#randland

[squirrelwrangler]

What is Wheel of Time about

Book or TV show?

The book series is 14 very thick fantasy novels with a very large cast (of which when broken down has more named female characters than male) and multiple plot lines. It helped to inspire A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones - but it is far less bleak and has way less sexual violence (a easy accomplishment). If you’re also familiar with the Dune movies/tv shows and Lord of the Rings, you’ll also see parallels. And like a lot of fantasy it has SF elements. And if you like Dreamworlds and Alternative Realities and glimpses of the past and such, yeah. Written in the 90s by an old cis straight white guy, but one that was in many ways progressive for his time, so your mileage will vary. There’s a post that answers almost exactly this same question that I wrote years ago that goes into this a little more.

But what is it actually about? It’s called Wheel of Time because the central premise is the world operates as a long circle of time with narrative-driven reincarnation. The book/show world is both the inspiration of all of our real world legends and our far far future after magic is discovered thousands of years in the future and a few calamities have leveled it. What that means is there’s a lot of Easter Eggs and familiarities if you know your mythology, in particular Arthuriana. For instance, a character hangs from a tree and sacrifices an eye to gain knowledge, has a pair of ravens symbolically important, and their personality is also very trickster-like. At no point are they called Odin, but if you know Norse Mythology, you go “oh yeah this guy inspires stories about Odin or is his reincarnation”. There’s a lot of vague Jungian and Vedic inspiration if you can’t tell.

Okay, really.

3,000 years ago was a high-tech peaceful society where some people could do magic and thus worked as public servants, very utopian. But then Evil Personified was unsealed, monsters and war unleashed, some of the wizards turned evil, long war was fought. One of the most powerful wizards, a man nicknamed Dragon, seals away both the Dark One and the top evil henchmen wizards - but it was a patch job. Evil monsters still around, people still pledge loyalty to cause evil. And as a counterattack during the sealing, the Dark One is able to place a sickness on the male half of the Power which forces every male wizard then and in the future to go mad. In their madness they destroy the world. Thousands of haywire magical nukes would do that. Female side of wizard Power is still okay, so only female wizards left. They help rebuild the world; societies that re-emerge are thus far more matriarchal than the real world. Men would can use magic are hunted down before they can go mad and start hurting themselves and others. People are understandably Terrified of Male Wizards. Only female wizards allowed. These female Aes Sedai, their Wizard Vatican City, and their factions are a large portion of the plot of both book and tv show. Do you want to see a lot of middle-aged women in gorgeous costumes fighting with magic and scheming? This is the show for you.

So, 3,000 years later, the Pattern that controls-and is created by- the Wheel of Time (lot of weaving and loom metaphor in the metaphysics) decides that the Dragon needs to be reincarnated along with a couple other key people in order to have another Last Battle against the Dark One to hopefully start a new turn of the Wheel/new age (and on evil’s side here’s the chance to reset things in their favor or break the Wheel itself).

Moiraine, an Aes Sedai, learns through a prophecy that the Dragon has just been reborn, so she spends the next twenty years trying to find them before evil does. There’s a long list of accumulated prophecies about the Last Battle and the people and events around it people are also worried about. Lot of plotting as everyone thinks they have the best idea of how to do it. Again, in comparison to Game of Thrones where almost everyone was scheming to win the Iron Throne and ignoring the White Walker invasion, think of it as here all the rulers know about the White Walkers coming and they’re fighting wars with each other to be the one to lead armies against the White Walkers because only their plan will work.

A common joke is that this very very long book series would be much shorter if characters properly talked and coordinated with each other. Teamwork is a central theme (both when you have it and when you don’t).

In an isolated community (think The Shire but instead of hobbits it’s a bunch of tax dodging Appalachian hillbillies or Elizabethan yeoman) Moiraine finds five young people that the Pattern has singled out as Very Powerful Main Characters. Okay, she thinks, one of them is the Dragon Reborn.

Problem is, none of them want to do the Magic Quest Protagonist Plot Stuff; they know that sucks. Moiraine has to get them to do it anyway. Our Gandalf figure is a middle aged queer woman (with a strictly platonic soulmate bodyguard) who has trouble with sharing the whole truth to other people (she is magically forbidden from outright lying) stuck herding a bunch of cats named Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Egwene. And later Nynaeve. By the end of book one/season one we know (but the rest of the world doesn’t) who the Dragon Reborn is - and that they need their friends and others by their side to have a chance of winning the Last Battle. All of them are main characters. Yes, the Dragon Reborn is Main Character- but more than one book in those 14 has barely any page-time dedicated to them. Plot is a Tapestry; not a line. That’s the least spoilerly explanation that I can give.

The tv show is about to start season three in a week (which will be mostly plot from book four, arguably the best book). Each season is eight episodes. Covid and recasting issues meant that the finale of season one had to be reworked and the first book was always the weakest with an infamously weird/weak ending. The show obviously had to change a lot form the monster book series, but it has imho the spirit of the books and often improved them. The casting is diverse- properly so instead of just tokenism- which pissed off a lot of racist fans. That and changes from books and that the main showrunner is a gay man means that there’s a vocal online faction of haters. My two main fantasy series, formative in fact, are Wheel of Time and the Silmarillion/Tolkien. I ADORE the Wheel of Time tv show but I could barely watch any of Rings of Power. Make of that what you will.

Hopefully, anon, this was helpful.

[iliiuan]

I realized in the back and forth with cannoli, a farm in Randland is worth ten silk dresses. This exchange rate fascinates me, in no little part because it is completely opposite from how much things cost in my world. Ten silk dresses won't even pay my rent for a month, much less suffice as down payment on real estate, even farmland. But in preindustrial society, especially with declining population, that's a perfectly reasonable pricing scheme.

[uri59]

Thinking about that one time Amazon paid a lot of online articles to promote the wot show season 1 and every single one had the same paragraph about Moiraine being the protagonist searching for The Dragon yada yada, who's the Dragon? 👀 And 1 of them called the world Randland (after naming the whole cast and who they played, including of course Josha playing Rand 🤭)

[markantonys]

hands down the funniest and most underrated ta'veren effect in WOT is rand randomly causing mass spontaneous marriage just by wandering through a given town. that should have continued to be a thing for the whole series, not just TDR. i want wedding carnage all over the continent, dammit!

[darkkbluee]

As a fan of the WoT books, I did find the first season of the TV series odd. They took out too many parts and I don't even remember if Thom was even there?

The set and costume were stunning tho, so I decided to give season 2 a chance. And I'm glad I did.

Season 2 changed my thought about the TV series. That it wasn't an 'adaptation' of the books. No, the WoT TV series is 'inspired by' the WoT books.

It stands on its own.

Once I made that difference, I have to agree, the TV series is excellent. Beautiful visuals, character development in every scene. 11/10 will watch the next season. 20/10 will recommend it to everyone I meet.

Tldr, books are Randland, TV series is Egweneland ft. Moraine. And that's okay.

[aenhanse]

people weren't lying those crossroads of twilight can really slog

[squirrelwrangler]

Exactly.

And then you remember that the channeling ability can be genetic and thus a fair number of the male channelers that the Reds would later have to gentle would have been their brothers and nephews

Istg one of the most harrowing implications of 3x04 is that once the One Power was corrupted, the female Aes Sedai were forced to kill many of their brother Aes Sedai who succumbed to the Madness

[caracarnn]

𝐌𝐔𝐒𝐄 𝐒𝐓𝐑𝐄𝐒𝐒𝐎𝐑 𝐂𝐇𝐄𝐂𝐊𝐋𝐈𝐒𝐓

original can be found here! x

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tagged by: @forwardlion tagging: @luckhissoul @malumxsubest @adversitybloomed @asoulunbound

[demenior]

I'm reading one of the WoT companion books for the first time and in the section about the Age of Legends it specifically has the note "birth control methods were extremely reliable and without side effects" 😔 rip. we really lost so much in the War of Power and the Breaking.

[definitely-not-an-alb]

Culture: achieved.

The time for Blorbos has come.

[squirrelwrangler]

There’s a long rant in my head about why keeping Siuan’s survival and subsequent book arc would had sucked for fans and it’s not because of the maligned Gareth Bryne romance. That’s not the problem. It’s Egwene, Egwene’s narrative role, and how Egwene’s hero moments deny the same to a living Siuan.

[iliiuan]

I love how everything Moiraine thinks about Verin is wrong. Even when she's right, she's still wrong.

"Moiraine sometimes wondered if they [Brown Sisters] were really aware of what was going on in the world, or even immediately around them." -Verin is 100% aware of everything that happens, both in her immediate vicinity and in the larger world.

"Even Verin and Serafelle would leap on him [Rand] the way they would a scarlet adder in a nursery." (Siuan said this, but Moiraine obviously agrees.) -Verin is a primary protector of Rand al'Thor.

(Verin starts calculating how many people could be tainted by the Shadar Logoth dagger.) "Another danger confronts us, and she sounds as if it is a puzzle in a book. Light, the Browns truly are not aware of the world at all." -Verin seems more aware than either of you exactly how dangerous Padan Fain and the dagger are.

"Verin, with her nose still buried in her notes, noticed none of it." -She noticed, all right. She simply didn't let you know that she noticed.

"She thinks only of the knowledge, Moiraine thought wonderingly. The culmination of the direst prophecy the world knows, perhaps the end of the world, and she cares only about the knowledge. But she is still dangerous, for that." -Verin does care about the knowledge, though which knowledge is another issue. But she cares more about defeating the Dark One.

[toastandjamie]

To be fair there is little to no representation of polyamory in media point blank so the fact that the girls aren’t actively trying to kill each other and Rand doesn’t play them off eachother like it’s a competition for his time and affection is more or less the gold standard here lmao

to this day rand and min-aviendha-elayne is still the healthiest depiction of polyamory i have ever seen

[highladyluck]

Do you think the show will keep Tuon? I think she's a tough pill for people to swallow because the Seanchan are *slavers* and they've made them pretty irredeemable in the show. Tbh it was hard even in the books to think that Mat will join the empire and not reform their slavery ways

I don't think they'll cut her, since a) Mat got a tragic child abuse backstory that will play interestingly with hers and b) the *Finn are still happening. I think the question is whether she'll be a love-to-hate-you villain (like our ortolan-munching Whitecloak guy or Renna) or get the hate-to-love-you antihero glow-up that so many other characters are getting.

There's a possibility she'll be Renna Redux. I hope they don't do that (or they go that direction at first and then complexify it) but the show has given so many characters, Darkfriends and Light-side antiheroes alike, major likeability/memorability upgrades. The Generic Darkfriends from Rand and Mat's roadtrip in Book 1 became personable, compelling Dana. Book!Liandrin was genuinely unsympathetic and had massive loser energy, but the show and Kate Fleetwood made her complex and engaging. Between Shohreh and the smart writing choices (emphasizing the thematic connection with Min!!!) I know that the ranks of people who appreciate Elaida's Shakespearean-ass character arc are going to grow. Seeing them handle Elaida well- like, Elaida is SUCH a character concept, a seer who misinterprets all her own prophecies and doesn't realize it, fucking incredible- gives me a lot of hope for them understanding what makes Tuon interesting/infuriating and preserving/growing that.

Tuon is similar to Elaida in many ways- thematically important, funny on a meta level, great at foiling main characters/causing problems/being a catalyst, very wrong and convinced she's right, sincere, batshit. But Elaida basically has a rise and fall, whereas Tuon has a fall and then rise, and it's much easier to do the first to an antagonist than the second.

I think they're going to have to go places that RJ feared to tread, and make Tuon fall harder than just getting kidnapped & dragged halfway across Altara. If I had to place bets, I'd put money on her getting an accidental channeling arc, but that they somehow put off broader Seanchan consequences until during or after the Last Battle. Maybe it comes out in the middle of the Last Battle and the Randland Seanchan get the same kind of breaking as the Aiel, but at the least convenient time, and only a rump end of forces led by channeler Tuon come in to save the day. I'd have the classic Seanchan just sit out the Last Battle/fuck off to mainland Seanchan rather than having them join the Shadow. Compensate for the loss of the greater part of the Seanchan army by unfucking some of the Sharans instead, the entire army of evil dark-skinned slavers always pissed me off. Two birds one stone.

Part of what makes Tuon live rent-free in my head forever is that her story is forever frozen, forever in potentia. She could do anything, go in any direction. I think her potential energy is part of why she's so polarizing and why she's so interesting. So I want them to keep her unresolved and mysterious for as long as possible- that's part of her entire deal- but I don't think they can afford to do it forever like RJ did. So I want them to drag it out, but I think they do need to develop her more, while not totally destroying the strategic usefulness of the Seanchan for the Last Battle, because that's a core thematic element too.

[markantonys]

when you're reading wheel of time and it starts wandering off into clothing descriptions, worldbuilding infodumps, and detailed backstories of every tertiary character present in the scene

[asha-mage]

Randland World Leaders - Do they know the price of a banana apple?

Morgase Trakand - No, but she could get it in the right neighborhood if asked. Understands the economic influences that affect prices and knows roughly where Andor's sit at any given time.

Elayne Trakand - Pre world travels? Not with a gun to her head. She wouldn't give a false guess though, just avoid the question rather then admit ignorance. Post world travels she knows the prices of most common food stuffs for Andor and all of it's immediate neighbors with scary accuracy.

Rand al'Thor - Yes. One of the first things Rand does after taking over Tear is familiarize himself with tax policies and food production and grain trade. He is a farm boy at heart and has Powerful Opinions on cost of living.

Perrin Abyara - Nope. He thinks he does, but in reality he names the price of apples he paid aka, pre adventure. He knows that prices in general have gone up but if you tried to sell him an apple he would get offended when you wouldn't take the same price he paid prior to half a dozen kingdoms going to war, and the endless summer choking out trade. He wouldn't say anything though and just assume you where trying to squeeze a few coins out of him because he's dressed like some 'idiot lord'.

Faile- Yes. She knows exactly the price of apples grown in the Two Rivers and knows that it's out competing the neighboring provinces apples by a good margin. Does this have something to do with her threatening local officials to ensure they don't try to hard to compete with Two Rivers food prices? Maybe, but it's nothing Perrin can prove she did. HE dosen't know the price of apples.

Siuan Sanche - Apples? No. Fish? Yes. Siuan could tell you the price of every fish in the market at Tar Valon and what will be cheaper next month based on yields out of the south. This is not for economic reasons, it's because she still eats fish for 3 meals out of 4.

Berelain - Nope. She has economic advisers who she pays to know that. Her skill and perk points all went into Foreign Policy and Espionage, not Economics.

Alliandre - The price of apples keeps Alliandre up at night staring at her bedroom ceiling, fearing for her life. It turns out having a religious tyrant running rampart around your kingdom burning down farms and causing skyrocketing inflation by assaulting trade routes and exacting inconsistent 'tithes' on merchants will make you VERY familiar with the economic conditions of the common man. Every time the price of apples goes up a silver mark, Alliandre makes her food taster check her meals an extra time.

Tuon - Yes. Always good to know the price of local cyanide containing fruits, just in case.

Elaida - "It's an apple Alviarin? How much can it cost? 10 gold marks?"