, you didn't ask? Well,

Kim & Way from The Shipper because I was so invested in what they had going on, and I will remain forever sad that That's It (even though I sincerely appreciate a bittersweet ending).

Most underrated actor:

Up until recently, I would have said Suar because his work in You're My Sky wounded me. Except La Pluie has happened now, and people really adored his character there.

I also would have said Gawin, but now we have Be My Favorite (which I have yet to start)...

Maybe Fluke Pusit. He's in a lot, but I'd like to see him take a lead in a QL. I just think he has the range, okay. I want to see it.

Favorite Character:

(a 2 part and this will be a trend, clearly)

Teh from ITSAY

Because I am a Teh, through and through. I love how deeply he loves, how brash and thoughtless he is while thinking so deeply almost ALL of the time that he is literally frozen in fear of his present and future. This character is for all the idiots out there with bleeding hearts and who want to make everyone happy and forget what being happy themselves feels like. Cheers.

Mork from My Ride

Mork is just so sincerely GOOD. From the first episode, I admired this character and the warmth and kindness he exhibits. He is just everything decent and sweet in the world, okay?

Favorite Side Character:

Instantly I will say MAE from 3 Will Be Free. I wanted so much more of her story and her time with Tur, and I want to see her HAPPY. I want to see her okay.

And then the 2-part (3, 4 part.. ) not asked for:

I really like all of Mark's side characters (Jedi especially). I like Chot from Step by Step so so very much. I love Cheep and Dej, the uncles from My Ride, and I want to know everything about them.

Favorite Scene in a QL:

I refuse to list an ITSAY scene again (but pretend I have listed every single scene from the series, because I have, mentally).

So, I'll say from You're My Sky, when Vee and Dome sit next to each other, and we get the moving closer, wanting to touch, knowing they shouldn't, to fingers brushing, to pinky holding, all framed from behind, without their faces and so full of ALL the feelings.

Also basically every night scene that exists in Moonlight Chicken, especially thst first drunken night:

And I lied, I will mention ITSAY: Teh and Oh on the floor, under the stairs, and floating on the water. The red bra scene.

The first two scenes have me in a chokehold for their depiction of desire and longing and confusion and shame, the wanting, the running. The floating scene has me in a chokehold because I love how much deeper their conversation in the surface is, when I became more than a casual listener and heard it. I love that it's about their feelings and how they handle them, and the first time I listened, I just really thought they liked floating and sinking, okay? And Oh-aew and the red bra is another 10 paragraphs no one asked for.

It's actually a goal/plan to go back and view my 5 & 4 star rated series because I have the memory of a goldfish and can't SOURCE MY FACTS OR FEELINGS, but it's all really real, and I know I'm overlooking everything and just listing basic memories here. Ugh.

Favorite Line in a QL:

That's sooooooooooo impossible!!!!

Pat's "it was so depressingly lonely for me" in Bad Buddy.

"Time flies, right?"/"It flies too fast for me to follow." SOTUS S

"You think you're sending out a certain frequency no one hears like that whale. But I hear you." 180 Degree Longitude Passes Through Us

"In that moment, I realize if he's the bravery, I must be the fear." Not Me

and on and on and on, and this is Thai only, but there's also like 20 sad Korean/Tai quotes in my brain because I like SAD quotes.

oh, and shout out to Fluke as Army screaming "what the fuck" on loop in my head from The Warp Effect.

Most Anticipated QL (& why):

I think we are all very excited about Only Friends because it's going to look outstanding and be fun, and it's got an amazing cast. I'm most excited for Neo and Mark. And the wardrobes for every character.

Outside of OF, I'm excited for After Sundown, just for the supernatural/horror aspect and because it looked pretty in the trailer. I'm just mehhh on the actual pairing of the film.

annnnnnd Cherry Magic just because I have a Tay Tawan soft spot forever. 😅 I don't actually keep up with what's "coming soon" in BL/QL, so I'm sure there are amazing things in the works that I'm unaware of.

Healthiest relationship in a QL:

Wait, you guys watch healthy relationships??

Kidding... Heck, I don't know. I personally want whatever the gay uncles in My Ride have. And I am realizing the next series I need to watch is UWMA because it keeps being mentioned...

Most toxic relationship in a QL:

VegasPete and TharnType (although I guess one could argue they were both into how unhealthy it was, but not for my viewing pleasure)

Guilty pleasure series:

SOTUS. It was my first BL series back in 2018, and I feel like I've seen so much better series and films since then, but I get stupid comfort out of this show.

Also, Enchanté seems like a guilty pleasure because so many people dislike it, and I don't feel so strongly. I like to play it and make memes of every side eye and disgusted look Akk gives.

Most underrated series:

I still will say You're My Sky, even after seeing He's Coming to Me. Hell, I will say both of them, but for entirely different experiences.

They both are entirely made up of basically everything that almost all of my favs share, and they're sprinkled with helpings of what I look for in series now and going forward.

Personally, I want to say all of my Top Ten Loves are underrated, just so I can have more people to talk about them with. 😤

Thanks for reading!

[anotherblblog]

2023 Review - Shows

okie okie, well, I'm not the most consistent poster but I did wanna join the look back at 2023 with some top hits (and misses)

Top Shows

1. Utsukushii Kare s2/Utsukushii Kare Eternal

I literally flew across the world and then proceeded to fly back and forth between Thailand and Japan I think 4 times to watch all the Utsukare stuff happening and it was very much worth the miles and hectic sleep schedule. Utsukare s1 made me love bl's again after I had gotten burnt out on them and when I saw the trailers for s2 and the movie, I fully let myself have hope and both of them delivered. Utsukare s2 did more with 4 episodes than many many many many shows do with 12-14-18 episodes. And this was the second bl movie I saw with no subs because I couldn't/didn't want to wait and similar to Gameboys the movie, this was the right decision for me. ITSAY was my longtime number 2 favorite bl show but Utsukare s2 and the movie and the hope for a 3rd season let it get the leg up my overall rankings.

2 - 5 the best of the 2023 GMMTV suite Moonlight Chicken Only Friends My School President Midnight Museum

I think the one I had the fewest critiques about is Moonlight Chicken and the ending of Only Friends still makes me unhappy to pissed depending on the day. It's hard for me to settle on a ranking for them because there's something about each of them I would desperately want to change/see done differently. Actually thinking more about it, my Moonlight Chicken critique is this should be one of the shows GMMTV has 12-14 episodes of. So sure, Cheating McChicken, Nightly Nuggets, McInfidelity is my favorite of the GMMTV shows I watched. My School President was really strong but I think the cast could have been culled a bit. Tinn's mom's arc was so damn compelling for me, really stands out. And I am a Gun simp and him playing multiple characters again and being evil gay Jesus and Tay Tawan also being evil gay Judas or whatever, sign me the fuck up.

6. Jack o'Frost

I wanted to watch this one because I saw a picture of Kyoya Honda and said "oh she's pretty" out loud to myself and then watching this series and then Me, my Husband, my Husband's boyfriend, Kyoya is pretty and can act. Amnesia plots aren't my favorite but I do think Jack o'Frost is the best executed of the ones I can remember (pun intended?).

7. The Campfire/My Universe

I felt nearly contractly obligated to watch this one because Turbo told me directly he was proud of his acting in this one and that he and Kaow did really well and he was right. I was engaged and affected by the gayest campfire horror short story. "I (M) like him but he liked you (F), so I (M) dated you (F) to stop him from getting a chance." And then comes ghostly revenge. Hilarious comedy and gay rights and gay wrongs galore.

(Dis)/honorable mentions:

8. Our Skyy 2: Bad Buddy X A Tale of Thousand Stars.

I would not have bet my worst enemy's money that we would see Ohm and Nanon together again. So them getting an Our Skyy episode was definitely a surprise. I didn't dislike their episodes or the crossover execution but I do think it could have had another 2 episodes or something so it could have had more room to breathe. I considerd the Our Skyy premise to be kinda like OVAs in anime, it's semi canon material, mostly just letting the cast and crew "do a silly one" as it were, so I wasn't necessarily looking for anything as powerful as Bad Buddy and AToTS but seeing them together again, just made me want more than what I was given.

9. Shadow

Well, you gotta swing to hit some shots. Singto and Fluke are two good actors who have had.... some odd projects they've done that I felt didn't let them really act - looking at you Oh My Sunshine Night. Shadow at least let them act and the premise/first half was really promising. The ending was a bit botched in my opinion but I do think the potential and the performances from Singto, Fluke, an Fiat were all really strong.

10. Love Syndrome 3 Uncut

When the trailer said this would be the erotic thriller of the year, I knew we were being threatened with maybe a good time. Then the show started and I was like all the softcore dry humping can't execuse whatever the fuck is supposed to be happening onscreen. Then halfway? through the airing, they started airing the uncut version which had more high heat scenes and also made the story more coherent (not necessarily a better story mind you but at least somewhat more of a coherent one). What a trial that was. But I wanted to see Doctor Kok in something again and the show introduced me to my 2023 Mark Pakin Babygirl Award winner Rossi, so I won't be too mad at it.

Top New Characters

Boston (Only Friends) Boston was me in my early 20s. Boston was a lot of my friends in their 20s and some now in their 30s. Boston is an actualized gay af drama queen horndog icon legend he's the moment and if you don't get it, you don't get it. For all that Only Friends was poised to do, it fell flat on its face when the narrative wronged Boston. Neo acted his ass off following a strong performance in the Eclipse and this rocketed Neo up my radar for someone to watch. I have to excise ep 12 from my mind but Boston is easily my favorite new character of the year and would make my top 10 overall. Boston is my young galvanized gay praxis.

Nick (Only Friends) As I was a Boston in college, boy did I have a Nick and lord jesus did my BostonNick college relationship end POORLY. I have a Mark Pakin stan since he was Teh's hot roommate in IPYTM and seeing him get more and more promiment roles has been the biggest "we're so back" of the last year and a half for me. Only Friends also did Nick a little dirty in the final arc but not as bad as Boston but damn did it hurt having Nick walk away from Boston and out of the story like that. Regardless of how bad the end of OF was, almost everytime Nick was onscreen, it was instantly on the highlight reel.

Photjanee/Tinn's Mom (My School President) A parent in a BL having their own growth arc, unprecendented (don't fact check me too hard). Mrs Ma'am here went through a full ass soap opera arc about her gay child and did the vast vast majority of it on her own without adversely affecting her son. Just masterfully done and really healing and refreshing to have in the bl pantheon.

Gaipa (Moonlight Chicken) "Is it possible for me to be the right one for you?" girl, get the fuck out, that scene was so damn brutal and nearly every Gaipa scene was like the systematic destruction of this poor lil twink. Also the fact that Khao went from Ayan to Gaipa to Ray within a year and half. That's a fucking actor.

Boeing (Only Friends) He's sexy as hell. Don't think I've seen a character drip this much sex appeal hell maybe ever. Idk. This is a ranking based soley on Mond making me wanna hard and nasty [REDACTED].

Li Ming (Moonlight Chicken) An contextually sensible angry character. This little hothead had me rooting for him the whole way through. We were promised a healing love story and Li Ming and Heart and Li Ming and Jim and Li Ming and Jam delivered.

Night (Love Syndrome 3 Uncut) Rossi is my background babygirl of 2023 now that Mark is getting prominent roles. Night was a breath of fresh air in a sticky and dank and confusing experience.

Dan (Shadow) There are protagonists who refuse the call and then there's Dan who straight up was so fed up with the fuckery and mysticism and spoopy oogy boogey shit following and haunting him that he would have rather stayed in limbo than deal with more of that fuckshit and honestly BIG MOOD. Honestly, I would have loved him being aroace (and have that not be a trauma response or at least done well if it were) because his non-reaction to Nai's kiss and affection was hard to watch.

Dome/The One/Evil Gay Jesus (Midnight Museum) If I stumbled upon Gun in a boat and got to live exclusively with him alone, I also wouldn't wanna give that up.

Top Lines/Moments/Scenes

Delicious pure camp. Also the fact that relatively baby faced Earth is playing an almost 40 year old man. More camp. Then his sister, Li Ming's mom joins the cast and we're supposed to believe she and Earth "grew up together," heehawlarious.

Gonna bullet list the rest of this

Kiyoi: "sorry, I won't let you have a one sided love anymore" (Utsukare s2/eternal) [could have been number 1 favorite line]

Kiyoi's jealousy and possessiveness at and after the actor's party (Utsukare s2/eternal)

Anna's waterfall photoshoot (Utsukare s2/eternal)

Kiyoi's photoshoot (Utsukare s2/eternal)

Hira starting off s2 by admitting he lied about his end of s1 confession (Utsukare s2/eternal)

Koyama taking Kiyoi to task (Utsukare s2/eternal)

the bathtub scene (Utsukare s2/eternal)

BostonNick's like 4-5 episode fuck spree (Only Friends)

Nick: "you destroyed my happiness" (Only Friends)

Nick: "Boston was about to love me" (Only Friends) [could have been number 1 favorite line]

Boeing just being sexy and chaotic and at times menancing af (Only Friends)

Ray vs Boston at Sand's impromptu bday party (Only Friends)

Rock & Star performance (My School President)

Gun: "would you like to tell me what to do Mister President" (My School President)

LISTEN (ฟัง) (My School President)

TiwPor non school outfits (My School President)

Li Ming throwing the pad and demanding Heart write out the truth about who broke the alcohol bottle (Moonlight Chicken)

Heart taking his parents to task about them failing him (Moonlight Chicken)

Wen's love stares (Moonlight Chicken)

Nick being a true chaos gremlin and instigator (Love Syndrome 3)

all the raunch and high heat scenes (Love Syndrome 3)

the slow motion pool hall fight scene (Love Syndrome 3)

Night: "Let's let the past be the past" (Love Syndrome 3)

The wife being like "you're not gonna stop fucking this twink so I'm going to ask him to move in with us and we're gonna figure this out" (Me, My Husband, My Husband's Boyfriend)