#specific parts of the fandom that i've seen that i think is immature at best and *incredibly* iffy at worst

[raytorosaurus]

pls tell me you don't think disliking lynz is misogynistic lol i must've misinterpreted that

nope! it's totally fine to dislike lynz, i also don't like her myself. she's said some very questionable things and MSI grosses me out, as does her association with jimmy urine. i already know people will want to take this the wrong way so i want to make it clear that i'm not defending any of that. i'm pointing out an irritating mindless pattern of behaviour in this fandom that is immature and reductive at best and misogynistic at worst, which includes:

1. the intensity of the vitriol that is directed at her being disproportionate to most of the men ppl blog about who have done/said similar, if not much worse, things. and honestly in a lot of cases disproportionate to what she's actually done

2. the fact that i see so many people (especially on twitter) blindly jumping on the bandwagon of hating on her often without knowing what exactly it is they're hating her for - and even then, most of the reasons i see parrotted on twitter are either contextless and overexaggerated or not even one of the aforementioned valid reasons for disliking her. i don't know how to tell you this but if you believe everything on lynzuglyliar you need to reevaluate how you engage with information on the internet lol

3. the level of glee with which people hate on her, which truly smacks of old-school fandom misogyny reserved for women who marry your faves or get in the way of your favourite ship. on twitter especially it honestly truly feels like people are delighted to have a wife of the band they're "allowed" to hate on lol. i know a lot of that is coming from teenagers who will grow up and learn more self-awareness but that doesn't make it any less annoying or disappointing to see

4. the ridiculous mental gymnastics required to hate her so much while continuing to be a fan of the person who is married to her and in love with her lmao. sorry but if you truly think she's that irredeemable why are you still here

like. i hate msi and i go out of my way to avoid listening to them. but it's worth keeping in mind that the kind of shock-jock edgy gross music they wrote was not exclusive to msi in the 2000s. i hate it too and think it's stupid and counterproductive to whatever point it's supposedly trying to make but it was like. a thing for a while unfortunately. it was bad at the time and it aged even worse, but gerard and frank at the very least, and probably the others too, vocally enjoyed it. frank voluntarily chose to tour with msi and mcr performed with them multiple times and were always excited about it. if you truly think lynz's involvement with that band is indefensible, you should extend at least part of that criticism to mcr too. the amount of times i've seen people saying "omg frank hates lynz so much" is fucking ridiculous, and it's based entirely on the same kind of conjecture that led people to believe mcr didn't remain close friends after the breakup lol. if you have to make up things like that - or worse, make up and spread infidelity rumours or actual domestic abuse allegations (it's not even rare to see this on twitter) - to excuse their association with lynz/msi, you need to take a look at yourself tbh

this is partly a twitter-specific problem because that platform is literally set up to disallow meaningful or nuanced conversation but it's really exhausting to see hundreds of snippy "she's the devil" tweets and if you say anything vaguely critical of the the way fandom treats her you get immediately shot down with "why are you defending A Racist" with zero context or clarification. i hate to break it to you but if lynz is A Racist of an irredeemable level, so is gerard. hell, so is frank for blindly listening to and promoting black metal bands with nazi associations when he as a metal fan should know better and do his research. lynz's racism in question is the kind that's overwhelmingly common among liberal white women who are into witchcraft-type stuff. again, i am not condoning it, it's still wrong, but you cannot hold her to different standards than you do the guys in mcr. i'm just saying if you're able to acknowledge gerard's questionable statements and attitudes in the past, condemn them, acknowledge that he's changing and learning, but still go on liking him as a person and supporting his art...what is the reason you can't do the same for lynz.

i've seen people on twitter accuse lynz of plagiarism in an impressively tone-deaf misinterpretation of her art genre, sometimes the same people who would call gerard doing something similar a clever reference. i have literally seen people quote male members of MSI making sexually objectifying and openly misogynistic comments about lynz as some kind of gotcha saying "look, even her bandmates don't respect her" and like...if you can't see something deeply wrong with that i don't know what to tell you. i've seen COUNTLESS people bring up vague information "revealed" by her actual estranged family members on twitter after people stalked them to try to get dirt on lynz and if you think parroting back contextless one-sided information from other people's private family drama isn't a) about the least reliable source of information ever and b) deeply disgusting and inappropriate, i really don't know what to tell you

if you despise lynz to the point where you're in mcr's comments telling gerard to divorce her (again. i shouldn't have to say that this is disgusting behaviour) or booing when they perform summertime or accusing her of infidelity or abuse (which i cannot stress enough are rumours originally made up by frerard tinhatters) or anything like that, why are you even here. like what mental gymnastics are you doing to be able to remain a fan of gerard at this point. none of this is activism, if anything it's counterproductive to your point because it's indicative of the lack of critical thinking or maturity that's necessary when you're engaging with topics like casual/unconscious racism and normalised sexual abuse in the music industry

i'm probably not going to say more about this because this isn't really the hill i want to die on considering i don't even particularly like her myself but please i am begging you approach your dislike of lynz with just a little bit of critical thought and self-awareness instead of just blindly despising her for things that most of the men we blog about are also guilty of.

[cubedmango]

hi!! i just wanted to let you know that i started reading cherry magic in july last year after seeing the anime announced on toyota-sensei's twitter! i couldn't even rlly translate the announcement myself without the help of google translate LMAO but her illustration of them looked so sweet i had to snoop around. more than half a year later. i am no longer normal and my brain is fully rotted over and i think of those two nearly every waking moment!! your art, along with so many others feeds me and your translations are So Appreciated thank you for doing gods work. i usually don't get super involved in fandom or w/e other than consuming fanart or fics so the fact i find myself actually drawing them is so new to me...idk cherry magic really is so refreshing and it's just nice as an adult to see a mature relationship between two working adults. there are callbacks to childhood or childlike behaviors or interests sprinkled throughout the manga's dialogue and i always appreciated how they weren't seen as embarrassing or immature to embrace or learn from as an adult, but encouraged or seen as a valuable part of balancing work, life, and love. idk it's def one of the more subtle and less expanded upon parts of it but i love how adachi's and kurosawa's love of manga, though seen as a children's activity (from how kurosawa thought people saw it) was actually one of their first mutual hobbies. it's also interesting to see how many things about kurosawa's psyche are remnants of ideas probably for a lack of better wording, were taught to him from an early age. his self-image, how he tries to uphold certain societal standards, etc etc. im glad he found refuge in adachi that way. im sorry for rambling for so long but i've just been thinking about these two so much ldks

anon pls u never have to apologize for rambling abt my fav guys of all time, u should actually talk w me about them more i want to hear ur thoughts !! the eng speaking fandom isnt that big (or at least i dont get to interact w a lot of ppl personally) but its fun making art and doing the translations for my blorbos so im happy other ppl enjoy it too 🥺

and yess everything u said abt the childlike/immature stuff krdc enjoy like the fact that their interest in manga and stuff is never made fun of or anything (which would be ironic anyway since theyre In a manga themselves fdkjskf) but actually one of the things that gets them closer is So good augh?? (also spoilers for the radio drama if u havent seen it yet, but to me one of the best changes they made was changing the port scenes setting to an anime con instead like Yeah!! theyre little nerd guys of course theyd attend a con!!!! that plus how they both like watching animated movies and playing games too like its a very specific thing to Me but that relatability w stuff i do myself makes them both feel a lot more human? if that makes sense)

also w kurosawas whole deal its Definitely a longterm thing hes had for a while, and in canon its mostly been his friendships/relationships that affected him (probs the most clear in ch45 my beloved) but from the way the meeting w his parents went theres for sure a lot of parental/family pressure involved too?? this is going into hc territory but i have like a whole Thing brewing in my head about kurosawas and maris relations w their parents and how that affected their self image and all growing up too and i rlly wanna make stuff for it someday (idk if anyone would be interested but id probably do it regardless so fkdjksjfk)

[sovereignspades]

hey, u do batim and cuphead art and i just wanted to ask a question like i don't want to sound rude it's something i want to be sure of myself even for personal reasons but.... it's understandable that I'm afraid to look at blogs of BATIM x Cuphead crossover AU's because I was into a specific ask comic in the past whose creator was a horrible degenerate human being that I'm disgusted to have been a fan of, and now I'm afraid to look at blogs with similar concept to that AU because the designs of the characters (and occasionally the art style in general) chosen by the artists are very similar? or am i just being a dramatic asshole?

I'm afraid I'm judging innocent people simply for using the same designs and art style on all the AU's I've seen. like, bendy with the goggles, Cuphead with the bangs, both boris and Mugs having scarves(?) around their necks(I guess that counts as a scarf?) are designs that just remind me of that artist and their comic… and because Of the things that artist did, I end up liking that comic and the designs with them…

I'm very afraid to look deep into these blogs because of that and I don't want to! I just don't feel very comfortable… I want to appreciate that part of the communities, the artists and everything they do, but the mere use of the designs makes me uncomfortable because of the bad memories about that artist…

I just want to hear from you artists about my fears and whether I'm being immature or just being an asshole. I don't mean to be rude to you guys, I see these are iconic designs and I like them too! I'm also a hypocrite because I've been inspired by these designs in the past, but I just want to hear from you guys. Is it wrong the way I feel? I feel like I shouldn't feel this way, but I just do...

Sorry for the long text, I just want to be able to open up about this issue of mine at the moment (I also want to remain anonymous, I don't feel comfortable talking about it…)

Hey Anon! Your not being dramatic, immature or rude, your feelings are totally valid and It's completely understandable ^^! The comic in question is Bendy and Boris in The Quest For The Ink Machine, and yes the original creator is absolutely horrid.

For me, I really liked the story, the style, the characters, the designs, so... I separate the content from the creator. (we take the cool stuff back ya know?) A lot of people do this with the content they like that have not great creators, a popular example is Harry Potter. Some like the story and the characters and the concept, but despise the creator because they aren't a good person.

The only thing I will say is curate you own internet environment and don't go out and attack people who enjoy it, get inspired by it, want to make their own spin off/continuation, or have a similar concept, stuff like that ^^ (and I'm not saying that is what you're doing here bud).

For any fandom in general, and I'll try to explain this as best as I can, but someone can probably say this better xD Every fandom has good and bad eggs, I think it's good to remember that especially if the original creator is not great? That not everyone who enjoys the story, the art style, and the characters, are as bad as the creator, and that they can recognize the bad things and acknowledge they are bad and don't agree with/condone them.

But hey, if you don't feel comfortable and are pretty weary about something, then that is how it is, no one is forcing you to stick around or change your way of thinking. Only you, yourself have the power to do that. You have the power to close out and look at something else, to mold your internet experience to be one that will be enjoyable for you. If you don't want to be feeling that way anymore then take healthy step towards that if that is what you want to do. If you like what you see but want to look more into just to be safe then do it, do your own research ^^ and you can decide whether you want to stick around or not.

There are a lot of things that come into play, like the time frame, how people are in the past vs. the now, change and stuff like that, however I think this is a good two of my cents.

I hope this helps ^^

~♠️

[sweettsubaki]

Girl, you guys are too sensitive when it comes to Buck. NO ONE is bashing him, it's all about feeling sympathetic towards Eddie and the position he's in / his point of view. But then again there's always been a MASSIVE favoritism towards Buck over anyone in the fandom, leading you guys to become misogynistic and apologists of tbh shitty behaviors. Like Taylor? Yeah I never liked her at all, but that shit that Buck pulled with her? Fuck no. Season 1 Buck? Fuck no. Buck has really grown as a person, we love him, but the majority of you have a favoritism that's always been based on attraction and it shows on the way you speak and showcase your opinions.

Usually starting a sentence by "you're too sensitive" is very much used to gaslight someone so, heads up, I'm likely not gonna take what you say afterwards very seriously. Especially since you're on anonymous. Also I'm known for a lot of things but sensitivity isn't one of them...Kinda the opposite even. But I am easily frustrated and I did vent, which as far as I'm aware shouldn't matter to you.

"no one is bashing him it's all about feeling sympathetic toward Eddie".

Ok so either you haven't seen the numerous posts I'm talking about and you took it upon yourself to speak for everyone or you don't know what bashing is. Either way not the best look for you but I have seen many (stopped counting at around 50 posts) talking about how Buck is an ass for daring to say that to Eddie. Not "poor Eddie's been rejected" but very much "Eddie deserves better than someone who doesn't appreciate him" posts (I've literally seen at least a dozen variation of this sentence), often followed by people using that as a proof that Buddie is toxic actually. And just generally very little critical thinking involved and changing the whole scene to mean what they want.

There might be favoritism toward Buck. Probably, most likely tbh. I mostly follow buddie blogs with either a buck or Eddie focus and other more general blogs with no focus at all. Buddie's the most engaging part of the fandom and the funniest for me in general. Because I follow Eddie girlies as much as Buck ones I don't see the difference and I generally don't venture too far away 'cause Chim is my favorite and I've seen too much racism when wanting to look for him so I stopped venturing too far off the fun people who make meta that seem a bit too much but are still enjoyable.

Now even if I personally didn't witness it because I've curated my own experience on Tumblr and don't interact about 911 on any other social media, he's the young White Adult in a fox procedural. So I'm not surprised there'd be favoritism towards him in a mostly American/western fandom. I've just been talking about this specific situation because it managed to hit my recluse corner which is a feat in itself.

Now that also doesn't matter in this case. Like there being favoritism in general doesn't change that there has been bashing here. If you don't care about it or feel vindictive about it then good for you but that's clearly not my case. That's why I avoid it in the first place.

Now I'm probably biased because I've curated my experience but as far as I'm aware, most people don't like season 1 Buck ? Never seen someone who loved this side of him. Because he was the youngest and most immature, it's easy to focalize on him if you like long ass development, but that's it. And most ppl who talk about s1 talk about it in a "look how much he grew" way so I have no idea why you're bringing it up?

As for TK, you can despise her without it being related to Buck. I personally found her appealing as a character, but the same way I find villains appealing. I very much loved to hate her. The woman does not care about others and will step on them to get what she wants even if she violates all moral ethics and loved ones to do so. You can dislike what she did to Buck without caring for Buck, like in a collateral damage way. But I get people absolutely hating her (I draw the line at mysogynistic behaviors which I luckily mostly avoided but I don't doubt they were there). Buck was an ass yes but he felt guilty about it and also learned and grew from it ...still is learning from it actually. That's a huge difference in my book and probably others. There are no unproblematic characters, just characters willing to be better and those which aren't (relatively speaking since it depends on what the writers find problematic). I mean Hen cheated on Karen (which I still do not comprehend in the slightest), Bobby is linked to the death of his kids, Eddie abandoned his child for years. Chim is the one who did the least problematic thing in general because he's the one with the most empathy and the closest thing I can think of is punching someone he loves when distressed and panicking about someone he also loves. And I've heard Chim got a lot of racist shit from it and while I have no doubt it's true, my curated experience means I didn't have to deal with it.

As for your last point, I happen to be aroace and I'm the kind who only understand what attraction means as a very abstract concept. (I especially don't think muscles are all that interesting but I'm happy for the people who like thirsting over big muscles).

And so like...yeah I've seen people thirst over the actor (as much as Eddie's), but thinking that people who are basically just talking about media literacy and "how the fuck are there enough posts that they ended up in my circle that's usually undramatic as fuck", are doing so just because they're attracted to the actor seems a bit bad faith.

So maybe the bashing only happened in this corner I thought would prevent me from seeing character bashing and needless drama, but it's still happened and it went from funny memes (which I liked and still have queued) to literal tirades of how Buddie is toxic and Buck is the worst. That wasn't me exaggerating, they literally said stuff like that. Which is a terrible take, like how do you even get to this point. So I vented and you thought it was a good idea to come to my inbox to ...I'm not even sure what this is for...warn me ? Annoy me? Insult me? Something else?, well whichever, I'm just using it to vent some more...because holy shit have I seen dumb takes in the past few days.

[oimoi-op]

Love to see folks bitching about TROP because it’s not “lore accurate” or doesn’t look Tolkienesque or gives off WoT/GoT vibes while said folks are also making direct comparisons to the Peter Jackson movies of all things, like yes there are actual things to be wary of regarding the series but noooooo they just have to be clowns that bring up the fucking movies as though they were the pinnacle of faithfulness to the source material lol

[bluerosesburnblue]

Bless that post. I love the aro/ace headcanon, but I also love all mc/charlie shippers. Basically, I'm very very Pro-Ship and like... I've seen the people who headcanon aro/ace charlie get really hostile and weirdly aggressive over it. I'm pretty sure one person even deactivated their account because they dared to call out the harrasment and were in turn harrassed themselves. Fandom is supposed to be fun and shipping should never be about activism like some ppl are trying to do and it boggles me

Thank you. Given the extremes people go to on this site, it’s nice to see someone else who agrees with me about keeping these things measured and respectful

Honestly, my breaking point the other night was that I happened to see an anon on one of the really popular blogs in the fandom. All they said was that they were a fan of the ace headcanon, but they saw a lot of the negativity in the tag in regards to the Charlie/MC ship and were worried that if they started posting their stuff regarding it that they’d get backlash or get seen as insensitive. The whole thing looked like someone who was very anxious asking someone they respected if they thought it would be appropriate. They probably trusted that blog to be mature and give them some reassurance

The response they got was basically (I’m paraphrasing here) “The ace ‘headcanon’ is undeniably canon, you can still post your thing but just know that it’s not canon and nobody has to like the fact that you posted it. I don’t know what hate you’re seeing, but I haven’t seen it and I don’t think it exists.” Which is, like… denying that anon’s experience and brushing off their fears is just a shitty thing to do to someone who was obviously nervous and looking for reassurance. And also completely wrong. Just because you can read that interpretation into a canon line doesn’t mean that your interpretation is completely canonical. Dating and romantic or sexual attraction are not the same thing. And it’s bad enough that that response is getting a good amount of notes

But what really pissed me off was a response I saw from someone else on that post. This person immediately accused that anon of intentionally overreacting and fishing for sympathy, crossing the line by asking someone they respected about their opinion of the discourse, and trying to deny asexual people representation. And they had the nerve to go on about how “people you thought were nice are turning out to be shitty people.” And then told that anon to grow up

That is absolutely disgusting behavior. Even if Charlie was canonically aro/ace, it would be going too far. Nobody knows anything about that anon, because they’re a goddamned anon. For all anybody knows, that anon could’ve been a kid or young teen who legitimately wanted to be respectful to the ace/aro community and thought it best to ask someone they respected what their opinion was. This is exactly what I was afraid was going to start up. That the second somebody showed that they didn’t agree with the popular interpretation or, god forbid, admitted that they don’t know enough and wanted another opinion, that they’d get slammed and harassed, with accusations made about their character. A character that we can’t even truly know because this is the internet and it’s easy to read whatever you want into these things. You’re not “educating” anyone, you’re just making them not want to learn

And then that original blog had the gall to tell that anon that they didn’t see any reason why they’d be afraid of harassment. When that aggressive, uncalled for response was a response on their post

The best part? Not only did that anon directly cite a post that had bothered them in a later ask, but they admitted that they were ace and questioning aro and just didn’t see why that line made the interpretation canon

And the person who slammed them? Not aro/ace.

As far as I can tell, that anon never got an apology. The sidequest isn’t even out yet and the fandom has already devolved into people making assumptions and yelling over actual ace people over their own representation and refusing to see a problem with it. In fact, they think they’re in the right because quite a few popular blogs agree with them. That anon could’ve been a kid. Are we really going to scream at people who might be kids over a headcanon?

Not a single, goddamned person made any effort to say that that person was out of line. Not a single person saw a problem with that response. I’d say it was just that one person in the wrong, but I’ve seen equally harsh and aggressive responses by other people out there, too. This isn’t a situation of one person being an asshole (if it was I might’ve just called them out, specifically), they just happened to be the one to tip me over the edge

That’s what’s pissing me off about this situation. If someone is legitimately so scared to post something completely harmless that goes against the popular interpretation, then there is a problem. There is a problem, that shouldn’t be ignored just because you might disagree with that anon’s opinion. People don’t get that scared for no reason. It’s awful and immature to ignore the problem. To pretend it doesn’t exist, or to support the response they got and double down just to make yourself look right

People are really getting this awful over a side character in a mobile game. Just back up and really look at that. A side character. In a mobile game.

Some people need to grow up, and it sure ain’t that anon. And I hope that if that anon ever sees this, they know that they’ve got my support and I’m so sorry that some people think asserting that their headcanon is canon is more important than an actual, living person

As for the “it’s canon do we really have to spell it out for you?” argument, uhhh… YEAH. Not them, specifically, but the source material does. Otherwise it’s not CANON. Canon is reserved for things irrefutably stated in the text not “all possible (or your favorite) ways you could interpret lines in the text.” When it’s widely accepted, that’s fanon. Canon: Charlie states that he doesn’t have time for dating because he’s busy studying dragons. Fanon: Charlie is ace/aro. We also need to destroy this false equivalency that dating and romantic attraction are the same thing. It doesn’t help anybody on either side

And no joke, I read a novel one time and the main character was so obviously ace to me. The whole thing was written from his point of view, and he was always questioning why people found romance to be so important. He wasn’t into any of the girls that flirted with him, he kissed his male best friend and said he didn’t feel any sparks, he avoided romance of all kinds even while questioning his sexuality. Well, come the end of the book, he realizes that he was gay and in denial and VERY in love with his best friend. It was adorable when they got together

But at the same time, there was way more evidence to suggest that that character was ace than there is for Charlie, and yet canonically he was gay despite that. Sexuality is something very complex and personal and the discovery of it no less so, so yes, absolutely, I think it needs to be stated in some way to be canon. Things can’t just be implied to be considered canon. Your assumptions may very easily be wrong, or not what the author intended. And even things that the author intended can be considered non-canon. Death of the Author is a real thing, after all. If it’s not stated in the text, it’s not canonical

If Charlie had said “I’m not interested in romance and don’t know if I ever will be” or something similar, then yes I’d say they had a basis for their argument. But that’s not what he said. Charlie says… basically what I would have if someone had flirted with me in high school. My suspicion is that something in JC’s contract meant that they weren’t allowed to make Bill, Tonks, or Charlie romance options, so they just reworded JK’s old interview when writing his dialogue to be more relevant to the quest material

And people using that interview as “proof” is especially funny to me since she only said that after denying the possibility that he could be gay because Dumbledore already was. You’re all really expecting this woman whose reaction to being asked if a character being homosexual was a possible interpretation was “Uh, no, we already have one of those,” to go around and confirm him to belong to an even less represented group? And do it tastefully? And then have half of these people who take that as canon also state that they don’t generally consider things that JK reveals outside of the source to matter?

Christ, people, learn the difference between canon, fanon, and Word of God. And then stop ignoring or harassing people for rightly calling out that you’re misusing the terms

[essayofthoughts]

I've seen a lot a hate for the ship but not a thorough explanation of why. I wanted to see the pros and cons of them. The effect it has on Wanda in the comics and in MCU, same for Vision. In which scene in the movies made people dislike it and which part in the comics made people explicitly hate. . . I don't think I'm doing a good job explaining why I want a Meta on it. My reasoning looks all over the place to me.

Yeah, I’m not entirely sure what you mean with some of this but as for why people don’t like and why they do, I can do that. I haven’t read enough comics to have a firm idea of the impact in comics, or what scene in the films makes people hate it (though if I had to bet it would probably be Wanda putting Vision through the floor, or like. Generalised fan hate for Wanda due to goddamn fandom misogyny and fucking Tony stans) or what scene in comics made people hate. A lot of those things are seriously subjective and personal and the hate for WandaVision is not just limited to the personal. Anyway.

Main reasons I’ve seen people say they don’t like ScarletVision:

They feel Marvel is pushing it too hard with all their nods to the comics.

They didn’t like the relationship in the comics in the first place.

They think Wanda’s abusive because she shoved (the practically indestructible) Vision through the floor and…

They find it squicky because Vision is technically a year old in CACW.

Now, I don’t mind the nods to the comics too much [1], and sure you can dislike the relationship in the comics, but it was very significant, producing the first incarnations of Wiccan and Speed (before the death, time-jump rebirth and other shit) which drove the House of M plotline, which has had a huge impact on the Maximoffs in general [2], and so… I can see why they’d want to reference so enduring a relationship. You can dislike it if you want, but I don’t especially think there’s a need to hate on it. Find it personally obnoxious, sure. Want to desperately avoid it, sure. But honestly, fandom’s need to try to justify their hatred of something or to be incredibly judgy is something I find deeply grating these days (hence the vagueblog the other day) so I think people need to tone shit down some.

As to the “Wanda’s abusive thing”… Vision did literally lie by omission to her regarding keeping her under house arrest. Let’s look at two other cases where she was lied to.

Strucker and List! They recruited the twins in This Scepter’d Isle tie in prelude comic, and claimed to be SHIELD by speaking of “our Avengers, our Iron Man”. But they weren’t and, as you see, the twins readily abandon them when the fight comes to the castle.

Ultron! “You were supposed to make a better world!” “It will be better!” “When everyone is dead?” And what happened then? She set Helen free from the sceptre’s control, she and Pietro got the hell out… only to return to fight Ultron alongside the Avengers.

Wanda, simply, does not like being lied to. If she offers trust then to betray it is one of the worst crimes you can commit against her. The same holds true of Pietro in comics, it’s the reason for the end of his relationship with Crystal Amaquelin. To break their trust is a surefire way to earn their ire and Vision is clearly very close to Wanda by the time of CACW… and he lied to her. 

Besides which, he’s indestructible. From their conversation we see that they’re both very much regarded as Other by the other Avengers and by the public - the android and the witch - and they seem to understand one another’s capabilities. Vision begs Wanda to not leave not to refrain from putting him through the floor. Being put through the floor is easily survivable for him. He is literally made from Vibranium. He can phase through solid matter! He can alter his own density! He’s also an android who doesn’t think like we do, he’s genuinely surprised that he can be distracted because his way of thinking is very very alien to that of a human.

So if Wanda’s abusive, so is Vision. But given their conversation at Leipzig Airport when Wanda finally stops fighting, it seems like they’re generally quite open with their emotions and their thoughts. They each understand why they responded as they did and don’t seem to hold it too much against it each other. So, honestly, I’d say they have a healthier relationship than some (Pepper/Tony has a few problems, so I actually Do Not Judge Pepper taking a break from him in CACW) especially given that Wanda comes out of a codependent bond with her brother because her brother dies. The fact she’s not an emotional wreck and is capable of healthy relationships is amazing. Given a lot of factors… look the relationship - whatever it may be - between Wanda and Vision needs work, but all relationships do. And both of them clearly put a lot of thought into their discussions, with Vision’s awkward hamfisted attempts to make Wanda feel better, and Wanda’s willingness to talk openly to Vision in turn. It’s clearly a relationship based on communication and intellectual exercise, which I think is a decently solid basis? But then again, I’m ace, and of the few relationships I’ve had, one of them involved a hugely manipulative dickhead, so what do I know.

Honestly the squickiness is the one reason I can really see and get behind [3] even though it doesn’t squick me out personally. Vision is literally a year old by the time of CACW. That’s not hyperbole, you can check the MCU timelines on the wikia. He’s very young, he’s still very naive, he still lacks a solid understanding of human nature because he’s very logical and so emotion and ulterior motives sometimes - heck, often - pass him by. He’s seriously lacking in life experience and that makes forming relationships with him of any kind to be very weird.

The way that I find it easier to handle is… well, look at Ultron. Emotionally immature, yes, but intellectually he had a great understanding of things, even if he was an omnicidal maniac. Then, look at JARVIS. We don’t know when JARVIS was made, but he’s existed in MCU canon as a whole and intact thing for years, he’s had plenty of time to mature as a half AI half natural language UI, and then being merged with what there is of the part-sceptre brain of Ultron…. physically he’s a year old, but he’s got more going on in his skull than just that. He may lack a lot of experience and understanding - of course he does, part of him comes from an omnicidal maniac, the other part is a bodyless AI that acted as Tony Stark’s nanny, minder, adviser, best friend and general helping hand. His understanding of a lot of things is very off.

But he isn’t just a year old. He’s also got a lot of other stuff going on.

Honestly, if you don’t like ScarletVision, that’s fine. Its your business, it’s your preference. I don’t get ClintCoulson or Stony or… hell a lot of slash ships these days, if I’m honest, partially due to how they dismiss female characters even when written by female fans, but I’m not going to shit on them. If ScarletVision is your NOTP just block it. There’s no need to go shitting all over it, or trying to justify your hatred, distaste or squicked-out-ness by it. Just say “I don’t like this,” or “It makes me uncomfortable” and leave it at that. You don’t have to justify your personal feelings to other people. You’re allowed to dislike things just because you dislike things. You’re allowed to like things that are ProblematicTM [7] just because they scratch your id.

But yeah. People have their own reasons for not liking ScarletVision and that’s justified. Seeing it pushed in their faces, I can see why someone who doesn’t care for it would come to hate it - I didn’t care about Tony Stark but his stans have made me detest him on principle. But, you don’t need to spew hate everywhere about it, and that isn’t necessarily a personal issue.

That’s a fandom issue, largely due to the purity police, problematic TM thing, the callout brigade and people trying to prove that they are ideologically pure to try to prevent such callouts happening to them. The solution? For people to stop calling out other people or to stop giving a shit if they get called out. For people to stop overusing or misusing callouts to get back at people they don’t like. For people to stop lying with callouts. For people to stop uncritically reblogging callout posts without checking facts for themselves.

This probably isn’t going to happen, not for a while at least. Not before fandom has almost entirely burned itself out, burned itself to the ground and had to rebuild itself from the ground up.

But hey. I guess chewing up and spitting out your friends and companions only to team up again for the sequel is in right now - it’s what’s going in in the MCU.

[1] And hey, if it was nods for BuckyNat you know people would be practically cheering, so I find it kind of weird that this specifically is an issue while people are almost panting for a reference to BuckyNat, just as I find it annoying that people spent ages begging JKR for more information only to turn around and go “why won’t she stop!?” Answer: Because y’all spent years begging her for more. Don’t be bitter because your wish got answered.

[2] Yes there are issues with House of M, yes I know you may dislike it, no, I don’t care right now. Like what you like, dislike what you like, whether house of M was good is not the question, the question is if it was significant and it was. 

 [3] Being sick of Marvel pushing something via nods to the comics sure, that can be irritating, but there’s a bit of a double standard there because no one minds it for other characters and, indeed, they seem to be begging for it for BuckyNat. They ignore the nod to Ultimates that Clint’s family is [4] just to spit on it because it’s not Clintasha like they wanted or ClintCoulson (how did that ship start, honestly? IT MAKES ZERO SENSE), they hate on the nod to comics for WandaVision, but they seem to keep their eyes peeled for every other Easter egg opportunity, draw wildly out of proportion parallels between comics and MCU [5] and practically beg for BuckyNat [6].

[4] As is like… Clint’s character in this, he’s much more brutal than 616 Clint. MCU Clint is more disaster to humans than human disaster, and that is very Ultimates.

[5] People saying how much of a slap in the face the Raft is in MCU are WRONG because the Raft is new in MCU and has never been used to imprison anyone, let alone villains or heroes, so the slap to the face that it is in comics does not apply here.

[6] I get it, BuckyNat is really interesting and features two people dealing with their differing yet similar traumas from the same source. I’m a sucker for that kind of thing, I get it. But guys, it’s not what’s happening.

[7] Kylux feat. blood and force choking for example. Look I have issues with the shipping of Kylo and Hux but those fics are AMAZING and HORRIBLE and I LOVE THEM, for the simple reason that they are very id-scratchy. Sometimes I like to read about deeply unhealthy bloody relationships or just like. Straight up healthy BDSM. We all have likes and dislikes, but those don’t have to be due to an ideological basis. All things are flawed, some things more than others, but just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean that everyone should dislike the thing [8].

[8] There are, of course, exceptions to this. Nazis and Neo-Nazis, for example, should be universally hated and vilified because they wish to commit fucking genocide. White nationalists should be universally hated and vilified because they want to destroy anyone they don’t see as white, when race is a completely arbitrary construct entirely designed to create social divisions in the first place.  But, some things can be problematic without being The Worst And Most Awful Thing Ever and that’s what this post is about.

[mrm64]

hello! i know it's a bad idea to engage in any shipping discourse but for the sake of constructive criticism, i asked an sns shipper if she thinks there's atleast potential in ss if ever sakura had that capacity to stand up to sasuke and if she wasn't as much fixated on him during shipuuden and the war arc. i even brought up the wasted opportunity of sasuke vs sakura that was shown in the game. the sns shipper gave a very structured and well-versed answer and i do agree with some of her points. i'm not even anti-sns and i understand the support this ship gets. but this person really hates sakura. so her answer to my question if ss has potential is straight up NO. hate is an understatement. she explicitly said she DETESTS sakura and ss xD. granted, her hatred is valid since sakura's writing is very flawed and inconsistent. what i didn't like was when she said why am i trying to change sakura's personality (her standing up to sasuke whether physically or verbally) when "she's constantly on heat when he's around". gosh, i really wanted to retaliate here and say it's called freakin character development. i mean, that's what she's mainly hated for right? the fact that she's obsessed and a pushover when it comes to sasuke. having that change especially during the war arc doesn't mean she's out of character, it means development. but gah, sakura haters are really hard to argue with so i just stayed silent.

to briefly summarize, her main point of argumentation is that sakura was toxic to both naruto and sasuke. sasuke's relationship with naruto is more defined than whatever he had with sakura. she brought up ss's pt.1 moments and said that sasuke would do the same to naruto, if not even better. as for naruto's case, sakura was a mean bitch and was so unfair to him throughout the series. simply put, even if sns has questionable elements, they are more organic and healthy than sasusaku.

this got me thinking. between sasunarusasu and sasusaku, despite both having toxic elements, i think the reason why there are relatively more sns shippers is because there's balance. compared to sakura, sasuke has shown more consideration towards naruto and we all know naruto cares for sasuke just as much and he isn't afraid to stand up to this guy.

idk what i'm even trying to ask here. i guess i'm just ranting lol. i've always seen your comments in youtube vids defending sakura and ss and i know you have an extensive knowledge of the naruto manga in general. you could only imagine how shocked i am when i found out you're a male. it's really rare to find someone like you. :)

anyways, i just feel so disappointed and pressed lmao. ss shippers couldn't catch a break from haters. like yea, some of us know it has shit writing in the canon and explanations regarding their relationship in the series is very limited. i already accepted the fact that they are underdeveloped and was borderline toxic. but then, between kishimoto's pitiful inability to write female characters properly and SP's biased treatment towards sasusaku plus the manga's main narrative focusing on naruto and sasuke, i just feel like it's kinda unfair for antis to shit on ss shippers when in reality, most of us just hold onto it because of nostalgia. most sasusaku shippers came to be when they were very young. i even found comments saying they started shipping them when they were 6 or 7. in my case, i was 12 lol.

it's kinda unfair since sns has the upperhand bcoz the series is mainly about them. naruhina has retcons and SP and what does ss have? small pt.1 moments, headcanons, fanons and to top it off SP's biased ass shitting on it. the ss fandom isn't perfect and has its fair share of immature stans as well, but i'm still glad that didn't stop authors and artists from making content. ss has got some of the best fanfictions, fanarts and doujinshis. i just wished antis won't attack them as much.

anyways, i'm not even asking a specific question. i just ranted. i just needed to get this out of my system. sorry for that 😅

Hey! It's been a long while since I got asks like this lol! Once tumblr went all anti-nsfw a few years ago, we all kinda migrated to Twitter for our SS/Anime cravings tbh but I'm glad and flattered you decided to ask me on my thoughts! :)

I won't write long as again, tbh, I'm kinda retired from debating/arguing with antis on things of SS/Naruto/Etc (unless I'm simply too triggered to let it go lol. You've already probably seen my long Sakura video so I won't go too much into details of what I already covered with Sakura's character. But to answer you, I'll keep it to the point.

It's ok of course to say Kishi's writing is flawed, I mean he is human and we know Naruto has holes. Every manga/story does of course. When it comes to SS, I personally bring it to this: Sasuke and Naruto's relationship is NOT Sasuke and Sakura's relationship. And that's (imo) ok. Sasuke and Naruto obviously have a bond only they have. Both lonely and orphaned, rivals with each other, haters to brother, you know it all. But Sakura is different. She's simply a normal, head-strong and caring girl. Kishi wanted to write a normal girl, and he did a darn well good job, because just like normal girls (or people in general), they're imperfect. That's why she first appealed to me.

Anyway, to the point, SS is pretty easy to follow. Sakura likes Sasuke....what's the problem? Where's the toxicity, lol. Sure she fangirls over him as a 12 year old girl, but again, Sakura is normal. Most girls I knew that age did the same thing. Most BOYS I knew were super...*cough* ready to be with girls (*cough cough*, puberty, everyone, *cough*). Sasuke is cool and confident. Sakura lacked confidence, so naturally she was drawn to Sasuke. Sasuke at first found her annoying (as he did with Naruto too) but as the became a team, she bonded. SS' bond is NOT NSN's bond. SS's bond is built upon a simply caring basis. Sakura always cared for Sasuke, and Sasuke always was protective of Sakura. Forest of Death, Sand Invasion, etc...add in the angst of Shippuden (nobody can tell me one was better than the other during Shippuden, Sasuke was 'bout to axe everyone while in darkness lol), blank period bonding, and then Boruto. There it is in SIMPLE terms.

As far as "standing up" to Sasuke...not sure where this person is coming from....again, NSN is NOT SS....Sakura has stood up to Sasuke at times. In the FOD where she indirectly called him a coward, when she pleaded with him to not fight in the Prelims and threatened to tell the proctors of the curse mark, trying to stop him from leaving Konoha., etc. If she was a "doormat", she would have said "Ok Sauske, you do whatever you want, it's all ok my love!" That was chapter 3 Sakura. A LOT of haters can't move beyond that chapter tbh...moving on. The main thing is, she wasn't STRONG enough to stop him by FORCE. She wasn't written to. Sure I woulda liked some angsty moments of them fighting, TRUST ME, you already know. But Kishi wanted the fighting to mostly be between Naruto and Sasuke, as most battle Shonen go. It's Goku and Vegeta, Deku and Bakugou, you name it. She was written to LOVE him unconditionally. And despite Kishi's misses here and here, it's clear as day to many people that they do indeed, love each other. Sarada is a product of years of redemption, forgiveness, and understanding between SS (which is....literally some of the themes of Naruto....Zabuza...Haku...Gaara...Pein...Obito....list goes on...).

And of course Naruto and Sasuke's relationship got more spotlight. They're essentially the Shonen "duo" like I explained before with Goku and Vegeta. It's a common tope which can be a bit annoying imo since other characters get shafted, but they're gonna be seen more by the public. At the end of the day, Kishi modeled NSN after his relationship with his BROTHER....that was one of Naruto's main story plots. AGAIN, OF COURSE it's gonna be pushed and seem like it's more "balanced"...it's a battle Shonen, not a love story lol. The love stuff is sprinkled in. This isn't a Shojo. If it was, SS would be the main focus (or...I guess NSN if Kishi WANTED to go that route).

So to finish off, you're right with the SP thing. But it can't be helped. If people wanna say NSN has more "development", let them. At the end of the day, they're shown more to the viewers because they're the Goku and Vegeta of Naruto. They push the narrative, not a romance. They're Kishi's go-to boys. They're the essential main character and rival. It's nothing new. But you know what else? They're. NOT. A. COUPLE. SasuSaku is, and again, romance is SPRINKLED in. It's N O T a Shojo and not the main focus. Honestly...the arguments that NSN shipper used are a bit weak knowing full well that SNS represent Kishi's brother and himself.

I mean...tldr, I could just say "Kishi and his bro are Naruto and Sasuke. SO nah bro, NSN has no romantic development. I wasn't meant to lol."

Typed longer than I thought, but I hope this helped! At the end of the day, ship SS in peace. We have an amazing fandom for the most part with wonderful content and we ain't stopping anytime soon :)