#sarevok

[the-song-of-avernus]

I feel sorry for Orin

repurposed from an old Reddit post of mine

Raised from birth in the Bhaal cult and has never known ANYTHING else. Literally the result of incest between her mom and Sarevok (her father AND grandfather) - and for her entire life is actively manipulated and groomed to worship her "Grandfather" second only to Bhaal (leaving a disgusting implication that Sarevok might eventually try again). Literally every single day of her life spent in a murder cult, never knowing anything else.

Her mother is actively manipulated when Orin is seven to try to kill her daughter, only for Orin to reflexively kill her first, at which point Orin was briefly possessed by Bhaal himself (per some Sarevok dialogue). AT AGE SEVEN. And even from a young age, Orin's true gift is her artistry, a talent that outside the Bhaal cult probably could have been nurtured into something phenominal, but inside the cult is twisted into a sinisterness in the kill that, when she's out of earshot is decried as wasteful.

She eventually rises through the ranks (never have had any choice), having never felt a meaningful moment of compassion or kindness and, desperate to be cared about, sees the power and fear and respect her bloodkin (The Dark Urge) has gained and uses their hubris to take them out.

Ironically, in the timeline where Durge lives, they get a gift Orin couldn't even dream of - a 2nd chance. With their brain scrambled and the tadpole present but being interfered with, the Dark Urge got a chance to be someone new. (Whether they accept or reject that 2nd chance, they at least got a choice this time).

What did Orin get for her troubles? Her (grand)father openly coveted to either take her out, or worse, take her out - when the time was right, her own allies both detested her (Gortash openly revels at the idea of working with the Dark Urge again)

and most brutally, if you manage to confront her with the truth, any of it? About Sarevok, about her mother, etc? She immediately believes you. And for one (1) moment, maybe there's hope for her.

Hope that Bhaal immediately rips away; an Orin confronted with the truth and showing even the slightest hesitation is immediately forcibly transformed into the Slayer by Bhaal himself, with a strong implication that the core of the old Orin is gone forever win, lose, or draw. "No more doubts, no more fears, no more Orin. Become murder.". Seeing what Bhaal's reaction was the moment Orin had one (1) instant of hesitation also confirms that she'd likely have never had the chance to choose differently, either Bhaal would always step in or else she'd eventually meet her end.

Imagine the AU where Orin takes her CLEAR flair and artistic talent to become a truly great artist. Where she gets the same second chance that Durge got - If she'd been able to use her talent for impersonation and desire to great to do something powerful instead of being forced by her family from childhood into the family business of murder.

She literally never had a chance. Even Bane and Myrkul and their respective cults were never so unfathomably cruel, and she never knew anything else.

At least for my own first game, though, my Durge recognized that without her "sister," she'd have never gotten the chance to save the world, never met Shadowheart, never stopped a century worth of Ketheric's torture on Dame Aylin, never set in motion the liberation of the Githyanki...In the right world states, Orin unwittingly saved the world, but it's a world she'll never get to see or know, and probably never could have.

That's tragic as hell.

[blighted-elf]

Baldur's Gate (1998) / Baldur's Gate 3 (2023) - Sarevok Anchev

[a2zillustration]

Pretty wild that you can just trick a god by saying "yeah this murder was yummy" but alright.

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[wild-magic-oops]

Thinking about Gortash using Sarevok's old Iron Throne fortress/tower for his own purposes as a prison

and also putting into motion a plan very similar to Sarevok's for becoming an archduke (which in this context is the same as a grand duke, I think, but I'm not knowledgeable with noble titles)

My view on Durge and Sarevok's relationship is that Sarevok actually respected and liked Durge (as much as possible for a non-reformed bhaalspawn) so it's very possible that he had at some point shared his history, old plans, and failures with Durge, at the very least as a lesson for Durge.

Also, Gortash has a line about him and Durge studying their predecessors and their mistakes,

which combined with everything so far, definitely makes me think that the Iron Throne prison and the Archduke plans were at the very least co-founded by Durge and Gortash, if not outright suggested by Durge.

Another interesting side to all this - Orin is attached to her (grand)father (again, as much as possible for a non-reformed bhaalspawn) so it probably pisses her off that Gortash managed to pull off a plan that Sarevok failed, especially bc it was with Durge's help, and it's just one more reason why she's so spiteful towards him. In her eyes Gortash uses her grandfather's plan, uses her grandfather's fortress, uses her sibling and boss in myriads of ways and in turn - the whole Bhaal cult, for his own gains.

[amelyssan]

f i l t h y , p i g - m o u t h e d L I A R ! g r a n d f a t h e r l o v e d m e . h e w o r s h i p p e d m e .

[dirtybg3confessions]

Confession: bhaal's top three family values: daddy issues, incest and blood kinks <3

[doli-nemae]

So, i misspelled "Embrace" in my latest drawing so I turn my cringe into new headcanon

(feat. @clericnortke 's charname)

[voidwraith]

So Larian destroyed two of most loved evil-aligned characters from BG1-2 by making them quite the opposite of they was before.

Rebel and outcast from Underdark because of her unwilling to torture a child, Viconia became fanatic and kidnapper.

And Sarevok who NEVER worshipped Bhaal became his most loyal servant. (actually EVERY ONE LINE about Sarevok in dialogue file is insulting. Obvious contempt really)

What's next? Maybe someday we will get Neverwinter Nights 3 with Bishop, somehow torn from the Wall, as very proud worshipper of Ilmater and Ammon Jerro as big fan and successor of King Of Shadows?

I'd understand (not approve) if this was about hypocrisy and moralism, but in BG3 world isn't just black and white. We got many new complicated characters tending to evil alignment. But these two just look like they was written by despising author who wanted to make them dirty.

[fuckyeahbaldursgate]

Bhaal's errant progeny and BG3.

Hey all, just some witterings from me that I really wanted to post about a particular encounter because it just super irked me. This post contains spoilers for Act 3 and specifically the serial murders quest.

My overall view is that most of the returning cast from the original BGs have been treated fairly respectfully and consistent with their character arcs in BG1/2 however, there is one unfortunately that I just don't like and that's Sarevok. Yep he's back for a brief encounter where he's revealed to Orin's granddaddy and he's going to smack your butt for funsies. Now while I enjoyed the fight itself the overall conversation / plot points were kind of disappointing for the following reasons:

1.) No Kevin Michael Richardson. Given the guy recently starred in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear and is a fairly prolific voice actor I have no idea why they didn't ask him to do this role and given his distinctive voice, it's really noticeable. I appreciate with the other returning characters haven't got their original VAs either but I think Jaheria and Minsc's VAs do a good impression of originals and in some ways can hide behind the accents of the characters.

2.) Ignores the impact of Imoen's soul. It's referenced in the conversation that the fairest Bhaalspawn resurrected him so that implies that BG3 assumes it was Imoen who gave a bit of their soul to revive him in Throne of Bhaal. Now there were a few conversations that touched upon the fact that Sarevok was actually mildly influenced by this (he has cravings for sweet things and other strange things etc.). I'm not saying that this would have completely turned him overnight into a good guy but his re-embracing of Bhaal seems contrary to this.

3.) Inconsistent with conversations with Sarevok in BG1/Throne of Bhaal. In my view, the game is fairly clear that Sarevok's goal was never to serve the Lord of Murder but to become him. Furthermore, in TOB he actually seems pretty accepting of the fact that he failed to achieve that and is almost regretful in places, particularly in relation to Tamoko's fate. Why has he gone back to serve the Lord of Murder no less in BG3 when he wasn't really a true believer in the first place.

4.) Inconsistent with Sarevok's epilogue at the end of Throne of Bhaal. Sarevok's arc in TOB revolved around the nature versus nurture argument. One of the big challenges the Bhaalspawn faces is the revelation that Gorion had the opportunity to take either you or Sarevok and it was pure luck that you were chosen instead of him. The question for the Bhaalspawn is: would you have turned out exactly the same as Sarevok had you not lived in the relative safety of Candlekeep? Sarevok is given an opportunity to do things differently at the end of TOB. His epilogue notes that he never settled in one place for too long, routing an army of orcs before he conquered an entire city by himself only to then mysteriously vanish. The epilogue concludes that he actually returned to Kara-Tur to bury Tamoko and never returned, which ultimately suggests that Sarevok is a changed man at the end of TOB.

So yeah it seemed really lazy to me that he's just back as another mook of Bhaal for you to mow down. Now I've been playing a fairly neutral drow wizard who turned down the offer of becoming an assassin of Bhaal so maybe this comes across better if you have more time to talk to him but yeah was left feeling a bit sad by how he ended up in BG3.

[crisurdiales]

Living the life in Baldur's Gate: cults, hidden prisons and old friends

An explorer's journal in Faerun:

Pages 1-10 - Pages 11-20 - Pages 21-30 - Pages 31-40 - Pages 41-50 - Pages 51-60

[pierkyn]

I'm laughing my ass off at the geniuses ruling Baldur's Gate putting the most sinister looking mf'er in charge of "protecting" the city

AGAIN

tbh, that was to be expected - and compared to Sarevok, Enver isn't even *that* bad, I guess :'D

[blighted-elf]

Baldur's Gate 3 - Returning Characters

[a2zillustration]

I did this fight in exactly the wrong way but Mama K saved the day by being absolutely terrifying apparently

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[wild-magic-oops]

Sarevok was really out there hoping that Durge and Orin would produce a child together only for Durge to go hearts eyes at Bane's Chosen lmao absolute comedy right here

[theultimatepielord]

A long and angry rant about Sarevok's inclusion in bg3.

As a big fan of the first two Baldur's gate games, I am very angry about Sarevok's inclusion in bg3, and it feels like they just abandoned everything about his character to be like "ooh, cool cameo, remember the other games?" (Which were better fight me). Major spoilers for all 3 baldur's gate games.

First question: why is he still alive? The events of BG2 ToB were in 1369 DR, and Sarevok was already in his twenties, per the Forgotten Realms wiki (this is reasonably accurate to bg1/2) , and bg3 takes place in 1492/maybe93 DR, which makes him at least 142 years old. Bhaalspawn age slower than normal mortals, so this could make sense EXCEPT SAREVOK DOESN'T HAVE BHAALSPAWN POWERS, as his Bhaalspawn abilities weren't restored when he was resurrected by Abdel at the start of Throne of Bhaal. So first off, he should be dead by old age, and resurrection magic generally doesn't work after death by old age (since it would in-universe make the acquisition of immortality completely trivial for anyone wealthy). Already a gaping plothole, but sure let's progress through anyways.

So storywise, you find him as the justice in charge of the initiation of the Bhaalist cult headed by Orin. This immediately raises a question: WHY THE FUCK IS SAREVOK RUNNING A CULT FOR SOMEONE ELSE?

You might say, "why wouldn't a Bhaalspawn be working for a cult of Bhaal?", well, here are some good reasons.

Sarevok never worshipped his father. His cult during bg1 was dedicated to making HIM the new Lord of Murder, and his massive ego and intense selfishness kinda precluded him ever working for someone else's aims.

Sarevok ended his time with Abdel as a Chaotic Good character attempting to find redemption for his time as a murderer (this isn't guaranteed, the player can not redeem him, but his entry on the Forgotten Realms wiki implies that he is canonically redeemed, and it's significantly more in character for Abdel (also CG) to help him find redemption)

During the events of ToB he regards his non-Abdel/Imoen siblings with scorn and resentment, and is not interested in supporting any future lords of murder, save perhaps the one nice enough to resurrect him.

Not only that, he shows deference to Bhaal, the father he never cared for, and proof of his failure, after Orin kills her mother/his daughter.

"Ok but it was for his daughter/granddaughter, surely that changes the equation"

First off Sarevok didn't really care for his close family, as he either manipulates Abdel and company into killing his adoptive father Rieltar or just does it himself and frames Abdel. Either way, the murder of his adoptive father is a critical part of his plan. He also kills Winski Perorate, his beloved tutor who told him he was a Bhaalspawn for helping him escape the Grand Dukes + Flaming Fist + Abdel crew instead of helping fight. A minor transgression to kill someone close to you over. He also tosses aside the love of his life, Tamoko, to pursue godhood. His evil side does not care for ANYONE. And his good side sure as hell wouldn't react to Bhaal declaring his daughter/granddaughter his Chosen by supporting them.

Which brings us to the final plothole: who the hell is Helen(Orin's mother/Sarevok's daughter)'s mother?

It really should be a doppelganger, given that Changelings can be the offspring of a doppelganger and a human, giving Orin changeling blood, which makes sense on the surface level given Sarevok's army of doppelgangers in bg1. Except throughout bg1 Sarevok is in a relationship (initially with Tamoko, and then later Cythandria), and changelings live as long as humans, which creates the same issue of bg1 being over 120 years ago. This means that Sarevok went doppelganger-fucking at some point in his ceaseless tortured post-bg2 wanderings and then opted to settle down and raise the offspring despite canonically never falling in love again after Tamoko.

Even if Helen were not a doppelganger, and Orin's father was, we still hit the issue of Sarevok needing to conceive her almost certainly with either Tamoko or Cythandria 120 years before the events of bg3, so either Orin's ancient or Helen was ancient when she birthed her. Neither really makes sense.

NOT ONLY THAT, if Sarevok WAS supportive of his daughter's scheming, why the hell is Orin just Gortash's mad dog? Sarevok's a consummate schemer, a relentless power-seeker with as much similarity to Bane as to Bhaal. Why the hell was he ok with Gortash taking prime position? Why didn't he ever teach his daughter subtlety or politics? Even if Orin kills Gortash, she couldn't hold Baldur's Gate. What the hell?

I don't think Larian asked any of these questions, I think they just wanted callbacks to bg1 so they tossed in the main villain because he's a recognizable helmet and name. And to top it all off they recast him. The most iconic VA performance from bg1 gets recast. Original VA Kevin Michael Richardson is still active and still does video games, with no major controversies near as I can tell. I can forgive not bringing back Heidi Shanon (retired for 20 years) and Jim Cummings (accused of sexual abuse), but come the fuck on with not bringing back KMR.

[nightingaletrash]

Jaheira told Tallis about how the bg1 and 2 parties got so used to Fianna waking them up with her nightmares that they were like 'fuck yeah, keep resisting Bhaal babe!'

And now I'm imagining that whoever was on watch was also on Fianna duty, and if she woke up from a nightmare, it was their job to take care of her.

--

Imoen distracts her with stories and reminding her of their childhood misadventures around Candlekeep. And when her own nightmares come knocking, Fianna is ready to do the same.

Khalid and Jaheira 10/10 go into parenting mode. Khalid is there with a solid shoulder and a soothing presence, while Jaheira is happy to keep watch while Fianna sleeps.

Minsc and Boo are there with hugs, rousing reassurances, and lots of hamster cuddles. Boo is very wise after all. He knows that cuddles are the best solution.

Dynaheir calmly and confidently reassures her that the worse her dreams, the more she is resisting Bhaal's lure. She talks about some of the things she's witnessed on her travels all the same, to chase away the lingering malaise.

Rasaad invites her to meditate with him so that she can clear her mind. When that fails, he recites prayers and psalms that he finds soothing, and offers whatever comfort he can.

Skie insists on teaching her something she didn't know because if she wears herself out, she'll sleep better. So she teaches Fianna to dance and talks about etiquette and social rules among patriars and Grand Dukes - it is very effective at getting them both to fall asleep. Jaheira ends up scolding Skie for falling asleep on watch when that happens.

Yoshimo would tell tall tales of his endeavours, many of which are too tall to be believed, but drove away the shadows all the same. Though those tales go sorely missed once Fianna escaped Spellhold, a still warm, spasming heart wrapped tightly and stowed in the bottom of her bag.

Viconia does not do comforting, but prayer is an effective balm for a troubled night. Incense helps as well, and it's definitely a coincidence that she happens to always have some handy when she's on watch.

Cernd talks about nature. Fianna grew up dreaming of the world beyond Candlekeeps walls, and listening to Cernd talk about it in such an idyllic fashion brings back those same feelings of nostalgia for something she's never known.

Sarevok rolls his eyes at first. How pathetic his sister must be to be so deeply troubled by dreams. He mocks her at first for her supposed weakness, until he begins to change his own views. He sits with her in silence now, a silent guardian against their father's spectre. She does the same for him when the nightmares begin to plague him.