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#the eleventh metal
butwhybother · 1 year
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Kelsier thinks about Dockson a lot. He probably thinks about Dockson more often than any member of his crew.
Kelsier Misses Dox in The Eleventh Metal:
'Lord Ruler, I miss Dox and the crew.'
Kelsier thinks about Dockson's habit:
"brawling had been an old habit of Dockson's."
Kelsier thinks about Dockson after punching a god in Secret History:
"It was a good, clean punch, thrown from the shoulder while he brought his other arm to block a counterstrike. Dox would be proud."
Kelsier would rather have Dockson than a god on his team:
"And as you can see, my options are limited. I'd rather have Dox, but he's got to go deal with the man who is claiming to be you."
Kelsier misses his people:
"Kelsier watched for--craved--signs of the people he knew and loved. .... He hungered for these glimpses of his friends."
Kelsier is disappointed at Dockson:
"It seemed that even Dox was listening to Venture. Kelsier had expected Breeze to ride whatever wind came his way, but Dockson?"
Kelsier hears of Dockson's passing:
"Dox. I wasn't here for him. I could have seen him again, as he passed. Talked to him. Saved him maybe?"
Kelsier thinks of Dockson while doing a spooky trick:
"Dox would have had a fit of laughter seeing this, Kelsier thought."
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portuguesedisaster · 4 months
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Oh, look it's our favourite mess in the form of a person!
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cosmererambles · 1 year
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Rust and Ruin, this poor man.
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tbookblurbs · 4 months
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The Eleventh Metal - Brandon Sanderson
4/5 - Kelsier backstory! feels a little unfinished (read in The Arcanum Unbound: The Cosmere Collection)
I really enjoyed seeing Gemmel, who's only mentioned in passing in the first Mistborn trilogy, and on the whole, seeing Kelsier's training exercises made me a little sad for him? He's never really known softness or gentleness or a reasonable mentor who will express pride over his growth and success, which definitely plays into why he is the way he is in "Secret History" (more on that later). But Kelsier's training also throws into sharp relief the way he treats Vin as an apprentice. He's a little insane, yeah, but he also views her as a daughter and clearly tries to keep her safe. It's so different from the way he was introduced to his Allomantic abilities.
That said, this feels a little bit like a writing project that had to be within a certain page limit. Things that could have been expanded on seem to have been cut, and so the overall impression is that of an assignment for a creative writing class or exercise that's designed to get you in a character's headspace. This isn't a bad thing, necessarily, but it does mean the project feels a little limited.
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cikebabbler · 7 months
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"I'm here to teach you how to fight. Not how to talk. You already do that."
gemmel immediately making me laugh and cry at the same time
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marvelousmagicalaura · 7 months
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Ruin has future sight
DISCLAIMER] Cosmere works I’ve read: Mistborn trilogy, Elantris, The Emperor’s Soul
I think assuming Ruin never used future sight is the weirdest opinion I’ve seen from Mistborn fans. At least, among opinions about the magic system. I understand that Preservation has better future sight (that’s a whole other rant), but Ruin is a Shard. He fuels the metal that grants this power, and has vastly superior makeup and senses to mortals. We’ve seen the vast gap between Allomantic abilities and Ruin’s abilities.
Ruin obviously uses future sight. An atium bead, a fraction of his power, is an unstoppable precognitive ability that was only stopped by other atium or electrum burners, and Vin - the very unique Child of Preservation. Atium burned with Elend’s caliber of Allomantic duralumin creates a vision of the future.
These beads are alloyed with electrum, so they would grant smaller peeks into the future than pure atium. And pure atium should be far inferior to Ruin’s future sight.
We’ve also seen multiple parts of Ruin’s plans that indicate he can see into the future
1) Vin’s mother babbled to Vin that she’s a queen, or will be a queen. Vin’s mother was whispered to by Ruin, and we’ve never seen this type of speech from Ruin’s other pawns. This is a sign that he saw at least 10 years into the future.
2) The Eleventh Metal. Ruin influenced and directed Gemmel and Shezler in ways that caused Kelsier to begin his obsession with malatium. Ruin fabricates, stories, legends, and prophecies about malatium in the North and West, and did it to subtly that no one else in Scadrial knew about it. Interestingly, the Lord Ruler knew about malatium two centuries before his death. It’s possible Ruin’s malatium scheme, and thus his precognitive plan, was in the work for 200 years.
3) As for the Terris Prophecies he manipulated them and the copperminds so subtly, and for so long, that the Terris believed his alterations were legitimate parts of the religion. I highly doubt all his alterations were done on the spot.
4) Ruin was sending his forces against Elend’s forces specifically to press Elend and Vin into finding the storage caverns, creating a situation where he wins whether or not they find the caverns.
5) According to HoA chapter 79’s epigraph, one of the reasons Ruin gave Vin a Hemalurgic spike was to prevent the mists from Investing themselves into her.
He’s not going to have future sight inferior to Elend. I believe it’s much more likely that Ruin saw Elend’s vision of the future, but saw it as a slim possibility among the millions, trillions, infinite number of possibilities that Ruin himself saw.
I also think that Sanderson just wasn’t experienced at writing tension, gods, or future sight. I’ve heard all of these are found in The Stormlight Archive, so hopefully it’s written better there. And I think once Mistborn gets an adaptation, we’ll see Ruin truly use his precognitive abilities and be more successful throughout Scadrial’s history.
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Some costume designs for each arc.
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zagreuses-art · 4 months
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Some watercolor marker TAZ bookmarks I made a long while ago. I realized I never posted them on here.
[ID: first image, six bookmarks featuring illustrations of the six TAZ balance arcs: here there be gerblins, murder on the Rockport limited, petals to the metal, crystal kingdom, eleventh hour, and the suffering game. The following images are closeups of the bookmarks. Second image, horizontal, showing taako from the back, jumping away from the back of the train and holding a box containing a glowing gold monocle. Third image, a shadowy hand reaching for the Phoenix gauntlet , which is wreathed in flames. Fourth image, Sloane as the raven shrouded in a column of vines and a storm, wearing the Gaia sash, looking up at her is Hurley in her Ram outfit surrounded by pink flowers . The fifth image, a robot is hanging suspended in a pink crystal, it has the transmutation stone in its hands, behind it is a portal to the astral plane full of ghostly silhouettes and glowing orbs. The sixth image shows Roswell the elemental (a suit of armour filled with mud with a red bird on their shoulder) underneath an arch that says refuge, above the arch the shoulders and arms of June are visible, holding the glowing and floating temporal chalice. The seventh image shows the black and white big top tent of the game, a crisscrossed colorful background, the arms of Edward and Lydia crossing over each other to cup around the Animus Bell, behind their hands is a red robe with glowing eyes. End ID]
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yaknow-fromtv · 2 years
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glamour springs residents be like
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jonorbattleship · 1 year
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#eleventh #haul of #tunes for #2023 (3/18/23) #listening courtesy of my @applemusic #feed #scrobble #lastfm #music #streaming #scrobbler #streamedmusic #tunes #localbands #supportlocalmusic #jazz #rock #metal #shred #indie #hiphop #electronic #fusion #lastweek #traxscrobbler #March #trax #numetal #songs #MarchMadness #bangers https://www.instagram.com/p/CqB-EfLNeo0/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=
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butwhybother · 1 year
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Kelsier sees a building that looks like it's covered in mud:
"Keep Shezler was constructed in the usual architectural style typical of the Western Dominance far from Luthadel. Instead of blocks and peaks, it had an almost organic feel, with four tapering towers up front. He thought that buildings out here must be constructed of stone frames with a kind of hardened mud outside, sculpted and shaped to make all those curves and knobs."
- The Eleventh Metal, emphasis added.
Oh Kelsier, you really need to see what people do with crem on that other planet.
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shitboy96 · 1 year
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Really enjoying my taz balance relisten after 4 years. My commute is an hour each way every day so I have just blasted through it over the last month or so. I’m coming to the end of the suffering game arc and I’m just constantly amazed at griffin’s writing and storytelling. And also the music!
Maybe this time I’ll actually persevere through amnesty and listen to the other ones too!
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cosmererambles · 6 months
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Kelsier and Anti-Social Personality Disorder: An Essay
Thank you sooo much for editing this @ladyartichokie! You were a massive help!
Kelsier Essay
I hope the dear reader will forgive my use of a proper noun as I write this essay; it removes somewhat of a formal aspect from its words but I must admit, it does come from a personal place of my heart. While this essay is meant to be persuasive, it’s also meant to be constructive and to drive a point home that I have been musing on for quite a while. This essay has major spoilers for the entirety of the Cosmere. If you haven’t read up to SP3, please refrain from reading this.
In the endless expanses of the Cosmere, there are hundreds of characters whom many hold dear and just as many whom people hate. You could say this is due to the brilliance of the author, who, despite his busy schedules and near constant time spent behind a keyboard, finds time to sign sheets and answer questions. Why is signing sheets and answering questions relevant to beloved and reviled characters? Read on.
Brandon Sanderson answers hundreds of questions, many of whom are inane, innocuous, or silly. Some are deeper, others delve into the basis behind some of his choices while writing. Still others pertain to characters. We get to the meat of it. This particular character is known, through the writing, as a brutal man, who let nothing stand in the way of his goal, who, while cleaving the noble class of his society in twain, uplifted the peasants and upended the thousand-year reign of his deity and ruler. Yes, we’re talking of Kelsier, the Survivor of Hathsin, hero of the Final Empire, and a character that leaves many people puzzled.
Reddit forums are frequented by questions about him. r/Mistborn and r/Cosmere alike have had their fair share of debates, and there was one thing I noticed in many of these: they take the words of Sanderson very, very seriously. Why shouldn’t they? He’s the author, is he not? Back in 2013, Sanderson had a Q&A session where someone asked him who his most disturbing character was. The WoB is as follows:
I_are_pant
1.Which of your protagonist characters do you dislike the most as a person? Taking in account that you know all of their inner secrets and motivations. 2. On the flip side, which of your antagonists do you connect with the most? The Lord Ruler seems an obvious choice as he was misunderstood by everyone for so long. But still, I’m curious.
Brandon Sanderson  This is a tough one, as while I’m writing, I HAVE to like everyone. However, the most disturbing of them is probably Kelsier. He’s a psychopath—meaning the actual, technical term. Lack of empathy, egotism, lack of fear. If his life had gone differently, he could have been a very, very evil dude.
 This Word of Brandon has had a decided effect on the fandom, namely in the fact that critical thought surrounding Kelsier, his motives, his struggles, and his successes, has all but been erased. He has been branded a psychopath, and there is nothing anyone can say against it.
The word “psychopath” is a very negatively charged word. To preface things, I want to be clear that this essay is going to refer to “psychopathy” as Antisocial-Personality Disorder. The term psychopath is very old, and largely refers to individuals with this particular disorder. The traditional definition of psychopath is someone who both lacks a conscience and lacks empathy.
Through this essay, I plan to painstakingly showcase that Kelsier fits neither the outdated term nor the criteria for the actual disorder, through canon book citations. I will break down each diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (Henceforth shortened to ASPD) and Kelsier’s character traits at large. I wish to not only prove Brandon wrong (It is a very old WoB and I doubt very much he still believes this.) but to prove to the fandom at large that Kelsier is a good man. A flawed man, but a good man. I will also note specific character traits that I feel are of note in discussing him, his motives, and his current ideologies.
(Please note that there are plenty of individuals with ASPD that are not bad people. Your actions make you bad, not your mental health. I will be using terms such as “bad” and “wrong”, but this is in regards to a fictional character, NOT a real life human being.)
Antisocial Personality Disorder is a disorder characterized by the DSM-V as a Cluster-B personality disorder. It shares its family with Narcissistic, Borderline, and Histrionic disorders, and is characterized by a “continuing disregard and violation of the rights of others, occurring since the age of fifteen. To be diagnosed with ASPD, you must show a pattern of three or more of the following characteristics:
·         Failure to Conform with Laws and Social Norms
·         Deceitfulness (Repeated lying or conning of others for personal profit or pleasure.
·         Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
·         Irritability or Aggressiveness (Repeated physical fights or assaults.)
·         Reckless disregard for the safety of others.
·         Consistent irresponsibility. (Failure to keep a job or honor financial obligations.
·         Lack of remorse.
Psychopathy is a term that was coined before this disorder was identified and refers specifically to a person lacking in both empathy and a conscience. The term is still widely used today, along with the term Sociopath, often interchangeably. For this essay, I’ll be largely relying on the psychiatric standards set in the DSM-V.
With this in mind, let’s jump into the criteria necessary for one (In this case, Kelsier) to be diagnosed with ASPD. While Kelsier waits in the waiting room, rather annoyed, let’s overview his case file. I will be pulling The Final Empire (TFE), Secret History (SH), and Eleventh Metal (EM). To make things clearer, I am using the Arcanum Unbounded version of SH and EM.
Failing to Conform with Laws and Social Norms
“Yes, he pocketed the gemstones in the vault, but that was more out of pragmatism than anything else.” (SH)
“Individual must show a pattern of Failing to conform with laws and social norms.” This one is tricky, as we are speaking of a fictional character in a brutal society hell bent on slaughtering those like Kelsier. Him becoming a thief was his way of surviving. While a thief, he was known as trusting, fair, just, and great to work with. When speaking to Vin after saving her from Camon’s beating, he explains just what sort of thief and crew leader he is, which puzzles her for quite a few pages as she notices the level of trust he places in other people.
“…Well Dox and I, we’re scavengers too, we’re just a higher quality scavenger. We’re more well bred, you might say-or perhaps just more ambitious.” (Chapter 3, page 56, TFE). After Clubs leaves in a huff, Yeden exclaims that he has to be dealt with, and Kelsier shuts him down.
“You’re just going to let him go?” “…I don’t work that way, Yeden. I invited Clubs where I outlined a dangerous plan-one some people might even call stupid. I’m not going to have him assassinated because he decided it was too dangerous. If you do things like that, pretty soon nobody will come listen to your plans in the first place.” (chapter 4, page 80, TFE).
Clubs, upon his return, remarks he’s heard that Kelsier would never use emotional allomancy to sway someone to his side. “You’re a smoker Clubs. He couldn’t do much to you, not if you didn’t want him too.” “I don’t like Soothers…Men like that…well you can’t trust you aren’t being manipulated when they are around. Copper or no copper.” “I wouldn’t rely on something like that to get your loyalty.” “So I’ve heard.” (Chapter 5, page 87, TFE).
If we mark his thieving and conning as a pattern in this trope, we also have to mark it against Doxson, Hammond, Breeze, Vin, and Clubs, not to mention hundreds of other Skaa and half-skaa that are just trying to live. Thus, this particular criterion is being ignored due to the outstanding circumstances of the Final Empire and how it was run.
Deceitfulness for Profit or Pleasure
“And the third…well, that was Kelsier’s favorite. It involved a tongue coated with zinc. Instead of a knife it used confusion, and instead of prowling it worked in the open.” (SH)
As a con-artist and thief, Kelsier throughly enjoys his trade. He made it a mission in life to con his way to the top of the thieving world, becoming the most “Infamous crewleader in Luthadel” (Chapter 5, page 89, TFE). He loved terrifying the Ire out of their possessions and the orb of Investiture. The man enjoys his profession in life; he didn’t fall into it out of necessity or trick. He even states, in narration of his own in the Eleventh Metal, that when he Snapped as a Mistborn, he immediately gravitated towards Zinc and Brass, as they could “manipulate other people’s emotions.” (Eleventh Metal, page 159). “We’re thieves, gentlemen- and we’re extraordinarily good ones. We can rob the unrobbable and fool the unfoolable…” (Chapter 4, page 75, TFE). That being said, he doesn’t lie to his crewmembers. (Ghostblood’s are a bit different, and I’ll get to that later.) He is upfront and honest with his crew members, never expecting them to go into something without all the information. He has never used emotional allomancy to manipulate his friends. “Despite what Breeze says, it’s bad manners to use emotional Allomancy on your friends.” (Chapter 11, page 212, TFE).
His dealings with the Ghostbloods get a little trickier. I do not think lying to them about having powers has anything to do with profit or pleasure, more, it has to do with his position and what he is. A little mystery aids his position, and I’m sure those closest to him know quite well he lacks powers. 
To sum it up, Kelsier does meet this criterion. He enjoys the con, lives for it.
Impulsivity with a Failure to Plan Ahead
“Oh hell,” Kelsier said. “There’s actually a God?”“Yes.”Kelsier decked him. (SH) Impulsiveness, in regards to ASPD, is described as someone who is not only impulsive, but also fails to plan ahead. To quote the exact text. “Impulsivity with a failure to plan ahead.” They lack any way of preparing for large tasks or what they are going to do in the future. In regards to Kelsier, he can certainly be impulsive. Heat of the moment decisions is one of his major strengths, along with one of his major flaws. He’s fond of brash decisions against those he deems slighted him or others (Punching Leras/Ruin in Secret History.) He will jump headlong into danger in order to save those in helpless situations. (Running to save the army, only to be stopped by Vin.) His foray into Kredik Shaw could be called impulsive, though I read it as him believing that since he didn’t plan at all, there was no way he could be betrayed, as had happened last time. Him taking Vin was certainly a foolish choice, though I wouldn’t call it impulsive.
Speaking of his impulsiveness, other characters are aware of it as well. Vin, inspecting the crates that will be shipped to the caves, says that “Even the new, more responsible Kelsier was an impulsive man.” upon learning he planned to go to the caves with Yeden to inspect the army. (Chapter 20, page 331, TFE).
His slaughter of the noblemen and women in the town of Longsfellow after they murdered a young girl could be seen as impulsive. He did it without regard for their plan,  which angered Mare.
That being said, Kelsier does not fit this criteria, despite being an impulsive man, as he does not fail to plan ahead. All of Kelsier’s life as a thief was nothing but planning; job after job, all planned out and discussed with his friends/crewmates.
“It was an unfamiliar experience for him. [faltering/indecision] He’d always had a plan, before. Plans upon plans…” (Eleventh Metal, page 152).
“…all those plans, all of those heists, all of his grand visions.” (Eleventh Metal, page 164).
Beginning in Eleventh Metal, Kelsier forms his plan that we see enacted in The Final Empire. Specifically, this line. “Nobody fights, he thought, Nobody thinks they can fight. But they’re wrong. We can fight…I can fight.” (Eleventh Metal, page 165). “A plan began to bud, a plan he barely dared consider for its audacity. Vengeance. And more.” (Eleventh Metal, Page 169).
This plan carries us into the main narrative of The Final Empire. Every major event, barring a few hiccups, is fully orchestrated by Kelsier. He planned for the House War, long before he sat down with his friends and discussed it in Club’s Shop. The beginnings of it were at Trestings Plantation, where he “stirred up a little trouble.” (Prologue, page 12, TFE).
His death, at the end of the novel, was part of a plan; hidden deep under other sets of plans, a hidden leaf of paper among many: A plan to get the Skaa to rise up.
I doubt I need to fully list all of Kelsier’s planning and plotting throughout the books; it’s extensive and would fill several sheets of paper. While we can all agree that Kelsier is an impulsive man, I believe a suitable picture has been drawn up that proves that he doesn’t fit this particular criteria.
Irritability or Aggressiveness
“He’d been in street brawls before, but not many. He’d tried to avoid them-brawling had been an old habit of Dockson’s. For once, he wished he’d been less refined in that particular area.”
Kelsier’s anger throughout the first novel, and indeed Eleventh Metal, is mostly internal. In Eleventh Metal, he doesn’t lash out at Gemmel, despite the man deserving it. He instead focuses that anger on other, more deserving targets. Through most of the novel, he’s rather numb, incapable of any emotion, until he finds the Skaa, hanging up and nearly flayed from the experiments at Shezler’s hands. He murders Shezler brutally with a shard of glass punched to the throat. (Eleventh Metal, page 167). His actions with Hoid in the Well of Ascension could certainly be touted as aggressive, however I disagree with this line of thinking, for reasons I’ll outline in greater detail later in the essay. (Part 2, Chapter 1, page 231, SH)
“Kelsier kept smiling. He’d do so until it felt natural. Until that numbness, tied in a knot within him, started to unravel and he began to feel again. If that was possible.” (Eleventh Metal, page 149).
“…the only thing he could feel these days was rage, and that rage couldn’t guide him.”
Irritability generally means lashing out at those around you. Kelsier doesn’t do that. He gets his angriest towards “friends” in the caves, when manipulating Bilg to speak of his doubts. Diction is very important here. Kelsier wanted Bilg to die for speaking against him. (Something that was, unfortunately, very common in military groups in prior eras (of Earth). It was labeled as treason, and execution was the usual punishment.) “Kelsier paused. This man should die, he thought angrily. On the ground, Bilg groaned quiestly. Kelsier could just barely see his twisted arm, its bone shattered by the powerful strike. It was bleeding.   No, Kelsier thought. This is enough.” (Chapter 21, Page 351, TFE).
Note that, despite his anger and irritation, he changes his mind quickly. The heat of the moment, the trauma of being back in caverns similar to the ones he was tortured in, the looming threat of their deaths drawing ever closer, got the better of him, and he stoppered it.
Despite Vin disobeying him many, many times, following him, and contradicting him, Kelsier never snaps at her. When he catches her following him to Kredik Shaw, he sits down and speaks to her. Yet more evidence is seen in his speaking with his brother. Marsh gets angry; Marsh snaps; We can’t deny him this. Yet Kelsier, despite his inner monologue saying that Marsh is the only one that can get under his skin, keeps his relative cool.
““Oh?” Marsh asked, tapping the word atium on the board. “Why the games, Kelsier? Why lead Yeden along, pretending to accept him as your ‘employer’? Why act like you care about the skaa? We both know what you’re really after.”             Kelsier clenched his jaw, a bit of his humor melting away. He always could do that to me.””(Chapter 7, Page 130, TFE).
During Secret History, though technically before the events of Eleventh Metal and The Final Empire, Kelsier kills seven people in retribution for murdering a girl for spilling tea. He remembers this as he wanders into the town of Longsfollow. You could definitely argue aggression in this case. (Part 4, Chapter 2, page 282, SH).
Kelsier does not fit this criteria. Random acts of aggression spaced throughout a lifetime of traumatic events and death at every corner are to be expected, and throughout it all, he’s a wonderful man to those around him; supportive, charitable, and loyal.
Reckless Disregard for the Safety of Others
“The best practice is doing.” Vin said. “My brother trained me to steal by taking me on burglaries.” Kelsier shook his head. “It’s too dangerous.”
Kelsier is shown to care, deeply, for the safety of those surrounding him. We don’t see much of it in Eleventh Metal, but we can assume, based on him helping the Skaa get out of the city at the end of the novella, that he cared for their safety.
In TFE, he is constantly aware of not only his crew’s safety, but his army’s as well. They walk a very fine line; one that, if broken, would result in their immediate deaths. Multiple lines of safeguards and protections, of smoke and mirrors, goes into making sure there is no chance of betrayal or accidental mis-step. 
“...Renoux nodded. Ostensibly we’re sending this all via canal barges to my plantation in the west. However, the barges will stop to drop off supplies–and many of the canalmen–at the rebellion caverns. The barges and a few men will continue on to keep upon appearances.” “Our soldiers don’t even know that Renoux is in on the plan,” Kelsier said, smiling. “They think he’s a nobleman that I’m scamming.” (Chapter 20, page 329, TFE)
The security of his troops, and indeed, all of their heads as well, was paramount. The three guards at the entrances at all times, were stationed to keep everyone in that cavern safe from potential betrayal. After they find Marsh “dead”, Kelsier sends the entire crew to the bolt lair before leaving for the Pits of Hathsin. He also tells them to send for Renoux, to tell him to pull out. This happened after a night of thought; it wasn’t an impulsive act.
Upon the attack on Vin’s former crew…
“Should we move our base?” Ham asked. Kelsier slowly shook his head. “When Clubs came to this lair, he would have worn a disguise to and from the meeting, hiding his limp…We should still be safe. (Abridged, Page 208, 11)
Upon finding Vin tailing him as he observed Camon’s hanging…
“What are you doing here?” “I wanted to see what you were doing!” “This could have been dangerous! What were you thinking?” (Abridged, 211, chapter 11)
Upon Kelsier catching Vin tailing him, beginning a back and forth about Kredick Shaw, and Vin deciding she’ll tail him regardless of what he says, Kelsier reads her thoughts. “I’m serious, Vin! You can’t go with me.” “Why not?” she asked, abandoning pretense. “If what you’re doing is so dangerous, wouldn’t it be safer if you had another Mistborn watching your back?” “You still don’t know all of the metals,” Kelsier said. “Only because you haven’t taught me.” “You need more practice.” “The best practice is doing.” Vin said. “My brother trained me to steal by taking me on burglaries.” Kelsier shook his head. “It’s too dangerous.” (page 241, 13)
Upon Vin awakening from her coma the second time…
“Vin,” Kelsier said hesitantly. “I owe you an apology. I nearly got you killed.” Vin snorted quietly. “It’s not your fault. I made you take me.” “You shouldn’t have been able to make me,” Kelsier said. “My original decision to send you away was the right one. Please accept the apology.” (Page 268, Chapter 16, TFE).
“I don’t want to be responsible for something happening to you, Vin. Not again.” (page 287, Chapter 17, TFE).
  Are there instances where he disregards the safety of others? He doesn’t care for noblemen. He certainly doesn’t care much for the Ire, though they were trying to forcibly take his God. Many people may argue he doesn’t care for those on Roshar, but this has never been explicitly mentioned in the novels; we hear from players that are literal lightyears away from Kelsier, operating under his orders but without his oversight: they can bend rules and hurt people without being chastised.
 Kelsier does not fit this criteria, as the above examples clearly illustrate he cares deeply for the safety of those under his wing.
Consistent Irresponsibility (Inability to hold a job, etc)
“A successful crewleader needs to know how to divide labor, especially on a job as big as this one.”
Throughout the novels, Kelsier has shown consistent responsibility. Before the novels take place, we know he led a successful crew of thieves to the point of massive wealth and infamy. After the Pits, he takes the downfall of the Final Empire under his wing, organizing and spearheading the entire operation on largely his own dime and merit. (It was a multi-headed approach, yes; without Dockson, many things would not have gotten done as well as they had with him, but this just showcases Kelsier’s ability to organize work well.) If we’re getting into the more psychological definition of responsibility (the feeling of being responsible for a person, place, or thing(s) wellbeing) he takes responsibility for the entire planet in Secret History, going so far as to cheating final death, taking up a shard for safe keeping, and giving it up, all to keep his planet, and those he loves, from Ruin.
Leading the Ghostbloods is similar to him leading his crew, only on a far wider and grander scale.
As for him being consistently irresponsible, it’s safe to say he doesn’t fit this. There are a few times when he makes brash decisions that could be labeled as irresponsible, but they fit being impulsive better, which is a trait we know he has.
Lack of Remorse
“Kelsier stood up, turning his back toward the sight. For all his cleverness, he’d gone and broken the poor girl’s heart. I must be the smartest idiot around, Kelsier thought.”
Probably one of the most contentious topics in the fandom is Kelsier’s feelings towards the nobles he kills. Chapter 5 into the beginning of Chapter 7, we are confronted with how he feels towards the men he kills in pursuit of his goal.
It is very safe to say, he doesn’t feel remorse for these men. It’s explained as he descends from the roof, pushing two guards off the balcony to their deaths. He’s angry, he’s determined, and has no pity for those who hold up the Final Empire, especially if their skaa. He does, however, feel remorse for hurting those he cares about; those he wants to protect. The best example of this is Vin: he feels terrible when she’s nearly killed because of his stunt at Kredick Shaw, he feels bad for how he spoke to her before he died, and he’s stricken by his actions in “killing” Elend in an effort for her to keep the power.
“Vin,” Kelsier said hesitantly. “I owe you an apology. I nearly got you killed.” Vin snorted quietly. “It’s not your fault. I made you take me.” “You shouldn’t have been able to make me.” (Chapter 16, page 267, TFE).
Note the actions at the beginning of this scene: “Kelsier was there when she awoke. He sat on the stool by her bed, hands clasped with his elbows on his knees, watching her by the faint light of a lantern.” (Chapter 16, page 267, TFE) Based on Sanderson’s word choice, it is safe to say he’s been watching her for hours, agonized. This is further cemented by a later observation by Vin. “What did one make of a world where a crewleader agonized over his people?” (Chapter 16, page 269, TFE).
He’s also broken up by how he spoke to the army, leading Yeden to “test” the army by striking against a nearby garrison. The entirety of page 419 showcases Kelsier’s thoughts and emotions about this, but I’ll break it up.
“He sat with hands clasped before him…” Remember when he was watching Vin? Similar behavior. “Kelsier shook his head. So many dead. They’d gathered nearly seven thousand troops before this fiasco, but now most of them lay dead. Yeden had apparently decided to “test” the army by striking at night against the Holstep Garrison. What had led him to such a foolish decision?” “Me, Kelsier thought. This is my fault. He’d promised them supernatural aid. He’d set himself up, had made Yeden a part of the crew, and had talked too casually about doing the impossible. Was it any wonder that Yeden had thought he could attack the Final Empire head on, considering the confidence Kelsier had given him? Was it any wonder the soldiers would go with the man, considering the promises Kelsier had made?” “Now the men were dead, and Kelsier was responsible…But, he couldn’t get over the twisting in his gut…the fact that they’d likely died expecting some sort of divine protection from Kelsier…that was disturbing.”
Kelsier fully feels the weight of hubris here, of the secret plan he’s been working on by himself the past few months, that we get a window into during his time in the caves. He feels terrible for what he caused, he fully understands that this was because of him. Safe to say, he feels remorse. You could say this is the comeuppance for his actions with Bilg.
 When witnessing the executions, Kelsier opens up about his remorse, as well.
 “I wish to the forgotten gods that those boys hadn’t died. Unfortunately, we can’t change that now—we can only use the opening they gave us.” (Chapter 26, page 439, TFE).
Kelsier does not want remorse; he’s full of it. He knows when to put it aside, however, and not let it flood him. Kelsier does not fit this criteria. 
Deep Dives Specific scenes in Mistborn are contentious, especially with Kelsier. I have gotten into many arguments with people whom I feel miss the point of the books, and because they have a grudge on a character, fail to see things from their perspective. Therefore, I’m going to go into these specific scenes, break them down, and lay them flat. Imagine it’s a UV Map of a 3D model; all little edges exposed so we can get a good look!
Kelsier and Bilg: Chapter 20 of TFE
Kelsier’s manipulation of Bilg is a key point in the evidence FOR him to be a psychopath, and I want to point out that while Kelsier had very good reasons for doing what he did, I am by no means saying he was moral in doing it. With that out of the way, let’s discuss WHY Kelsier manipulated Bilg into doing what he did, and the emotions that brought him to this point.
It’s not explained outwardly in the text, but Kelsier has some pretty major PTSD surrounding his time in the pits. He pauses before entering the crack, and uses this moment to impress the men; but inwardly he’s not enjoying having to enter this thin crack in the earth and delve into darkness. We get to hear his inner thoughts, but to all others, he’s putting on an act of confidence and bravado. (Pages 346, 347, 352, 353 of Chapter 21, TFE).
During the first tour of the caves, Kelsier is thinking of Mare, her betrayal, and it gets to be so much he asks Hammond to tell him “what he’s thinking about.” Hammond proceeds to ask him a question that seriously disturbs him.
The question, which was if Skaa are meant to be ruled over by the nobility, stayed with him the rest of the week, along with his darkened mood. He realizes, as he’s eating the feast at the end of his visit, that the skaa don’t really believe they can succeed. They need a symbol, a sign, and Kelsier decides to use himself as that symbol.
The reason he chose Bilg and his friends at the table was to scapegoat them into taking the proverbial L for the army. It was all to use his allomancy to empower Demoux and show them they can and will overpower the Final Empire. The reason BIlg had to die was the keep up appearances; those who question their commanding officers were executed. You can argue we don’t know enough about how a militia is ran in the Final Empire, or that it’s nothing like Earth’s military, but as it’s written by an Earth bound man with Earth bound references, I believe it’s a safe thing to assume. Kelsier, whom we’ve already discussed is an impulsive man, got caught up in the moment: his anger from the week spent cooped up in a cave that reminded of hell overcame him. He truly wanted Bilg to die in that moment. He superseded this thought process, reigned himself in, and let him live.
The morality of his actions here can be discussed, and no, it wasn’t ok to manipulate Bilg and Co’s emotions like that. It wasn’t ok to use them as a scapegoat. But I can sure see how it was necessary for a single man to be sacrificed in order to bolster several thousand.
Hoid in the Well: Secret History
When it comes to this scene, I won’t argue that Kelsier was being extra here. The man has been cooped up in a 5x5 spot for a long time, with no answers and seriously questioning his logic at becoming what he’s become. His only companion is an insane, unraveling god who barely speaks most times he “visits.” So when an actual man comes by, floating on what looks to be a corpse, Kelsier is immediately on edge.
All quotes are taken from pages 228 – 233, of Part 2, Chapter 1, of Secret History.
“ “Who are you?” Kelsier asked, stepping to the edge of his prison, eyes narrowed. “A spirit?” “Alas,” the man said, “death has never really suited me. Bad for the complexion, you see.” He studied Kelsier, lips raised in a knowing smile. Kelsier hated him immediately.” “
Seen from Kelsier’s perspective, this is a man that knows things and is holding back. This is a schemeing, conniving man, that is similar to the nobles he’s dealt with all his life. It doesn’t help that Hoid and Kelsier have similar personalities. Note Hoid’s words, “bad for the complexion.” A similar line is used by Kelsier at the very beginning of TFE. 
“Fieldwork hasn’t ever really suited me.” Kelsier said. “It’s far too hard on my delicate skin.” (Prologue, page 6, TFE).
“Got stuck there, did you?” the man said. “In Ati’s prison…” He clicked his tongue. “Fitting recompense, for what you did. Poetic, even.” “What I did?” “Destroying the Pits, O Scarred one. That was the only perpendicularity on this planet with any reasonable ease of access.” Kelsier has no idea what a perpendicularity is. Yes, he destroyed it. Did he know what he was doing on a grand scale? No. He was, to his knowledge, destroying the Empire’s main economic driver. Hoid treats him like a criminal when Kelsier was fighting against an unjust Empire, one that Hoid is very familiar with, having been to Scadrial before. Calling him names doesn’t help.
“Who are you?” Kelsier said. “I?” The man said. “I am a driver. A miscreant. The flame’s last breath, made of smoke at it’s passing.” “That’s…needlessly obtuse.” Well said, Kelsier. Hoid plays games, this we know from dealing with him in Stormlight. However, with Kaladin and Shallan he gives half answers, or none at all, in a playful, non-demeaning way. Here he’s laden with vitriol and spite, for no good reason. It gets worse.
“And you claim to not be dead?” “If I were, would I need this?” the Driver said, knocking his oar against the front of his small loglike vessel. [Kelsier notices Spanky for the first time, not knowing what a cognitive shadow just is yet.] “A corpse,” he whispered. “Oh Spanky here is just a spirit. It’s damnably difficult to get about in this subastral—anyone physical risks slipping through these mists and falling, perhaps forever. So many thoughts pool together here, becoming what you see around, and you need something finer to travel over it all.” “That’s horrible.” “Says the man who built a revolution on the backs of the dead. At least I only need one corpse.” Hoid is being ridiculous here. Yes, Spanky is a cognitive shadow, but as I’ve stated, Kelsier has no idea what that is. To his knowledge, this man is riding a corpse around. Hoid is also forgetting that the people Kelsier murdered were far less than innocent; Kelsier can make distinctions here. A rapist and murderer who regularly abuses his peasants is different from a corpse used to wade down a lake of thoughts.
Kelsier folded his arms. This man was wary—thought he spoke lightheartedly, he watched Kelsier with care, and held back as if contemplating a method of attack.
Note the diction here; Kelsier is reading Hoid’s body language as he should; Hoid is planning to use the well to gain purchase in the spiritual realm and take that bead of Lerasium. He isn’t planning anything wrong per se, but Kelsier has no way of knowing that. All Kelsier sees is a man preparing to attack.
“He wants something, Kelsier guessed. Something that I have, maybe? No, he seemed legitimately surprised that Kelsier was there. He had come here, intending to visit the Well. Perhaps he wanted to enter it, access the power? Or did he, perhaps, just want to have a look at the thing Beyond?”
Wrong guesses, but good ones all the same for an ignorant man. Hoid does want something. So far, Kelsier’s waryness is completely justified. He tries to be polite, asking a simple question. “Well, you’re obviously resourceful,” Kelsier said. “Perhaps you can help me with my predicament.” “Alas,” The Driver said. “Your case is hopeless.” Kelsier felt his heart sink. “Yes, nothing to be done,” the Driver continued. “You are, indeed, stuck with that face. By manifesting those same features on this side, you show that even your soul is resigned to you always looking like one ugly sonofa—" “Bastard!” Kelsier cut in. “You had me for a second.”
Instead of even offering Kelsier a crumb of help, he instead insults him, for…very little reason. Hoid rarely kicks people when they’re down; he instead punches up. We notice this with the Rosharan nobility. He doesn’t insult the peasant waitstaff. Why is he insulting Kelsier? There is no reason to do so; he’s just being an ass to be an ass. Kelsier hasn’t even mouthed off yet.
So far Hoid has treated him like an inferior, insulted him and been “needlessly” obtuse, all while showing suspicious body language. Is it any wonder Kelsier is on edge and ready to defend the Well? He knows it’s for Vin; he means to protect it until she can have it.
The two go back and forth for some time, speaking of Kelsier’s bastard nature, skaa versus nobility, and Hoid applying some (I believe it to be dor, but I’m not sure) glowing stuff to his oar. (in an effort to prevent it from de-manifesting). As they speak, Hoid edges closer to the well. Kelsier has been watching him this entire time.
He begins to ask a question again, despite Hoid’s rudeness. “Is there a way to escape this prison?” Kelsier asked. “How about this?” the Drifter said. “We’ll have an insult battle. Winner gets to ask one question, and the other has to answer truthfull. I’ll start. What’s wet, ugly, and has scars on it’s arms?” Another insult to an innocent question, and now Kelsier is very on edge. He’s obviously deflecting. So Kelsier decides to be as extra as possible in an effort to scare him away. Now, a cognitive shadow would, realistically, be as scary as an earthworm to Hoid if it’s not on Threnody, but Kelsier doesn’t know this. Which is why he brings out his “I’m-going-to-murder-you” routine that goes into lurid detail and leaves Hoid speechless. Kelsier even throws in a shrug.
Hoid then dives for the well, and Kelsier grabs him, determined to disable him, kill him, or just prevent him from doing whatever he wants to do in the well. Which leads to their fight, where Kelsier does zero damage to Hoid and Hoid proceeds to torture him incessantly as a “lesson.” He did not need to go as far as he did. If Hoid had been truthful with who he was, what he was after, and perhaps offered explanations, Kelsier would have been less inclined to act rashly. Instead, Hoid is needlessly obtuse, rude, mocking, condescending and tortures him.
It makes his words at the end of RoW amusing to me, as Hoid cheats in this fight and was the aggressor in every definition of the word. Hoid strikes first by the very fact he jumped for the Well. Kelsier was merely defending it.
“Deal with your own stupid planet, you idiot. Don’t make me come there and slap you around again.” (Chapter 115, page 1238, RoW).
To tie this long, rambling, and somewhat insane essay up, Kelsier is not a psychopath. He fits only one of the criteria, and only somewhat fits another. Since one needs to fit three of the traits in order to be diagnosed, the man is free from ASPD. Through the essay, I have showcased his empathy, his understanding, his patience, his trust, and his love of those around him. Hell, he says as much in Secret History when wandering, his soul cracking from loneliness. He’s a flawed man; he can be arrogant, egotistical, and impulsive, but he wants what is best for his people. No one can deny that.
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princesslink25 · 2 years
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My cousin got like a military headset thingy so I sent him the “No that is not Solid Snake’ video lol
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onlyhurtforaminute · 9 months
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youtube
XEPER-THE BEAST WITHIN
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Okay so uhhh... visions came upon me and this was the result lol
Based on this absolute atrocity (affectionate... kind of)
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[ID: A fourteen panel comic done in grayscale based on a Twitter thread from David Jenkins.
First panel: Neil Gaiman is surrounded by a crowd of fans, a bright spotlight is shining on top of him. One of the fans points a microphone in his direction and says "Mr. Gaiman! How would describe season two using only three words?"
Second panel: A close up shot of Neil, he smiles and says "Uhh... I'd say it's quiet, gentle, and romantic". "Romantic" is written in a flourished cursive font. There are little floating red hearts surrounding him.
Third panel: A shot of the crowd of fans saying "Awww" in unison, there are little hearts floating around. They find it adorable.
Fourth panel: A black screen titled "At David Jenkins' Twitter"
Fith panel: David Jenkins is sitting in table far away from the point of view, at the center of the image, a spotlight is shining on top of him. There is a crowd of fans forming a semi-circle around him, they are squished against one another, stoping at the little fence that is surrounding the table . A fan standing near the front says " I LOVE U... three words to describe season 2?"
Sixth panel: A close up shot of David Jenkins, he is sitting with both elbows proped up on the table, supporting his head with his hands. The harsh light is shining in on him, he looks serious and solemn. His head is tilted down but his eyes are looking directly at the camera, the whites of his eyes make a stark contrast against his shadowed figure. He says " Fucking sweet...".
Seventh panel: The shot is arranged in the same way as in fifth panel. David Jenkins is far away, sitting at his table , the fans are surrouding him in a semi-circle. The fan near the front replies "Give us one more word David"
Eight panel: A huge shock wave tilts the crowd back. All lights are out, except for the spotlight shining in on David Jenkins. David's arms are unnaturally elongated in a spider-like way, fiercely gripping the table with both hands.
Ninth panel: David lauches into the crowd. The point of view remains the same, but now his head is extremely close up the camera. He emphatically says "FUCKING"
Tenth panel: The scene is seen from the side, now we can see that David still remains sitting at his table, but his neck is extended in a long unnatural arch. He is directly looking at the fan from before, his head on top of them. The fan still has the microphone poiting in David's direction. A new spotlight is shining in on both of them. David says, "SWEET"
Eleventh panel: A close up shot of the crowd. The camera lies a little ways below David's head, only the bottom of it is visible. We see that the fan with the microphone is crouched and almost completely tilted back. The fan is looking directly at Jenkins. The crowd continues squished together, watching intently with shocked faces. David continues, saying "YOU"
Thirteenth panel: The shot is arranged in the same way as in the previous panel. David continues, saying "SLUTS". The letters are written in an emboldened font. The crowd is completely shocked, but also weirdly flattered, all of them are blushing.
Fourteenth panel: David Jenkins goes back to sitting at his table, in a movement similar to a metal spring coiling up again after being streched out. He is sitting far away from the camera, at the center of the image. The fans forming a semi-circle around him. They continue blushing, with some assorted murmurs of bafflement as in "oh my god", "dude what" and "why". /END ID]
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