#ravinstill extended family lore

[scandalouslamb]

Ravinstill Extended Family Lore: The Fall of the House of Ravinstill

Extended Family Tree for Easy Reference

A Ravinstill Death Recap Within My Worldbuilding (listed in chronological order)

Albanus Ravinstill (Maximinius' brother and Felix's grandfather), died of unspecified illness

Gaia Ravinstill (Albanus' youngest child), shot in the head during an assassination attempt on Pres. Ravinstill's life (pre-war)

Kassandra Ravinstill (Gaia's infant daughter), suffocated to death underneath her mother's body

Creusa Ravinstill (Albanus' wife), died of unspecified health complications. Grief and stress weakened her.

The following died in the same bombing which was also an assassination attempt on Pres. Ravinstill's life (during the war):

Junius Ravinstill (Albanus' oldest child) & his wife Cythera & their children: Junius (II) & Tullius (Marius' older brothers) Sabina Ravinstill (Albanus' older daughter) & her husband Turnus & their daughter Lucretia (Gnaeus' older sister)

Ascanio Ravinstill (Albanus' younger son) & his wife Metaneira (Felix's parents), died due to rebels bombing the Capitol which hit their house (during the war)

Felix Ravinstill, died in a tragic car crash orchestrated by Coriolanus Snow

Gnaeus Ravinstill, murdered by the supporters of his cousin Marius who mistakenly believed that he had been responsible for the death of Felix, a misunderstanding orchestrated by Coriolanus Snow

Marius Ravinstill, murdered by the supporters of his late cousin believing that he had ordered Gnaeus' death (see fic)

Maximinius Ravinstill, died of old age

[meekmedea]

Regarding your recent posts about Felix & Clemensia & their children, I do have to ask --- how is Pres. Ravinstill and Endymion Dovecote as grandparents? And, when their first child, Selene, was born, how much interest did that spark from the media, since she's the first (?) great-grandniece of Pres. Ravinstill and the first grandchild of the Energy Secretary?

Hmm...those are very good questions I haven't thought of before.

I like to imagine the children are all very doted on by their grandparents. The grandparents watch them if Clemensia & Felix are out on a date night or for some occasion that's adults only.

President Ravinstill is a this stern, but also very doting great-granduncle to the children. At times, he has a bit of this 'competitive' streak.

Like one of the children will offhandedly say "公公 (referring to Endymion) did [insert activity/thing]"

And he'll be like, "Hmmm."

So if the Endymion and Aelia had went on a short trip with the family. Pres. Ravinstill will now step things up and go on a longer trip to a 'better' place.

(Poor Endymion has no idea he's beefing with the President)

Media interest-wise when Selene was born:

Surprisingly, not that much. Outside of official appearances, Selene gets a fairly normal childhood.

First grandchild for the Dovecotes, yes. And the media extend the same courtesy that Clemensia had growing up to Selene.

The reason Clemensia gets few media appearances when growing up is because of Endymion. There's a deal (order) that unless approved by him, nothing was getting published about his daughter. Sort of to give her a sense of normalcy growing up.

Endymion has got a good number of friends everywhere. And he's a Dovecote (sort of based off this post on Dovecote family lore) and the possible reputation that follows is kind of funny.

It probably also helps that Selene isn't the first great-grandniece/nephew for Pres.Ravinstill (I like to imagine the Ravinstill family as very, very expansive), so the attention there is a little less.

[scandalouslamb]

Ravinstill Extended Family Lore: The Deaths of Gnaeus and Marius

For the uninformed, Marius and Gnaeus Ravinstill are (in my worldbuilding) Felix's two older cousins. Marius is the eldest surviving Ravinstill cousin and the heir presumptive.

I have for the longest time just handwaved their deaths as a part of a confusing mess that happened in the aftermath of Felix's death via Coriolanus orchestrated car crash, but I have recently been privately rotating them in my head:

I have always known that Coriolanus uses Felix's death to try and turn Marius and Gnaeus against each other.

After giving this some thought, I don't think it works against the Ravinstill cousins, but it does work on their supporters.

Marius' position as Ravinstill heir has always been tenuous in that Gnaeus has always been the better pick. There are a lot of people who would support Gnaeus if he wasn't himself supporting Marius.

I don't think it would take much to convince Marius' supporters that Gnaeus is a threat. The ones that are solely loyal to Marius and see Gnaeus as some encroaching relative who's bullying the Ravinstill heir

Maybe, Coriolanus helps them along with rumors and by slipping something into their communications, but there was always going to be suspicion

Marius and Gnaeus are probably dealing with their great-uncle's grief and their own (and an upcoming state funeral), but when a call comes saying that Gnaeus needs to meet with a few advisors about something, well, it doesn't raise that many questions, Gnaeus was always the one with a better head for politics

And it doesn't matter if Marius' supporters decide to call him themselves after the deed is done or if Marius gets impatient waiting to pick out what coffin they're putting their younger cousin in, he shows up to whatever office or home that Gnaeus has been called to either way (although I lean more towards the latter)

Marius is more impulsive than the average Ravinstill, but I think he's stunned into inaction by the dead body of the cousin that he tried to replace two brothers with. EDIT: Marius is presented with the sight of Gnaeus’ severed head

I think he leaves that night and retires home numb, but the next day, he jumps into action

And what does it say, that as the news breaks, he doesn't seem to contact his great-uncle?

I think Marius purges his own followers and then waits. I don't think he really knows what he's waiting for, but well, Gnaeus was always the better schemer. Marius just avenged his cousin, and he knows that Gnaeus had a lot of friends too. Marius has gotten rid of anyone who would want to protect him.

He's not in the right headspace, so I think Marius greets whoever comes for hims with a smile.

...

I wrote Pater Patriae before I fine-tuned this idea, so this isn't entirely intentional, but what does it say that Max doesn't know the exact details of what exactly transpired? He knows the same version of the story that the public hears: after the death of one grandnephews, the other two pointed fingers at one another and died. I hate that man (I love him and show it by destroying his life)

Fun fact: I was thinking that maybe Marius' supporters might bring him Gnaeus' head, but I don't think they're putting that much work in (to cut off a guy's head). This was to further the fact that this thought I've been rotating started off as a reference to Gnaeus' namesake Pompey (Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus) who sought asylum from Julius Caesar in Egypt and was then beheaded because the Egyptians feared him taking control and also sought to win Caesar's favor.

Anyway, I thought the killing someone for someone else's approval was enough of a reference. Beheading didn't fit Capitolites doing a semi-quiet little murder...

EDIT: I changed my mind. Canonically, (in my canon,) Gnaeus Ravinstill’s head gets cut off and presented to Marius.

I should make a death recap for my Ravinstill extended family. I think it would emphasize the tragedy and would be fun for me. Anyway, Marius and Gnaeus get a tag now! I used to just lump them in with the ravinstill extended family lore tag!

[scandalouslamb]

How I Characterize Felix Ravinstill

I once told a friend that every single detail we have about Felix Ravinstill could be interpreted multiple ways that they essentially told me nothing. There's also very little information about him in the book to work with. When I write Felix, I try to base my characterization on whatever I can squeeze out of canon, but when presented with choices (which is basically all the time), I pick what's more interesting to me. Obviously, these are just my readings and interpretations.

(@coryo and @persephoneprice since you two expressed interest, I'm tagging you. Also some of these points will be familiar to those who frequent this blog.)

The Basics

Before I get into the true explanation, I thought since there are so few facts about him in the book that I might as well list all of them:

Felix is President Ravinstill's greatnephew in the book (Ch. 11), and son in the movie

Felix is assigned to mentor Dill, the girl from District 11 (Ch. 4).

He does manage to attempt an interview with Dill (Ch. 11).

Felix gossips with Dean Casca Highbottom while in a car with Coriolanus (Ch. 13). (I once answered an ask about this)

Felix is distracted by a camera crew upon arriving to Heavensbee Hall for the first day of the Games (Ch. 13).

Felix does seem sympathetic to Dill. He sends her water and judges Treech for taking her water (Ch. 14).

When Felix is dismissed, Lepidus Malmsey compliments him for getting Dill this far (Ch. 14).

Coriolanus notes Felix's good sportsmanship in contrast with Juno Phipps' reaction to losing (Ch. 16).

As A Mentor and the President's Nephson

I often characterize Felix on the kinder more sensitive side of the Capitol mentors, but I don't actually think this means much. Even the most sympathetic mentors are complicit in the Games and have been raised with the Capitol superiority ingrained in their heads.

I cite his relative care for Dill during her final moments (sending her water) and his ability to get her to participate in an interview as evidence of him being somewhat kind.

Now, Felix's judgment of Treech for stealing Dill's water does highlight his sympathy from her, but it also underlines a sort of limitation to his kindness. He has to have a personal connection to be able to sympathize with the District tributes. (I imagine that this is true for most of the mentors.) He's not going to understand that of course, Treech would do this for survival. Given the connection that Felix's family has to the Games since Pres. Ravinstill did put them into place, I don't think he's thinking about them too critically, and if he starts to, he likely willfully turns away from that line of thought.

Additionally, I find it interesting that Felix doesn't seem to have made much of an effort to help Dill before the Games. There are two options for this: he could have but he didn't want to or he did want to but he couldn't. (I suppose that it is also possible that he didn't want to and couldn't have either way, but that's boring.)

In the case of 'he did want to but he couldn't,' there is a viable reading of Felix that positions him as not very close to the president. He is a great-nephew after all. We get no other details about the President's family, so it's entirely possible that Pres. Ravinstill could have his own children. Perhaps, Lepidus Malmsey would suck up to anyone with the Ravinstill name regardless of how close they are to the President. Felix's attention to the cameras reads as more of a desperate attempt to stay relevant as a part of a lesser branch of a major family.

I choose not to go with that reading of Felix's relationship with the President, because I think it yields less interesting story potential. I am also influenced by the movie's decision to make Felix the president's son, and the potential historical parallel with Julius Caesar's posthumous adoption of his own great-nephew, the future Emperor Augustus (someone else has pointed this out before me, but unfortunately, I can't find the post).

Unlike with Caesar and Augustus, I don't characterize Felix as the president's heir. This is mostly me just wanting to have my cake and eat it too. It takes the some aspects of the less-close-to-the-president read of Felix and transfers it over to Felix who is close to Pres. Ravinstill.

To go back to not getting Dill medical attention, my preferred reading of this is that he is being overly conscious of his image. He doesn't want to draw too much attention to himself, because he doesn't want his mistakes to reflect on his great-uncle/family. I can see a situation where Felix believes that too much interaction with his District tribute might be spun in negative ways on tabloids and headlines.

Additionally, that he doesn't take advantage of the potential and try to spin it any other way leads me to interpret Felix with a somewhat defeatist and unambitious attitude. He also doesn't seem to be the most politically savvy, or at least, he isn't taking after his great-uncle who I imagine was rather ruthless and ambitious to get to where he is today (with Gaul of all people whispering in his ear). Felix's resigned reactions to Dill in the movie are also partially responsible for me characterizing him as defeatist.

Felix being paired with Dill stood out as unusual to me. Despite being a Ravinstill, he's assigned to mentor one of the tributes with the lowest chances of winning. This does lend credence to Felix having being lesser-relation-to-the-president interpretation, but I choose to believe that the president rigs his assignment so that there is less pressure on him.

Being a Ravinstill and More on Being a Nephson

To explain what I just asserted about Felix's mentor assignment, I need to explain how I think being related to the president and a Ravinstill affects him.

Again, Coriolanus' speculation on Felix's relation to the president being the reason that Lepidus Malmsey is speaking so highly of him feels like it would be a constant in Felix's life. People want to get closer to him because of that relation, but people are watching him because of it (see above where I mention this as a potential reason for not trying more with Dill). I imagine that this puts a lot of pressure on him which gets to him.

Due to the disingenuous nature of many people approaching and complimenting Felix, I think that it not only adds to his insecurities, but when he can find people who are genuine with him, he values them dearly and gets rather protective (and maybe possessive). (I've mentioned why I think he and Festus would be good together both as friends or lovers in my other post, but Felix and Hilarius work as friends because I imagine their families are closer in status and wealth than some others.)

As I imagine that Pres. Ravinstill is a distant father figure to Felix but also personally attached to him, Pres. Ravinstill knowing that Felix is both kind-hearted and not ruthless chooses to give him a tribute that has likely no chance of winning. This has the Ravinstills saving face (no chance for a embarrassing defeat if there's no hope of winning) and (the president hopes) that Felix will know better to get attached. (Felix still gets subconsciously a little attached. See Dill ask)

This reading of Felix's mentorship assignment also highlights that his great-uncle doesn't seem to have much confidence in his competence which leads to Felix being insecure and eager to please when possible. I do think it also has him leaning into his defeatism. He'll try his best, but if even his family doesn't expect him to succeed, then what can he do?

Pres. Ravinstill trying to do something for Felix and it backfiring and leading to more insecurities is kind of the story of their failed father-son relationship in my mind. (It might also be Pres. Ravinstill with his entire family.)

I would be remiss to not mention that I don't think that Felix likes Dr. Gaul too much. This draws on him gossiping with Dean Highbottom, but it also has to do with my half-headcanon/half implied canon of Pres. Ravinstill and Dr. Gaul being close. Satyria Click does state that a good report from Gaul is substantial to the president (Ch. 6). (See this tag for my lowkey insane take on the Ravinstill-Gaul dynamic).

What Can We Learn From Movie! Felix?

It should be noted that Felix and Pres. Ravinstill's relationship is also influenced by this line in the movie: "maybe, he would have if he wasn't so busy running the country." (In response to Festus asking if Pres. Ravinstill ever taught Felix table manners)

I love the attempt at showing off status and prestigious wrapped in humor which also hides the reality of an absentee father figure.

Additionally, while portray Felix as rather sympathetic, the haughtiness and judgment of movie! Felix is still something that I see being compatible with my interpretation of him. I think he gets particularly indignant when he feels cornered or embarrassed in a social situation. This is when the worst of him comes out. (I choose to read him shit-talking Sejanus as him actually wanting to shit-talk Gaul, but nobody joined him, so he had to change targets. Yes, I know that this is likely not what the film intended.)

Felix eating with his fingers endears him to me greatly and could be a sign of cracks in his projected facade of perfection, and it does feel to me that Felix's insecurities are showing through when he responds to Festus. I think that there are times that Felix relaxes too much in public around his peers, and he gets self-conscious about it.

I often kill Felix in my stories, and we can blame the movie for giving me inspiration for that too. Unfortunately, being a Ravinstill also doesn't help as I imagine that Coriolanus would want to get rid of any competition for power and the prestige of being family to the previous president puts a tempting target on Felix's back.

Death and a Dip into Extended Ravinstill Lore

Felix's death also speaks to me on a thematic level. The Capitol's children obviously have more privilege and luxury than the District kids. In the bigger picture, amidst all the backstabbing of politics in that corrupt system, the Capitol kids' safety is just an illusion. The system could just as easily turn on them. What better way to illustrate that than with the death of the (former) president's own nephson? In my headcanon lore, Felix is the first time that Coriolanus murders one of his former classmates (See this ask for more).

I have a lot of thoughts on extended Ravinstill lore that goes beyond the scope of this post (See this and this for more) but know that I thinned out the Ravinstill family tree quite a bit before the start of canon. This serves to reinforce the idea of how the Capitol (or at least the unfair system that it runs) isn't truly good for anyone even those in power. It also helps reinforce Felix as a deeply insecure individual who lives in the shadow of two generations worth of dead family members.

...

Okay, this is double in size from the Festus post. I hope that this is coherent! I also hope that I'm not forgetting anything! I have so many Felix thoughts that it is possible.

If any of this sounds interesting, I recommend trying to read my fics on ao3 (they're actually unrestricted now!) if you haven't already.

If you have read my fics, I sincerely hope this was interesting/insightful as a lot of what is here is already in my fics in some form.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!

[scandalouslamb]

what’s up it’s me again here to share another silly little thought i’ve been having (unfortunately as the resident Ravinstill Enjoyer™️ you have to suffer though my annoying felix thoughts)

okay SO i’ve been thinking of how coriolanus gained power and that led to this dumb au

basically felix is radicalized by the games and decides to act. and since he’s a ravinstill he thinks he’s the best person for the job- his big plan is to poison the president. he’s really proud of himself for pulling it off but all it does is make it easier for coriolanus to take power and make things worse

rip felix u tried

They're not annoying! If anyone has annoying Felix thoughts it's me!

I love you throwing around a Felix is radicalized AU! Felix killing the President has so much angst potential. I've thought about it before actually! Entertained it in my head.

I think a little patricide (great avunculicide) would do a number on poor Felix especially when it doesn't fix any of the problems that he wanted to fix! It's actually so funny to me (known Felix torturer) that President Ravinstill gets to pass on the weird curse I've given him (everything he does to get what he wants actually wants (keeping his family safe and happy) backfiring spectacularly) to Felix through patricide/avunculicide.

Pres. Ravinstill amassing power to protect his family (and his own ambition): *95% of his family dying in my canon, a lot of them in assassination attempts on his life*

Felix, deciding to try and fight for a fair and just Panem and kill his tyrannical uncle: *Coriolanus takes over who might be worse* <- this is actually the plot of Julius Caesar except for some weird reason Octavius and Brutus switch roles.

[scandalouslamb]

any hcs about felix when he was a kid? i'm curious lol

Hmm... See the problem is I don't know how much of my fics, you've read, anon, so I feel like I'm danger of repeating things you might already know. I feel like a lot of my headcanons get sprinkled across all my fics lol. Some of this might be familiar if you're familiar with my fics.

Thanks for the ask! (HCs below cut)

He was orphaned during the the beginning of the war at age 4 (going on 5)

He's raised in the Presidential Palace by President Ravinstill (whose pretty distant because that man has baggage)

He has two living cousins who are over 10 years older than him, Marius and Gnaeus. He isn't particularly close with either of them.

He doesn't remember much of his parents (or the rest of the large, dead extended family I gave him) as he grows older which is part of what reinforces the distance between him, his cousins, and his great-uncle.

To grieve with Felix would require them to remind him of what he's lost which would rip open wounds for the rest of them that are just beginning to try and heal. In the middle of a war, those three don't have the emotional energy. Once the war's ended, they all feel like it's too late.

He was homeschooled for the duration of the war, and doesn't join the rest of the kids until he's 8 going on 9 (around the time the war ends)

Being a Ravinstill offers him amount of confidence in social interactions. He believes that he's owed a certain amount of respect from his peers

He also offers a certain amount of respect back, but he can come across as rather patronizing

He doesn't actually pull rank (saying his great-uncle is the president or that his family is more prestigious). He expects people to to treat him that well without a reminder, and when they don't, he believes he's failing to fall into his idealized view of what a Ravinstill should be.(I weirdly think about John Locke's social contract when I think about Felix's views of his interpersonal relationships. Ravinstills are great, and everyone should want to be our friends! If they don't want to be mine, maybe I'm not doing it right? Maybe, I should be overthrown I'm not a worthy Ravinstill?)

For most of his childhood, he isn't really able to tell the difference from doing what he thinks he should and doing what he actually wants to do

Felix is jealous that Gaul can get his great-uncle's full attention so easily, and he develops a bit of a grudge against her from a young age. Plenty of other officials can get the president's attention more than Felix, but he's sensitive to how his distant father figure interacts with others and can see the president will pull his attention away from other matters if Gaul speaks.

[scandalouslamb]

@ragnyra Since you expressed interest, behold, the family I massacred!

Sorry, if this is hard to read even with the number key for the names. I drew out the family tree so fast and then realized that a lot of people may not be able to read my handwriting.

Felix is actually the baby of the family, because his parents marry later than the rest, but within a generation, the eldest to youngest goes left to right (not counting spouses).

I need to stop thinking about the Ravinstills… (Only Maximinius, Marius, Gnaeus, and Felix are alive by the time that tbosas starts.)

EDIT: my name choices are explained here.

[scandalouslamb]

President Ravinstill and Failed Fatherhood

President. First Citizen. Father of the Country. Maximinius Ravinstill had been that if nothing else.

pater patriae/exu: calamity, ep. 4/ the death of antony/tu fui, ego eris/exu: calamity/ caesar's dismay upon seeing pompey's head/pater patriae/exu: calamity/ivan the terrible and his son ivan/ave atque vale/tbosas (movie)

*unsure if it's clear, so dying/dead romans and ivan the terrible and his son paintings are meant to symbolize marius, gnaeus, and felix's deaths in reverse chronological order. marius and gnaeus being my ravinstill extended family ocs.

[scandalouslamb]

I presented Pres. Ravinstill two buttons to press in order to dictate what befell his family. It's not my fault that he didn't have his reading glasses on when he pressed "nepoticide" instead of "nepotism"

[scandalouslamb]

would be interested to hear about how you come up with character names! (for the Ravinstill family and other OCs) i'm a big fan of the thg canon naming cultures and when i see a fic writer going for some of the ancient roman deep cuts i'm excited about that haha

You know fun fact I was just talking to someone about this! @persephoneprice, hope you don't mind the @ but while some of this is a rehash of what I told you already, maybe some of the other stuff/examples can help you out!

Anyway, the first step is always to figure out the main things about the character! Since thg characters generally have pretty on the nose names for a lot of the characters, then it's useful to know what their purpose in the story/their character trajectory is.

A lot of the time, I play a weird game of word association. If I need multiple names, I usually try to stick to a theme. If the theme isn't really strong, or I can't think of one, then I try to pick whether I want the name to be Greek or Roman (this is specifically for Capitol names).

The best way to illustrate how I come up with names is to just provide examples:

My Ravinstill Naming Convention

With the Ravinstills (the family tree post), Felix having a name meaning "fortunate" and not being lucky at all (in my interpretation) influenced how I named his grandfather, Albanus. He's named for an alternative way to refer to the city of Alba Longa which in myth/the Aeneid is the city that Ascanius founds as a precursor to Romulus and Remus founding Rome. It's meant to be ironic in that Maximinius prioritizes the Capitol to basically the detriment of everything else ultimately, and Aeneas in the Aeneid does the same thing leading to the foundation of Lavinium -> Alba Longa -> Rome. But also the idea of Alba Longa as a precursor to the founding of Rome (essentially saying it comes before Rome, and Rome as metaphor for HG's Capitol) <- when I said naming was a game of word association. This is what I meant.

I named Felix's father Ascanio (which obviously comes from Ascanius) to draw a stronger connection between him and Albanus than his other siblings, but gave him the Italian version of the name to differentiate him from his family.

I try to name the rest of the Ravinstills after pre-Roman Republic inspired names (although some names have some overlap like Junius and Tullius). A couple of them are also named for Trojans (Creusa and Kassandra), or Aeneas' connection to Aphrodite (Cythera). Sabina is named for the territory of the ancient Sabine people who bordered Latium.

Felix's mom (Metaneira) is named for a queen who accidentally stops her son from becoming immortal and is the only one besides the Ravinstills who survive the Dark Days to have a name that isn't related to the Aeneid/pre-Republic Rome in some direct way. In a way, her different naming convention also sets her apart.

Marius and Gnaeus are named for Gaius Marius and Gnaeus Pompey of the Late Roman Republic, because in my mind, I was comparing Snow to Caesar and wanted them to be named for Roman politicians/generals who rose to power and fell from it around the same time as Caesar, and people always talk about Marius and Pompey before getting to the Julius Caesar history class section. Also Coriolanus is sometimes thought to be called Gnaeus Marcius Coriolanus (but Gnaeus could also just be Gaius), and I think the similarities in name are fun, because those two were always meant to be tbosas' Coriolanus' (one-sided) political rivals before I decided anything else for them.

Other Thoughts

The Capitol also seems to have a tendency to have either simple surnames (typically words) or fancier/surnames.

Simple: Snow, Price, Creed, Moss, Click, Trinket, Crane, Fling

Fancier: Heavensbee, Ravinstill

There's also the average American sounding surnames: Anderson, Breen, Canville, Phipps (?)

Fabrica What-Not seems to be an outlier in the surname department, but she does prove you can go wild with them if you want, but if you don't want your OC standing out with their surname, then you can try to come up with one that fits those above categories. If you're not making a Capitol OC, then I recommend just comparing the common conventions for surnames (or also first names) and trying to follow those in whatever District or location you're OC is from.

Or if you don't mind making your OC related to a canon character, you can just steal their surname (thank you, minor character Satyria Click for your service to my OCs).

I've rambled about my other OC names in author's notes on my fics, but if you don't want to dig through those author's notes (they're long and there a lot of them), feel free to ask about specific ones!

Thanks for the ask! I hope this is coherent!

[scandalouslamb]

weird somehow i ended up yapping in ur inbox again

anyway. on my drive home i got to thinking about your boy max and what he might have been like as a president before the rebellion. (and i might just be misremembering so if i am just delete this and save me the humiliation) i was wondering if you had any thoughts to spare?

also on a somewhat related note- what do you think his childhood was like? (which is probably a weird question but i feel like your blog is a safe space to dissect the ravinstills)

I always love to talk about my good friend Max! What a guy! I hope you all understand that I know he's awful!

Anyway, thanks for the ask! You're always welcome here! I got pretty out of control while rambling, so if you want me to elaborate on something just ask!

I mention this in Si Deleamini, Deleamur, but the Ravinstills got on the wrong side of the presidential administration before Max's and his family basically got decimated (kind of like what's going to happen in the future *gunshot*)

As I offhandedly mentioned in the same fic, Max', Albanus (his brother), and their mother got to live because their mother was related to the secretary of health.

Max is the older brother so he feels a lot of responsibility towards Albanus.

Max also kind of idealizes his brother even before he dies of an illness after Max becomes president. To Max, Albanus is this sweet kid who doesn't understand the harsh realities of the world, but the truth it that Albanus does! And what he doesn't understand, he probably could! But Max just thinks it's his duty to not get Albanus involved too much which damages their relationship (Max will do the same thing to Felix)

I do like to imagine parallels between Felix and his grandfather, so Max isn't totally making things up when he's seeing similarities between the two. He's just also not seeing either of them clearly.

The time that Max grew up in was pretty tumultuous with politics happening (in the form of violence) in the streets or in the Districts through proxies. I imagine this sparked him to want to kind of tame that chaos (the answer... backdoor politics and assassination? max... please....)

He's internally angry and resentful and his origins kind of parallel a certain Coriolanus Snow in that his family has had a fall from grace

They aren't financially struggling (although they've lost money) but the drop in influence and standing is frustrating

During his Academy years, he meets Volumnia, and they match each other's freak a little too well

He has ideas for control and power, and everything he says is proving her right about the world: humans are selfish and savage

I imagine Gaul being from a less influential family (in my hc) means he doesn't feel threatened by her as he would others and that is why he lets her be his actual friend (this will carry on into their adulthood with the more fucked up, she needs him to exert power.)

Max has a face/presence that makes you think he's judging you. His classmates saw him as levelheaded and smart, but his stoic face had them jumping to conclusions that they were wrong about something

He likes watching them squirm trying to correct themselves when they are already right <- Volumnia sees through him and is immediately like 'oh? he's just like me for real!'

His rise to power was rife with murder as well. Volumnia thinks it's a great way to amass power! Albanus thinks it's about revenge and while a little disturbed lets it slide. They are both equally right about what it's about for Max.

Pre-Rebellion, I don't think he's a great guy (but at least not complicit in sending 23 children to their deaths every year? the bar is in hell)

Max runs the country like he accidentally runs his family by being emotionally unavailable and having people clamoring for his attention. (this applies pre and post rebellion to me, but post rebellion Max is also just... tired)

Like... I imagine that unlike Snow who kills off his competition (which Max does for sure too but directly? only if they've done something or are caught red-handed about to do something.) He avoids really having competition by having potential rivals in competition amongst themselves

He bestows political favor readily to someone and then stops and does it to someone else. These two will be in competition trying to outperform each other (yields good results and if they get too distracted by each other than Max will find some other person to replace both). If one succeeds so much that they may challenge Max politically, well... usually the other one will take care of it before Max gets his hands dirty.

[scandalouslamb]

Felix Ravinstill Time Travel AU

I answered an ask a while back from @tumblingghosts about how I think a time traveling Felix AU would go, but I only covered what would happen if he was taken back to the year of the 10th Annual Hunger Games. Here, I will speculate a bit about what I think will happen if he went back further (backpacks, since you expressed interest, hope you don't mind the tag):

Felix wakes up at age 4 (going on 5), having just survived the bombing that killed his parents. (lots of time-travel manga/manwha choose to go back to a pivotal event or a situation where the character bumped their head to help explain sudden shifts in behavior. This seemed a good place to put him.)

After getting patched up, no one actually notices Felix is that different from his usual self. His cousins just knew his as their younger cousins and his great-uncle didn't know him that well.

Felix is quiet and confused. He asks a lot of questions to reorient himself to being back in time, but given he just survived a bombing, no one thinks it's that strange.

Until the war ends roughly 4 years later, he's just focused on making sure he survives the war again.

This time around, however, he tries and gets closer to his family members who in the last life were fairly distant from him, because of their baggage.

Given that Felix has the emotional understanding of an adult, this goes pretty well since he knows that when his cousins push him away, they're reacting in response to their own grief of having lost their families too.

To Felix's surprise, demanding more time with the President actually yields results, he kind of has a silent meltdown that getting all the attention he craved as a child could have been a simple as asking for it.

Overall, with the exception of the war going on, Felix's second childhood is actually weirdly happier and he's much more connected to his family members.

The attention that he's getting from the President does in turn, attract Gaul's attention

In the previous time travel scenario, it kind of started to develop into a Snow v. Felix rivalry. Uh, here? It's Gaul v. Felix. Gaul's beefing with an 8 (going on 9) year old by the time the Treaty of Treason is signed.

I like to imagine that without the Hunger Games being immediately in front of him, Felix has kind of wasn't concerned with them becoming a thing. He's still reeling that good communication was all that was needed to stop him from having a nearly nonexistent relationship with his family. Why didn't the older members try to communicate better with him once they had processed their grief a bit more?

He's so conflicted about his better relations with his family that he probably hasn't even put together that Coriolanus killed him yet :)

Don't worry once he starts going to school with Coriolanus and gets to thinking, he does start to realize that it's the best explanation for his very convenient accident. He can't know for sure, but he definitely will never fully trust Coriolanus again.

Back to the Hunger Games, after the 1st Games, Felix has the "oh, crap, those are kids!" moment as someone with an adult mind.

He starts getting sick just thinking about how this is going to happen every year and starts side-eyeing his great-uncle.

His cousins, Marius and Gnaeus, notice since they're closer to him in this timeline, and Felix decides to confide in them to test the waters. If they listen to him, then maybe they'll help him convince the president.

They're sympathetic to his view, but they point out that their family was killed by rebels, and wouldn't it be nice to get revenge?

After mulling their response over, he decides that convincing the Capitol will be hard with the war so fresh in their mind, but later on, they'll be more accustomed to it

while the Hunger Games were not popular by the 10th Games, there's no certainty that they would have died out immediately after them without Snow's interference. It could have gone a few more years before petering out, or found other gimmicks to jumpstart popularity. Besides, trying to get the Capitol to empathize with the District tributes gets harder with every Game. There will plenty of cognitive dissonance at work to help the Capitol justify their actions. After all, no one wants to look back and see the 23 children they slaughtered yearly.

I think Felix whom I have going into politics in his first life (he doesn't get far and only acts as a advisor/staff member) will understand that this is the time to do what politicians do best

He makes a deal with the devil. He goes puts on his best innocent child asking questions he doesn't know could get him into trouble face attempts to bargain with his great-uncle without his great-uncle knowing.

By this point, I think that it becomes clear to Felix that Pres. Maximinius Ravinstill sees him as a kind of stand in to the President's deceased brother, Felix's grandfather. I imagine that Felix's father was the one among his siblings who acted the closest to Pres. Ravinstill's brother.

Felix probably primes the conversation with "what was my grandfather like?" and "what was my father like?" before diving into the Games. At some point after the Games topic switch, Felix hits him with the "what would my grandfather thing?" at a pivotal moment.

Pres. Ravinstill isn't budging on wanting revenge though. Man has lost too much family for that, and I also can't imagine that Felix even as a former politician being ruthless enough to suggest the president just murder rebel adults from the Districts until he feels better

What happens is that Felix realizes that his great-uncle hasn't thought that far ahead with the Games. They were an emotional decision (probably pressured by Gaul but Felix doesn't know that).

Felix doesn't stop the Games. Felix aims lower, extracting a promise from a weary great-uncle. An emotional decision countering a previous one. He convinces Pres. Ravinstill to limit the Games. 10 years, seems like reasonable recompense for the District's uprising. That's 230 children.

This isn't a perfect solution, but Felix isn't a perfect person.

Gaul starts trying to bolster the Games' popularity and usefulness by any means necessary to hopefully overrule the president's promise to a child by making the Games useful as more than a form of revenge

Felix, I think would find unlikely allies within the President's Staff who I can't imagine were all into the child killing game that they have to market to the people. (very dark but I imagine that the Ravinstill Regime right after the war had a very high turnover rate on staff members)

By the 10th Games, I imagine that a few betting system in in place, but without the paired sponsorship system, it's not as successful. (Gaul is trying harder to market. I'm sure she could at least come up with betting. Maybe, it's less official than the system in tbosas)

The 10th Games might not have Academy mentors. Gaul might try something else, but honestly, I think it could be a nice parallel to keep them the same

In fact, I like to imagine that in canon the president rigged Felix's pick to be a low number to keep expectations on him low (he'd intuit that my canon timeline! Felix is very preoccupied with expectations). In this timeline, since Felix is more confident (it comes with being mentally a 35 year old man), he doesn't feel the need to rig Felix's tribute.

In canon, I imagine that Highbottom rigged Coriolanus' tribute selection so he got the District 12 girl (the supposed runt of the litter, you wouldn't be able to account for the specifics age or health, unless your Strabo Plinth and know a specific person because I'm a believer that the Marcus-Sejanus pair was fully rigged)

In this AU, Gaul has begun to despise Felix, but can't take it out on him directly. She rigs his tribute.

So, the stage is set, and at the Reaping, Felix Ravinstill is assigned Lucy Gray Baird as his tribute

This, again, got very long. Also I love that I wrote this all out and ended up setting up the start of a fic... I might never write it. Or if I do it will take me a while to get to it, so if anyone actually feels like taking a stab at this, it could be fun.

Also yes, sorry Dill, this means that you get Coriolanus as a mentor. I feel like Felix would try to look out for her too though. I imagine that he's trying to stop this Game since he's directly involved with it and has some anti-game support from the President's staff and probably Highbottom.

[scandalouslamb]

any thoughts on Felix and Livia growing up together? I tend to imagine them as their year’s “prom king”/“prom queen” archetypes — at some point, people might have thought they’d end up together (mostly for status reasons), but in reality they can’t stand each other. they probably find some of the same people (like Snow?) annoying though lol

btw, have been enjoying your Ravinstill fics a lot! I was curious if you hc’d anyone playing the role of first lady during Maximinius’s tenure — I have a weird hc where it’s actually his niece (like how a few unmarried/widowed US presidents have had a daughter/daughter-in-law/niece become the “hostess” in place of a first lady, though I also imagine that this is somewhat more gender-neutral in Panem), but was wondering if you had anything in mind

This is about to be so long. My ability to ramble about made-up Ravinstills went out of control. I apologize:

Livia and Felix

I do touch on some thoughts on Felix and Livia's relationship growing up in Chapter 6 of Close Your Eyes. I shall summarize the gist of it while pointedly ignoring my oc, because ocs aren't always everyone's thing.

Oh, I'm big on Felix and Livia being unable to stand each other! I do have the world's nichest interpretation of Livia though, so um, just walk with me. A lot of people who are charitable to Livia make her a schemer. I don't really do this. Instead, I characterize her as a sheltered, hopeless romantic who has good instincts about people but who due to being sheltered/rich is also rather self-centered and unaware of how this affects her relationship with others. Felix is also in my mind sheltered but much more aware of how he's presenting himself to others. As such, when Livia's just not trying to listen to him or pick up on clues that she's overstepping, they get off on a bad foot as kids and this continues into their teen years.

On Felix's part, I do think that he's a little jealous of how free my interpretation of Livia is with how little she cares about other people's opinions. A large part of my Felix characterization is that he is very conscious of his image as a Ravinstill, even though in his mind, I imagine that Maximinius Ravinstill tries to raise him with the attitude of letting him do whatever as long as Felix understands the basics of how to behave to maintain power, but unfortunately, the President has like the worst communication skills with his family specifically.

In my worldbuilding, Felix isn't as antagonistic to Snow as in other people's, but I can imagine that Felix and Livia could present a united front against more nouveau riche Capitolites if those people are specifically taunting them. Personally, in my mind, Felix is more likely to stay out of arguments unless they purposefully affect people close to him. If he accidentally starts an argument (due to general Capitolite haughtiness or Ravinstill superiority complex), he'll probably just leave to avoid potentially making a fool of himself or backpedal as hard as possible (what he should have said haunts him for weeks).

Okay, tl;dr, while everyone probably thinks it would have been nice to tie the Ravinstills and Cardews together, in my worldbuilding, it's obvious to everyone those two don't get along from their first few meetings.

Acting First Lady For Pres. Ravinstill's Tenure

Hmmm. First Lady during Maximinius' tenure... Well, if you don't count Gaul, because both Maximinius and everyone is just refusing to acknowledge the weird partnership, pseudo-marriage, whatever they have going one, then I think his sister-in-law probably steps up for a bit, and then the responsibility falls to one of his nieces once they have a falling out. (I imagine that being so work-first and with many a rumor swirling that you've murdered people to gain power does a number on your familial relations if they aren't as ruthless as you.)

I actually give him two nephews and two nieces (three of them have spouses). His first nephew is the family heir, his first niece is the spare/first nephew's right hand guy. Felix's father is the third child and he's busy being head-empty, no-thoughts just an all-around nice without a political bone in his body guy, so in my world, hosting probably falls to his youngest niece who I characterize as a bit of a scandal (we are fully in my extended Ravinstill family tree lore oh no). She has a kid out of wedlock, but I imagine that this does motivate her to be closer to power so that her kid is harder to ostracize later. (her attempts are futile. she and her kid are the first Ravinstills to die after Maximinius' brother). After her, I imagine that the role of host largely falls back on the President with the help of his Communications Secretary. Felix tries to help as a kid, but he's a kid, so all he does is shepherd some of the other kids and tells them to stop running in the halls. At home, hall monitor.

Anyway, thanks for the ask! This got very long!

[scandalouslamb]

you know... i think about ravinstill extended family oc gnaeus getting his head lopped off and presented to his cousin who is also his adopted brother marius enough that maybe i should just make that canon to my worldbuilding...

[scandalouslamb]

For the ask game! 🐝 Cassandra's Lament

fake fic ask game

(note that for this fic, I suppose that I would change the title slightly to Kassandra's Lament for the double meaning of having a Ravinstill OC named Kassandra)

Summary: Creusa will never regret marrying her husband. She might not have loved Albanus Ravinstill at first, but love did grow.

In the years following her husband's death, she watches her children follow in their father's footsteps chasing after the attention of their uncle, Maximinius Ravinstill.

Or: Creusa Ravinstill tries and steers her family away from the politics and intrigues that surround her brother-in-law, but no one seems to listen to her.

[scandalouslamb]

I did a really weird 5k+ word fic... This was supposed to be a happy au fic for my oc fic, and it instead, became not quite a murder mystery fic as told by Felix to Gaul. Like technically, it's a happier au because Felix isn't dead at the end (spoilers?) but... It doesn't really focus on happiness?