#like. even considering what the duffer’s have said about will being the focus of s5 it should be a given that mike’s overarching

[loverslakes]

it shouldn’t even need to be said that it’s not “either” mike “or” will that are going to have crucial parts in the plot in st5 and meaningful personal storylines to match. everything is clearly leading up for it to center both of them with respect for the rest of the ensemble. like…… at least to me that’s why it’s such a compelling ship

[chirpsythismorning]

Idk what’s worse, the fact that there are milkvans out there that believe El commissioned Will’s painting, or that a majority of milkvans believe she didn’t, but still think everything Will said to Mike in the van scene applies to how El feels about Mike as well. And honestly, how could they not? Mike looked very happy and emotional hearing Will's words in the van... no shit they're hoping that's how El feels.

But El never called Mike the heart. El never said she needed Mike and always will. Those words coming from Will's feelings for Mike, then being used to inspire Mike to give his monologue to El, was disingenuous bc it was never El’s feelings being responded to in the first place.

‘It only works if it comes from you’

That’s the whole problem. It didn’t work bc it was coming from Will, not El.

IF everything Will said applied to El, why not have it come from her?

No, but seriously??

Is s5 just going to open up to El apologizing to Mike for ignoring him after the monologue, followed by her just repeating everything Will said with her own twist and Mike being like cool!! That works for me!

The problem with making the narrative choice to instead focus on Will's feelings at the forefront, only to follow it up with El's identical feelings, does nothing but make the whole thing fall flat.

Instead of seeing this main couple voice their love for each other themselves, I gotta have her brother do it for her?? And only then after he does it, can I see her do it in like a 2.0 version of sorts????

So many milkvans are willing to acknowledge that Mike and El’s dynamic throughout the series is riddled frivolous conflict more than anything, with little to no time dedicated to showing the development that actually matters. They say they wish the show spent more time with them actually face to face acknowledging how they both feel verbally without the constant cloud of some other third party interfering, causing them to have issues. They say that this time though, they think the Duffers will magically pull through for them and go from what they believe is shitty writing to ‘good’ writing, based in terms of how they'll handle Mike and El's relationship in s5...

But that's not realistic on any front, milkvan, byler or otherwise.

And that's a big part of the problem, bc they know the pacing has not been great for them, and they NEED the show to just give them Mike and El so they can be happy, but that's not how you build up suspense for a love story. And dragging out Mike and El any more, would just be a repeat of every other season before. They reached their peak and so they can only down from here. That's kind of the whole point.

One thing to note is that the Duffers always create conflict for the incompatible couple early in a season, so that the audience doesn’t feel too uncomfortable with the idea of considering the other option that’s at the forefront for the rest of the season.

This will ESPECIALLY be the case for byler, bc Will already has home wrecker allegations as it is. And it's also a highly controversial queer ship, and so people are going to be making claims left and right that it’s wrong bc of xyz.

They just wont be able to have byler scenes loaded with romantic tension all season long, more than any other season, and with the story making it more obvious they want us to root for them, while also having Mike and El still be together. And it's simply bc the reality is the Duffers have a record of doing the complete opposite of that.

This is also endgame territory, so there is a serious pressure on the writers part to get their audience to be closer to rooting for byler than denying it even being possible. Meaning they NEED the audience to be watching their first kiss and, for better or worse, be thinking, FINALLY just get it over with already!

Also what's El's supposed to be up to while this is happening? Are we assuming she's just stringing along waiting for Mike to get his shit together? Like Jesus!

El has every right to say her piece and get that shit over with, by episode 1 or 2 at the latest. She could be a focused on Max and her family and friends, which if you'll note also includes Mike and Will, but instead this time without the pressure of her having to hope that something will turn around and suddenly Mike will decide he finally loves her... She doesn't deserve that.

Byler is clearly the route they are taking. If that is the plan, it's time to make this separation so that the audience is finally confronted with viewing Mike and El without the constant rose tinted love at first sight goggles, and instead give them a chance to be their authentic selves.

And I think El, being a character that could barely speak in s1, that her not getting her own voice in this situation is fucking serious. El not being able to say those words to Mike herself, like there's a reason for that. And so when she finally does get to say how she feels, there isn't going to be any room for subtext or misunderstanding, not on the audiences part nor Mike's. El has always been pretty clear about what she wants and I think that will apply in s5 now more than ever.

[emblazons]

What do you think about the way Byler has been marketed recently? Between volume 1 and 2 there was a lot of promo and Noah seemed crazy excited about it, saying things like “you should definitely ship that” which made a lot of people think something was going to happen in Volume 2 only for it to be the most (temporarily) soul crushing outcome. But now both Noah (and Finn) are playing up the whole “I don’t know maybe, maybe not” thing, with a lot of emphasis on Will’s happiness being more important than anything and I’m wondering why that’s the case. It just strikes me as weird since the era of extreme Byler hype was for the sad season and now they’ve dialed it back for s5. This isn’t byler doubt or anything since the most important thing is the story and how it’s being written and that clearly points to Byler endgame, but since these guys are trained in what to say in order to not spoil, why do you think Noah promoted Byler so hard between volumes 1 and 2 while knowing what the end of s4 was like, and what do you think is the reason for the switchup now?

Honestly? I think it’s just a result of them not having a single bit of confirmed press points for talking about S5, and wanting to hedge their bets for how they speak about it moving into the longer part of silence between seasons—especially knowing that the primary “we want to flesh this out” focus for The Duffers (and the story) right now is this play in London.

I think a lot of the promo that Noah did between volumes and immediately afterward was geared at making it clear there was something going on between Mike and Will, combined with a bit of fun. The fact that the only “proper” interview he did (aka one that was designed to be picked up by major outlets / give as many people involved in reading articles about the show as possible some common-core feedback to go off of) was that Variety interview where he clearly said “will is gay and in love with Mike” makes that clear, because even if they are “for byler,” most people will never hear what Noah, Finn or any of the cast had to say at fan-con panels, or will ever care to know they happened.

Even for dedicated fans of ST who aren’t diehard bylers though, it’s clear that (for all it matters to us here), the primary story is on pause as it’s written + being made—a fact of life that most longtime fans of any media know means there will be relative quiet, because actors don’t have any hard new information to work with. You see that clearly in the fact that right now, Noah and Finn have been promoting other things (other projects like Pinocchio + WYFSTW or personal endeavors like Tender Fix)—which most likely means any ST related comments they make will be intentionally vague / their own “headcanons” because there isn’t any new narrative to promote, or press guideline telling them what is/isn’t off limits for S5.

As much as it might seem like “a change in their enthusiasm,” it’s not anything worth writing home about—just a sign that we’re in the silent era between seasons + that the duffers (despite writing S5 & gearing up to film it) have their eyes set on fleshing out a different part of the story. It’s a pretty clear place in any fandom, if you’re used to being in them, imo—which is why I encourage people not to hold too tightly to what actors say about these things anyway, considering they (like us) are waiting for story + press guidance as the Netflix machine slowly moves back into creating/finishing ST.

Thanks for the ask! And I encourage anyone looking at Noah’s comments at today’s event for any deep and meaningful insight into S5 byler to breathe and remember he’s literally just an 18 year old kid giving you his own spoiler-free between-season headcanons, not a duffer brother or the writers room. I’ve seen people lose it over cons and honestly—especially this far out—you really have to keep perspective lmfao.

[fruitydemogorgon]

what's ur theory/s for s5? WHY WAS WILL TOUCHING HIS NECK?!

also hi hru :P

heyyy! im doing okay, just been a lil busy. hbu?

Sorry to respond so late lol. Anyways, I think I may as well use this as an opportunity to compile my thoughts because I have quite a lot.

For the supernatural side of things, I think I can vaguely assume what the plot will be.

I think we will focus on the "tear" that's spreading throughout Hawkins. With the season 4 epilogue, we've already been introduced to how that's affecting the general public (with people injured + killed by the earthquake, and others leaving town), and I think season 5 will continue down that same path. Hawkins and the Upside Down are...somehow merging. It's possible that, at one point, those gates will be accessible to Vecna and...well...everything. It may even start with 'disappearances' as it did in season 1.

The Duffer's explained that we will also be retreating to the season 1 pairings. I find it unlikely that Will would be separated from the rest of the group, so I assume he would be with them too? Then it would be a little more like the season 2 pairings, rather than season 1 though. Not entirely sure about that (though, their dynamic as the core four- Dustin, Lucas, Will and Mike- is one of my favourites). It's likely, in my opinion, that El will spend quite a lot of time reconnecting with Hopper and Max. We know that, aside from Mike and the Byers, these are the people she's closest to.

I think the Duffer's will also continue down the road of 'only El can save Max'. Which may be something she realises during season 5.

I also have a lot of thoughts on Will being more of a 'main' character.

The Duffer's said it themselves, and at the end of the season we saw it come into play. But, Will's connection to the Upside Down isn't over. In fact, it never ended.

Vecna's actor, Jamie Bower, explained that he made a mind-map as an attempt to understand the story more, and in the centre of that mind-map he placed Will. It's almost indisputable that season 5 will address his major connection to the Upside Down, especially since it's stuck on the day he went missing. Though, we should also consider how he went missing on the same day that El opened the portal. So, maybe, when she opened that portal it only opened to that specific time?

Then again, Vecna hunted down Will (assuming Vecna has control over the Demogorgon). His first time with access to the real world in over 4 years and he chooses to kidnap a boy that seemingly has nothing to do with it?

Whatever the reason is, Will is important to Vecna in a way that none of his other victims were.

If they choose to have a time-skip in season 5, I believe the first few episodes will still be based in 1986, continuing on very close to where we left off. As the complications of the Upside Down, (and the cliff-hanger s4 ended on) needs to be resolved.

I'll be posting a more in-depth version of this soon.

[kaypeace21]

Are you normal or are you just thinking about this trailer clip probably being foreshadowing?

Like ... we see the obvious pattern. Blank spaces 3+5 =8 (kali) and 5+6=11 (el). We have a red 8 ball (kali) and the 7 +4 balls add up to 11 (el)too. Tbh this seems obvious to me and I predicted the 2 would face brenner again as a team (before the trailer released).

But ,let's focus on one scene in particular: the whole sinister music ,clock ticking, builds up . The kid drops the red ball - than we see a magic 8 (kali) ball say "all signs point to yes" a kid put blocks together (they really stretch the scene to build up suspense before we see where that 1 single red ball falls. And what number slot does it fall into...

...7 . Now is it a coincidence that for Will 7s are usually associated with being k*dnapped ( " it was a 7 the demogrogan it got me")? Possibly - but it could be a hint that all 3 will be captured by Brenner- maybe by the end of the season. s1 brenner showed interest in Will. And Mike initially assumed and said " what if the same bad men took Will"? In s2 Hawkins lab monitor his brain waves and record him on video (like el), etc.Even his b day march 22 (3+2+2 =7).

And if you think its a stretch with numbers-this trailer shows the clock read 3am for the "witching hour".

ps witches,  Mages (mike called el this) , and wizards (Will) are all considered interchangeable terms.”In the Western Christian tradition, the hour between 3 and 4 a.m. was considered a period of peak supernatural activity – this time is also referred to as the "Devil's hour" due to it being a mocking inversion of the time in which Jesus supposedly died, which was at 3 pm.” So i also think it’s a a little nod/eastergg to the whole 80s christian satanic panic/possible easter holiday in s4 too. People who were part of the ‘satanic panic’ would not think powers are cool- but demonic like most people involved in witch hunts historically (who said withches were in league with the devil- like the carrie film/book too -that is st inspo) . Kali even warned el- most people would think they’re monsters for their powers.

So the climatic build up to 7 seems significant. Why build up to 7 if not Will related ? to make the numbers add to 11 in both the blank spots and for the red spheres -like kali? For sure very possible! But could there be more than 1 reason?

In the trailer before we enter the corridor with the "11" designation. In a different hallway we first pass by 9, and 10. So who is the door next to el's if not 10... ... 12? Than who would be 12... Will?I'd recommend watching the trailer again to see the numbers on the doors i’m referring to ( I can't get a good visual).

Also as far as the 12 thing... remember how brenner's actor (Matthew modine) posted this...

Like in s2- we had 11s show up as eastereggs (for and around el) and 8s around kali . But in s2 we also saw 12s show up around Will too- talked about it here.

Plus,  The Will comic- referenced ‘house of stairs’ (Will throws that book at the demogorgan) .It involved a gay male teen (in love with his childhood bff) and a gal with buzzcut -being kidnapped and thrown in the facility by an evil psychiatrist who is trying to make the teens into weapons for the government. And the “into the fire” st comic had a fire wielding character  with mental health issues (cough Will the wise- having fire powers/ penthurst being a psych facility) . She was stuck in Brenner’s facility- and escapes using her fire powers. So I think it’s pretty likely Will is there too.

Also let's say this is a flashback and or nightmare of El? I still wouldn't put it past the duffers to throw in easterggs that are foreshadowing in said flashback/dream.

I think Will may escape earlier, while el and kali stay and team up to face brenner once and for all in s5... maybe.

We also know the male teen in the trailer and bts looked suspiciously like Noah (Will). But we just have to wait and see...

whether just el & kali-or all 3 . Yikes

[robinsteve]

Hey I'm the Ronance anon and I'm sorry for starting all this discourse on your blog today. I read the additional takes from others, especially about why I had to focus on Steve when it comes to a lesbian relationship and I never meant it in a disrespectful way. I guess I projected myself onto Steve, I was close friends with a girl who started dating my ex and our friendship just ended after that. So for me it was mostly about the Steve and Robin friendship dynamic because it's one of my favorite aspects of the show and I didn't want it to be ruined. And I'm not a huge fan of Nancy in general, I want what's best for Robin and I think she could do better than her. So yes my dislike definitely comes from personal experience more than anything else. In general I'm not a huge fan of cross dating in friend groups because it always ends up in drama. But you're absolutely right about that no guy's opinion should matter when it comes to a lesbian ship. In fact I really want to see good representation in media, and when push comes to shove and they would handle Ronance in a delicate way with everything that comes with it I could be on board definitely. I mean in the end this ship probably won't sail anyway besides in the fanon version. I wish that Robin gets to make out with girl next season, idk if Vicky is the right choice for tho bc the Duffers just made her a second Robin, we shall see.

I also saw someone bringing up Stonathan and why Nancy's feelings were never discussed when it comes to them dating. Now I also personally don't ship them as well, mainly I don't think they have chemistry and they barely interacted after s1 really. I guess also after Steve and Nancy broke up, I didn't consider them as friends. They interacted for the first time since two years in s4, and didn't seem close before given how things ended. So I guess it's a bit different for me here, Steve and Robin are besties, platonic soulmates and Nancy and Steve are more like acquaintances before s4 and even after that they seem awkward and not close (despite the Stancy agenda the writers pushed on us). If they were closer and Stonathan was on the table in s5 after Nancy and Jonathan broke it off, ofc I'm going to take Nancy's feelings into consideration when it comes to shipping her exes together, given the fact that they are all close friends. Like I said I generally hate cross dating in friend groups and I would rather let them all be single and be friends.

Okay I hope I didn't come across as disrespectful because that was never my intention at all. Also you don't have to answer this if you're done with the discussion.

i am kind of done with the discussion but i’ll make an exception for you since you’re the original anon! you definitely didn’t come across as disrespectful- in fact, the opposite- and i’m so sorry if i ever implied that. i think everyone who contributed, myself included, was frustrated by behavior we had observed and we used your ask as an excuse to talk about it even though your ask was perfectly appropriate. thank you for being so understanding and polite! (also, sorry about your friend and your ex. that sucks.)