#lumen rants

[soo-won]

Suwon's character analysis: From being shown to showing

Suwon is really a character all about being watched and scrutinized, isn't he?

Of course he's not self aware he's a fictional character but his position as a King and in relation to Yona ironically put him in a position that gives him a similar awareness that if he did. Suwon is judged and analyzed by everyone, in and outside the story. He knows that when he shows himself (and appears in the story) he has to perform a certain way. He has a role to follow and perform until the end. The way he speaks, the way he stands, the way he moves...being King means controlling and being aware of all of it. The moments we see through this costume are moments where he's taken by surprise and becomes "out of character" for this role. Moments where he's literally called out by characters around him for it, making him fall in his expected role more and more. He has to behave a specific way, he has to wear specific attires, he is very aware he is the object of many gazes around him. When he performs his role perfectly he is judged but in ways he expects because it's others' roles as well. When he breaks out of this role, he is judged anyways for losing himself. No matter what Suwon does or says, others will judge him or love him and expect things from him. It is true in the narrative and outside of it.

The South Kai arc with chapter 221 and 224 has him desperatly try to stick to his role that is slipping through his fingers, he has to position himself in contrast and opposition to Yona, he has to be the King his father wanted until the very end, etc. Yet, Yona and Hak kept breaking these roles as well. Hak, in full armor from Kai, the enemy, arrives and gives the senjusou to Suwon, in full King attire at this moment. Hak enters the stage like a blast when the curtains were about to fall and turns all formalities and rules of distance and what is allowed or not to dust. He breaks the role he carried until now as the character that should hate Suwon forever and try to kill him, and saves him instead. The fact that Suwon is King then doesn't really matter, Hak did this as his former friend.

In chapter 243, Suwon wants to speak to Hak privately but is well aware that if he comes out and does that, he will be seen and judged, confirmed by the shadows in chapter 251. He is not allowed to be himself without any costume freely, hence the cloak and hood on. He is not allowed this one private moment, eyes are on him and not only Hak's that he very much expects as well. That's why Suwon's tone the whole chapter is so...ambiguous. At the beginning, he speaks matter of factly, maybe not as "Hak's King" but at least in a unpersonal way, like an anonymous messager. He tells him information. That's why he calls Yona "Princess Yona" too I think. It is Suwon trusting Hak and relying on him personally, yet he is not totally open yet, Suwon still has a role to play. The more it goes, the more the tone shifts subtlely, now calling Yona by her name, his hood falling when Hak hits the wall, and talking more personally. What he shares then is what he is resigned to do and accept given his position and role that he can't just give up on now, what is the most reasonable within the range of his actions from then on. What he conveys to Hak is that he will not break character and stop performing his role as King, the one thing changing being only how he passes it down to Yona.

However, there is one final thing that the manga makes perceptible for absolutely no one but Hak, that even the shadows can't hear and understand. Suwon's last word(s) to Hak is not digitally typeset like every other text inside speech bubbles, but handwritten so small it looks like muttering that we can't for sure confirm the full forms of. Since chapter 243 came out, I did try for a long time to decipher it, and many concluded it could be a "sayonara" or "arigatou", and it was also translated and typesetted in the official English translation as "Farewell".

But honestly, now I think it is something we should not and are not supposed to decipher. In my eyes, it was Suwon's attempt to have just one thing, one word that would not be scrutinized and broken down to pieces by the people that watch him with no regard to his agency. The only thing we break down is the unintelligible form of it. I'm sure that we are not wrong to think it was something along the lines of a "Farewell", but I can't help but feel like it's not right to take even that from them now. This page is also the trigger that makes Hak understands that their entire convo was in itself a performance that Suwon directed from the start and aimed at people looking at them (the shadows and the audience), and the real message that he conveys only to Hak and not the shadows is that he is giving him and Yona a chance to escape and never return, despite the fact it goes directly against what he told him clearly in their conversation. I think this is what breaks Hak's heart too then, and why Hak realizes that he indeed can't dream of walking on the same path as Suwon anymore. Because Suwon will keep performing a role that will constrain him this way and make him hurt Yona and Hak. That this is maybe the path awaiting them too. The best way is to escape from it when it's not too late. It is too late at this point for Suwon though, or so he thinks. Suwon is self-aware that he can't discard them by this point, so to me this is him trying to negociate these feelings of his (by leaving them one chance to leave) with his role and constraints as a King in this complicated, indirect way.

It's very telling afterwards how the moment from chapter 243 Hak remembers is Suwon's final word that we can't read, whereas for the shadows it is the moment he tells Hak he will make Yona the next ruler. The unreadableness of the former and the enhanced size of the text in the latter...yeah. Suwon's words removed from their full context often are enhanced like that, aren't they?

Suwon is at the same time forced and not allowed to change. He is at the intersection of clashing expectations. It is bad whether Suwon follows his role perfectly or whether he breaks out of it a little and tries something different. Suwon is cruel to Yona and Hak and should die for his actions, or Suwon is too nice and submitting to Yona and Hak (and the larger narrative). No matter what Suwon says and does, it will cause discourses after discourses from both those supporting him and those against him. It is cruel, because people around him are changing and looking him differently than before, whether it's good or bad. In chapter 242, he acts out perfectly as the determined and pragmatic King he is as always, yet now even Geuntae doesn't seem satisfied. Suwon, because of Yona's influence on the people and world around them, has also no other choice but to adapt to these changes in some ways, yet characters like the shadows that refuse any change from 10 years ago stand against it. Again, then chapter 243 to me is Suwon's way to still perform his role as expected from others by negociating with all these sides in some ways. But it's really so complicated, isn't it? And in the end, a chapter like 243 was painful and upsetting for everyone.

I read many people say that Suwon was not here enough in the castle arc and it was annoying that Keishuk was so much present instead, and I remember very well how desperate I was to see him more by then, but it makes sense too, no? After all, Suwon didn't want to be seen. By showing himself as little as possible only in the moments he knows he can perform well, he was still somewhat in control of what people saw of him. The illness made it that Suwon could just not perform more than he did. He didn't want anyone and especially not Yona and Hak to try to see him beyond the performance, yet they kept getting closer and closer, pushing Suwon to hide himself away more and more too.

Suwon knew very well that the second he came out in the open he was closely looked at, by Shin-ah of course, but Shin-ah is only the best example of this general feeling of being watched and judged I think. This is Suwon's interpretation of Shinah's gaze, and I'm sure there is part of truth in it but I think it is also heavily influenced by Suwon's own feelings. Suwon was judged and followed for isolating Yona when she learned of the illness and for imprisoning Hak, but those were things he was only /indirectly/ the cause of. Of course, Suwon didn't do anything to go against them and it was his responsibility this way, he knew and had the authority to decide different, but what I mean is it portrays very well how Suwon is aware, /feels/ the way others scrutinize him ever since he killed Il for every single negative (direct and indirect) consequences of all he does and is. He will never be free from it. People will never let go, even when Yona and Hak do. I think the wound on his shoulder or the pain of his illness he doesn't act on enough are also symbols of that. His present shoulder wound is the literal trace and scar of Shinah's gaze on him in chapter 249, and Suwon is okay with carrying it.

It's not like the story has never let us enter Suwon's mind before recently, after all the narrative doesn't strictly follow only Yona's POV, but Suwon from the beginning was still generally a character seen from the outside by others rather than followed from inside. All these iconic scenes of characters looking at him, whether it's only his back or in the eyes are very much about that. These scenes serve to show how Yona (and Hak) is the subject of the story and will always watch him and what he does, the way Suwon watched Il for 10 years. It also serves to confirm to him that they hate him and wants him to die, etc...

It is very interesting too that the majority of flashbacks we have of him (outside of the one in chapter 11 and some bits of ch1/185) are never from Suwon's POV, but from others and how they perceived Suwon and felt about him then. Hak in particular. Even the diary arc is not from his POV. It is always about the conflict between the characters' first impressions of him and other sides of him revealed to them later on. Suwon to characters and to readers alike is like a puzzle we try to resolve, picking him up piece by piece. Each POV about Suwon is important because he is seen differently by each character, they all see different parts of him and reveal new things about him in reaction.

But this is precisely where we differ from the characters individually and what makes the larger narrative not solely about Yona's subjectivity. As readers we can assemble each piece in a way characters, even Yona, cannot. Moreover, we are also shown some bits from his own POV that no one else inside the story get to see. That's why honestly...I don't see Suwon as a puzzle to piece together since a long time. Of course we don't know and maybe don't understand everything about him, but the characters' struggle to understand him is quite different from readers' position when they judge him one way or the other, in my eyes. The only way I can make sense of why the story would go out of its way to narrate things about Suwon only to us when he is a character all about being shown and seen, is that at the end of the day the larger narrative is and was never against Suwon, its scope includes him too, we are made to feel for him as well. It is only so hard with Suwon because he himself doesn't let us and has circumstances that doesn't allow him that. Akatsuki no Yona is very much about Yona's subjectivity above all, but not fully and totally either and it cares about other characters as well (whether it does it well or not is another topic), and the existence of a character like Suwon we are shown glimpses of the interiority of from the very first volumes highlights this well, I think.

Despite this, the characters' struggle didn't end. And that's where the nuance between what the larger narrative of Akatsuki no Yona tells us about him and what Suwon as a character-narrator shows and tells us is meaningful. Suwon is a fictional character that depends on a bigger narrator and author of course, but there are several layers of narration in comics art, some which embrace the mind and subjectivity of one chosen character and making them "independant", agent of what they show and tell.

When we are shown what Suwon thinks in chapter 217 or in chapter 221 for example, I don't think it was that Suwon as a character wanted to be seen, but only that he was breaking and vulnerable in a way that made these bits showable to us. The fact we see Suwon's thoughts is a representation of Suwon's emotional state. It's not something Suwon has agency over at his own level. He is not a narrator in those moments, but a character being shown.

More precisely, Suwon did try to resist the narrative in chapter 217. Inner monologues in comics and especially in shoujo manga can be represented in different ways and have different functions. In chapter 217, there is a visual contrast between the thoughts that "float" on the pages, his personal lingering feelings for hurting Yona, and the thoughts in the black boxes, that have him rationalize the situation. Generally, monologues in text boxes are said to be a more objective level of narration (I get this from the "How to draw shoujo manga" book by Shigeki Suzuki, a former editor for Dessert's magazine).

Obviously, Suwon is not objective here, but it represents his attempt to affirm his authority on what is told and narrated, his control on feelings he doesn't want to acknowledge and to get out in the open. He tries to be a narrator. The metaphor of a box that opens against his will is then perfectly fitting. There are the words typed in text boxes, and the words out of these boxes. In the very next page, the boundary between panels and text boxes is blurred thanks the magic of shoujo manga composition. The first two vertical panels could very much be text boxes on their own, and what he says in them is still him being pragmatic and rationalizing what he has to do. Yet, as we see, Hak is now in these boxes as well. It breaks the illusion of Suwon as a character-narrator here (which was already hinted at by the choice to make the bg of the text boxes so dark). He can't control his thoughts from going towards Yona and Hak, he is not showing that willingly.

What we see inside Suwon is him still performing the best he can. It's him trying to convince himself and push himself to fulfill his duties with no hesitation. It's still not all of him, there are still things that he tries desperately to hide and keep deep deep inside of discarded boxes. Inside and outside, he has to be the perfect pragmatic King his role ask, so all that is shown has to be that. He can't allow himself to be anything else, he has to shut off and erase any trace of different voices in his heart. Yona, by being a person that expresses and voices out her feelings more, brings these feelings Suwon doesn't want to show on the page, she shows them to us. Seen like that, Yona can maybe thematically be a representation of Suwon's repressed feelings.

(A bit differently but similarly, it is a similar process in chapter 221 where this time Suwon can't barely try in any effective way to narrate what he's thinking, what we see as panels and text boxes make no difference anymore, until it blows up for good when he has this flashback of Hak and Yona from chapter 11 and realizes he can't discard them. )

So, Suwon is a character that is shown to us in several ways. One, there is how he is seen from the outside, the way characters perceive what he shows to them or what is shown about him to them. This is the layer Suwon has the most control on in a way (even if not totally), as his position in the story makes him very conscious of his obligation to perform because people are watching him. He shows his full control and flexibility of his image in the ways he willingly pretends to be more naive and weaker than he really is to Geuntae, Soojin and Li Hazara for example. He plays with others' expectations and perception of him. Outside, Suwon is already full aware of how he is supposed to present himself, he already knows what is going to be shown or not for the most part. He allows himself to break out of character when he knows no one else watches him, which are the rare moments the narrative can show him when he's not performing. As the story advances however, these moments become much rarer as he is watched closely by more and more characters in his privacy.

On the other hand, there is how the higher narrative tries to show us his emotional state, his point of view and feelings. It is inherently something he as a character is very against of ever since he became King. Even then, what is shown to us at several occasions is Suwon's failure in showing us what he wants to show, instead having taken from/out of him what he doesn't want to reveal. The Crimson Illness is an interesting metaphor for it I think. It can easily be interpreted as a visible manifestation of Suwon's already existing struggles, after all. The Crimson illness makes all that is hidden visible to others. It gives it physical symptoms. Again and again, his illness and bloodline are revealed to others against his will. The illness is the crack to the performance Suwon tries to maintain as a strong King. It makes him vulnerable, forcing him to depend more on others. It breaks his role and how he wants others to see him. He wants to be seen as strong and independant and in control, but he can't control his episodes and when he is shown in a frail condition. It brings out what is inside, it makes his repressed thoughts visible to us readers as well, it's the reason why the narrative shows us his inner struggles more closely.

Suwon can only somewhat control and influence what is shown outside, which why I think he showed himself so little in the castle arc as an attempt to show himself only when he's in an "acceptable" state for it. In the end, he still pushes himself more than necessary when he has no other choice (and because he doesn't want to rely more on the people around him). However, after the South Kai arc Suwon knows important development. From then, Suwon has no choice but to face things for real : His is sick, heavily weakened and disabled by it, and is going to die soon. In parallel, he also acknowledges he can't discard Yona-Hak, and that he can and has to rely on them for Kouka's sake.

Chapter 243 is the very first time (Minsu aside I imagine, but we are not shown that) that Suwon himself tells someone directly about his bloodline and his illness. As said before, chapter 243 is an entire performance, but it's one where he got to choose the person he wanted to say these things to. However there is still a gap between what Suwon wants to show to Hak and what he doesn't want to show to others. The chapter is still framed not from Suwon's POV at all. Suwon has no privacy, even in a scene initially presented to be only between the two of them. The idea that at this point Suwon is allowed any privacy is unreliable framing influenced by Hak's flawed POV. Hak by then is not yet really aware of the existence and purpose of Suwon's personal bodyguards in detail. Suwon can convey messages undirectly, but because he still has to show himself a certain way to characters like the shadows he's not allowed to show things explicitely. He can only be seen through others' eyes, forced to rely neither on the images nor the text typed and shared by the narrator(s), but instead on the subtext and unintelligible scribblings. Suwon is still bound by the vow the Shadows made to themselves 10 years ago, but freed at the end by the vow bounding Hak to him. To Hak alone he can share his truth : that he can't and won't respond to his expectations, nor that he is only what he shows as King to others. No one else might understand, but he trusts Hak can get the message.

Then Suwon is attacked by Shinah, and at first we were not shown at all what Suwon was thinking and feeling. The second he wakes up in chapter 256, he leaves that behind him and thinks as a King again. However something important changed, obviously he still has people around him he has to act a certain way for, but the shadows are no more. The people left around him are more flexible and actually rejoice that Suwon decides to retreat. They don't know it was partly motivated by lingering feelings for Yona and Hak, but they're still more flexible and allows Suwon more privacy and agency.

So it brings us again to chapter chapter 261/262, which are to me the very first occurence of Suwon being allowed to be a character-narrator where he gets to truly show and tells his own story. Showing instead of being shown. Showing the experience and feelings of being seen. Chapter 262 doesn't only highlight the importance of gaze in Suwon's character, but is meaningful by making Suwon himself show it to Hak, and to us readers by proxy. This is what makes Suwon and Hak's interactions in this chapter so so important. Suwon, as already established, is still resolved to perform his duties as King until the very end. That's why he still doesn't show himself bare in front of the people of Kuuto, Mundok or Lili. He still has to be a strong King that inspires confidence and reassurance to them. He can't show that he is actually chronically ill and severely wounded. What citizens expect from the King is to be strong enough to withstand, resist, and win against all the disasters they face.

But when it's only Hak and Suwon alone next, Hak is of course annoyed. There is no one on the rooftop of the collapsing palace to watch and judge them. Suwon doesn't have to keep his armor, his King costume, and keep performing in front of him, acting like his wound doesn't hurt him this much and that he's perfectly collected. The shadows are no more, they're isolated from the city. Hak as we can see with chapter 200 or 224 is annoyed by all these roles and formalities and always go against them. This is what makes Hak free. Hak goes wherever he wants to be, will play any role needed to get there and let go of them when they get on his way. Hak says he sucks at letting go, but in a way he is much better at letting go of these things than Suwon is, even when he doesn't have to keep them.

Something interesting in this scene, as already pointed out by others, is the intent behind making Hak order Suwon to undress. Despite his tone, he still doesn't undress Suwon forcibly to then show him to all of us against his will, but encourages Suwon to act upon it himself. He is frustrated by Suwon's own passivity in regard to himself. Suwon has to ask for Hak's help, but it is still triggered by Suwon's own will. Hak forces Suwon to ask for the support he needs in order to have agency. Showing himself is difficult for Suwon, both literally because of his wound and emotionally because he is not used to it, so Hak helps him for it. Of course, the act of removing his armor and letting go of his father's sword is also when Suwon at long last can stop just performing as the King character he is supposed to be. Finally, through his trust in Hak, he can truly and openly show something different to us readers too.

Then Suwon talks about himself. Not just facts and objective information like he did in chapter 243, but how he feels and what /he/ sees. Finally, Suwon tells and shows.

This spread is one of my favorite of all times I think, because it just encapsulates everything I'm trying to explain with this post. Suwon is undeniably a character-narrator in this scene because of how he shows willingly and literally to someone else what he saw and felt, making this moment surreal. After all, it should be impossible for Hak to see that. The text in this spread is typeset like is any inner monologue and is not in speech bubbles. Hak, by the rules of narratology in comics is not supposed to hear any of it. They are thoughts inside of Suwon. However the last panel showing the bottom part of Hak's face seems to imply that Hak very much sees and hears it all. Hak here is in our exact position as reader, able to see, read, feel what Suwon is sharing inside of him. It's not something brought to the outside taken from him for it to be broken down, scrutinized and judged by others. Instead, Suwon makes us come to him inside. It is something incredibly private and intimate Suwon shows in full spread to Hak and us alone. It is precious. Suwon's narration transcends narrative layers to reach Hak's senses and ours at the same time. It represents how Shinah in dragon form is watching him, but by doing so he is very much the one to show himself and Shin-ah. It is not a first person narration where we would see things through his eyes, but a third person one, above. As a character-narrator, Suwon is obviously not at the top of the narrative hierarchy and Kusanagi is the one making all these narrative and laying out choices, but here, she lets Suwon carry the role of teller and shower. In chapter 249, she decided against showing that to us directly like she showed how he felt in chapter 221. She willingly gave Suwon the time and space to do it himself when he was ready to, to the person of his choice alone.

As Hak says at the end of chapter 262, Suwon can choose another path instead of repeating the same complicated one. As we've seen, his role as King indeed puts him in an overcomplicated and messy position where he has to jungle between clashing expectations and duties and his own feelings, making everyone and him first hurt in the end. From then on, Suwon can try another path for real.

In that same chapter before he removes his armor, Suwon also tells Mundok that he can't possibly influence the Heavens. So here, I have a final interpretation about this:

Aren't the Heavens the representation for a higher narrative layer? They're the ones making the "final" judgment and punishing characters or not, they're the ones making (one layer of) the narrative of the story through the prophecy. They can't be touched and reached for, they're in another world above the characters. Suwon is well aware that he is only a character with a defined role in the narrative, so to him, there is only so much he can do and it's pointless to fight against it. In chapter 268, Suwon says again that there's nothing he can do since they're not people. The Gods are the ones seeing and showing everything.

It is perfectly illustrated in chapter 268 with Yona. Yona didn't want to make it about Hak at all, she doesn't want to involve him in any of this, and doesn't openly mention and express her feelings for him inside the chalice because it is not her focus and priority then. Yet the Gods show everything against Yona's will and to her despair. They bring out and show her and us a majority of moments Yona shared with Hak, many that were supposed to be only with the two of them. But like the Shadows with Suwon, the Gods were always watching. Yona was able to make her own decision and was resolved to leave the chalice with the dragons before they brought this up in chapter 267. It is something shown about her and against her, they take from her any agency she had, she is trapped. Similarly to Suwon in chapter 221, she is forced to face feelings she underestimated the paralyzing power of.

However, I'd argue that Yona still managed to bring the Gods closer to us, at least from the invisible higher layer they were on the narrator hierarchy of the story to a layer inside the narrative. Again, she brought them on the page, she made them real, she made them characters and more "human". They're still entities with the power to show, but also visible characters that can be changed and talked with: they literally can be moved and influenced. Yona and Zeno showed them to us, in the sense of making them visible and revealing them to us readers. Maybe the way they treat Yona is their reaction against it, unconsciously. After all, bringing them on the pages of the story forced them to face their contradictions, it is threatening them. Unfortunately, by chapter 268 it still didn't strip them of their powers and ability to control the other characters' narrative.

But I think Suwon perfectly understood all of this. Suwon now has the power to show his perspective. Even if the Gods aren't people, he is free to choose the way he frames how he is seen and watched with his own subjectivity. He is now a subjective character, not only an objective (in the sense of being object) one. That's why his plan depends on getting the Gods' full attention on him. This page is so similar from Shinah looking at him in chapter 262 for a reason. Suwon now gets more control and freedom in what he can show and tell. Suwon literally brought the Gods down to us and showed them. It's not like Yona climbing up to them. Suwon has the power to influence the Heavens and the narrative, because Suwon is not only his static character role, but a character that can change and who we can openly feel for. He won't submit to the Dragon Gods' narrative like he was resigned to before. He is the narrative too. Like Yona or Hak or any other character we ever followed is. Akatsuki no Yona is a story about characters and their feelings, and Suwon can now fully embrace his power in it.

So I find the resonance between Suwon's developing agency in the narrative and the way readers engage with him really interesting. I guess Kusanagi didn't expect Suwon to be controversial the way he is to this day when she started the story and created him, but I like how she discusses it in the story and tied it so beautifully with his character arc. I said about chapter 243 that we shouldn't try to decipher Suwon's message, but actually I don't think that's true. I don't think Kusanagi is that pessimist about her readers. Sure, we see as much as the Shadows or as the Dragon Gods do but we're not them either. The characters share so much with us too, like seen in chapter 262. I think the story simply wants to encourage us to question how we engage with the characters and what we expect from them by representing caricatures of extreme fandom opinions (that can be pretty prevalent and very vocal unfortunately). Suwon himself was always a character we were encouraged to decipher, I think. Otherwise it would mean not trying to understand him at all because he played the role of an antagonist (or whatever he can be called) anyways, which is incredibly sad. I think we were always encouraged to resist against that and try to understand him despite his own resistance. Suwon needed to learn that it's okay to be vulnerable and show us, and that it won't make him less loved and cared for.

Suwon will probably always be a character that is scrutinized and judged in and outside the story, it keeps being so despite all recent developments. But today I am convinced that nor Suwon on his level as a character, nor the narrative will keep making him a character that is forever only seen by others anymore. Now we will see what Suwon sees and feels what he feels, he will show us. He will influence the Heavens and shake the narrative itself I'm sure, he will bring them all down to us.

I love you Suwon <3

[soo-won]

Something I really like about this is that I also feel like the japanese text highlights the parallel in both their stances irt the Gods. Like both Meinyan and Suwon use the word ゆっくり (yukkuri) for slowly, leisurely etc... Meinyan uses it in this page in "Let it be comfortable", and Suwon uses it for the "Make it last " line. I'm not sure what to make of this yet, but it's really telling to me to have Meinyan beg the Gods to let her have a comfortable end, whereas Suwon uses the same word to ask the very opposite ie: killing him slowly implying painfully. Meinyan submitting because she's just so tired and wants to be left alone in peace, and Suwon who says it as direct rebellion against the Gods. Meinyan saying she's been a good girl, trying to get their pity smh, and Suwon being everything but a good boy with them lol.

It's also an ironic reversal from their respective stances in the past. Like Meinyan was the one trying to convince Suwon to rebel and get the dragons for themselves and denouncing how unfair things are for them, whereas Suwon rejected it because he didn't have time to fight against it and only saw it as an obstable, trying to discard anything in relation to the Gods in his life at that point, in a way just accepting things as they were. Now Meinyan is the one who accepted it and is waiting passively, whereas Suwon is proactive (even if he's not motivated by the illness stuff so far).

In the same chapter we also have Zeno, again forced to "negociate" and let go of his greatest wish for Ouryuu's sake, Suwon kinda (?) looking upset while he does so and immediatly stabbing Hiryuu's neck, making Zeno's sacrifice vain. It just makes me feel like Suwon is officially done with all this bullshit and doesn't want to just wait for death without resisting first, trying to not let the Gods win anything.

I'm not sure it can really be connected to that as well but imo it kinda resonates with his "And then I felt at peace" in chapter 262 when he narrated about Shinah attacking him. Instead of passively waiting for death to come and accepting it, consequently making him feel "at peace", he now would rather make things last despite the sheer pain of his headaches + the upcoming (I HOPE NOT) attacks from Ouryuu. Suwon that kept saying he wants for things to end as quick as possible VS asking to make things last longer now. It also resonates with Yona in the Heavens indirectly. Like prefering to live in hell and in pain rather than accept peace in Heavens which the story equals to death several times.

From there I truly don't know where it will go, I'd really like to see Meinyan catch up and do something in the castle too eventually, but anyways I really like how Meinyan-Suwon/Zeno-Yona are interconnected in this one.

Meinyan begging god for a comfortable end to her existence, either through the illness which plagues her due to their blood in her veins or by the world dying from their rampage - only for the very next panel to show Soowon, also sick from this illness, actively fighting the gods

[herefortheships]

My unpopular opinion about the first Dexter ending is that it would have been a GREAT ending if Hannah McBitch wasn't in the final season at all. It's so incredibly nonsensical how Harrison looks at Hannah as a mom when he barely spent any time with her. He spent more time with Jamie, how come he never confabulated Jamie as his mother? That would have made more sense. Jamie could have also taken Harrison with her (even if it was made clear to the audience that her keeping him would be temporary) at the end; they didn't need to bring Hannah back.

It feels like the only reason to bring Hannah back was for her to take Harrison, since they had decided to kill off Deb. The last we see of Hannah in season 7, she appeared to be scorned by Dexter and ready to get revenge (the black orchid she placed at his door was definitely a THREAT). But then she returns and is ready to play nice? Makes no sense. Also makes no sense Dexter would have been okay leaving Harrison at her care, when she could easily kill him if his presence inconvenienced her in any way. Let's not forget she already tried to kill Deb, someone Dexter cares deeply about, because Deb had become a nuisance to her in season 7. What guarantee does Dexter have she will not attempt the same with Harrison at some point if she feels he's gonna get her caught? Or she doesn't want to take care of him anymore, etc? But I digress.

My point is, there was no role for Hannah in the final season outside of becoming Harrison's mother, since the role the show wanted to fit her in was already taken by Deb since the first freaking season. And if the show's PTB would have allowed Deb alone to fulfill that role in the end, even if they killed her off at the end of the series, the ending would have been actually quite solid (as much as I HATE that they killed her off).

Since the first season we had hints toward Deb being the person who makes Dexter realize he does in fact have regular human being emotions. THAT was Deb's ultimate role when it comes to Dexter, along with Rita's, along with Lumen's, along with Harrison's roles... A role they ultimately decided to give to this bland and late-introduced character of Hannah McKay. The show acts like Hannah did that for Dexter, when the catalyst for this realization (because personally I do believe Dexter always had the capacity to experience these feelings all along) was RITA. It's so annoying how the show treats Hannah like this life-changing character in Dexter's life, when he already knew he could experience love through Rita, when Deb has been there all along, when he already knew he had empathy and compassion when helping Lumen... All of them already showed Dexter he's more than just a dead-inside psychopath. But yes, the one who ultimately was meant to play this role in its most powerful expression in this show, in Dexter's discovery of his own self as a person with a complex range of emotions, was indeed Deb.

Whether you see her as his adopted sibling or a romantic interest is irrelevant, the first episode of the first season establishes Debra as the catalyst to Dexter's realization of his own humanity and the depth of his capacity to feel. Dexter says in the first episode: "I don't have feelings about anything, but if I could have feelings at all I'd have them for Deb". This line alone establishes this theme for the series. So an ending in which Dexter realizes his own capacity to feel things through Deb would have been ideal. Even when they chickened out of the romantic plot after season 6, they could have still gone with this theme and completed the story thread that was woven into the show since the very first episode of the very first season. And if they had to kill her off, then an ending in which Dexter understood he was the common denominator in the disgrace of those he loves, and decides to take his life after the loss of Deb, that would have also been a better ending. Tragic, but solid. An ending that made sense. Dexter jumping into the water after Deb and that being the end would have also been solid. But, like I said, if only Hannah's presence wasn't a thing in the end. Because Hannah muddies the waters. Because she detracts from Dexter's motivations to do what he's doing at the very end. Because, again, the show made is so it was Hannah's presence in Dexter's life that which enabled him to become aware of his own humanity and capacity to feel love and his want to be more "normal". They made it so Hannah was the one person with a magic touch to turn the wooden boy into a real boy 🙄. A character that meant so little both to the audience and to Dexter's story in a broad context.

Tl;Dr: if Hannah wasn't there, and we still got the same ending in which Deb gets killed and Dexter decides essentially to commit suicide by driving into the hurricane, and ultimately failing to kill himself, that would have made this terrible ending into something more digestible when taken in the context of the story that was being told right up until the moment Hannah shows up in season 7; a story in which Dexter becomes aware of his own humanity and capacity to feel, and his own reality as a killer ("I destroy everyone I love"), through his relationship with Deb and his love for her (again, whether you want to see them as adoptive siblings or in a romantic context).

[lawbreaker13]

There’s something about Elemental that I love but I can’t quite seem to articulate.

[Spoilers by the way]

At the end of the movie, Ember and Wade leave together so Ember can take her internship at the glass company. This is supposedly a full time thing for her, which means she’s moving. Like yeah, she underestimates herself like “oh it probably won’t go anywhere and I’ll be back home soon,” but that’s a very “ooh this is a big step and I don’t feel ready to move out” mentality (literally told my parents I’d be back at the end of my first year’s lease, it’s just a mental safety net, but boy was that a relatable line for me). Regardless of her lack of confidence in herself and this potential new job, she is moving out. And Wade is going with her.

She had said “I want to travel the world with you.” That’s great, and I hope they do, but that’s not what’s happening here. It’s said that this is several months, maybe even a year after the main events of the movie. The majority of the movie itself spans a couple weeks or so (edit: I counted, it’s about 8-12 days). So by the time they leave for Ember’s internship, Ember and Wade have been dating for a while. Anywhere between three months and a year. Wade is leaving with her, and it’s difficult for me to believe they’re going anywhere but the same place. Which means they’re moving in together.

Now I know that it sounds like I’m just freaking out and being incoherent about a ship, but the truth of the matter is, that’s really mature of Pixar.

Family friendly and kid-centric animation tends not to push anything but the “fall in love, kiss, get married, move in, have babies” pipeline. But what I loved about Elemental was that it portrayed a REALISTIC, HEALTHY, and MATURE relationship. One where the couple has arguments about real things that matter and after space, they talk it out. One where “I don’t understand” isn’t an invitation to shut down (even if Ember meant it that way in the heat of the moment), but an invitation to try and learn. One where anger and “I’m leaving” can be met with “I’m coming with you,” and one where the couple doesn’t just love each other right off the bat, they have to DATE MANY TIMES AND GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER, SEE EACH OTHER IN THE WORST OF TIMES, and THEN, realize they’re in love. AND they said it out loud, which doesn’t happen often either (edit: I am well aware that a week or two is a very short amount of time to fall in love, but I’m gonna cut them A LITTLE slack because it’s not like. 3 days, and also they seemingly saw each other every single day for those couple weeks and had the months after that. It’s rare, but sometimes, when you know, you know).

But beyond that. Beyond dating, getting to know each other, communicating and helping each other out, and deciding “yes, we can and should be together,” Elemental showed these two doing an adult thing together—leaving home and moving out. Because they are ADULTS. And the fact that I felt like this movie was targeted towards me and my peers the same way a PG-13 or R rated movie might be, strictly because of the realism in the character’s interactions and dynamic, that is something that I absolutely adore. Like, Zootopia was a kid’s movie with mature themes. Miraculous is a kid’s show with mature themes. Even Avatar: The Last Airbender was clearly targeted towards children, even though we all know it has something for everyone.

But Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. The Spider-Verse movies. And honestly, Elemental. These feel like our movies. Movies I’m glad the kids can enjoy, but they’re made for us. The 20- and 30-year-olds.

I’m just so happy to see animation studios treating adult characters like real people. Maybe soon people will start to recognize animation as a legitimate form of storytelling, too.

I loved Elemental. I really did.

[sodacrackpop]

I cannot emphasize enough that the reason Lumen is so hated in the Dexter fandom is because people hate realistic portrayals of trauma. They don't like the ugly side of it nor do they know how to handle or respond to it. I'm just so tired of how the fandom treats her and forgets literally everything she went through, they just have this romanticized version of how an abuse victim should act. Funny enough today I said this in a server and some guy proved my point by calling her annoying and saying she was acting stupid, plus tried to kill the guy who was helping her. He even had the nerve to say 'I know actual abuse victims, they act nothing like her' which is such a disgusting thing to say. It goes onto this idea of how an abuse victim should act or what is the acceptable way. Everyone copes and responds to trauma differently in their own way.

[crayolascribblz]

I have been fighting for my life with the brainrot of these two I actually cannot stop thinking abt them I've watched the movie twice they're so silly?!?

[bubbl3solution]

i find it endlessly funny that people on twitter saw these early elemental test animations and went “THIS IS WHAT WE COULD’VE ENDED UP WITH???!@;&” like no actually believe it or not there was a time when the animators were still learning how characters made entirely from water and fire worked. It’s almost like it took lots of trial and error to end up with the visually stunning movie that we have today. crazy isn’t it

[puzzled-pegasus]

things I noticed after watching elemental an unhealthy dose of times pt 2

wherE THE HELL DID WADE KEEP THE GLASS FLOWER. HE HAS NO PANTS. NO POCKETS. HE'S TRANSPARENT SO WED SEE IF IT WAS IN HIS WATER. WHERE DID HE KEEP IT?

It's possible that water people shirts have pockets on the inside i guess but still???

When Ember's light does the thing while she's fixing the leak with the glass

"More time for hanky-panky" how was that allowed?? Like it's not that bad, it's funny, but still???

Alkali theater. I feel like that's a joke relating to elements but I'm too lazy and stupid to figure it out lmfao

In the movie theater Ember gets excited about something in the movie and lights up, then notices that people around her are bothered by her glowing and crouches down and pulls her hoodie over her head further, suppressing her glow. Wade notices and his smile fades a little.

Ember is so smart?? Her quick thinking and ingenuity??? Also she and Wade's ability to ad lib off of each other when trying to keep their secret from Bernie (in the scene where they pretend Wade is a food inspector) is another Yes for their relationship lol

Ember can be seen crying a few times during the movie after the point where Wade first makes her cry during the family game.

Ember watching Wade in the stadium scene is, I think, where she first becomes attracted to him. The event impressed her enough for her to bring it up later!

Half of this is just me not looking at the damn screen enough. Wade and Ember hugging as Wade evaporates is low key terrifying?? It's so sad???

Where are Clod's parents???

Ember looked angry at Wade in the photo booth but I can't figure out why? I wonder if it's because he leaned close to her and she's afraid of being near water?

"I just didn't know she'd be so smoky...*cough cough*" depending on how much universe context you want to add to this, it can be either very endearing or lightly racist. Judging by the reactions of the characters, Ember doesn't seem too offended, but still.

The reason that Ember isn't able to simply "take breath, make connection" as Bernie instructs is because in order to do that, her father wants her to just give the customer what they want instead of teaching her how to calmly and professionally enforce shop rules. This causes her to push her own feelings down, which overwhelms her tremendously. The perspective that Wade gives her, advising her to listen to the deeper emotions underneath the temper and communicate them, (for example to her father about not wanting to take over the shop), is very healthy and important because he encourages her to verbalize her boundaries/wants/needs without losing control. The fact that he doesn't stand up FOR her, too, most of the time, is very cool. He simply encourages her to verbalize her feelings and stand up for herself. Additionally, this is also a feminist message, because women are often taught that they should never get angry and to repress their anger, when in fact they should be taught how to listen to and communicate their anger without harming anyone. In This Essay I Will

Sorry that last one was so long, I just like it a lot :)

Also whenever Ember says "oh flame" it's like saying "oh God" because the blue flame is her religion

[heathfall]

my Sunningrocks is the kitchen light switch

[doodle-doodie-doo]

Please tell me I wasent the only one who thought Ember was wearing a belt for the longest time

[soo-won]

What is your opinion of Minsoo and Lili characters?

They both seem neutral, but Minsoo gave Yona information during the xing War, and Lili took Yona's side in the same war.

Suwon is completely alone.

Hi Anon, thanks for the ask!

I don't see Lili and Minsu as "neutral" and I don't think it really works to take it this way to be honest. They're not neutral and don't pretend to be, they definitely have stakes and their own personal reasons to act the way they do with both Yona and Suwon. Rather, I think it's more that they don't feel that their loyalty to one of them is exclusive and cancels out their respect/loyalty for the other? You could say it's the case for most characters today, but yeah I guess they can be paired to say they had this stance before the official Yona-Suwon alliance and the developments that followed that made it just easier and like the "right" thing to do to support both of them. Like, Lili and Minsu were doing it when it had actual negative consequences to Suwon's reign (Lili hinting at the truth of the coup to soldiers, Minsu helping Yona with the Taejun strategy, and then in the castle arc calling Yona when Keishuk was about to get Hak executed etc). I think it shows their resistance of blind loyalty and following orders to instead follow their own free will when they're against something, on top of their affection/respect for Yona.

Also both characters' feelings towards Suwon and Yona are pretty different since Minsu was more directly involved and impacted by Suwon's coup. Like, Minsu has personal resentments towards Suwon and Keishuk for using him to kill and hurt the King and Princess he was happy and content serving, and then making him serve Suwon which made him feel intense guilt. He was also wounded and is now disabled from that night. Minsu appreciated Suwon and Keishuk honestly and they were childhood friends (that one panel of Minsu laughing with Keishuk lives rent free in my head like what on Earth were they talking about...), so he's very much a victim of a betrayal from people he trusted too. By the Xing arc Minsu doesn't really seem content serving Suwon because of all these reasons and it's more like he's forced into it. However once he meets with Yona again and makes him feel forgiven (I never really enjoyed that chaptersince I don't think he had to be "forgiven" by Yona for anything, but I get what it meant to him), I think he was free of the feeling it's a terrible sin to serve Suwon and started using that very position to help Yona.

So, yeah, if you had to choose one "side" Minsu is on, he's probably more on Il and Yona's side. After all, Il is a lord he "chose" to serve, whereas Suwon was pretty much imposed to him when he least wanted it. Minsu's role by that point was to be a character serving Suwon that actually feels more for Yona and help her "against Suwon". However does that make him strictly Yona's follower? I don't think so either. After all the one he is serving right now is very much still Suwon and he doesn't resist against it or give up everything to join Yona instead. Maybe it's because he contractually can't because of the illness, but personally I don't really feel like that's the only reason. To me it feels more like Minsu has accepted his position as Suwon's physician and is content with it despite his conflicted feelings.

Minsu's "neutrality" stems from the pretty unique fact that he is really familiar with both Suwon's and Yona's past background. Hak only knew the Yona/Il part. Keishuk only knew the Suwon/Yuhon part (Judo also witnesses a bit of both but is in another different position). Minsu knows the environment Suwon grew up in, knows about the Crimson Illness, was here when Yuhon and Yonhi died and felt for them, and then became Il's physician and witnessed the environment Yona lived in and Il's death and felt for them as well. In a way, that makes it that today he's probably one of the character who has seen the most of Suwon's life. He knows both the dynamic of Suwon and Yuhon's faction and the dynamic Suwon had with Yona and Hak.

He is also the first character that knew about Suwon's illness and to whom Suwon showed himself physically more vulnerable. He's the one servant that sees the most of Suwon's vulnerability in general I'd say. Like when he questions Suwon about his actions hurting Yona again in Xing, or witnessing everything happening between main trio in the castle arc and later. This unique history makes him aware of Suwon's own circumstances and unable to completely reject and blame him for everything either. Like he says in Xing, part of him believes that Suwon as a King probably can't advance embracing kindness, but he can't really swallow the idea of others and particularly Yona suffering from the consequences either since he also believed in Il's peaceful ideology.

I've felt very neutral about Minsu for a long time if not a bit annoyed by him because "one more character siding more with Yona than Suwon" etc etc... But I have to admit that the more it goes the more I am endeared by his relationship with Suwon. Maybe he can never forgive him or Keishuk as he said before, but in practice he interacts with them on a daily basis and work together very functionally? There is no conflict, they just...cooperate normally, even if there can be tension. Like you could criticize akayona for the pattern of every character ending up warming up to Yona eventually but lowkey I think it's often the same for Suwon.

Many characters aren't immune to him either and can't help but understand where he comes from and try to sympathize. Maybe it started as just a job and a duty to Minsu, but to me it looks like he seriously got into it, no? I don't think he simply hates Suwon. Similarly to Yona (even if probably much less intense) it feels more nuanced than that.

Minsu is also very serious and determined about his job and finding a cure to the Crimson Illness. Maybe it's also partly for Meinyan and Yona's sake like it is for Yun, maybe it's for his pride as a physician, maybe it's because Suwon dying would be a hindrance, but he always runs to Suwon when he''s in need of his expertise, even when Suwon doesn't ask. He seems genuinely concerned about the evolution of Suwon's illness, and he is moved to see Yona and Hak connect with Suwon again. I don't think someone that doesn't care in the slightest and would be against someone would do all that.

When Suwon doesn't believe there's any merit in looking for solutions for his illness, Minsu is the one person insisting to look into the senjusou and exploring all leads without being asked by anyone else. He's the one that asked Keishuk to deploy Hak for it too. Minsu acting on his own accord is first shown in his initiative to help Yona in the Xing and Castle arc, but I'd argue that it also very much shows with Suwon too. And it's a pretty neat thing if he's so dedicated even if only for his own convictions as a physician. That makes him trustable and it shows that any personal grudges he might have doesn't change anything about that. He is loyal to Suwon as his personal physician and it gives Suwon the justice of deserving medical treatment no matter what.

(I've seen people read this part as Minsu being angry at Keishuk, but to me it was always more like Minsu just feels kind of complicated and conflicted about the situation? Minsu was also "close" to Keishuk before, so he must understands how much it means for Keishuk to say something like that and to let Hak go look for the senjusou. Like it just feels more ambiguous than straight up being mad at him...it conveys the seriousness of the situation AND Minsu's mixed feelings about these developments imo. But I admit that may just be my wishful thinking. Like I don't get what on earth Minsu potentially being pissed off at Keishuk would even add and bring to the story here)

I think he can care in this mysterious third secret way precisely because he was friends with Suwon and Keishuk in the past and was fond of Yona and Hak. He inherently has a sense of familiarity with all of them. The fact he respected Il and Yona and was hurt personally by what happened to them also makes it that he sees Suwon differently and allows himself to make comments to him that the other people serving Suwon wouldn't make. Like, that makes him correctly call out Suwon when he's being a bit hmm oblivious? too pessimistic and negative? about Yona and Hak for example, which reveals Suwon's innocence and vulnerability when it comes to them. Such is possible only because Minsu is the only person around Suwon aware of main trio's history and who knows both Suwon and Yona well. Minsu saw how Yona and Suwon used to interact before so he knows perfectly well what makes Suwon feel awkward and unsure sometimes, like, you could say Minsu knows about Suwon's embarassing past or something lol, which is only "embarassing" in the context of Suwon being King and acting like everything before with Yona and Hak was all fake when he visibly cared very much for them.

So even if it's because he's disillusioned about Suwon and that he's feeling for Yona, I don't think it's a bad thing that Suwon has someone with this stance by his side. Minsu can see well through the armor of Suwon as this sound reasonable and pragmatic King, and also see him as a person that happens to be awkward and clumsy when it comes to his relationships with others especially Yona and Hak, without using it against him or pushing him to conceal it even more. In these little moments he treats Suwon like a normal person more than like a King or his lord. And the fact he's moved by main trio connecting and working together to me shows that he is deep down rooting for the three of them to reunite and not be against each other on "different sides".

It doesn't mean Minsu likes and cares for Suwon super super deeply or anything, he was also always more distant from him than Yona and Hak or Keishuk, but there are things he only can see and point out thanks to this distance too imo. So, in what way is Minsu leaving Suwon alone? I would say he barely leaves him alone at all tbh. What does it mean exactly to take someone's side? Minsu might have grudges against Suwon and feel conflicted about his actions and he might even sometimes act "against" him through Yona, but to me it's again part of the misconception that everything has to be a dichotomy between "Suwon's side" and "Yona's side" even if that was a misconception shared in universe by many characters as well. Never has Minsu acted personally against Suwon and try to hurt him as far as I can remember. Helping Yona in Xing wasn't to harm Suwon in any way, it was because he wanted to help Yona not lose her family again. Calling Yona in chapter 201 wasn't against Suwon either, it was because he didn't want Hak to be killed. And even after what Suwon did and tried to do it didn't stop Minsu from treating Suwon the same as his physician in any way.

As long as he helps Suwon and shows concern for him, I'm fine with Minsu having complicated feelings for him and personally prefering Yona as a person or whatever. Like does it really matter when the facts are that he is genuinely concerned about Suwon's health and will never betray his duty to him as a physician? When in the present he argues all the time against Suwon pushing himself too hard and believes in his survival against all odds and Suwon's own beliefs? It's kinda endearing to me too that both Suwon and Keishuk have this guy with them calling them out sometimes but never to their detriment nor making it as dramatic as it is with Yona or Hak. It feels a bit like teasing and something that can only be because they've known each other forever. I also like when Minsu argues a bit with Suwon and Keishuk about not pushing Suwon too hard etc...He's a bit like a needed reasonable force as a physician sometimes, and they allow it and never punish him for any of his oppositions. Maybe that's because they can't afford to get rid of Minsu, but the tension stemming for that is pretty lovely to me...i love their strange coworker bond so much.

Is Minsu that deep? Maybe not, but he's deep enough to simply have complicated and ambiguous feelings towards Suwon and I don't mind that. Him siding with Yona sometimes doesn't erase his efforts to help Suwon, which I can't help but appreciate as a Suwon fan. Is what Suwon need only loyalty, or also people that are simply fair and honest with him?

Like, truly no offense anon but the statement "Suwon is completely alone" is just so sad? :') Even if Suwon is more emotionally closed off from the people around him, he is not alone, and I feel like this just validates Suwon's own insecurities to be honest. I obviously know what you mean when you say "alone", like, yeah he has no one fully supporting and prioritizing him above all else all the time, right? But I don't think it means he's alone at all either.

He was kept alive so far by so many characters around him who, no matter their reasons, desperatly and often risked their life to protect him or follow his orders. He has Hyuri that would do everything for him, he has Judo and Keishuk who even under the prestance of doing it for Kouka's sake also do everything to protect Suwon in every possible ways, even at the cost of their own pride, he has the generals respecting him, he has the people of Kuuto that want to protect Kuuto so their "cute little Won won't cry", he has Yona and Hak that don't leave him alone when he needs help, he has Minsu nursing him, and he has Lili. A friend who despite loving and admiring Yona deeply and criticizing Suwon if he were to harm her, doesn't end their relationship here and comes by to chat with him casually a few chapters later like it doesn't affect their relationship, a friend who wants to protect Kuuto in his absence and runs after him in a collapsing castle. All these little things by all these characters aren't meaningless, Suwon is surrounded by many many people that can't help but care for him! No matter what these characters also do for Yona will never change and erase what they do for Suwon.

Like, when it comes to Lili, the very fact she hangs out with Suwon despite knowing what he did to Yona and feeling bad about it is precisely what makes it so meaningful. Lili is different from Minsu in that she is not familiar with Suwon and Yona's pasts. She had no personal stakes in Suwon murdering Il and doesn't really disagree with the act itself, she only knows Suwon and Yona from their present. She met both of them without knowing their identity either and so got to become more familiar with them completely unbiased about the situation and their relationship. But that doesn't make Lili fully neutral. She cares for both Yona and Suwon simply for who they are as the two people that saved and inspired her, so even if she feels "neutral" about the coup itself and their past, she isn't neutral about them in the present basically.

So of course she is against Yona being captured and killed by Kouka's army and would take her defense. But again it doesn't mean she does it in Suwon's detriment at all either. She says explicitely that she doesn't want to believe it would undermine Suwon's position. She simply didn't want Suwon to kill her. Siding with Yona doesnt mean wanting to hurt Suwon at all. It doesn't change her relationship to Suwon at all actually, this is the wonderful thing about their friendship! It's the reason why she feels hypocritical too, but that's what for example differentiate her from Hak who can't help but have his relationship with Suwon heavily impacted by Suwon and Yona's conflict.

Suwon and Lili's ability to interact casually and like nothing happened even after Lili defending Yona from him in chapter 141, or after them not seeing each other for ages in chapter 261 is the kind of relationship that is extremely good for Suwon! Like, Lili isn't so affected by Suwon not contacting her at all for a while, Lili isn't so affected by the idea Suwon might be annoyed by her actions in the Xing arc, she isn't so affected by the idea Suwon invites her only because it serves him practically etc. Maybe she's a bit harsh in her assumptions that Suwon doesn't care at all sometimes, but this sense of distance coming from this disillusion about him is what permits her to enter so casually Suwon's personal space. She's running straight ahead and often recklessly in dangerous territories, but that frankness is a strength that made her break through some of Suwon's walls as well. So many people in Suwon's life care so so much about anything he says and does one way or another, that someone like Lili that interacts with Suwon not because she expects him to give her anything but just because she wants to is extremely refreshing and moving.

What I think about Lili is that she's one of my favorite thing in the manga and her presence in a chapter has the power to make 100000x happier. She is so important and I love her position between Yona and Suwon. She is so cool and funny. She just feels so fresh. I don't think Lili cares about "Yona's side" or "Suwon's side" so much deep down even if she questions herself about it. She just does whatever she wants to do. She wants to be close friends with Yona and she wants to hang out with Suwon. Maybe that's "incompatible" like she said, but she does it anyways and in the end it...works? Maybe this assumption that such thing such as siding with both at the same time is impossible was never true to begin with and we just needed someone to try it out even before Yona and Suwon's alliance made it pratically more compatible, no? It's similar to the Xing conflict to me in a way. Suwon and Kouren didn't believe avoiding war and an agreement between their two countries was possible, yet Yona made them try anyways and it wasn't perfect or without any sacrifices and grudges but... it worked! They just had to try and surprisingly they even can get along personality-wise.

If you turn it around, does Minsu serving and trying to cure Suwon means he's against Yona and doesn't care about how Suwon hurt her and killed Il? Does Lili hanging out with him casually despite what he did to Yona means that Lili is "against" Yona? Does Yona and Hak defending Suwon mean that they forgot about Il or how he hurt them? Does Hak helping Suwon mean he's against Yona and doesn't care about her? Does Yona not wanting Suwon to die mean she forgives him for killing Il? Of course not, right? These things are not incompatible. The characters can be against and disagree with others for some things, and side with them for others things and still love each other (more or less)...I don't think it's much more deeper than this in the end.

Does Suwon need everyone to agree with him all the time and to follow his every order, or someone that will interact with him like a normal person and an equal? If you ask me, I think he needs both in the context of the story. I sometimes even feel that I wish there was some kind of character just being a Suwon fanatic in universe a bit like Mizari with Kouren for example, things like that... That Suwon had characters for him like Meinyan has Kaji etc... Characters like Hyuri Keishuk and Judo who are loyal to him, or Ogi and the people of Kuuto that love him overtly and will do everything for him are just as important. But he needs not only that but all different kinds of relationships! He needs a Minsu and a Lili and a Hak and a Yona too. As long as all these people will be here Suwon will never be alone. They're here already, even if he struggles to realize just how much he is cared for and admired and trusted. In the end, I think it's just so fitting of him to have all these kind of unconventional and unique relationships. Just believe in his boundless charm Anon <3

[soo-won]

Hi Al! I'm not sure I have much positivity to share exactly but I still want to try to like? maybe give another kind of perspective that helps process things with more peace and acceptance?

very long post under the cut sorry..., but there is too much to say about Yona and the themes of the story!

To begin with, I don't think this scene says anything more than what we already discussed at length after chapter 257, it only confirms it even more, but this is really a time paradox huh. Hiryuu considered stopping things in his time, Hiryuu didn't throw his sword away, Hiryuu could have done everything Yona has done now too. But he didn't, because Yona was there and told him not to. Like...I don't think Hiryuu literally made Yona exists when wishing to live longer, she had to already be existing in the future for it to happen, so it's more that their soul connected through time and space in the one moment their heart called for the same. It doesn't make sense logically in term of timeline and cause/consequence because we deal with the divine and souls I'd say.

But I don't think Hiryuu had trouble reconciling with loss really? Yona definitely does, but Hiryuu wasn't really trying to like reunite with the dragons again himself. He left that to Yona. What caused him anguish is the idea of dying before freeing the dragons and especially Zeno. His wish to live longer is not so different from Suwon's, it's out of not wanting to leave things unaccomplished. To me what the gods say in chapter 264 imply that first of all they let the dragon warriors go on even having no idea whether Hiryuu would come back at all and when, and also that even if he did come back to them, they would have still not put an end to it because they just don't care. Like without Yona asking like she did they would have let the dragons die and be born again and kept Zeno immortal too. Even now I'm still not convinced they made Zeno mortal again, like isn't that something only the dragon in his blood can decide? And we've only seen 3 dragon gods out of 4 in ch264 so hm. However Hiryuu the individual is very much over and I think he was aware of it and accepted it. Again I swear I can't tell if Hiryuu realized Yona was from 2000 years in his future, but whatever he thought, he accepted to let her deal with everything after him and it means exactly that, we're after him. Hiryuu the person is no more. It is only speculations, but if Hiryuu decided to not return to heavens even after death, I'd say it's because as a soul without any vessel he maybe wouldn't have had any mean of action? But honestly what would have happened to Hiryuu's soul is complete mystery so I just don't know tbh, it's something that feels a bit pointless to theorize over for now.

But this chapter also implies Yona didn't really process in ch257 that what she was doing is dooming 2000 years of generations of dragons. She was in the middle of a quest to retrieve her friends, in that quest she was brought in that past where she stopped them from being completely erased from existence as they are now, and then chased after them again with a new resolve. Yona has a very finite goal in this arc: she wants to see her friends again. She wants to save them. She doesn't think about saving the world at all right now. That glimpse into the past was only that to her, her present is what drives her. It's not that she really doesn't care about the dragons' sufferings, it's that from her POV, it already all happened and she wants to make things different now. She had the power to make things different before we agree, but what she's doing now is trying to argue that she doesn't want the gods nor Hiryuu/her to have that power at all over the dragons or anyone to begin with. She throws away the sword, symbol of power over life and death, the one that has been teased since the prologue of the story that we thought was a flashforward to the ending...And Yona rejects it all. She's not being Hiryuu at all here I think. She's fully Yona. She's not some hero trying to restore the world from darkness like a hero of legend, she only follows her heart, and it's Suwon having that goal right now. She's not a King descending from the Heavens to make or protect a country like Hiryuu, the only thing Yona has ever done and is doing here is trying to help the people that she knows are in need, and here especially because she knows only her can do it. Of course, as the chagol arc developed she can see beyond her circle of close friends and she wants to find a way to end wars too etc...But the way she goes at everything is the same. In this chapter she realizes that she really made the dragons wait forever and all that suffering has to end here and now. She says it, she can't let them suffer any longer.

And in a way it's a nice twist to what the narrative hinted at until now. Many in the past (in universe and among us readers) thought that Yona is here now to save the whole country from some kind of "darkness" like Hiryuu in his time (supposedly), but that's not it. Sure, Yona did influence, change and help many people in her journey for real, but she finally found the meaning of her existence as Hiryuu's reincarnation: like Taejun said long ago, it is far more humbler or what we can call "selfish". The meaning of being reborn with the red dragon's soul is to save the dragons, not the world. The world doesn't need the gods after all, it needs the power of people. And driven all along by that simple prayer without even being aware of it, she indirectly moved and inspired others to protect the country and its people themselves. This is a bit different from Hiryuu too. Maybe he had similar feelings, but he failed to accomplish any of that in the end. He made the people depend on him, he saved them, but once he died they were lost and could not find the will and power to do anything but to cling on his symbol and depend on the skies again. In the end, he couldn't truly save and protect anyone in a lasting way. He himself points it out in Zeno's flashback arc actually: No matter what he does, war never ends. Maybe by then he had realized that his existence on Earth is actually pretty pointless and meaningless, that he can't give humans eternal peace. That it was arrogant of him to think he could just come and do that.

So I agree with you on this, and the story hasn't adressed this, but...Hiryuu loved humans I truly think so, but he still went at it like a god. Like? He became their King. He led people to wars. He was still very much above them. He accepted everything that made him special in the human world, he chose for them, then died and left everything behind. He should have died if not for the sword the Gods gave him and the Dragon Warriors. (By the way, the fact they didn't let him be killed is interesting? Like Hiryuu dying technically should made him come back to them sooner, yet they went out of their way to protect him like they did. Curious.) This wasn't explored at all for now but honestly I'm not surprised since Hiryuu was still new at this whole humanity thing wasn't he? That'd make sense to me that he either felt pressure to still be a special existence as a human and/or that he didn't know any other way to "help" them. He's more human than the other gods that hate anyone against them and love anyone worshipping them, but loving every humans whether they betray him or not without any conflict (as far as we know, like, we've never seen him be upset, have we?) is still pretty arrogant of Hiryuu. Yona is different because she was born human. She doesn't love and feel for everyone unconditionally and by nature. She hates and feels upset by others, she feels conflicted, she has to make the active effort to learn and understand others better, even those she doesn't like. Like what Hak said about Suwon (which was pretty unaccurate), loving everyone is the same as loving no one. Hiryuu surely developed deeper, more genuine feelings for the dragons (and I'd hope his wife and children too?), but it was already too late.

Another point is I believe what Suwon and Hak discuss in chapter 262 can apply here too. Suwon and Hak have no power to actually redo anything over, so when they talk about it it's only as a what if scenario, but the conclusion is that rather than changing or "correcting" the past by receving punishment, Suwon should rather find a better way next time in their life /now/, moving forward. And I fully agree with that. First because he didn't do anything wrong he should regret <3 But also because admitting that the way things happened was painful to him and Yona and Hak and that's the real tragedy of that night, then yeah, I want to wish for a way for Suwon to accomplish his ambitions without having to discard his feelings too.

But even if they had the power to go back in time and despite being fully aware of the suffering he caused to some, Suwon has no regrets, and yeah of course he doesn't! I wouldn't want him to! That'd be like rejecting all he accomplished and lived for and the people he helped and saved and worked with etc etc...It might have been painful and unfair at times but that's the only life he has. He wouldn't change a thing but he can grow and learn and use his past experiences to do better. So...I feel like the story applies that same logic to Yona and the dragons. Accepting to let Hiryuu put an end to the dragon warriors in the past is like accepting to reject all her life since she met them if not before, and the time she lived with them, and what they felt and accomplished together, and how she changed and could learn to stand on her own thanks to their help etc...They mean all that to her. And no matter how miserable the lives of the previous dragons were, it doesn't feel right to erase that completely either, right? They didn't deserve any of that but erasing this history and these existences doesn't do them justice imo. If there was a way to make all the past generations have fulfilling happy life without sacrificing the present that'd be amazing but then it'd feel like nothing truly matters too. Admitting we could ask for the present dragons' opinion, Zeno aside, I'd be surprised if they said they want that too. They're characters that /would be made/ to think that, sure, but that wouldn't be out of character, would it? The fact Yona decides for them still is a problem, that's true, but that's different from saying Yona made the wrong choice. As we discussed it's indeed also hard to not see things from the POV of the past, from Zeno's POV, from the hundreds of dragons who waited and suffered all their life in vain. But we're in a time paradox and we can only turn in circle about this like. Yeah that's terrible for all the dragons of the past and Zeno, but the other choice would likewise be terrible for the present dragons and everyone now, but then again it's terrible for the past dragons...etc etc...there's no end to it.

What actually bothers me more in this chapter is how easily Yona chooses to put an end to the dragons' powers in their stead. Like, the one thing people blamed Zeno for was how he took away their agency, but Yona does very much that again here. Sure it's kinda the only way to possibly free them AND keep them alive, and it's really a case of "what Yona thinks shouldn't matter bc it should be about what /they/ think, but alas to the gods Yona's opinion matters more so that's how it is" but that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth that it will supposedly be resolved like that for them. I wish things were executed in a way that showed them consent to it? like regaining some consciousness or being able to communicate with her in some way? or even hint at wishing for something of the like before? I...don't have any hope they will resent Yona for it at all since they'd probably be made more busy worrying for her next etc but I can only pray the story will dare to take some little time for them to process the loss of their powers and what does that make them now, and what can they do to help from now on etc. But wait and see.

So to me the core of the problem is not Yona's decision, it's Yona's writing overall. What we yearn for is Yona to be challenged in her beliefs. To be wrong. To fail. To be held accountables for her mistakes and grow from them. For the story to truly own the ways Yona is indeed not perfect, instead of making her not perfect but still framing it like she is. To me the solution to this isn't for her to kill Zeno with that sword or anything of the like at all. I want Yona to be wrong but not about everything and not about her feeling everyone deserves a better ending. I want akayona to reach its happy ending, I want Zeno to either be able to die happy with no such tragic conditions or either to be allowed to live a normal human lifespan from now on, I want the dragons to live as normal humans, I want the Hiryuu descendants to be saved and live long life too. But I want to see Yona struggle to achieve these. And by struggle I don't mean just the story throwing things at her that she has no responsibility over, I mean...doubting herself, falling, failing, correcting herself, learning from others and her own mistakes and not only the ones she made before the coup.

But akayona has carried this flaw since the end of the Awa arc lowkey, the spotlight is never on Yona admiring and learning from others (but Hak I guess...), it's always others admiring her and learning from her. Truthfully, I don't think that's true, and definitely she learns from others like Kouren, Meinyan, Suwon, Keishuk even lol but that's only something you can infer from what happens, whereas what is highlighted is always how admirable, noble and good and loved she is. I don't think this was much a problem before the Xing arc, as what happened in the Fire/Water tribe arcs compensated the beginning of this terrible trend for Yona's writing, but I'd say starting Xing (which I still believe is an arc with excellent character moments), every villain/antagonist only existed so Yona and the character she had more "complex" and interesting interactions with and that challenged her, could work together against a common enemy and resolve the lazy way all conflicts that existed between them. Like,, Gobi was just that for Yona and Kouren to me. Then Chagol for Yona and Meinyan (even if admittedly Chagol had more going on than Gobi lol), and now the gods for Yona and Zeno. If you zoom in, it's not just that, and I believe there is still good to be taken from how things turned out but...overall I don't think this serves Yona's character development in a way I'd find really meaningful. I assume it's this way exactly to convey the idea that all these characters are all driven by the will to protect something, and in different circumstances (like against a stupid common enemy) they realize they're not so different and are not "bad" people but I can't help but feel unsatisfied with how things are resolved everytime. She grows still but it's just like...she gains more experience and knowledge. There's nothing to resolve. It's not inherently a bad thing but it fails to move me like it did at the beginning and imo it can be a burden for the story akayona is telling.

Like I said, her goal in this arc is to save her friends but...there's nothing special or novel in that. This happened many times before. Of course she's going to save her friends. Like she always did. I fail to see anything meaningful in the new things Yona say or do now because I'm just "yeah that's nice, but it's not like she struggled with that before"(before meaning everything after the awa arc). It's so hard to feel it for me, because it feels like a given. And for a final arc I find this anticlimatic. Even now, I did want for Yona to be stuck in Heavens with the gods, but I hoped it would be a bit more the result of her own flaws than the gods 100% forcing her and her simply not realizing this would happen I guess? In a way you could call the current development a struggle, but you know, we have never seen Yona struggling defying the gods before like. She always confronted people with higher authority and/or more power than her. Kumji, Hiyou, Chagol. Sure these people have more and more power and she got hurt confronting them but it's not like Yona emotionally struggled against them the way she did with Suwon in the past, where you can clearly see her progress everytime she faces him and the people around him again. The only other place I see real progress is in her relationship with Hak like how she can more easily says she loves him now, or being able to protect him like she always wanted etc. Which is a shame because the development of these two (and more especially Hak I painfully have to admit) can actually be seen through their interactions with far more characters.

So now this is the part I make it a bit about Suwon I'm sorry... Because I can't agree with what I've read in the notes of your post about him. You did not say these things yourself but I still want to give my two cents on this as someone that loves him and often feels upset for him because of what akayona throws at him.

Things changed, god knows how much I hated it in the castle and chagol arcs pretty much for the reasons i listed just above, but despite everything I truly believe Suwon's very existence will always challenge Yona (just like she challenges his) and that it still does now. That again Suwon highlights Yona's emotional development well too (again, it's mutual). And that at least with him, nothing is resolved easily. Unlike with other characters, there was never anything more challenging for them but to work together against a common enemy. Being kinda stuck together in the Chagol arc only made things infinitely more complicated and painful and conflictual than they already were. The way it presented it was disconcerting to say the least, and I almost dropped akayona for real from it, but with them it never was as easy as "oh this person saved/helped me now I love them and I will do anything to help in return!", like, from both sides. And it's because even after chapter 221/224 and the Chagol arc I could tell Suwon would not simply end like Kouren or Meinyan or anyone Yona helped before in the narrative that I finally started to breathe slightly more easily. It can be similar in some ways, but I still see a lot more nuances with him than previous examples. And it's still not fully resolved between them. And Yona and Hak had to change their stance irt Suwon and the people around him continuously from the beginning to now too. (Yona moved me the most recently when she found Hyuri in this dark alleyway when she was in the middle of running after Zeno, stopped and sat at his level, and could talk about Suwon from the past like the child he was like no one did before, and that she could see Hyuri not as a crazy violent murderer like Hak and Mundok did in that same chapter, but the man watching over Suwon and protecting him, someone that Suwon needs by his side. That she can say she wants Suwon to live, and this time it doesnt feel like it's only about "dying selfishly on her" but simply the feeling of wanting him to be there, even if not part of her life, and that she could be grateful to Hyuri and thank him for protecting her friends...that's all immensely meaningful imo! Even if nghh Hyuri's monologue in response is siighhh...come on. (gestures) akayona.)

It's so damn slow with them, and Hak is still angry and will always have grips even if they reached a point they can help each other more honestly now, and Yona will never forgive Suwon, and Suwon will never regret what he did nor apologize for it. And Suwon still carries his own convictions and ideology that to this day still go at odds with Yona and Hak. I'm not saying Suwon is immune to akayona's problems at all, I'm painfully aware he isn't, but I still believe his existence in the story now has a lot of meaning and brings a lot of nuance and food to ponder more about everything else. And it's not a bad thing that Suwon accepts them more like...that feels like the natural progression. Of course they wouldn't always stay super distant and confrontional and they would slowly work together closer and closer as they all influence each other, grow, and understand each other better. We as readers might want for Suwon to forever act like Yona and Hak aren't special and important because yeah it's cathartic but...Suwon has never been like that. They were always special to him, from chapter 1. Suwon is his own character, not just a proxy for people tired of (gestures) the AnY narrative that makes everything about Yona and Hak. The same way the shadows can't accept how things changed and force Suwon to be what he's not. Of course, it doesn't change how irritating it is that yeah everyone sides with YonaHak eventually and tend to prioritize them over what they cared about before or themselves, like they're pawns more than characters, and of course Suwon isn't real and was purposely written this way and recently I feel so pained because I so wish it let other characters play a role in his development...but I'd say that tbh if Yona and Hak have to be special to someone I'm fine if it's Suwon. The way he chose the country over them is still so meaningful and admirable. Yona herself said she understood, Hak recently acknowledged that fact even if he could never do it himself. But it's at the same time true that it hurt him to kill his own feelings because of this ideology, and even more so if that makes him accept death so easily. Readers might do that at lot, but I genuinely dont think the manga actually judges if Suwon was right or wrong. It's not about that. It focuses on the characters' conflicting feelings in changing circumstances. As much as I think akayona has a problem with the way it frames things, Suwon's side included, it paradoxically still let a lot of nuances be. It often resolves things in a lazy, infuriating stupid way, yet it's not as bad it feels like either? If it makes sense. Once again it's not like Suwon throws away all his convictions for them! And that's part of the still on going tension and conflict! The execution stings half of the time I can't pretend otherwise but... No matter what I don't want to close my eyes to what is definitely there I guess.

Also, the fate of Hiryuu descendants weren't mentioned at all yet. I don't think it's a problem I think it will be adressed when the time comes. I don't want to wish on a star but my two cents now are: Yona freed the dragons from what tied them to the divine, and she pretty much used her divine authority to do so, but she didn't realize how herself is bound to the divine and probably needs to cut that tie as well. And I suspect that if there is a way for Yona to lose all connection to Hiryuu and be saved, then it will be the exact same key to free Hiryuu's descendants. And Suwon is on his way to the mausoleum, and Suwon famously hates Hiryuu and sees him as useless...Like if there's someone that is damn annoyed whenever Yona is perceived and treated like Hiryuu and by the crimson illness it's Suwon, so...wait and see... I'm sure Hak will have some major role as well but I don't like much when Hak has a role I don't really care about that for now, but recently I appreciate the way he's written so! (Like...flawed and struggling and having inner conflicts that he grows from and stuff...give that back to yona omfg).

In the end I think Yona's character is still meaningful in many ways. She doesn't move me like before, and it's painful to think she is not written like I'd want her to, in a way I can connect with again, but she is amazing to analyze and break down like that and she is the root of many fascinating questions. Like yes that's cool the narrative revolves around the feelings and experience of this girl in a male dominated world, i like the different layers of her identity as a normal girl, a princess and god reincarnated, it's cool it's about her gaining agency and power and that the male characters are here to support her, it's cool she hates that it's at the price of others losing that agency and she wants everyone to be there and free. It's beautiful that she always feels so grateful of people for helping her and hugs them and thanks them everytime. It's amazing that she's the kind of character to never give up, but also acknowledges she wouldn't have been able to without people being here for her first. I like how she cares for people, the "discarded" ones like she does. How even if she's ignorant and doesn't understand everyone's feelings and experience at first, she constantly tries to. I love that when meeting Zeno, believing that he had no power that could "protect" her like the others, she was glad to meet him only for his warmth and because she felt happy with him. I'm glad when she told Kija, that was always convinced he was born to protect Hiryuu, that she wants him with her even now that he feels like a burden. That she told them that them dying like that because it's their fate and duty is not okay again and upsets her, that she's grateful for Kija just being there even if he can't fight. I like that she wants to break all cycles and refuses the unfair destiny imposed to the people around her. She loves her friends, she loves people, despite the way she can be inconsiderate/insensitive/unfair too, which is important to point out of course. It's because it's not black and white that it's so hard.

There are countless things to say about her and she is more than either the perfect badass 10/10 queen everyone praise no matter what she does or the terrible person that doesn't truly care about anyone but herself and treats everyone like shit. I don't think she's shallow like that, one way or another. I do think the way people despict her in fandom space often is though, but I'm not interested in that Yona at all. I love how she stays so true to her feelings no matter what, I love that selfishness of her in the good and bad. I don't agree and I don't like when she says Suwon is selfish in chapter 252, but I don't mind that she, Yona with her very unique and personal experience and story, thinks that. Akatsuki no Yona is about people's heart and feelings clashing with reason and objectivity, and through Yona it chooses to show us things we can only see from her side of things. Yona herself is struggling with that. She wants to help her people as Kouka's princess, but she feels conflicted between her duties as a princess and wanting to save her friends. It felt easy to resolve it by Suwon avoiding her the struggle longer and just letting her do what she wants, but I think it did it this way precisely because the manga doesn't want to preach about what would be "right" here. There is no answer. There are only people doing their best to tweak things to find compromises. Suwon gave her the opportunity to follow her heart because "objectively it's better if it's yona dealing with this", and Yona uses it fully. Yet she still intends to come back too. A compromise again.

So what always bothered me is not Yona herself but how everything surrounding her is framed. Likee the narrative makes a ton about her when I don't think it's needed at all and kinda goes against the point. That it sides with her is definitely intended and meaningful in its own right, but I thought it was doing it much better before and I prefered when it was humbler about her and I felt like it was siding with more POV and characters but her (and Hak). So...she's not that protagonist I identify myself much with anymore (and the story itself kinda makes yona and hak's development something that we can only be a witness of outside of their head now, rather than following all the thought processes that make them grow from inside and their POV) but no matter how you process your feelings for akatsuki no yona in the end, keep being disillusioned, it's good! Keep being disillusioned about her and akayona as a whole again and again, and be disillusioned of your previous disillusions because that's the way to see it truly for what it is the most. Nothing erase the way akayona and yona's character are flawed, so there is no need to erase what is definitely there and good about it. Take all the good and bad and how they coexist. I just find it painful to hate everything so much that it makes doubt everything and blind to what is simply there so I don't want it to happen to you :').

Akayona is a mess like that, it's terribly flawed but it's also good in so many aspects and that's what makes it so damn complicated and frustrating! But also extremely interesting, and I think it's possible to appreciate it this way. So best wishes to you Al!! I love your akatsuki no yona writings and I'll be sad to see you stop and fall into that painful spiral, but it's also fine to take distances or drop it completely depending on what feels the best for you. I'll always love to discuss about all of this with you if you want!!

Critique ahead, read at your own discretion.

Am I understanding this correctly? Because of Hiryuu’s selfish wish to have more time on Earth, Yona was created, thus their soul did not return to the heavens to be with the other dragon gods. As a consequence hundreds of humans were damned with the dragon powers and short lifespans. If Hiryuu had accepted his own death as a natural course of life as a human and went back to the heavens then all of this could’ve been avoided. But it seems both he and Yona have trouble reconciling with loss. They’d curse strangers if it meant having more time with their loved ones. How is this not viewed as corrupt? Their resolve is painted as this heartwarming thing - that they’d bend reality if it led to the safety of those they care about. But what about everyone else? The world isn’t comprised only of those dear to your heart. They say Hiryuu loved humans but the more I examine his actions it seems he simply wanted control over them.

I want to love this manga, I have loved this manga, for many years. It was amazing seeing Yona’s growth and getting to know all the characters. Soo-Won, Shin-Ah, Zeno, and (earlier chapters) Yona will always have a special place in my heart. But the way the themes are being developed leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Idk, if anyone has some positivity to share about how things are progressing please feel free to do so, because at this point I’m disillusioned with YOTD.

[boycarofchilladelphia]

One thing I love about severance is how strongly it advocates for the concept of "people are complicated". Our main protagonist's outies? They do really crappy things. Like, don't get me wrong, Mark Scout is framed with sympathy because of Gemma, but that doesn't really excuse him from being a douche to that anti-severance kid and, perhaps more importantly, to his date. Not to mention his kind of reactive indifference to possible trauma for his innie. And Helena's just trash.

Or at least they seem like they are, but then things change as we get more context; Mark takes in Petey on pretty much Petey's word alone, and even goes to his funeral to mourn a friend he never had. He also is so devoted to Gemma that he jumps on the experimental brain surgery train, and as he's having (very legitimate) doubts, he's all in when someone insults his dead-not-dead wife and brings him back to her.

And Helena; oh, Helena. Other people have said it better than I can, but this whole "I'm a product of the system, I benefit from the system, but it still harms me terribly" idea that's going on is brilliant. She hates her innie; she wants so badly to have what her innie has. She resorts to what she knows to get it: trickery. But then that fails and she's so desperate to get that back she tries to flirt with Mark at the restaurant, trying to leverage her power and family to impress him because that's what she knows to do. And she fails miserably. She's the worst person you know, and she uses the worst means to get it, but she's never fulfilled by it because she can't be.

And then we see the innies, and we love them. Mark S and Helly R are just new children learning about bad and good in the world, and once they recognize the bad that's being meted out to them, they are purely and rightfully enraged. But they keep getting manipulated by the metaphorical "adults" of the show because these adults know that humans are complicated and that they can exploit that (Dylan's whole visitation arc being an incredible example of this).

But also now in season 2 even the manipulators are getting backstory and sympathy; it's being shown how they are almost just as manipulated as the innies, just in more mature and frankly, worse ways. Milkshake (affectionate) was the smiling, manipulative face of Lumen's severance floor; he's being racially degraded and unfairly targeted by other Lumon employees. Ms. Huang is the new Milkshake; she's literally a child being exploited through an "internship", and she is also threatened to have the company leveraged against her by Milkshake. Harmony Cobel: like, her entire life is her and those around her being manipulated by Lumon?? Even Helena, the big bad of Lumon, who through no fault of her own lost control to her innie, and Lumon's response? Fetid moppet.

Basically I went into season two with this "don't trust anyone in Lumon, they're always going to be evil" mindset, and while that's a good guiding principle, the humanity of even the "evil" was thrown at me in ways I never expected. So in summary, every person is a by-product of their choices, their backgrounds, and their circumstances, and that's okay. And they may do bad things and they may do good things and they may do things for reasons that are way more complicated than just "I'm a good/bad person."

Except Burt and Gemma, they are my babygirls (extremely affectionate) and they must be protected at all cost because they're just too good.

Anyway, long rant, probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense Future thoughts I might muse on include:

-the only villains not given sympathetic backstories? Rich powerful men. And I think that's intentional and perfect.

-Ricken either needs to grow up or get lost.

-more answers deserve to get hit over the head with blunt objects; I hope this trend continues

[ginevrastilinski-ocs]

New OUAT Babies!

Special thank you to @randomestfandoms-ocs that let me rant about them and helped me with fcs as always lmao thank you dear (Sherlock & Watson have their plot bunny ask since you sent it lol)

Minerva Gold - Her parents made a pact with Rumpelstiltskin and gave her to him but he got attached and kept her. Henry's fave person, best friend and basically the knight of his story. Tbd if they will be a ship at the end, probably yes, but I'm still early on and they're too young for now lol FC: Millie Bobby Brown

Vincent Boccanera - Victor Van Dort in the Enchanted Forest. Was engaged with Victoria but had just met/married the Corpse Bride when the curse kicked in, now desn't remember neither. In Storybrooke is basically the secretary at the Sheriff Station. Colette and Em ship FC: Timothee Chalamet

Colette Evergreen - Victoria Everglot in the Enchanted Forest. Was engaged with Victor before the curse kicked in, now doesn't even remember him. In Storybrooke comes from a rich family obsessed with antiques and befriends Em. Vincent & Em ship FC: Anya Taylor-Joy

Emmeline "Em" Gold - Emily Burton aka the Corpse Bride in the Enchanted Forest. Lives with Mr. Gold as his protégé and works at his shop but keeps having nightmares about him killing her. Befriends Colette in Storybrooke. Vincent & Colette ship FC: Lily Rose Deep

Flam Liang Sohn - Ember Lumen in the Enchanted Forest. Fire Powers, her parents transfered from their village to a bigger city before she was born, started a little district where all the Fire people stay. Juliet wannabe for Cove's Romeo. In Storybrooke works in his father's shop. Cove ship FC: Arden Cho

Cole Newman - Wade Ripple in the Enchanted Forest. Water powers, Romeo and Juliet wannabe with Flam since everyone in their city thinks Fire and Water should not mix. In Storybrooke works as delivery for Granny's. Flam ship FC: Tyler Posey

[dreamyeyedrose]

I HAD ANOTHER SEVERANCE DREAM. WHAT THE FUCK I HAVEN'T EVEN WATCHED THE SHOW I JUST RECOGNIZE THE LUMEN WHATEVER OFFICE FROM GIFSETS I'VE SCROLLED PAST

in-dream I kept having my hand be touching Bad Textures, and they'd be bad enough that I'd wake up a bit, and then I'd be awake enough that I could be like ".....no I don't wanna wake back up just yet" and so I'd fall deeper asleep again but then my hand would end up touching Bad Textures in-dream again so I'd wake back up the same amount as before, decide once again that I don't want to wake up, fall back asleep, and repeat

this repeated three or four times before I finally woke up. I feel like I was waterboarded but using dream states

had a weird dream that feels related to the show severance even though I've never seen it (I keep seeing gifsets of it and my tumblr algorithm wants me to watch it so bad it makes it look stupid)

but idk there was something up with something and someone said that the solution was to go into a specific office and tell someone that I knew there was two copies of a specific other office or room that had a specific function but I was like "yeah uh I don't think that'll help, I don't know if I want that department/person/whatever to know how much I'm aware is wrong, I don't think that's the solution here" and then I woke up

[theradicalkanji]

Some more fun from the dnd campaign I'm in. We finally finished a major story arc and for this story arc we were allied with this dude who I Do Not Like. I'll just go ahead and give his name for ease of story telling.

Xander is an NPC in this campaign who is one of those former major villains turned unlikely ally. We're talking high tier admiral in the evil empire.

Well, my guy, Lumen, has been very vocal about not being ok with this guy being in the party. Xander was not only the admiral but I'm charge of "breaking" the empires prisoners and making them fit for slavery.

We finally finished this extended mission where we had to work with Xander and Xander has his big reveal where he discusses his motives for doing what he did, and he's like. If I couldn't stop the empire. The best I could do was protect the captives by making them subservient so they wouldn't have to be killed.

Rest of the party was like. Yeah. Ok. That makes sense.

Lumen didn't. He popped OFF.

like. I don't remember the full extent of the rant I went off on in the moment but Lumen as a character and me as a person is super anti slavery apologism in any form so I Laid Into Him. The gist of the rant was like:

"I wish I could hate you. It'd be so much easier to hate you, but I don't and that's pissing me off. I wish you were the irredeemable asshole I wanted you to be, but instead you're just a coward who was too chicken shit to do the right thing. And even worse, you're trying to lie to yourself to act like what you did was somehow the right thing to do!"

I had talked to the DM outside of sessions and even made frequent mentions to my anti slavery stance in and out of character so this scene wasn't a surprise to the DM, but the rest of the table was like.

It's extra great because Xander was completely cowed by my sparkbug. Now, Xander is a Leonin Conquest Paladin. He's an eight foot tall beefcake with the head of a lion. We're talking stacked floor to ceiling with solid muscle. And he was standing there with his head held low and his tail literally between his legs while getting screamed at by a six inch tall pixie.