#sw andor critical

[antianakin]

So I don't actually hate the trope of the tragic baby reveal in general, and you know how I know that? Because I didn't hate it when it happened to Hera Syndulla. But here's the difference between Hera and Bix. It never felt like Hera's entire narrative arc in that last season was built explicitly to try to lead to that reveal of the baby. Hera's narrative isn't reliant on telling us that the destinies of the men around her were more important than she was, and she never has to leave the fight in order to have the baby. It never felt like Hera's character got completely undone in order to write her out of the story just so they could have a shot of her looking idyllically beautiful in a field while holding a baby.

Cliches aren't inherently negative and they CAN work because they're usually popular for a reason, but it's also so so easy to do them in a way that just feels lazy instead of meaningful.

[velvet4510]

Friendly reminder that the Rogue One writers easily could’ve actually killed Cassian with that fall in the data tower and ended the film with Jyn defeating Krennic and transmitting the plans alone just as the Death Star obliterates her. Instead they wrote it so that Cassian climbs up 10+ stories with a broken back to save Jyn from her mother’s murderer and they have a whole moment in the elevator as the last survivors of the Rogue One team (probably the last two people alive in the facility) and then die together in each other’s arms on the beach; in other words, they wrote the most romantic possible ending for them. Absolutely nothing Mr. Gilroy says post-Andor will ever change or undo any of this.

[chissjedi]

I was raised being told that the most important thing a woman can do is have a child, so, yeah, I do take it personally when a character's entire story is scrapped for her to give birth to the protagonist's child.

[lehdenlaulu]

You know what I also hate?

That people are now being gaslit into a "What if the best thing Star Wars could be is... not Star Wars?" mindset.

[flythesail]

I'm just saying if I was the one making andor, I would have gone through rogue one scene by scene with a fine tooth comb

[notasapleasure]

don't you fucking DARE tony

[aggressively-polite]

Finally had time to watch Andor season 2, and it's such a shame because while it's still a great show, I felt it fails as a prequel to Rogue One.

Cassian just felt off. Too conflicted and eager to leave the rebellion for someone who was completely bought in at the end of season 1. His relationship with Bix and the conflict that caused in him really reversed the forward momentum he had at the end of season 1.

We also don't get to see him become a leader. With the time skips, we get a mention of how he's "about to be promoted", but never get to see why. In season 1, we get to see him working with others (both in Aldhani and the prison break) and those gave us more of an indication of why he'd rise the ranks than anything in season 2.

We do get a sense that he's become more competent as a rebel spy - how he's able to lie easily on Ghorman, how he kills Mon Mothma's driver without hesitation - but we don't get to see those put to use for the Rebellion. It feels like we never got anything to back up his characterisation we got in Rogue One of an unflinchingly loyal spy who's done a bunch of morally dubious kills. We never got to see why he's so valuable to the Rebellion, we only get told he is.

Overall, I still loved the show - Dedra, Mon Mothma, Kleya, Luthen, Wil - I loved all their storylines. It's just a shame that the titular character didn't feel like himself to me.

[raindropsandseahorses]

I’ve been thinking about Andor season 2 and how it’s so clear that the original plan for the show was 5 seasons. Each 3 episode arc was clearly the Greatest Hits of the writers’ original outline for the season. There’s so many little threads, minor characters, intriguing asides that could have been expanded upon. There were so many questions I had.

How did Perrin and Mon handle Tay’s death? How did Bix get sober? How did the ISB approach Syril about infiltrating Ghorman? When did Wilmon meet Luthen? Did Syril’s death contribute to Dedra’s downward spiral?

What’s great about Andor is that we don’t NEED to see any of that. The writers are good enough and the characters are well-developed enough that we can imagine it. We can imagine Tay’s death and Cinta injured and alone in a dark safe house missing Vel, and Melshi’s reunion with Cassian. We don’t need to see any of it to know it happened, but I wish we could have.

[anthony-crowleys]

POV: you're thinking about all the lost potential that The Acolyte had

[antianakin]

I'm a little annoyed that we never got any answer as to WHY the Ghorman Massacre was Mon Mothma's last straw, honestly. Like, yeah, it's very tragic and horrible, but it is also SO SO FAR from the Empire's first genocide. It literally STARTED with a genocide of the Jedi, and then the Kaminoans not long after, then a slow creeping genocide of the clones, then the Geonosians at some point, then the Lasat. And that's just counting what I can remember from high canon sources and doesn't count the oppression and enslavement of places like Ryloth and Kashyyyk and Lothal.

So why is Ghorman somehow SO MUCH WORSE than all of those other atrocities that it pushes Mon Mothma to not just entirely give up on politics as a way to fix things, but also to abandon her family and potentially put their lives at risk? If she makes herself public enemy #1, there's NO WAY the Empire doesn't immediately go after Perrin and Leida to interrogate them about her and what they did or didn't know about her loyalties and activities. Mon's already framed Perrin's gambling as a reason for the missing funds and now that she's an open rebel, this could easily implicate Perrin as a rebel, too. Leida's marriage to Davo is also involved in that whole affair, which could implicate her, as well, depending on how the Empire wanted to spin it. We get no indication that Mon Mothma is worried at all about what this choice will do to her family or that she has any kind of protections in place for them for the inevitable fallout of all of this.

I wanted to know why she decided it was worth it. Why now? Is it really the Ghorman Massacre or was it something ELSE and the Ghorman Massacre was just a good excuse to leave?

And instead we just get... nothing. Mon doesn't seem to consider her family at all when making this choice, and all she says about why she wants to leave is that she "can't take it anymore" and Bail decides the rebellion could use her leadership. This explains nothing about why this was a turning point for her and why she chooses to leave the way she does despite the consequences it will inevitably have for the people she ostensibly cares about still.

This is obviously a result of the compressed timeline and the time skips, and they're having to just hit the necessary story beats and mostly ignore the rest, and I get that, but it doesn't make it less frustrating for this immensely pivotal moment in Mothma's story to not get the exploration and attention it deserved.

[ryuunosora]

Tony Gilroy sure has a condescending attitude...

[chissjedi]

The re-canonization of the Dark Disciple and the Andor finale only ten days apart has given me whiplash.

[generalpierrotdameron]

[kaxtwenty]

I don’t wanna be too negative about a show that just came out, but I do think it’s really funny how The Bad Batch—a show with barely ANY Jedi or significant uses of the Force—seems to have a better understanding of the Jedi and the Force than both Ahsoka and The Acolyte.

[bisexualmikisayaka]

average chandrilan man

[aggressively-polite]

You are so right about Cassian's transition from S1 Cassian to R1 Cassian not being there at all. Did the writers somehow forget the significance of Narkina 5? Maarva's Rebel funeral? Nemik's manifesto?

A HUGE part of 'kill me or take me in' was because of the PORD act and what Cassian and Melshi knew what was happening in at least the four or so prisons prisoners were sent from Niamos. There were probably so many more.

It was a significant turning point for Cassian. It was traumatic. Did he not truly learn teamwork, conspire with Kino to free thousands of men and overthrow their oppressors? Surely a turning point for a once lone wolf turned one time mercenary who was only really out for himself?

During the four years that followed Narkina 5, tens or even hundreds of thousands of innocent people, enemies of the Empire, and criminals who are meant to do their time and get their freedom eventually are living that dystopian hell that Cassian was and it began long before the day Cassian was arrested. With every day the Empire ruled the galaxy, those people would never see freedom.

CASSIAN KNEW THIS, yet they largely chose to regress and not progress his character and focus on a romantic relationship that should have been cut after the show went from 5 to 2 seasons, and use that as a reason to not to commit. That's what they did with the limited screen time they had?

People needed to know about Narkina 5 and the other prisons. Cassian and Melshi agreed on this. Cassian didn't get to say goodbye to Maarva because he was in prison, and then what did his last remaining parent do with her death?

Incited a riot and resistance against the Empire. Cassian heard her entire speech and it was clear that the wheels were turning for Luthen as he watched her speech and what she accomplished with it, as though he was putting together that aside from his interactions with Cassian, the reluctant but immensely capable man raised by that woman could really be the guy.

Taking Cassian off the board because he knows too much could be the biggest mistake Luthen might make in his life. And then lo and behold, Cassian is waiting for him on his ship, ready to die if Luthen won't bring him in. He was ready to go ALL the way.

WHAT HAPPENED TO ANY OF THAT?

You could have left his story off there and continued to Rogue One and it would have worked as a prequel, which is such a shame when other characters had such compelling stories.

Yes!!!!!!! You've articulated what I feel perfectly!

Andor season 1 works as a great prequel to Rogue One because it gets Cassian to where he needs to be emotionally (fully ready to dedicate himself to fighting the empire), and then leaves enough of a gap for us to fill in his development to captain.

When I finished season 1, I was so happy that it felt like a complete arc for the character and I could leave it there and let imagination/fanfic fill in the rest.

Even though I did like a lot of season 2 (the whole build up of Ghorman I really enjoyed), it felt like such a regression for Cassian, and makes it impossible to connect his character back to Rogue One.

I really think the Ferrix characters should have been left in season 1, or have a separate plot line that doesn't intersect (much or at all) with Cassian's.

Bix didn't get to feel like a character to me in season 2, just as a plot device to make Cassian feel conflicted. She was given no agency or drive of her own - she leaves the rebellion (something she says she believes in) just so that Cassian will be fully in the rebellion (even though he should've been from episode 1). Why couldn't she just break up with him to go on her own missions? Why did they make her talk about how strongly she believes in the fight, just to make her a widowed mother on a farm?

Actually now that I think about it - I think Wil and Cassian's relationship works much better in comparison - they care about each other but it doesn't come before the cause (at least not for Wil).

I think the writers should've just picked one Ferrix character to live (either Bix or Wil) and give them Wil's plotline. Cassian's plot could then focus a lot more on actual missions for the Rebellion, how Yavin builds as a base (hated that we saw none of this in the timeskip), and setting him up for Rogue One.