#she's very religious she was born Lutheran but she went to a Catholic school (it was private so i assume it's because it was being paid for

[bottomoftheriverbed]

Both sides of my family view religion as an incredibly personal thing so even if they're religious they tend not to talk about it a lot and church attendance is very much not mandatory and there is no greater example of this than the fact that we don't actually know whether or not my dad was baptised. He has an invitation to his uncle asking to be his godfather so we know what church he would have been baptised in (interestingly it's an anglican church in his mother's hometown rather than his local church - presumably a compromise between my (anglican) grandfather and my (baptist) great grandmother) but because his uncle hasn't signed it we're not actually a 100% sure he was in fact baptised.

[hernameisno-one]

on being nonbinary/trans and the struggle

so, basically everything in my life to do with gender often becomes overwhelming, confusing, or frustrating for me. i don’t know why it matters so much because i am all about deconstructing gender and i gendering a lot of things. if someone asked me what it means to be a man or a woman, i couldn’t tell you anything beyond the social implications and the biological hormonal influences. i also have a condition which makes my body produce too much testosterone. people with very gendered ideas of things, when they see some of my behaviors, comment on how x thing i did is a very “male” thing. or alternatively, suggest that i’m not very ladylike. . 

now, i am a feminine presenting person. i cannot pass as androgynous or masculine, and it’s more upsetting to try and fail. i don’t know why passing matters so much to me, it just does. that being said, i do like feminine things. my favorite color is pastel pink! i love dresses (honestly, feels like just wearing a giant shirt in public, but it’s acceptable? and wearing a dress means less planning for an outfit, at least for me), i like dolls, i’m highly empathetic, i’m nurturing, and i exhibit many other traditionally feminine traits/interests/etc. i was raised with femininity imposed upon me, however. as a child, i wanted to be like my brothers. i liked to fight and get dirty, played video games, enjoyed the ‘boy’ imagination games like cops and robbers, loved playing with “girl” and “boy” toys, and absolutely hated being forced to change my behavior to being more “ladylike.” i was the only one of my siblings that had strict manners forced upon them. as a kid, i struggled between the desire of being the princess and the prince. i also liked “girl” stuff, too. just, all of the things. i even wanted to be in the young marines, boy scouts (until i discovered i couldn’t and wanted to join girl scouts), and play loads of sports (soccer, basketball, gymnastics, dance). i never got to join anything, and the interest eventually faded, but that’s how i was. as a small child, a boy and girl friend and i all decided we were dating (until i was told that was impossible).

i was also raised with super religious ideals. i went to a lutheran school for a while though we were catholic. when i was 8, my family started studying with the jehovah’s witnesses. they have very strict ideas about gender as well, and are unaccepting of queer folk. i didn’t know what being gay was until middle school. in my junior year of high school, i discovered people could be trans. 

i was obsessed. i’d discovered kim petras, and was amazed that (please forgive me, these were my thoughts before) she had been a boy and was now a girl. this also stressed me out. i was anxious all the time anyway, but a new thought was coming into the mix: “could i be trans?” i immediately shut it down as soon as it came up. of course i couldn’t! and even if i was, i could never act on it. god wouldn’t accept it. so, i buried it. 

a few years later, i discovered i was bi/pan, and in the same moment realized the bible was wrong. i stopped fully believing in god, and was questioning his existence before (many years later) ultimately deciding i don’t believe. not long after that, i learned nonbinary-genderfluid was a thing and i embraced that. it finally felt right!

but i often felt like i was faking. i’d feel feminine for months, or even over a year. then, i’d feel masculine for long periods of time, too, but never without anxiety. never without questioning my “guy-ness” as just me being wishful. and then, there were times i just felt like nothing, no gender, just... just me.  

on top of all of this, having body dysmorphia wasn’t helping. no matter what gender i feel like, i feel as though i look horribly wrong. i’m a disgusting girl, i’d make a hideous guy, and i’m just all around repulsive. the gender dysphoria only exacerbated this. i’m saying this in past tense, but really this is where i’m at currently. 

and then, the struggle gets deeper. i’m terrified of men. 

not ALL men (ha), but generally, as a whole. being raised female, perceived as female, and treated female has hugely shaped my life. gender is one of the most influential identities on a person’s life. the struggle i’ve been through, the trauma, and the abuse are all very related to my being female. it was different for my brother (i mentioned having brothers [plural] before, but one was a cousin who was removed from my life when i was still young. i no longer think of him as a brother). they had different expectations of him and allowed him to get away with more. they expected less responsibility from him as well. when i asked why, i’d be told that it was different for a girl. i was also sexualized earlier, again, due to my female-ness. i understand not all men are terrible; some men are fantastic! but it’s very rare for me to find those men. i know several incredibly wonderful men who i feel very comfortable and secure around! and for each of them, three times as many who i don’t. 

going through what i’ve been through because i was female has shaped me. i’m not sure i’d be as strong or compassionate, as understanding as i am now. i don’t know the total depth of how my sex has shaped my life, but i know it’s vast. 

so, when asked if i could choose, would i pick to be born male... i struggle to produce an answer. if i had been born male, my life would be very different, and the person i am would not exist. however, if i were to go into create-a-sim (or any character creator, i guess), i’d choose to make myself male, but with feminine features. i like smaller shoulders and wider hips, larger butt (pear shape), and soft facial features. i prefer this look in both men and women when it comes to attraction (although, lets be real, it’s rare in men). still, i would choose, if i could, to be an androgynous-leaning-towards-feminine male. 

unfortunately, what i want is impossible. 

i don’t know how to make these feelings stop, how to convince myself that i am more than my body or my gender. i usually ignore it, mostly. it can really be a struggle. sometimes, i feel gender confident, sometimes i feel fake, sometimes i don’t care at all. 

i hope someday, i find a way to be comfortable with it all, or most of the time. mostly, i hope that i can accept myself and be surrounded only by people who accept me as well. 

[cowboyjen68]

If it's not too personal, can I ask what your relationship is with religion - if you're religious, or how religious communities affect you/have affected you in the past regarding your sexuality, and how you've navigated it? I'm bisexual living in the midwest too and I struggle a lot with my religion and the religious culture out here

I was actually quite lucky for a midwest kid. I don’t recall ever going to church with my parents. Mom mentioned once or twice that she was raised Methodist, but that was about it. At best, by mom was apathetic towards religion, although she probably believed in Chistianity on some level simply because that is “what you do”.  Dad said he’d never waste time in a church except for weddings and funerals because mom said he had go. He was, in practice, if not consciously an athiest. None of us kids were baptised.. .they figured we could decide when we were older.  My oldest brother (he passed away)  and I are athiests. My sister’s husband gave up real estate to be a Lutheran Minister and my brother and his wife are some sort of born again Christians. 

My neighbors until fourth grade helped raise me and their family was very close to mine.. we vacationed together and everything. They were Catholic and I attended church with them..I mostly remember Bingo nights. When I was older my best friend from 4th grade on was Lutheran and went with her sometimes. My mom was not above shoving me off to any old free church day camp just to keep me busy so I was exposed to a lot of stuff. In my early teens my sister in law took me to her church and they had a band and talked in “tongues” and danced. I was unimpressed, but they gave me a free shirt with the devil on it and a big red circle and line through him… so..that was cool. 

I have a minor in religion. By college I pretty much thought all religion was a man made construct to control people. I still do. But I also saw they value in the community they offered people who needed to find that.  I have studied all of the major religions and many minor ones. While I don’t believe any of it, I also respect the fact that people can choose what suits them and it is not for me to judge. 

However, I could not always escape the pressures of religion. Christianity really perminates every aspect of our lives in America. From day one it teaches such wonderful (sarcasm) little ideas such as women are less, we are “unclean”. Children are something that are owned. Animals have no souls, therefore feel no pain and on and on. Any old bullshit that will make it easier to control the majority of the people AND to make cruelty okay.  

I have seen many LGBT kids and their parents damaged by their inability to reconcile their religion with the reality of their orientation or gender ID. I want to yell “drop the religion..it is not real… you don’t need it.. you need your family and they need you”.  What I am supposed to say is “ maybe find another church that accepts LGBT”. 

It took me going to college and studying religion to really figure out how much of a false foundation (based on religion) we build so much of our hate, anger, self loathing upon. Once I realised that, it was easy to start rethinking all of those things and understanding why some people can’t let go of their religion even for those they love. 

At our gay pride we have vendors from the Jewish synagogue and 5 or 6 Christan Churches, but I also invited  the Athiests and Humanists. Next year I will be inviting the Church of the Flying Spahgetti Monster and The Satanic Temple (not about satan at all--look them up.. their tenent are AMAZING) Like many LGBT people I do not trust the intentions of Christianity OR other religions so I make  sure that I have many sides represented at Gay Pride and in any vendor events. I have noticed that I do not have to outreach to Christian Churches.. they find me.. 

I am lucky because I don’ t need religion to validate me or to make me feel safe in my world.  In fact, I would feel more safe if they went away. I treat everyone and their beliefs about religion with kindness and respect, even if inside I am thinking “WTF?” I rarely challenge someone who is using religion to justify hate. First “Easy Target”. Second I don’t really care what they think and third. IF they are that far devoted into a belief system, I don’t want to waste my time. 

Our “Christian” history is flawed and, in general quite awful.  There are churches out there who are “accepting and affirming” their words..not mine. So if you need that.. find one if that if what you need/want.  DON”T join a shitty church or stay with one because You can change it from the inside. Walk away. Not your burden to bear.  When Catholic School teachers are fired for being gay WHY IS ANYONE surprised? Same with staying with a church that hates something about your very being. Find a better place that does not cause you harm.

I teach my kids: Beware of any religion (or person)who bases their “love” on conditions. Or if you see that a religion has a history of hate, mis behavior, misogony, and then start talking a good game (The Pope is master of vague supportive speech--knowing full well the religion will not change) beware of their intentiions. 

Links below are  for some Non religion religions that help people to understand how our religious foundation is basically built on sand and lies and there are better ways and communites that exist if you need that. 

https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/tenets

https://www.venganza.org/

[heavyarethecrowns]

People that have married in the Royal Families since 1800

Sweden

Eugénie Bernardine Désirée Clary better known as  Désirée Clary (8 November 1777 – 17 December 1860) 

Clary was born in Marseille, France, the daughter of François Clary a wealthy silk manufacturer and merchant, by his second wife Françoise Rose Somis Eugénie was normally used as her name of address.

Clary had a sister and brother to whom she remained very close all her life. Her sister, Julie Clary, married Joseph Bonaparte, and later became Queen of Naples and Spain. Her brother, Nicholas Joseph Clary, was created 1st Count Clary

As a child, Clary received the convent schooling usually given to daughters of the upper classes in pre-revolutionary France. However, when she was barely eleven years old, the French Revolution of 1789 took place, and convents were closed. Clary returned to live with her parents, and was perforce home-schooled thereafter. Later, her education would be described as shallow.

In 1794, Clary's father died. Shortly after, it was discovered that in the years before the revolution, he had made an appeal to be ennobled, a request that had been denied. Because of this, Désirée Clary's brother Etienne, now the head of the family and her guardian, was arrested. 

Désirée Clary met Joseph Bonaparte and was introduced to her family. Bonaparte and Clary were engaged, and his brother Napoleon Bonaparte also met her family. Soon Joseph was engaged instead to her older sister Julie while Napoleon was engaged to Désirée Clary on 21 April 1795. In 1795–1797

Clary lived with her mother in Genoa in Italy, where her brother-in-law Joseph had a diplomatic mission; they were also joined by the Bonaparte family. In 1795, Napoleon became involved with Joséphine de Beauharnais and broke the engagement to Clary on 6 September. He married Joséphine in 1796. 

In 1797, Clary went to live in Rome with her sister Julie and her brother-in-law Joseph, who was French ambassador to the Papal States. Her relationship with Julie remained close. She was briefly engaged to Mathurin-Léonard Duphot, a French general. The engagement has been assumed to be Napoleon's idea to compensate her with a marriage, while Duphot was attracted to her dowry and position as sister-in-law of Napoleon. She agreed to the engagement though Duphot had a long-term relationship and a son with another woman. On 30 December 1797, on the eve of their marriage, Duphot was killed in an anti-French riot outside of their residence Palazzo Corsini in Rome.In later years, Clary vehemently denied that her engagement to Duphot had ever existed

After her return to France, Clary lived with Julie and Joseph in Paris. In Paris, she lived in the circle of the Bonaparte family, who sided with her against Josephine after Napoleon had broken off their engagement. She herself did not like Josephine either, as she has been quoted calling her an aged courtesan with a deservedly bad reputation, but she is not believed to have shown any hostility toward Josephine as did the members of the Bonaparte family. She received a proposal from General Junot, but turned it down because it was given through Marmont.Clary eventually met her future spouse, Jean Baptiste Jules Bernadotte, another French general and politician. They were married in a secular ceremony at Sceaux on 17 August 1798. In the marriage contract, Clary was given economic independence. On 4 July 1799, she gave birth to their only child, a son, Oscar.

In August 1810, Bernadotte's husband was elected heir to the throne of Sweden and she heiress, now in that position being given the official name of Desideria. She initially thought this was to be similar to the position of Prince of Pontecorvo, and did not expect to have to visit Sweden more than she had been forced to visit Pontecorvo: "I thought, that it was at it had been with Ponte Corvo, a place from where we would have a title."She was later to admit, that she had never cared about any other country than France and knew nothing of foreign countries nor did she care about them, and that she was in despair when she was told that this time, she would be expected to leave Paris. Desideria delayed her departure and did not leave with her spouse. She was delighted with the position she had received at the French court after her elevation to crown princess (she had been invited to court events every week), and she was frightened by the stories of her reluctant French servants, who tried to discourage her from leaving by saying that Sweden was a country close to the North Pole filled with Polar bears.Finally, she left Paris and traveled by Hamburg and Kronborg in Denmark over the Öresund to Helsingborg in Sweden.

On 22 December 1810, Desideria arrived with her son Oscar in Helsingborg in Sweden, and the 6 January 1811, she was introduced to the Swedish royal court at the Royal Palace in Stockholm. The Swedish climate was reportedly a shock for her: she arrived during the winter, and she hated the snow so much that she cried. Her spouse had converted upon his election as heir to the Swedish throne, and upon their arrival, her son was also to do so, as was required, and was taken from her to be brought up a Lutheran. There was, in accordance with the Tolerance Act, no demand that she should convert, and a Catholic chapel was arranged for her use. Desideria was not religious,but the Catholic masses served to remind her of France, and she celebrated the birth of the son of Napoleon, the King of Rome, by a Te Deum in her chapel. 

Desideria was unable to adapt to the demands of formal court etiquette or participate in the representational duties which were required of her in her position of Crown Princess. Her French entourage, especially Elise la Flotte, made her unpopular during her stay in Sweden by encouraging her to complain about everything.She did not have a good relationship with Queen Hedwig Elizabeth Charlotte, though the Dowager Queen Sophia Magdalena was reportedly kind to her. In her famous diaries, Queen Charlotte described her as good hearted, generous and pleasant when she chose to be and not one to plot, but also an immature "spoiled child", who hated all demands and was unable to handle any form of representation, and as "a French woman in every inch" who disliked and complained about everything which was not French, and "consequently, she is not liked." Queen Charlotte, who wanted to remain the center of attention at her own court, was not pleased with Desideria and also influenced King Charles against her. 

Desideria left Sweden in the summer of 1811 under the name of Countess of Gotland, officially because of her health, and returned to Paris, leaving her husband and her son behind. She herself said that the Swedish nobility had treated her as if they were made of ice: "Do not talk with me of Stockholm, I get a cold as soon as I hear the word." In Sweden, her husband took a mistress, the noble Mariana Koskull. Under the same alias Desideria officially resided incognito in Paris, thereby avoiding politics. However, her house at rue d'Anjou was watched by the secret police, and her letters were read by them. She had no court, just her lady's companion Elise la Flotte to assist her as hostess at her receptions, and she mostly associated with a circle of close friends and family.

In 1818, her husband became King of Sweden, which made Desideria Queen. However, she remained in France, officially for health reasons. After she became Queen, the Swedish Queen Dowager wrote to her and suggested that she should have Swedish ladies-in-waiting, but she replied that it was unnecessary for her to have a court as she still resided incognito. She officially kept herself incognito and did not host any court, but she kept in contact with the Swedish embassy, regularly visited the court of Louis XVIII and often saw Swedes at her receptions, which she hosted on Thursdays and Sundays, unofficially in her role as queen, though she still used the title of countess. 

During this period, she fell in love with the French prime minister, the Duc de Richelieu, which attracted attention. According to one version, she fell in love with him after Louis XVIII had given him the task to deny her regular appeal for her sister Julie in the most charming way possible. True or not, she did fall in love with him, but the affection was not answered by Richelieu, who referred to her as his "crazy Queen". According to Laure Junot, she did not dare to speak to him or approach him, but she followed him wherever he went, tried to make contact with him, followed him on his trip to Spa and had flowers placed in his room. She followed him around until his death in 1822.

During the summer of 1822, her son Oscar made a trip in Europe to inspect prospective brides, and it was decided they should meet. As France was deemed unsuitable, they met in Aachen and a second time in Switzerland. In 1823, Desideria returned to Sweden together with her son's bride, Josephine of Leuchtenberg. It was intended to be a visit, but she was to remain in Sweden for the rest of her life. She and Josephine arrived in Stockholm 13 June 1823. Three days later, the royal court and the government was presented to her, and 19 June, she participated in the official welcoming of Josephine and witnessed the wedding

On 21 August 1829, she was crowned Queen of Sweden in Storkyrkan in Stockholm. Her coronation had been suggested upon her return, but her consort had postponed it because he feared there could be religious difficulties. There was actually a suggestion that she should convert to the Lutheran faith before her coronation, but in the end, the question was not considered important enough to press, and she was crowned all the same. She was crowned at her own request after having pressed Charles John with a wish that she should be crowned: "otherwise she would be no proper Queen". A reason for this is believed to have been that she regarded it as protection against divorce

The relationship between her and her husband King Charles XIV John was somewhat distant, but friendly. Charles John treated her with some irritability, while she behaved very freely and informally toward him. The court was astonished by her informal behavior. She could enter his bedroom and stay there until late at night even though he hinted to her that he wished to be alone with his favorite Count Magnus Brahe. Every morning, she visited her husband in her nightgown, which was seen as shocking, because her husband usually conferred with members of the council of state in his bed chamber at that time. Because of their difference in habits, they seldom saw each other even though they lived together. Because she was always late at dinner, for example, he stopped having his meals with her, and as he also preferred to have his meals alone, it was not uncommon for the nobles of the court to sit alone at the dinner table, without the royal couple present

The 1830s were a period when she did her best to be active as a queen, a role she had never wanted to play. The decade is described as a time of balls and parties, more than had been seen at the Swedish court since the days of King Gustav III, but Desideria soon grew tired of her royal status and wanted to return to France. However, her husband did not allow it. As queen she is mostly known for her eccentric habits. She is known to have kept reversed hours and, consequently, for often being late and keeping guests waiting, something which agitated her spouse. Normally, she retired at four in the morning, and awoke at two o'clock in the afternoon. Before she went to bed, she took a "walk by carriage": during these trips, she often paid unannounced visits, which were normally inconvenient because of the time. When the weather was bad, her carriage drove round the courtyard of the royal palace instead. It was normal for her to arrive for a visit to an opera when the show had ended.

Desideria was interested in fashion, devoted a lot of interest and pride in her hair and wore low cut dresses until an advanced age. She enjoyed dancing: her standard question at court presentations were if the debutantes liked to dance, and she herself danced well also during her old age. Her conversations were mainly about her old life in France. Her niece, Marcelle Tascher de la Pagerie, served as her Mistress of the Robes her first years as queen and also her main company, as she could speak to her of her main topic, her old life. After her niece had returned to France, she often socialized with the rich merchant Carl Abraham Arfwedson, who had once been a guest in her childhood home.She never became very popular at the royal court, where she was regarded with some snobbery because of her past as a merchant's daughter and a republican. She never learned to speak the Swedish language, and there are many anecdotes of her attempts to speak the language.

In 1844, Charles XIV John died and Desideria became Queen Dowager. Her son, the new King Oscar I, allowed her to keep her usual quarters in the Royal Palace as well as her entire court, so she would not have to change her habits. When her daughter-in-law Queen Josephine tried to convince her to reduce her court of her own free will, saying she no longer needed such a big court as a queen dowager, she answered: "It is true that I no longer need them all, but all of them still need me." She was a considerate and well-liked employer among her staff. One notable member of her court was Countess Clara Bonde, who was described as a personal friend and served the queen from her return to Sweden until her death. 

Desideria did engage in charity but it was discreet, and it has been said: "Her charity was considerable but took place in silence". One example was that she supported poor upper-class women by giving them sewing work. She also acted as official protector of charitable institutions, such as the Women's Society Girl School. The same year she became a widow, she was described by the French diplomat Bacourt: "Royalty has not altered her — unfortunately, for the reputation of the Crown. She has always been and will always remain an ordinary merchant woman, surprised over her position, and surprising to find upon a throne."He also added that she was a goodhearted woman.

After becoming a widow, she grew more and more eccentric. She went to bed in the morning, got up in the evening, ate breakfast at night and wandered around the corridors of the sleeping palace with a light. Desideria sometimes would take in children from the streets to the palace and give them sweets; she was not able to engage in any real conversation, but she would say "Kom, kom!" (Swedish for "Come come!") There are stories about people having been awakened by her carriage when she drove through the streets at night. The carriage sometimes stopped; she would sleep for a while, and then she would wake and the carriage would continue on its way. Her habit or circling the courtyard in her coach she called "Kring kring" (Swedish for "around and around"), one of the few Swedish words she learned.

On the last day of her life, Queen Desideria entered her box at the Royal Swedish Opera just after the performance had ended, and collapsed before reaching her apartment upon returning to Stockholm Palace on 17 December 1860.