DiC Dub. vs Sub, Episode 21/25 - âJupiter Comes Thundering Inâ/âJupiter, the Brawny Girl in Loveâ Pt 2
After so long, here is part two!!
Because of the massive break in between the two, Iâve had to switch gears a little with my explanations, but hopefully theyâll still appear coherent! Without further ado, the remainder of this episode of Dub vs. Sub!
Previously, I covered the manners in which the episode begins to establish the foundation for both diverging character arcs. Propped with knowledge from both Beryl and Kunzite, Zoisite takes his charge with perfect grace and professionalism. Meanwhile, DiC's Zoycite is introduced as being far keener, promisingly relentless, and a more dangerous adversary. If Zoisite was concealing his fangs, as it were...then we were introduced to Zoycite flashing hers.
If it sounds like I'm bashing a dead horse with this difference a lot, Â perhaps it's also because the DiC dub seems to do so with as much vigor. Certainly, I can't assume writers' intentions when they re-wrote the character for DiC. However, DiC seemed to find as many opportunities as they can to showcase Zoycite's contrary presentation of Zoisite's original character as often as they can, even when they didn't necessarily have to...
This bit of exposition was given right at the very beginning of the DiC version when no such introduction was made in the original. Possibly, DiC made this change to ramp up the story's dramaticism. However, DiC's reputation for obvious exposition leads me to believe otherwise, especially when it starts cropping up in later episodes more frequently, and for no other reason.Â
(For example, yes, I understand that the following screenshots are referring to Lita / Makoto. However, if you look at Zoyciteâs arc as a whole, it is also an excellent setup to the infamous âDisguiseâ episode...and I feel it is also a great representation of why DiC so desperately wanted to sow these character changes into Zoycite. For if they hadnât, and Zoycite remained exactly as Zoisite in all manners except gender... how different would âsheâ be, a beautiful female soldier fighting for love, than another titular character we know?)
Anyways, I digress, and will return to the above bracketed point once we reach that particular episode. In the meantime, please enjoy the following comparisons remaining from the episode below...
1. Zoyciteâs keenness, and further proof that DiC canât stand empty sound space, even if itâs to imply a characterâs softly - and ominous - coming).
2. I wish there was a way I could put audio clips in these tumblr posts, because I do love how both these characters are still portrayed with a sense of play...Zoyciteâs acrid, saccharine poison, and Zoisiteâs breathy, cotton-candy kiss of death.
3. If I could put in audio clips, this is where we would hear Zoyciteâs syrup literally curdle - her voice rips into an edge of monstrous roughness, similar to other other monster-of-the-day characters that were also portrayed by the same actress. Meanwhile, Zoisiteâs actor speaks with a softness of a snake beginning to gently suffocate you..
4. Goddamnit Zoi, you are so fucking cute, I will never get over how you call out your own name like youâre a fucking pokemon <3.
(Side Note: Zoisiteâs use of his own name may seem vain, but I tend to read it less as a form of vanity, and more of a form of cute-speak. Itâs yet another way he downplays the perception of his potential: to evoke the sense of adorableness, of femininity, a way to startle the opponent into a sense of lowered security. Honestly, Iâm sure this isnât so much of an actual farce he puts on and is genuinely how he expresses himself, both on the job and at home, but it works! Note that in the future, whenever Zoycite uses the same tactic, she never says it in the same, diminutive cute way. Her spell-cast is always aggressive, shouted in determination and confidence).
(Extra Side-Note: Another +1 for how many times Zoycite will say she is excited to please Queen Beryl. Iâm keeping count for an explicit reason. Infer that what you will, and please imagine it with the same kind of âdingâ thatâs heard in CinemaSins.)
5. I mean, apart from the usual (Zoyciteâs kneejerk reaction is to be antagonistic, while Zoisite is actually only politely informing Makoto that she does not have to engage, etc, ...he literally does not coax, mock or challenge. We will see later that Zoisite treats physical bloodshed and confrontation as unnecessary and only as a last resort, while Zoycite is spurred by challenges) - I also love how Zoyciteâs dialogue also reflects this difference. Iâve talked at length at how Zoisite is always unfailingly and elegantly polite before, and now look at Zoyciteâs speaking mannerisms: uncouth, aggressive, and filled to the brim with attitude when the opportunity arises. âSCUSE ME, indeed!
6.Further point regarding Zoycite and Zoisiteâs divergent opinions of physical or violent confrontation: one disparages it, considering it barbaric, and that he is above it (often literally). The other laughs in the face of it, and has no qualms dishing it out as a threat...or is more than ready to follow it through.
(Also: buzz off omfg)
In fact, we see their opinions play out beautifully below:
7. After being punched, compare these reactions: one promising brutal threat, and the other fucking gobsmacked it even happened. Also, their differences in priorities.
While that may sound like Iâm making a dig at Zoisite, I am legitimately not. I know this scene tends to be one of the ones that famously evoke the idea of Zoisiteâs vanity, but I tend to read it another way. Yes, Zoisiteâs face is precious to him, and yes, it could also be read as a stereotypical portrayal of a feminine gay character.Â
However, this scene is not meant to illicit laughter. Nor it is not meant for us to startle with incredulity of how silly it is that he is upset his face his hurt. In this scene, Zoisite is truly shocked - his words are less an angry tantrum and more a statement of startled fact. He hadnât anticipated Makoto could get that close to him, could actually touch him, much could actually strike him. And, in a place that is fiercely protective of, not because of his vanity...but because it is a precious commodity in the main force that drives his arc. (Yes, itâs Kunzite.) Itâs no surprise that Zoisiteâs beauty and âbeautiful faceâ gets mentioned so often at key moments in his character development. His arc starts with a punch in the face, rises with gentle caresses, and - after a similar injury - crashes.
All of these subtleties, however, are swapped entirely in Zoyciteâs case. Her face is not a fragile commodity by which she holds dear...in fact, it is of little importance to her. Her immediate concern is vengeance - more so than the injury on her face, it is her ego is bruised, and damn anyone who dares to make that mark.
Anyways, before I digress further, letâs round back up to the remainder of the episode. These last few scenes only continue to consistently show the differences in Zoyciteâs and Zoisiteâs professional approach. There isnât as deep to note, with one exception at the very end...
8. If you havenât already caught on, Zoycite really wants this fucking crystal.
9. Up above, DiC makes as much of an effort to showcase how much joy Zoycite derives from her job. Being a Negaverse warrior is an excellent honour - your true self - and boy, is she enjoying exerting her power over those below her. Zoyciteâs ambition is demonstrated not as an ideal professional characteristic, but the potential in her to throw a coup if she wanted to. She is power hungry, and that grows recklessly to dangerous heights as her arc progresses. Notice that Zoisite says none of these things...because it isnât power he seeks. He approaches his subject with almost professional indifference: he seeks no more than the objective of his task. And donât worry, âit will only take a momentâ.
10. This has always been one of my favourite scenes. I just love how Zoisite politely ânopesâ out, while Zoycite - and I fully believe it - has a fucking victory celebration. (Donât think for a moment Zoycite is just jesting, she probably told Malachite to set out the champagne before she left on the mission!)
And again, note the increased victorious laughter, where there was none before...
And FINALLY, the one ODD thing that happens a LOT throughout DiCâs version of this character arc. Remember how I mentioned in a previous instalment that DiC seemed to like to inject extra dialogue and laughs that could exposit Zoycite as a fundamentally meaner character than Zoisite?
Hey look, it happened again:
Like, this may not seem like much of a deal, but think about it. We had a scene earlier where Zoisiteâs words basically remained the same in conversion (the âorderâ scene). Weâve had many instances where the original dialogue/script did not need to be changed, and yet was tweaked in just certain places. This seems like a wholly unnecessary change, so why do it?
The answer is: in changing Zoisiteâs gender, DiC encountered a whole other problem. And that problem was: a female solider character, whoâs primary motivation was love, a love that could be read as more complex, established, and equally both inspirational and problematic ...could end up becoming an unintentional role model for DiCâs demographic. Figuratively speaking, the tragedy by which we all love Kunzite and Zoisiteâs humanity for carried a message that DiC feared might be misconstrued as another example of a miracle romance - because at that point, superficially, the character would no longer be any different than Sailor Moon. iIf Zoycite also fought for love, then her motivations would blow a hole right in the Power of Love message that DiCâs Sailor Moon stood for. And, if she was as dedicated to Malachite as Zoisite was to Kunzite - questionably so - it would also rip a massive hole in DiCâs message of Girl Power.Â
Iâll talk more about this in greater detail as those essential scenes crop up throughout the arc. For the time being, letâs simply observe that for all the animosity Zoycite gets in the DiC version (even by other characters in the same universe), that Zoisite was never perceived in the same way, even by his enemies. And thereâs a reason for that.
Hey there! :) This is for the OC Ask Game, for Harrison: could you answer questions 1-6, 14 &15? Hope you're doing well!
Oh letâs just expose Harrison *cracks knuckles*
1: List five basic facts about your OC.
Heâs turning 22 (just shy of his birthday in Moth Work)
Heâs gay as fuuuuuh
Heâs from Brooklyn, NY
Heâs an only child
If you come for his jacket, heâll come for your life (a very basic fact)
2: Post a line of dialogue from your OC.
This is dialogue from book 3 that I still canât get over (for context, Reeve is criticizing Harrisonâs choice of Walmart as a gourmet pie shop back when Walmart used to be a big thing in my books lmaooo):
Reeve: âSo your gourmet pie shop is Walmart?â
Harrison: âWhy yes, actually⌠Do you have a problem with saving money and living better?âÂ
lmfaoooo
Also an iconic interaction from Moth Work:
Lonan:Â âYouâre patronizing me.â
Harrison: âYouâre patronizing yourself.âÂ
3: Post a snippet from your writing that describes your OC.
So this is the first ever description of Harrison from book 1 (I had just turned thirteen when I wrote this):
Thereâs a faint click somewhere to my right and a soft glow soon illuminatesthe room, shattering the darkness into pieces. I shake off the fact that Icanât see where the light is coming from, instead pointing the still loaded gunat the first thing I see, a boy who looks a bit older than me with what I makeout to be honey blond hair and the most pissed off expression on his face.Â
(fun fact I really wrestled with describing the colour of Harrisonâs hair at the time and probably changed âhoney blondeâ from âhoney brownâ like 5000 times, 13-year-old me had BEEF with his hair colour)
4: Post a snippet from your writing in which another OC describes your OC.
This is a very old description I scavenged to find from book 6 where Reeve vaguely describes Harrison in the first paragraph which is one way to go about it:
Beside me is wood smoke and copper, leather and strong coffee, all strung around human flesh. He moves with precision, like a player focused on a riveting chess matchâŚ
And hereâs the most recent paragraph (and the last paragraph in Lonanâs POV) of Lonan describing Harrison when they meet up for the first time after brief hiatus (I havenât shared this yet, so for context, Suzanna is Harrisonâs mother):
In the kitchen, Suzanna laughs at Elizaâs joke, something vaguely about Geminis, or maybe she says alibis. He doesnât quite hear it. He doesnât mean to drop the rose, but it falls with a muffled thump between them, a floral border. Lonan blinks many times. He breathes many times. He counts many times. But after all the testsâthe blinking, the breathing, the counting, the person at the door doesnât change. Sunshine hair. Concerned mouth. Semi-crooked nose. Butterfly lashes. Eyes the colour of a kingfisher.
5: Describe your OCâs physical appearance.
Harrisonâs the cutest guy in town, so cute he managed to convince @sarahkelsiwrites to get me to write book one! Without Harrisonâs cuteness, this 8 book series/monstrosity would not exist! As Iâve said, Harrisonâs a cutie and should definitely be treated as such (the downfall of Moth Work loool). Heâs shorter than Lonan by just a bit tho I really canât think of how tall my characters are because I am apparently short and canât imagine anyone a foot taller than me, so all you need to know is heâs tall but still shorter than Lonan lol. He looks a lot like his Portuguese mother and takes on both her âsemi-crooked nose, the same mouth, straight and concerned, the same markabove the eyebrow he always thought came from some sort of accident. Eventhough her eyes are brown and his are clearish and teal, itâs like he has hereyes tooâsoft and rimmed with lashes like butterfly wingsâ according to Lonan lool. He wears Lonanâs fake momâs earring which is a pretty dangly blue gem. Though Harrison could look like anything and all heâd need to be Harrison is his leather jacket. In the book cover I designed, Lonanâs wearing it (ROOD) as he unknowingly takes it in chapter 6, but besides that one time, his jacket never comes off! He also wears his motherâs guardian angel necklace which is a newer edition, though a well-liked one as I always pictured him wearing a chain of some sorts! Itâs important to note that when I was thirteen, the only way Iâd describe Harrisonâs eyes were as âburning turquoiseâ loool.
Hereâs how I drew him for the book cover (though I couldnât really get his eyes right are they burning turquoise-y enough??):
6: Describe your OCâs love life.
Messy! Harrisonâs gone through a lot as a hopeless romantic, and has been lead to much heartbreak because of it. If he loves someone, he really loves someone, and this is very much seen in his feelings toward Lonan. Since weâre spilling the tea on Harrison, hereâs his relationship with Lonan throughout the books + as Nothing But Thieves songs (because weâre going THERE):
Book 2
When the boys actually meet! Lonan didnât exist in book 1 and I think Harrisonâs sanity benefitted from this but anyway
Theyâre coworkers (back when this book was a dystopia lmao, Harrison took an open job as a tech analyst in Lonanâs government squad which was his pride and joy and I have since of course axed it)
They donât like each other but canât get enough of being enemies if u know what I mean
NBT song: Last OrdersÂ
Book 3
This âlove being your enemyâ thing continues even when Lonan makes his redemption arc and heâs no longer an enemy lmaoo
We get to see their actual friendship develop toward the ž mark of the book
âClearly these people care about each otherâ kind of vibe!
NBT song: Wake Up Call
Book 4
We see a new level of closeness develop between the boys, and though weâre in Reeveâs head, she def senses some tension mwahaha
NBT song: Afterlife
Book 5
Harrison really steps in as not only a friend for Lonan in this book, but a body of support while his mental health goes through it
NBT song: Reset Me
Book 6
Theyâre both mad at each other for almost this entire book but this gives us more of that tension we WANT
Reeve really notices this tea develop and she be sippin it the whole book
Toward the midpoint thereâs definitely explicit suggestion of their relationship (Reeve canât fully see this as sheâs mostly concerned about herself but thereâs definitely an ongoing relationship in this book thatâs pretty turbulent):
NBT song: You Know Me Too Well
Moth Work
This relationship sees a lot of bad times
It ainât a healthy relationship by any means and things start falling apart! Both boys have things they have to work out, that are currently causing lots of conflict!
The TEA I have not shared yet is that I *plan* for them to split up by the end of this book (though they never were really together in this book so itâs not really a breakup lol). Harrison moves to Brooklyn with his mom and Lonan stays in Vegas with Eliza (do with that what you will!!)
NBT song: Hostage (for Harrison) and Take This Lonely Heart (for Lonan)
14: What is one of your OCâs secrets?
That he likes waffles better than he like Lonan? Scandle! Harrison had an affinity for waffles in book one. Here are receipts:
A scene from book 3 (2015) that features a lot of iconic content (Harrisonâs waffle kink, Foster being prime-time soft boi, grumpy Lonan, narrated by Reeve who manages to not inject her opinion once, my classic 2015 âwittyâ YA dialogue):
âAh, well⌠your sister [the youngest, not Reeve lol] was talking about people, and how being mean is the only way that they listen⌠She may or may not have had a run-in with Harrison earlier, which is why the topic was brought upâŚâ From next to him, Ris grunts over his steaming waffles, a full mouth when he turns his face toward Lonan whoâs got the same laptop in front of his face, furiously tapping at the keyboard as he concentrates.Â
Harrison actually reaches over and slams the lid shut. Â Â Â Â Â Â
âHey asshole,â he says around his mouthful of waffle. âPut the fucking technology away, and be a little social.â Lonanâs dead silent on the receiving end, and when I look closer at him, I realize itâs because his fists are tightly clenched and a vein in his foreheadâs bulging.Â
âThat was three full days of work that you mightâve completely ruined!â Lonan hisses, eyes wide and angry as he stares at Harrison whoâs scowling around his breakfast.Â
âAnywayâŚâ Foster continues awkwardly. âBasically, helping people is sometimesââ Heâs cut off as a giant waffle is smothered up to his face, Harrison holding it out tauntingly. âWhat the hell are you doing?âÂ
âYou know you want the waffle⌠WafflesâŚâ Â
Also to the waitress while he and Reeve bond at a diner:
âThank you.â Harrison says with a wide smile, staring at the waffles like theyâre the love of his life. âOh my fucking god.â He mumbles, and I assume that Iâm not meant to here that.Â
15: Your OC is given the chance to go back in time. Where do they go and what do they do?
I think there are a lot of things heâd like to change in his past, namely his relationship with his mother who heâs estranged from until the end of Moth Work. I think he wouldâve liked to see her more in his teens (despite being a hard ass when she does show up in Moth Work). Heâd go back to Brooklyn and like chill in a pizzeria with his mom lol. On a lighter note, I think heâd also like, join ABBA or something.
âSupergirlâ star Nicole Mainesâ passion for transgender rights makes her super in real life, too
Transgender activist and actor Nicole Maines knew she was a girl around the age of 3 or 4.Â
âMy case is kind of unique because I have a twin brother (Jonas),â she told Ellen Degeneres during an appearance on âEllenâ in 2018. âSo, growing up with him, he was identifying with all these male things and feeling very comfortable in his body, and I wasnât.âÂ
Maines, the subject of the Mount Washington Valleyâs One Book One Valley community read âBecoming Nicole,â slowing began publicly transitioning in the first grade, and officially presented herself as female in the fifth grade, when she changed her name from Wyatt to Nicole.Â
Maines, who is turning 22 on Oct. 7, became the center of the precedent-setting Maine Supreme Judicial Court case Doe v. Regional School Unit 26 regarding gender identity and bathroom use in schools. Maines had been barred from using the female bathroom after a complaint, but the court ruled that denying a transgender student access to the bathroom consistent with their gender identity is unlawful.Â
In 2018, Maines debuted as Nia Nal/Dreamer, televisionâs first transgender superhero, on âSupergirl.â She is returning as a series regular for season five which premieres Sunday, Oct. 6, at 9 p.m. on The CW.Â
One Book One Valley has a series of events throughout October culminating in an evening with âBecoming Nicoleâ author Amy Ellis Nutt on Thursday, Oct. 24, at 7 p.m. at Loynd Auditorium at Kennett High School in North Conway, N.H. In addition to Nutt, the plan is to have the Maines family be part of the discussion through a Skype connection.
I recently talked with Maines about growing up transgender, activism, privilege and the upcoming season of âSupergirl.â
âBecoming Nicoleâ is beautifully written, but it is very journalistic and academic in its approach. Is there anything you wouldâve done differently or included in telling that story?
I donât know. I think, of course, Amy did a phenomenal job, and I am so happy with how the book came out because I think it really does have something for everyone, whether or not youâre just starting to learn about transitioning and youâre looking for something new. But there was so much that had to be cut out in the final editing process and, unfortunately, a lot of what did get cut out was original writing from Jonasâ perspective. I donât know if it was something I wouldâve done differently, I think it is more of a shame that it couldnât make it into the final cut. It was just so long before it was cut. So, I do hope at some point people do get to see that because it is really, really beautiful.
In âBecoming Nicole,â a therapist told your parents that you werenât transgender because you were peeing standing up. What are some other examples youâve encountered of misinformation about what transgender is?
Where do I even begin? So many people think that it is one of those things that you can kind of slap a label on and say, âThis is what this is,â and with something as expansive as gender it is really impossible to paint it as very black and white. So many people have tried to say âOh, all trans people look like this. This is how you spot a trans person.â And thatâs 1) offensive, and 2) not true or realistic.Â
I think a lot of that has to do with how historically we are represented in the media: men in dresses and this and that. It is so much more expansive than that. No one group of people looks a certain way, and it is dangerous to try to categorize people like that. So, I think besides the peeing standing up, which is ridiculous, what is equally ridiculous is the idea that some people think that they can spot a trans person, and thatâs sort of the whole basis of their argument.Â
You know how sometimes you read certain blogs or you read certain Twitter accounts just to make yourself mad? I stumbled across one, it was a really popular TERF account â which stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminists, which is pretty much feminists who believe trans women arenât women, and they use recycled rhetoric from the â70s saying that trans women are just men trying to invade womenâs spaces and stupid shit like that. It was this person going on and on about, like, âOh, none of you pass. None of you look like women. Yada yada yada.â And I was like, 1) no room to talk because her haircut was atrocious, and 2) come say it to my face. It really made me mad. It is atrocious that people think they can spot something like that. It is ridiculous.Â
It is kind of like the back-handed compliment that I receive a lot, that is âOh, you donât look trans,â or âOh, never really wouldâve guessed.â A lot of the time, I try not to jump on people for that because I know it is coming from a place where theyâre trying to give me a compliment, but what does trans look like? What did you think I was going to look like?Â
And, of course, everyone thinks that we are supposed to look like men in dresses, which â even if we did â is rude as hell to say something like that because, not only is that stupid, but it is also reinforcing negative beauty standards among women, not just trans women, but women. Because you hear about the bathroom bills and they are like, âOh, we are going to enforce no trans people in bathrooms.â Well, how are you going to enforce that? And then you get cases of cis women getting kicked out of the bathrooms because they look more masculine than others. Even for cisgender women that is not a black and white line. People look different, and it is totally unfair and unreasonable to say just because someone has harder features than somebody else that this is what is going on in your pants. That feels like a wild, crazy assumption to me.Â
So, obviously your father always loved you, but he struggled with your identity. Was there a specific moment when you finally felt truly seen by him?
I know a lot of moments where he really started having light bulb moments. I think for me, one of the first moments where I felt like I started being seen was when I started wearing girlâs clothes to school. My transition started going there slowly, but between second and third grade I had gone from wearing longer hair to wearing girlâs clothes all the time. I donât know if it was even just my father, but by everyone, but that is when I started feeling like I was being seen. Then in fifth grade was when I had fully transitioned. I was allowed to pierce my ears and I was allowed to wear skirts and dresses. That really felt like I am seen. And then, of course, when my father finally started fighting for me. Because I knew, at that point, he still didnât fully understand, but when he started defending me and defending my transition and my using the girlâs bathroom, I felt like I had him on my side.Â
I love last season of âSupergirl.â One of my favorite moments was when Nia Nal/Dreamer publicly announced herself as both an alien and a transgender woman because it put a positive face on a group who were being demonized in the show. How important do you think it is to give a face to marginalized people?
It is incredibly important. The best way to fight against marginalization and the most effective way that we fight back against people who are trying to erase us is with visibility. When you have an administration who, for incidents in a crazy hypothetical, removed me from the 2020 census, then the best way to combat that is to be more visible than ever. By saying, OK, youâre trying to make people think that we are not valid, youâre trying to make people think we donât exist and that we are not solid and valid in our identities and our existence. Well, then we are going to show you that we are. We are going to show you: no, you cannot ignore us because we are here and it doesnât really matter what you believe. It doesnât really matter if you say, âWell, I donât really believe in transgender.â Well, it isnât really something for you to believe in because whether you like it or not, we are here. We exist and thatâs not a matter of opinion. You do not get to choose whether or not my identity is valid because I am not doing it for you and we are not going to let you erase that. So, I think visibility is the number one method of defense against erasure.Â
Based on the trailer, the new season of âSupergirlâ partially deals with the betrayal and anger Lena Luthor feels toward Carol Danvers hiding her identity of Supergirl from her. This seems like an apt metaphor for the similar sense of betrayal, hurt and confusion some people feel when a loved one comes out as trans or gay. Do you think that is intentional?
I donât know if it was intentional. I think because there are so many different layers with Carol and Lenaâs relationship, and especially with the Kryptonian-Luthor relationship. I think it is hard to boil it down to just that, because I get why Lena is upset and I get why those feelings are floating around, but personally, Iâm kind of like nobody owes any facet of their identity to anybody but themselves. If they did not feel that they wanted to share a part of their identity with you, you donât get to be mad about that. That is something that belongs entirely to them and if they did not choose, for whatever reason to disclose that part of themselves, thatâs not because you necessarily did anything wrong, thatâs because they had a choice and thatâs not necessarily on them either. But, like I said, it is different between being trans and being a superhero. It is hard because, at the same time, it is like, âOh, you were treating me like Lex, and Iâm not Lex. You can trust me.â So, thereâs a whole bunch of other stuff floating around, but I donât know if it was a 100 percent intentional, but there are definitely connections.Â
Thatâs the great thing about sci-fi is that it can always be used as a metaphor for exploring social issues.Â
Absolutely.Â
How will Nia Nal be challenged in the new season?
The theme of this season is communication, and so something Nia is struggling with the first chunk of the season is communicating with how she feels with Brainiac because theyâve been dating and they have been having communication issues. Neither of them are the best at relationships, and so this is kind of a new area for her and sheâs trying to work out, âHow do I express how I feel without hurting you?â And thatâs something she struggles with a lot. It is being open and honest with how sheâs feeling and trying not to bottle up what she is feeling for the sake of other people.Â
What I also really love about Nia Nal is when she puts herself out there â kind of going off the whole thing of passing â she does pass as both a human and a woman, and so she doesnât need to put herself out there, but by doing so she empowers others. Do you also try to lead by example in your own life?
Absolutely, I recognize 100 percent as Nia and as Nicole that I have an insane amount of privilege. Iâm white and, like you said, I pass and Iâm on TV. And I mention that I am on TV because when we look at issues like HB2 and we look at bathroom bills and stuff like that, that is not necessarily going to affect me as someone who passes and as someone who is in Vancouver. Iâm working in Vancouver, HB2 will not affect me. I am not there. But I recognize that there are issues that are affecting members of my community who donât have the same significant platform that I do. And so it is my responsibility as a member of that community, as someone with that platform, to lift them up and to start to shine a light on issues that are affecting members of my community, even if I personally will not feel the impact of that harmful legislation.Â
It is important and thatâs what we talk about in feminist circles. We are always talking about how can people with privilege use that privilege to lift others up, to better the situation of others who donât have those some privileges. We ask that of men, we ask that of white people, we ask that of abled-body people, of trans women who pass. We ask that people use their privilege responsibly. And so that is what I try to do and I hope that I am succeeding. I just try to use my platform and use my voice to talk about issues that I feel matter.Â
Going back to âBecoming Nicole,â the book discusses âThe Little Mermaidâ as a metaphor for being transgender because Ariel doesnât feel she belongs in the ocean and everyone tells her you have to be with your own people blah, blah, blah. Ariel was one of your favorite characters growing up, do you feel even at a young age you were drawn to this character because your struggle paralleled her struggle?
I guess subconsciously, yes, but on a surface level, I liked mermaids. I donât know why I liked it so much and thatâs why I say subconsciously I was drawn to it. I remember loving that more than anything else. I loved everything about her. I remember I was like, âThat is what I want for myself.â I was like, âShe is so beautiful, and she is so graceful,â which is not a trait that Iâve been able to replicate in my own life. I remember being so drawn to her, and I was like âMom, Dad, that is what we are going for. That is the look.â Between her and, Iâve said it before, Storm from the X-Men. I remember watching âX-Men: The Animated Seriesâ as as kid and she had that hair and the cape and was like âOh, thatâs drama. I love it.âÂ
And now you have your own cape.Â
Well, metaphorically speaking. I donât have a superhero cape. I feel a little cheated.Â
Well, maybe you can get one.Â
No, I have the best supersuit. It is shiny and holographic. It is awesome.Â
One part I really liked in âBecoming Nicole,â I think it was before you were going to enter fifth grade, you were asked what kind of story youâd tell and you said it would be this mystery/comedy/fantasy with a sassy character and a sidekick who was even sassier. If you were to write that story now what do you think it would look like?
Oh my God. Well, it would definitely have the sassy character and the sassier sidekick, because I remember growing up I was always the biggest fan of the sassy comic relief characters, which is why I tried to play that role in my own regular life, which took some getting used to. I remember in middle school people didnât exactly get the whole me trying-to-be-funny and I think it just came across as annoying. If I was going to write that story now, I think it would absolutely be about murder that would be the mystery. The comedy that would manifest itself in probably macabre, offbeat humor about murder. And then the fantasy ... they are all vampires. Iâm just describing âBit.â
I havenât been able to find anyway to watch âBitâ (which stars Maines as a transgender teen who falls in with four queer feminist vampires, who try to rid Los Angeles' streets of predatory men), but I am very interested in that film. What was it like making that?
It was so amazing and I hope youâll be able to watch soon. Right now, it is making its festival rounds, and hoping someone will choose to distribute it, and weâre like, âPay us, please!â It was so incredible. Everyone on set was amazing and our writer/director Brad Michael Elmore is the coolest dude on the planet. I was talking about using our privilege to tell stories that matter and to raise up minority voices, and thatâs absolutely what he did in this situation. I know a lot of the festivals we have gone to have been feminist festivals and gay festivals, and weâve had a significant amount of people kind of be like, âOh, you were written by a straight cis white guy,â and weâre like,âYeah, and heâs doing exactly what we want him to be doing, which is using his privilege to create this super awesome movie featuring queer and interracial talent, this intersectional group of feminists.â We had a female DP which how awesome is that? We had this super awesome kaleidoscope of different identities in this film and I feel like some folks are very quick to write it off because it was written by a straight cis white guy. 1) I donât feel that is fair to Brad, and 2) I donât think that is fair to the movie. The movie is so cool and the movie deals with such cool issues and it approaches them all in such a fucking awesome way. To write it off because of who our director is feels very shortsighted.Â
And obviously you wouldnât say or do anything that felt disingenuous to your own experience.Â
Yes, absolutely. I was like, âYe of little faith.âÂ
When you were 13 years old you went to the Maine statehouse and spoke to dozens of representatives to convince them to vote against a bill that would make it legal to discriminate against trans people. Do you have any interest in getting into politics either working for a campaign or as a candidate yourself?
I think I would be willing to support someone elseâs campaign. Politics are not for me. I do not have the stomach for that. I do not have the patience for that. I know where my lane is and it is absolutely not going for an elected position. I am more the person who shows up when the politicians are not doing what they are supposed to be doing. Thatâs when I get involved.Â
The big thing I took away from âBecoming Nicoleâ was that prejudice and hate is something that is taught, because the boy who started harassing you the most was told by his grandfather that you were wrong and that he should go after you. And so I guess the question is, what do you do to undo these wrongheaded lessons that are passed down by parents or grandparents?
I think the first step comes from within. You cannot make anybody do anything. You cannot make somebody unlearn hate and prejudice. That journey has to start with themselves. With my father â and, of course, he was never outwardly hateful or anything, I always knew he loved me â but his journey to acceptance started with him deciding to pick up Jennifer Finney Boylanâs book (about being a transgender woman) and read it. He had to ask himself what he was so afraid of if his son was his daughter. He had to ask himself what about that terrified him so much. And thatâs what every person has to do.Â
Every person has to be aware of their own prejudices and their own biases. We all have them. We have to be aware of them. We have to actively work to undo them because it is something we are taught, not even just by our parents or caretakers, but through television and society. We are pumped full of biases and prejudices that we are not even aware of, and so we have to pay extra care and extra caution to do undo those. And when we catch ourselves, we have to recognize, âNo, thatâs not rightâ and go from there.
It has to be a conscious choice, and so that is hard. It is a hard thing to do. It is a really gross feeling to try to unlearn stuff like that, and so a lot of people wonât do that because a lot of people are more comfortable being like, âNo, I donât get it, thatâs gross, I donât like it and Iâm going to hate it.â That is much easier and much more comfortable then asking yourself what you are afraid of. As socially responsible participants in the community, we have a responsibility to ask that question anyway. All of us have to ask that question and not just about trans issues, because if we donât do that, if we are looking for what is easy and what is comfortable at the expense of other people, then stay inside.Â
And I feel like the biggest thing is if youâre afraid of a gay person or trans person or black, Hispanic, whatever social issue, if you actually talk to these people that you are afraid of, that youâd see that they are just human beings.
That is the number one thing. It is so much easier to marginalize a group of people when you are not putting names to faces, when we are not putting faces to groups, when you are dehumanizing them. It is so much easier to sweep their plights under the rug and be like, âOh, they donât matter,â because you are not talking to them, youâre not seeing them as people. Thatâs why I always say, âCome say it to my face.â It is so much harder to be an asshole to someoneâs face because you have to look them in the eye and tell them their rights donât matter.