#non christian quaker

[chronically-chaotic-cryptid]

If you've ever wondering what it's like being a Quaker but specifically being a Quaker in my brain I have a moment about 2-3 times a day minimum where ill be doing something random and probably fun or quiet (or not, maybe it's really loud) and my thoughts and such will stop dead in their tracks and I will take a hard 180° and start to think about how there's this light inside every human that makes them inherently interesting and beautiful and equal and good, or how silence comes from all around us and the joy of just sitting in the sunlight of creation, or how people are some of the most beautiful things to ever exist and how grateful I am to get to experience us, or the importance and wonder of the natural world and all of creation and the necessity of fighting to protect it, or how queer people are holy and sacred in our own little ways or the injustices of the world and how oppressively horrible they are but also that that's why hope and fighting and seeing a better world is so important.

And on and on and on. And then I'll go back to like making brownies or doing maths homework or something.

[trans-cuchulainn]

apparently tonight is for whatever the low church prod equivalent of confession is lmao you're getting all my dark baptist past right here

[magnetothemagnificent]

if it is your view that antisemitism is inherent to the christian bible, do you believe that it is possible for religious christians and jewish people to peacefully coexist?

It is absolutely possible for Christians and Jews to coexist, as long as:

-Christians reject supercessionism. Supercessionism, the belief that Christianity is the "progression" of Judaism and that Judaism is just less-evolved Christianity, is inherently antisemitic. Rejecting that belief is integral to not being an antisemitic Christian.

-Christians stop believing that anyone who isn't Christian needs to be "saved", and stop trying to convert non-Christians.

-Christians stop appropriating Judaism and closed Jewish practices.

-Christians stop trying to speak for Jews and Judaism.

-Christians recognize the history of Christian antisemitism.

-Christians associate with and care for Jews not because "Jesus was Jewish" but because we are people deserving of humanity.

There are many religious Christians that coexist with Jews. In the community where my family lives, many religious Catholics and Quakers work at the Jewish schools there and there's a lot of solidarity. My father's stepfather is a religious Protestant Christian and he's an incredible grandfather and ally. It's absolutely possible if the work is done.

[monstrousproductions]

TELL US ABOUT QUAKERISM

This is an absolutely hilarious thing to find in my inbox in all caps thank you so much 😂 I was going to say something like, "I'll try to keep this brief" but realistically I know I'm gonna waffle so BRACE FOR WAFFLING.

Quakers - also known as the Religious Society of Friends - are a denomination of Christianity that was founded in the mid-1600s in the north of England. It was part of the Dissenters movement, which is a term for a collection of Protestant denominations that grew up around that time out of criticism, dissatisfaction and... dissent... with the Church of England.

The branch of Quakerism that I belong to is actually in the global minority for Quakers. Most Quakers worldwide belong to evangelical branches and I'm not at all clear on how their theology differs from mainstream evangelical Christianity.

Those meetings (the Quaker term for churches/congregations) are what's called "programmed", which means their worship takes the form of a service easily recognisible by most Christians with hymns, a minister, prepared readings from the Bible, etc. I really can't speak much to that side of things as I know almost nothing abou it!

In contrast, my branch of Quakerism - by far the most common in Britain and Ireland, and I think I'm right in saying the most common in Europe and North Amerca though I'm not 100% sure - is "unprogrammed". There's no service, instead we sit together for an hour in silence. That silence might be broken by any person taking part who feels moved to stand up and speak - this is called "ministry" and for theist Quakers, it's understood as being a response to the promptings of what some people call the Light, some people call God, some people call the Holy Spirit.

This unusual worship style is an expression of the foundational Quaker belief that nobody has more of a connection to the holy than anyone else. A minister isn't better able to speak to God than a layperson, and we place a lot of emphasis on speaking to your own experiences of the divine and respecting others' experiences. A phrase often used to describe this idea is "There is that of God in everyone."

As well as unprogrammed worship, this side of Quakerism has historically been very socially and theologically liberal/radical. Early Quakers were very involved in prison reform and abolition of the slave trade, and that social consciousness has carried through the centuried to see Quakers involved in all sorts of social justice causes from pacifism and anti-war work to climate justice and queer liberation.

Quakerism is a non-credal faith, which means there's no list of beliefs you have to subscribe to in order to be a Quaker. It's also non-sacramental, so we don't have things like christenings, baptisms, communion, etc.

There is a difference between being a "member" of a meeting and being an "attender", but the differences are largely administrative and effect what kinds of roles you can take in the meeting rather than whether you're considered a "full" Quaker or not. Those roles are things like treasurer or clerk - logistical roles related to the running of the meeting rather than spiritual leadership - and they change hands regularly.

That said, there are some basic concepts aside from "that of God in everyone" that guide most Quaker ideas. These are called "testimonies", and there's no total consensus on what they are - I have a feeling different Quakers in the world have a different list - but the ones I'm familiar with are Peace, Equality, Truth and Simplicity. Some people add Sustainability, personally I think that's accounted for under the first four, namely Equality and Simplicity.

The Peace testimony might be the most famous Quaker principle. Quakers are a pacifist group (though not all Quakers agree on what that pacifism should look like...) and have oppose war and violence in all sorts of ways, from refusing to join the military and being conscientious objectors to not buying their children toy guns and so on.

Equality is pretty simple to get your head round! If all people have something holy in them, they all deserve to be treated fairly. Quakers resist personal and structural inequality, and we organise ourselves in a way that reflect that as well as working to make the world around us more equal and fair. This is both on a broad scale and on a granular one - some Quakers still use "thee/thou" because early Quakers did as a way of rejecting social hierarchies. Personally I prefer not to use salutations which stem from the same thing.

Simplicity is often simplified to a kind of general anti-consumerism, which is why I think Sustainability falls under this (I think it goes under Equality too because of the social impact of climate change etc). With this testimony, you're encouraged to find joy in simple pleasures and to appreciate the world around you. You don't need more stuff to be happy, and we owe it to ourselves and others to think carefully about how much we consume, what we consume, and why.

Finally, Truth or Integrity is about living up to your principles. It's about being honest with yourself about whether you're living your faith and putting your values into action, and about speaking the truth in all cases. Early Quakers refused to take legal vows or oaths, because they committed to always speaking the truth so it made no sense theologically for them to say "OK but for real now I'm actually being honest". I'd still "affirm" in court rather than take a vow, for the same reason.

All in all, I'm really proud of being a Quaker and personally I can see a lot of Quakerism in Monstrous Agonies (and all my writing!) which isn't very suprising because Quakerism informs a huge part of my life and worldview. It's not some kind of perfect, historically spotless religion - as well as being abolitionists, some Quakers were also slave-owners, for example, or were involved in the residential schools for Native Americans, and individual Quakers are as flawed as any other group. But I think we make a good effort at repairing those wrongs, being honest about our failings and making reparations.

Also, the porridge oats are nothing to do with us.

[givemearmstopraywith]

im usually prettt good with deciphering american culture but i still dont know what a quaker is in its entirety

although i love quakerism and attend meetings sporadically, i am not a quaker myself (yet- we'll see). additionally, there are many different kinds of quakers (for instance, evangelical versus programmed quakers) but i'll try to give a general overview.

quakers, formally known as the religious society of friends, are a historically christian denomination group which developed during a period of religious unrest during and after the english civil wars and the english reformation. george fox is recognized as the founder of the quaker movement. quakers reject religious ceremony and episcopal hierarchy. although quakerism was founded in england, religious persecution (the term "quaker" was actually somewhat pejorative: george fox wrote in 1650 that, "Justice Bennet of Derby first called us Quakers because we bid them tremble at the word of God") led many to migrate to north america in the mid-1650s.the guiding principle of quakers is generally considered to be the idea that every human being has the capacity to experience "the light within" or "answer that of God in everyone." quakers are perhaps best known for their advocacy: they have been involved in abolitionism, women's rights, and civil rights, and continue to advocate for non-violence in accordance with their belief in pacifism.

quaker.org gives a highly accessible overview of their beliefs and practices.

additionally, you can access some of the writing of early quakers here.

bayard rustin, the organizer of the march on washington, was a quaker; another famous quaker is this website's beloved public universal friend; and both joan baez and, weirdly, hozier were raised in the society of friends.

[resonancewitness]

witnessing resonance, part 3: holding on to what's important

what do I mean when I call myself a witness of resonance? continuing from here and here

and the third layer of meaning of witnessing, the last one for me (so far?) 

here I am going to dare to go out on a limb and give words to some experiences that in the modern world often seem to be much more taboo for discussion than the experiences of kinky sexuality (but I don’t have data, so maybe I am wrong :)) 

I am going to talk about witnessing something precious as a

personal non-religious spiritual practice in a secular world

I need to make a disclaimer that I do not assume that participating in any fandom or in this particular fandom may have such meaning for other participants, I am talking only about myself, using writing to make sense of my own experience

because not talking about it is subjecting myself to silencing as a form of self-oppression, and for the sake of what? I would need a valid reason to self-silence

anyway, back to definitions

I would call “spiritual” any practice of maintaining connection with the important values and principles that are not obvious and not very common in the everyday world

say, I want to believe in love that goes beyond distance, or in going strong against the current when it would be so much easier, in a certain practical sense, to give up and just drift along, or in justice and nobility, in human decency, mercy and empathy, — and, say, I don’t see many examples of these in my everyday surroundings, especially when I read the news

I would need special practices to keep re-connecting with these values that are so important to me

I consider the situation when people lose hope, perspective, sense of direction, persistence, and strength to go on, to be a spiritual crisis. “the dark night of the soul”

this can be also accompanied by a feeling of profound isolation

the practices of re-connecting with hope, perspective, sense of direction, persistence and strength to go on I will be calling spiritual practices. they are also recreating a sense of connection and belonging

as Casper ter Kuile says in “The Power of Ritual”, anything can be a spiritual practice if it is done with intention, attention and repetition 

everybody is capable of feeling awe, the emotion that accompanies meeting with something vast and mysterious, unconceivable in ordinary circumstances (“…how are you even real, sir?..”) 

when I come to the turtledom for my daily dose of beauty, inspiration and awe, I experience some sort of a boost that helps me reconnect to the values that are important to me, and I become more capable of continuing to do what I consider important in circumstances that, from a rational perspective, do not look too promising

…if they can, I can, right?.. albeit, of course, I possess less resources, but neither do I aim that high nor are the demands on me that intense. 

so, now to the Quakers. when George Fox formulated their mission in the 1600s,  it sounded like this: “Walking through the world cheerfully, responding to that of God in every person in such a way that the person will feel blessed and you will feel the blessings”. 

One of the central values (they call them testimonies) of the Quakers is honesty/ integrity: you have the right / and sometimes the duty to speak about what is true in your experience. If you met God personally in your experience, you speak of it, if you didn’t, you don’t. Easy :) Thus one can be a Quaker, but not a Christian (albeit here can be different opinions, but we’ll set them aside). 

but “that of God in every person” is something that we respond to with awe; amazing talent, giftedness, moral beauty in all its forms: courage, kindness, mercy, steadfastness etc. 

when I say that as a turtle I am witnessing something precious, it means that I also speak of what I see that is for me “that of God”, without implying any religious connotations 

what touches and inspires me today? how can I witness/ testify about it in such a way that it might also touch and inspire others and give them hope and strength to persevere? and in such a way that I would feel (the energy of) the blessings? 

bringing together all three layers of meaning, what touches me most in what I experience when I follow yizhan’s expressions of their preferred identities, is what I interpret as something intangible and related to maintaining hope and persistence when the road ahead is long, and the outcome uncertain; the feeling of purity and “dirt doesn’t stick to the pure ones”; something that makes me think of magic, mysticism and out-of-the-ordinary-world quality of the connection. 

I am aware that it is my personal need for this that focuses my attention in this manner

but I am very grateful that at this moment in my life I found something that feeds and supports me in such a way 

[vaspider]

Just throwing it out there, but I'm a Quaker (aka Society of Friends) (a lot of people consider us to be Christian but I don't - we're not expected to believe in Jesus or even a god, nor read the Bible, go to church, celebrate Christian holidays, any of that, though we're allowed to if we want to. Quakers are actually allowed to belong to any other religion, or lack thereof, which is rather un-christian. Like, you could be a Muslim Quaker or a Hindu Quaker or whatever, it's all good (I'm an atheist Quaker). We did start off as an offshoot of Christianity but there's plenty of offshoot religions that become their own thing, like Christianity itself). Context aside, it's literally, explicitly against my religion to try to convert people. We're not even allowed to suggest it to people, although it's not a closed religion. Like, if you ask me about becoming a Quaker, I'm welcome to talk about it, but I can't just tell people that they should do it.

So yeah, just adding to the anti "proselytizing is just a required part of religion" pile.

On a side note, the main tenets of Quakerism are Simplicity, Peace, Integrity, Community, Equality, and Stewardship, and in my experience, a frightening number of Christians (my parents included) balk at the "equality" bit. Like, people have legit gotten angry with me about it. Despite the "we're all God's children"/"all sins are equal in the eyes of God" thing that a lot of them talk about, because when *we* say equality, we actually do mean equal.

Also, fun fact since it's Coronation Day or whatever, Quakerism is inherently anti-monarchy as part of the "equality" tenet 😉

I attended multiple Quaker meetings (Lehigh Valley Friends Meeting, Lancaster Friends Monthly Meeting, Gwynedd Friends Meeting) for like... a total of about eight years of my life, and I was planning to marry a Quaker. My HS boyfriend was super active in Young Friends; we used to do a lot of the setup and teardown for the Peace Walk in December and before First Day Meeting. Emet and I used a self-attesting/Friends wedding license. I spent most of my life before 2019 living in the eastern half of Pennsylvania or in Maryland. I know what Quakers are, but I appreciate your thorough explanation for folx who might not know.

I ... have a lot of respect for the Society of Friends, and I applaud the Society's attempts to keep everyone under the same big tent, but to say that the Friends are not Christian is quite a stretch. 89% of Friends worldwide belong to Evangelical or Programmed Meetings, with a pastor and Bible readings.

It's probably more true to say that American Quakers of Friends General Conference do not have a Creed, that some Quakers are not Christian and that many Meetings, especially Unprogrammed Meetings in Friends General Conference in the United States, welcome diverse faiths as well as non-theist members.

I think it's important, however, not to look away from how deeply-rooted many Xian ideals and concepts are in Friends philosophy. Saying "Friends aren't Xian" kind of allows for a sort of magical thinking that all of those ideas - some of which are harmful or have been used for great harm - are just gone. That's not the case.

There's a lot of classism issues in many Friends Meetings, too, especially some of the older ones, because many of those Meetings are populated by people who have an awful lot of old money, and that can give people outsized voices when it comes to seeking consensus.

At least, that's what caused me to come away from the Friends, though I went through multiple times of returning to Meeting because I was deeply Convinced at multiple points. I was drawn to Meeting very strongly by the ideal, and the reality pushed me away.

None of this is to say that Friends don't do wonderful things or that FGC's work isn't often lovely and commendable. I just ... object to the idea that Quakers aren't Christian. Well, no, many are, and the deeply Xian roots of the Society are still very visible to me. I love the Friends deeply (the design for a Publick Universal Friend pin is waiting for me to set up our next Kickstarter), and I'm very glad you find such joy and fulfillment there. I have confidence that if anyone can continue working on the issues within the conference itself and on the greater issues of the world with patience, consideration, and genuine consensus-seeking, it's FGC.

[yardsards]

can i ask about your experience as a quaker (or growing up as one? i just saw you mention bein one in some tags)

i jus don't know much about them

so i was not raised quaker, i was raised baptist. which was. 0/10, do not recommend. all the guilt of catholicism with none of the stained glass lmaooo

like, i did resinate with the idea of there being some sort of higher power and i liked the idea of getting together with other believers to discuss spiritual matters but as i got older and started thinking for myself i realized i really didn't like a lot of things about the church. i hated the bigoted beliefs of its members. i hated the emphasis on blind obedience to authority. i didn't believe that the whole literal truth could be found within one book, specifically one group's interpretation of said book. and the idea that people were born inherently bad and sinful and that a supposedly kind and just god would condemn people to eternal suffering just for not believing the "right" things just did not sit well with me at all

when i went off to college i decided to try out a few different churches around town. i ended up settling on a progressive presbyterian church. the community was great and very accepting of queer people. i had some minor qualms with the theology but it wasn't like with my parents' church where every sermon made me feel increasingly nauseous, and i generally felt *good* during and after the services

and then covid hit and while they did stream their sermons, i lost that sense of community and just kinda... fell away

throughout all this i was researching different faiths online, both christian and non-christian. and one faith that kept popping up a lot that i liked the sound of was quakerism. like at one point i remember taking some online quiz of like "what religion do your values most align with" and quakerism was very in the lead. (before this, i'd only really been exposed to quakerism in history textbooks and assumed the religion died out alongside puritanism)

in the end what got me really interested was actually a video by a youtuber i liked, a queer/disability advocate and historical fashion enjoyer who also happened to be quaker

and after looking more into it, i decided to try attending a quaker meeting. which was easier due to covid cuz i could find a church online (located physically hundreds of miles from me) that did their sunday services over zoom

and so i attended and the people there were great and were doing actual good in their communities. and the way services were run, and their beliefs about what god *was* and all of that just hit me with an intense feeling of like. holy shit this is what i've always wanted from religion.

the video explains the sort of core beliefs and practices of quakerism better than i can but the main belief is that like. every person is godly. as such, it's our job to treat all living people as equally and kindly as possible. additionally, since we all have god inside of us, we need to look inwards and come to our own conclusions about our own religious beliefs and practices (and generally respect other people's religious beliefs even if they differ from our own, so long as they're not causing real tangible harm)

i haven't attended any meetings in a while, due to that group going back to semi in person (they still stream it out but it feels more like being a spectator than a member) and there being no quaker meetinghouses in the tiny town i currently live in, coinciding with me being too depressed to regularly attend anything. but i'm planning to start attending quaker meetings again once i move to a real city

[mars-and-the-theoi]

So…I’m a Quaker now

I haven’t posted here in a while and that’s because I’ve had some revelations. I hesitate to say a faith-crisis but I don’t think it really falls into that. For years now I’ve been really interested in Quakerism and I’ve finally decided to take the jump. I know Pagan Quakers exist (while Quakerism started as a Christian based religion it has changed and whole there are still Christian-Quakers there are Quakers from a lot of other ideologies and even religions as well as well as non-theist Quakers) but for now I wanna stick with straight Quakerism and potentially Christian-Quakerism as that has always kind of been my thoughts on Christianity and it’s complicated but I’ll get around to talking about it eventually.

Besides that, I am going to keep the blog up! And I will continue to even reblog stuff here that I think y’all might be interested in. I may also talk about Quakerism is well! So if you’re curious about Quakerism then stick around.

Obviously, I don’t hate folks from other religions. I never have, never will. If you’re happy then I’m happy for you. Don’t feel like I’m going to come at you all preachy preachy about things. Cause I’ve never been that person. I’ve always respected other folks’ faiths and nothing can change that. It’s how I was raised, it’s what I believe.

You can also 100% still ask me questions about helpol related stuff as I do get messages and such on that from time to time from folks! I’ll do my best to answer those questions and such.

[chronically-chaotic-cryptid]

Being a non-Christian Quaker is so weird because like, Jesus' message of unconditional love and grace for everyone in society and his call to reach out and help those around you is beautiful and valuable. Jesus and me would definetly get along.

But also, God is not one thing and God is Spirit and people and nature and joy and sorrow it is everywhere there is a divnity and a light to all things in creation and the source of that light is itself. The universe is open and beautiful, the sky makes my soul rise up and fly the trees make me feel joy and peace and hope and people, people most of all, I find beautiful. And all of this is found in silence and everyday life. It is found in waiting and calmness it is found is business when you stop for just a second. It is more than words or one being or doctrine it is everything and it is indescribable.

The teachings of Jesus are valuable. They show us one way of living that brings kindness and shows and honours that of god in everyone. But the Bible, the Christian idea of the world and of God, is not what I feel. I feel so much more, personally.

[gwydionmisha]

Personal: I Have a Lot of Feelings about a Lot of Things

I have lost track of how many missed cleaning appointments there were. It's been weeks. I've been scheduling twice a week since November in hopes of getting one a month. Which is annoying, but not nightmarish right now, but gets ugly fast in March, when Goth Millennial is going to burn through all their hours fast taking care of me post surgery.

The Millennials are working out a cooking schedule between them, but this is a huge load on Goth Millennial's shoulders.

Basically the company Medicare is out sourcing to is falling apart because treating their contract workers like shit and lying to them about things like mileage compensation when hiring them is a terrible business model in this economy on top of being an incredible shitty way to treat humans. My decision to start calling them the Asshole Agency within a week or two of starting to deal with them continues to be vindicated. The workers there need a union since the company is devoted to it's assholery, but I get why it's easier to quit.

The system is collapsing, basically. The Medicare advantage people know this and are "discussing options."

So Friday I spent hours playing phone tag with local volunteer organizations trying to get six weeks of help, but those systems are already flooded with people who are supposed to be getting Medicare advantage help, but can't because the Asshole agency isn't sending people and hasn't been for months. Still, I was hoping a short term acute need might get me in. The secular one got right back to me. They are full up. No word yet from the Catholics and the group that coordinates a bunch of protestant organizations.

I have been told over and over to try to get a church involved, but I'm not Christian and it feels weird, especially since most of my contacts with Christian strangers in the last couple decades involve aggressive proselytizers. I have Christian friends who are cool. I have no beef with the Quakers or the Unitarians or the Episcopalians or the Catholics who are trying to change things from within (Nuns on a Bus, queer friends trying to push their parish left) or what have you. I do have a beef with extremists, which most evangelicals are and the more conservative strands of catholic, orthodox, and Protestantism and there are a lot of door to door Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, etc. in my part of the country.

Look, a had late family members who were very involved in their churches who were decent people with reasonable views. I was a Queer Medievalist and I have some sexy late medieval saint pin ups to prove it mixed in with all my other art, some of which references assorted other religions, despite never having been Catholic. I have a Quaker friend closer to me than my own sister.

I just… Christian religious strangers in my house make me uncomfortable as a queer non-Christian in a country where Christo-fascists are trying to make me literally illegal.

I know it would likely be fine. I did fine and made lots of friends at University which doing a major that is mostly Catholics, Ex-Catholics, and people in the process of converting. I come from a debate culture. I can quote scripture like Satan. ;) I was in Philosophy before I dropped out and moved west and switched to History in one form or another. I can talk theology across a whole lot of denominations and the major "heresies." I just don't want to anymore and I haven't wanted to for a long time. That was long ago and far away when I wasn't so exhausted and in pain.

I should have stared looking last August or October.

I am likely fucked because I waited too long.

Sigh.

In other news, I've been really doing well on the massive number of now mostly advanced physio things I have to do every day.

Sunday I was about a third of the way in when my arm noped out of about another third of Sunday's quota. I am trying to do all the remaining ones that don't move my arm that way, but I'm not sanguine.

I forgot to do my blood work Friday. I have an afternoon pre-op appointment Monday. Let us hope I remember then. I am so tired and it all hurts so much.

[belovedisaster]

the other blog i asked about this has rightfully refused to humour me by posting these ramblings but maybe ull be more understanding: darkstalker could have been something. namely, a critique of christianity for the modern world. beyond the sympathetic depictions of an unwilling christ like in the last temptation of christ or mystic interpretations of him like in the last days of judas iscariot. no no. he could have superseded all that. because think about it. he is christ if christ were only a man; if he was as the non-trinitarians and deists believe him to be. he is born with power. he is betrayed, he dies and is reborn. but he cannot bring himself to redeem. he is too terrified. he is not the anti-christ in a traditional sense; for he IS christ, but not. when he faces qibli, the nearly-penitent thief - this dismas, who is dying, who is afraid of God's judgement as he languishes on the cross. all figuratively, of course. as he faces him, he cannot redeem him. without the divine wisdom that our christ had, he is too terrified to redeem him. so he offers to this thief all the worldly comforts he can provide - but dismas has tasted death. he has tasted hell. he is still on the cross, a moment away from expiring. dismas wants to be penitent. it is his namesake, his destiny, to be a penitent thief. dismas denies these comforts. and he becomes the anti-anti-christ. a christ without any power supernatural, no, but with wisdom and with goodwill and with a burning compassion for all the gestases of the world, the impenitent thieves, who he cannot save - for he is not christ, but the anti-anti-christ. this is what it COULD have been. darkness of dragons could have been a mystic text, valued by fransiscans and shakers and quakers and perhaps even sufis and wiccans as an insight into christology that orthodox christianity could never provide, living proof of the efficacy and wisdom of seeing christ not just as pantokrator, implacable god, but as well a man who lived his life like any other, who could have been a far different man sans the cup which the father refused to let pass him over. this is what this book, this character, could have been. but they didn't lean hard enough into the MESSIANIC aspect of either character of darkstalker (the anti-christ) or qibli (the anti-anti-christ, dismas). actually, this solves another problem - a friend of mine (sort of; a mutual, more like) hates winter's epilogue in darkness of dragons. everyone does! but if they had leaned harder into qibli's messianic shtick in particular, he could have been a dismas unto his own - a gestas turned dismas, and this transformation could have been what his epilogue contained!! do you see? this is what tui t sutherland threw away! this fame, this insight into christology, this fanservice - if only IF ONLY she had leaned a little bit harder into the messianic thing!!!!!!! anyway there's a scene in darkstalker (the book) where clearsights flying over like a valley of housing?? you know what i mean. and its talking about how the houses are all under mountains and hills. well in isaiah and revelation (and probably elsewhere, too) it's stated that at the end of days all the people of the world, rich and poor, will hide themselves under the mountains. just thought u should know. sorry for being mentally ill in your inbox.

anon i just hope you can understand i took a moment to publish this because when i received this messge at 3am and the first sentence i read was "darkstalker is a modern critique of christianity" and i remembered i'm not getting paid to run this blog i turned my phone off and went to sleepb.ut now that ive sobered and ive actually read this i want some time alone just you and me

[ausetkmt]

Introduction

For most of the past two millennia, Christian churches have not only accepted slavery, but have also participated in the slave trade and owned human property. The ethics of Christian slaveholding, however, have changed significantly. While Christians owned other Christians without controversy during the late ancient period, Christian churches began to forbid that practice over time. By the early modern period, it was considered taboo for Christians to own other Christians, although the practice sometimes continued illegally. While some individual Christians, including ministers and members of the clergy, questioned the legitimacy of slavery during the early modern period, it was not until the 18th century that a small minority of Christian churches began to assert an abolitionist stance.

Even then, it was deeply contested. For the majority of the early modern period, most Christian churches—both Catholic and Protestant—supported slavery and benefited from the institution. Even the Quakers (Society of Friends), who were leaders in the abolitionist movement, took a century to disown enslavers from their congregations. In the United States, many Christian denominations split on the issue of slavery in the 19th century, and Christian ministers and missionaries developed robust defenses of slavery based on Christian scripture and proslavery theology.

Enslaved and free Black Christians were the most ardent abolitionists, and they drew on scripture to support antislavery and abolition. While a significant amount of scholarship has debated whether Christian churches were pro- or anti-slavery, some of the most exciting research about the church and slavery has focused on why enslaved people became Christian and how they used the bureaucracy of the church to advocate for their rights and to protect their communities.

Much of this scholarship has emerged from a Latin American context, where archival records are more robust, but there are also important studies focusing on Black churches in the North America, especially the role of the African Methodist Episcopal (AME) and other African American–led churches. Within this area, scholars debate the meaning of conversion as well as the relationship between African religions and Black Christianity. Recent scholarship has emphasized that Africans and their descendants were not passive recipients of Christianity.

Rather, many enslaved men and women actively sought out baptism and used church institutions not only as a place of worship, but also as a way to protect themselves and their families. Another significant area of research has examined the relationship between the church, slavery, and race. Scholars have demonstrated how European Christians drew on categories of religious difference as they developed new racial categories. They have shown how categories like “Whiteness” and “purity of blood” were transformed within the context of slavery, as enslavers sought to reconcile slaveholding with Christian practice.

General Overviews

As Christian nations began to build empires across the Atlantic, the pope condoned the enslavement of Africans as long as certain conditions were met. A century later, Protestant nations followed Catholic lead in creating colonial slave societies in the Americas, although they developed different laws and practices related to slavery and Christianity. Blackburn 1997 provides an overview of the shifting relationship between slavery and Christian churches in European empires, while Davis 1966 is a classic study of slavery from Antiquity to the early modern period.

Over the past decades, scholars have sought to understand the history of the church and slavery from the perspectives of non-Europeans, especially Africans and Native Americans. Sanneh 2006 and Gray 2012 examine the history of Christianity in Africa, focusing on the role of African Christians. Johnson 2015 is a wide-ranging study of the relationship between African American religions (including Christianity), slavery, and colonialism, while Frey and Wood 1998 is an important survey of African American Protestantism in the British Atlantic world. Gin Lum and Harvey 2018 contains several essays relevant to the study of religion, race, and slavery. Reséndez 2016 explores the under-examined history of Native American enslavement.

Blackburn, Robin. The Making of New World Slavery: From the Baroque to the Modern, 1492–1800. London and New York: Verso, 1997. Blackburn examines the Old World foundations for American slavery. While not the focus of his study, Christian churches play a central role in creating a precedent and a legal justification for slavery in the New World.

Davis, David Brion. The Problem of Slavery in Western Culture. Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1966. The first in David Brion Davis’s classic trilogy about slavery and abolition. Davis examines the ancient history of slavery and traces the relationship between slavery and the church in Europe and the Atlantic world.

Frey, Sylvia, and Betty Wood. Come Shouting to Zion: African American Protestantism in the American South and British Caribbean to 1830. Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1998. An important survey of Afro-Protestantism in British America and the early United States. Early chapters cover the history of Catholicism in Africa and the persistence of African religious traditions under slavery in the Americas. Later chapters cover Protestant missionary efforts, and the expansion of Afro-Protestantism after the Great Awakening.

Gin Lum, Kathryn, and Paul Harvey, eds. The Oxford Handbook of Religion and Race in American History. New York: Oxford University Press, 2018. An excellent edited volume with over thirty essays, covering race and religion from the colonial period until the 2020s. Several essays are relevant for discussions of the church and slavery.

Gray, Richard. Christianity, the Papacy, and Mission in Africa. Maryknoll, NY: Orbis, 2012. A posthumously published set of essays. Gray’s overarching argument is that African Christians played a central role in initiating papal interest and involvement in sub-Saharan Africa. Several essays touch on the history of slavery and the slave trade.

Johnson, Sylvester. African American Religions, 1500–2000. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press, 2015. DOI: 10.1017/CBO9781139027038While not focusing exclusively on the church or Christianity, Johnson’s synthesis of five hundred years of African American religions is an indispensable study that traces the relationship between Black religion, slavery, racism, and colonialism within a transatlantic frame.

Lampe, Armando, ed. Christianity in the Caribbean: Essays on Church History. Kingston, Jamaica: University of the West Indies Press, 2001. A helpful overview of the relationship between the church and slavery in the Caribbean, with essays on Catholic and Protestant churches in different imperial and national settings.

Reséndez, Andrés. The Other Slavery: The Uncovered Story of Indian Enslavement in America. Boston and New York: Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2016. The history of Native American enslavement has long been under-examined, largely because indigenous slavery was illegal for most of colonial American history. This study does not focus on the church explicitly, but the relationship between Catholicism and Indian slavery is an important theme.

Sanneh, Lamin. “Christianity in Africa.” In The Cambridge History of Christianity. Edited by Stewart Brown and Timothy Tackett, 411–432. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press, 2006. Sanneh’s survey traces the changing role of Christianity—both Catholic and Protestant—in West and East Africa, focusing on the role of Christian missions and the impact of slavery and colonialism

Abolition of Slavery

Michael Guasco, Matthew Wyman-McCarthy

Subject: Atlantic History »

Date Added: 2010-05-10

Abolition of SlaveryIntroductionThe abolition of slavery in the Atlantic world occurred during the 19th century, but its origins are generally recogni...

Abolitionism and Africa

Bronwen Everill

Subject: Atlantic History »

Date Added: 2016-02-25

Abolitionism and AfricaIntroductionFrom the beginning of the organized abolition campaigns in the Atlantic world in the 1780s, antislavery campaigners...

Africa and the Atlantic World

David Northrup

Subject: Atlantic History »

Date Added: 2010-05-10

Africa and the Atlantic World Introduction Africa from Morocco to the Cape of Good Hope experienced new contacts with Europeans during the...

African American Religions

Stefania Capone

Subject: Atlantic History »

Date Added: 2011-08-26

African American Religions Introduction Since its beginnings, the study of African American religions has combined anthropological and histori...

African Religion and Culture

David Northrup

Subject: Atlantic History »

Date Added: 2010-05-10

African Religion and Culture Introduction Africa has been home to a great variety of religious and other cultural practices and beliefs, i...

[mywingsareonwheels]

Morse and Quakerism: a hopefully coherent resource for writers of “Endeavour” and “Inspector Morse” fanfic (from a non-expert former Attender at Meetings) :-)

I love the fact that even though Morse was never a Quaker himself, he grew up partly within the Society of Friends. It’s *great*.

I do see quite a few otherwise awesome fanfics make some rookie errors about Quakerism (understandably! it’s not that well-known!). I also just have huge love for the ways in which as I watch Endeavour especially, I see Constance Morse’s Quaker influence on Morse.

Disclaimer: I’ve never fully been a Quaker myself. I love and respect Quakerism, I have a few Quaker friends, and I’ve been an Attender at Quaker Meetings in the past. Ultimately, like Morse (and I suspect for much the same being-neurodivergent reasons...), my mind wanders too much for the silence to work for me. So I am neither unbiased nor an expert. But what I know and think, you can have. :-)

So! Here is a post with a few basics about Quakers, and about Morse-as-Quaker (even though he isn’t actually a Quaker ;-) ). This is specific to British Quakerism (I know there are some different varieties e.g. in the US), because that’s what I know and also where Morse comes from.

(This gets a bit long. Also inevitably I talk about religion here, specifically a religion that is rooted in Christianity.)

“Take heed, dear Friends, to the promptings of love and truth in your hearts. Trust them as the leadings of God whose Light shows us our darkness and brings us to new life.” - George Fox, the founder of Quakerism. This the first of the “advices and queries” in the book “Quaker Faith and Practice”.

1. Quakers aren’t that fussed about what you believe theologically. It’s rooted in Christianity and started as one of the radical nonconformist churches in the 17th century that emerged during the British Wars and as part of a big outpouring of new, left-wing etc. ideas. At the point Morse was a kid, I think pretty much all Quakers in Britain I think would still have been Christian to some extent, but not prescriptive about the precise belief. (These days plenty of Quakers wouldn’t describe themselves as Christian (some belong to other faiths too, some are atheists or agnostics, some are just... Quakers!), and still more would be called non-Christian by e.g. right-wing evangelicals.) Quakers do not tend to believe in hell, or in justification by faith. They generally don’t try and convert people, though they’re very welcoming to people who turn up. Religious tolerance and learning from other faiths/ways of interpreting the world is actively encouraged.

2. It’s about what you *do*, not what you believe. It’s also about making sure that you *think* about what you do, that you think about where you stand.

3. Quakers don’t have priests or ministers or sermons or hymns. Meetings aren’t structured in the way of most Christian services, you just sit together in silence and then anyone can stand and speak during Meetings if they feel “moved by the spirit” (however they individually are interpreting that) to do so. They have from the beginning been anti-authoritarian, and one reason Quakers were persecuted and frequently imprisoned for a while is that they had a tendency to not doff their hats for social “betters”. (You know the image of the Quaker with the hat on on Quaker oats cereal? that’s part of why. Keeping your hat on around a lord or bishop etc. could be a seriously brave and radical act in the 17th century and for a long while after.)

4. Quakers tend to be pacifists and generally anti-war (a lot were conscientious objectors during the First World War, but then joined the ambulance service at the Front, so a lot still died in battle as it was even more dangerous moment by moment even than being a soldier). Also extremely anti-fascist, however, which meant that they all had to make their minds up about what to do during the Second World War and different people made different choices. Those who didn’t fight generally did help in other ways.

5. Quakers were pro-gay rights even decades ago. They tend to be anti-racist, anti-xenophobic, etc., and pro-gender equality (these days, very pro-trans rights too). This doesn’t always mean that every Quaker lives up to all of this by any means! But the overall feeling of the Society of Friends as a group is this. Women have always been as free to speak up in Meetings as men.

6. Quakers are into plain speech and speaking truth to power. Affirming rather than vowing, because everything you say is meant to be true. Being honest and incorruptible. Saying the true thing even if you’re the only one saying it, and being willing to suffer for that.

7. Quakers are into compassion, and duty, and doing what you can to make your community and the world a better, kinder place, including when it’s hard. (Sometimes phrased as “creating the Kingdom of God on Earth”.)

 8. Quakers are supposed to be sensible about all of this too. A lot are teetotal and avoid illegal drug use, not out of any puritanical streak, but simply because it gets in the way of thinking clearly and doing your best and being your best self. Being willing to be self-sacrificing is good, but lacking a sense of your own well-being is not.

9. There are some other less usual things, though it’s important to note that they’re not universal. Virtue names (like Constance and Endeavour) have been a thing in the past (though mostly aren’t now). Plain dress is a tradition - that doesn’t necessarily mean always wearing plain clothes, but it does mean not standing out.

SO. Morse. I mean, some of this is going to be obvious given the above. ;-)

Morse is anti-authoritarian to an extent that sometimes fucks up his life; he refuses to engage in deference unless his respect has been thoroughly earned - so he’s not cowed by obnoxious rich and powerful people, but also has no sense of timing when it comes to speaking up to Bright or indeed Thursday. He speaks the truth as he sees it pretty much always and it’s always a huge deal when he doesn’t (e.g. when he engages in a relationship with a married woman...). He’s honest, to a fault. And non-corruptible, admirably. He’s compassionate when his temper permits, sometimes deeply so. He’s anti-homophobic, anti-ableist, anti-racist. He’s misogynist in some subtle ways but disgusted by its more blatant forms.

His sense of duty is... profound. Endless. Powerful.

He hates violence, and only engages in it in really extreme circumstances and in as non-aggressive a way as possible; despite his stint in the army he’s obviously highly reluctant to ever use the shooting skills he has. (I think extra well of Fred Thursday, who is anything but a pacifist and is obviously a veteran, for the fact that except when he’s in a really bad way, he absolutely respects Morse’s hatred of violence.)

His past teetotalism was almost certainly something he adopted in respect for his mother, and my partner pointed out to me when we chatted about this subject that Morse absolutely keeps to plain dress: he’ll wear black tie at events when he’d stand out without it, but otherwise he’s just... quietly appropriate. He has none of Jakes’s flamboyance of dress, or Strange’s homely eccentricity.

(It’s worth noting here that it’s a big fucking deal that Cyril Morse forced his son to learn to shoot a gun after Constance died. It was a big fuck-you to Cyril’s ex-wife, and I think quite blatantly meant to be one. He forced Morse to choose between disobeying his very hard to please father, or doing something he knew his beloved and recently deceased mother (for whom he was grieving) would hate. I detest Cyril Morse a lot and this is one reason why.)

How much of this is deliberately Colin Dexter and Russell Lewis (and John Thaw and Shaun Evans?) Did The Research and how much is pure excellent coincidence I don’t know! But for a man who never got into being a Quaker as a boy, and who hasn’t Attended since he was 12... Morse is really fricking Quaker in a lot of ways, including those which are most formative to his best self (duty, honesty, compassion, not being overawed by power, hating violence). Most I suspect just picked up from his mother without knowing what was Quaker and what was just her. :-)

(I note that a lot of actors in the UK are Quakers INCLUDING SHEILA HANCOCK (John Thaw’s widow). So, um. Assume some research at least of an asking-the-wife variety happened there. ;-) )

Here is one thing though that isn’t very Quaker about Morse: his complete fricking lack of any self-worth or self-compassion or self-preservation whatsoever. You’re supposed to take care of yourself so that you can carry on doing good things tomorrow! You’re supposed to love yourself as part of God’s (however you’re defining that) creation! You’re supposed to work with others to fix problems, not take everything on yourself unnecessarily!

And another: being overly concerned about honorifics and titles. I don’t know where Morse’s reluctance to call Win and Joan Thursday “Win” and “Joan” rather than “Mrs Thursday” and “Miss Thursday” comes from, but it isn’t Quakerism. ;-)

Aaaand then there’s the drinking. Poor lad. (Having compassion for addicts though *is* very Quaker (see Morse himself in season 6!); here’s hoping that his colleagues live up to that ideal in season 9... <3 )

Huge thanks to anyone who read through that! I hope it is useful or at least interesting. :-)

[orangexmachina]

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