#nashuri meta

[fairyringsandwings]

Namor Wanted To Marry Shuri - Theory/Meta

Evidence:

Ramonda Vs Shuri Interactions

The Talokanil Breathing Apparatus

The Line 'Nothing.'

Non-Political Motivations

Evidence 1 - Ramonda vs Shuri Interactions

The way that Namor interacts with both of these characters is very revealing. In order to acquire an alliance, Namor should be trying to foster a good relationship with the reigning monarch, which was Queen Ramonda. But this isn't what Namor does. Instead, he is disrespectful to Ramonda, but goes above and beyond to impress and convince Shuri.

Ramonda

When Namor arrives in Wakanda to confront Ramonda and Shuri, he completely ignores Ramonda's first demand for answers about who he is and how he got into Wakanda. He got past their shields, their greatest defence. He has appeared at times of heightened international conflict. And he was wearing vibranium, a material that only Wakanda was meant to have. This is a man who has sunk ships and killed people for getting close to his Kingdom, he knows how alarming and stressful his presence there is and the onslaught of worries and questions that will be racing through Ramonda's mind.

Yet he acts nonchalant, too busy complimenting Wakanda rather than calming the understandably distressed Queen. Why ignore and disrespect the woman he should be trying to befriend? Arrogance? Foolishness? Or had he already come to the conclusion that Ramonda would never agree to an alliance with him, so didn't bother wasting time with niceties to her?

Side Note: I am convinced Namor has a sophisticated spy network and that's how he was able to decide who he wanted an alliance with. In the original script, it's mentioned that The Talokanil are tapping into fibre optic wires and that that's how they're getting information about the surface world. It's probably one of the ways he learns about Wakanda, as I think he would do a lot of research on the country and its rulers before seeking an alliance.

Shuri

Shuri on the other hand, Namor treats with nothing but respect. When she asks for an audience with him, he grants her it rather than simply keeping her as a political hostage in a dungeon. He gifts her a beautiful dress covered in jade which is a valuable resource to his people. He could have left her in her normal clothes or even put her in worse as a means of a power play to make her feel less confident, but instead, he allowed her to meet him dressed as royalty. That shows he respects her and her position.

Namor then explains to her Talokan's origin and his past. He takes her to his Kingdom, allowing Shuri to be the first surface dweller to ever see it. He does all this to help Shuri understand 'what he has to protect'. This was a very risky move as someone as intelligent as Shuri would have the opportunity to learn about his people and discover potential weaknesses that could be used against them. Considering he's planning on going to war with the surface, that is not information he wants getting out. Yet he takes that risk to try and convince Shuri and make her see his reasoning. He respects her enough to try and convince her and he even listens to her opinion even if he isn't persuaded by her.

He then gifts Shuri his mother's bracelet. His mother Fen who has long since passed away and what few possessions he has of her are all that he has left to remember her by. This is a royal heirloom. A piece of his family. This is not something given away to just anyone.

Namor treats Shuri and Ramonda differently. He is respectful, playful, comforts Shuri over her grief with her brother's death and explains the situation of his Kingdom in depth, none of which he does for Ramonda.

Why does he do this? Because Shuri is the Crown Princess of Wakanda, the Heir to the throne, and someone he thinks is more likely to join him or 'burn the world' with. One day, she'll be Queen. If he can convince her to marry him, then not only does he have some sway over Wakanda but if they were to have children, that influence will carry out across the centuries. He would be securing a very powerful ally for a very long time.

Evidence 2 - Talokanil Breathing Apparatus

I think Namor always intended to capture Shuri so that he could try and convince her to join him. The Talokanil wear breathing apparatuses that allow them to breathe on land, BUT, they also allow people to breathe underwater.

Now why would they have technology like that? They're planning on going to war with the surface world. Surface world underwater technology is not the greatest, so if they were to get their hands on these masks, it would be very useful in battle and thus is not something the Talokanil want falling into enemy hands.

Why do they have them then? The only reason could be that they were planning on taking a hostage. It could have been Riri, but if they only wanted Riri why were there multiple breathing apparatuses that could work on land and sea? They were planning on taking more than one person.

Shuri.

Evidence 3 - Nothing

The line 'Nothing' is spoken when Namor and Ramonda meet on the beach to discuss Shuri. If Namor wanted an only alliance and not one specifically with Shuri, then this was his opportunity to demand it.

He has The Crown Princess, Heir to the Wakandan throne, the Head of The Wakandan Design Group and the world's most intelligent person, within his grasp. She'll have useful intel on Wakanda, intel they don't want anyone getting a hold of. Shuri is one of the most valuable hostages that Namor could ever ask for and the key to getting his alliance. Ramonda offered him anything for her daughter's return. And instead of asking for an alliance, he says he wants nothing.

At this point, he has no plans of making an alliance with Wakanda through Ramonda. He only wants one if it's through Shuri. Why else would he be keeping her in Talokan? It serves no other purpose.

Evidence 4 - BPWF Photo Caption

In BPWF Movie Special Book, in the caption of the top image, it says this, "Seeking Kinship and support, Namor gifts his mother's bracelet."

KInship shows that Namor wanted to form a close bond with Shuri. One way he could acquire this is through marriage. uniting their Kingdoms, becoming one people, one family creating a kinship. It would secure his nation a powerful ally for centuries if they have children.

This also shows it's not Namor being manipulative as some people like to say. He was genuine in his attempts to bring Shuri to his side. He wanted kinship and support. A true ally. Someone who would have his back as he would have theirs.

Evidence 5 - Not All Political

Namor's pursuit of Shuri is not all political. He has been described in various media as being 'Charmed' and 'Smitten' by Shuri. In the script, he's constantly smiling at her, especially in the original.

He seems to be a man of his word, yet can't follow through when it comes to Shuri. He promised Ramonda he would come to Wakanda and kill her if she betrayed him, which she did and he stayed true to his word. He also promised to kill the Princess but when he had the opportunity - TWICE - he didn't do it. He could have killed her on the aircraft before she took the herb, but he didn't. He could have speared her in a way that would instantly kill her in their final battle, but he didn't. He even tells her 'it could have been different.' Why say that unless he genuinely wanted it to be different.

In Conclusion

[thislilstangirl]

the rage of princess shuri

very few character arcs have been as substantive and transformative as the arc given to shuri in wakanda forever. and what makes it so powerful is her undeniable rage.

shuri angry. at herself, at the ancestors, at the world. and there’s so much range in her anger. it’s cold and dismissive to her mother’s faith in the spiritual. it’s painful and untethering to herself and her beliefs. it’s hot and all consuming towards namor and the harm he causes.

and then with how mythical and fairytale-esque wakanda forever is in general. shuri plays with the princess archetype and instead almost becomes a vengeful goddess. eternal war was one death away. it just happens that the person she longed to kill was her mirror image.

a black heroine having the space to transform, rebirth by fire and fury, was an experience. i don’t really know how to put it into words.

“Is my mother’s life not worth eternal war?”

that might be one of the most heartbreaking, and relatable lines in the mcu. grief and anger crystallised into one question.

[love-too-believe]

Why Namor x Shuri makes sense in terms of story structure

So if we go off context, Nashuri was already planned by the writers, as seen in interviews and the og script. Which isn't surprising because viewers picked up on their chemistry and romantic undertones in the movie already. The only reason this was changed is because they wanted to focus on the theme of grief and dealing with loss. Which has been the main theme for phase 4 in general since we're moving on to new heroes.

Also not sure if people are aware of this but the choice to kill Ramonda was more or less a last minute decision by Ryan. Angela only agreed to it after Ryan brought up how often it is for characters to come back.

So this could mean Ramonda's coming back to life or will continue to make appearances. If she does come back to life this more or less weakens the "but he killed her mom!" Argument.

Now let's talk about Shuri's story and Namor's role in it. Because at the end of the day this is Shuri's story.

Shuri's story in WF is her journey from childhood to adulthood. Tenoch has said this is his favorite thing about her story.

In the beginning she is a girl by the end she is a woman.

The particular kind of story structure Ryan used is called "The Heroine's Journey" a popular method to use in storytelling with female leads.

You'll find similar stories following this method in movies like "Star Wars, Labyrinth, The Hunger Games, The Wizard of Oz etc."

"The Heroine's Journey" is a female version of "The Hero's Journey" which is used for male leads. T'Challa actually goes through his hero's journey during "Civil War" and "BP" so im not suprised Ryan used the female version for his sister.

If you look at the structure of the heroine's journey Shuri pretty much hits all of these.

Distancing herself from her mother, venturing out of Wakanda (both in America and in Talokan) aka leaving the nest, and having her time to shine.

Both the hero and heroine's journies are a method to mature your lead in a way that makes sense and is relatable since hey, we all gotta grow up some times.

Also a subtle thing Ryan incorporated was how both Ramonda and Okoye treat Shuri like she's a child while Namor treats her like an adult, because she is.

Now something that is not always included but is common in both, is the hero or heroine's being presented with sexual incitement, at times for the first time. This signifies them coming into sexual maturity which is why you won't see it in every story or may just get subtle hits of it.

Now if it wasn't obvious Namor is ment to be Shuri's expirence with sexual enticement. Possibly her first encounter since we don't know her history.

And this isn't a "maybe" situation he literally just is. Firstly, this role usually is presented when the hero leaves the nest, not to mention Namor takes up every single trope of this role.

-Invades the hero's space (hut scene)

-whispers to them (again hut scene)

-touches or caresses them (First holding her hand then putting his mother's bracelet on her)

-shows them something new and exciting (Talokan)

-Is usually older then the hero (20s vs 500)

-Often times wears clothing that is either tight fitted or very little clothing (bro is literally walking around in nothing but jewelry and booty shorts)

Secondly, sometimes you'll straight up get subtle hints and/or introductions of sex it's self.

-In Star Wars there's a scene where Leia has to sit on Han's lap and the ship starts bouncing up and down...

-Again, in Star Wars Kylo Ren wipes his mouth which we see has water on it after meeting with Rey through the force...

-With Shuri in Namor, their fight has a weird amount of grappling and holding, not to mention the back scratching...

Namor treats and speaks to Shuri like she's a grown woman. He doesn't handle her with kid gloves like everyone else, he respects her as an adult who can make her own decisions.

In a dark sense even when it comes to either raging war after Ramonda's death or the alliance. He leaves it up to her to decide.

Also Riri, just isn't this to Shuri. This is not to say people can't ship it cause you can ship whatever you want, their all fictional. But Shuri refers to Riri as "a kid", "a child" or "a girl" depending on what translations you watch. This is to show the audience that Shuri does not view Riri as an adult. They're confirmed to have a sisterly bond. Shuri lost a sibling and gained a sibling.

But back to Namor, he also is noticeably kinder to her then he is to literally anyone else in the movie besides his people. Not to mention it's canon that he finds her charming and interesting. He also likes her smile.

It's confirmed by Ryan that he never wanted to kill her even during their fight which some fans noticed, he never tries to kill her even when he has an obvious chance.

And lastly, he sees Shuri as an equal by the end of the movie, showing he has respect for her as a protector of her nation and possibly even views her as a god now but we have to wait and see on that one.

As quoted by Ryan, Namor is ment to be a Peter Pan archetype and when you think about it he really is. He's black and white way of thinking is very childish, he's incredible stubborn, he's arrogant and cocky, yet at the same time, curious and charming. Like Peter he's a father to his people (he literally refers to them as his children) and their sole protector.

There's innocence to his character that's very compelling and shows how young he is in mind.

-he collects (maybe steals, very Killmonger of him) Mayan artifacts from the surface since he never got to see Ancient Maya.

-speaking of collecting things, he even collects random surface world stuff. He has 2 gramophones in his hut, which he most likely got from a ship back in the day.

-he's suprised and charmed by Shuri's kindness. Which makes session since she's the first surface person he's ever spent time with.

-and hey, he got his love of drawing from his mama.

Now what does all this mean for Namor and Shuri in the future? Well for one you got a good amount of back up for them no longer being enemies.

1. Shuri's heroine's journey is over now.

2. Namor was the one who forced her into womanhood.

3. We concluded the story at her finalizing her grief

4. It's canon that Namor was humbled by Shuri after their fight.

5. Wakanda and Talokan will be working with each other.

6. Namor may play a mentor like role with Shuri

7. Dispite many romance scenes being removed they still chose to keep enough hints for people to pick up on.

8. Their fight is described as "intimate" by both writers.

9. Namor and Shuri are described as "two sides of the same coin" and "twin flames" (these are the same descriptions that were used for Rey and Ben Solo in Star Wars)

Why does them having a possible relationship make sense? Well the most basic answer? They're the only two people that can understand what the other is going through.

Their both protectors of great nations that are centered around a resource unique to their land and have a culture and ancestry untouched by colonization. They both know grief of losing people they love. (Namor's mother and his two handmaids, Shuri's brother and mother) Their both EXTREMELY intelligent. (Namor build a vibranium sun underwater and I don't remember where I read it but he learned English in a week.) They both find each other interesting. They both see each other as equals. They both have alot of growing to do.

So will they have some kind of relationship? Most likely. Will it be romantic or platonic? Who knows. But we know they won't be enemies so we have to wait and see.

[elsakey]

Hello, you asked me about my thoughts on the wardrobe choices in Wakanda Forever but it's too long to put where you asked the question so I thought I'd just put in in an ask.

When Ramonda and Shuri are at the river where they first meet Namor Shuri's clothes are yellow and teal. I thought those interesting colours at first because she's never worn them before - then I realised they are the colour of his gold and jade he wears. So that wardrobe choice implies they're in sync with each others' sentiments.

There's the bridal dress (obviously). I honestly thought when he offered her clothes it would be like the ones we'd seen on the people of Talocan or Namora. So this pale dress covered in jade took me out. By the time the bracelet turned up I was legit worried that Shuri was accepting a marriage proposal in ignorance.

There's also the second wardrobe change Shuri has in the cave when she and Namor are just talking - which is also yellow and teal again (contrast this with Riri's which is a similar style but plain blue) showing she and Namor are still in sync - until she escapes.

Then there's Ramonda's dress on the beach where she meets Namor. Correct me if I'm wrong but l don't think we've ever seen décolletage on Ramonda in any dress, even during the first film. Most interesting is the metal detailing accenting around and drawing the eye to it. It seemed by implication that Ramonda was trying to distract Namor from Shuri, meaning that part of her anxiety for her kidnapped daughter was sexual. Worse Namor gives her that horrible smile and says Shuri's staying put - it wouldn't put me at ease nevermind that he follows it woth threats.

I think Ramonda knew what was up and it was a hell no from her - so I always side-eye that Namor didn't try to work with her or even one allay her fears (which seemed counter to his claim of wanting an alliance). Which makes me think the alliance he actually wanted was one with Shuri only - and none of his actions have convinced me he wasn't (and still isn't thinking political marriage).

OH WOW 🤯 THIS IS AMAZING

I'm really intrigued by what you say about Ramonda's style of dress when she asked Namor about her daughter...you're right, I never saw her dressed like that before in any of the movies. The idea that she was trying subconsciously to "distract" Namor from being interested in her daughter has my jaw dropping to the floor!

And I'm also still not over Namor not trying to bargain with Ramonda for an alliance with Wakanda or even doing better to ease her fears about Shuri's safety. What was he thinking? I'm with you- was a political marriage what he was subtly aiming for???

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, this is awesome!

[narkik]

not super into writing meta & im sure people have touched on it before but i love love LOVEEE girlhood to womanhood stories / gothics and the shuri/namor (nashuri) story in black panther: wakanda forever hits on so many of the bullet points. the death of the last man in shuri’s family (symbolically the last man protecting her innocence) immediately opens the door for an older, striking male figure who walks around half-naked to her life. he is both antagonistic and alluring, which to me reads very like “the new dangerous temptations of adult womanhood” and validates a desire she associates with shame. he abducts her (insert hades persephone analogy here) but he also “shows her a new world she has never seen before” which like… is that a sex analogy? it definitely can be!!! and he is literally WET, his moniker is the feathered sea serpent (snake! dick analogy!!) he is the instigator of (SPOILERS) her mother’s death, shuri’s final transition to adulthood, which very conveniently puts them at an equal level (he is king! she is now queen!). and don’t get me started on how he penetrated her 😭 and how she burned him (literally but also… figuratively!) maybe that newsweek interview confirming they had initially shot some romantic scenes is driving me crazy but anyways bp2 is such a girlhood gothic in a marvel film i love it so bad

[talkingparrotkee]

I should’ve known that you were a nashuri shipper. Why do you people insist on shipping a young woman with the man that took away her mother. One of her last blood-related family members.

I don’t ship Shuri with anyone, but I truly hope she gets a love interest in the future. So you nasty people can go away.

Like Shuri is more than Namor.

Interesting 😭. My posts so far are furthermore about the characters and explanation of dynamics. What tells you that you "should've known" I was a nashuri shipper. The fact that I don't villify Namor? The fact that I don't want Shuri to become a murderer by killing him, thus sending herself, Talokan, and Wakanda down a destructive path? The fact that I fairly characterize and understand both characters, as Ryan Coogler intended it do be? The fact that I can objectively point out why someone may ship a particular Shuri ship (which is not limited to Namor x Shuri)? 🫨

I don't "insist" on shipping Namor with Shuri, let alone for that reason. If you want to know why some may ship it, if you're intelligent enough to read for comprehension, your question is answered here. In the beginning alone, you have several healthy and normal reasons as to why one may like the ship.

I didn't ask what you ship (interesting you had to preface that you didn't ship her, I wonder why), and you must be a fool if you think Shuri having a love interest will stop any sort of Shuri shipper. Have you ever been in a fandom before?

The funniest part about this is that I do like Shuri more than Namor. That's why I wrote an entire meta on her and how she is as a character. That's why I have a wall of merchandise of her and not a single Namor (yet). That's why she's my favorite character. That is why I defend her tooth and nail. That's why I spend my own money on official books just to get a taste of information regarding her. As a black woman, I especially hold a special place in my heart for her. I love her before I love potential dynamics with Namor or anyone else. I am happy if Namor and Shuri just get decent interaction as only allies. It's possible!

I'm sorry you don't have the mental capacity to understand that, and you'd rather attack people as passionate as you over shipping. I am also sorry that you are illiterate because not a single thing I said implied that Shuri isn't more than Namor. Fans like you are miserable and pathetic. An insane tumor to fandom. 🤯

Kindly, my asks are for other fans to ask me about the characters or what I think on certain topics. Not unhinged anon hate by rabid nobodies and so-called toxic Shuri stans who attempt to gatekeep a character they just grew attached to (and probably know little about outside the Marvel Cinematic Universe), performing childish theatrics over shipping. I don't go here, or will I start to. I'm not the one or the two. Take your ass somewhere else and reflect on yourself that you actually got mad enough at nothing (because there isn't really nashuri on my page) enough to switch on anon mode to send me hate. 😂

It really doesn't accomplish anything. It just makes me want to do what I do even more. I don't care if a faceless coward laughably thinks I'm a "disgusting fool" over a relatively vanilla ship (people behind the scenes themselves joked about it. Writers considered or thought that it was not a bad match even after the fact) that's only a "problem" due to special circumstances. You can just pick up a pen to reverse or address it (that's what fanon is for.) It makes me want to post nashuri meta and use the tags more to spite you (which I wasn't thinking to do), so congratulations if that was your goal?

Let this be a message to you (who I think I know 😉) and others like you. I'm still going to love what I love, and that includes Princess Shuri. Sorry that you don't co-sign on how I love her. 🤷‍♀️

[thislilstangirl]

the courtship of princess shuri

should we talk about the courtship of shuri?

let’s be real, namor is gambling a lot on shuri accepting any type of proposal. he’s showing her his home, he’s being vulnerable about his trauma, and he is risking the wrath of wakanda with holding her ‘hostage ’.

so why shuri? i got three reasons- the mythical, the political, and the romantic.

firstly, it’s because she’s his mirror image. not to bang on the same drum but wakanda forever is extremely mythic. i’m comfortable in believing some soulmatism is at play here. despite never meeting her before, he recognises something that is within himself. and he is drawn to it. like two halves of the same soul trying to stitch itself together again. despite being princess and god king, they are mythic equals. they burn with the same fire.

secondly, she’s the princess of wakanda. if there was anyone who would be the best person to strategically seduce it would be her. why? because he overhead both the queen and princess on the beach. while the queen was reaching for peace, the princess was reaching for anger. he knew which one to charm. winning over the heir to the throne would a massive win for his kingdom’s strategic interests. a defence alliance would be inevitable and he would have achieved protection for his people. it’s straightforward politicking. and this hope of an alliance drives him through the entire movie. he’s blinded by it.

thirdly, he’s intrigued by shuri. i have no doubt that he knew of shuri before they met on the beach. it’s not the biggest reach that he would be aware of the princess who’s a scientific genius, scoffs at tradition but is also ready to go into battle to protect her people. i think this reason is solidified during her visit talokan. her compassion, empathy and sense of justice, even in the midst of her grief, threatens to bend him slightly. you see him pause and bargain with her. the more he’s around her, the more he wants her to stick around.

i think all three reasons are correct. it’s a mixture of hope for an alliance, meeting a mythic equal, and shuri’s attractive characteristics which makes namor pursue her and this ‘courtship’.

and how did her court her? well:

he gives her a beautiful talokanil gown that is dripping is jade (one of the most valuable stones and has many connotations with love). it was specifically made for her. his symbol is also embroidered in it. he is also dressed to the nines, regal- he wanted to dress up for her. which makes sense. he wants to impress her.

he gifts her a valuable family heirloom. the bracelet is gorgeous, but also was the symbolic promised made to his mother that namor would be king. he’s openly trusting her with an object that holds so much history and it’s a gift of gratitude. what is he thanking her for? her openness, understanding, empathy? she has obviously left a stunning impression on the god king.

he tells her the story of talokan. knowledge is power and it’s a scene of both trust and vulnerability that he lets her know the history of his people. and he emphasises the why over the how. he needs her to understand why the protection of his people are so important to him.

he makes her one of the only people from the surface to see talokan. it isn’t clear whether he planned this from the start or if shuri’s eagerness made him throw caution to wind. again he remarks how he was blinded by hope, so maybe the latter. he is also very proud to show off the sun he gave to his people. a scientific genius seeing an underwater sun that he built?! yeah, he knows what he’s doing

maybe most importantly, he listens and offers her understanding when she is opening up about her pain. he talks about his fears and vulnerabilities too. as a god, he is constantly grieving the lives of tolakanil who age normally. he is unable to answer her questions, but gives advice from his ancestors and alludes to the fact she could still be a great leader, even if she feels broken.

and let it be known that namor was written to be seductive. ryan coogler says as much. coogler also lists the key principles that they couldn’t change about namor, a few of these things being his charisma, confidence and hitting on other people’s wives. simply, namor was written to have that seductive swagger and charm that could win over people.

and it was working. at the end of their little moment, shuri has a greater understanding and respect towards namor and talokan. she accepts him putting the bracelet on around her wrist when she could have easily refused. she truly admires what namor has done for his people. this is the guy who threatened wakanda with an army the first time he met the queen and wants to kill riri williams. and shuri let her guard down and allowed him to charm her. but not to the point of throwing away her own sense of justice. something namor tries to bargain with but has no such luck.

but even after shuri is ‘rescued’ it’s still so telling that shuri keeps wearing the bracelet until someone brings attention to it. namor is literally caressing the shell he gave to wakanda after shuri leaves. he teases and calls her princess in the midst of battle. whatever they had didn’t just die when she left talokan. only there’s no time to dwell on it when war comes knocking.

it could have been different namor remarks after everything. after attacking wakanda, killing her mother and finally stabbing shuri onto a rock. it’s interesting that’s what his mind goes to. their unofficial ‘courtship’. and he doesn’t seem victorious in that moment. just deeply disappointed. the hope he had cruelly taken away from him.

shuri revives that hope. with a spear at his throat, she is reminded of her time in talokan, of namor’s smile, at his love for his people. she draws parallels and sees herself in him. it’s what brings back her from the brink of eternal war. and she offers an alliance on her terms.

so the question is, was the courtship a success?

namor seems to think so. or at least he knows this isn’t the end. he believes princess shuri will inevitably be back for his help soon enough once the world turns on wakanda. and then the control would be back in his court. i can’t help but think he has other reasons besides politics as to why he wants shuri to turn to him. the lonely god craves an equal. but these reasons might get him into trouble with namora.

it is clear that the ‘courtship’ of princess shuri was not a failure, but warm up for next game between panther and feathered serpent which namor is eagerly awaiting. i don’t believe shuri could be so easily charmed this time round, but i’ll never underestimate a relentless god who has found his mythical equal.

[thislilstangirl]

Penny for your thoughts on the Hades/Persephone symbolism re: Namor x Shuri? 😃

well, the three main elements of the hades and persephone myth are: the abduction, the mother’s search, and the inevitable return. and we see close to all three in wakanda forever.

the abduction of shuri:

though in the film shuri “willingly” goes to see namor, the reaction of everyone in wakanda is to see it as an abduction. okoye sees the talokanil leave with the unconscious princess. queen ramonda declares her daughter ‘lost’. nakia is sent to rescue her. shuri has a descent to the underworld underwater kingdom of talokan after picking up a flower riri williams.

the queen mother’s search:

the mother/daughter relationship is central to the persephone myth, and it’s central in this story too. queen ramonda is relentless with finding shuri, serving as a demeter figure of course. while demeter has the torch, ramonda has the shell.

the contrast between the dark, cool underwater scenes between shuri and namor and the warm, summery feel of queen ramonda on the beach with namor makes me think of the seasonal cycle the persephone myth symblolises as well. and of course, like demeter, her search is fruitless- there’s ‘nothing’ that can be given in exchange for the princess’ safe return.

ultimately it is up to nakia to ‘rescue’ shuri and riri. and funnily enough nakia shares similarity to hermes, the god who helps and finds persephone in the underworld. her (familial) love for shuri makes her to come back to the wakanda fold and find shuri. she is a very knowledgeable, from languages and culture to countries due to her spy background.

the inevitable return:

in the myth hades tricks persephone into eating the pomegranate seeds, she not knowing that eating anything from the underworld will mean she is eternally bound there. interesting that food is offered to riri but we don’t see her consume anything.

while namor doesn’t trick shuri into eating anything, i wonder if he knew that gifting her his mother’s bracelet would one day help create the synthetic heart shaped herb? like playing the long game. by the time he ties the bracelet around her wrist, he is already wanting her as his queen by his side as they burn the world together.

shuri consumes the herb and so BAM she is eternally bound to talokan. mythically anyway. the alliance that namor proposed to her in the middle of the film is accepted by the end. they have an alliance, a union. an eternal union to stop an eternal war?

namor is counting on shuri coming back to him. and he’s sure of himself because he understands her and the predicament wakanda faces. just like how hades is certain persephone will come back to him every six months to the underworld.

anyway these are just some quick thoughts off the top of my head x the persephone and hades myth is primarily about death and rebirth though. and boi, wakanda forever is full of death/rebirth imagery.

[thislilstangirl]

namor, the lonely god

the thing that you need to understand with namor is that he is constantly grieving.

as a ‘god’ he is forced to see his people be born, grow up, and die every day for five hundred years. and he hasn’t become jaded to this fact of life. the talokanil that die in the midst of shuri’s rescue are mourned by namor and the trigger for namor’s destructive retaliation. their deaths are just as important to him, as queen ramonda’s death to shuri.

but namor isn’t just grieving. he’s lonely. his distrust of the surface world, and his superior status amongst his people puts him in an isolating position. to his people, he’s the god that brought the sun to the ocean, has protect them against external threats for centuries, and promises to win an inevitable war against the entire surface world. but namor views himself as “broken”. he’s happy to go to war, but wants an ally. he’s proud of the might of talokan but still resents the fact that they are hiding. after five hundred years he is tired.

is it any wonder namor is so earnest in his want of an ally?

and he believes shuri to be that ally. the alliance and union he seeks can only be through shuri because, for all intents and purposes, she’s his mirror image. she’s the only one he can think to trust. the tragedy of shuri’s rescue is that trust between the two is shattered, even though shuri personally did nothing to break it. and it leaves namor with nowhere to turn but to himself and into his own darkness. his fears and resentment only amplified by her apparent betrayal.

“I was blinded by hope.”

what a telling line of dialogue. you mean to tell me the grieving princess of wakanda, with fury in her heart, made the lonely god king of five hundred years vulnerable, trusting, and hopeful? but not just hopeful, blinded by hope. that’s some fairytale sh*t right there. that charm…is it even a wonder why namor pronounces her as the most powerful person in the surface world? with the way she was able to sway the mind of a vengeful god.

[thislilstangirl]

I hope you can do a take on the Rolling Stone interview with Tenoch Huerta... particularly that part about "romantic chemistry between Namor and Shuri". Absolutely love how you break down and analyze the Namuri dynamic <3 Thank you!!!

thank you for reading!!

and what a lovely interview from rolling stone. i loved reading tenoch’s thoughts and opinions, especially about representation and how namor became more human and grounded with subsequent scripts.

lets look at what he said about killing ramonda:

Remember, he had been trying to create this alliance with Shuri before she became a queen. And Namor is thinking about the future — not because he was planning to kill the queen. But he’s 500 years old. So for him, it’s just a blink. The time goes. In the future, she will be a queen.

now this got me SCREAMING. firstly because, again, he specifically talks about having an alliance with shuri, not wakanda in general. secondly, i love how namor sees time. he looks at shuri and sees her future, not her present. something poetic about that for sure. and he treats her like a queen because to him she might as well be. but of course, shuri isn’t queen yet. it adds credence to my “shuri and the rejection of queenhood” meta. namor is consciously bestowing queenhood onto her. when she rejects his allyship, she is also rejecting his view of her as queen.

and lmao, despite seeing her as a queen he still calls her princess. the princess-is-a-term-of-endearment-theory stands strong.

So to kill Queen Ramonda [Angela Bassett] was never his plan, it was a reaction because they killed a couple of girls of Namor’s kingdom, and it was just a punishment. It’s like: You kill people, I kill your people. But, yeah, I swear to God, first he tried to make an alliance the best way he possibly could! Then things happened.

We been knew. its a somewhat justified act of murder. and i love his choice of word- punishment. it sounds like what a god would do in the face of insolence.

now onto that question.

i’m in two minds about writing about this honestly, because at the end of the day shipping does not and has never required validation from the creatives or cast. it’s a bonus, but isn’t a requirement for a ship to thrive in anyway.

it’s a big enough win that rolling stone is even mentioning romantic chemistry in their interview and to tenoch. another reminder that general audiences were also picking up romantic undertones in their scenes. even if the intent wasn’t romantic, everything from the production design, writing, music, costuming, and direction, gave them enough of a romantic foundation for them to go down that path in the future if they chose.

let’s look at the question and the abridged answer.

Q: On another note, some viewers felt that there was romantic chemistry between Namor and Shuri when she was in your city. Did you play that romantic chemistry deliberately?

A: “I don’t feel it was a romantic touch [between them] I think it was more a human, intimate touch…

I mean, when you meet someone and you have a good relationship, whether this person is the gender that you prefer or not, you always have this ambiguous relationship. It’s normal. It’s human.

If that can evolve into a romantic relationship or not? I don’t know. It wasn’t our intention. It could happen or not.

The beautiful part of this relationship is, it doesn’t need to be romantic to be deep. It doesn’t need to be romantic to be beautiful and bright and intimate…These characters, they create something. I don’t know. It was magical, but not necessarily romantic.”

you know what? i’m okay with it. because what is romance when we think about it? it’s intimacy, it’s connection, it’s beautiful.

the words tenoch uses to describe their relationship are so telling. beautiful. bright. intimate. deep. magical. nothing antagonistic, nothing referring to it as a rivalry, nothing about manipulation, nothing suggesting that their relationship is unequal or inauthentic. those scenes in talokan, were pure, unadulterated connection.

and of course that doesn’t have to be romantic to be compelling, and the intent in those scenes wasn’t romance. but he accepts that because shuri and namor have such a good relationship, it’s normal for it to be seen ambiguous. aka a romantic interpretation is valid (not that we needed that validation).

in the fact tenoch doesn’t dismiss the idea. he very easily could have. If that can evolve into a romantic relationship or not? I don’t know... It could happen or not. not ‘that wouldn’t work out’ or ‘i don’t think namor could see shuri in that way’. just ‘it could be romantic, but that’s not how i was playing it those scenes’.

look, i don’t hold my breath when it comes to marvel and romance and that has been the case for years. it’s not worth the disappointment. if marvel doesn’t pursue nashuri/namuri/seaprincess i wouldn’t be surprised. but we also know that marvel, for better or for worse, listens to the fandom. and with the fandom being generally positive (i couldn’t imagine getting a hit tweet with some of my other ships let me tell you) i’ve allowed a little hope to blossom despite my better judgement.

now that marvel knows that the general audience loved their chemistry and we’re thinking romantic thoughts about them…the scene is set for marvel to make some concrete moves towards that direction in the future. but again, shipping is for fandom. and no one is prying this ship out of my hands.

[thislilstangirl]

shuri and the rejection of queenhood

the other day on twitter, i remarked how shuri’s rejection of queenhood fascinated me. shuri is offered queenhood thrice. and she rejects it thrice. but she deals with two different types of queenhood which is the most interesting part. let me explain.

mythic queenhood: “you said you wanted to burn the world. then let's burn it together.”

let’s start with mythic queenhood. i view a lot of elements of wakanda forever through a mythic lens. it’s something that comes naturally when a story is so textually rich and layered. and it invites us to not take things at face value and play with the extremes myths often do.

when isolated from the rest of the movie, the scene between shuri and namor in talokan feels like something from a fairytale. a chapter from an epic where the princess gets taken to an underwater kingdom, gets courted (politically/romantically/whatever your interpretation) by the ruler of this kingdom, and they are able to see themselves in each other. namor gifts shuri a family heirloom (an heirloom which symbolised a promise that he would be royalty and rule), and they watch the sun shine on the beauty of talokan.

there’s just such a different vibe to these moments between them on talocan. hence when namor offers allyship, a union between two kingdoms, and specifically proposes to her that they “burn it [the world] together” i can’t help but see this as a mythic proposal to become queen who, by his side, will wage war on the surface world.

shuri refuses this strongly. despite her anger and grief, she understands what this union could bring: a world in ruins. she rejects alliance, the mythic queenhood, and most importantly, acts nobly as the protector she will become at the end of the movie.

literal queenhood: “you are queen now.”

the rejection of mythic queenhood and the dead of two innocents, is met with an inevitable retaliation: there’s rhyme in the tragedy: the death of a servant/handmaiden, ultimately leading to the death of a queen.

namor, the ‘peter pan’ god king he is, was told no and sought out a yes. once his mythic proposal was rejected, he decided to force the title on her. shuri was unable to outrun a fate that namor, a ‘god’, bestowed upon her, despite her steadfast rejection of it. you don’t just reject a ‘god’. she messed with myth and myth swung back hard. there’s a concurrent mythical storyline happening here, which i won’t completely explore here, but it’s exciting to think about.

anyway, this pushback by fate leans nicely into what happens in this part of the film. which can only be summarised as shuri’s illusion of control being shattered. this can refer to her belief that she is her grief when really it’s eating her alive. it can refer to shuri ‘containing’ her anger at the world. it can refer to her need to be purely pragmatic and logical, when her world her life is actually steeped in spiritualism. all is broken.

a vengeful protector: “i am the black panther, and i am here for retribution!”

the rejection of her this literal queenhood starts once shuri becomes the black panther. not to say the two titles can’t coincide, but with a furious, vengeful shuri, one falls by the wayside. seeing killmonger in the ancestral plane and not her mother, solidified this. to me, the mantle of queen wasn’t completely passed down. instead we have this terrifying and beautiful hybrid of duty and vengeance.

when namor greets shuri as “princess”, she replies back “NO. “i am the black panther, and i am here for retribution!”. despite literally being queen, in her words (or lack of words) and her actions this is a rejection of that part of her.

she is the protector of wakanda, perhaps a deadly goddess in the heat of her battle with namor. her role as black panther becomes a vessel for all her pain and anguish. and more importantly the future of wakanda is second to her revenge. eternal war was about to be triggered until she is pulled back from the brink. who helps her? the queen mother.

this moment is not queen to queen, because shuri was not acting like a queen or even completely believes that she is one. it’s queen to princess. it’s mother to daughter. And it’s only after queen ramonda is able to pass on those words that shuri couldn’t receive in the ancestral plane, does the mantle truly get passed in that moment. shuri is now the queen.

and isn’t it funny, that after shuri accepts literal queenhood, she also accepts a mythical queenhood, in the form of an alliance with namor. of course, at the moment, this is a queenhood rooted in the love of her kingdom, and the empathy and understanding of namor’s kingdom. and its forged not in fire, but in water as their alliance is communicated to their soldiers over the atlantic ocean.

the final rejection

there isn’t too much to say. skipping straight to the end of the movie, shuri formally rejects literal queenhood clearing the way for m’baku to be king. and it’s…peaceful. she has control over her own narrative, finally because she has control over her emotions. but this could only come from her being born again through the literal flames of her fury. there’s a lot of death and rebirth in this movie. the mythical queenhood still stands. and she has the bracelet, and the heart shaped herb that came from that bracelet, to prove it.

but for now, she has decided on being princess shuri, the black panther, protector of wakanda. a role that is steeped in tradition, but gives allows her a way to channel her technological prowess and her tremendous love for her kingdom.

_

so what happens next? that’s a whole different meta, but let’s just say i don’t see a forth rejection on the cards. if her arc in this movie was partly about rejection- rejecting spiritualism and her grief until it couldn’t be neglected no more, i would like to see acceptance play a big part in her next arc. but again, that’s a different meta.

[thislilstangirl]

bast’s gamble: shuri’s descent into godhood

shuri’s brief stint as a goddess (symbolically/mythically/whatever) is probably one of the most fascinating parts of wakanda forever. and i call it a descent into godhod because there’s nothing glorious about it. it’s ugly, fiery and brutal. it’s very nearly a tragedy: shuri praying for bast to save her brother, her prayers being ‘ignored’, only for bast to grant her power to seek retribution and to find vengeance corroding shuri from the inside.

shuri’s descent into godhood starts with her death. the heart shaped herb is represents spiritual death and rebirth- the person gets transported to the ancestral plane, meets their ancestors , and then awakes from a burial blessed with the powers of the goddess bast. it serves a unique role of both killing and reviving the individual. and the only way for shuri to become a goddess, is to be reborn into one.

shuri wants the will of a warrior. she wants to be strong enough to best namor, have him beg for mercy, and kill him. through n’jadaka, she is asking bast for the power to enact retribution. and whose role usually is it to dish out punishment and retribution in legend and lore? a god’s. shuri, consciously or not, is asking for the power of a god.

i think bast is aware of shuri’s previous non-belief and understands that granting the powers of the black panther to shuri will enable her path of retribution. shuri literally sets the ancestral plane on fire with her fury. and yet, bast obliges with her request and gives her strength to burn the whole world if she wishes. the question is why? we don’t know much about bast in the mcu, but in marvel comics she has a strong sense of morality and justice. bast casts judgement and decides who is and who isn’t worthy of the becoming black panther. she has even denied shuri before.

depending on how you see bast, shuri becoming the black panther could either be seen as a punishment or a test. for the former, it’s a classic case of hubris. granting shuri the power to obtain the one thing she believes she needs, but knowing that it will only lead to more pain and misery for her. all of this as punishment for her non-belief and vindictive spirit. shuri, in her state of anger and vengeance, will cause her own self destruction.

the second reason is more in line with a journey of a hero. shuri is given the power to cause eternal war and the gamble is that shuri will know better and and walk back from the precipice. there is an understanding that shuri has a goddess’ anger, but a protector’s heart. and there is a hope that shuri will give up the former for the latter. bast risked the fate of wakanda and the world on this gamble. i want to believe this reason. it’s more hopeful.

for whatever reason, shuri becomes the black panther. but with a goddess’ touch everything is amplified. shuri’s once casual confidence turns to arrogance, her rage becomes wrath. we see shuri (as i love saying) become a vengeful goddess. she’s dismissive of nakia and m’baku. the lives of her people come second to her goal of killing namor. it’s been a while since i’ve seen a female character be this ugly in her anger. it’s amazing.

we know how it ends, with a spear on namor’s neck and shuri about to do the deed that causes eternal war- a goddess queen killing a god king. shuri is also about to kill her mirror image, something that will irreversibly wound her deeply. but then, bast’s gamble pays off. her protector’s heart fights against her goddess’ rage. her kindness and empathy are inextinguishable beacons despite her grief. shuri does not walk off the cliff edge. maybe as encouragement or as a gift, bast allows ramonda to give a brief message to her daughter. and in that moment, shuri lets go of her godhood, an amplifier of her anger, and instead stands as a warrior and protector over namor.

and if bast was intending to punish and not test? then it’s love changes shuri’s tragic fate. the love she has for her people, the love namor has for his people, the love between child and mother, the connection between two people who understand each other entirely. just like a fairytale, love conquers all and shuri is able to relinquish her fury. bast, impressed, accepts this twist of fate and allows shuri to continue being the black panther.

there was something mesmering and powerful about shuri’s emotions during her stint as a goddess. i like to think bast knew shuri could cope with the weight of godhood and not be crushed by it. at least for a small amount of time. i also think shuri is at peace without that righteous rage. she’s no longer burning, she’s surviving. and with clarity of mind she’s able to become the protector bast was gambling on.

[thislilstangirl]

shuri and namor: the mirror image

let’s jump into this well overdue meta, shall we?

shuri and namor’s dynamic is compelling because we are seeing two mirror images meet each other, confront each other, and eventual align with each other. to see your mirror image is to see your reflection. you can read it as soulmates, twin flames, whatever. i use the word mirror image because the imagery of both shuri and namor standing on opposite sides of that same mirror is a pretty apt description of their relationship. and we see what happens when the glass between them breaks.

“the same wound”

tenoch has said repeatedly that shuri and namor share the same wound. this wound being grief and trauma. for shuri, this wound is fresh: the death of her brother despite her efforts to save him. it has left her with paralysing guilt, a cold detachment to spiritualism and an anger that could burn the world. for namor, this wound is centuries old: witnessing the heartbreak of his mother due to colonialism. as the ruler of talokan he’s burdened with trying to protect his people from an evil he has witnessed and has no real control over.

the scene at the beach is when we first see the two interact. “this better not be apart of your ritual” shuri says, as if their words or mere presence had summoned a stranger to them. and it’s kind of true. namor, only after overhearing the depth of shuri’s rage, emerges from the sea. at five hundred years old, he is well-versed in rage and he already understands that him and shuri share the same wound from her words.

most of the conversation flows through ramonda, wielding a spear as her guards herself and her daughter from a god who promises war and ruin if they do not deliver him the scientist. namor is calm and collected in this moment, at peace with the fact he holds the advantage in this tug of war. also at peace with the fact he has a potential ally in shuri already. shuri is on guard, but intensely curious at the vibranium clad god with winged feet. she doesn’t realise yet how alike they are. perhaps her disconnect with the spiritual has played a part in that. in any case, her curiosity is already tethering her to her mirror image.

“we must look at each other and recognise we are the same”

after shuri’s “not-abduction-abduction” we find ourselves just outside talokan in a cave. shuri is ready to face namor, for a chance to save riri williams and understand namor’s motivations. after a quick wardrobe change she meets namor alone, surrounded by his history.

shuri’s dress, which is specifically made for her, is pure talokanil artistry: a light white silk robe with an elaborate neckpiece made of jade and pearls. a royal fit. namor’s likeliness is also embodied on the lower part of the dress. interesting that namor, perhaps subconsciously, is creating a literal mirror image of himself. manifesting the mythical through the literal. when looking at shuri he is now seeing his culture, his history, his likeliness reflected back at him.

for them to be allies, he must show how they are the same. so he tells the story of his people, the spanish conquistadors, his mother’s heartbreak over leaving her home, the evil that took over their land, and finally his vow to hold no love for the surface world. shuri still doesn’t understand- why are you telling me this?. which makes sense. namor has had five hundred years to sit and understand his wound. shuri has spent the last year ignoring it. she isn’t making the connections between the two of them that namor was able to do in a heartbeat.

instead, she uses her smarts to try and save riri: keep her in talokan and send riri back to wakanda safe. and i don’t think namor was expecting that. he pauses, considering and thinking over her proposal. then shuri says she would love to see talokan and he stumbles slightly, perhaps bashful, but quickly agrees to her suggestion. it’s like seeing people on opposite sides a mirror, tentative tapping at the glass. while they are mirror images, they are not identical. the mistake on namor’s part is to believe shuri’s response should be the same as his. when really it should be complementary. shuri is actually softening his edge with reason.

ryan coogler has said one theme of wakanda forever is smarts v wisdom. while shuri is a certified genius, she doesn’t have the wisdom that a god of five hundred years have. and i think we see that on display throughout their scenes in talokan. namor is patient telling her the why. he’s betting that his wisdom will be enough to convince her. while shuri counters with reason and logic.

“only the most broken people can be great leaders”

namor gifts shuri his mother’s bracelet, finishing his literal mirror image, hopeful and confident that she understands how similar they are now. they share a vulnerable moment, the glass between them is the thinnest. shuri finally starts to unpick her grief, confused as to why she had to face such tragedy when she has the gifts to avoid it. and namor, a god who has to constantly deal with grief, doesn’t have the answer. all he knows is the wisdom his ancestors gave him- only the most broken people make great leaders.

but shuri, still doesn’t understand. she believes this whole situation about the scientist, but it’s about more than that. again, smarts v wisdom. shuri can’t see the bigger picture until namor shows her. and when namor lays all his cards on the table and shuri is shocked by his commitment to war.

namor needs an ally and shuri is his only option. if wakanda doesn’t stand by him, he will drown wakanda along with the rest of the world. while shuri thinks it’s madness, the glass between them paper thin. namor sees and knows her as well as he knows himself. he gives shuri one last reply so that she understands how thin the glass between them is: you said you wanted to burn the world. then let’s burn it together.

shuri’s rescue goes awry. the death of two innocent talokanil will be seen as an act of war. shuri knows this for certain because now she knows him. as soon as she is back in her lab she is looking at defences and telling aneka to keep her weapons, while ramonda is giving riri a tour and nakia talks with okoye. everyone knows namor is a threat, so why is it only shuri who is on edge? because the rage she sees in namor is exactly like her own. and that rage is enough to burn down the world.

namor, well namor is pissed. and rightfully so to some degree. but still he wants an ally. he still wants shuri by his side. but he thinks the only way that is possible, is for her to get wise. and fast. she needs to break. just like how he has been broken over the centuries. shuri needs to lose her innocence and to do that, he needs to kill the queen.

a child without love

the death of the mother triggers godhood for both namor and shuri. yes, namor was technically already a god king since birth, but it’s truly the death of his mother that marks the end of his childhood and start of his godhood as namor.

and shuri follows the same path. shuri becomes namor- a child without love. when burying her mother, shuri remarks that her heart is buried with ramonda. and just like how namor’s godhood is marked with the death of his childhood (triggered by the death of his mother), m’baku remarks that she could no longer be considered a child due to all the loss she has suffered.

and shuri isn’t a child, she’s vengeance incarnate. just like namor. the glass is between shuri and namor has shattered. the one is now the other. and more importantly, killing the one will now kill the other.

when two gods go to war the only outcome could be eternal war. namor and shuri can be interpreted as many different gods, or myths. one interpretation comes from the aztec gods quetzalcoatl and tezcatlipoca- brothers who were a part of the creation myth, one represented by a feathered serpent and the other a black jaguar. it’s fascinating dynamic (and probably for a different meta). it’s just important to highlight that this isn’t just two mirror images fighting. it’s godly mirror images fighting. which is why the phrase eternal war feels intentional, but also a stunning apt. and also it reminds me of the relationship mythical gods have, where destruction is inevitable and the grievances are personal.

so, anyway they fight. and it’s brutal. she clips his wing, grounding him, the god brought to the level of a mortal. a role reversal of their previous interactions. after punches, slashes, and stabs, shuri finally bests him. and goes for the kill.

but here’s the thing. you can’t just kill your mirror image. when you see yourself in another person, killing them would be akin to killing that part of yourself. it will only deepen the wound not heal it. but also you’re not suppose to shatter the glass between your mirror image because you’re not suppose to become your mirror image. it’s not natural. mirror images/soulmates/twin flames are suppose to be complementary. two separate halves coming together. not the same half overlapping. it’s why namor’s plan to force shuri is to become him- a broken ruler without love- backfires. he inflicted pain onto shuri, like how he had pain was inflicted as a child. trauma begets trauma. he was closer to a union when bargaining with a princess, not a goddess ready to rip his heart out. with her claws.

healing the wound

shuri almost makes the mistake of killing namor and pauses. she is reminded that he is her reflection, her mirror image. they share the same pain, they share the same love for their people. queen ramonda tells her to show him who you are and in that moment there is clarity. she is not namor. she is not a resentful, vengeful goddess. she is shuri, daughter of t’chaka and ramonda, sister of t’challa. and she will not risk eternal war. her last act as a goddess is to restore the glass namor had shattered. she finally understands and sees namor as her mirror image and thus is able to grant him an alliance.

shuri is now able to heal her wound. her stint of being a goddess and queen, has matured her. she confronts her grief in a healthy way- by going back to the spiritualism she dismissed at the start. as for namor, the alliance is healing his original wound by making him trust shuri, a person of a surface world, and choosing to put his people above the pain and anger that has been fuelling him for centuries. he is prepared for war but he will not be the one to start it. two mirror images that couldn’t heal without the other.

he paints their fight, two distinct figures- the k'uk'ulkan and the black panther. equals. he knows not to shatter the mirror again, to not risk the wrath of the most powerful person, in the most powerful nation. and he doesn’t have to. they are mirror images after all. if, or really when, shuri will want his assistance, all she has to do is knock the glass. and he will be ready.

[thislilstangirl]

“Shuri would never forgive him-”

and i wouldn’t hold that expectation over her. honestly having this deeply painful, terrible act that ties them together is amazing to me from a storytelling perspective.

i can’t overstate how much i love dramatic extremes in my ships. i want to be able to write reams and reams about the complexities and nuances of a couple. i want to be able tie in myth, allegory and folklore. i want to feel deeply and explore hyperbolic, fantastical situations.

what i’m trying to say is the challenge of finding love and comfort after an unforgivable act fascinates me. and being able to explore that in fiction where we can play around with character, story, and motivation is the best thing.

essentially why not. let’s test the imagination and wonder how these two people who have hurt each other find love with each other.

i guess this is my reply in general to people who don’t understand the attraction of enemies to lovers pairings.

and also, sometimes the characters are just that hot.

[thislilstangirl]

Hi I have another question - why do you think Namor told Queen Ramonda that there was "Nothing" she could offer him to get Shuri back? Considering his previous discussion with Shuri, I was expecting him to ask for Wakanda's alliance in exchange for Shuri's safety and return. Or was it somewhat implied with the "she will stay with me for the time being"?

Or maybe he was more interested in Shuri's approval and agreement rather than the queen's, especially since he kept bargaining with Shuri specifically?

Or did he simply want to keep Shuri with him as more than a hostage, but as possibly his consort or wife?

Love all your analyses, thanks so much for spilling out your thoughts for us Namor x Shuri shippers to read. 😆

firstly, thank you!

there’s a lot to say about queen ramonda and namor. they have such an interesting dynamic! but i’ll try to keep my answer focused on the questions you asked.

why “nothing”

namor doesn’t trust ramonda. and he also knows he isn’t like ramonda. if ramonda did agree to an alliance, i’m not sure namor would completely believe her offer. and any alliance would be far more assured if shuri stayed in talokan anyway.

also, why settle on an alliance, when he could potentially have someone to burn the world together with?

he knows which royal he can charm and convince to his side. shuri, while just and moral, has the same destructive fire in her as namor. and he sees that. so when they start talking he is coming from the advantage of understanding her on that emotional level. he doesn’t have that advantage with ramonda. for all intents and purposes, shuri is his most desired ally. there’s nothing he’s going to give up in exchange for her. the more time he can spend with her, the closer he can get to his desired outcome- a world on fire. namor is blinded by this hope, even in the face of shuri’s strong rejection of a war against the surface world. so blinded, he’s happy to kill her mother, make her queen and still offer a defence alliance!

is there anything else to his words? romantic even? let’s see. namor is a ‘god’ surrounded by people who see him a warrior, protector and king. and while he is happy to be of service to his people, is also isolated because of this. shuri doesn’t have those expectations of him. she talks to him as an equal and happy to challenge him. to be blunt, she must be a breath of fresh air to him. not to mention she is wickedly smart, beautiful and overall a charming woman to be around. and of course, she’s got that same fire and fury as he. why would he not want to spend time with her? especially as shuri has already suggested that she could stay while riri goes back to wakanda.

i believe these are the thoughts that inform that very confident and playful “nothing😃” namor gives to queen ramonda.