#testblog-54

[fincalinde]

random question friday: what sport do you think lxc would play?

Random question Friday I answer several Tuesdays later! This fox cannot be tamed.

So lucky for you this happens to be a subject near to my heart and those closest to me are at dire risk of having it outlined to them at any given moment that LXC is without a doubt a tennis player. Here are my reasons three:

Tennis is a sport associated with wealth and social status. It has traditionally been a sport of the middle classes and above, which I have been informed is also true in China and is one of the reasons for the tennis boom there in recent years. As the leader of a prestigious clan, LXC is at the pinnacle of his society and in a modern AU would therefore participate in such sports.

Tennis requires extraordinary mental discipline. When you're on the singles court you have to solve your own problems and your own mental strength is vital because there's no team playing around you and every single point counts. That mental discipline is not a million miles from the kind of discipline required to become a truly powerful cultivator making maximum use of their talent.

Sexy Wimbledon whites.

I happen to love tennis so I'm aware I have a shocking bias, but I think it's just two keen interests I have happening to fit together surprisingly well.

As a bonus, this is my opinion on professional playing styles for the tennis AU I will never write but have bored on about privately for the past three years:

LXC - your classic elegant all court player, the most powerful one-handed backhand on the tour, as much as he enjoys singles in his heart of hearts he never has more fun than when he's playing doubles with a good partner

JGY - counterpuncher, scrambles like you would not believe, literally never knows when he is beaten and has pulled out more wins from match point down than any other player, has a completely undeserved reputation for gamesmanship via taking bathroom breaks and medical timeouts as a strategy (EVERYONE DOES IT)

LWJ - technically an all court player but drifts into pusher territory a little too often because he likes to hit perfect shots until his opponent makes a mistake - however when he does step up to play offensively, beware

WWX - loses points he should win because he's hitting tweeners for the lolz, gets seriously injured playing doubles with JC and changes his playing style drastically to shorten points, becomes serve and volley king and still hits tweeners and underarm serves whenever he wants, literally the worst doubles player known to man

JC - offensive baseliner constantly being berated by his mother (coach) to COME TO THE NET and can never volley as well as WWX does, hugely outstrips WWX in ranking after the Incident and is constantly paranoid that without said injury WWX would always have beaten/outranked him

NMJ - servebot, breaks rackets on court, has been defaulted from matches for rage hitting balls, is the toughest prospect out there on grass and hugely respected for it, retires early due to health and becomes his brother's very ineffective coach

NHS - defensive baseliner bc that's the farthest position from the balls shooting at him at 200kmph, hasn't even cracked the top 200 and all his tour-related costs are covered by NMJ, has won a couple of doubles titles where NMJ did all the work, still somehow makes more in endorsement deals than most of the rest of the cast put together

[fincalinde]

omg tennis is perfect and i love how this extends to the rest of the cast so thanks for the detailed response! if you don't mind making it longer... what's the deal with jgy's one (1) slam? and how does he feel about doubles?

No problem, thanks for the ask since it gave me the opportunity to ramble about tennis and Xiyao.

The way I have this outlined, the entire AU is larger than just their tennis careers, which means their careers are analogous to their Sunshot experiences rather than the entire novel. I'll talk about JGY's one slam and touch on his doubles career too.

JGY's slam is obviously a stand in for the climax of the Sunshot campaign. However, at the start of his career he's coming from nowhere, having taught himself mostly by watching others and training with ridiculous if not always effective dedication. His mother used all the money she had to try to get him a good tennis education, but that really just extended to buying equipment and the occasional lesson. As in canon, he's a prodigy whose development is held back by a lack of resources but who develops his own style by synthesising various different techniques.

He's too short to have a formidable serve, so his playing style is a bit like Diego Schwartzman at his peak i.e. clay his best surface, stellar return game, hits winners from defensive positions. But he also has amazing hands and good touch at the net. Just fantastic at disguised drop shots and disguised shots in general. He reaches a number of finals but not a slam final, and hasn't won any singles tournaments. Wins some minor doubles tournaments with NMJ, like 250 level and maybe also a 500, and then NMJ catches him colluding with the Wens to rig games for money at the Challenger level.

NMJ considers JGY dead to him after this and JGY ends up playing doubles mostly with other players who went to the Wen training academy and are still part of that circle. His ranking is as high as it's ever been, but still no slam and no reasonable expectation of one. Anyway, I won't go into more detail, but suffice to say that by the time we get to the equivalent of the endpoint of the Sunshot Campaign, NMJ is as close as he's ever been to finally beating WRH in a slam final because only JGY stands in his way at the semifinal.

Except NMJ is carrying an injury and this is his worst surface and JGY's best, so JGY exploits said injury and wins the match. Obviously everyone expects JGY to have expended all his energy taking down NMJ and thinks he'll get flattened in the final, but instead JGY comes out fresh as a daisy and beats WRH in straight sets, taking match point with a lob worthy of 2015 Davis Cup final Andy Murray. Right after this match is when WRH finds out that Someone Anonymous has whistleblown the entire illicit Wen betting operation and there's a huge scandal in which JGY comes out smelling like roses.

After this, JGY steps back from singles and has much more success in doubles with LXC, mostly because it's a conscious and deliberate move to keep that FO win shining bright in people's minds rather than let them see him not replicate that success. Doubles with LXC is both a move to build a popular brand and also just a thing they really enjoy doing together. At this point LXC is probably the only male top tenner who regularly plays doubles. LXC is also the first doubles partner JGY has who actually respects his abilities as a player and doesn't make snide comments about carrying JGY with his serve. Instead LXC waxes lyrical about JGY on the return and they win, like, everything together.

JGY retires from playing relatively young and ends up director of the FO because I refuse to let realism interfere with my fantasy. He is so good at his job that the FO becomes the most diplomatic and gracious and progressive of all four slams RIP to Mauresmo but he's different. He basically becomes a leading light in tennis despite the haters, and is instrumental in providing greater financial support and resources for lower ranked players plus ploughing funding into grassroots tennis.

[fincalinde]

tennis AU fiend back again - i was wondering whether you had any thoughts about what the scores are for the matches jgy has against nmj and wrh when he wins the FO

That's it, I've officially made a tag for this AU.

I do indeed have thoughts on the scoreline! Make way, make way for more tennis rambles. This is how JGY lifts the Coupe des Mousquetaires.

Jin Guangyao d. Nie Mingjue - semifinal

No one can deny that Nie Mingjue comes into this match in bad shape. He's carrying a couple of injuries and dropped sets to players he'd usually beat in straights. But this is a grudge match for him—the tournament where his father's career ended with a humiliating defeat to WRH. NMJ's father never won RG. NMJ has also never won RG—yet.

JGY, meanwhile, is in the form of his life thanks to his affiliation with the Wen agency juggernaut. It doesn't matter. No one thinks he has a chance even against a NMJ who's below his best, and at first it looks like they're right.

Set 1 - 7-6 (7-5)

JGY manages to hang onto his serve by the narrowest of margins. He doesn't get a single break point on NMJ's serve until the tiebreak when he snaffles the crucial mini-break by forcing an error off NMJ's backhand. He takes his first set point with an absolute classic of a disguised dropshot that NMJ can't get to in time. The crowd are excited mostly because they're surprised this match might be remotely competitive.

NMJ smashes his racket. He doesn't get a warning for racket abuse.

Analogous to NMJ's assault on the Wen in the latter stages of the war culminating in the moment when JGY reveals himself as being in WRH's employ.

Set 2 - 7-6 (7-5) 6-2

JGY sends NMJ running back and forth, using his insider knowledge of NMJ's chronic injuries to his advantage and giving NMJ very little opportunity to unleash his forehand. NMJ just can't slide well on the clay—that level of flexibility has never been his strong point, and all the quick turns and being dragged crosscourt are taking a toll. The crowd are confused but there's not really a sense of doubt that NMJ will break back and take this set to restore order. Some people are starting to get behind JGY because regardless of MDZS canon it is a science fact that tennis fans enjoy a good upset and NMJ is more respected than beloved.

NMJ takes a medical time out during the change of ends at 2-5 just after being broken for the second time, and JGY serves out to love, taking his first set point with a rare ace.

Analogous to JGY's taunting of NMJ including handling Baxia and referring to his father's death.

Set 3 - 7-6 (7-5) 6-2 0-6

Normal service is resumed. NMJ is absolutely furious about being two sets to love down against Meng Yao of all people and he takes a bathroom break that's a couple of minutes over the maximum time allowed. The umpire doesn't penalise this and the crowd don't express disapproval either.

NMJ finds his forehand and blows JGY off the court as one would expect. The third set is over in twenty-six minutes. A lot of NMJ's shots are body shots, intentionally hit directly at JGY so he has to dodge at the same time as attempting to return. Several make contact. Set point is a forehand down the line JGY has no hope of getting near.

Analogous to NMJ attacking JGY and striking him.

Set 4 - 7-6 (7-5) 6-4 0-6 6-0

JGY has remained composed and smiling throughout the match, even applauding NMJ's good play at times. Now he's dropped the smile that disguises the intensity of his focus and after an epic battle with multiple deuces he breaks NMJ's serve.

Then he does it again. The crowd cannot believe this is happening. In contrast to the lighting-fast bagel of the third, this is the longest and most precarious and difficult bagel in the history of the sport. It lasts longer than most sets that go to 7-5. Nevertheless, NMJ does not win a game, and when JGY takes his seventh match point with a favourable netcord he looks over to the debentures where WRH is watching and applauding.

Analogous to JGY kicking NMJ and continuing to assault and berate him until WRH takes over.

Jin Guangyao d. Wen Ruohan - final

This one doesn't need much of a set by set breakdown because it's in straights and it's over sooner than anyone can imagine, 6-4, 6-2, 6-1. JGY plays absolutely out of his skin and he's almost as surprised as everyone else not just that he wins but that he does it swiftly and in some style. We are talking 2019 Wimbledon final Halep level of play here. Absolutely eviscerating a legend of the sport.

First set - JGY breaks WRH at 4-4 then serves out. Second set - at 2-2, JGY wins the next four games. Third set - JGY wins four games on the trot to make it eight games in a row, drops one game on WRH's serve then closes out by holding and breaking WRH again. Championship point is the Murray-worthy lob that leaves WRH totally wrong-footed.

The crowd are shell-shocked but also going absolutely wild. JGY has gone from being that upstart who ruined the NMJ-WRH showdown everyone wanted, the one whose presence in the final has turned it into a procession for WRH, to immediate superstar.

Analogous to the suddenness of JGY killing WRH who is most definitely not expecting it, then revealing he's a spy and a war hero.

Bonus LXC

Naturally LXC attends both matches, the former ostensibly to support NMJ, though when JGY wins he goes to find him after the on court interview so he can congratulate him. After congratulating JGY and showing his support, he goes to commiserate with NMJ and spends an inordinate amount of time patiently rebutting NMJ's accusations of poor sportsmanship and corruption etc.

During the final he's in JGY's box and seems to be the only person on the planet who isn't surprised when JGY wins. He and JGY are confirmed to be entering the doubles at Wimbledon.

[fincalinde]

qi rong! i kid, i kid. how about jc.

I will ignore your cruel taunting and focus on my viniferous darling.

a song that reminds me of them

I don't think I have a personal anthem for him, but En Fortapt Bror (A Prodigal Brother) by Rotvelt would probably go on the playlist if I made one, just for this bit alone:

Kan ikke ta det tilbake Kan ikke få du gjort Jeg vil ikke ha tilgivelse Det vil ikke vaske det bort

Can't take it back Can't get you done I don't want forgiveness It won't wash it away

what they smell like

If we're getting poetic, like lotus fragrance and ozone.

an otp

No one in the cast is right for JC but I do think he wants and deserves a suitable wife so I like the idea of reading something where he's in a relationship. His problem is that he needs just, so much therapy before he can make an effective life partner for anyone. He features in this postcanon AU I wrote and that's a reasonable depiction of how I think things could shake out for him after many years have passed if he's worked on himself. Basically, I know his extracanonical list of qualities he requires in a wife is meant to be humorous, but I tried to incorporate them into an OC while also making her a match for him.

I dabbled in reading Sangcheng because I am a slave to @starwife and like, in theory, many many many many many years postcanon who knows what might happen? And mightn't that be interesting? Sadly I have come to the conclusion that it's too much of a stretch and isn't my cup of tea. Pls forgive

a notp

I was racking my brain to think of a JC pairing I kneejerk hate beyond the general 'well, he isn't really compatible with any of the characters we meet' stance and then I realised I had forgotten Xicheng exists. Pause for audience laughter.

What can I even add here? It's based on nothing and it's not even like there's the intelligence of a thoughtful resistant read behind it. The laziest possible pair the spares approach taken by people whose reading comprehension is so poor they think JGY is an irredeemable cackling villain and WWX is a noble woobie. Thankfully it's easy for me to avoid and therefore ironically ends up irritating me less than bad Xiyao in practice.

favorite platonic/familial relationships

I love his relationship with his mother. She's just horrendous to him and I don't think he ever has any concrete evidence she loves him until their final moments together, but what I find most interesting and realistic is that he seems to understand her. He can see why she is who she is, which doesn't in any way mitigate the damage she does but is an important part of their dynamic because it's an element of why he defends her and it contributes to how he internalises her criticisms.

My favourite JC and YZY moment is this:

Jiang Cheng was stuck between his father and his mother. After a moment of hesitation, he moved to his mother’s side. Holding his shoulders, Madam Yu pushed him forward for Jiang FengMian to see, “Sect Leader Jiang, it seems that some things I have to say. Look carefully—this, is your own son, the future head of Lotus Pier. Even if you frown upon him just because I was the one who bore him, his surname is still Jiang! … I don’t believe for one second that you haven’t heard of how the outside people gossips, that Sect Leader Jiang has still not moved on from a certain Sanren though so many years have passed, regarding the son of his old friend as a son of his own; they’re speculating if Wei Ying is your…”

YZY emotionally, verbally and sometimes physically abuses her son. She is failing him as a mother and as a mentor. But she is not failing him as badly as JFM is failing him, and everything she says here is completely correct. And when JC and WWX talk about it afterwards, JC is also correct. WWX and LWJ kill the Xuanwu of Slaughter and no one cares or gives JC credit for his less glamorous contributions. His own father prefers WWX and doesn't even like him, and that is appalling.

WWX means well by trying to gloss over it, but it's an open secret and pretending it's not true is harmful. YZY is also going about it all wrong, but she's the only person who calls JFM out directly for failing his son. Pot, kettle, but there's a reason why when JC is stuck between his parents he ends up going over to his mother's side.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

I'm going to go radical here and say I don't personally enjoy or want to read any postcanon Twin Heroes reconciliation. The novel is pretty final about how things end up for them, and it's my belief that they are both far better off not being in each other's lives any more. It's sad because they were close as brothers and love each other so deeply, but ultimately it's for the best. They both appear to be in agreement about this.

the position they sleep in

Probably looks all super cool and handsome when he sleeps, but unfortunately not quite as super cool and handsome as WWX.

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

Puella Magi Madoka Magica. Can you imagine.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

We all know I'm MDZS first in almost everything, but I'm not a huge fan of JC's hair in the official art. Besides, it cracks me up that JC is far and away the most stylish member of the cast in CQL, and yet there's no indication that it's actually an interest of his. CQL NHS wearing his same basic bitch grey and white yet again while CQL JC swaggers past in his shoulder pads owning the entire world—amazing. How could I pick a favourite? I do like his official photo look though, because the gold looks great with the purple.

[fincalinde]

thank you so much for all your great jgy meta! i know you mostly post about xiyao, but i was wondering if you had any thoughts on su she?

I'm embarrassed! I'm blushing!

Seriously thanks though. I'd write just as much meta about LXC on his own if people asked me about it, since neither character is represented in particularly grounded ways by fandom. But JGY is the one who is the recipient of a baffling amount of hate, so I do tend to write about him on his own more.

But OK, it's Minshan's turn. I'm sure you'll be astonished that I don't think I've seen much if any textually-grounded portrayals of SMS. I'm not going to write an entire thesis on how to write him in a way that's consistent with what we see in canon, but I'll highlight a couple of points I think are notable and should be taken into account when writing him.

Gaslight

I like SMS and I think he's actually really interesting. I really try not to look over the parapet much in fandom, but obviously considering my interests I've been exposed to a lot more material on the subject of SMS and JGY than the subject of SMS and LWJ. I think SMS' weird hate-filled parasocial obsession with LWJ shouldn't be neglected when writing him. SMS wants to be LWJ but he hates the idea of anyone thinking he wants to be LWJ. SMS founded his own clan which means he must have a wife and children (and concubines too for all I know), but if he's feeling gay feelings for anyone it's probably LWJ.

LWJ represents SMS' fragile sense of self; SMS doesn't simply want to succeed outside the Lan, he wants to be a better Lan than the Lan. But he can't admit that to himself, so he reacts with fury whenever the comparison is made. My personal read on SMS is that his LWJ obsession doesn't have a sexual element, but it wouldn't necessarily be inconsistent with what we do see of him. Still, I think the more grounded read is that his LWJ obsession is the mirror of his relationship with JGY. Don't forget, the Moling Su would have crashed and burned not long after being founded if JGY hadn't intervened and supported them. He is very happy to be JGY's subordinate because JGY treats him with respect (which I speculate also means politely never drawing attention to the fact that SMS is baring his neuroses to the entire world by cosplaying as LWJ). Meanwhile LWJ, who has never respected SMS and will never respect him, inspires the opposite: SMS is desperate to best LWJ despite knowing deep down it's never going to happen.

Gatekeep

Let's get this out of the way: the relationship between JGY and SMS is firmly situated in the master-servant dynamic. Suffice to say that SMS is doggedly loyal to JGY in a supportive capacity, and the core of their relationship is reflected in its origins: JGY as a benevolent master and SMS as a devoted lackey. SMS is loyal to JGY because JGY treated him with kindness and support at a time when he was extremely politically vulnerable. JGY's kindness towards SMS is a combination of his usual politeness, hospitality and excellent memory, and his political support of SMS is a savvy move of its own as it nets him an ally who is loyal to him as a person rather than to the Jin as a whole.

My read on JGY's tears when SMS dies is that they're sincere both in the sense that he'll grieve SMS and also that he's just lost his best and most loyal servant. There's no indication he's lost a dear friend, and it's important to also remember his casual 'thanks' when SMS offers to sacrifice himself. SMS is, again, making this sacrifice as a lackey not as a friend of equal standing or a potential lover.

I like SMS fine and I really like his relationship with JGY. JGY obviously trusts him deeply but they both appear happy with the master-servant dynamic and haven't in all their years of collaboration moved towards the kind of warm and intimate friendship JGY has with LXC. Knowing JGY's secrets does not necessarily mean being closest to JGY emotionally.

Girlboss

We get a lot of conflicting information in canon about SMS' power level and talents, so it's not surprising that portrayals of him in fandom vary from incompetent to underestimated genius. I think what can sometimes be missing from these reads is an awareness of context.

One of the main things I've seen raised as evidence that SMS is actually a gifted cultivator is his utilisation of the transportation talisman. Being able to teleport in this manner is very difficult because of the large amount of power it requires. So, fair enough, there's no doubt that SMS has access to a decent amount of raw power. He's prospered alongside JGY so it's not surprising he's been able to develop his cultivational reserves and/or strengthen his core.

This doesn't really indicate that his strength is exceptional, though. The way these moments play out, it seems that cultivators at or above that power level are around. This is an impressive feat but it's not an astonishing one. Portraying SMS as weak contradicts canon, but I can't see any evidence that he's exceptionally strong in the context not just of the jianghu but of the (for the most part) exceptionally powerful cultivators who comprise much of the main cast.

So SMS is definitely a reasonably powerful cultivator, which again is to be expected considering the resources available to him (education amongst the Lan, the patronage of JGY). But it doesn't necessarily follow that SMS himself is exceptional.

SMS and the Moling Su practise similar and/or identical techniques to the Lan and canonically are inferior musicians. There's room for some subjectivity here insofar as we know that at the Burial Mounds the variations in their playing are dismissed by the Lan as standard incompetence when what is actually happening is that the blended melody technique is being used to drain their spiritual power. I think this kind of thing is why SMS is read by some as being more gifted than the text initially indicates.

However. The disguised melody technique is a technique invented by JGY. JGY specifically develops this technique in order to blend Turmoil and Cleansing when playing for NMJ. I sincerely doubt that conveniently SMS came up with the same idea independently. It seems obvious to me that JGY is the one if not developing these specific variations and sharing them with the Su, then at least he has introduced SMS to the concept so that SMS can develop his own disguised melodies. The genius at work here is that of JGY.

[fincalinde]

For divergences, I'd love to hear your thoughts on scenarios where JGY gets away (and maybe comes back?)

Oh sure! This is something I've thought about a lot actually.

Part I: Run, Baby, Run

By all appearances JGY was intending to flee with SMS, a good chunk of his own loyal disciples, and the body of his mother. He was not planning to escape with his little bindle on a little rowboat and go solo. So we do need to consider two basic scenarios: a JGY who escapes with all the trappings (less MS), and a JGY who has to flee alone because his escape plan has gone that badly.

Let's say JGY's escape plan goes off more or less without a hitch in that he has a good cohort of disciples and some material means at his disposal. In theory it would not be particularly difficult for him to establish himself in Dongying even if he would have to be very careful in terms of what rumours might cross the sea about him and how he can play that. It's possible he'd use an alias, but he's got quite a lot of distinguishing characteristics (nationality, physical appearance) so I think it would be easier for him to sell a story of persecution.

His problem is that whatever the plan (and remember he's had to put this together within the space of a few days, though he has probably always had an escape hatch in mind), his last minute Burial Mounds scheme failed and the other clans are not decimated and too busy with their own problems to pursue him. They are intact and they are righteously outraged. Whether JGY has his disciples and his resources as planned, or whether he only has Hensheng and the clothes on his back, he has to keep running because the other clans are going to hunt him to the ends of the earth.

And yes, I do think LXC is going to be leading that hunt. He wants the full story and he wants to make sure justice is done if he was indeed wrong about JGY's character. Plus, of course, his very personal stakes in wanting to see JGY again. So I see this as a sort of race to catch JGY, with one of two outcomes: LXC gets there first, or JGY realises LXC is not going to get there first so he throws himself on LXC's mercy as a gambit.

Either way, Xiyao get their chance to really hash it out and LXC will get all of his answers and if not infinite time then more time to consider the full story (which, given the amount of information he has likely received at the temple, he has also had time to think about while on the hunt). LXC ends up in an impossible position but I don't see him turning JGY in. I can see LXC doing that and following through with the consequences (i.e. execution) immediately post-temple when he's still shell-shocked and there are others around to take over and limit his power to influence the outcome, but when the decision truly rests in his hands I do not believe he would kill JGY. Remember it took a lie from NHS in the immediate aftermath of the revelations to get him to do it in canon.

I think Xiyao would fake LXC killing JGY and part ways—LXC to go home and JGY to parts unknown. And I think they would both say all the right things about this being their final meeting. But I don't think either of them would believe that, and neither do I.

Part II: I'm Back, Baby

Of course JGY will come back. He wants to live so he had to run away, just as at other times he's had to flee or submit in order to survive, but it's always in the moment and he always keeps his eyes on the prize. So his comeback, to me, depends strongly on the state of the jianghu, which he absolutely will be monitoring from afar. And I'm sure he will also be planning various ways he can discredit the revelations about him and find another target. Like, oh, say, NHS?

It might take a long time, but in canon we get a good look at the state of affairs after JGY's death, and with JGY living in exile there wouldn't be a huge difference. The Nie are on the rise, the Jiang are trying to hold the Jin together, and the Lan are destabilised. Once the big hunt for JGY is over things will certainly settle down into the new, worse status quo under the auspices of NHS.

If JGY is out there alive somewhere, NHS has a very big problem. If JGY is alive out there and NHS thinks he is dead, NHS has an even bigger problem in that NHS himself is going to be dead within the near future at the hand of the assassins JGY sends after him. While I'm sure JGY would in theory enjoy taking NHS out personally, his pattern generally is to use third parties when it is safer and more effective. Maybe NHS suspects or believes JGY is still out there, but the only reason he was able to outplay JGY in canon is because JGY didn't even know there was a game going on. A JGY alert to NHS' true nature and intentions is a JGY who is going to outclass him.

So the way I see it, sooner or later NHS is gone and sooner or later the jianghu is in some kind of crisis that the mostly-weakened great clans cannot overcome and/or stabilise off their own backs. JGY's peaceful and prosperous reign is going to start looking better in hindsight. Maybe all that stuff they heard about him wasn't true? Yeah he married his sister but it sounds like it was an accident, and there were certainly fewer monsters and corpses wandering the countryside. Over time it is absolutely possible to shift the narrative—look what happens to WWX! He is still widely feared but he no longer has the entire population out for his blood. JGY is far more adept at playing the game than WWX and is more than capable of engineering a comeback once the stars align.

I like to imagine JGY showing up to rescue a jianghu in crisis, perhaps with cultivators at his back to win some crucial battle or take out some existential threat. He has his foot in the door and he can go from there. The SLYs of the world have no shame about retconning their own opinions, so he'll be fine there. I just like thinking about the moment when he and LXC lay eyes on each other again.

[fincalinde]

how do you feel about yi city? i don't really go there but i know i've read some meta about how it's like 3zuns and a lot of people compare jgy and xy and was wondering what you thought.

I don't go there either and writing a post deconstructing the idea that there are parallels between Yi City and 3zun could get messy, but I'll make an attempt. Here goes, this got quite long.

As far as I'm aware, fandom when it conflates Yi City and 3zun draws parallels roughly thus:

JGY = XY

LXC = XXC

NMJ = SL

Well there sure are three guys in each group! I mean actually Yi City has four key characters but AQ is a girl and who cares about those right? Right? Fandom, as always I am regarding you disapprovingly over my lorgnette.

Character parallels (or a lack thereof)

XY is hyperviolent and takes excessive revenge for the smallest of slights and takes pleasure in extreme violence and cruelty. JGY endures an onslaught of slights with smiling forbearance, and while he commits acts of extreme violence always does so under duress or in service of a larger goal (though he can certainly enjoy it to a degree). He even outlines his personal philosophy to XY in Villainous Friends, which XY not only rejects but doesn't even fully comprehend.

XXC is an idealist with limited experience of the depths of human cruelty, vulnerable to being preyed on by bad faith actors exploiting said ideals, and when those ideals are shattered he is unable to endure it. LXC's entire deal is that he has a clear understanding of the gap between ideals and reality; witness, he is the one constantly pointing out how few options JGY has and how that informs his actions.

SL is a man of upright morals who wants to break from traditional clan-based practices. When he loses his temper with XXC in a highly emotional context, he subsequently feels deep shame and tries to find him to make amends. NMJ is a moral stickler, but hypocritical and obsessed with the blood-based legacy of his clan. He flies into regular rages which over time escalate to become more and more murderous; he never attempts to make amends for anything he has done during said rages.

Narrative parallels (or a lack thereof)

Again from what I can tell, a proportion of fandom seems to have decided that JGY is some kind of XY lite, hiding behind LXC's skirts and making a diabolical neko face as NMJ points out how evil he is and LXC blithely ignores it. This is then being conflated with XXC being tricked by XY and SL being the one whose arrival at Yi City blows up the status quo.

Except this isn't really accurate to either group.

LXC and NMJ are not partners in ideals or ambition. They each have very different ways of seeing the world and are each responsible for their own clans. They're good friends, but we know that LXC's motivation for suggesting the sworn brotherhood is to improve relations between NMJ and JGY i.e. to protect JGY from NMJ's wrath, and we know NMJ's motive is to regain authority over JGY. There's no indication that they would have entered into a sworn brotherhood with each other if JGY hadn't been present. They're good friends but they're just not a matched pair like XXC and SL.

JGY does not intrude on some cosy scenario and cuckoo his way into LXC's life by means of deception. He saves LXC's life, protects him, gives him the funds to rebuild his clan, and is upfront about who he is and what his parentage is from the beginning. Obviously he keeps secrets from LXC, but he doesn't enter LXC's life under false pretences. I presume people think JGY's use of Turmoil can be compared to XY's use of corpse powder, but there is an ocean of difference between using your friend's house key to steal a piece of paper you need in order to take out your mutual friend who has repeatedly and recently literally tried to kill you and ... literally tricking your friend into murdering a bunch of innocent villagers and laughing about it.

LXC knows a high percentage of what JGY has done and isn't defending him due to ignorance of his actions but due to a sincere belief in their necessity and/or an understanding that JGY's options are limited and he is doing the best he can in the circumstances. This attitude continues in the temple, when he refuses to turn aside from questioning JGY in an effort to reconcile JGY's additional secrets with the man he knows. Meanwhile, during the confrontation between XXC and XY, XXC is steadfast in his rejection of XY's thesis statement and when he succumbs it is to despair rather than to XY's justifications.

Rather than being oblivious to the danger JGY poses, LXC is not fully confronting the fact that NMJ is incredibly dangerous and an ongoing threat to JGY's life; and, for that matter, the lives of others too. Remember NMJ cut down plenty of his own cultivators under his qi deviation, and said qi deviation was merely accelerated rather than created by JGY's playing of Turmoil. SL is no danger to anyone and continues to selflessly travel and do good where he can. He takes ownership of his mistakes and commits to doing penance in the hope that he can ultimately make amends.

It really cannot be overstated how dangerous NMJ is both to JGY and everyone around him. He's a ticking time bomb and that is not remotely comparable to SL, a genuinely upright man who makes a huge mistake and in trying to put it right stumbles into a twisted situation and gets horribly murdered. SL isn't obsessed with the potential for destruction exhibited by a man who is doing his best to navigate an impossible situation because he has to follow his father's awful instructions or be eliminated; he's trying to stop the man who massacred his temple, maimed him, and used his own best friend as a murder weapon for the fun of it.

It's not that XY doesn't have affection for XXC; he clearly does love him in his own way, and XXC is the shizun cum father cum big brother he never had. It's notable that XY stops with the corpse powder after a while and settles into his domestic life with XXC and AQ (remember her). But he very obviously has no understanding of XXC's moral framework, and it's not that he learned better so much as he no longer has a desire to revenge himself on XXC and can't quite bring himself to examine that.

Miscellaneous dynamics (oh no, I'm going to talk about pairings)

Guys, A-Qing is there. She is there, like, she is super there, she is our viewpoint character, she is not some optional add-on. She's crucial to the entire dynamic and whenever I have dipped a toe in Yi City I'm usually frustrated to see that the miraculous plot change that has spared XXC has omitted to spare AQ. Or, if she is spared, she gets relegated to daughter or little sister status while XY is elevated to being one corner of the Songxuexiao triad.

So let's talk about pairings. Here is my position, which I must stress is based on MDZS not CQL.

If there is any significant potential for a romantic read on the relationships between any of these characters, it's solely between XXC and SL. They are completely committed to each other, love each other deeply, and are each the most important person in the other's life. SL is committed to finding XXC to right the wrong he did him, and XXC is so committed to SL that when he thinks he's to blame for the death of SL's surrogate family he literally gifts him his own eyes.

The dynamic between XXC and XY is really more of a familial or mentorly one. XXC is providing guidance and support that XY has never received in his life, and XY is responding as a child experiencing actual care for the first time. He's still not capable of understanding or accepting that his past actions are wrong, but, like a child, he thinks he can sweep them under the rug and go on as though they never happened. It's not that he's learnt better; it's that he doesn't need to commit mass violence any more.

But even if you could make a successful argument for XY's feelings being romantic, and even if you could successfully argue that XXC returns them (a massive stretch), whatever kind of relationship they have is fundamentally unworkable and doomed. Sooner or later, even in a scenario where SL survives, XXC will discover the truth and reject XY utterly. In their final confrontation he is hurt, appalled, trying to understand... but he's not trying to understand so he can find his way back to the XY he thought he knew. He's trying to understand in the way a shell-shocked soldier is trying to understand. He shows no openness to XY's explanations and no indication whatsoever that any reconciliation is possible.

XY doesn't understand this at first, but when he does realise it—that's the moment he reveals the presence of SL's fierce corpse. The moment of no return is years in their past, but XY only grasps this when XXC refuses to accept or engage with the narrative he's created in his own mind about how justified his actions are.

It's very telling that, when XXC is being slammed with revelations, the moment that finally breaks him is when he finds out that SL is dead by his own hand. And, to loop back round to dismantling false parallels between Yi City and 3zun, this should really be compared to LXC's reaction to his minor role in NMJ's death. He's appalled in the moment, but it doesn't even come up during the temple discussions and he's constantly seeking explanations and accepting the logic of many of JGY's responses.

[fincalinde]

fake dating, established relationship, getting together

Fake dating - C in general, F for Xiyao

Although I don't normally enjoy romance where the entire plot is predicated on neither character possessing the capacity to initiate an adult conversation, it can definitely be done well—particularly when comedic. If there are good reasons for the lack of communication and I'm not reading about two adults acting like a particularly insulting stereotype of tweenage girls, I'm on board! But this trope is just all wrong for Xiyao. They are the kings, nay the emperors of good communication. Here are the circumstances in which JGY and LXC struggle to communicate effectively: when LXC fails to take on board exactly how dangerous NMJ has become, so JGY quite reasonably assumes that LXC won't be on board with the NMJ murder and the incest marriage even if all the context is explained to him. Anyone sane would make this assumption, even though in a painfully ironic twist LXC actually does listen and is on the way to following JGY's logic even if he's deeply unhappy about it (understatement) during the temple. This is how far we need to go to stop communication between this pair. They've been best friends and close confidantes for 20+ years, starting in their teens. JGY even knows all the Wangxian gossip! And in a situation where fake dating is possible, real dating is possible. Which means they are already real dating. QED.

Established relationship - A

Gimme gimme. Not everything has to be an origin story, and with Xiyao in particular they're already so close that, logistical challenges and societal expectations aside, their internal dynamic shifts very little if they transition from friendship to romance. I'm not mad keen on canon reads where they've secretly been together all along, as I think at best it's a resistant read that requires some heavy lifting, but it is something that I'll stretch to and I'd be a hypocrite to judge that particular read too harshly when I've used it myself in at least one fic.

Getting together - B

Yeah not everything has to be an origin story, but I still like a good origin story. This does drop down to C in the sense that I think it's difficult to execute Xiyao acting on their romantic tension in the canon setting and I'm not interested in AUs where everything is theoretically the same but somehow it's suddenly OK for Lan-zongzhu and Meng Yao Xiandu to enter into a marriage that would be biologically childless by definition. But with other pairings where this trope is easier to execute, it's definitely something I don't mind coming across.