#mileven isn't endgame

[ur-airheaded-lesbian]

Mike and Eleven are not in love, they love each other but they aren't IN love.

They met as children under extremely traumatic circumstances and formed a really special bond. Because that's the kind of bond that forms in children going through trauma together; it's strong and unique but not romantic.

Very early in their relationship, Mike felt this bond, didn't understand it, assumed it was romantic (because these kinds of special bonds arent talked about or depicted in media) and labeled his feelings for her as romantic. and all because he leeched onto her when he realized she was his only shot at finding Will.

You can tell, in the scene where they have their first kiss in season one. Mike is like the opposite of an overthinker, he never examines his own feelings or actions, he's very emotionally driven. So he starts speaking from the heart

"After all this is over, you can have your own room. And you won't have to eat junk anymore. And my mom will be like your mom and nancy will be like your sister."

and she goes "will you be like my brother?"

and he suddently realizes what he said doesnt match up with the label he's put on his feelings for her, so instead of re-examining that label, he just doubles down and starts going on a rant that doesn't make sense, and then to explain he just kind of kisses her.

And she's just going along with it like "okay i guess we're gonna express our relationship like this now, I don't know a lot about social stuff but I'm gonna go along with this because I assume you know what you're doing". Unfortunetely though, Mike is a dork and so neither of them know what they're doing.

And at first it's fine because they're young enough that romantic relationships and platonic relationships are almost indistinquishable. But literally as soon as they get into teenhood eveything falls apart and it's clear that their relationship doesn't work when it's expressed like this and they're both unhappy like this. it's so painful to watch.

i need them to break up, for my sake and for their own...

[love-byers]

he's in love your honor

[bangtanthoughts]

you know the ship is shit when the actors who play the shipped characters don't like it or used to but switched to a different ship

[i-dont-bite]

"you're basically saying disabled people can't be in relationships!! you're ableist!!!" no i'm not you dumb fuck i'm saying a girl who's been a LAB RAT and ISOLATED FROM SOCIETY since she was born until she was TWELVE shouldn't be thrown into a lifelong relationship with a kid she just met a WEEK after she escaped from the lab when she could BARELY SPEAK and didn't know what a the word "FRIEND" MEANT

[justablogger234]

just a not so friendly reminder.

Suddenly mike liking will and getting together with him in season 5 would seem really cheap. Like you guys want byler so bad that you want mike to leave el for will? If the duffers were to listen to the backlash and complaints and suddenly make it seem that mike is in love with will after declaring his love for El in the previous season. Like wouldn't that seem cheap and reek of fan service? Like it's pretty pathetic. You guys don't even want mike with will, you either just want will to be happy by any means necessary (even if it means the poor innocent girl who has suffered the whole season but is also ironically the main character suffers for it) or you just want el to suffer because you suck.

So which one is it? You want will to be happy or you want el to suffer, dont bother answering because both of these include hurting el and taking away her happiness. Don't tell me that you guys actually believe that mike likes will. Because there is nothing that could convince me that byler is real or that mike likes will.

[human-being-on-earth]

This kiss is so awkward wtf-

He isn't kissing back or even closing his eyes

And this is him AFTER the kiss ⬇️

He's confused. That is the face of pure gay confusion.

--------------------------------------

Now THIS is much better ⬇️

[voydhund]

Milesperhour shippers attacking the creators, Byler shippers and each other as they come to realize their ship isn't likely to be endgame like a bunch of rabid animals is so funny for no reason

[cleradinscloset]

im so convinced that midlevens hate byler because they're threatened by the fact that its actually possible

[mikesmelodrama]

this is the dumbest argument ever... shipping a lesbian with a man is obviously different than shipping a gay guy with his love interest 😭

[cuntyqueerleondraisaitl]

It is not surprise to anyone that follows me that I ship Byler

Now, the thing is, I do not hate Mileven. But I have been forced to block the tag because of all the fucking homophobia that is circulating in that part of the fandom

If you ship Mileven and simply do not think that they are good together, then this is not about you

But if it offends you, or you think it is controversial that there is a TON of toxicity in that part of the fandom, I beg you to do some more research or DNI

Some examples of what I'm talking about

People who say Will should get a girlfriend in season 5

People who refer to Mike as 'Elsexual'

People who say that Mike gets hate for being straight

The 'sloppy seconds' Mileven anon

People in general who hate Byler.

Because, and I will say it again I DO NOT HATE MILEVEN

I hate toxic shippers

NOW GOOD DAY

[lucystark12]

"will, i don't feel the same way, but i will always care about you no matter what" is playing of the screen of my rose gold macbook air on july 1st, 2025. i am flabbergasted. my jaw has hit the floor. everything i've worked so hard for has amounted to nothing. the countless hours we all spent on analyzation just for the most boring vanilla ship in the history of shipping to be canon. a tear falls from my left eye, only, it isn't a tear, it's a drop of blood! and it's coming from my nostril! suddenly, a loud grandfather clock's ring fills my house. i understand now! i pull out my phone and begin to play heroes by david bowie, snapping myself out of the vecna trance and back into reality where i have a new silver computer and mike is coming to terms with his feelings, because of course mileven would never be endgame, it was just vecna trying to use the overcoming feelings of rage i feel at bad writing to kill me ❤️

[teambyler]

Not shipping Mileven isn't about disbelieving Mike. It's about BELIEVING EL.

A lot of the discourse has been about whether Mike was honestly saying "I love you" to El during the pizza place confession. The focus inherently devalues El's own testimony, however.

In s4e3, El came to her own conclusion that Mike didn't feel about her the way she wanted and needed. And El was onto something.

After she was horribly bullied, Mike offered no comfort. No hug, no anger toward Angela, no expression of sympathy. Then he gave the comment "She didn't look fine" at the dinner table. El clocked MIke for not loving her the way she needed. She was correct in saying that he was freaked out. And Mike's response to her pointing out he didn't say "love" was to gaslight her:

"Who said that I didn't?"

"I say it."

"Eleven, you're being ridiculous."

As far as El was concerned, their relationship was over. She signed her final note "From El."

It's common in abusive and unhealthy relationships for a woman to decide to leave the man who's mistreating her. But then he buys gifts or makes a verbal confession (sound familiar?) that makes her forget his actions that caused her to want to leave. She sets aside what she knows to be true and returns to him, and the abusive cycle repeats.

Now, Mike is much more benign than the classical picture of an abuser. But he did gaslight her and make her doubt what she saw with her own eyes. And just because one doesn't fit the ideal picture of an abuser doesn't mean that some of the same dynamics can take place.

One doesn't need to paint Mike as a villain here to see that they're not on the same wavelength and have this unhealthy dynamic. I actually think that Mike didn't fully lie during the "love confession." But what he says isn't the most important testimony here.

We should give equal, if not greater value, to El's testimony. Not only to her testimony in s4e3, but also to her tepid interactions with Mike after he "confessed his love," the love confession that Milevens, according to their narrative, should have solved everything:

Most people have talked about how Mike will react to the Painting Lie. But what's actually more important to their relationship is how EL reacts to the Painting Lie. SHE will discover that Mike's confession was not only forced by circumstance, but also based on a lie. SHE will realize WITHOUT A DOUBT that her initial take that Mike doesn't love her romantically in s4e3 -- and her gut reaction to seeing Mike and Will sweeping in Hopper's cabin -- were correct. Mike's love confession was about Will, not her.

One doesn't need to disbelieve Mike to say that Mileven isn't endgame. One just needs to trust and believe El.

-teambyler

[pinksmonkey]

Posting my Ultimate Byler Evidence/Analysis List here directly because it probably makes it more convenient and I should have done this a while ago. XD

There is so much proof for Byler being endgame in S5 of Stranger Things. They are so cute together, and so much in the show has been building up to their relationship. I just wanted to share some of my favourite Byler analyses, because they are so cool, detailed, and in-depth. I love reading about all the hints, symbolism, and subtext for Byler, it's amazing how much thought must have been put into all these things. Why go through all the effort of adding these details if they aren't actually going anywhere with them? Mike is so queercoded, and they are truly in love with each other.

🫥 Just gonna leave some good Byler analyses here 🤐

Most of the links go to written Tumblr posts, and a couple of them are Reddit posts. So it's a lot of reading. If you prefer watching videos over reading, I highlighted my Byler YouTube playlist in green so it's easy to find.

And apologies for any of the links that aren't working, I know some of the posts have been deleted now sadly, but there's no way I'm re-numbering all these so I'm just leaving them in. My fellow Bylers, please stop deleting your amazing posts. ;-;

So anyway, here is the list of some of my favourite Byler evidence/analyses of all time (not in any particular order):

1. Mike's Season 4 Monologue To El

2. Camera Roll Byler Proof Part 3

3. Mike's Monologue and Milkvan

4. Mostly Byler Post Index

5. Dawson's Creek Parallel

6. "My Experience With Stranger Things"

7. What Ollie Learned From Film School

8. Byler Music Analysis

9. Why Don't The Duffers Discuss This?

10. ST Theories Masterpost

11. If Byler Isn't Endgame Then Someone Screwed Up

12. Byler Crumbs From The Cast and Crew

13. Favourite Combination of Endgame Byler Proof

14. I Doubt Byler Then I Remember This

15. The Fact That We Have This Interview

16. You Know Your Ship is Endgame When

17. Mostly Byler Post Index 2

18. Losing Hope Of Byler Endgame?

19. Why I Think Byler is Endgame

20. So Many Thoughts on This

21. Mike's Wall Art

22. Painting Miscommunication Leading to Mike's Monologue Coded

23. Yes, That Scene Did Foreshadow Mike's Monologue as Disingenuous

24. Mike's Monologue Didn't Sit Right With Me

25. Blue And Yellow Pen

26. That Tweet Is So Sweet

27. Heart Eyes, Literally

28. "My Process of Realizing Byler is Real"

29. Looking at Will, Not El

30. High School Musical Parallel

31. Said It Before and I'll Say It Again

32. Delusional Milkdud?

33. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 1

34. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 2

35. For When You Are Doubting Byler

36. Is Mike Bi or Gay?

37. Fully Convinced

38. The Ultimate Byler Playlist (my Byler YouTube playlist)

39. 100% Confident

40. Mike in S4 and S2

41. Mike Is Angry With Himself

42. It's Been A Year, Mike

43. Rink-O-Mania Remodel

44. The Development Of Will And Mike's Relationship

45. Mike's Lies

46. El Was Holding So Much In

47. Flickergate + Lettergate

48. Did Mike Ever Like El Romantically?

49. Mike Is Stupid

50. Byler Won't Write Itself

51. What's The Alternative Explanation?

52. Comparing Mileven and Byler

53. It Was Always About Them

54. Mike Is Not Ok

55. He Has A Love Interest

56. Will's Happy Ending

57. Trying To Be Normal

58. It's Not That Milevens Are Homophobic

59. Byler Is Reality

60. A Proper Look At El's Shrine To Mike

61. Mileven Through The Seasons

62. Suspicious

63. I Can't Doubt Byler

64. D&D Soulmates

65. Let's Talk Phones

66. Not Delusional

67. What Do They Want?

68. The Main Character

69. Mike's Mental Health

70. So Close

71. This Look Confirms Byler Isn't One Sided

72. Mileven Is Bones

73. They Don't Care About Mileven?

74. The Airport Hug Will Always Be Famous

75. The Monologue Mystery, Why Did They Lose?

76. The Cabin Scene

77. Why Couldn't Mike Say It For 2 Seasons?

78. He Was Trying To Find Will

79. Mike The Surfer Boy

80. Mike Definitely Shows Attraction To Girls

81. The Cast Knows

82. Mileven Loses On All Fronts

83. The Bouquet

84. 53 Minutes And 5 Seconds

85. Pink Panther

86. El And Choice

87. Will's Spotify Playlist

88. He'll Come Crawling Back To You, Begging For Forgiveness

89. Mike's Character Arc Prediction

90. It's The Same Look

91. Will's Truly Happy Ending

92. That's The Same Look, Right?

93. You're The Heart

94. Mike And El's Relationship In S4 Was Really Weird

95. Fireworks Parallel

96. Mileven Has Been Built Up For 4 Seasons

97. Not Stupid: The Fate of Mileven and Byler

98. This Suddenly Makes So Much Sense

99. Metaphors In Filmmaking

And unfortunately Tumblr will only let me add 100 links per post, so when I've posted part 2 of this list, I'll link it here: Part 2

[talesofliia]

If Byler isn't endgame, then why…

1. Why do they consistently emphasize the unique nature of Will and Mike's friendship within the party? Why highlight their deep bond and illustrate their special connection?

2. Why does Mike gaze at Will with expressions of fondness, affection, admiration, and longing? Not to mention the times he seemingly focuses on Will's lips…

3. Why do they exhibit strange behavior around each other in s4? If they're merely friends, why the nervousness and awkwardness? Their dynamic sharply contrasts with the rest of the party.

4. Why does Mike feel compelled to insist that "they're just friends" to Will if it's an obvious fact? Could it be that Mike senses something more in their relationship?

5. Why are some of their scenes so romantically coded? If you consider it typical best-friend behavior, try swapping Mike with, say, Dustin or Lucas. Byler's scenes, particularly in seasons 2 & 4, are remarkably moving and heart-felt.

6. Why do they share intimate moments they wouldn't with other friends? And say things that sound rather romantic, like "Crazy together," "Hawkins hasn't been the same without you," "I felt like I lost you," "You're the heart"…

7. Why are some of their scenes so intimate that when interrupted by other characters, Will and Mike look as if they were caught doing something "inappropriate"?

8. Why do many of their scenes include "tender, emotional music playing," reminiscent of scenes with other ST couples?

9. Why are Will and Mike consistently paired up and paralleled with other canon couples? And sometimes with gay characters from other films/shows? I recommend checking out this thread as well.

10. Why do Netflix and the ST cast & crew talk about Byler so extensively? Here's a great thread with all their mentions.

11. Why are there numerous queer references surrounding Mike and his relationship with Will? If unclear, you can check out this channel.

12. Why does it seem like Mike and El's romantic relationship is reaching its logical end? If they were intended to be endgame, why did Mike struggle to say he loved her until he felt forced to? And why didn't we get a passionate Mileven scene after his "love confession"?

13. Why was Will present in almost all Mileven scenes in s4? And why was he the one attempting to piece together the broken elements of Mike and El's relationship?

14. Why make Will fall in love with Mike (canonically!) and illustrate the depth of his love for Mike, only to reveal that Will's feelings are unrequited? This character has already endured so much. In the context of a fictional story, it makes sense for such a good character to have a well-deserved happy ending (including being with Mike).

15. And finally: why invest so much in the beginning, highlighting the unique bond between Will and Mike, creating tension with romantic undertones, only to leave it unresolved and without the exploration it seemed to promise?

I want to clarify that I'm not claiming Byler is a definite endgame. I'm fully aware of the unpredictability of ST. However, it seems like a narrative gap if Will and Mike's relationship doesn't find its logical conclusion, which, in my view, is them being romantically together.

[i-dont-bite]

"el and mike i feel continue to mature and grow with each other"

[soliss-occasus]

I've said this before but it appears I'll have to say it again.

STOP POSTING BYLER ON THE MILEVEN TAG.

I ship byler to bits, but this fandom is horrible.

It doesn't matter what you ship, or what you think will be endgame. Everyone should have their own space for shipping. There is, however, not a single mileven post on the mileven tag. It is seriously all byler.

It wasn't fun when they did it to us when mileven was the popular ship, and it isn't fun now that it's the other way around.