#the fifth house

[ydteus]

The Fifth House

Abigail Pent | Magnus Quinn

[katakaluptastrophy]

What do the Fifth House actually do?

Sure, yes, ghosts and tradition and the Heart of the Emperor, and Watchers Over the River - but none of those things give you the kind of assets that mean you can dress your cavalier in a coat that "probably cost more than the Ninth House had in its coffers" for a dinner party.

It's made clear very early on that the Fifth are a power to be reckoned with. When they first receive the letter about the Lyctoral pilgrimage, Gideon assumes it would be on the Third or Fifth. Harrow, meanwhile, has frequently-repeated anxieties about the Ninth being subsumed by the Third or Fifth, to the point that she worries that the anniversary party invitation may be an attempt to wipe out the other Houses. Teacher describes the Fifth's relationship with the Fourth as "hegemonic". The Fifth loom so large in the cultural imagination, they even inform the name of the made up porn magazine that Gideon offers to Crux.

The links between the Third and the Fifth that both Gideon and Harrow make seem to reflect both the fact that these two Houses have particular power and influence, but also that they frequently cooperate. Judith writes about the close cooperation of the Second, Third, and Fifth, a relationship which becomes a source of tension as the scions seek to establish authority after the Fifth are murdered. Judith says:

“The Fifth are dead. I take authority for the Fifth. I say we need military intervention, and we need it right now. As the highest-ranked Cohort officer present, that decision falls to me.” “A Cohort captain,” said Naberius, “don’t rank higher than a Third official.” “I’m very much afraid that it does, Tern.” “Prince Tern, if you please,” said Ianthe.

Which makes it sound as though Abigail might technically have been considered the highest ranking person at Canaan House (likely because she was head of her House and not an heir in waiting like Judith or Coronabeth), and that following her death there is some question as to whether the Second or the Third should take control, but notably no suggestion that anyone else might.

We know what the Second do: they are the leaders of the Cohort and the Bureau, the military and intelligence that forms the core of imperial expansion. Most of the information that we get about the other Houses talks only about their cultural or ritual roles in the empire - we get very little in the way of gritty details of what happens outside of the Dominicus system.

We know a little bit about what the Third does - according to Tor they are cultural trendsetters and players in soft power, but the one detail we get in GTN itself is revealing: when Gideon imagines her glorious future in the Cohort, one of the assignments she considers boring is the prospect of being "in some foreign city babysitting some Third governor." Which makes it sound rather like the Second are conquering the planets and the Third are then running them. But the books are even lighter in details about what the Fifth do, beyond ghosts and manners.

However, there is one suggestive detail: an important topic in HTN is stele travel - the necromantic FTL used by the Nine Houses. And Mercymorn, in describing a stele, specifically states that Fifth House adepts are required for their construction. Which rather makes it sound like the Fifth have a monopoly on the manufacturer of the technology required for FTL travel. Now that in and of itself could be the basis of their enormous wealth - selling aerospace tech to an ever expansionist military is probably quite lucrative.

But there's another element of House imperialism that only gets mentioned in passing that doesn't seem to be entirely accounted for, which Judith describes in As Yet Unsent:

"Their other line of attack is the business contracts. They claim that the services asked of them by the Emperor were set down in lifetime contracts by previous generations, who assumed the contracts would be terminated upon the Emperor’s death."

There are obviously some unanswered questions about the imperialist project of the Nine Houses - both Augustine and Coronabeth question quite why it works the way it does - but from the above it sounds like in many respects it functions exactly as you would expect an empire to: as a vehicle for the exploitation of others' resources.

Perhaps the Cohort themselves administer these business contracts. Perhaps they fall under the purview of the Third House planetary governors. But if you're exporting resources from the living planets of your empire to the mostly desolate planets of the Dominicus system, you're going to need some FTL ships and a whole lot of bureaucracy.

And if there's one other detail that we get about the Fifth, it's that there is something significant about the political power of their bureaucracy. As Judith puts it: "Quinn himself is a Fifth House bureaucrat with all that entails."

Are the Second, Third, and Fifth so close and so powerful because they form the bedrock of the empire: the conquest, control, and exploitation of planets beyond the Dominicus system?

[commanderbabygirl]

the fact that nobody in the tlt universe other then alecto (possibly not anymore after the tomb) is ever scared of death is wild to me cus they know what happens after death and it’s going mad until you loose all semblance of yourself. and nobody has a reaction to this???

like yes you could argue it’s just a fact of life they’re used to it but like people have existential crisis’ about death and that’s a fact of life. and yes we’re not surrounded by it like they are but still i feel that such a close relationship with the spirits of the dead like the fifth has to freak you out even if just at first, the whole the more you know about it it either scares you shitless or your no longer scared. and the other houses who know about it in a more abstract way like that would freak me out like wdym i’m going to loose all coherent thought. it’s just a given???

petition to have at least one character have a breakdown about it cus what

[vivmaek]

SUN IN THE 5th HOUSE: Observations

This is the house of creativity, and the Sun feels at home here. These types are natural entertainers. They have flair and attract attention through their sense of self expression.  People with this placement step into the spotlight with ease. They’re not afraid to put on a show and they know how to hook people in. Having a talent for the arts is commonplace. While most would feel vulnerable exposing themselves through the form of art, Sun fifth housers feel powerful when doing this. They have many different passions and hobbies. They might dedicate themselves to a specific medium for a short while, but their creativity knows no bounds. Pursuing multiple creative passions helps them deepen their sense of self expression. Sun fifth housers know how to let go and have fun better than anyone else. It's important to know when to let yourself relax, and these types turn this into a skillset. You won’t catch them overworking themselves to the point of exhaustion. They know their worth and don’t feel the need to prove themselves to others, or to themselves. Following their heart is something that comes easy to people with this placement. When they’re working hard it’s because they feel passionate about the project, there is nothing superficial about their feelings. Due to this, when they inevitably fail (everyone does), it doesn’t hit them as hard as it would other placements. They’re still proud of what they achieved, even if it didn’t get the results they desired. Ultimately, they put their whole authentic self into whatever it is that they create, and it would be hard for them to feel upset about this. Their sense of enthusiasm and joy always shines through, their optimism will carry them into success. They might struggle with an exaggerated sense of self importance. However, if they learn how to balance their ego, this quality will become beneficial. Being humble is not something they’re known for. But, to a Sun fifth houser, being humble is too boring. They’re in touch with their childlike nature and don’t have a desire to tone themselves down just for the sake of maturity. Children inherently feel safe around those with this placement. Unlike other adults, these types can still find magic within everyday life. They respect the outlook and perspectives of children because it mirrors their own. Nourishing this relationship with their inner child gives them a glow and helps invigorate passion. 

[the-overanalyzer]

While necro/cav romance is canonically frowned upon and the Fifth are openly considered weirdos for allowing spouses to pair up as adept and cavalier, even if only after the fact, I have to wonder if Harrow in particular isn't grossed out by it so much because of societal norms as because she's surgically attached the concept of "cavalier" specifically to Ortus.

[multifunctionalnitroglycerin]

Alright, it has been a while, I know, but well. Uni is being a pain in the neck. And not cause I am hunched over a book all day.

Here is my first attempt at digital art, thanks to my brother's insistence.

I don't love the end result, I must admit, though the experience was certainly valuable. Here comes the Fifth for tradition and debts to the dead!

I ll prbs do another one with pen and paper ad per usual.

Take care of yourselves!

[thearcanecat]

Help in the books about lesbian necromancers in space I have somehow latched onto the one straight couple.

[scaery-faery]

Abigail Pent and her ferns. Abigail has dimples and you can fight me on this. Also I've given up on understanding noses lmao

[field-s-of-flowers]

[ID: A reply on a post from the original poster, @/katakaluptastrophy, reading “@/sunshine-fruit-of-the-vine Ooh, your point in the tags about Corona’s comment to Judith is really interesting! Though I suppose it could also be interpreted as the Second being the ones doing the business contracts? Also please tell me more about your political headcanons…” /End ID.]

@katakaluptastrophy this is old but you absolutely do not have to ask me twice oh my god. This is where I reveal exactly how much of a history dork I am so be warned. I have also indicated Vibes in case that is helpful to anybody

So the common denominator among the Houses (as well as among societies as a whole, I spent like half a unit in my sociology class on this last year) is that there’s always a small upper class/nobility/etc and the population gets larger as you go down the ladder. That manifests in different ways within the different Houses, but it’s the same principle: The rich are few, and the poor are many.

That being said…

SECOND: The military leaders of the Nine, the Second are the ones who do the actual conquering of planets. However, Corona’s comment about how “as a Second, [Judith] should be willing to sell her birthright for economics” suggests they might not be getting their share of the profits. A huge portion of the Second lives in poverty, especially the capital city of Trentham, and pretty much the only way to escape it is to join the Cohort. The wealthy and powerful (generals, admirals and war heroes) vehemently deny there ever being a problem. For vibes, think New York City or Chicago but A Little Worse.

THIRD: The economic center of the Nine, the Third is a trade powerhouse and a hub for merchants and artisans. But they also export something a little less palatable: Propaganda for the Empire. The capital, Ida, is an enormous massive palace very similar to Versailles, where the best of the best workers (and the friends of the royal family) are privileged to live. Unlike the Second, where hard work actually can bring you up in the world, success in Ida comes out of bribes, flattery and sex. For vibes, think Paris but even less subtle, and crazy on the amethysts.

FOURTH: Supposedly a backup to the Second. In actuality, the lack of any real leadership has left the small and vulnerable population (veterans, the sick and disabled) to the mercy of the Fourth’s criminal underbelly. The capital city of Tisis is functionally a ghost town, mostly full of impotent, sheltered nobles and extensions of the mafia collecting bribes, and the other cities aren’t much better. For vibes, think Piltover (I don’t play league of legends but I LOVE Arcane), but the upper city is way more depressing and abandoned and the whole thing has kind of an ancient Roman feel as well.

FIFTH: The administration of the Nine, the Fifth works closely with the Emperor himself to keep the internal workings of His Empire running smoothly. Koniortos Court is a complex and many-armed bureaucracy, managed by its Lords or Ladies (and Seneschals, who do most of the actual diplomacy) like clockwork. It lies nestled in the capital of Rhax, where the majority of the Fifth’s population lives and works. There are frequent rebellions, but they’re snuffed out with alarming ease. For vibes, think combination of Victorian London and the city from Ulysses Dies At Dawn.

SIXTH: Less of its own independent state and more of the Emperor’s House of Wisdom, the Sixth House is the center of learning in the Nine Houses. Almost all the Houses send the best of their best to study there, so there’s a lot of people, but its native population is incredibly small- the size of a single city on the Third. Most of the Sixth is a single huge, labyrinthine library, surrounded by dormitories and a few spaceship ports for trade with the Seventh. Rank is decided not by birth, but by ability and age (in theory, anyway; in practice, they’ve strayed a bit from Cassiopeia’s vision). It’s still very communal, and everyone considers each other family on some level. For vibes, think a walled city combined with a super old university.

SEVENTH: The Seventh is responsible for most of the beautiful things made in the Empire. They export and import a lot of art, from pottery to poetry, and are considered superior craftsmen to the Third (which is why Ianthe thinks so poorly of their cloud formation poems). Outside this, they’re largely self-sufficient and very insular, doing their own farming making regular contact with only the Sixth. The lower classes are mostly farmers, while the aristocracy is just a few families, which is how Heptanary cancer happened. For vibes, think the romanticized version of the antebellum South from old books that like to gloss over the slavery thing, but a little bit sickly and weird-looking.

EIGHTH: The religious center of the Nine, the Eighth is in control of the worship of the Emperor and his Saints, as well as the Nine’s religious traditions. They’re also responsible for a chunk of Imperial propaganda- less than the Third, though, and directed less to the shepherd worlds and more within the Nine Houses. They live similarly to the Ninth House, with religious decadence, everyday asceticism and very little social mobility. The population of the Eighth House is actually very diverse, full of pilgrims from all over the Empire. For vibes, think medieval Italy but it’s all minimalist white and it ruins the whole thing.

NINTH: We know about the Ninth. We got like ten chapters about the Ninth. For vibes, think the Ninth.

[bugcowboyart]

//The Fifth House//

Lady Abigail Pent of Koniortos Court and Cavalier Primary Magnus Quinn, seneschal of Koniortos Court.

“Then the path to Lyctorhood is independent research? Gosh! and it isn’t even my birthday!” -Abigail Pent

[griddle-cakes]

Harrow in GtN: We are not becoming an appendix to the Third or Fifth House.

Harrow in HtN: *tongue kisses the Third House* *gets adopted by the Fifth House* 

[madebyancientomens]

THE FIFTH HOUSE OF THE EMPEROR UNDYING, WATCHERS OVER THE RIVER.

home to lady abigail pent of koniortos court and sir magnus quinn of koniortos court.

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[katakaluptastrophy]

I feel like Abigail and Magnus have a very effective political double act where, depending on the circumstances, they will either be Very Direct With Unblinking Horror Stare and her Extremely Helpful seneschal or Engaging Posh Lady Talking To You Affably About Her Ferns while her seneschal explains why the terms you are offering are Not Acceptable and why you will accept the Fifth's terms.

[frontlinebicepsoftheninth]

awfully sad thing i missed my first gtn read and only caught now is that abigail and magnus were struggling with fertility... at the dinner party gideon overhears abigail and dulcinea's conversation, dulcinea says "I think that is a perfect shame" and abigail's response is:

"Thank you. We're over it; it simply wasn't in our cards," the necromancer said, a bit bracingly. "My younger brother's the next in line. He'll do well."

all of this in context with the Fifth's relationship with the Fourth makes me want to cry. abigail and magnus really saw those kids as their own because they couldn't have any themselves :( and don't even get me started on the parental role they played for harrow later on :(((((

[divinatorydoll]

beauty in the natal chart:💄

beauty and charm are strongly associated with venus, but we can see beauty throughout the entire chart !! each house represents qualities in us that people find beautiful:

the first house: your individuality, general demeanor, and personality

the second house: your self-esteem, voice, financial responsibility, and wealth

the third house: your communication skills, driving etiquette, and how you treat people in your community

the fourth house: your domestic needs, sentimentality, and how you are with children

the fifth house: your natural talents, personal confidence, and hobbies

the sixth house: your hygienic habits, tendency toward service, and overall helpfulness

the seventh house: your social behavior, public persona, and how you work in relationships

the eighth house: your inner power, sexual magnetism, and how you handle debts

the ninth house: your spiritual practices, belief systems, and your relationship with travel

the tenth house: your lifelong vision, line of work, and what your sense of dedication

the eleventh house: your ambition, friendliness, and how you connect with people

the twelfth house: your spiritual knowledge, emotional sensitivity, and how intuitive you are

my linktree

book a reading !!

[tasteslikecolors]

Five for Tradition and Debts to the Dead