#that nepeta and equius seem set up to fail

[caligvlasaqvarivm]

Would love to hear your thought on meowrails break up and who they end up with?! Especially interested in Hal <> Nepeta!

Ok! Just a disclaimer before anything: this is not at all saying you shouldnt ship the meowrails, this is just a canon discussion blog and I have noticed... some stuff... but ship whatever you want, I literally don't care, all HCs are valid, etc. etc.

"Everyone has an important job to do." This is a phrase that gets repeated in Hivebent a few times, which makes it important, as Homestuck often uses repetition to build up an "internal lexicon" and deliberately highlight when situations have similar connotations (Hussie discusses this on their Formspring). So what's the context for this specific phrase? Well, it shows up three times, and for at least two of those times, it's associated with failed moirallegiances.

GA: But It Just Means Theres Got To Be Someone Around To Keep An Eye On Them GA: And If Not Me Then Who GA: Everyone Has An Important Job To Do AG: Ok, so you're spying on me. Kind of creepy! Man, m8y8e you should get a l8fe.

And

CC: I will need to connect after my goofball moirail does so I can keep my goggles on )(is nefarious escapades. CC: Its a toug)( job but its important! Everyone )(as an important job to do.

So, okay, apparently the context of this phrase is "this person is in a moirallegiance that will NOT work out"... well, here's the third time it pops up (though it's the first time chronologically):

Your best pal of all is A LITTLE BOSSY, and people wonder why you even bother with him. But someone has to keep him pacified. If not you, then who? Everyone has an important job to do.

So... hm. This isn't the only thing I have to say about meowrails breakup, but it is the most prominent one, and maybe the most damning, depending on how much weight you put into Homestuck's oft-deliberate use of parallels.

Maybe something a bit more damning is the way Hussie speaks about them in the book commentary? Pretty much every time they turn up, he has some comment to make about how Equius doesn't really "need" Nepeta, and about how he tends to talk over her and usurp her agency, like so many shitty boyfriends IRL.

We don't know much about Equius yet, but we get an awful lot of info about him with this excerpt. He's racist, a huge snob, doesn't like swearing, is stern and controlling, has a patronizing fondness for Nepeta, and thinks archery is cool because of its association with nobility. Combine this with the snapshot of his room we'll see soon, and suddenly we have an extensive character portrait. This was all important to establish quickly, because it helps us understand in record time that Equius is in fact one of the greatest characters ever created.

Equius says he appreciates that Nepeta's angry. I guess meaning that he respects an angry disposition, like his own. Especially early on in his characterization, it's suggested he has anger issues (like him taking his rage out on robot dummy combatants). But I'm not sure this trait holds up. Over time, he seems to show a lot more passion about his weird stuff, his passion for archery and muscular horse men, his submissive obsessions, his deference toward those higher on the hemospectrum and fetish-like indulgence in depraved attraction toward those lower. Ultimately he comes off more as a ridiculous nerd, with a soft spot for a lot of silly and creepy shit. My view on this is, it's not that the text lost track of the fact that he was supposed to be angry. It's more that this was his initial state of mind early on, and the more he started blowing off steam with his various indulgences (Aradiabot, etc.) the less he had to be mad about. We just meet him at a really high-strung point in his life. I think it's more accurate to say his "anger" is a form of hyperintense focus on being stern, aloof, proper, and averse to nonsense, which is a facade serving to cover up his inner personality, which is barely in control at all. Like Nepeta suggests, deep down he wants to play the kinds of silly games she plays. He wants to let go completely, and indulge every ludicrous and depraved whim he has. His arc tends to be more about caving to these indulgences, and all the mixed consequences that follow, than resisting them.

Here's [S] Equius: Seek the highbl00d, another playable RPG game. [...] But Christ, why am I talking about that garbage when we are about to review some truly choice material focusing exclusively on your favorite meowrails. It is a great illustration of their tragic dynamic; deeply committed and caring partners in the diamonds quadrant, and yet compromised by Equius and his stubborn class-driven faults, his pathological reverence for his superiors, his forced and probably not genuinely felt sense of disdain for lower bloods like Nepeta, and ultimately his failure to rise above these flaws when presented with a real test of character and friendship. A test imposed, of course, by a boorish murderclown, who from this point onward just ruins fucking everything, constantly.

Hussie is an unreliable narrator (of the "he's deliberately playing a character who's biased, opinionated, and sometimes wrong, because a major theme of Homestuck is that you have to question who's telling the story and if they can be trusted" variety), so it's difficult to parse exactly what he's saying is salient, especially since he talks so damn much. But even so, he constantly goes out of his way to highlight how the meowrails DON'T work out - which is even pretty canon in the comic.

In Hivebent, the two are established as working along this dynamic: Nepeta soothes Equius's anger issues, while Equius keeps Nepeta from recklessly endangering herself (for example, prohibiting her from LARPing). But as Hussie says, Equius's anger problems become basically nonexistent by the time Murderstuck rolls around, and his actual problem is his overindulgence in his fetishes; meanwhile, his bossy, controlling attitude to Nepeta was always kind of suspect, but it actively becomes a source of frustration to her that she can't wait to shirk (he bans her from talking to the humans, and she goes behind his back to do it anyways - even celebrates when Karkat gives her express permission).

In the end, they die for their failures as a moirallegiance - despite being fresh off a feelings jam in a pile, and so, supposedly at their least likely to hurt themselves or others, Equius's horny gets him killed (Hussie has always maintained across multiple platforms that Equius could've easily overpowered Gamzee, he just chose not to because Hot), and Nepeta doesn't listen to his orders to stay put. In later conversations with ARquiussprite, Equius is always framed as the one here who was wrong - who failed to keep Nepeta safe and has something to apologize for. I think it's also pretty important to notice that in the bubbles, Equius is never seen doing so - but IS seen being really weird to Aradias - fully implying that he's actually been avoiding taking accountability to Nepeta in favor of indulging in his fetish shit, out of shame and guilt.

As Hussie says, the meowrails are an important relationship, and when I say they don't work out, I don't mean they shouldn't have been together in the first place. On the contrary; I think they actually were good for each other, way back on Alternia. Nepeta DID keep Equius's frustrations in check, and Equius DID keep Nepeta out of trouble. But as time went on, Equius just got really comfortable with treating Nepeta like an object he owned - something convenient, which he can use when he's feeling sad, and ignore otherwise - and Nepeta started growing frustrated with his increasingly petty control. They grew as people, their needs changed, and they stopped being good for each other, but they stayed together - out of inertia and sunk cost fallacy on Nepeta's end, and on Equius's end, because it was convenient and pleasant (for him) and useful (for him) so why would he throw it away?

While this is something I think could potentially be worked out with relationship therapy, the thing with Homestuck is that it's big into the idea of soulmates, especially in the pale quadrant (which is described with that exact term). Its ultimate thesis on romance is that, while you have to do a lot of personal work in order to be the kind of person who can BE in a soul mates relationship, ultimately a relationship SHOULD have an element of just... easy compatability, idiosyncracies clicking together in just the right way to bring out the best in both parties. It's idealized, and there's criticism to be made about that, but that's still ultimately how romance kind of functions in Homestuck. The perfect match is out there for you, and while you have some growing to do in order to be ready for it, it's supposed to be easy once you get there. Consider how Eridan can calm Karkat down literally just by talking to him normally, or how Sollux regularly outright professes that Feferi's just fucking amazing - these are relationships where the involved parties don't need to tell themselves "everyone has an important job to do" with grit teeth to justify keeping the relationship going.

Meowrails lacks that inherent compatability, according to the evidence, but of course, that brings up the question of who they SHOULD date in pale instead. Hey, did you ever notice that Dirk (and by extension, Hal) are EXTREMELY Equius-coded?

So here's the thing. Hal's favorite alpha kid is Roxy, who is also pretty Nepeta-themed, being a cat-associated Rogue. They regularly flirtLARP with each other, but when we get a glimpse of this so called flirtLARPing, it's actually Roxy almost, but not quite, getting Hal to admit that he's actually not really that into Jake, he just feels obligated, as an extension of Dirk, to make DirkJake happen. They almost, but not quite, have a feelings jam.

Meanwhile, Hal outright calls his conversation with Dirk, as Dirk grapples with whether or not he should kill Hal, a "feelings jam", and Dirk also has a convo with Caliborn about how maybe he should consider the merits of selfcest.

What these interactions hint at, to me, is Nepeta <> Hal, and Equius <> Dirk... and I think if you consider it from the standpoint of their personalities, it works, too?

Nepeta is pretty consistently shown to have a knack for knowing how other people actually feel. Her shipping charts are incorrect in terms of compatability, but she's got a scary knack for reading intentions and desires - as befits a non-destructive Heart player. She's able to pinpoint that Eridan's advances on her are insincere, but he's not that bad a guy; she notices that Karkat is a big softie who loves his friends so much; she correctly reads that Equius is a big ol' goofball who loves to play games. Hal, as a Mind player, and even more as originally being a Dirk splinter and an AI, is deeply distressed by his lack of "self"-hood; it's Roxy who calls out first and most blatantly that he's clearly his own guy with his own real feelings, which seems to be why he gravitates toward her. Nepeta would do this even harder, since it's kind of her entire Thing, and I think Hal would really appreciate that, since Hal is at his worst when he thinks he's acting in someone else's best interest (Sylph lol).

Meanwhile, what Nepeta really needs IS an enabler. She's a rebellious soul with radical ideas about how the hemospectrum is stupid and dumb, and she's RIGHT and she should SAY IT. Hal's amazing at giving people what they "want", pulling strings to ensure DirkJake happens, while also framing it as something that Jake would want - this bombastic, action hero kiss-in-front-of-a-volcano. Nepeta's clearly attracted to characters with Equius-esque qualities, but after spending so long with Equius, who does nothing but push her down with a patronizing "hush, greenblood, it's for your own good," I think she would do well with an insane partner in crime who instead goes "fuck yeah girl, let's make this shit happen." Especially since her personal insecurities are that other people will find her dumb and silly (an impression that Equius certainly didn't HELP with...) - having Hal in her corner going "uhhh you're literally my favorite and I will engineer situations to fall directly in your favor?" would be a huge help to her.

I'm actually not entirely sold on equius <> dirk - they're maybe too similar? - i have in my notes here john <> dirk and equius <> jake. idk. the shipping web starts to get complicated

[skeletorific]

(Sorry if it’s already been asked)what’s your interpretation/view of the quadrants? What in your mind makes an healthy and unhealthy quadrantship?

*distant drumbeat* I’ve been WAITING for this one! Turn it up!!!!

So, a few general notes about quadrants before getting into a breakdown. First, I don’t think there’s a hard and fast definition of what makes, say, a healthy kismessitude, any more than there’s a hard and fast definition of a healthy human relationship. What would be toxic and terrible for one couple may be exactly what keeps a different relationship together. Meowrails is very different from pale Vrisrezi, because Equius and Nepeta are different people with different wants and needs in a relationship than Vriska and Terezi. As with all bonds, it’s important to look at a broader trend of behavior and the individual mental health levels before you can say “this is unhealthy”. I DO think there are certain things to watch out for, but ultimately I probably have ships in that quadrant that may violate one or more of those “no-nos” just because of how those characters bounce off each other. 

Second, I think there’s more fluidity in quadrants than the fandom typically allows for, because human relationships are also by their nature fluid. We’ve all seen a set of best friends who act like a couple even if they aren’t romantically interested, and we’ve seen couples who bicker and squabble despite being deeply in love. How you choose to identify your relationship is ultimately nobody’s business but your own, even if red love for you looks like pale love to someone else. Alternian troll culture is romance obsessed and this can lend itself to an obsession with defining the attraction, but this doesn’t mean that’s necessarily how it HAS to be.

Finally, I’ll be listing ALL confirmed canon examples of each quadrant to provide a context for what I’m referencing. This should not be taken as necessary endorsement for any of these ships, or even that I think they were a “good example”, simply that how they chose to identify influenced my own definition of these quadrants. I will also be leaving out a lot of ships that would seem to fit a particular quadrant (noteably Rosemary and Arasol) because their own status is complicated in-text (Rose explicitly refers to wanting to be in all of Kanaya’s quadrants and their relationship has tended explicitly pitch at points, Sollux is referred to as Aradia’s “boyfriend” and yet there is apparently no issue between either of them when his flush quadrant becomes occupied)

With that, let’s dig in

Matespritship:

Successful/Actually Date(d) Examples: Dad/Mom, Latula/Mituna, Meulin/Kurloz, Aranea/Porrim, Mindfang/Summoner, Meenah/Vriska, Sollux/Feferi, Konyyl/Azdaja (currently vacillating), Stelsa/Tyzias

Crushes (unrequited, vacillating, or thwarted): Eridan/Feferi, Kanaya/Vriska, Nepeta/Karkat, Equius/Aradia, Tavros/Jade, Gamzee/Tavros, Sollux/Gamzee, Jack/PM, Lynera/Bronya

What it means to me: Matespritship tends to be an opt-out quadrant for a lot of people, I think. Most seem to stop reading at “closely analogous to human conceptions of romance” and turn off their brains. However, as with all things troll culture, I think there’s more to it the deeper you go, especially considering the fact that your moirail is expected to do a LOT of what we would consider standard s/o stuff: caretaking, comfort, intimate knowledge, closeness. I absolutely refuse to buy that the only thing distinguishing the two is that matesprits have sex, especially since that stumble into some VERY UNCOMFORTABLE territory in regards to troll asexuality. So then, if it’s not that, then what is it?

Ultimately I keep coming back to the idea of passion. Your matesprit I think is the person who you genuinely see in the best possible light. Unusual for Alternian society, you’re unable to ignore the depths of your admiration of them, or to let their flaws filter into your perception. Moiraillegiance is about total honesty and unflinching recognition, but matespritship to me is about that kind of fairy tale passion. Its a person who, even if you know on an intellectual level they are not perfect, that you genuinely have a harder time seeing the darker side of because you are so consumed by this passion for what you see in them, your unfiltered awe and appreciation for who they are. 

Additionally, I see matespritship as on some level inherently possessive. You not only admire that person, but you fundamentally crave their attention in a way that is probably a bit on the selfish side. Its not enough to want good for them, it has to be good alongside you. This is typically where it’s more prone to flipping caliginous. 

Warning signs: Matespritships seemed to vacillate pitch FREQUENTLY on Alternia. This is not necessarily a sign that something is wrong. As Karkat says, it’s often a matter of communication and timing. However, it does have the potential to explode in everyone’s face if not carefully managed, in no small part due to the passionate emotions involved. Some things that tend to go bad fast:

-Admiration is key to an effective matespritship, but pedestalling your flushed partner too much can be dangerous. Once the flaws do become apparent (as they will in any relationship) they can become increasingly hard to ignore, and that can be SHATTERING if you don’t prepare.

-Especially on Alternia, matesprits are the quadrant I see as most likely to neglect the communication aspect of their relationship. Safety isn’t a factor for them like it is for more caliginous quadrants, and the expectation is usually that feelings jams are for moirails. Especially for younger trolls, there’s an idea that we’re in love and thus should just know what the other person needs/wants. If you don’t pick up on it, then maybe we aren’t meant to be. This is a trap. ALL relationships need communication in order to function on a day to day basis. Opening up to your matesprit about something that’s bothering you isn’t a sign of fading passion, but of maturity and your own changing needs.

-Despite a fondness for fate pairings I think matespritships are usually expected to fade out, in no small part because they’re founded on a level of passion that can be hard to keep up long-term. This is actually fine. Not all relationships are meant to last eternally. However, if you know your matesprit is a person you want in your life long-term, part of that is learning how to cope with periods of low passion. Its normal to not always feel an all-consuming desire to keep your matesprit in arms reach. It’s normal to need space. What’s important is that YOU know that you still love them, and that they have the confidence to know that’s true even when you can’t always express it.

Moirallegiance

Successful/Actually Date(d) Examples: Kanaya/Vriska, Eridan/Feferi, Gamzee/Karkat, Nepeta/Equius, Kurloz/Mituna, Meulin/Horuss, Terezi/Vriska, Kuprum/Folykl, MSPAR/Polypa, Xefros/Dammek

Crushes (unrequited, vacillating, or thwarted): Eridan/Karkat, MSPAR/Chixie, MSPAR/Stelsa, Tegiri/Polypa

What it means to me: To start out with, I haaaaaaaate hate hate the perception that moirails are just BFFs. To me, there’s too much evidence to suggest otherwise, not the least of which being that after Feferi ends their moirallegiance she tells Eridan she still wants to be friends with him. How many of you break up with your best friend and then tell them you can still be friends after?

To me, moirallegiance on Alternia is as much a coping mechanism at it is a romantic entanglement. In a society where there’s no such thing as therapy, your moirail ideally functions as a release valve for you, to help you exercise softer feelings in a safe, sanctioned environment. Two things are key in that dynamic: honesty, and selflessness.

There’s no pretense in a moirallegiance, but an unflinching embrace. The successful moirails we’ve seen (Meowrails, KupFol, arguably GamKar) have always been rooted in banter that may come off as pitch at first glance. This is partly due to general Alternian socialization practice, but I think it also stems from the fact that pale love is founded in knowing every inch of your partner. You know what they are, body and soul, the flaws and the highlights, and while you do not uncritically accept it like a matesprit might, some part of you fundamentally identifies with. Your moirail is that person who you feel like you’ve known for years after talking for a few hours, because something about how they’re wired clicks with you in a way most don’t. As such, there’s less need for posturing. A feelings jam is one of the few places on Alternia where you are allowed to admit to vulnerability, to fear, to frustration, because you know that the other person will have your back unquestioningly without letting you get away with bullshit.

This mutual support stems from the other half of pale love: the desire to see the other person flourish, no matter what. If the matesprit wants you to be happy at their side, the moirail wants you to flourish even if they do not stand to benefit. You experience your moirail’s success like it was your own, and want as good for them or better than you want for yourself.

Some warning signs:

-Burnout. We see this in most clearly in Eridan and Feferi’s case (and a bit in Gamzee and Karkat’s case), but its a genuine risk in moirallegiance. The caretaking HAS to go both ways or the relationship is doomed to fail. More often than not, burnout indicates a failure within the relationship. Your moirail has not been caring for you to the degree you need, and quite possibly you have not been communicating HOW you would like that behavior to change. As I said, honesty is essential, and things ideally should never reach the point of burnout because you are in constant complete openness with your moirail about how you need taking care of.

-Fucked expectations. Romance is a dominating subject on Alternia, for obvious reasons, and one of the biggest hits a moirallegiance can take is a person questioning too far into pale desire until they mistake it for something else. The two are very close, but they are not exactly the same thing and often times the relationship can be sunk by one person getting in their head about that intimacy until they try to make it something it isn’t. Moiraillegiance is not a stepping stone for matesprit or kismesis, and most importantly it is not a consolation prize quadrant. You should never “settle” for moirail, or pale date someone who will accept you as a moirail only if they can’t get you as anything else. You need to want a moirail for a moirails sake, or its just a crush with extra levels of fuckery and expected free therapy.

Kismessitude

Successful/Actually Date(d) Examples: Spades Slick/Sn0wman, Jack Noir/Black Queen, Eridan/Vriska (now broken up), Karkat/Karkat, Mindfang/Dualscar, Terezi/Gamzee, Tagora/Galekh, Bronya/Elwurd.

Crushes (unrequited, thwarted, vacillating): Eridan/Rose, Vriska/Tavros,  Karkat/John, Gamzee/Dave, Sollux/Gamzee, Eridan/Sollux, PM/Bec Noir, Terezi/Vriska, John/Terezi, Konyyl/Skylla, Daraya/Lynera

What it means to me:

I want to structure this as a dismantling of two very common misconceptions I see for this quadrant. One, kismesis is NOT the inherent abuse quadrant. This I believe is working with a faulty definition of what abuse is. Abuse is not simply being mean or engaging in a physical manner with somebody. As has become something of a mantra for this essay, its about expectations. Abuse requires someone to be taking advantage, exploiting a particular vulnerability (or creating it if none inherently exists). What makes a relationship abusive is a situation where someone you SHOULD be able to trust or care for uses those expectations to hurt you, either for personal gain or simply to make themselves feel better. A kismesis is not that, because a healthy kismesis goes in with the expectation of rivalry. For some kismeses, this looks like basic sniping, insults, and jabs. For others, it looks like actual fighting. In either case, its the difference between a boxing match and assault. As long as the rules are being respected, both parties are consented, and someone is checking in to ensure that no one is hurting themselves (sometimes your partner, sometimes your moirail, sometimes your auspitice), then there is nothing inherently wrong with having a circumstance in which you are allowed to work through some nastier feelings without fear of consequence or hurting someone who can’t take it.

The second misconception: kismesis is not just a relationship with some bitchier dialogue. As we’ve seen, being a little bit rude is not restricted to pitch feelings. We have many examples of it in relationships that would be considered unequivocally red or pale on Alternia (KupFol, MeenVris). I go back to the Karkat dialogue constantly. Your kismesis is not just a person you make fun of, but something closer to your true rival (in the shonen anime sense). Its a person who you see so much good (or potential for good in), but who is brought down by some kind of fatal flaw that just grates at you. And so, you fixate on the idea of pushing them out of that flaw, through whatever means necessary.

Its from this fatal flaw that I believe the benefits of kismesis come out. Your kismesis, like your matesprit, has intense passion for you, but doesn’t idealize you. In fact, at points your kismesis may be incredibly aware of the WORST possible version of you. What distinguishes it from platonic hate, though, is the fact that you at your worst doesn’t make them flinch. It makes them want to provoke you, to see how you can change. Kismeses sharpen each other, which is something that rarely feels good but is so often necessary. You should never let your kismesis sit back too far on their laurels, because it is your job to be consciously aware of their faults and call them out on it. 

Additionally, while the hatefucking aspect is often overestimated, I think its not surprising that passion in these kinds of relationships tend to get intense, which is part of why it so often requires some kind of ashen intervention. Once harnessed, though, that passion can be turned to powerful ends for both yourselves and the world around you. 

Some things to watch out for (unsurprisingly there’s a LOT for this one but I’ve distilled it into two broad ones because this thing will be long enough):

Power imbalance: As I said, kismesis is not inherently abusive. However, it DECIDEDLY has the potential to become so, in particular in a society like Alternia where the power strafes are often so significant. This is particularly the case in pitch relationships involving a highblood and a lowblood, especially when the highblood is “steering the ship”. Vriska/Tavros is a good example. If summarized, her feelings for Tavros pre-Sgrub are very straightforward and healthy pitch ones. She admires his potential and envies his kinder relationships while despising his indecisiveness. All fine enough groundwork. However, three factors collaborate to make it a hot disaster: Tavros’s disinterest in her (meaning the pitch advances are unwelcome and in some real sense nonconsensual), Vriska’s own lack of restraint (meaning she takes things too far even for a kismesis), and the inherent caste imbalance (meaning Tavros has no meaningful way of fighting back and nothing in Vriska’s rearing has taught her to care if a lowblood gets hurt by her actions). This isn’t to say a highblood-lowblood (or any humanly imbalanced relationship) can NEVER work, but it requires both parties to put the work in to even the playing field. The highblood needs to actively show restraint, both physically and situationally. This is also where an auspitice generally comes in handy, ensuring things never get to a point where the action becomes one-sided.

Misdirected Rage: As I said, kismessitude is a Space, much like moiraillegiance, that gives you the opportunity to work through some less-than-palatable emotions. Using a pitch date as a way to burn off stress is not inherently invalid; in fact, its often expected and as long as your partner is willing can be one of the better ways to cope with something without having to address it directly. However, this CANNOT be built into the foundation of the relationship. Your kismesis is not a punching bag, but their own person, and the focus always needs to eventually return to that. You cannot effectively sharpen someone else if your anger is never about them, and it is ultimately unfair to constantly ask someone else to consistently bear the brunt of your bad days. This is (debatably) where pitch Gamrezi went wrong. Ultimately that kismesis was never really about each other, but about both of them projecting their self-loathing onto the other person when they were both at incredibly low place, thus making their anger unproductive and meaningless for both of them. As such, any kind of empathy was impossible and they were not able to self-regulate. 

Auspiticism

Succesful/Actually Date(d): Vriska/Kanaya/Tavros, Karkat/Jade/Karkat, Spades Slick/Doc Scratch/Sn0wman, Liv Tyler/Courtyard Droll/Wizardly Vassal, PM/Jade/Bec Noir, Kanaya/Vriska/Rose

Crushes (unrequited, thwarted, vacillating): Vriska/Kanaya/Eridan, Gamzee/Rose/Terezi (look I know this one is practically canon but Rose kind of implies she never really used those auspiticism lessons), Rose/Kanaya/Horrorterrors, Eridan/Feferi/Sollux, Gamzee/Kanaya/Karkat, Dave/Kanaya/Karkat, Konyyl/MSPA Reader/Azdaja.

What it means to me: Ahh the bastard child of quadrants. I’ve got a lot of unpopular opinions on auspiticism (most notably that Kanaya isn’t actually that good at it), but let’s start with defining some things. I believe there are two kinds of auspitices. 

One is the “breakup” auspitice. This is the version described in the infamous romance pages of Homestuck. This version is meant to prevent a black romance from breaking out where one shouldn’t occur, either because one or both parties already has a kismesis or because there is some other mitigating factor that means neither can afford to get bogged down in this crush. A breakup auspitice should ideally be a figure that both parties trust, even in the midst of heated feelings. They should also have the strength of will to continually interfere, and a clear enough head to cut to the root of the issue. Its a thankless task, often, but a very vital one, and most importantly, short-lived. This auspitice’s job only lasts as long as the feelings last. Once both parties have had the chance to cool down (or the circumstances creating the rivalry are at an end), their job is considered over.

The other kind is the version that we arguably see more of in canon, what I call the Third Leaf. This is less an intercessary party and more the third member of a particularly tempestuous kismesis, who will act to ensure the other two leaves don’t cause serious harm to themselves or each other. This relationship is far more long-term, and thus has more requirements. To me, your auspitice is someone who has pale potential with both you AND your kismesis. They know and care about you both on a very deep level, to the point that they are willing to put themselves in the middle of your bullshit very consistently. This means that you trust them enough to call it quits even in the heat of your anger, and you also believe what they tell you about your own pitch partner when their actions need greater contextualization to keep things on the level. This task is often equally challenging, but (hopefully) not as thankless or as pragmatic.

I’ve previously referred to the auspitice as a personified safeword, and I believe that’s very emblematic of the Third Leaf. Even healthy kismeses may reach a point where one needs a day off, or something hits in the wrong way. In a rivalry, though, admitting that isn’t necessarily easy, as its both breaking kayfabe and has the potential to read as more weakness that needs to be excised (”it hurts because its working”). The auspitice is privileged to go between and be believed every time. If your auspitice says its a no go then you better have a pretty damn good reason to ignore them. For some kismeses, overriding the auspitice is grounds to break up once and for all. 

Some warning signs:

Burnout: As is the case with the previously discussed concilliatory quadrant, caretaking can be exhausting. This is especially the case in auspiticism, where the care is often expected to be very one sided, and usually involves dealing with a lot of vitriol, anger, and even physical violence. Obviously its more prevalent in Third Leaf dynamics, but even breakup auspitices can reach a breaking point if they’re not careful. Its important as the ashenmate to understand your own limits. For better or for worse, the focus will not be on you. If you are reaching a low point, then you need to be vocal about this with your other two leaves, or disaster is almost inevitable. The trade-off for this is that (according to my headcanons at least), your ashenmates are expected to drop everything to care for you if you need it. The kismesis will not be safe to proceed until you are back in fighting shape, and as such a truce is declared until they have both done “aftercare” of a sort for you. What this looks like is different for every auspiticism. For some, its alone time. For others, its blanket burritos, movies, and forehead kisses. No matter what, though its IMPERATIVE that you find a method that works for you, because the relationship crumbles without self-care.

Doormatting: As I said, auspiticism is a concilliatory quadrant. As such, there can be a tendency to over-forgive or overwork, especially if your other two leaves have stronger personalities. In particular, ausptices who are closer with one leaf over the other need to be vigilant for favoritism or bowing down. It is your job to contextualize the actions of your ashenmates. It is not your job to do apologetics for them or atone for their actions. Hold them all accountable. They need to be putting in at least as much work as you do to make their relationship work and not just offset the emotional repair to you.

Controlling: The inverse of this is the power-tripping auspitice. This seems unlikely, but its more of a threat than one might think, in my view. Because of the trust auspitices command by virtue of their position and their relationship with the other two leaves, their word is in some sense law. This can be addictive to some people, and lead to an abuse of power that can be just as toxic as in any other quadrant. It can look like scolding your ashenmates far too much, placing yourself at the center of their issues, or even punishing them for annoying you when what they’re doing is perfectly acceptable within the context of a kismessitude. As I said, self-care is important for an auspitice, but selflessness needs to be at the core of concilliatory dynamics. You are here because you genuinely want good for the people you are mediating for. If the relationship has become all about you, then something has gone horribly wrong. Avoid the urge to power trip just because the role is sometimes a Lot. 

[luminescentlyricist]

♌ Tea Cups And Tenderness ♐

arsenicCatnip [AC] began trolling centaursTesticle [CT]

AC: :33 < *ac smiles at ct, swishing her tail and waving in a welcoming meownner*

CT: D --> Hello, Nepeta.

AC: :33 < *ac pounces on ct, glad that her meowrail is here to k33p her company*

CT: D --> I am glad you are here too, you make for e%cellent company.

AC: :33 < *ac asks ct how his day is going, hoping for a pawsitive answer*

CT: D --> I must confess that I am rather lonely.

AC: :33 < *furrowning, ac asks why, dropping off his back and nuzzling his cheek comfortingly*

CT: D --> Because you are not here in person.

centaursTesticle [CT] ceased trolling arsenicCatnip [AC]

~~~~

Equius knew that his love for the catlike troll was... morally wrong, just as his feelings for Aradia had been. To a lesser degree, yes, but to have feelings for a lowerblood of any level felt distinctly unbecoming, as did having feelings for a higherblood. He felt as if he had his place in the world, and he was determined to keep it as it was. He had feelings for no 'b100b100d', however, and thus was conflicted.

Nepeta stared longingly at her shipping wall for periods of time, often ones that were considered troubling. She was almost obsessive, the way she cared about the more-often-than-not imaginary relationships she had constructed and displayed, displayed as her pride and joy. She cared for Equius so, so much. But she couldn't shake the careful drawing that she hid from view, the one 'ship' that she wished for more than anything. She knew that the other didn't reciprocate feelings for her, but she persisted in her daydreams nonetheless.

~~~~

The two were moirails, and they couldn't have been better for each other.

Equius was strong, strong and steady. He was a protector, and though he could come off as too strong, almost... disgusting in his ways, he loved her and wished her the best.

Nepeta was soft. She was loving, understanding and the gentlest of souls. She helped him as much as she could, and although many cringed at her fascinations, she loved him and wished him the best.

They were capable of becoming more, so much more, but the roles they held in each other's hearts and eyes was enough. It made them happy. The joy that they felt could far surpass any doubts they might have had, shatter any negativity as long as they kept close. When they were separated, they had Trollian, but it would never be enough to satisfy their need to... be with each other, to have physical closeness.

The tea had been brewed in a hopeful, happy manner, as Nepeta had thought everything was actually going to be fine, despite the encroaching gloom. Equius' comforting, warming darkness was the only one she had expected. The catlike troll was ever the optimist, however, and that would serve to help her through the next events.

"Oh no! The Purrl Grey has been on for too long! It'll taste pawful!"

She hissed, tail lashing about - as opposed to its normal gentle sway - and running to check the lilac pot with a worried expression. She couldn't believe it had been steeping so long! She was so careless. Her tail slid motionlessly across the floor, shifting only when she herself moved. She felt downcast within moments, as she had tried so hard to make everything so, so perfect for Equius in her land.

She checked for a supply of sugar in the small dwelling she had made there, as she liked her Cameowmile nice and sweet, before giggling to herself. She was going nuts, being alone, surely. She spun around, gazing at the hills and mounds of Little Cubes, her eyes bright and filled with a childlike wonder. Even though it felt like she had seen it all a million times, it never failed to amaze her time and time again.

"Silly Nepeta! Your land is made of sugar!"

Nepeta murmured to herself, walking out of her dwelling and looking around. She soon collected a basketful of sugar cubes, and bent down to the green tea river running like veins through her land. Sticking her tongue out, she looked around just in case Equius had been able to come to her land so soon. She didn't want to make a fool of herself in front of him. Happily, as she did most things, she bent over and quickly lapped at the green tea.

It was bitter, and she stuck her tongue out in disgust. She decided that she'd have to topple a whole hill worth of sugar into it later; it would give her something to do while Equius wasn't there, and it would be a lot of fun. Sweetness, as well as being sweet, really improved everything, or so she thought. She stood from the banks of the tea river, humming to herself as she licked the sticky residue of the sugar off her hands.

Skipping, she made her way back to the dwelling, humming softly. Equius would arrive at any minute, and she wanted to be there when he arrived. She was looking forward to seeing him, very much so, but also wanted to make sure that his often untameable strength didn't cause him to break the door as well. She'd worked on the small hut for a while, if only to keep her fidgety 'paws' at bay.

The troll soon arrived, beads of sweat trickling down his face relentlessly. She walked and got him a fresh white towel - those she had stocked up on for this reason alone - from the cupboard. He walked into the door of the hut, taking the towel from her. Equius almost seemed too big for the small dwelling, but Nepeta wanted it no other way. His size bought her comfort. He wiped his face gratefully, a broken-toothed smile coming to his lips.

"Thank you, Nepeta. It is good to see you."

Equius stood in the hut, looking around at the home Nepeta had made for herself. He was proud of her for doing such a thing, even though his head grazed the roof when it sloped down on occasion. Judging by her shorter-than-average size, and the fact that sugar grains crunched under their feet at every step, she had used the stackable cubes as leverage. She would have spent far more time than was necessary on the dwelling.

It made his hardened heart full with warmth and his gentle smile stay, unwavering, to know how much effort his Moirail had gone to, even if it wasn't specifically for him. She obviously had a real passion for what she was doing, and her fingers were still sticking together due to the baking she had done. She had set everything up just so, but she had been rather busy. She had only just had time to clean up a little before he came.

"Just a meowment, please, Equihiss."

Nepeta chirped, scampering off and to the little sink. She hummed some more as she washed her hands. Her short fingers saw the light for the first time in a while, as her bright blue paw-gloves nearly always obscured them from view. She had liked baking, as well as licking the bowls when she was finished, but didn't particularly enjoy washing up properly. She usually took her time with it, nonetheless, but she hurried because she wanted to get back to her blue-blooded friend.

She slipped her gloves back on, wiggling her fingers in relief. Although her skin was grey, and was already rather light in colour, her hands were noticeably more pale than the rest of her skin because of her habit of wearing them. She had dyed the tail and gloves when her moirallegiance with Equius started, wanting the blue to remind her that he was always with her, even when they were not together in person.

Soon, the troll bought the things she had baked to the small table, setting the plate of steaming hot muffins down and setting out a couple of placemats so that the teapots wouldn't scorch the table. She had left the Cameowmile to sit and cool down a little while the Purrl Grey steeped further, as Equius had told her that he liked his tea 'E%TREMELY STRONG'. She didn't want to burn her mouth, however.

It was evident that she had used too much sugar in the muffins, presumably to try and deplete the supply that was naturally given to her by the Land Of Little Cubes And Tea. She hadn't known that the supply was nearly infinite, so as to prevent sugar-based land degradation from Nepeta using it all up. She liked everything she had nearly as sweet as she was, which was copiously, overly sweet. That said, Nepeta wasn't a stuck-up, and her positivity always seemed to be genuine.

She padded over to the long-brewed tea, bringing it over to the table and setting it down after pouring a cup for Equius. She had reinforced the cup somehow so that he wouldn't crush it, and the tea was piping hot. She had even added some of Arthour's milk to it, as Equius had bought it over with him. He said it kept his bones strong, and she didn't doubt it, but she thought to herself that he didn't need any more calcium. He was already too strong for his own good, and for others'.

Nepeta cherished him and appreciated him far more than most, despite his almost debilitating strength and his sweating problems. There were a lot of negatives to Equius, but most tended to forget about him completely. She had reason to believe that he was seen in a negative light by most of the other trolls that bothered to acknowledge his existence, and considered that extremely unfair. Even Vriska seemed to dislike him, and Aradia hold the blue blood in her robotic veins against him, even though he had done them a courtesy and replaced their body or body parts.

They talked over tea and muffins, and joy radiated from the two trolls. They had never shown such happiness unless they were together, and even then Equius had been... apprehensive about his feelings for Nepeta. In this small hut in an expanse of sugar, they had found cause to believe that they truly were moirails, and that they were perfect for each other. The guardian and the helper, the stoic and the empathetic.

Equius soon left, his hands clutching a basketful of muffins, the likes of which Nepeta absolutely insisted he take. She claimed that she couldn't eat them all herself, but he knew that it was a lie, and simply an excuse to share what she had made for him. It was lighthearted, and she watched him go with a small and satisfied smile lighting up her cheeks. Nepeta knew that she had made him happy, and that, in turn, made her the most gleeful troll in the whole of Alternia.

But that had been long ago.

Almost too long.

~~~~~~~~~~~

So, they sat together in the darkened lab, stoves and long-cold teapots providing a barrier to what lay beyond. The two had sought shelter from him as soon as they could, sought one another because they knew it would be even colder without that comfort. The two would have liked to meet like this in a more positive setting, but that was not to be. The time of tea and piping-hot muffins in a land of sugar was long gone. It was likely that they'd never experience such a thing ever again as long as they were trapped.

The clown was lurking in the cloaking dark, and that was terrifying to them both, but Equius didn't move a muscle as Nepeta shivered against him. His role in the moiraillegiance was to guard her to his dying breath, and to have an unwavering resolution and stoicism in the face of danger. He would fulfil that role to the best of his ability. However strong he was, when a distant smashing of a bottle was heard, Equius' fingers tightened around the wood of the bow that he held, and a crack rang out.

"Do not worry, Nepeta."

He murmured, feeling the troll flinch against his body from where she was curled, obviously scared out of her mind. Aside from this, he hadn't felt her move in a while. He thought it had been a long time, though he had no way of knowing. Equius had thought her dead, for she had become literally petrified with fright for some time earlier. Although he hated it, it was a relief to feel her shivering form. It was movement, at least.

He had left her sore in the back from his hugs many a time, and did not want to risk such a thing happening ever again, especially due to his moirail's emotional fragility. She already suffered so much, particularly in their current situation. A broken back would likely kill Nepeta, as she had not - and would not - gain the abilities and immortality that came with the highly coveted ascension to God Tier.

"I am here, and I will not let anything happen to you for as long as I live."

Equius spoke, though he expected no reply. He knew that she was feeling far too weak to even gain the energy to do so. All he had to go on, all the signs that she lived, were her wheezing breaths, and the gentle shudder of her every limb. He himself was fighting the urge to close his eyes, to slip into the comfort of fading away. The void that he held called to him louder and louder until it was a deafening roar in his ears, though he had no voices in his head as Sollux had.

The goldblood had never interacted with him, and he found that better than if he had. Equius was a troll who had followed the hemospectrum closely for all of his sweeps of life, and had thus forbidden himself from interacting with Sollux and his lowblooded... breed. Power didn't matter to him, though he was so fixated on his own, and paid no mind to the boy's psionic prowess, nor his hacking skills.  He wasn't self-absorbed, and he cared for those who cared for him, or that he felt he could trust.

One of the few people he felt he could trust was slowly, agonisingly dying against his body. Her breathing was so shallow that it became barely noticeable, and her chest barely moved. He provided her with all the warmth that he could, but had no idea if his efforts would be enough to save her. It was safer, he decided, for him to let her... he couldn't. He couldn't even think of the word. His Nepeta, dying. It was... preposterous. But it was better for her to fade in his arms than to die fighting that horrid, maniacal clown.

Equius brushed a strand of hair away from her face, his hands finally beginning to tremble. He didn't want her to die, even more than he feared death himself. He'd been lonely for so, so long. He'd finally pushed all that away and embraced his relationship with her, and he wanted to be safe and happy. With her. His stubbornness was a big downside when it came to socialising, but he refused to let her go even now, and it was sad that they were closest when she was so far away. He'd have his revenge, sure, but wanted to stay by her side until her very last breath.

She breathed it all too soon, and for the first time in his life, he felt a tear slip down his cheek.

[cherryredblack]

Okay I promised I would post this but I kept forgetting

Here it is! My comparison of The Adventure Zone Amnesty characters and Homestuck characters (under a readmore cuz its really long lmao)!!

Duck Newton and Dave Strider-

forced into the role of a hero that they reject due to personal reasons (duck believing hes not really supposed to be the chosen and dave bc of his bros abuse and how he looked up to him as a “hero”)

also compare ducks “im just a regular dude” speech to daves “dave of guy” speech

also are heavily headcanoned as trans due to their stories seeming to be a metaphor for being trans (duck lives as a regular guy his whole life before realizing hes not a “regular” guy v daves problems with trying to live up to an impossible standard of masculinity set by his bro thats a #transthing)

honorable mention- cant lie for shit, sword

Indrid Cold and Karkat Vantas-

hide a very important part of themselves bc of fear of harm or death that would come as a result of it (mothman v mutant blood)

also have regrets that come from not being able to do anything in times of death even as they tried to stop it (point pleasant v gamzee vriska and eridan), leading them to be reclusive and only trust a few people or even nobody

honorable mention-red gay, obsession with a famous male celebrity (ryan gosling v troll will smith), alien, part insect

Aubrey Little and Rose Lalonde-

mothers death was a catalyst in powers coming to light

meets a girl and impresses her with magic (i dont have much for this sorry :pensive: )

Dani and Kanaya Maryam

meet girl with magic powers, fall in love

vampire

can pretend to be sensible but shes like >:3c inside (i also dont have much for this :thumbs_down:

ill do ships now because ned and boyds kinda go into that anyway and also neds is really complicated to write out lol

Indruck v Davekat: the story of a man who tried to save the world but failed and a man who didnt want to save the world but had to

Idk how indruck actually started out but i can imagine it was bc someone saw an interesting dynamic and ran with it

thats what happened with davekat too iirc!

it started as a crackship bc they didnt get along at first and were “fighting” over terezi

but then it got popular

and then they were friends, etc etc

Rosemary v Vampfire

one of the first actually canon relationships (rather than just crushes or flirting)

girl meets alien girl

human girl has magic??

source of magic also connected to alien girl (doc scratch v sylvain [possibly])

alien girl is also VAMPIRE lesbian alien girl

its cute and good and we need more

also theres a connection with aubrey and kanaya as well, to connect aubreys sylvan magic

important heirloom passed down from mother figure right before/after her death

heirloom is lost/destroyed

must find a way to recreate/find heirloom as a part of characters story

ok. now the complicated one. this will be messy and probably hard to understand but its coming from my head so it was gonna be anyway

Ned Chicane and Vriska Serket (also Boyd Mosche and Terezi Pyrope)

they both did nothing wrong ON PURPOSE

we’ll get into that

they both go on heists with a partner in crime (boyd v terezi)

causes harm to partner in some way (ned leaves boyd to get caught, vriska causes terezi to go blind)

partner gets their revenge later (boyd takes all of neds stuff, terezi literally stabs vriska in the back)

sees partner dead, causes them to go after villain (in vriskas case this happens before shes stabbed but a) time stuff, b) she lets it happen so terezi doesnt die)

thats all for ned and boyd, what about the rest? ok.

causes character to die/be hunted after (aradia v barclay) by their apparent counterpart (sollux v stern)

ned doesnt delete the video and agent stern comes to town v vriska is coerced into mindcontrolling sollux

BUT WAIT

ned didnt post the video

ned didnt show agent stern the video

vriska was still coerced by someone to second hand kill aradia

WHO DID IT??

kirby=doc scratch

kirby posts the video and shows it to stern in full (was it already cut down to erase barclay changing?? i dont remember)

doc scratch manipulates vriska into sending sollux to kill aradia

they both get blamed and get full responsibility pushed onto them for it evn though a) ned didnt know kirby did that and b) vriska was a child

THATS WHY NEITHER OF THEM DID ANYTHING WRONG ON PURPOSE. ITS NOT THEIR FAULTS BUT THEY STILL GET THE BLAME PUSHED ONTO THEM

also thacker=gamzee, billy=mayor, jake coolice=nobody because hes too wonderful to be compared to anyone in homestuck and also i love him, pigeon=nepeta (pete=equius?)

if you read all this ur a real one. yes i am an intellectual thank you.

[mmmmalo]

Rambling:

Realized a minute ago that the visual link between the blackened Skaia and Aranea’s dome has precedent in Vriska talking about bashing her head like an 8 ball (the very motif that leads to 8r8k H34DS, the part of the code that seems to account for Doc Scratch’s egg head).

So it makes sense that the above conversation with Terezi (which leads to Vriska’s face exploding) is echoed just after the decapitation of Spidermom, which leads to Vriska’s own head being covered in blood as though it had been busted open again, next to some 8-balls which also bleed blue.

I’m not sure what this emphasis on breaking heads tells us about what Vriska wants, though the parallel with Aranea/Jake is certainly interesting. But the idea that Vriska’s desire was in some way articulated by both her lusus and the circumstances surrounding death of her lusus opens up some interesting (and highly speculative) territory.

At the end of her conversation with Aradia, Vriska curses the “muscle8east [Equius] rode in on”, which is later echoed in Karkat cursing “the joke book [John] rode in on”. The circumstances of John’s birth (Nanna falling from a ladder) contribute to his fear of falling -- which, among other things, illustrates the fear John holds towards the collapse of an ideal, an allegory shared with Hitchcock’s Vertigo (x). Aurthor dies by falling, so between that and the shared line around birth circumstances, we can infer that Equius’s fear/desire has some relation to the fall. This is further supported by the layout of LOCAS, which contains a number of grottos into which Equius must descend in order to reach his gate -- lands stoke their players anxieties, so it’s possible that falls his land necessitates are a source of trepidation for Equius.

I would hazard a guess that this folds into Equius’s general fear/desire of degradation/submission. John believes that his earthly form is a corruption of the ideal essence from which he descended, and seeks to return to. This ties into a dichotomy of superior/inferior that corresponds with a physical high/low. At the very least, literally lowering oneself (by falling, kneeling) seems to hold similar connotations for Equius, who gets worked up over degradation and power disparities. Though strangely, the ideal that Equius aspires to (unity of man/horse) would also be that which he desires to see fall? Like he has to prop it up in order to knock it down... (Since this ideal essence is Fatherly on John’s side, I wonder if the Death of the Aurthor / Birth of the Subject is being set up as a pun, where the horse-man is a symbol fatherly au(r)thority...?) ((And incidentally, this parallel between Equius and John would also bolster the claim of horses as a symbol of spirit/Heart))

But in order for this to hold water, it would also be necessary for other lusus deaths to fold into our conceptions of their wards... so let’s give that a try for the others.

Tinkerbull was crushed by Tavros’s “four wheel device”, the same term applied to skateboards and thus Unreal Air. Both ends of the chain relate to Tavros’s established wish to fly: in the sense that a true seer lacks sight, and or the unbreakable katana is implicitly unreal, the paralysis resulting from Tavros’s fall seems to grant him “unreal air” in the form of a torso that glides over the ground. But the death of Tinkerbull would indicate that the subsequent falls from ill-fated attempts at flight are also a part of his desire...?

I still don’t know what to make of the mobius double reach-around virus, but the first peep we hear from Crabdad comes after Karkat captchalogues a captchalogue card, which then crashes through the floor and bonks the beast. There’s a sense of self-impregnation to the embedded cards, which could relate to Karkat’s self-cest kink? (Which, incidentally, also forms part of his resistance to the concept of having ‘ancestors’)

I don’t know what to make of Terezi’s dragon lusus hatching and then immediately dying via meteor. In the abstract sense, it could be read as an injustice, the death of an innocent? In which case it would follow that Terezi’s desire for justice is tempered by a desire for injustice?? Which would offer an amusing rationale for her framing of Lemonsnout and her increasingly nonsensical trial against Vriska, or her murdering John despite knowing no comeuppance would come of it in the Alpha timeline...? But this leans too heavily on a choice of word... the visual symbol of justices is the scale (and by extension the dragon itself...?) so a proper reading would need to account for that, while also integrating Terezi’s apparent desire to embody justice that came with turning her own gaze into that of the all-seeing red sun?

Sollux’s lusus died in an ejaculatory explosion of light, which is also the way Sollux lost his sight in the duel with Eridan? So.... wish granted, maybe. Worth noting here’s that ‘Sol-lux Captor’ can be read as ‘Captor of Sun-Light’

Kanaya’s moth-mom died of natural causes, but Kanaya following this by cutting the Matriorb/Egg-Sun out of mom’s gullet certainly reiterates both the moth-interest in sunlight and Kanaya’s personal investment in motherhood....

Nepeta has an intrusive future-thought of Pounce dying in a cave-in, which is followed by Karkat manifesting for her, talking about breaking blocks.... a lot of the above mentions have a motif of falling, or failing, perhaps related to Homestuck’s fixation on bad/failed creations. Desire for such failure brings in the concept of Freud’s death drive, a theoretical precedent  for discussing self-destructive desire. Viewing the Nepeta’s bloody cave as a womb-symbol, and cat/Karkitty as child-symbol, her scenario seems to involve a failed birth, as is more explicit in Terezi’s case. Under the general idea that a troll’s demise will also articulate their death-wish, we can view Nepeta’s death at the hands of Gamzee as an esoteric extension of this -- possibly in line with viewing her exit from the vent as a symbolic ejaculation (x), upon which the fetus gets crushed...? But what annoys me here as elsewhere is that I have no clue how to integrate this desire into Nepeta’s general pattern of behavior... I suppose... in the conversation with Karkat, she specifically builds the bricks into a house and invites Karkat inside, a gesture within which Karkat functions as both father and child by putting himself in Nepeta’s proxy ‘cave’. Within the general pattern of fear > fetish turns that are abundant in Homestuck, you might gather that Nepeta gets some sort of morbid enjoyment from the prospect of failed pregnancy...? I’m kind of fumbling about here, but this is somewhat important. Nepeta appears with Karkat in Roxy’s dream, so if this account of Nepeta’s psyche were to hold, it would indicate that Roxy similar gleams some sort of dread/enjoyment from the prospect of iced cats.

I don’t know what to make of remaining 4 trolls: I’m not certain we ever see exactly how the lusii of the 3 highest blooded trolls die? And though Aradia’s lusus seems to die in the same attack that killed Aradia, I don’t know how to tie that into her story in general.

[vriska]

the thing with time in hoemstuck though is that if they failed to create lord english they wouldve been fucked anyways as a doomed timeline just. vanishes into oblivion, in a dramatic fashion? theya rent very specific about exactly how it works. it's a catch-22. gamzee basically had to be a piece of shit to keep the universe running. note that Rage is resignation, pessimism, and determinism- idk man gamzee's story and actions are all fucked up. this isnt gamzee apologism its literary analysis

yeah but if you use that argument then at what point do any of the characters become accountable for their actions? 

If everything had to happen exactly as it did, then what free will did any of the characters have? does that mean it was okay for Gamzee to murder Equius and Nepeta and decapitate all the dead bodies?  does that mean it’s okay that Vriska murdered Aradia and crippled Tavros and blinded Terezi, all because it HAD to happen according to Doc Scratch?

It doesn’t work as an argument because part of it is bullshit, Doc Scratch set up these events and made them seem like they were the only options, their only choices for a favorable outcome in the timeline, as seen in the fact that Gamzee’s Rage blinded Terezi’s Seer powers until she saw NO outcome except that she HAD to kill Vriska or the timeline was doomed, but as we see later in the retcon, that was false

[sgrubsauce]

My Thoughts on the New “Canon” Aspect Quiz (+ moons!)

Well, this can’t wait.

I've taken the quiz, read the canon aspect descriptions and the descriptions of what the aspects of the Hiveswap characters are, as well as the descriptions of the moons. Thoughts below the cut:

(TL;DR:  Contains some useful tidbits, but excessively facile and generally underwhelming and inadequate--but also not canon, so we can just ignore it as suits our needs)

ON THE ASPECTS:

The biggest thing about the aspects is that most of them have approximately one line of any value, and the rest is zodiac-like in that it’s basically rainbow reading--that is to say, every single aspect has such a wide list of personalities and traits listed that they will apply to everyone.  There is, however, usually a key description of the aspect in the middle--stuff like confirming Rage as a denier of lies and a bringer of harsh truths.  It also confirms the concept of aspects as opposites matching the standard pattern, and I would like to take this opportunity to politely tell everyone against this theory to suck it.

In terms of the actual aspects, the one thing we got (and it’s a big thing!) is an actual reasonable description of what Doom means and how it forms a dichotomy with life.  It’s all terribly vague and buried in wishy-washy nonsense, but the gist of it seems to be that Doom players suffer and need to learn to empathize, while Life players empathize and need to learn to suffer.  I’m not sure this exactly fits Sollux’s arc, and less sure that it fits Mituna’s (although Heirs don’t start with their aspect so it kinda works), but it’s more than possible that I’m misreading this.  My biggest takeaway from this is twofold:

Firstly, that most if not all Doom players are on the Wounded Angel arc in Chuubo’s.

Secondly, that the Buddha is the archetypal Life player.

I’m really not sure how to feel about those things.

Unfortunately, most of the other aspects are a wash.  Describing Time as goal-oriented is fair, if not the first thing I would say, and the description of Hope vs. Rage seems a little over-simplified but good enough for people with no prior background, but then they go and describe Light as knowledge.  While this may seem correct at first blush, I’ve previously ranted about how all evidence in the story points towards Light as meaning stories instead.  I can accept that Hussie wanted Light to mean knowledge, but his own work contradicts him here.  The fact that they posted this makes me doubt the value of the other posts.

ON THE MOONS:

The lunar aspects share a lot of traits with the aspects, in that the descriptions are so broadly applicable as to basically be meaningless.  Once again, there is a single line of valuable information to be gleaned from this, and that is the perceived decider between Prospit and Derse dreamers--Prospit dreamers accept authority, while Derse dreamers rebel against it.  Like the aspects, this makes sense on first blush.  However, there are some issues.  You could easily say that Vriska and Tavros both respect authority, but to say Equius rejects it (as he should, as a Derse dreamer) is patently absurd.  That might not be the best example, as Void players are free from stories about them and can make their own path, so they might not be as affected by their lunar alignment--but what about the other Dersite trolls?  Nepeta shows no signs of wanting to fight the establishment or rebel in any particular way, Eridan wants to strengthen the status quo, and Feferi’s arc is in many ways about her having to learn to rebel because following the status quo is her first instinct!  In short, this theory’s falling apart in a number of ways, and the nail in the coffin is that any theory that fails to explain why Sollux and Mituna, and only Sollux and Mituna, are residents of both moons falls apart--and this one doesn’t even try.

ON XEFROS BEING A RAGE PLAYER:

According to the signs shown, Xefros is destined to be a Rage player.  A lot of people seem to view this as unexpected, but in truth he could be viewed as a Page or Knight of Rage rather easily.  He’s been led by Dammek to believe that Rage is constant anger against “the man”, when in reality it’s tearing about any lies, even comforting ones like the rebellious structure Dammek’s set up.  I don’t really have much to say about this, given how little we really know about Xefros; a lot of his characterization really hinges on how plausible the revolution is.

ON THE QUIZ ITSELF:

It has 8 questions for the moons and 12 for the aspects.  Each of the moon questions has 5 answers on a linear scale between the moons, and each of the aspect questions is a linear scale between the two extremes of two opposite aspects.  If there are ties, it resolves them in a fixed way rather than considering influence of other questions.  In addition, some of the questions are based solely on surface-level traits of an aspect instead of the actual personality traits (”would you rather travel through time or through space”--really?  I expected this from an amateurish fan, not from you).  It has set before itself a monstrous undertaking, and then proceeded by falling flat on its face.  If you were to design a classpect quiz (for I firmly believe that different classes have such different relations to their aspect that it would be impossible to properly determine one without the other), it would need to start with wide-ranging questions, then narrow down between similar ties as you went; it should ideally adjust itself on the fly to tease out nuances; and it would need to perform meta-analysis of the answers to notice overall trends in behavior.  Even then, it might not always be correct.  I may have been somewhat considering making such a quiz for myself with all of those features, but I lack the background in psychology which would be necessary to properly write the questions.  So, to see this quiz which barely even tries, from WhatPumpkin and Hussie himself, borders on insulting.

“BUT WAIT!  SURELY IF THIS CONTRADICTS YOUR THEORIES, THAT MEANS YOUR THEORIES ARE WRONG?”

I’m glad you asked such a leading question, imaginary Karkat!  As it turns out, the author does not have sole ownership of the work, and their interpretation is not inherently more correct than anyone else’s.  This is a principle known as death of the author, and while it may be considered something of a stretch, I firmly believe such a principle applies here, as the quiz is non-canonical.  This may seem absurd at first blush, but there is a clear reason why:

These two trolls are the canon fantrolls, Mierfa Durgas and Nektan Whelan.  They are the results of a pair of $10,000 donations to Hussie’s Kickstarter, which offered to make a fantroll canon.  As such, any excuses you might make--for instance, that Caliope was imagining the signs as hypotheticals--cannot be used; these two characters are definitionally canon.  However, their signs are not included in the expanded zodiac; and as such, because it contradicts known canon information, it therefore is not canon and cannot be treated as such.  It can tell us a lot about what Hussie thinks the aspects mean, but not a word of proof as to their actual meaning.

[caligvlasaqvarivm]

So we know that Equius is casteist, but redeemable as his moirallagiance with Nepeta seems to be working pretty fine (I think). But what about Horuss? He seems pretty full of being a blue blood and an a-hole, so do you think is redeemable?

the dancestors aren't really meant to be "redeemable" in the same way as the b2 trolls, since their role in the story is actually pretty antagonistic and meant to highlight what it means to fail to grow up, mature, and become a kind and empathetic person. the story as a whole is a coming of age, and the dancestors represent both children who reached the "finish line" (physical adulthood) while failing to mature as people, and as the older generation that failed their kids, forcing their children to reckon with the problems they created (including, literally, inviting LE into their universe, which caused the shithole alternian society they were forced to grow up in.)

as such there are two different answers here to give, the one for horuss as a person and the one for horuss as a thematic device, the latter of which the comic seems more interested in utilizing him as. For the former, yes, he can be redeemed; he clearly has hidden depths like the other dancestors and is doing things that actively impede his ability to get into touch with them. honestly kankri is a bigger problem for his team.

but as a thematic device, i don't think the path laid out for the dancestors is redemption so much as it is refutation; they're set up for the b2 trolls to meet, initially feel intimidated and made insecure by, to influence the b2 trolls into making poor decisions and focus on the wrong things... and then for the b2 trolls, as they complete character development, to take a stand against. and personally, i like the idea that at the end of that refutation, of being taken to task for all their failures by their descendents, who decide that they will be better than the generation that came before them, the dancestors finally band together and willingly fight LE, which is, i guess, a form of redemption? it's too little too late, but it'd be a good way to show that the b2 trolls taking personal responsibility for making the world a better place can have a knock-on effect on the people that caused their problems in the first place, lmao.