#quoqueanalysis

[toadletthethird]

Does anyone else have a feeling that whenever they think about prisoner associations like "cool independent mastermind" come up, but the slightest notion of cage and like. bbaby :( babyy.....my babby......and like. Fall to the ground. In helplessness. Or is it just me

The difference between them makes me insane.

"I had to take it in faith" vs "I didn't think it was possible". The one with an aim and the one with a dream. The patient heart, because she will wait for any chance, and the watchful heart, because there is nothing for her to wait for, only to perceive. The smart and the open hearts. The testament of will and bliss of indecisiveness. I can't. I can't.

[toadletthethird]

Thinking about open hearts parallel for Wild and Fury

The heart of the Wild is kept further away, hidden, completely alienated in the void between her ribs, which threaten to prick it at the slightest movement in her posture. In their roundness, they remind of natural ornaments, and their sharp ends look like tree branches. Her nature is the reason for her fragility, threatening to kill her at the slightest disturbance, and only her - it's a feeling shared to another at expanse of self.

Fury's heart, on the other hand, is thrown forward by thick layers of her meat for a dramatic display – "See the horrors you've wrought upon my flesh!" So are the ribs, which once served as a shield with their correct straight shape, but have now become ridiculously useless. All her being signalises of past rightness, but now she's nothing more than an exposed feeling turned to weapon the other.

[toadletthethird]

Playing Slay the princess is such a rewarding experience, because, due to how fundamental its themes are, you can see references for it everywhere you want them to be

Like sometimes life just throws you around but you keep the half-smile, thinking "Maybe change is indeed an adversary to be fought, but what can I do other than enjoy the battle. Maybe fate is a prison for our spirits, but it's only the fear that makes us caged and the resilience that gives us the strength to act. Maybe death is an inevitable nightmare, but I'm sure it will all make sense in the end, in my own moment of clarity"

[toadletthethird]

Do you think vessels sometimes look at damsel and think, "This is what I could have been if the world didn't mark me as a monstrosity before I even began to live. This is something I always yearned for but never deserved. I should have been her but I never was and never will be"

[toadletthethird]

About Skeptic's hypocrisy or how rationality leads to bias

The most rational decision is the most reasonable one. Reasons are powered by arguments. Arguments are personal. Inevitably, in ambiguity of the world the most rational decision is only the most argumented decision visible to a person. With enough skill any decision can be argumented. Naturally, different people will find different points to be more relevant. And one's own conclusions will always look more rational, because they're able to see the arguments behind them, while it's hard to see the reasoning behind others. So "acting rationally" often turns out to be acting not in the most logical way, but in the most personally argumented way.

That's the card trick: logical -> rational -> reasonable -> argumented -> personal. And to think that logical appeared from avoiding personal. Wow. What a trap.

So when Smitten kills the player, it's a condemnatory act, since there's no reasoning (visible to Skeptic) to do so. But when he does that in Prisoner, it's a fully rational act, because there are reasons to do so, and everyone must understand it sooner or later.

And ehh. apart from this intellectual talk. it's also about losing agency. Skeptic appears when in the first chapter the player feels that they are being controlled by the narrator and is ready to die to do what they reasonably decided to do. In HEA TLQ is deprived of agency similarly because of Smitten. It should have hit a nerve, right? I'd argue that to value personal freedom is a core belief for Skeptic. Of course he's judgmental. BUT. In Prisoner's chapter killing the player IS affirmation of personal freedom. So he unconsciously becomes what he hates, in a way. His character is so circular, really.............hi cage....................

[toadletthethird]

Hear me out.... Skeptunist as two weird people who equally overrationalize social interactions to the point of loosing sense of what any social affection is really about try to act normally with each other's terms. But none of them have normal terms to begin with.

Because they both overcomplicate life to match their expectations. One always suspects secrets and the other awaits for tricks. Both end up acting against the morals, because they believed they were lied to. Like. They're similar in so many ways they wouldn't want to acknowledge.

And it was said before about how skeptic might like opportunist as a puzzle to solve and therefore be able to actually see through his facades. But. I think opportunist might give skeptic very helpful reality check too. He would try to mirror him to get on his side just to be met with devastated look. "Why would you think I thought that? Do I look like I think that? Do I act accordingly?" - and opportunist can swear he hears intense quiz music. Skeptic might appear too straightforward and harsh, even though at his core he deeply cares about others, due to him trying to make everything as effective as possible. And he might ignore others feelings if he finds them unreasonable. And he might act wrongly if he sees he's actions as justifiable. And. And I think opportunist can help him notice that. Just by agreeing and reflecting.

Like I think many of their actions can be alike since they both very "goal over the means" type. It's just that skeptic falls into that unconsciously out of misunderstanding people and opportunist does that fully knowingly. So opportunist could help skeptic notice his wrongdoings and skeptic could actually explain why oppy's actions are wrong. Somehow.

(little update: Or maybe they'll just drive each other into a moral bottom. If they both focus on efficiency, opportunist IS the one to show skeptic that it's worth it no matter how it affects others. For "the truth" aka "the win!!" in question)

I don't know. I don't know. Rotating them in my head.

[toadletthethird]

What if we look at prisoner's routes as a metaphor for generational trauma

To leave with the severed head is to cut ties with the roots. It's painful and cruel, most of the close ones won't understand the decision to leave such a big part of yourself behind, - but it's her plan and she's sure of it. It's her life now. No turning back.

To wait with the prisoner is to overgrow the heritage. She saw leaving as a weakness she never could afford. That's fine - she'll wait. She'll see this place fall apart and she'll build something new on these ruins. She finds fortitude in resilience, but the responsibility for the restoration of her homeland lingers like heavy chains on her hands. It's freedom but with a bitterness of debt.

To kill the prisoner is to fall into the cycle. She never overcame her family burdens. She knew the pattern and decided there was nothing to do but to follow. And oh how well she'll return the favour to the next generation. Look me in the eyes and tell me you don't see drowned grey as an old widow in some distant godforsaken village.

And the cage is about giving up. Her last hope failed. And she needs rest as long as life could give. She'll stay not to hope for the better or to fight for the worst, but to save the pain from trying any further. It's the only thing she knows. There's no power in selfhood or in adherence, so she chooses the indulgence of detachment. She is that distant relative with big sorrowful eyes and the quietest voice, who saw the most. There's no leaving for her now. She's shattered to the core. At least she thinks so.

Does. Does this make sense.

[toadletthethird]

Y'know how kids sometimes ask something meaningless over and over again. And sometimes they choose "Do you love me?". And sometimes, after dozens of "yes, I do", they get "no - is that what you want to hear?". And y'know. Something breaks. And you can see they won't ask that ever again. And I think. I think this is what deconstructed damsel is about. In a way.

[toadletthethird]

What about Razor's heart

Thanks for the question!

If the heart always represents the essence of the princess and therefore the core feeling that builds her (which is my main theory for now), I think Razor's open heart shows the simplicity of her nature that manifests in a fun-seeking game of blades.

She makes her heart seen out of the wish to feel, to express more than her body could. Steel bones are her implement to affect. They encircle the heart as something most important to it, and, paradoxically, the blades don't seem to hurt it, because she never saw fallacies in her actions. They look like a comfortable suit for needs of the heart. And her cartilage is as steel as ribs, whenever it's gone in Fury and Wild, what might mean the immutability of her character, like there's no place for further change, or the inaccessibility of her sensual part, like there's no way to hurt her feelings that would matter.

In No way out the second she starts questioning what she and TLQ are, the blades degrade. The meaning of her existence disappears with the means for it. If she's not the "one to hurt you", she's nothing but the thrill she felt. And so only her heart stays.

[toadletthethird]

It's actually ironic how far away Skeptic is from the skepticism of Hellenistic period (aka the canonical one)

He fully applies to the first part of definition given by Sextus Empiricus: "Scepticism is an ability, or mental attitude, which opposes appearances to judgements in any way whatsoever..." - and he too distinguishes the appearance of real perceived objects, that shouldn't be denied, and the subjective judgement about it, which should. As his character is built after a betrayal of subjectivity (distrust to the narrator and the princess), he clings to the objectiveness as something understandable enough to rely on. Oh and also σκέψις can be translated as examination so it's a funny little throwback to being-locked-in-chains situation

BUT he completely misses out the second, perhaps the most important part: "...with the result that, owing to the equipollence of the objects and reasons thus opposed, we are brought firstly to a state of mental suspense and next to a state of 'unperturbedness' or quietude"

The antic skepticism is about finding serenity in detachment after seeing the ungraspable multiplicity of truth. As opposed, our Skeptic tries to find ease in a single understandable system....which doesn't exist. So he constantly stuck in attempts to solve the unsolvable rather than accept things how they are.

If we're being honest, Cage is more canonically skeptic than Skeptic.

The closest he was to this ideal is MOC. But y'know, he wasn't quite at peace there. Which says a lot.

(Oh and there's the story of how Pirrho saw his teacher drowning in a swamp and walked by without helping, feeling nothing because of how cool his skepticism was - remember the grey and the den, huh?)

Saw a beautiful take somewhere here about how every voice is built with a little unfinished piece. When Opportunist will end up at the top, what's then? When Stubborn's toughest fight will end, what's then? All their worldviews are driven by some inner need, but it often looks like they never could satisfy it, or if they did, their existence would become meaningless. And maybe it's what it is for Skeptic. When he reaches the truth in all its greatness, will he be able to let go? Can he stop constantly craving for a deeper meaning? Will he understand that everything at once in its summation is the truth, controversial as it is? Can he believe?

[toadletthethird]

Can we have cage for that ask game? :3

Ohhh thanks for the question! but I might be the bad person to ask this, because I love to talk about her wayyy too much

Send me a character and I'll list:

1) favourite thing about them

I love her so much from narrative standpoint for things she can represent. Her chapter can be a great statement about trauma response that is often overlooked. Fight or flight are great, of course, but freeze just hits home.

In prisoner's chapter her one resort of hope was lost. She made a plead to be saved in the act of decapitation and was unheard. Such a wish broken. To put everything into something to not work out is so painful. Especially the second time. And new attempts would just remind about the helplessness - disappointment is not an easy wound to heal - so it's easier to embrace it. To find meaning in your pain. It is cruel and absurd and undeserved, but it is yours. You can find beauty in its horrors. And it makes it significant. It gives it at least some little sense it needs to not be so painfully pointless. To her, at least. It's her way to survive. (Oh how I love overrationalisation as a way to cope)

And I like how it's shown that it's hurtful not only to her but to people around too. She is not violent herself, but by not rejecting this harmful behaviour she lets the circle of violence to continue. And it what happens when you fall into a mindset like this. You get so focused on endurance that you fail to see the aftermath of your actions. It can manifest as neglect, direct danger or, most often, the suffering your close ones feel watching you. And there's no exit from the cycle but to acknowledge how harmful your coping is. It's not her fault, but it is so. (Interestingly, while the Allegory of the cage ending is exactly like that, No Exit is about bringing someone on the same level as you.... Becoming the same danger you were afraid of..... and to project that fearful worldview onto someone, subconsciously.....I think it can have interesting connotations to real life)

I believe her story can be beautiful allegory to withstanding any traumatic event that gives you no other choice than to accept it. You know: grief, chronic illness, abuse, depression, etc. You name it

Also, there is a reading of prisoner-cage as an allegory to self harming behaviour in my main account. I can't say if it's as good as I remember it to be (I physically can't take a second look at anything I do until a decade passes - yeah, it's a curse thing. never trust fairies), but it's still very dear to me.

2) the least favourite thing about them

I'm a simple girl...... The only complaint I have is deleted dialogue from prisoner........

3) Favourite line

Of course it's "Look at us go. Aren't we beautiful?"

But honourable mention is her head pun because.......I love puns. And "What? Like the answer's obvisous? Like it's staring me right in the face? Just like you?" because it was so funny to find

4)brotp

Cage and HEA would find a lot in common. I like to make all damsel and prisoner based vessels friends. And I love parallels

Also with thorn and PATD because of the "were in terrible situations and survived" similarity. I just like to imagine them all happy together, you know

5) OTP

I....I might like her with broken........I just really like broken in this chapter

6) notp

Nothing there

7) random headcanon

She and Prisoner give me insane Antiquity vibes for no particular reason. So I like to imagine Cage speaking ancient Greek (a lot of linker words make this language sound extremely cycle like. And sometimes prepositions start somewhere and stretch a looooong way only to remind of themselves again in the end of the sentence - very chain like) and Prisoner speaking Latin (very clear to use intellectual language). Just for fun.

8) unpopular opinion

My hierarchy for cage's endings is: No Exit, The Riddle of Steel, Allegory of the Cage

Yeah, I'm so shameful about that, but.... I love tragedies..... And I don't like when the solution to the puzzle is beyond the puzzle....... I'm so glad happy ending for her exists, but it's not for me

Oh and I like the possibility of free will ending. It's horrendous, no doubt, but I'm glad that there is such a choice available. After the horror of withdrawal we can experience the horror of freedom. Absurd of selfexpression. There is something about it

9) Song I associate with them

"I bet on losing dogs" by mitski simply because she is my baby :(

10) favourite image

Oh I love every shot from this chapter. But the dance sequence particularly

(Also there is a very particular shot when you strike her in the heart and her body, while still standing, holds the blade so firmly but I'm afraid it's too risky for tumblr and I'm not in a risky mood hahah)

That's all!

[toadletthethird]

Pin post!!

#quoqueart - if you want to see serious drawings of mine

#quoquesketches - for less serious doodles

#quoquegiggles - for even less serious words

#quoqueanalysis - for words that are a bit more serious

#quoquewip - for everything behind the curtain

#quoqueasks - asks! I love talking

(these include only the recent posts - I'll add the more ancient ones from other blogs later)

Anyway, here are some fun facts.

* I hate naming things, but it appears I need at least some order here. So. Quoque is "also" in Latin, the word that I love simply out of it's funny pronunciation. It sounds similar to how we describe frogs' voices in my native language. So it's eh. Funny to me. Let it be a nickname for the internet. But you can address me any way you like really

* These account names came from Pumpkin toadlets - my favourite type of frogs. They are so me

* And the "giggles are in the golden mean..." appeared because in the same day my last blog was deleted my file about Aristotle' ethics got crushed. I've never been friends with technologies haha. And since "giggles are over" and "giggles are not over" the Aristotle' golden mean seemed perfect. Aand the phrase "giggles are over" is also from my native language

[toadletthethird]

I'm at a loss for words - this is so beautifully written!

And I think it gives a perfect retrospective on what Deco-damsel is. To fully understand the horror of her existence you have to look at it from the perspective of experience she was deprived of. The dread of complete emptyness that she resulted in goes along with the tragedy of how much there were \ could have been in her. And it's seen the best in comparison to other vessels. and GOSH how they would feel it. Considering they are vessels of perception at their core and are finished as personalities by SM' definition and Deco is the most if not the only unfinished one, deprived of any meaning life should have, comprehension of the other should gift.

Which makes me think of the Stranger… To be everything is to be nothing. Too many fragments at once held no value by their changability - she was also deprived of sense, of characterization. They are quite similar in that. Would Stranger try to help her? Would she have taught her to find peace within herself only to realize that there was nothing in her? There are no notes in her soul that need to be tuned for harmony, there is no music in her as such.... But maybe there is beauty in the silence of the void she contains....ohhh I don't know. It's something worth to explore.

And thinking about Deco' relations to HEA honestly gives me shivers. But the way you described Thorn's thoughts about her is so true - Thorn is born out of complexity the world gave to her so she is alive in her versatility and unique by it. As opposed to the Deco who is destroyed by its singularity. They both met the ambiguity of the world, but only one was able to offer ambiguity in return.

Thank you for such a wonderful addition to my post. It really made me reflect in the best sense of the word. Gosh. Deconstructed damsel my beloved. How right you are about her.

Do you think vessels sometimes look at damsel and think, "This is what I could have been if the world didn't mark me as a monstrosity before I even began to live. This is something I always yearned for but never deserved. I should have been her but I never was and never will be"