#literally his first scene in s2 is him being mean to normal and telling him his cheerleading is useless + he has no friends😭😭😭

[grantwilsonenjoyer]

every time someone says they should have made lark be normals "actual dad" an angel loses its wings

[bylertruth3r]

Mike and Will literally share shoes (and Will might be sleeping in Mike's room) and might not be dating yet when they start dating they're gonna share a whole closet and flirt with each other about how good they look in each other's clothes and just being obnoxious (I will rewatch those scenes so many times) what if they're sharing/swapping shoes because it's the 80's and they're in a really homophobic and conservative town and if they want to give little hints that they're dating and want to openly show it (to at least their friends) they have to be subtle about it? and maybe when they're at home they share clothes without feeling like they have to be careful with how they act around each other and can be openly affectionate (like them in s2)

Thank you for pointing it out @cler1csfink

Confirmation that they're the same shoes and they're both size 10 so yeah they're sharing shoes

and Mike brought these shoes from Hawkins which means the puma suede belong to Will

and in a leaked footage El and Mike broke up/ were already broken up because Mike says "we'll still be friends" and "i wanted to tell you first" which makes me think he might have came out to her (and in that video he was literally wearing his boyfriend's shoes)

video from @nowmemoriees

in s1 during that scene on the train tracks they're friends and in the leaked video they were wearing similar clothes to what they were wearing in that s1 scene where they were friends and could trust each other. i think Mike's gonna come out to her (as gay) there which would explain why El was crying, and why Mike said "i wanted to talk to you first", in s1 Mike said "friends tell the truth" to El and in s5 it's Mike's turn to be honest about himself and maybe he'll tell her he's in love with Will or maybe he'll tell her that he's dating Will

it's the same song that played when Robin came out to Steve, obviously Steve had a crush on Robin but she's a lesbian and can only love him platonically while even though Mike tried to love El romantically he couldn't do it because he's gay and he didn't even bother to close his eyes and kiss her back

plus in a deleted script it says he was mad at himself

and the song playing when Mike and El were kissing in s3 "can't fight this feeling" is about someone being in love with their friend and not knowing what to do about it while already being in a relationship with someone else so it's about Mike being in love with Will and not knowing what to do so he represses it and pushes him away to get over him but then realizing it's not working (which is something he realized at the end of s3) and he's gay and he want on a double date with Will and Lumax after that

and Mike in s4 was trying to be normal and might be into new things (men, because dnd is not new)

and

and in s4 "in the closet at rink o mania" started playing Mike took what Will said "and us?" as romantic and felt the need to clarify that they're friends and Will said they used to be best friends and the camera panned back to Mike plus synth music is his thing since he has "Smalltown Boy" (gay song) as his first song on his spotify playlist, it's a song about a gay man leaving his homophobic town to start a new life and Finn said he wants Mike to leave Hawkins

and he has a "one way" sign pointing to his closet because he's gay and closeted and in his room he has a poster of a shirtless man while the others (Steve, B*lly, and Lucas' "friends") all have women posters because they like women

Mike being obsessed with Superman? and him having a poster of a shirtless man while Steve, B*lly and the tigers all had posters of women in bikinis (because they like girls) Will has a skinny pink panther poster in his room which symbolizes his type in men (Mike) Mike has a shirtless man poster and a buff male dragon poster which symbolizes his type in men (Will) (he's not really buff but he's stronger than Mike) they're each other's type and love each other plus you can see Mike looking at Will's arms during some scenes

also in s3 he was happy about Dustin having a gf and asked him about her but then in s4 when he "finds out" Will has a crush on a "girl" he doesn't ask him about "her" and acts distant (he was pretending he didn't care but he was jealous) and he asked Will about the painting because he was hoping it was for him (it was)

and he realized Will loves him back in the van scene, Mike wants to feel needed and Will needs him, Mike felt lost without Will, Will felt lost without Mike, Will loves him, Mike loves him back, they both think the other doesn't love them, they will prove each other wrong in s5 when Mike finds out Will lied about the painting and loves him back, they love each other the way they want to be loved

and he was so happy to see Will drew a heart on his shield

which is literally an engagement ring, no hands because they'll be more than friends in s5

they've been filming a lot at that farm.. and Ross and his wife said that they enjoyed eyewitness

and Lukas and Mike both have internalized homophobia (Lukas was dating a girl to be normal and then he breaks up with his gf and starts dating Philip,his male best friend)

and if this leak is actually correct there would be another parallel. the episode 2 of s5 is called "the vanishing of ***** Wheeler and if Holly goes missing then Mike and Will are gonna go looking for her in the upside down and maybe they'll kiss there (maybe that's where Mike's gonna get injured)

because in eyewitness Lukas gets injured and his boyfriend stays with him and he kisses his forehead, Lukas' dad sees it (he's ok with it)

and in s2 Mike stayed with Will at the hospital so now it's Will's turn

they've been filming a lot at that farm.. and Ross and his wife said that they enjoyed eyewitness and they filmed at like 3 or 4 different farms (one of them has swings) and they're literally filming at one right now

more s5 leaks and Mike and El staying friends after the break up and Mike being worried for Will <33 and Mike and Robin bonding over their partners being in danger

Will is wearing one of Mike's shirts in s5, Mike wore something similar in s3 it's a gap shirt and Eddie said Mike wears gap shirts and Will has never worn something like this in the previous seasons and he didn't bring that many clothes back to Hawkins so he's gonna have to wear Mike's if he's staying at Mike's (the Wheelers added 2 chairs to their breakfast table and Will's tiger plushie is in Mike's room, it makes me think that they're already dating in the scene because Will is wearing blue yellow and green which are Byler's colors

Noah liking another byler edit? fork found in the kitchen. pic from @iamforbyler from here . there are hints that Mike and Will's first kiss will be in s5 episode 7 (during Jopper's first kiss there were boxes that said MW705, Mike and Will s5 episode 7) they definitely told him to promote Byler again to introduce Byler as boyfriends to the GA and Millie is not promoting mlvn anymore and when they asked her what her favorite pop culture couple was she said the couple from twlight instead of mlvn

Will's wearing Mike's black jeans, the blue shirt looks like something s2 Mike would wear but the undershirt looks like Will's in s4. he's just stealing his boyfriend's clothes atp because Will has never worn black jeans before and he's wearing blue (Mike's color) and Mike's the only one in the party who has worn black jeans and Will might be staying at Mike's because his tiger plushie was in Mike's room and the Wheelers added 2 chairs to their breakfast table plus Will has to stay at Mike's since he doesn't have a house in Hawkins and the cabin is too small for all the Byers to live in.

maybe he's wearing Mike's black jeans from s5 instead of the s4 ones but either way they're still Mike's jeans since Will has never worn black jeans before s5 and Mike has, Will is stealing his boyfriend's clothes, plus Mike is wearing Will's shoes in s5 <33

Byler is so obviously gonna happen even without all those proofs because they gave mlvn the stancy storyline of Nancy not being able to say "I love you" to Steve because she's in love with Jonathan and they didn't give that storyline to Jopper, Lumax and Jancy or even Duzie which are healthy couples who don't lie about who they are to each other and never felt unloved by their partners, and Mike wants to feel needed and Will needs him and El doesn't and Millie said El realized she's her own superhero and that she's gonna figure out who she is without Mike and Millie is not promoting mlvn anymore

Mike and Will spent s3 acting like they were the exes because in s2 Mike was overly affectionate with Will but he stopped doing that when he got a gf because he saw what he did as romantic so in his mind being affectionate with Will even just hugging him or just holding his hand like he did in s2 would be cheating because he's in love with Will and he's gay

Mike becomes less and less interested in El the more feminine she becomes, it becomes more difficult for him to pretend he's straight i mean he "fell in love" with her when she looked like a boy and people kept calling her a boy..

Mike probably thought she was a boy at first, everyone kept calling El the boy with the buzzcut at first in s1 and Mike said "that's not Will" instead of "that's a girl" and interesting thing is the more feminine El becomes the less interested in her Mike becomes, he probably thought El was a boy at first and she was wearing a yellow shirt (Will's color) maybe she reminded him of Will?

I mean Mike being gay aside who would you rather for him to be with?

A, with someone who doesn't understand him and he feels like he has to change himself to be with and who makes him feel insicure?

B, with someone who he feels like he can fully be himself with and who understands him and who puts him on the first place and makes him feel loved? B right? with Will

Jancy had their "we're just friends" moment and they kissed in 2 and Jopper had their "it's just 2 friends getting together for a nice dinner" moment and they kissed in s4 , Lumax had their "she's not my girlfriend" moment and they kissed in s2 and Byler had their "we're friends, we're friends" moment (started by Mike who doesn't know Will is gay) and they'll kiss in s5, there were no moments like these between Dustin and Lucas because they're not in love with each other

Byler's first cameo in a book and they're kissing and holding hands<33 it's about Alina wanting to ask a guy out and she catches the guy (Ben) kissing his boyfriend (Janos), there's carved "W+M" on the tree and a "byler" sign in the second pic, they probably asked permission to Netflix and people who worked on st to add them which makes Byler already canon? the author of the book reversed the arrow on Mike's pocket to point at Will.. and it's close to his heart.. that's adorable

pic from here @sususu34

originally El was supposed to die in s1 (I'm glad they didn't kill her) and they were already planning to make Will in love with Mike since s1? plus if they wanted to make Will move on they would've given him a bf in the previous seasons like with Dustin and Suzie because Max didn't like Dustin back. So basically Mike and Will are gonna get together in s5

JEALOUS MIKE WHEELER WELCOME BACK, Will getting his own love triangle as he should, or maybe it's just Mike since it says "a love interest" not "a new love interest".. I kinda want to see Mike being in pain for a bit tho since I had to witness Will being in pain for 4 seasons, I kinda want a guy to flirt with Will and Will tries to get to know the character to move on from Mike and Mike gets mad and jealous about it, although they did say there were no new characters in it.. and the only new boy is Derek who's Holly's age so maybe the love interest is just Mike, and Mike is gonna be Will's boyfriend, they literally just confirmed Byler because they said Will is getting a boyfriend and they said they won't add any major characters in s5 so that means Mike is gonna be Will's boyfriend

[heartbreakprincewille]

Marcus, And Why The S2 Love Triangle Worked (For Me)

Okay, so I had thoughts since a LONG time about why I don't mind the S2 love triangle as much I thought I would, but I never had coherent thoughts to articulate them into a post.

I'm personally not much of a fan of love triangles in media, because there is a trend in media since quite a long time where the good-hearted second love interest gets their heart broken by the protagonist, who chooses "their true love", or the first love interest because they are "the one". And I feel really bad for the one who gets left behind for reasons they have no control over.

But I did not expect to not mind the S2 love triangle. And actually the more I think about it, Simon needed something like this to realize the depth of his feelings for Wille. Simon needed an upend of emotions in order to achieve a satisfactory balance in his and Wilhelm's relationship. He needed to realize how much being a prince affects Wilhelm's life as much as Wilhelm needed to realize Simon's need for autonomy in their relationship.

As for Marcus, I personally think that what sets Marcus apart from a typical, cookie-cutter third wheel is the fact that Marcus's presence represented Simon's expectations from a relationship, rather than heightening Wilhelm's flaws.

Marcus represented not only what Simon craved from his relationship with Wille, but also the things he thought that he needed, when he actually doesn't. Simon wanted to enjoy normal moments of happiness with Wille in public but he couldn't, like the karaoke scene with Marcus, or Simon bringing Marcus as his date to the ball, or Marcus kissing him publicly. All these moments tell something about Simon's true desires from a potential relationship with Wilhelm, or any person Simon genuinely wants to have feelings for. Marcus was more like a placeholder for the time being, since Simon was really angry and heartbroken over Wille. Marcus did not bring something new to the table. He was just someone who grew up in a similar family background as Simon, and whose ideas of hanging out with a crush aligned with Simon's. That's it. Just because they have similar ideas about something, it does not mean they will also align as people. Plus Marcus is also not a one-dimensional "nice guy" just like August is not a one-dimensional "villain". He also has flaws and shortcomings that ultimately doom him in the story and does not let him realize his own part in his unsuccessful attempt to date Simon.

A cookie-cutter third wheel also has a defining feature- they exist in the story to emphasize on the first love interest's flaws, which makes the protagonist reconsider their love for the first love interest initially. Yes, Marcus did things for Simon which Simon wished he could do with Wille, but they don't represent Wilhelm's character flaws. His inability to have normal dating experiences with Simon stems from him being literal royalty, and no matter how much Wilhelm wants it too, he is not able to give that to Simon. And a major part of Simon's arc (in connection to his relationship with Wilhelm) was realizing Wilhelm's delicate and stifling relationship with his position. And although Simon is still not fully aware of what it entails to date a royal, atleast he has developed the empathy to understand it all.

And it also makes a difference that Simon is not the protagonist, he's actually the deuteragonist. Usually the protagonist is the one who has to make a choice and we only have access to their thoughts and feelings, not the other two. But here, not only our protagonist (Wilhelm) is one of the choices here, we also know exactly how he feels about Simon, just like we got to know how Simon feels about both Wille and Marcus. Wille still has flaws, but he also works on them and displays great accountability, something Simon actually needed, way more than karaoke dates and everything (although them enjoying the little things in life is something that can be so endearing to me). Simon chooses Wille because Wilhelm takes responsibility of his flaws and mistakes and tries to put in the effort their fragile relationship needed.

Not saying Marcus was not hurt in the process, but the burden of the doom does not lies entirely with Simon. Marcus has as much of a hand in dooming their fling as much as Simon. Overall, Simon and Marcus were a good match on paper, but Simon eventually realized that there is much more meaning to the text of his life than he ever imagined.

[robynrocksforbrains]

What do you think about the whole Mike was only so protective of Will in S2 because El was gone thing? Do you think he’s going to ignore Will again in S5 and be super focused on El? I’ve seen recent discourse about this and it’s making me sad.

Anon, full disclosure I haven't seen this discourse recently. But I'm gonna take your word for it and tell you what I think. This is gonna be kinda long because I am incapable of being normal.

I think anyone who thinks that this is the case has a very very poor understanding of Mike. And also a poor understanding of literally the entirety of s2 and s4.

Mike cares about Will, and he cares about El. It's possible for him to care about both of them at the same time. The only reason he has a hard time balancing his relationship with both of them is because he's denying the true nature of his feelings for both of them. With El, he's trying to convince himself that his platonic feelings are romantic. With Will, he's trying to convince himself that his romantic feelings are platonic. It is my belief that he is fully aware of his romantic feelings for Will, and his lack thereof for El. But being aware of something and accepting something are two different things. However, by the end of s4 I think it's clear he's headed in the direction of acceptance.

So, about s2:

Mike is protective of Will because he's protective of Will. Simple as that. His fierce protectiveness of Will is established in s1.

We see it when Hopper is first questioning the boys about the last time they saw Will. Mike is insistent that he wants to be there. He doesn't just wanna help by answering questions, he wants to be out there actively searching.

We see it when he defends Will against the comments Nancy and Ted make about him at the dinner table. "All because Mike's friend got lost in the woods" "oh so this is Will's fault?" // "See what happens?" "What happens when what?"

We see it when he is the one to plan to go out to where Will's bike was found and search the woods.

We see it when he confronts Troy after the assembly and pushes him down

Mike being protective of Will in s2 is just a continuation of an already established trait. We just didn't see it in the same way in s1 because Will wasn't there. In s1 it was almost like Mike was being protective of an idea, but in s2 he's being protective of a real and tangible thing. He's not just protecting the belief and hope that Will is still out there, he's protecting WILL.

And that isn't because El is gone, his protectiveness of Will persisted throughout s1. El was there and he was still protective of Will. So El's absence cannot be a cause of his protectiveness of Will. However, the intensity of it was likely influenced by the events of the previous year, which would include watching El "die". But his behavior regarding Will definitely has more to do with what happened to Will than with what happened to El.

I think that if El was present in s2, he still would've been just as protective of Will. Because that's just who he is.

Now, about s5:

He's not going to ignore Will in favor of El. Anyone who thinks that definitely just blatantly ignored his entire s4 arc.

I mean, Mike and Will's s4 arcs were almost entirely dedicated to fixing the damage that s3 did to their relationship. Mike apologizes to Will for how he acted since he got to Lenora, but there's also a sense that he's apologizing for more than that. He says "this last year". He's not mentioning anything specific, but we know what happened. Will knows what happened. And although it still should be, and likely will be, explicitly addressed, this is a start.

I kinda think that the "cool" "cool" scene is when Mike starts to prove to the audience that he's worth Will's love. Because if s3 didn't happen, I don't think there would be doubts. If s2 Mike was also s3 Mike, I don't think anyone would be saying "Will deserves better". But s3 did happen. I love Mike, but he did mess up. He did treat Will like shit. And that should be acknowledged by the characters and by the plot. So when Mike apologizes for his behavior, and subtly addresses s3, and then Will decides that it's worth it to bring his painting - which is a declaration of love - it's a confirmation that this was a turning point for Mike. This isn't a fluke. Mike wants to be better, and he's trying to be better, and that's going to continue for the rest of the season, and it will carry into s5. This conversation, which marks a real change for Mike, includes the line "I have no idea what's gonna happen next. But whatever it is, I think it'll be easier if we're together. A team. Friends. Best friends." And then Will makes the decision to bring what is a plot device for byler's development specifically. Like it's pretty clear what behavior the plot is rewarding.

"I think maybe I was worrying too much about El... And I don't know maybe I feel like I lost you or something" is worth mentioning here because not only is this Mike explicitly stating that his s3 behavior was a deviation from the norm for him, but also the plot rewards this confession. It rewards Mike's vulnerability (although tentative) in this moment. Mike's vulnerability is returned tenfold in the van scene. And since we know Mike's vulnerability was rewarded, it only makes sense for the same to be true for Will's. The painting is the catalyst, Will's vulnerability (although veiled) has to be rewarded by the plot.

And then again, in their last scene together, Mike reaffirms that they're a team. Yeah, you can say that when he says "we will" he's referring to everyone involved. But he says this while firmly grasping Will's shoulder. He wants Will to know he's here, and he's not going anywhere. Yes, it's about everyone, but underneath that there's a sort of desperation for Will to believe him. He's determined to live up to what he said in Dear Billy. He wants them to be a team. So when he says "we" he means everyone involved, but there's an unspoken "you and me".

AND THEN AGAIN, in the final shot, they're together. But more than that, Mike makes a CHOICE to stay by Will's side. He's there because he wants to be with Will. Nothing is stopping him from walking to stand by El's side. But he doesn't do that. He stays with Will because he told Will they were a team and he meant it. I could go on and on about what this means from a storytelling perspective. About how there is obvious thought put into using this to tell the audience what to expect. But from a character perspective, thinking of Mike as a real human with his own thoughts and motivations, it's clear what he's thinking in this moment. They're facing something terrifying, and he knows exactly where he wants to be while he faces it, and that's by Will's side. This scene is undoubtedly foreshadowing for s5, and it's very reasonable to conclude that it means his priority will be Will.

TL;DR Mike was protective of Will in s2 because that's just what is natural for him. And his priority in s5 is going to be Will, because that's what s4 very deliberately set up.

[byersfanclub]

call it controversial, I'm speaking my mind and if you don’t agree with me then so be it, atp idc what ppl may think about my opinion on this matter but as someone who views mike wheeler as a closeted gay person, meaning mlm, he is a boy who likes other boys and that’s it then I’m also someone who believes mike has never had actual romantic feelings for el at ANY point in the show. I don’t sit around and harass people who believe otherwise. 

mike is not even the FIRST person to show el kindness once she escaped the lab, it’s benny hammond. mike is the second person to truly show el some kindness and basic human decency by allowing her into his home and getting her clean, dry clothes. it’s something I hope anyone would do for anyone in that sort of situation BUT don’t forget it’s also mike’s idea to “send her back to pennhurst or wherever she came from” and comes up with the plan on the spot right then and there to have her go out the back door and knock on the front door and his mom will figure out what to do. they never had any plans on keeping el around until they found out she knew who will was, that he was alive and that she had fucking superpowers. I get kinda sick of ppl trying to twist this around. this is factual, it’s not some anti-m1leve3n thing ppl made up, it is canon. to say mike never wanted to get rid of el at first is just a straight up lie, his main priority was finding will, but he wasn’t going to be an asshole and leave a girl outside in the pouring rain.  

all mike cares about in s1 is finding will. I find it odd that some ppl don’t believe this, whether you think he could have grew a crush on el or not. he literally starts to disassociate, begs to help look for him, sneaks out of his home at night, bikes home and sobs into his moms arms when he thinks will is dead, is outright RUDE to el afterwards until she proves that will is still alive. 

both Lucas and Nancy say things that try to allude to mike liking el, which literally has nothing to fucking do with the plot of s1 AT ALL and they literally have no scenes that I can genuinely go back and look at and be like “aww that's so cute and romantic, I hope they’ll kiss and end up together” 

their kiss was never scripted and it wasn’t even meant to happen, it was something millie suggested and its funny that they chose to do it right after she asks if mike will be like her fucking BROTHER and he goes “no, well, I guess it’s sort of the same” like my brother in christ in what world is a date/boyfriend the same as a brother? he’s not stupid, even 12 year olds know the difference between a brother and a boyfriend. I genuinely think it’s because mike has never CARED about that sort of thing before, because he’s just a kid who wants to play games with his friends, uninterested in girls and dating in general. 

so, when I say that mike unintentionally uses el as his “beard” it’s not meant to be insulting towards el, because el is also using mike to try and be a normal girl. they are both just trying to be normal when both of them know they AREN’T. 

el is the first girl not immediately grossed out by mike, it’s because she doesn’t view him as anything other than a person, she’s not thinking about him romantically at all, she’s a 12 yr old girl that just escaped being in a scientific lab her whole life, romance isn’t going to be on the forefront of her mind, she probably doesn’t even know wtf romantic love even is. you think they’re showing Casablanca in the Hawkins national lab? I don’t think so. 

s2 shows mikes lack of interest in girls even more, and ppl using the reasoning that its because he “loves el” like idk how to tell you this, he knew her FOR ONE WEEK and she barely spoke the entire time and mike was focused on will all of s1. be so for real. really. his lack of interest in girls comes in the form of things more subtle like the dragons lair scene, which has mike and will off to the side, blank faced as dustin and lucas sort of duel for princess daphne. then there’s more upfront moments like mike being completely uninterested in max, while even will seems to be at least a little curious about her (ofc not romantically like dustin and lucas) 

don't even get me started on mikes monologue to will in s2 being 10x more romantic than mike’s “love confession” monologue in s4 which fell flat on 90% of the audience (on purpose, I see u duffers)

the snowball scene isn’t meant to be a romantic scene for m1lev3n but it gets interpreted as one because of they way they film it, and it’s literally done that way ON PURPOSE. they are tricking you, me, the entire audience into believing mike is so upset because el isn’t there. but his reactions to will getting asked to dance and afterwards (with dustin also being upset over Lucas and max) are clear. then they show us Nancy asking dustin to dance along with el showing up to the snowball to dance with mike? 

The ending of s2 solidified mike using el as a cover for his queerness, to be normal, because he was aware that he was DIFFERENT. this is why m1lev3n is so insufferable to people in s3 because its written to be insufferable. they don’t want you to like it. to finally see mike and el as a couple? it’s annoying, ppl don’t like it, the characters themselves are over it and even el herself. 

then there’s will and mikes fight scene which is 10x more breakup coded than m1lev3ns ACTUAL breakup? bro had mike sobbing and throwing up as he biked across town in the pouring rain to apologize, meanwhile all mike did was eat Doritos and burp while complaining abt el breaking up with him, calling her a different species and such. he didn’t actually care deep down, it was more annoying and frustrating that she broke up with him than emotional because he didn’t love her romantically, he’s just mad that he lost his cover that keeps him appearing as normal as possible. 

the ending of s3 solidifies to me that el is ALSO using mike to be and feel normal, because they’d been broken up for months at this point and she suddenly feels the need to kiss him and tell him she loves him too? while mike literally tries to avoid remembering the shit he said earlier in the season, because he didn’t mean it and if he did, he wouldn’t have acted the way he fucking did in s4. BFFR. el only wanted mike back because she lost hopper. 

hoppers letter is meant to be familiar love between el and hopper and it’s meant to allude to the growing romantic tension between mike and will as well, in stranger things, there’s double, triple, quadruple meanings to everything and this is one of them. mike KNOWS he does not love el, he knows this in s2, he knows this during s3, he knows this coming into s4. mike is desperate to not lose her as his cover because as much as mike is “himself” back in Hawkins, he still can’t stop thinking about will because Hawkins isn’t the same without him. he knows he’s thinking about will too much, that he worries about el so much because he’s unable to face his true feelings that he has for will and not her and mike believes that el genuinely loves him (she doesn’t). 

this brings me to believe their official split is going to be a lot more mutual than ppl believe. el has come to terms that her and mike are over during nina, I believe el suspects/knows that mike is gay/likes will. their sbp talk paralleling jack and joey from Dawsons creek is almost too spot on for it not to mean something, especially to know will still pining and jealous over them right after it. 

in conclusion, im tired of pretending I ever thought mike and el were ever a cute ship, they weren’t. there was no spark between them for me and many others. it was like they were being forced into my face and I think the duffers did this with so much intention. not only did they straightbait robin and steve so well, but them “shoving” a straight ship into our face in the way mainstreams shows get criticized by homophobes for gay ships. it’s no wonder one of their favorite shows is Dawsons creek. 

mike wheeler is gay and never liked el. el hopper got caught up in mike’s internal conflict and also latched onto him for a sense of security and to feel like a normal teenage girl. 

fin. 

[frostluvrs]

almost every portwell literally does not give a fuck about gina and we all knew this but it’s been proven so much after ep 5 😭😭 i was going to wait to say something but they’ll probably be making up in 3x06 so i want to say it now while the gina slander is still up and running.

“gina is being immature she needs to communicate with him ” this is her first relationship and she’s 16 and she HAS been communicating with him. he’s the first person she’s been going to with anything. she’s been asking him if he’s alright and if everything in general is alright. he just says yes and talk to val about it instead. she has been more than obvious she’s upset and he’s either being purposefully oblivious and/or he can’t read her AT ALL. asking RICKY what’s wrong and if his own gf is mad at him (after taking digs at him and their friendship for 2 days straight) instead of continuing to try to communicate and get her to open up? 😭😭

“she’s making a scene in front of everyone” and getting mad at her for talking about it in front of everyone. so was ej right for making nasty digs at gina and ricky for hanging out for 2 days straight? implying they’re sneaking around and then trying to tell ricky he got lost with her purposely? in front of everyone embarrassing them both but especially his gf who doesn’t even know he’s jealous of ricky and has no idea what’s going on. he can be jealous that’s normal but not the way he goes about it. and then they say it’s character regression but he’s been like this since s1 and even s2 (with cancelling his date with gina) where he assumes something and then doesn’t communicate his feelings and self sabotages instead. he never grew from it.

also let’s talk about how they want want to claim she’s been emotionally cheating on him this whole time. but i thought she’s over ricky? is that just not true anymore? and if it’s not true then they shouldn’t be together at all considering she never got over him? gina and ricky have not been intentionally flirting at all they’ve been friends. only during the duet did she flirt with ricky and i support her!

they don’t understand why she’s so upset either. it’s not overreacting and it is a big deal to her. she’s 1.) been abandoned by so many ppl in her life (with them never showing up or showing up but not staying) and she has trust issues because of it 2.) she said she hates liars and he KNEW that but continued to put it off. the fact he was going to tell her is not good enough he needed to set everything aside to tell her and he didn’t. he’s doing this “for them” but cant he bothered to communicate with her since they got to camp he’s been going to val instead and probably now miss jenn instead of gina. every single one of their conversations this season has been about him and her supporting him but she’s not supportive? he needs to be a grown up (yes he’s only 18 that’s hardly a grown up but i mean in the context of what he’s going through right now) and face his dad and put his foot down with the play. gladly he seems to be doing that by admitting he needs help to miss jenn.

does her doing the same things he’s doing make it right? no but shifting it all on her and acting like it’s not a reaction to the wrong things HE’S been doing is crazy. he’s been in so many relationships he can take the reigns and fix this. but it doesn’t really matter because at the end of the day it all goes back to them just not getting each other at all and them being in 2 different life stages

they “loved” gina during 2b (once she was away from ricky) and especially during 3a because she was a watered down version of herself who was trying to make herself the perfect gf. now that she’s showing her true self and what has made her her since s1 and is not perfect anymore they’re turning on her because they never liked her in the first place.

she’s not gina 1.0 or 2.0 or having character regression she’s GINA like she said in 3x02 and THEY DONT LIKE HER. but we all know they’ll pretend to like her again when they make up and potentially say they love each other.

[thesherrinfordfacility]

Longwinded anon again (thanks for the kind words!): You've brought out a few things in your last posts that crystalized some of my thoughts about the hole I complained about in one of my first posts here, left by the decision to never acknowledge that Crowley successfully tempts Aziraphale to try to kill the Antichrist. After S1 aired, Gaiman commented in an interview that Crowley does not have an actual character arc in S1. He is at the end what he was at the beginning. And my response at the time was, well, wait, he does have a transformative moment in the novel, this is strange. I think S2 in fact explores that lack of arc in an interesting way, and it /does/ think about the larger moral issues involved in the Antichrist temptation without referencing it directly.

Both S1 and S2 rely heavily on mirroring, included warped mirroring, to approach narrative structure and character development. In S1, after Aziraphale's discorporation, Crowley tries to reconstruct their normal dynamic--Crowley plays the white knight, Aziraphale the damsel in distress--on his arrival at the airfield, when he swaggers over from the burning Bentley and assures Aziraphale that he'll take care of the soldier ("Leave it to me"). Then the script /literally/ blows up the dynamic when the Bentley explodes, Crowley gets distracted, and Aziraphale has to take care of the soldier himself. And, of course, at the end the dynamic has been altered, because they save each other in the bodyswap. This looks like the relationship is now on a mutual egalitarian footing! Hooray!

...except S2 demonstrates that Crowley /liked/ the original dynamic, and he spends the season trying to manhandle (demonhandle?) Aziraphale back into it. Aziraphale asks for help with Gabriel, but Crowley interprets "help" as an excuse to play the strong protector again, through a combination of forced innocence (Crowley spends this season /not/ telling Aziraphale some important things about Gabriel and Heaven that Aziraphale needed and deserved to know) and, in the lead-up to the demon attack, outright dismissiveness of Aziraphale's ability to handle the situation. You referenced the dialogue there, which mirrors the "Leave it to me" of S1. But in S1, Aziraphale /was/ willing to leave it to Crowley, whereas here Aziraphale tries to assert his own capability and Crowley brushes it off. Nina, the character self-aware about being trapped in an abusive situation, temporarily stops the plot to call this out, and while Aziraphale cheerfully admits to being aware of what's going on (something left ambiguous in S1), unlike Nina he doesn't admit or doesn't see that what makes Crowley "happy" rests on perceiving Aziraphale as less capable and less powerful. Both physically (Aziraphale needs Crowley to fight for him) and psychologically (Aziraphale needs Crowley to protect him from full knowledge of his execution and from any knowledge that Heaven might murder him for helping Gabriel). I know that the fanfic community has quickly glommed onto "Aziraphale must apologize to the poor wronged demon" plots, but Crowley's inability to think himself out of this inegalitarian dynamic contributes directly to the break-up at the end of ep6, not least because we see him /help/ maintain Aziraphale's innocence about the extent of Heaven's malice.

good morning (well, it was morning when i started) LWA!!!✨ no problem at all, you're very welcome!!!

(further ask screenshots under the cut).

oh gosh yes i remember the ask you mean (everyone else, i believe it's this one). stating the obvious, if my previous posts criticising him are anything to go by, but the whole scene where crowley tempts aziraphale re: antichrist really does unnerve me, and was one of the key reasons why I think - although I do genuinely think crowley is a very empathetic character - i've always gravitated to aziraphale more. the parallel narrative of nina, with her story of surviving and escaping psychological and emotional abuse, really puts the spotlight on the level of aziraphale's naivety and indoctrination with anyone or anything that he believes confers any kind of worth onto him.

trauma from abuse does not stop when one escapes it, because it truly does alter your brain chemistry and emotional make-up into being more susceptible to finding any alternative that will give you a sense of value again. others have clearly remarked on it, but that is the most revelatory moment as concerns nina, for me; her knowledge of self and that she knows her own value, despite her recent abusive experience, is what diverts her parallel storyline with maggie into an adjacent position to aziraphale and crowley's.

and that's a really powerful point; i know that many people have remarked on the correlation between aziraphale and religious brainwashing (especially as concerns its relationship to queer identity, which is very, very valid), but i think what some may be refusing to also see is that aziraphale, in a very unique and particular way, is potentially experiencing some small, or large depending on your perspective, level of similar abusive behaviour (bracing myself for impact re: that statement).

i despair for aziraphale throughout most of the show, in that i interpret him as not only feeling that he's not enough ("that's okay, as long as i'm enough for crowley to see any worth in me") but also because he can't seem to see that anyone that wholly cares about him should be making him feel that he is more than enough, and accepting of every part of him - even his shortcomings. he shouldn't need to be manipulated into anything; he is by large an inherently good and loving person (as far as we've been shown), is shown to gravitate towards those that might need his help (*cough* crowley), and that the fact that he can't seem to see that if others do not trust or like him enough to be honest and vulnerable with him, when he hasn't really done anything to make them believe that they can't, that is entirely their issue/failing, not his.

such, to me, is why his decision to break away and follow his own path to heaven, following an opportunity to do something not only largely altruistic but also something that might help him develop a sense of value entirely on his own, is exactly the right decision for him to make when taking all of this emotional and psychological context into consideration.

as discussed in the last ask, crowley does appear to have a tendency for making aziraphale seem or feel lesser than him, by way of the dance (humiliation), disingenuous apologies (gaslighting), keeping secrets (imbalanced power dynamic) and constantly saving him and dismissing his ability to save himself (removing agency). crowley in contrast to aziraphale has his own brand of insecurity but that is in my opinion not rooted in a lack of self-worth. it is rooted in knowing that he had and has much to give, but it being rejected.

i hate to defer to psychological terminology that is innately human when referring to supernatural beings, but for lack of a better option; crowley's cognitive dissonance in ep6 of his belief ("helping to improve heaven is useless and they'll never change") and his action (manipulates aziraphale into trying to stay with him, ignoring aziraphale's own wants and aspirations) result in his choosing to believe that aziraphale doesn't love him for who he is - choosing the rejection narrative - rather than choosing to trust in aziraphale that they have the ability, together, to make a change that will benefit them as much as everyone else (which is what aziraphale is inviting him to).

the fact that this is rooted in rejection is key. i think it's fairly clear that crowley thinks himself to be of a higher status than aziraphale, harking back to his angel era (or at least purposefully tries to maintain the illusion that he is, rather than accept that they're - you know - equal). the overwhelming need, it seems, to plough on ahead and force aziraphale to keep pace with him whether he likes it or not, speaks to me of his committing to a 'failsafe' action that will protect him from being rejected, regardless of whatever good or clever thing he does, and this will naturally originate from the fall. as you say, aziraphale is similarly wrapped up in asserting his own superiority, especially where morality is concerned and thinking that he knows best for crowley in offering him restoration, but again - I feel like this stems from insecurity, especially in the face of a demon that is, to him, utterly brilliant and smart and sly, but also good and kind and brave.

neither are in the right - both are very much in the wrong - for even entertaining this mindset, but i do feel that once again crowley tips the scale on the morality front here. both were made to suffer from various trauma at the hands of heaven and hell, but the fact that crowley seems to perpetuate it with aziraphale (however much with original good intention, and perhaps without malicious intention) and so successfully to the point that aziraphale a) doesn't even really see it until ep6, and b) if aziraphale does see it, he possibly feels that it all that he deserves, is incredibly alarming.

in terms of a resolution, LWA✨, you've beaten me to the point i was going to make when your first ask came in! we are seeing two characters that were originally conceptualised as one, and now broken apart (both literally by way of the character design as well as in the narrative). i therefore find that the body swap in s1 was indeed the big hint to the audience (and should have been a big hint to aziraphale and crowley) that they are reflections of each other, and that is by extension the solution.

them simply forgiving each other and having meaningful communication is not going to be the Big Solution that makes them connect again. to me, there needs to be - after an actual, heartfelt apology and subsequent communication - a full, complete acceptance of each other, of their individual and conflicting minds, fears, wants, and ideologies, and understanding that they do not need, in fact, to be in conflict with each other, but instead are literally built as being complementary halves of the same coin✨

edit because i didn't address it: in my mind, my own personal, metaphorical jury is out on why the joint miracle had the result that it did, but the concept of it being literally because it's aziraphale and crowley working in harmony together is really intriguing!!!

[will80sbyers]

I used to think Mike was bi too, but S3 made me look at Mike and Eleven's relationship very differently. Outside of him calling her pretty one time in the first season, there aren't any moments where he seems genuinely attracted to her. He keeps his hands to himself when he kisses her and removes her hands from him in S3. There were also the two times (S1 and S2) where El leaned in to kiss him and he just froze up.

Now, just because I don't think Mike is/was attracted to Eleven and was misjudging his feelings or trying to be normal, doesn't mean he still can't be bi. However, I don't recall him ever finding another girl attractive.

Meanwhile, there are posters of muscular men in his room, Mike going to the wrestling club as a first pick when looking for a sub, him referring to El as Superman instead of a female hero, the focus on him when opening the sauna, the parallels to characters in other movies/shows that turned out to be gay, etc.

If he ends up being bisexual, that's totally okay. I don't think that takes away from him being Will's soulmate at all and yes, internalized homophobia isn't exclusive to gays. However, if people analyze evidence that supports him being gay and are confident and passionate about it, I think they should be allowed to feel that way. There are hostile truthers on both sides and people that claim ___ erasure. I don't think we should make one side out to be worse than the other. Let's just be supportive of the fact that the boy isn't straight.

That being said, it's been a while since I read up on bi Mike evidence and I'd be interested to hear more about it. I'm always interested in trying to understand him in different ways.

so because you said that you were interested in hearing more about it:

about the pretty thing that's not exactly true, Mike calls Eleven pretty a few times and tells her she's beautiful too during the snowball dance, he looks interested in her romantically to me, he's just awkward because they are kids and it's embarrassing to approach first relationships... I think Eleven leans in because she watched something romantic on TV (I could be wrong about this I have to rewatch to be sure) and Mike had just called her pretty again before that if my memory is correct (?)

then he kisses her first and then the second almost kiss is after they had already kissed but it's when she had just come back and I think he was just a bit awkward about the whole thing (I also think that him and Will spending so much time together in s2 made him a bit confused)

so to me it looks like he is interested in girls too... he meets Eleven in s1 and he has a crush on her so it's consistent that he wouldn't find other girls, like Max, interesting because he is stuck on her...

Mike was also kind of in a limbo of grieving her and hoping she would come back... he thought he had lost her for one year and that's pretty impacful imo... ( also bisexual ppl don't like every person they meet lol )

the other boys seem more interested but it could be because they did not meet a girl they liked in s1 so they talked more about girls bc of that

or Mike could be demisexual and fixated on her because he had an emotional bond with her but in the first seasons it's just a crush between little kids anyway so it's just sweet

for other hints that he is in fact interested in girls I think he tries to make Will dance with the girl because he thinks that Will could like her - because Mike likes girls too

he has a poster of an half naked girl too in his room but to me all these little hints about the posters are about him liking guys too... because for the girl part he literally already has a girlfriend lmao

I think they made Mike interrupt the kissing singing and all that because they just needed to stop that scene because having kids on screen kissing for that long is already tedious to watch

but I think they made them kiss because they wanted to show that all that El and Mike have in common is the fact that they liked each other a bit and liked kissing... it was basically puberty starting..

they made them codependent to make it clear that there is something wrong in the relationship and make Mike realize after that he actually couldn't say I love you to her because he doesn't love her like that, he cares for her but he is not in love with her, she makes him feel insecure and inferior and they are just incompatible and toxic in a relationship

also I think that in the fight he has with Will in s3 he was telling the truth, he says "It's not my fault that you don't like girls" meaning -> it's not my fault that you don't like girls... yet, I do... one day you will too because we are growing up!

the thing about supermen etc is because he likes boys too, the parallels and the movies associated with Mike could be about Will too but they could also be pointing to being queer in general... also the main parallels in the show like the Vickie and Robin one associated him to bisexuality because Vickie is bi

the sauna thing where he doesn't comment like Will could be because he's bi so he feels awkward about men too like he does for the lingerie for women because they are starting puberty in that season

about the s3 finale kiss I've answered here

I also believe he doesn't have internalized homophobia, he was just conditioned by heteronormativity and he's just clueless about his feelings for Will and doesn't understand yet, he's just starting now in s4 to notice Will in a more than friendly way and he's low key panicking about it lol but he also thinks that Will is straight and if he stays with Eleven he can ignore that part of himself... he now has to find out about the painting to understand his real feelings for Will!

again the thing about the wrestling club could simply be there because he is bi so he likes men too

I don't think and never said that people should not be passionate and talk about gay mike theories, I still read all of those theories when I find them, I've watched the tiktoks about it too and some are good theories that could be true!

I'm happy with every hc for Mike I just think it's more probable that he will be bi or demi because of how they constructed the story + how I see the story when I rewatch the show and also because I don't think they can make the audience have sympathy for him if it turns out that he never even liked Eleven a bit...

I know that it's completely normal irl and no one should feel guilty for dating while being confused but I don't know if they can pull it off in a good way in the show, it would be very complicated because the audience loves Eleven and it would feel like a betrayal because Mike and El are two main characters... but if they did like each other and just growing up their feelings changed it would be easier to relate to that because they probably had that experience in their life...

but they could still do it and I would be really happy to see it on screen if they did it well..

I just think they never planned for it because I interpret the scenes in a different way, to me it seems like they wanted the Mitskivan scenes to be a young romance, they like each other but they are young and growing up they find out that they are not compatible and Mike realizes that he always had feelings for Will too and his feelings for Will are so strong that he in the end chooses to be with Will because he realizes that he is in love with him!

of course with Eleven's blessing because she will realize too that they are not compatible (and I think she did in s4)

or they could make El break up with him and he realizes he loves Will after the time jump, after having mourned his relationship with Eleven and then when they talk it's like in little women where Laurie says to Jo that he loves her but the love he feels for Amy is different 💞

If you want to read more about this theory there is also my fixed post in the blog 😊

one thing for sure... that boy is not straight and the only proof we need is that his favorite holiday is Halloween 👻

[charmixpower]

Actually, I've been thinking about the Trix's villain degradation and I thought up a little Au where the Trix literally degrade (along side their writing XD)

In s2, Darcy stays in light rock monastery. She refuses to leave. Darkar creeps her out, she genuinely cared about Riven and feels really bad about him jumping off of Cloud Tower, and she has completely ruined any chance of her being normal and having any kind of relationship for a plan that didn't even work. So she just stays, not going with Darkar and her sisters.

In s3, Stormy stays in the Omega Dimension. She's a lot more dedicated that Darcy was, so she helps Icy fight off the serpents and free Valtor, but that's it. She misses Darcy, and doesn't want to keep doing shit that wastes their time and energy for an unachievable goal. Especially not working under someone who could betray her again, no way.

Icy is with the Ancestral Witches in the first movie instead of Mandragora. More viscous, less in control, and just generally having a third act break down the entire movie before her final defeat. Final agni kai style.

Bonus scenes:

Darcy is well aware that the first movie is a trap and tries to warn Riven when he comes to visit her, but Liliss stops her with powerful mental pains.

Riven visits her...I wouldn't say often but more than every now and then. He visits mainly because he feels that she's more like him that she first came off as and he's low key hoping that she'd try to redeem herself like he's been working towards every since the s1 finale. Most of his hope comes from Darcy not leaving with the Trix, but she refuses to do anything that will get her let out from the monastery.

Darcy can't bring herself to get out because that would mean people would expect her to stand up to Icy and Stormy and she refuses under all circumstances. She also can't bring herself to commit more crimes so she's kinda in stasis for s2-3+m1.

Tecna and Stormy meet in the Omega Dimension. Tecna doesn't try to fight her, and just keeps her distance because "not actively a threat" doesn't mean "trustworthy". Stormy might of helped her for a price, but Tecna wouldn't make a deal with her.

Stormy has a little mafia going on in the Omega Dimension.

The Ice Serpent (that holds the Omega Dimension's magical core) recognizes Tecna as it's savior (because I think that would be cool) so the snow on the Omega Dimension tends to wisp around her because the magical core likes her. Stormy nicknames her the Princess of the Omega Dimension because of this. Tecna hates the nickname. Stormy doubles down.

Icy gets increasingly unstable as this goes on which lead to Stormy leaving because she couldn't deal with Icy lashing out at her constantly.

Half way though the final battle, Icy steals what's left of the Ancestral Witches power doing the super!Trix form but more.

Icy 2000% blames all of this on the Winx, and specifically Bloom, for stopping her first plan. The confrontation in the middle of Obsidian would be a lot more... brutal. No more boys with swords, no more scheming, no more next time they meet, Icy drags the Winx into a fight to death and loses.

I have no clue how Darcy and Stormy would react to this but due to their connected to Liliss, and Tharma, they are aware of Icy's fate.

On the bright side they don't have Liliss, and Tharma in their head 24/7 so that's fun.

Stormy and Darcy would be theoretically redeemable in this au, but it would take a lot (esp for Stormy) to actually be redeemed. You can't tell me that no one was killed in the s1 finale. Magix city looked like an apocalyptic wasteland, and Stormy just kept going lol. But it would be really funny if they were somehow redeemed tho bc that would not make Stormy any nicer of a person even a little bit.

[strangertheories]

rationalise the van monologue

Not the monologue I was speaking about before (I was referring to Mike's I love you monologue), but I'll gladly explain the van scene from a Byler perspective :) I'll respond to the other ask about the confession in a minute, but I have time to overanalyze one of my favourite scenes of Volume 2!

First up, Will's point of view. In his monologue, Will clearly loves Mike and is talking about himself but believes that Mike will be happiest with Eleven. He is willing to sacrifice his own feelings for the sake of Mike's because he loves him. This clearly shows how caring Will is about the people in his life, but also demonstrates in particular how he is willing to damage his own well being for Mike's and also for his sister. But if we look beyond why he's saying it, we can look at what he's saying. I'll write it her, but swap out Eleven's pronouns for 'I' (it'll be in a different colour), just to show what he's feeling internally more clearly.

These past few months I've been so lost without you. It's just, I’m so different from other people, and when you're different, sometimes you feel like you're a mistake. But you make me feel like I'm not a mistake at all. Like I'm better for being different. And that gives me the courage to fight on. If I was mean to you or it seemed like I was pushing you away, it's because I'm scared of losing you, like you're scared of losing Eleven. And if I am going to lose you, I'd rather just get it over quick. Like ripping off a bandaid. So yeah, I need you, Mike. And I always will.

Before I continue, I'm going to take a moment to acknowledge how much I love this monologue; it's so good and makes me cry! Anyways, effectively, Will is telling us that he is dealing with a lot of internal shame and self loathing. Throughout his life, he's been told that there's something wrong with him, that he's a mistake. And now, when he feels how he feels about Mike, he's realized that they were right about him being gay. But not about something being wrong with him. Because loving Mike makes him a better person. Loving Mike feels right and natural, not wrong or abnormal.

We've seen in S1 that Will tried to force himself to like 'normal' things, but Will doesn't want to stop loving Mike. Because it is normal, just different than the societal norm. Not to say he doesn't deal with internalised homophobia, but he's starting to realise that he only feels shame because he's told to, not because he should. And not to start on the Mike stuff too early, but I think this will be even more meaningful if his relationship with Mike isn't one sided.

Other lines are also important. For example, Will says that Mike gives him the courage to fight on. I think this is partially metaphorical; he will continue to fight his internalised homophobia because he knows that Mike is worth it. His shame is an internal battle he's been dealing with for years, but he does not cave in or believe he is a mistake because he knows his love for Mike is real and beautiful. But I also think this can be interpreted more literally, such as Will fighting the mind flayer's possession in S2 for Mike or Will not resigning to his fate at any point in the season.

Before I move on to Mike, I'm going to talk about the end of the monologue, where Will speaks about pushing away Mike for fear of losing him. Firstly, it shows that Will believed that Mike could easily reject him. Not just romantically, but for being gay. He's scared of this, but it also reveals that if Mike won't accept him, he needs to figure out now but is too scared to tell him in the first place.

Also, I think that the talk of pushing Mike away is relevant to Mike and Will's earlier argument that season. Namely, Will getting annoyed at Mike when he could've contacted him. To me, this monologue kind of indicates that Will willingly (try saying that out loud) didn't reach out to Mike because he's scared of rejection, and fair enough after the 'it's not my fault you like girls' incident the year before. This is not to say that Will is not justified in being angry at Mike, because I think you could easily argue that Mike is pushing Will away too.

Which brings me on to Mike's perspective. This should be shorter as in this scene, Mike's head is clearly full of rocks for him to be so oblivious. Don't come at me for that, Finn agrees! Also, this is way more subjective than the Will section in my opinion, but this is a Byler analysis so please don't send anons complaining that Byler isn't canon yet (I'm aware).

However, a few key things. First of all, I think Will saying he pushes away Mike because he's scared of losing him is similar to what Mike is doing to Will in S3 and S4. Mike does not believe Will could like him and is dealing with a lot of self loathing. This means he doesn't include Will as much, he doesn't make an effort to contact him and he's pretty horrible to him when Will makes efforts to reach out to Mike. I don't think this is too much of a stretch; both of them self sabotage their friendship as they realize their feelings for each other post-S2 based on the fear of rejection and also the fear that the other will be harmed by external factors.

Next, I just want to talk about the significance of this monologue to Mike. In an earlier draft of the script, Mike mentions he can tell Eleven has moved on. Whilst this line was removed afterwards, I think it's evident that Mike knows his relationship with Eleven is at a make-or-break point and that he's leaning towards the break side. He desperately needs to feel important and that's why he's staying with her; not love.

At the end of the series, we see Eleven standing ahead on her own, leaving Mike and Will behind, and I think this is to demonstrate that Eleven isn't the one who Mike should be with or the one who needs Mike; Will is. She's growing up and moving on, and Mike is only dragging along because of Will's feelings, the one who he should truly be with.

TL:DR - Mike and Will need to communicate better. Thanks for the ask, hope this made sense!

[koreandragon]

what do you think about the new one dollar lawyer ep plotwise? considering how much there's left to deal with do u think they'll set it up for a s2? it would make sense since they probably wanna milk the success. i feel like it wasn't really necessary to have jihun leaving for an entire year to reflect and everyone grieving it just for him to come back and everything's fine again lol. i'm scared the ending will be rushed. the fact that ep 9 was sorta filler and the whole series being cut short doesn't help :/ two things i will never get with this show is why the flashback had to be that long and then then deciding for less episodes right after that

but then again this ep did give us so many good mari/jihun moments like omg the way she hit him with the flowers like a lover who got ghosted skwidjs i also missed them getting into each other's personal space so much 😭 AND THE HUG??? i cannot believe that their chemistry is so good that this show has all of us wearing full clown attire every week even after his literal dead ex-fiancee who he's barely over got introduced 🙉

i really loved this episode actually. and if you guys know me you know i'm generally very against kdramas getting a second season because most of the time it's unnecessary but i think this show would benefit from a season 2. it has a format that is suitable for more seasons, kind of like a sitcom? i wouldn't be surprised if they went for that considering the little stove league jab in one of the episodes lol

tell you what, people usually hate time jumps, i eat them up. why? because i love reuinion scenes. love being like "ohh how are they going to meet again, what's the other person gonna say when they see them" that stuff is very fun to me. i just think it was funny how he was like "i'll be back soon" then they didn't see him again for a year lmao?? i also like that it gives the characters time to think about what the other person means to them, how their abscence or them leaving them behind makes them feel like how mari was incredibly hurt over it. and you see i don't think she forgave him that easily, she gave him a run for his money first.

they said they wanted to preserve the quality by cutting the episodes so i hope they're gonna do that and it won't be rushed.... i am pretty annoyed now that the flashback was so long like i've never seen a whole flashback last EPISODES. especially if you're gonna cut the show short.

it wasn't just me who noticed the the crackling electricity this episode like the pent up tension from him leaving and mari being mad at him but also being worried about him and wanting to forgive him was just *chef's kiss*. so much personal space invasion and casual touching and just...idk...longing?? call me insane like call me absolutely off my rockers but i'm still gonna be sitting in the front row of this circus. especially when they parallel mari with juyeong or juyeong in a flashback says something that can be applied to mari and his relationship like i just wanna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anyways i'm normal. let's see how they wrap this up.

[mushroomwriter]

Hermanos anon here - WHY WOULD YOU PUT THAT GIFSET ON MY DASH AAAAAAAH!!!!! i came out here to have a good time and honestly i feel so attacked rn

Anyway, so happy for you that the exam is over and you passed <3 I actually have exams coming up myself lol so I completely understand... also have you heard? Berlin was renewed for s2! Really really hoping Alvaro returns and we get Sergio and hermanos rights in the next season 🤞 (and to fill the need for hermanos content!!) Also pls don't feel like you have to make a set again soon, happy to wait until you get the inspiration, and ofc it's always a good idea to rewatch their scenes, instant serotonin boost - just skip that minor scene that shall not be named at the end of the Mint Heist 😭

Haha I'm sorryyyy! It's something I realised long back but I never had the chance to inflict the angst on anyone else lmao. you added the cherry on top with how you worded it "literally a little brother begging his big brother not to leave him, and knowing on some level that he'll never be able to make him change his mind" 🥺 in some way he would've known right at the moment nairobi and helsinki emerged alone so seeing him going from denial to desperation. hurts

(pt 2) YES, brotherssss!!! Oh, the fact that Andrés is so selfish and narcissistic otherwise just makes the hermanos bond even more special to me?? it hits different than if they'd just been relatively normal/good characters, idk. And yes that's such older brother behaviour of him!! I will tell you some happier observations of mine this time. One of my favourite "older bro" things Andrés does in the series, when he and Sergio sit down to drink together, he ALWAYS pours wine for Sergio first. In the bella ciao scene, his wedding scene in s4, even s3 he literally wakes up Sergio to come have breakfast with them, which means he didn't even allow either Martin or Tatiana to start without his hermanito lol. It's a very sweet minor detail that melts my heart. I can totally imagine them in the Toledo house, pretending they don't know each other but then andrés does little things like these, serving Sergio first or preparing coffee for his brother just the way he likes it before making his own cup :') OH, the feels. Yes, I agree, I definitely think the Bella Ciao lyrics are foreshadowing, and that is exactly what happened in the end. (I have been struck by that thought too, more than once 🥲 it's heartbreaking isn't it? especially when you consider that oslo/moscow had their loved ones with them when they died + a funeral. nairobi had a funeral too. tokio had rio with her before she died. but andrés had none of that, sergio was miles away and then ofc they had to escape leaving him behind... don't think about the guantanamera scene lyrics in this context too. Poor Sergio :( (pt 3) Btw sorry for how long this got!! Please feel free to put everything under a cut if you want 😅 I'm just out here rambling like there's no tmrw. Back to the happier note (omg we really just keep switching between angst and joy) I love that idea!! Yeah, I can definitely see them having that as an inside joke, something that only they share from their childhood memories, it's very sweet! Sergio "I don't dance" Marquina WILL dance if his big bro requires, and it makes me a puddle everytime. Somehow he has the most stiff yet adorable dance moves ever, I loved those moments we got. Andrés mirroring Sergio's moves in the guantanamera scene never fails to bring a smile to my face. Unironically, I used to watch that scene so many times during the pandemic days. I was not doing too well but those few seconds seeing them smile and laugh and dance despite everything used to give me such comfort :D I was glad to see your reply (and once again, completely understand, hope you're taking care of yourself <3) Thank you for putting up (and being so kind) about my rambles, glad you like them! And ofc, please feel free to tell me to shut up if I get too annoying 😭 As always, such a JOY sharing the enthusiasm for these heist bros with you and i hope you have a great week!

AT LEAST WE CAN SUFFER TOGETHER!!! And talk about Sergio, who usually considers every single possible outcome, Never considering his brother could die... whew!

Thank you so much! The best of luck on your exams!! (If you've already taken them, I hope they went well!) I saw that, yeah... and speaking of the spin-off I watched some more of it, I need to watch the fifth episode next... anyway, they better use that new season to give us some new hermanos content or ELSE 🔪🔪 like, just Andrés mentioning Sergio was enough to reawaken my heist brothers obsession, an actual new scene with the two of them would be so Powerful (also I miss Sergio sooo) Thank you, I'd like to gif them again soon but right now the inspiration isn't really on my side, UGH. But I really hope watching and rewatching their scenes (and looking for possible quotes) can help! Honestly since I love pain I will probably watch the Scene That Shall Not Be Named as well but I promise I'll proceed with caution...

Well, I can't blame you, angst is made to be shared! Poor Sergio, he really is in denial at the beginning, huh, insisting Andrés should get into the tunnel... and that's another thing that gets me, because truly there was no time, waiting for Andrés and not blowing up the tunnel basically meant getting captured, and yet Sergio who's usually so cautious and always aware of every risk just refuses to see it. Andrés must get into the tunnel and to safety! And then he gets more and more desperate when it really becomes apparent that it isn't going to happen :(

Oh, I definitely agree! Part of the appeal of big brother Andrés and of their bond imo is the contrast between their usual demeanor and how they behave around each other. When they're together they're a big brother and a little brother, you know 🥺🥺 OOOH thanks for sharing! I don't know if I ever noticed that (if I did I forgot) it really is sweet! I'm smiling a bit at the thought of Andrés not allowing Martín and Tatiana to have breakfast because the most precious hermanito in the world is not there yet! I love that thought! I enjoy picturing how it was for them in Toledo, having to pretend they didn't know each other, and the image of Andrés finding all the sneaky ways to take care of his hermanito makes me melt <3

What can I say, Bella Ciao, Guantanamera, they truly looked at the lyrics and went "ooooh 😈" That completely breaks my heart, like it makes Sergio's grief even WORSE.

Please never apologize about how long your message gets, as far as I'm concerned it only means I have more stuff to enjoy (also thank you for reminding me I can put this under a cut, I probably should lol) It's kind of amusing how we can switch between oh no Andrés was killed and Sergio was completely helpless and awww nice little childhood memories but hey it's great how they give us tragic and happy thoughts both! I absolutely agree about Sergio having the most stiff yet adorable dance moves ever, at some point he's basically like "ok, since I'm doing this with my big brother I'm... actually enjoying it, but this doesn't take all my awkwardness away" and it's so CUTE, Alvaro plays it so well! And Andrés mirroring his moves makes me smile so much!! It truly is a comfort scene and I'm glad it helped you through those times (man, it was surreal).

Thanks so much for your patience! And nooo don't worry, I LOVE your rambles!! It really is a real joy to talk with you about these brothers!

Thank you so much, I hope you have a great week too! (And if you're still studying for your exams, well, I wish you a productive study and hope it doesn't stress you out too much!)

[smhalltheurlsaretaken]

do you think the jedi prohibit 'frivolous uses of the force'?? because i see it a lot in fic but i swear i distinctly remember obi-wan using the force to pull a literal chair over lmfao

Yoooo, I've been wanting to write a post about that for like a week xD Okay, so here's the thing: I started answering this one, confident that I knew where the use of the word 'frivolous' came from - but it turned out that I was wrong, so I'm actually a bit baffled about its origin. But here goes:

(@cacodaemonia I know you were interested in this topic?)

No, I don't think the Jedi prohibit that. I don't think the Jedi even have 'frivolous' use of the Force as a concept. The idea that they prohibit it, or at least frown upon it, is very likely rooted in the AotC scene of Anakin levitating a piece of fruit.

Wookieepedia cites that scene and that scene only on the topic of frivolousness in the page on Telekinesis.

But the word frivolous isn't used in that scene! Who came up with it? Obi-Wan being grumpy about Anakin levitating the fruit could mean just about anything. Maybe Jedi frown upon showing off in front of a diplomat you're meant to be protecting in a professional way. Maybe Obi-Wan and only Obi-Wan disapproves of Anakin levitating stuff because he kept doing it around the apartment as a kid, just to be a little shit. Maybe Jedi frown upon playing with your food with the Force, which wouldn't necessarily be linked with it being 'frivolous' but just with 'don't be gross.'

Now I thought it came from the novelization using that specific word, but it doesn't! The novelization is based on the original script as opposed to the dialogue in the movie (it actually came out before the movie, so that's why) and the scene is longer in them both and seems to confirm what I said about how it could mean a lot of other things (because he isn't just levitating it originally, he's playing with it):

(novelization)

PADME: You did that? [ANAKIN looks up - wide-eyed innocence.] ANAKIN: What? [PADME scowls at him. PADME jabs at the fruit - ANAKIN subtly moves his hand and it lifts up from the plate and hovers in front of her.] PADME: That! Now stop it! [PADME laughs. ANAKIN laughs. She reaches out for the fruit - it loops.] PADME (continuing): Anakin!! [ANAKIN moves his fingers. The fruit flies into his hand.] ANAKIN: I'm not really supposed to do that... for fun, I mean. If Master Obi-Wan were here, he'd be very grumpy. [ANAKIN is pleased. He cuts the fruint (sic) into several pieces and sends one back to PADME. She bites it out of the air and laughs.]

(script)

Even taking Anakin at face value, this does not say there is an Order-wide ban on 'frivolous' uses of the Force. Again, maybe Force-assisted food shenanigans are frowned upon. Maybe Anakin isn't supposed to mess with people with the Force for fun. Maybe it's just Anakin assuming, as he sometimes does.

I think 'frivolous' might come from one of the EU books - it's not from No Prisoners (the Karen Travis TCW book) though, so I have no idea who might have used it in that context first??

Anyway, the issue in fic is that 'frivolous' is often confused with 'casual.' Hence the Obi-Wan thing imo.

One, 'frivolous' is judgy - it gives it a sense of sin, something that the Jedi... don't seem to have that much of a concept of? Dressing 'immodestly' isn't condemned, for example. I don't see the Order as a whole (there are sticks in the mud everywhere) having a thing against a concept as vague as 'frivolousness.' I mean... Yoda? His whole idea of fun is to mess with people and cackle, and his teaching methods include massive trolling, teasing the grown-up Masters with his gaggle of kiddos and whatnot. You cannot tell me Yoda never tugged on somebody's cloak to make them trip.

Two, frivolous and casual aren't the same thing. Obi-Wan pulling the chair falls into the casual use category imo - and yes, we do see him and others do this kind of casual stuff many times! (Off the top of my head: Obi-Wan grabs the map-ball thingy from the map-reader in AotC - in front of younglings, so there's no fear of a bad example being set - Yoda calls his stick to his hand in AotC, Obi-Wan pulls a chair in TCW s2, Jedi call their lightsabers to them all the time - though it's usually in combat settings, so it doesn't necessarily count, Obi-Wan closes a door in AotC - I think Ewan was the one who thought it'd be neat to do it? Idk...)

And I don't agree that "it goes to show their hypocrisy" or whatever. What, because we assume that's what Anakin meant in the AotC scene and because we assume it's 100% an Order-wide thing, and we assume that the Jedi would view using the Force for daily tasks as frivolous, then every single instance of Jedi using the Force for simple every day stuff is hypocritical?! Even though floating freaking fruit around somebody's head and pulling up a chair are absolutely not the same thing? The latter is something you would do no matter whether you use the Force or not - pulling a chair is a normal thing to do. Playing with fruit around someone is a rude thing to do. There's a difference whether or not 'frivolous' stuff is frowned upon.

And also, using the Force is a natural thing. The Jedi do it like they breathe - it's all around them and they're aware of it constantly, and it's not always something they can turn on or off. It's natural that they would use it for daily stuff, and the level of respect that comes attached with using it would necessarily vary from one Jedi to the other. Just look at Quinlan. What, jumping out of a gunship to make an entrance isn't frivolous? Well, Quinlan is a Master, so his views on it are just as valid - just as Jedi - as anybody else's. (Plus Obi-Wan - the Council Member - gives him grief for being late, not for just for being ridiculous, so again - rudeness.)

I can see some Masters being against using the Force with carelessness - and yeah, I can also see some Masters being against using it in a 'fun' way - because you have to be careful with that stuff, but it probably would generate debate. There wouldn't be a definite consensus on what is too much and what isn't.

If "the Jedi all frown upon casually using the Force" is something that Lucas intended to convey in the movie, please correct me and give me a source.

Though it is also entirely possible that Obi-Wan was meant to be a bit hypocritical about it - because he and Anakin have their tensions, and as somewhat of a parental figure it's only natural that he would scold Anakin for stuff that isn't that big of deal, or that he himself has done, because that's what every person who's ever been in charge of a younger person has done at some point. So sure, maybe Obi-Wan scolded Anakin for being too casual with the Force? But I still don't see it as a Big Rule that is in the Jedi Code That Must Not Be Violated and that get you Shamed and Shunned if you dare to have fun with the Force.

(Honestly, it reminds me of 'your Lightsaber is your Life' thing, and Ahsoka and Anakin both separately whining that their Master was going to kill them for losing/breaking theirs. There's a certain level or respect and care expected, the Masters (or... only Obi-Wan and Anakin, lol) nag a bit, aren't always careful enough themselves, the kids make a big deal out of it in front of other people, but ultimately there are zero repercussion whatsoever for actually failing to follow the Master's nagging. Like, Jocasta tells Ahsoka Anakin would totally understand, and it's Ahsoka who insists he wouldn't and makes it into a big thing.)

Again, having Masters tell their students to be respectful of the Force and not to treat it like a joke? Sure. Showing off with the Force in a rude manner being called 'frivolous,' and it being a bad thing? I could see it. Having Masters get pissy about pulling chairs, closing doors or whatever - about doing things you can do with your hands with the Force instead? Maybe, but it wouldn't be an Order-wide thing.

One thing's for certain, we never see a Master directly scolding a student for using the Force casually in the Prequels, the OT or TCW, much less calling it 'frivolous.'

So yeah, gimme Jedi levitating stuff to clean up under the furniture xD

[redxblueihateloveyou]

Omg thank you so much for your posts about rinharu!! :"")) I was one of those people who were like "why are rinharu fighting again?? Did kyoani purposely seperate them /again/ just for the sake of drama ?? (And so that they have more oppurtunities to showcase other ships??)" I was really irked at first cuz i thought the first part of TFS is finally going to be a movie about rinharu being a powercouple, but! After reading your posts i realised that haru never really moved on from rin leaving, even in S3 the reason why hiyori's words affected him was because he thought he caused rin to leave (and by extension ikuya, but lbr haru wasn't as frustrated with ikuya nearly as much as he was with rin right) so i'm just here to say.. thank you so much for opening my eyes!!! Now i'm really looking forward to the second part!!

Awww no problem <3 tbh I've always said that free is one of those that has so many nuances left bts that it's sometimes confusing for those who aren't as invested I think. Like there's so many important things that are left out and are in additional materials, that some has no idea what's going on at times. Like back in the days when some interpreted s2 in the opposite way bc of that one thing. My point is that not everyone is even watches stuff like recaps for example (where there are in fact new easter eggs and so many important things like Rin's dad death aftermath etc), and even less read novels and checked side stories and dramas.

For example, in books this Haru's issue about him thinking he's cursed and hurts everyone with his swimming is a huge thing, when Asahi "lost his ability to swim" after seeing Haru's free. But in SD it wasn't adressed at all tbh.

And what Haru feels for Rin is such tornado of emotions, that surprised even me with all the descriptions, bc like it's real bad. Like that part I posted from the chapter when Rin leaves is at least understandable, since he leaves. But the way he reacts to him in general even when he just appears in his sight is always described as if someone tortures him for real lol. And he's always like "pls someone save me, I don't know how to deal with this, bc I've never felt such emotions before".

So basically, like yeah, he's as it is has this thing, when he thinks of himself as some bad omen, so he's very sensitive about it, but since everything Rin-related feels x100000000 for him, its just... well, it hurt for a very long time and sadly was just overlooked by a certain someone, so here we are.

I think we all at first believed that bc Rin's so shocked and in disbelief that Haru could even think that it was his fault in some way:

that maybe they talked about it bts or smth like after the relay. But it seems like Rin either forgot or most likely I think he maybe thought that Haru understood without words? I'm just real sad still that Haru didn't get to hear this speech:

I mean, they made it look by the end of s1 that it was about relay, which partially yeah, but for Rin it was really about Haru. You see what he said.. he said that that 1x02 race with Haru alone.. what made him want to swim again. This whole speech was not only about the fact that Haru wasn't at fault that he quit swimming in the first place, but about the fact that Haru is his lucky charm, that makes everything better. AND WE DIDN'T EVEN GET TO HEAR THAT. So like for Haru it's to this day like "after I messed him up, Rin was saved with the power of friendship and a relay". But he was saved by Haru really. Bc according to s3 info, it was basically just about Haru being on the relay team. I don't try to demean their friendships or anything, but its just what it is.

And as I've said before in one post it's just fascinating that to this day Rin for example thinks that s1 shananigans were just about him and just his problem:

Haru thought it was about them and their problem:

So like my point here is I also up to the end of s2 thought that maybe Rei or Rin told that to him, bc we seemed to move on to another problems, until in Kizuna we were shown that he still dreams about that scene of Rin leaving. s3 Hiyori just exposed the wound really.

But also once again see what he said there, it's not just about that one time he keeps reliving, aka his first come back, its really just about each time Rin was leaving. Like the very first one already was bad, the second was the worst, bc he thought he hurt him and thought that bc of him he quit swimming, others are just painful bc by then it was already another kind of feeling. I mean, I do think that this first Rin's return to Australia thing needs to be cleared up since it's obviously still haunting him. But again it's just part of this. Haru after the Australian trip and "I've always admired you" and "without you I have nothing to aim for" and after TYM goodbye when Rin told him that he doesn't need a surprise party and that just swimming with Haru before leaving is the greastest surprise for him, he knows already about the way Rin feels about swimming with him... I think the reason why everyone is freaking out here is that bc the way it's executed it's just really about him constantly missing him and "why am I always have to longingly watch you leave, while you seem fine." If he was in a free race, but wasn't on a relay team, he'd get the same reaction. Its just all seasons combined that brought us here. We already in 3x01 without Hiyori knew that he wasn't handling Rin being far away again good. So tbh it's logical even without any explanation really. I mean, Rin does indeed leave and come back as he pleases and does what he wants without holding back or sometimes thinking about consequences. There's no lie here.

It's like since the beginning for Rin it was like "I found the gorgeous guy I adore and I want to swim with, I'll transfer schools just to nag him into swimming with me, it's not like he's gonna care if I leave after that." (he literally in the book didn't think it was a big deal)

For Haru it was like "I lived just fine, but this guy stormed into my life, made me want things I didn't think I'd ever want, got me addicted to him and then dropped me like a hot potato".

Rin's just very passionate about life and things he wants, like Haru for example, but he's really also very unobservant and very clueless at times.

But like just bc he doesn't know about Haru's existential crisis and all the pain he's truly in when he's leaving, doesn't change the fact that he at times didn't even treat him as a simple friend (because they can't be just friends I KNOW), but still things like "you could've called" "well sorry, I guess I'm just not good at it" are probably hurtful, considering the fact that you are good at it with everyone else tho, Rin sweetie. Like thanks for avoiding us the most and holding back and visiting us the last each time, we feel real special. Haru is like the opposite, he doesn't call anyone for example, but he can call Rin in the middle of the night if needed, he always does for Rin smth that's completely out of his comfort zone.

It's like some say "Rin didn't know he wanted him to call" or "he didn't know Haru felt guilty". He did know he wanted him to call and he didn't know Haru felt guilty and stopped swimming competitively when he stopped swimming, but then Rei told him and Natsuya in 3x03 reminded him about this too. Its just the fact that he doesn't want to add 1+1 and thinks "well, there's no way I can affect Haru like that right?", "he can't be that upset about Rin Matsuoka, right?". While facts are he IS literally the only one who affects Haru in such huge way. It's like everyone else can just pass him by and it's nothing, but he walks by and it's a whole "asdfghgfdsa why my body is on fire, its just Rin who's just standing there".

And I'm also buffled by this thing that some people really say stuff like "where did this come from, they were perfectly fine" etc, as if they ever had normal "friendship" relationship. I'm like when did they ever behave themselves okay? In 3x03 Rin is dying to call Haru, but can't do it, while he's constantly texting everyone including Nagisa. First thing he says in the airport when he comes back is "I'm home, Haru" to air, but then goes to hang out with Makoto and Sousuke, desperately looking for an excuse to see the one whom he from the beginning, as it was shown wanted to see the most, but in his opinion can’t without a reason. It's only when Makoto tells him that Haru was upset about Albert he quickly rans off out of there bc "hooray, I have an excuse to see my bae”. Like we know from the airport scene that he wanted to see Haru the most. If they're so as people say were doing great, than how do you exlain all of their s2 and s3 behavior for real? It's like as if in TYM Haru didn't lose his shit from some gossip about persimmons. I mean, they never settled anything really. And Haru is constantly scared of Rin leaving again since forever.

So it's complicated, but yes, we're super excited for p2, bc asdfghjhgfds.

[kaypeace21]

The St d&d comic is giving strong byler vibes-and I’m here for it!

First we have in ch2 Mike being very defensive about Will-when visiting him in the hospital (between s1 /s1, 1 month time skip).

 Mike in s3 used the excuse of Nana to not talk to and lie to El -and the Will/nana parallel means (like s3 implied) Will is the reason mike actually wanted to avoid /lie to El. 

Mike says before d&d he was  “scared ALL the time “ of what everyone think of him- boys at school, his own family at home-he was scared everywhere he WENT. Sounds like a boy paranoid someone will find out -he’s not ‘normal”(cough gay).

On the next page-he admits d&d taught him to deal with homoph*bic bullies (troy and james) which he called “monsters at school”. And just like s1 - the bullying still mostly target Mike- despite Will being there.

He grows more and more insecure about how his friends will no longer want to play d&d again. And thinks he’s “stupid” for being so hung up on being so emotionally attached to the game-echoing Will’s feelings in s3 in relation to d&d etc.  

*It’s like how in s3, Will calls himself “stupid” after fighting with Mike and saying he thought they’d play the game for the rest of their lives (and not get gfs).Flo in s1: “only love makes you that crazy and that damn stupid.” In s2, next to their feet was the d&d game -when Mike and Will agree to go “crazy together”.I also told you Mike was bluffing in that s3 fight- why he got upset Will tried to give the game away at the end of the season 3 . And still had every d&d drawing Will gave him on his wall -throughout s1-3).

In the comic, Mike gets very insecure and upset when he assumes Will doesn’t want to play the game anymore- and like I mentioned in prior posts Mike (at the end of s1) decides to write a d&d story for Will. This assumption of mine was confirmed by this comic...

Mike eventually breaks down and cries admitting to Nancy  he’s “scared” for Will cause he can’t accept Will being a ‘victim’.Will HAS TO BE a hero to Mike .(which i don’t know- ‘victim’ is a very loaded term- kind of gives credence to my DID/C*A theory maybe). Plus, the idea that Mike is “scared” of what his family/strangers think of him and how he similarly is “scared” for Will- could be a hint they’re both lgbt. Mike dealing with homoh*bic “monsters at school” and Will dealing with literal “monsters” (that represent Will’s issues with his sexuality/ab*sive h*mophobic dad). And Mike as a child wants Will to destr*y that symbolic monster and help him do so.

Also notice his sad face of calling himself “stupid” matches his expression of being “scared” for Will.*Hopefully this is a hint Nancy will be accepting of byler (even if it takes a while).This discussion leads up to what we see at the end of s1. Mike in the last ep in s1 ,writes a d&d story for Will.  in ep one Will tells Mike “it was a 7, the demogorgan it got me.”At the end of the season Mike writes a whole story of him and his friends killing a 7 headed monster, and showing the decapitated head of the monster to king Tristan (Will). Similar to how at the hospital he tells Will to not worry cause “it’s dead now”. This is right after Will rolls a 14 (cause Mike and Will are 7s together). And Mike who is a fan of starwars has King Tristan give them medals after killing the monster. Cause he wants Will/king tristan (instead of Leia -a girl/princess) to present him with medals and be his romantic love interest.

After talking to Nancy ,Mike says in order for Will to be the hero -everyone (not just himself) has to work together to help . We also have Karen hug Will in identical framing of how she hugged Mike (after Will’s death). AWWW- we get it he’s your future son in law- karen . XD

These themes of the comic hint at what i already discussed in  more detail- in this previous post- Mike was bluffing about not wanting to play. Mike dedicated and wrote that s1 story specifically for Will. Like the pilot scripts mentioned about Will/Mike- d&d is used as an “escape” for both boys about their sexualities-and is heavily linked to their relationship in various scenes. In the pilot, they even say Will has “sexual identity issues” and uses d&d to “escape” his insecurities about his sexuality “like mike” & Mike uses d&d to “escape” his insecurities about not having a gf.  And no, dustin & Lucas didn’t use d&d to “escape” anything- in the pilot script bios.

ch1 also shows Mike was the one to tell Will about the game- he also gave him the nickname “Will the wise.” 

Plus, lol in ch 1 Lucas says romance books are useless (while Mike defends it’s worth-cough cause he low key writes one for Will in ch2).And Will symbolically runs away from romance as Mike chases him and says “wait up”. LOL XD

I take the comics with a grain of salt- as far as them being canon or only partially canon. But so far- pretty cute. So i wanted to share.

[toujoursmiraculous]

Thoughts and Reaction to ROCKETEAR!

It's a long post, but when are these ever really short? xD Seeing Carapace first made me so excited. I've been sad we haven't had much of him in the show. And then I saw that it seemed like Ladynoir was doing pretty good as they only had Carapace helping them this time. More S2 & S3 like. So I was like cool, cool, this is great. But what the heck scientist WHY ARE YOU BRINGING TYRANNOSAURUS REX'S BACK! Obviously she's going to be something big later on, she's too nicely animated not to be back. Not to mention Bob Roth's plans. Anyone else both intrigued but also scared at what that could do later? Big upcoming plot point, I think.

I screamed awwww because this is everything. I've wanted a LB/Carapace and Marinette/Nino friendship bond in this show since season 1. This scene made me incredibly happy! I'm a huge Nino fan, for those that don't know, so you can imagine how much I love this episode. Even though sad Nino.

"Alya, everyone has to believe that you will never use the Miraculous again!" End of episode: So anyway... So what I'm seeing here is, Alya's not fond of the idea of being just a spy, not being in on the action. Even though it's Ladybug's plan. Chat Noir isn't fond of what's going on right now either, where he thinks what's going on is all Ladybug's plans. Alya makes the decision to not do what Ladybug wants and tells Nino she's still Rena Rouge. So what's Chat Noir going to do to go against her? Because that's coming up on the horizon. Despite everything being easier for Marinette since everything's not just on her shoulders now, she's still been unable to play video games with her dad, and we know how much she loves doing that. :c That's really sad she doesn't even have time for her family anymore. DJWifi over here being all adorable. "You don't love me anymore!" Me: *Chat Blanc flashbacks* Alya suggests her new content could be Chat Noir edits and Marinette's like YES DO THOSE. Then those edits helped push Nino into thinking she was into Chat. Big oops. Not gonna lie, the rewind freaked me out for a moment. Last time I saw that was Chat Blanc so I thought something big was up. But nope, it's just like that scene in Puppeteer 2. Ugh poor Nino! He knows something's bothering Alya, but she won't say what it is and her behavior's too off from how she normally is. Poor guy. x.x Grumpy Nino that Carapace doesn't get attention and then they wrote his girlfriend with Chat Noir. I remember when Alya was grumpy for a bit about Rena Rouge not getting a party to celebrate her. Movie Ladybug telling Movie Chat Noir that he's better with Movie Rena Rouge. Is this a reference to the episode in Avatar, The Ember Island Players? Getting strong vibes when Play Aang and Play Katara were like, we're just friends nothing more and it's great! Play Katara was extremely into Play Zuko. I can see why Ladybug dismissed the movie (or was it the previous one since it's been awhile? Maybe?) because Rena Rouge and Chat Noir???? The writers (of the movie) just wanted to be different because everyone can see Ladynoir, unless they're blind. Alya and Nino are Andre's favorite couple. YES THANK YOU. I mean they're not my favorite because Love Square. BUT they're my second favorite next to them. Those kids are super adorable but definitely that kid playing Chat wasn't doing Nino any favors. First picture Alya shows. Chat with a heart tail. Yeah that's not doing her any favors lol. Nino: UGH CHAT NOIR'S COMING IN BETWEEN ME AND MY GIRLFRIEND. I KNOW, I'LL CALL MY BEST FRIEND TO VENT TO ABOUT IT. Best Friend Chat Noir: Best Friend Chat Noir: Welp maybe I should see what's up. Maybe I went a little to hard on the cat charm and she's fallen in love with me. Me: Oh oof here we go. Also can I ask, if anyone knows, who animated this episode? The fluidity is great and it looks really pretty. But it doesn't quite look like SAMG's work either. Whoever did it, I love it. S2 Chat Noir: You're not replacing me with a turtle, are you? :c S4 Nino: Who would want a reckless turtle as a partner? BOYS STOP. But yeah this whole scene had me laughing so hard XD Very dramatic and I love it. Nino's hilarious even when he's worried and sad! I would've absolutely loved to have heard this in English with the old English voice of Nino, but the new one worries me on whether or not he'll do a good job sounding like Nino and less high-pitched and whiny. :/ New York Nino was great but S4 Nino....x.x THE TRANSITION BETWEEN HIS INNER MONOLOGUE AND SPEAKING REGULARLY AGAIN 😂😂😂😂 Brilliant! It doesn't really feel like Miraculous Ladybug this episode, and I love it. Not that I don't love the show as usual but wow this is great. Okay, I want to point out that Chat Noir

probably was more worried about it than he would've been otherwise because of what happened with Marinette in Weredad. It probably made him more cautious about this sort of thing.

LOL Chat's sulking because Alya's laughing at the idea of being interested in him. 😂😂 I know that's a blow to one's ego and all, and he's dealt with this kind of thing a lot so I do feel bad for him, but that is his best friend's girlfriend and he definitely doesn't want her to like him. Alya: With him it's not just ❤️it's *makes massive hand gesture indicating she loves him deeply* SO SO SO CUTE OKAY ALL THIS DJWIFI 😭 Alya: And I don't even know your secret identity! I would never fall in love with someone I don't know. Chat Noir, literally fell in love with Ladybug, whose identity he doesn't know. Well Alya, I wonder if you saying that matters for later somehow.... o.O Nino running away crying is honestly one of the things that hurts me most in the entire show. Ugh. Adrien over here being all, I'm having a good day. I'm happy and smiling and it's great. And then it wasn't. Adrien, if Nino let him and didn't interrupt, would've told him about how Alya really doesn't love Chat Noir, and that would've seriously led up to his identity being exposed since Nino was watching and filmed them. o.o Did you notice how he was going to tell him about it? S4, the basement is where it's at. Adrien: Uhh, when did you arrange all this? Nino: *pounds fist on desk* I ASK THE QUESTIONS! 😂 So like. Why is Nino interrogating Adrien when he's after Chat Noir? He doesn't know they're the same person. XD He's looking at him like Adrien has info he's keeping or something omg.

Also again this animation is so nice. Adrien, feeling uncomfortable and so turns the music off. Nino, wanting his dramatic music on while he interrogates Adrien, turns it back on. Adrien, feeling even more irritated and uncomfortable, wants the music OFF and turns it off. Nino, turns the music back on. This may be a reference to something, I don't know, but lolol it's so funny. This episode is both super hilarious and super angsty! Honestly they've done such a good job in my opinion. Nino: I'm talking about something that I shouldn't tell you! ...but I'm going to tell you anyway! Alya's Rena Rouge and I'm Carapace! Okay but the way Adrien went from shock to utter anger, knocked his chair back and grabbed Nino's shoulders like "Tell me the truth. You two know about each other?" Aw man, my poor sunshine boy. A lot of the stuff bothering Adrien is all circumstantial, none of it is to purposefully keep him in the dark. And yet from his perspective, that's how it looks. "I thought secret identities must be protected at all times! If that was the truth, you would never tell me this!" Alright so three things. If he's referring to him saying that Nino and Alya know about each other, that was situational and important info for him to know now that this is out. It wasn't important to know before this. The time it happened was dire and was really no time to get around it. If he's talking about Nino telling him the secrets, well yeah that's not supposed to happen and Nino broke that trust. But also, I get the feeling pretty strongly at this point Adrien's going to be breaking some rules too and one of which is he's going to tell Nino who he is. Adrien's being too emotional in this scene to not be involved in it all, I'm wondering if that's going to be questioned later by Nino. He's acting like he knows too much to be a random viewer of the heroes like the rest of Paris. Also Adrien's best friend just totally dissed Chat Noir and went off about how he throws himself at Ladybug whenever he sees her with roses and love confessions. 😂😂😂 This is just too funny! "But he's always rejected because Ladybug finds him annoying! And she's completely right!" Omg Nino, that's not the reason anymore, shush! "And then Rena Rouge appears and he goes *tickles under Adrien's chin* hey pretty lady! You look elegant and you have great perfume." OMG does Chat Noir actually say and do stuff like that to Rena Rouge or is he just exaggerating here XD "If I could I would shut his mouth forever!" Yeah Nino, say what you really think about your best friend in the entire world. Yikes poor Adrien though. I never imagined he'd hear all these bad things about himself from his best friend directly like that. :/ That's a major misunderstanding of him. Which kind of pushes me more towards the "he's going to tell Nino" theory. Sad Adrien transformation DDDX Alya: *explained everything about why Chat Noir went over to her house in the middle of the night* Marinette *facepalm* Ugh that Chat Noir... Well at least there will be no misunderstandings there! xD "Chat Noir, you stole Alya from me! I will steal your life from you." Good lord man calm down. You can't just kill a man! Fanon: Chat Noir gets attacked by a guy over Marinette. Canon: Chat Noir gets attacked by a guy over Alya. Time to go back to the basement! lol Nino's music's still playing xD And the video is left with it paused on Chat Noir hugging Alya. Marinette looked a bit sad, but it was probably more about the situation being a mess rather than being sad he'd hug her. Meanwhile, Chat Noir's fighting Nino and would rather get beaten up by him than fight. x.x "I can't believe that I doubted you." "I can't believe I chose to do anything but be with you!" She wiped away akumatized Nino's tear just like how Ladybug wiped away akumatized Chat Noir's. ALL THE PARALLELS 😭😭😭 But that hug is so sweet!! Nino broke off the akumatization just like Alya did :o Dang, I wonder if that means something later too. "Love and secrets do not go well together, Ladybug. And I'm sure you have a lot of

them!" Secrets = from Chat Noir. Love = for Chat Noir. Yeah even Shadow Moth knows at this point. xP Thanks for that foreshadowing. Nino's charm is my favorite charm so far! It's my favorite shade of blue. Chat Noir: Everybody has doubts sometimes...even me." Ladybug: Is everything okay, Chat Noir? Chat: Oh yes...pound it!

So um. The placemet of Adrien's poster in between Chat Noir, Ladybug, and just with this entire situation feels very strange. Very intentional. But no clue exactly what that could mean..... Nino and Alya are happy over there watching those two, like they're waiting for them to figure things out or something. But really, Adrien should've talked to Ladybug when he could still do so calmly and be reasonable. I doubt that's going to be the case later on. And honestly Ladybug doesn't even know what's going on. Every episode we've seen really either has them working together or she's unable to be Ladybug when he's unable to be Chat Noir most of the time. I've said it before but these two really need to communicate. Nino and Alya are like a less adorably romantic version of what they'd be. "But they're a couple and they know their secret identities, so why does that rule exist for us but they can know?" Very simple. Because they were temporary holders and the Miraculous they had, Hawk Moth hasn't made it his life's mission to obtain, unlike them, who are permanent holders and Hawk Moth's been after them fiercely to make a Wish that could destroy everything. But. The fact he's asking this, and Marinette's Chat Blanc nightmare, really points in the direction that he's going to eventually find out that while she's thought about telling him all along, Chat Blanc's kept her from doing so.

Okay, so while it looks like he's staring up at the moon, if you notice, it really is just one of the pink bubbles.

Now, they could be making it seem like it's the moon though to give it a double meaning. But poor Kitty, he's feeling so awful right now over in that dark corner Dx Nino felt bad for only two episodes? and it got resolved, so hopefully this all won't last too much longer for him! Marinette had a few shaky episodes so hopefully he'll have a few before it gets resolved. But somehow I think that may be wishful thinking. This episode was so amazing, honestly. Wonderful writing, made me laugh a lot, aw a lot, and hurt a lot. It focused on the core 4 characters which I've wanted more of for a long time. The animation was beautiful. And it just felt so different in such a good way. Chat Noir's having a hard time right now, and I know there's a lot of anger and hate about it going around. But please, think of this as him hitting a rough spot in the road to a much better and brighter future. He's going to end up okay, he'll understand it all someday. And that day's honestly not that far for him if you think about it.