#the hunger games analysis

[danyllura]

Despite Snows focus being on Katniss, I would argue Peeta played a far more of a rebellious role in his part of the “star crossed lover” during their first games than her. From the moment Cinna gets them to hold hands during the opening ceremony their pairing is shrouded in a “touch of rebellion” - we know alliances among district partners is normal/expected but it is also clear that the terms of agreement are temporary and built upon the goal of their individual survival. Peeta is the one that breaches that agreement, by pushing their relationship beyond district partners to that of “star crossed lovers” with the admittance of his crush on Katniss. It is the intent behind why he chooses what to share that is shrouded in rebellion. Early on Peeta is aware of Katniss’ potential as a tribute and beyond that he recognizes that “spark” that can make her “desirable” to others. Yes, he genuinely loves her. But he shares so not to be honest, or to make himself a sympathetic character for the capitol, but to hopefully benefit her in the arena. He pushes this further by his continuous reiterating of his feelings to the audience, during his time with the careers, alone, and then eventually with Katniss. Time and time again he displays that her survival is his ultimate goal in the games, willing to prioritize her victory over his own life. And while yes, Peeta does this because he does truly love and care about Katniss, he is intentional with his actions. He broadcasts his feelings because it benefits her. And every aspect of that goes against what the games are meant to do to people; divide them.

Comparatively, in regards to the “star crossed lovers” Katniss is much more obedient to the rules of the games. She doesn’t initially portray herself to return Peetas feelings. She plays as a solo player, and Katniss quite literally states she appears “heartless” because of this when they watch back over their time in the arena. When it’s only one promised victor and she believes Peeta to be allied with the careers, she drops a nest of tracker jackets over where Peeta is sleeping and showing she views him as any other competitor. Katniss only reciprocates the role of “star crossed lovers” when the capitol has allowed that type of alliance to work within the games. And if anything her later trick with the berries, is a scene of the capitols own making. It is a final act of desperation. Katniss’ knows Peeta is on the brink of death and it’s even a possibility for the Mutts that had just killed Cato to reappear. When she’s handing the berries to Peeta and as she spills them into her mouth, Katniss is not thinking of the significance of her choice or the potential consequences it may illicit. It’s an emotional decision, not a calculated one. In comparison, laying Rue to rest in a bed of flowers was a far more calculated act of rebellion from Katniss.

But despite all this, President Snow almost solely blames Katniss for the oncoming rebellion. And while Katniss does do many things that help initiate that spark, such as volunteering for Prim, singing to Rue, risking her life for Peeta at the feast- it isn’t that he blames, but rather her lying about loving Peeta back. Because Snow is stuck in the past with his belief that Lucy Gray tricked him into loving her. And Katniss, with her singing and her Mockinjays, is such an obvious parallel of Lucy Grays ghost- he misses the fact that Peeta has been a far more calculated player that has actively rebelled from everything the games are meant to turn you into from the moment he was reaped.

[moodypetrichorlove]

I'm rewatching Catching Fire, and I just got done with the beach scene. So, when Peeta gives Katniss his gold medallion (that Effie had gifted him), we see that it has a locket with 3 frames with each frame carrying one picture to remind Katniss of her family (i.e., her mom, Prim, and Gale), of what she's fighting to go back to.

And it never fails to amaze me that Peeta uses the token Effie got him as a gift for Katniss. Like he uses it to put up pictures of the people he believes she loves the most. He uses it to benefit Katniss. It's as much a reminder for Peeta of what or whom he thinks are the most important people in Katniss' life and why he needs to get her out of that arena as a victor – other than the fact that he's always been in love with her – as it is for Katniss. The level of selflessness that Peeta exudes is just brilliantly moving. He's honestly the best kind of person to have in your corner.

Also, when Effie gives Haymitch and Peeta the tokens, while giving Peeta his, she makes it a point to say, "the medallion we talked about". So, you mean to tell me Peeta and Effie discussed it beforehand? And you mean to tell me that Peeta probably asked for that locket, of all things? Because he had it in his mind what he'd use it for? I mean, the thoughtfulness he put into this, God. There's a 99% chance that using it for Katniss wasn't just something he thought of after Effie gave him the medallion. He most probably (read: definitely) asked for it because he wanted Katniss to be able to remember why she needed to survive. And he added Gale's picture, too... I mean this boy is just so very pure and selfless and wholesome. When he loves, he loves unconditionally, and without looking for his own benefits.

God, I love Peeta Mellark.

[triassictriserratops]

Would you be able to elaborate on your statement about the pseudo sexual imagery of the Everlark pearl? I hadn’t really considered the pearl from that angle before and would love to hear your thoughts on it.

In response to this post So firstly, this in NO WAY takes away from the other symbolism present in the pearl. This is in ADDITION to, NOT instead of. In fact, lemme go into it all from my perspective, although I know MANY creators have expressed a lot of this much more eloquently than I will! PEARLS AS THEY RELATE TO THE CAPITOL

i always viewed the presence of the pearls on Katniss' capitol wedding dress as twofold. Firstly, it speaks of the opulence and extreme perceived wealth of the Capitol. To have a dress adorned with chains of pearls - what a symbol of luxury! I also viewed them as binding/chains. A representation of the "freedom" of the victors. The trappings of their wealth while living under the thumb of the Capitol. Their chains aren't metal, they're beautiful and delicate but still present and just as deadly. Like a gentle hand on their throats.

PEARLS AS THEY RELATE TO PEETA In direct contrast to the Capitol pearls, the pearl Peeta gives Katniss is singular. It isn't purchased, it is found. It is found in a space where Peeta has nothing else to give to Katniss, other than his life. Instead of a chain or a burden it is meant as his symbol of freedom to her, in conjunction with the locket - "I give you fully back to your family. To the people who love and need you. I let you go, but this, here is something to remember me by." (And I also love how it's representative of Peeta's ability to find pieces of beauty in the most horrific of circumstances.) KATNISS' MENTAL CONNECTION OF PEETA AND THE PEARL We also know that, during Peeta's capture, Katniss connects this pearl heavily with Peeta's life and her need to protect it. "Tomorrow morning, I'm going to agree to be the Mockingjay." I tell her. "Because you want to or because you feel forced into it?" she asks. I laugh a little. "Both, I guess. No. I want to. I have to, if it will help the rebels defeat Snow." I squeeze the pearl more tightly in my fist. "It's just...Peeta. I'm afraid if we do win, the rebels will execute him as a traitor." I slip the pearl from the drawer and spend a second sleepless night clutching it in my hand, replaying Peeta's words in my head. "Ask yourself, do you really trust the people you're working with?" I knot the pearl into the corner of the parachute, bury it deep in the recesses of the bag, as if it's Peeta's life and no one can take it away as long as I guard it. Then, later, when Peeta returns and is found to be hijacked, his essence and personhood taken from him and from HER - the Pearl becomes a symbol of the boy she lost and everything he isn't anymore. Then she finds the pearl Peeta gave me. "Is this-?" "Yeah," I say. "Made it through somehow." I don't want to talk about Peeta. One of the best things about training is, it keeps me from thinking of him. "Haymitch says he's getting better," she says. "Maybe. But he's changed," I say. I consider saying a final good-bye to Peeta, decide it would only be bad for both of us. But I do slip the pearl into the pocket of my uniform. A token of the boy with the bread. And, finally, when in the Capitol, in the last mention of the pearl, we connect it with his literal LIFE in Katniss' HANDS. (And Peeta's unwillingness to risk Katniss' life even for his freedom.) "Should we free his hands?" asks Leeg 1. "No!" Peeta growls at her, drawing his cuffs in close to his body. "No," I echo. "But I want the key." Jackson passes it over without a word. I slip it into my pants pocket, where it clicks against the pearl."

And, finally, here we go: THE PEARL AS IT RELATES TO KATNISS' SEXUAL AWAKENING It is no coincidence, to me, that the pearl is gifted from Peeta to Katniss following the events of the kiss on the beach. Katniss has now admitted to herself that Peeta holds sexual currency with her. Her body is reactive to his own and feeds a hunger in her, a flame. The giving and acceptance of the pearl can be viewed as the "tender" of that sexual currency. Katniss ALSO thinks of the pearl as it relates to Peeta in the ways that Peeta was able to make her PHYSICALLY feel. She connects it with both what she felt with him that night on the beach, and what she HOPES to feel with him upon his return. (And what she misses when he is "lost" to her.) I feel around for the parachute and slide my fingers inside until they close around the pearl. I sit back on my bed cross-legged and find myself rubbing the smooth iridescent surface of the pearl back and forth against my lips. For some reason, it's soothing. A cool kiss from the giver himself. I take the pearl from where it lives in my pocket and try to remember the boy with the bread, the strong arms that warded off nightmares on the train, the kisses in the arena. To make myself put a name to the thing I've lost. But what's the use? It's gone. He's gone. Whatever existed between us is gone.

all I'm saying is that Peeta would literally pass out if he ever hears about how she basically kept rubbing one out in 13 to thoughts of him. (Because, let's be real. That's what the symbolism of the pearl was.) Rolling the pearl between her fingers? Kissing it to her lips? COME ON. It's so on the nose. (Or clit in this case.) 🦪😏

[novemberrage]

i love love all the representation of Katniss and Snow being foils of each other throughout the series and one of my favorites is the difference in how they interact with nature.

You can see all the conflicts of classic literature in Suzanne’s incredible writing and Katniss and Snow’s conflict represents man (Snow) vs nature (Katniss) An addition to this is how a element of nature, snow can be deadly to plants

Snow’s symbol for his character is his white rose and Katniss’s is her aquatic plant namesake (as well as the mockingjay obviously but im skipping over that)

Flowers and plants are natural signs of nature but Snow’s white roses are genetically manufactured, pruned and grown in a greenhouse hidden away from the air whereas the katniss plant grows freely in nature and can nourish/feed humanity when needed as Katniss’s father said “as long as you can find yourself, you’ll never starve”

Snow has fences built blocking the people in the districts from reaching what the earth naturally provides, closing them off from nature. Katniss breaches that barrier in order to feed her family and it is nature she turns to again and again for food, to seek refuge in, for flowers to decorate Rue’s body, etc

Every year, he has gigantic arenas mimicking nature manufactured for children to pretend to be gladiators and fight to the death. Katniss defends herself when necessary in the arena but it is her skills to live with the earth and her knowledge of nature that allows her to survive it.

Finally coming back to the mockingjay, nature fighting back and being able to adapt to the world the Capitol and a sign of victory on the part of nature in this conflict

[pennyserenade]

sejanus plinth: the name & what it says about fate vs. choice

sejanus plinth is the namesake of the roman solider, lucius aelius sejanus. i've seen many people question why suzanne collins would choose to name sejanus plinth after this historical figure, and i think her reasoning was rather clever. their similarities are few, but striking: both of them have fathers name strabo, both came from humble riches and both of them were eventually tried for treason. save for that, it seems everything about their narratives were different. i believe collins did this as a way to invite conversation surrounding the topic of destiny vs. choice.

like sejanus plinth, lucius aelius sejanus was born into opportunity because of his father, lucius seius strabo. the roman sejanus was born into the equestrian class, which was one of two upper classes in roman republic. the other class was the patricians. the equestrian class were beneath the patricians (much like how district two, while wealthy, was still seen as below the capital). lucius seius strabo distinguished himself by entering not one, but two, of the highest ranking positions that could be afforded to people in his class: the governor of egypt & praetorian prefect (the praetorian guard was, essentially, a unit of the roman army meant to bodyguard the emperor and their family, as well as watching over civilians). while there is much to be said about the parallels between the equestrian class and district 2--and how both worked to protect the higher class, while remaining nonthreatening to them-- that is a post for a later day.

unlike sejanus plinth, the roman sejanus grasped readily onto the opportunities his father, strabo, had gotten for him. on the back of his father's hard work, roman sejanus rose to power in the praetorian guard, eventually becoming one of the praetorian prefects, alongside his father. this is where the narratives of sejanus plinth and lucius aelius sejanus begin to greatly divide. though sejanus plinth had been readied to take over his father's empire from a young age (being taught how to shoot guns, being the sole heir), he did not take readily to the idea, especially when they were transferred to the capital. sejanus plinth did not see what was happening the capital as desirable, whereas lucius aelius sejanus found himself increasingly power hungry and he did wish to increase his ranking. eventually the roman sejanus outdid his father in his accomplishments. he gained the trust of the emperor tiberius and rose to the position of praetor--a ranking not usual for someone of his class background. this earned him enemies amongst the patrician class and the imperial family, with one of them being drusus julius caesar, the very son of emperor tiberius himself. drusus did not like sejanus because he was encroaching on his grounds, seemingly taking his position as his father's successor in everything but name. sejanus even went as far as trying to secure these ties by marrying his four year old daughter to one of tiberius' family members, but couldn't because the boy died. however, sejanus' ambition did not let him stop there. eventually he poisoned drusus slowly after seducing his wife and making a conspirator out of her. the slow nature of the death allowed it to be ruled natural causes.

in the end, roman sejanus was tried for treason when tiberius began to grow suspicious of sejanus and his growing influence. whlle sejanus plinth shares the same end as this sejanus, the nature of their downfalls cannot be more differerent. sejanus plinth was tried for treason, yes, but hardly for his growing influence, and certainly not for his desire for power. sejanus plinth was hung because of what the capital deemed rebel conspiracy. but plinth died, not because he wished to be powerful, but because he wanted the districts to be free. while sejanus plinth might've been destined to his beginning and fated to his ending, he made choices along the way that drove him away from the path that his predecessor took. he continually chose empathy and kindness, and he could not find comfort in his father's successes and his riches, knowing how many were being punished for n good reason.

the differences between sejanus plinth and lucius aelius sejanus are just as important as their similarities -- if not more -- because they bring up a conversation suzanne collins flirts with a lot in the ballad of songbirds & snakes, which is: how much of who we become is pre-decided and how much of it is choice? with sejanus, we see him rebelling every step of the way, even, it seems, in terms of his 'fate.' had he done what he'd been meant to do, sejanus might very well have lead a long and prosperous career alongside coriolanus or someone like coriolanus, rising to power despite the fact that the power and position was never meant for someone like him. he might've died the very same way, sure, but he'd be remembered a whole lot differently.

sejanus plinth, unlike coriolanus snow, knew that choice was important -- he knew that, though there are factors that certainly help pre-decide what we become, they are not the end all, be all. sejanus plinth's namesake was power hungry and ambitious, ready to take all that could be given to him and rise in the ranks no matter the costs, whereas sejanus plinth was kind-hearted and had no interest whatsoever in being powerful. all he wanted was justice and peace, and for people to stop killing children. they both died because someone feared they could be too powerful, but they were incredibly different people.

[clatoera]

What are your thoughts about the epilogue? Specifically this sentence :

It took five, ten, fifteen years for me to agree. But Peeta wanted them so badly.

How do you interpret it?

Disclaimer : this question is for textual analysis, it's not meant to incite fandom war. please DNI if you don't like this topic.

Thank you so much.

@curiousnonny

BUCKLE IN BESTIES

So

I personally have always been a huge fan of the epilogue. Back when I was little (I say little, I was 11 when it came out) and read it I was like omg yay babies, but as I’ve grown and reflected on it I genuinely have come to love it for the depth of what it represents. 

Katniss makes it clear in The Hunger Games that the reason she does not want children is because it is not safe. It is not because Katniss inherently dislikes children or doesn’t want them because she’s tired of raising kids, it’s because the world is literally unsafe. She can’t guarantee them a roof over their heads, or food to keep them alive, and especially she cannot protect them from the games.  Katniss actually demonstrates a lot of maternal instinct towards her sister and Rue, so I would venture to say she has the instinct if she chose to pursue it. If i’m not mistaken I also think there's a piece of CF where Katniss considers what a good father Peeta would make. Katniss is afraid of having children because of the world she lives in.

The growth to the epilogue is none to be ashamed of. I think it’s actually a natural progression sometimes, as you get older, too. For example when I was Katniss’ age, I certainly was adamant that I didn’t want children. And now, I’m twenty five, and while I'm not itching to be a mother, I am far less opposed to the idea of it. I am by no means saying that people should be told they’ll change their minds or be ignored when they insist they don’t want kids, but again, Katniss was more afraid than she was against it. The world was not safe for her children. The world was not safe for the children in twelve NOR the children of Victors. I think Katniss, after 5,10, 15 years saying yeah. I think I could have a kid. Is a HUGE testament to the world she lived in after the war.  She felt safe enough, finally, after all that time to make the step forward and have children. 

The fact that 15 years later Katniss felt secure enough to have children means the world changed in the way she wanted it to. Everything she did, everything she gave, everything she sacrificed, was finally worth it 15 years when the world she came to live in was one where she could have kids.  This is a sign of a safe world. Of a world where there are no more games. A world where she doesn’t have to be the mockingjay anymore. A world where she can be mom/mama/mommy, instead. This is the world she fought for, where Peeta Mellark’s kids could be safe. 

I also think it’s imperative to say I do not think “it took 5, 10, 15 years for me to agree. But Peeta wanted them so badly” is ANY indicator that he manipulated her or anything of the sort. We know Peeta is the master of the scene, he could manipulate the audience of the capitol, but he never once manipulates Katniss. I don’t think that changes post war. Do I think it’s a conversation that could have come up naturally after..all that time together? Yes. Of course. But a conversation is not manipulation, in fact it’s healthy to check in with your partner where you stand on these sort of things. It could be as simple as a quick off handed comment after seeing kids leave the bakery. Conversing about your future is not inherently manipulation. It’s normal and really should happen in any long term healthy relationship.  In that same vein, I don’t think saying “Peeta wanted them so badly” is saying he’s begging for them. If someone wants kids…you can tell. In the way they smile at babies at restaurants. The way they wave back at them when they pass them on the street. The way they smile and shake their heads when they do something that a parent may find embarrassing but you’re trying to make it clear that they’re kids and you know that and its okay. It is obvious, when someone with a big heart, who wears it on his sleeve, wants children. I don’t think Katniss needed Peeta to say “i want them” for fifteen years. She knew. She saw him interact with them at the bakery. She saw the way he talked about Finnick and Annie’s son. Katniss knew because she loved Peeta, not because Peeta was harassing her about it. Baby fever is absolutely written on some people’s faces, and seeing how Peeta holds his son in the epilogue in the film, there is no doubt that Katniss knew, from loving him for 15 years, that he wanted them. 

 I also think, for Katniss, this was something she could control in her life. Her life in Twelve was really not her own. The lives of ANYONE in Panem were not their own. I have a long long essay here about the illusion of reproductive choice in Panem, so I won’t repeat myself too much. But I think exercising her control over not having children is a way for her to take control of her life and say “I won’t give them my children to slaughter. I won’t give them my children to starve.”

I also think Katniss’ age shouldn’t be overlooked. She turns 18 at the end of Mockingjay. Eighteen years old. That is SO incredibly young. Do I think people in Panem tended to have children starting around 18/19? Yes. But that wasn’t going to be Katniss, who is in mourning. And then okay five years later…23. So young, thats the age you graduate college. 10 years later? 28. Okay understandable, normal. 15 years? 33 years old. When I was younger I thought omg that is SO late in life to have kids that is SO old. No. That’s..a very normal, very healthy, very adult age to have kids. If I had them i’d be 32/33. Thirty Three is such a normal age to have kids, she’s still young, but she’s an adult. With life experience. And years to process her trauma. I think fifteen years makes SENSE when you are eighteen. Live. Figure out what your life is like in this new world, this world without games, or mentoring, or peacekeepers and district lines. She learned had time to grow, she had time to adjust to life. Fifteen years..it makes sense that after that time she’d be like you know what? I have proof the world is safe. I have faith. I feel comfortable and confident and ready to take this next step. 

This part I am treading lightly because I don’t want to get controversial. However, I think a lot of the rejection of the epilogue and the idea that Katniss would choose to be a mother comes from the idea that motherhood and things that may be considered ‘traditionally feminine’ are a weakness, and I think there's some deep societal misogyny at play. The beauty in life  as a woman is having the choice. THAT is feminism. The choice to have kids or not. The choice when to have them. Accepting and loving and embracing your fellow woman whether she has chosen to make a career as a homemaker or as a politician. That is what it’s all about. Having the choice and supporting each other. Having Children does not make you weak. It does not mean you settled into the patriarchy. You can be the mockingjay. You can be a mother. You can be a doctor. You can be a chef. You can be a teacher. You can be a nurse. You can be a writer. These things are not separate. You can make the choice to do these things, and that's what is so important that Katniss CHOOSES this life. She Chooses to have children.  We are not shaming women for that choice, just like we don't shame them if they choose NOT to have children.

She chooses to become a mother in a far more authentic, genuine way than katniss chose to be the mockingjay.

Leading a rebellion. Being the mockingjay. That was not really her choice. She didn’t really have the choice to not be the mockingjay, did she? There wasn’t really an option.

But Katniss CHOSE to have children. She CHOSE to become a mother fifteen years later after the war that stole the person she loved most.. By her own accord. Katniss finally got to choose and direct her own life's path. And Katniss chose to have babies with Peeta Mellark and more power to her for it. 

 Katniss led a revolution and it can all be traced down to the love she had for her little sister, who she raised. I don’t think having children is particularly out of character for a woman who changed the world out of love for a young girl.

For Katniss to go from the mockingjay to mom is probably the most peaceful and well deserved transition of her life.

And most importantly of all, it was clearly her choice.

thank you!

@curiousnonny

[picnic-at-dreaming-rock]

Whilst I do understand and agree to an extent with the sentiment that wanting more thg books/movies about specifically the games is capitol-like behaviour, I also think the way a lot of people have been saying this is very reductionist, especially since we're talking about fiction here.

The people in the ‘you’re missing the point of the books' camp are correct in noting the political messaging and subtext within the novels about the exploitation of violence (and the irony of making an mcu-type franchise of all the hunger games just for the purpose of having them), but I would argue that they themselves have almost entirely missed the point of fictional stories as whole. Yes, part of the success of THG, both commercially and as a piece of storytelling, is her underlying allegory but the other part, which we really cannot forget, is that it is just an otherwise compelling piece of fiction that has placed the Child Killing Show at its epicentre.

TBOSAS has really showed us Collins has clearly thought out the lore of Panem (I personally wouldn’t be surprised if she has already written/planned a bunch of other stories but just hasn’t decided to do anything with them as she doesn’t have something to Say with them yet) and we only ever see the tip of the very fascinating iceberg; I would argue that it is perfectly reasonable to be curious about things we don’t see but are alluded to within the text because of how different this world is to ours. It also makes complete sense as to why the curiosity tends to surround the titular games themselves as they are such an intriguingly unfamiliar concept and are integral to the plot of all four books, which then basically cements the ‘story about Panem = story about the hunger games’ connection.

Further, it is also important to discuss the characters and the emotionally compelling aspects of THG. To reiterate my earlier point, THG aren’t just a political allegory, they are also pieces of fiction, therefore, it should a series whose merits should be considered on both fronts. Her characters are complex and nuanced and are meant to be cared about, with rich character development from beginning to end of the series. I would argue that it’s part of the reason why a series with such an overtly disturbing premise has done so well commercially in both book sales and the box office. I mentioned previously about the games being integral to the plot and I would argue that it is the same for the characters. In many ways, the games act as a character study for how different people react in the same(ish) scenario and how it highlights key aspects of who they are as people as well as forces them to change for better or worse. Similarly, for all of the victors, the games are continually emphasised as defining moments that can tell a lot about said victor.

Putting these two concepts together, it is no surprise that the equation ‘this quarter quell concept is an interesting idea, I’d be interested to hear more about it + I am emotionally engaged with the characters and it’s interesting to see how they all respond to different things in their world + Haymitch is my favourite character and I would love to learn more about him + we learn a lot about characters and Panem during the games’ is going to equal ‘I want to read a book about Haymitch’s games’.

And yes, there is a lot to say about our society and how often we exploit violence afflicted onto others for our entertainment (true crime comes to mind) and how often fictional portrayals of that can desensitise us to real world horror (I also think of all those studies about the correlation of violence in pornography and subsequent violence towards women), but also I think this also comes back to the problematic viewpoint of ‘depiction = endorsement’ and considering what media you consume as equivalent to political advocacy, which is also equally harmful for media literacy as refusing to read for subtext, both of which are practices that discourage nuance and critical thinking

I am also not denying that there might be people with whom the emotional resonance and messaging of the books go straight over their heads, and they do really just seem to want to see kids battling to the deaths, which is something that I have seem to have come across now and then. However, I think to assume that everyone that expresses a desire to read more of Collins’s work and world is doing so out of such a desire rather than to connect with and learn about a world that clearly has significantly more to it than what we’ve been shown whilst also being aware of the core messaging of the series is a bad faith move and, dare I say, similarly problematic.

And again, because this is the piss-on-the-poor website, I want to emphasise that I believe that both sides to this ‘debate’ have legitimate reasoning, but because I do tend to stay on the political/literary analysis side of the fandom, I have, of course, more to say in that regard than for other sides of the fandom. I also want to stress that I am not just talking about the Tumblr fandom here, but also things that I have seen on other platforms and I'm just venting some frustrations that I have had.

All in all, always initially assume miscommunication over malice unless you actually have proof and if you’re going to pride yourself on ‘understanding the point’ of something, remember that you are still susceptible to creating false dichotomies and ditching empathy for moral superiority never makes anything better.

(also want to point out that this is not a conversation about a scenario in which Collins pulled a r*wling in terms of turning her ip into a capitalistic empire because that is a different conversation entirely and this is just about fans wanting hypotheticals out of love for a book series)

[goldrushenthusiast]

Which The Hunger Games characters :

1. Do you relate the most?

2. Do you think missunderstood by people?

3. Do you want to know better?

Please give reasons for your answers. And you can pick more than one character for each question.

Thank you :)

@curiousnonny

1. Honestly probably Peeta

I’ve grown up with a lot of privilege, same with MOST (but not all) of my friends. Whenever I love someone I have the tendency to hold onto it no matter what. I have a great view of the world, and no matter how much I think I can I can’t really hold a grudge for the life of me. I take pictures of everything naturey, if I could paint I’d be doing it all the time, and in general I think we have very similar senses of humor and outlooks on life in general. Peeta and James Potter have been my top fictional character relations since probably early 2022 tbh.

2. Sejanus & Lucy Gray (this is influenced by Coriolanus HEAVILY)

One thing that’s interesting about these is that while people call Katniss an unreliable narrator (she really isn’t tbh, you get that with a lot of first person POVS), Coriolanus is really the one not to be trusted. Every word in that book, even thought it’s from a third person POV, is stained by his mind. It makes it hard separating characters true personalities in it because they’re so diluted by what Coriolanus wants them to be. Dialogue is the most important part of it, but just the dialogue itself. I don’t think we can trust Coriolanus much after.

For one- Coriolanus sees Sejanus as a bit dumb, like he doesn’t know everything he does but it’s not ignorant, just dumb and not smart enough to realize it. This is because of Coriolanus’ idea that he’s smarter than everyone, so he automatically thinks people who don’t think the same as he does are dumb. It’s condescending and even if he doesn’t notice it, it’s still there. When he’s confronted with the idea it might not be true (Lucy Gray winning, all of her deep discussions) his mind goes through hoops trying to explain it. His bigoted attitude towards district people is HUGE. He automatically thinks that they’re (including Sejanus and Lucy Gray) are less smart than him.

This leads to him treating them as such and seeing through that veil. There are a couple of times where we see Sejanus has a personality beyond pity and self wallowing, where he makes sarcastic remarks & acts like a complicated person. I’ll try not to let my own interpretation of Sejanus reflect too much here because I don’t have much to support it.

As a reader, naturally, we see characters how we remember them, and we remember them based on what’s memorable ABOUT them. You remember Sejanus for what Coriolanus calls “outbursts” or tantrums, so you begin to associate him with those childlike emotions and the idea that he doesn’t really understand what he’s getting into.

It’s why I see this idea - that he’s just a poor baby, who just wants to help - so much from people who’ve only read the books <3 times or so. They don’t remember his under the breath comments and things like that, or the way Coriolanus describes him. IMO, for the most part, Sejanus DOES know what he’s doing (most of the time), just doesn’t think it through entirely. I’ve seen too many people portray him like a himbo, or an idiot, which ISNT TRUE. At all. They only do it because Coriolanus still associates Sejanus with his 8 year old child self and because Coriolanus sees him as lesser, and dumber, which go hand in hand for him.

That was way more than I was planning to write- oops! But the physiological aspects of how we see characters and what affects that is fascinating.

Now, Lucy Gray. Because we see her in a more romantic way, because Coriolanus does, we see her differently, because Coriolanus sees all forms of love (minus obligatory things, like family) the same (I could talk about this FOREVER).

Coriolanus sees Lucy Gray as something he can control and own. Obviously, she isn’t. He also sees her as a bit helpless and needy, which again, she isn’t. She’s been providing for her family since she was 12 (approx). It’s easy to assume she’s very strong, and she handles things well.

Now, the thing with Lucy Gray is that a lot of people think that she never loved Coriolanus, she was just using him, and I get where that comes in. However, I disagree. I think that’s the MAIN off characterization. She was not stone cold and unfeeling, nor was she some badass.

Lucy Gray’s character I actually change my mind about a LOT, because that’s exactly what she does to people. That’s what she’s SUPPOSED to do. It was how she written. She’s an amazing actor, and everything she does (although not on the first read), we start to question. This goes back into our view as a reader & how we characterize characters. She’s memorable because we saw her as Coriolanus did (someone to be helped, with a sad past, and someone attractive), then that view switched. During the first half of part 2, we started to see her come out of her shell and be more fun & rebellious. She still was in part 1, don’t get me wrong, but because Coriolanus didn’t seem to register that as much neither do we, or at least we don’t get the full extent of it until part 2.

In the first half of part 2, because of the shows and the hanging tree, we get more clues as to who she actually is. I think that part 2 is where we really have to consider her personality because it’s 10x as likely she isn’t acting anymore. We also see her past with Billy Taupe, which provides just the right opportunity for Coriolanus (and therefore us) to continue seeing her as someone who needs protection and has ownership.

This is good (ofc not really GOOD, but you get the point), because it really lets us experience the full extent of the SHOCK (the first time reading it) when Lucy Gray betrays him. I’ve already talked lots about why they betrayed each OTHER, and how it made perfect sense for each character, so if you’re interested it’s somewhere on @balladofmyramblings. It’s the one about people getting wrong why the ending was perfect.

As I’ve said before, Lucy Gray values TRUST. It’s why she does go to Coriolanus for comfort after he shoots Mayfair, and why she turns to him. It’s not about needing him, it’s about the fact that now that she’s out of the arena and can trust him & she doesn’t think he’ll hurt her, she can actually trust him. It’s why I think that she truly loved him. Remember, Coriolanus is also affected by his view of himself. We’re annoyed with him and know he doesn’t view Lucy Gray well because we know him. But he’s a good actor, and it’s vibes that Lucy Gray must go off of. Their purest stage of their relationship was during the first half of part 2 for sure.

I’d also like to mention Lucy Gray just got out of a toxic, probably abusive, heart wrenching relationship so it makes sense she’s LOOKING for more protection in a partner, even if she doesn’t exactly need to be protected (or owned especially).

Anywho, TLDR, people think that Lucy Gray was more cold and calculated than she was or (but I didn’t touch on this because I haven’t seen it much) not at all. Truth is, she’s a mix of both, and does find comfort in Coriolanus & eventually betrays him in a cold and calculated way.

3. Tigris!

I’d love to see Coriolanus’ rise to power through HER eyes, and know her story, and all that she did. She’s a very interesting character and I’m glad Suzanne made her Coriolanus’ cousin instead of some stranger- it was genius.

Thank you for the question, @curiousnonny, and as always feel free to debate but not argue with me in the reblogs/replies!

[basicallyjustmuggleremuslupin]

in the first chapter of Catching Fire when Katniss returns home from a night of hunting and food in the hob, it is said "A light snow starts to fall as I make my way to the Victor's Village". the chapter then ends with President Snow being at her house, waiting for her, and the words "I'm staring into the snakelike eyes of President Snow". Suzanne, what have you done?

[fictionaltrvlr]

I had an ask from @curiousnonny that i accidentally deleted, but here it is anyway 😅

Ask: What happened in the Career districts, why would they volunteer for a life or death battle? Do you think this is a parallel to real life?

I definitely think it parallels our current society! Collins said that she came up with the idea wile flipping between channels of reality tv and the invasion of Iraq, and I definitely see both of these as parallels to why the Careers would volunteer.

First, and not so serious, the reality tv angle. Reality tv is so diverse, we have a lot of fairly harmless ones. But we also have a lot that have made us question the ethical implications.

Recently, Jury Duty, where this poor guy was basically Truman Show’d in real life and has stated that it’s been hard for him to move on and that he feels like he’s always being watched and followed. And also the ‘real life’ Squid Games which is currently being discussed, due to the living conditions and lack of compensation most of the tributes contestants, experienced. And of course, the classics, like Fear Factor.

People will put themselves in really weird, dangerous, and at the very least emotionally hazardous situations simply for the promise of a cash reward and fame.

Secondly, more darkly, is the war/military component. Young people are both drafted and volunteer to fight in conflicts that they often don’t fully understand. We can look both in history and to current conflicts and wonder how so many people could support something that to us looks obviously wrong or cruel. But as a society we are often blinded by patriotism.

Even looking at the way the military is, we have so much propaganda geared towards young people about how they will be heroes and welcomed home as such. However, just look at veterans. They often don’t have access to the mental health services they need to cope with their trauma. Many veterans end up homeless because they can’t work a steady job as a direct result of their service.

I think both of these factors go into why the Careers would volunteer. They fell for the shine and the lie that they would return from the games as heroes and be free and almost royalty for the rest of their lives. And yes, they received riches and fame, but at what cost? Mockingjay really highlights how they continued to be used; their lives were not their own.

And I think that’s the same way it is today. People’s lives are often ruined by fame, they never really have privacy again, they are mercilessly mocked by the internet.

And in a more serious vein, those who literally risk their lives often come home to regret their actions, feel they were fighting for a wrong cause, or they end up being be discarded by the very government that used them and promised them a hero’s legacy (the life of a victor, if you will), and now they have to live with pain for the rest of their lives.

The Hunger Games is a brilliant criticism of our society.

[vittoriaisfuckingpathetic]

drawing parallels between snowbaird and carolina by taylor swift

kind of long post ahead but today i was thinking about snow and lucy gray and i came to the realization that they’re so carolina by taylor swift coded

the entire song doesn’t specifically fit them but i feel like they draw a parallel to these lyrics. in this instance, lucy gray is the titular carolina and snow is the narrator (whose pov is established as unstable, especially in the novel).

the “places i will never-ever go” line can relate to district 12. in the original hunger games (at least in the film, i haven’t read the original trilogy books yet im sorry) film, when discussing d12 with seneca crane, snow offhandedly mentions having been to said district and his distaste for it.

”carolina stains on the dress she left, indelible scars, pivotal marks, blue as the life she fled” in this example, the “dress” is the scarf lucy gray leaves when she runs from snow, the “pivotal marks” is the snakebite he gets, and “blue as the life she fled” is a little more self-explanatory, but also snow was too self-serving (let’s not forget downright evil by the end of the film) and lucy gray would have been miserable had she chosen to stay with him.

“hide me like robes, down the back road” can be viewed as the pair’s attempt to run away.

”oh, carolina knows why for years they’ve said that i was guilty as sin and sleeping in a liar’s bed” and ”but the sleep comes fast, and i’ll meet no ghosts”. these lines can parallel snow’s complete and emphatic belief that no matter what, he is correct. he does not try to understand lucy gray’s point of view and (explicitly shown in the novel) immediately jumps to the conclusion that she is betraying him. lucy gray was arguably the person he was closest to for a period of time, and she erases herself from the narrative, meaning snow is the only person who can tell their story.

the final lyric that i’m dissecting for my snow and lucy gray agenda is “and there are things that only carolina will ever know”. again, carolina being my parallel to lucy gray here; it is mentioned that most records of lucy gray’s games are mostly stricken from the record. by the time of the original trilogy, nobody in district 12 seems to know her name. her story is all but forgotten by seemingly everyone but snow — which is exactly what he wanted.

…but her song lives on to haunt snow decades later.

[triassictriserratops]

Rebel Heraldry of the Mockingjay

I have this idea that The Mockingjay was a symbol of the rebellion and was likely used in the Capitol to denote undercover operatives long before Katniss came onto the scene. What we know: 1.) Mockingjays are an unintended byproduct of the Capitol through the mating of their lab created muttation, the Jabberjay, and the local Mockingbird. 2.) The Mockingjays mimic sounds and vocalizations (not words, but cadence and song, yes.) 3.) After Katniss is reaped, Madge Undersee gives Katniss a gold Mockingjay pin. We later find that this pin belonged to Maysilee Donner, Madge's aunt who was a fallen tribute in the 2nd Quarter Quell and a district partner and games ally to Haymitch Abernathy. 4.) Recycled background footage of the ruins of District 13 included a shot of a Mockingjay in the corner of the screen. 5.) After the war, Plutarch was appointed to Secretary of Communications. Meaning that he is in charge of televised programming. 6.) The rebellion/mentors used bread as a form of communication during the Quarter Quell. The District bread representing the day and the number of loaves representing the hours. 7.) Bonnie and Twill showed Katniss a wafer/cracker with the Mockingjay symbol stamped into it. Speculations I have made considering the above: 1. & 2.) The rebels used the mockingjay to send coded messages to each other through song. Songs like "The Hanging Tree" being a call to arms, a warning, or an echolocation tactic. Rue mentions using the mockingjays to signal to the workers that their shift is over. Peeta remembers hearing Mr. Everdeen sing to the mockingjays. Mrs. Everdeen was absolutely furious when she learned that Mr. Everdeen had been singing this song in front of their daughters. All of this leads me to believe that the mockingjays were co-opted by the rebellion to communicate with each other where they otherwise would have been unable to. There is plenty of evidence in human history of music being used as a code. So none of this seems unlikely. 3.) Madge, likely knowing SOME of the history of the mockingjay given her father's status as Mayor gives this pin as a sign to Haymitch. She's cashing in her chips for Katniss in the hopes that this message gets to whoever it needs to in order to help her. Madge places a HUGE importance on Katniss wearing the pin right away. Even going as far as pinning it to Katniss' dress herself. This makes me believe that The Mockingjay symbol didn't become important because of Katniss. It was ALREADY important, and Madge was COUNTING on that. Later we learn that Rue specifically trusted Katniss because of the pin. I wonder if in District 11 especially, the Mockingjay is connoted with trust, safety, freedom, and hope. This could be an interpretation passed down from the First Rebellion and the Dark Days that has loosely made it's way into Rue's generation as just a generic symbol of "good" 4. & 5.) During the Victor rescue mission of Peeta, Johanna, and Annie, we learn from Haymitch that undercover operatives within the Capitol will likely have their covers blown as a result. This tells me that there are likely significantly more people in the Capitol that were part of the Resistance than we are aware of. I believe that there were likely already people undercover within the airwaves that Plutarch eventually took over. I do not think that the continued use of the District 13 footage with the mockingjay was an accident or an error. I believe it was completely intentional and was a message to the right audience that District 13, and the Rebellion, was still active, if laying low. It is no coincidence that both Bonnie and Twill, and Lavinia and the boy she was with, were all likely heading to District 13. That was the intended purpose of the footage. A sign to all possible refugees that District 13 wasn't as "gone" as it was made out to be.

6. & 7.) I believe that the districts and the rebellion always used consumables, specifically bread, to send messages along with mockingjay calls. Katniss says in Catching Fire, "Real rebels don't put a secret symbol on something as durable as jewelry. They put it on a wafer of bread that can be eaten in a second if necessary." On bread they could print symbols, simple messages, use parts of the bread to denote date/time. Use the "lines" in the bread to create rudimentary location maps. I theorize that Katniss' parents generation had their own, low level rebellion. Enough to necessitate a harder life of non-rare whippings than what Katniss grew up experiencing. "Don't worry." says Haymitch. "Used to be a lot of whipping before Cray. She's the one we took them to." "So it's starting again?" she says. "Like before?" This next part is heavier speculation so take it with a large grain of salt. I think that some of the trades between the Baker and Mr. Everdeen could have been coded messages regarding secret meeting locations and times. The purpose of these visits could have been forwarned with the mockingjay song, as stated above. (leading to the memory of Peeta seeing him sing to the mockingjays outside of the bakery) As a trader, Mr. Everdeen could have easily been the conduit to pass the message along to multiple people without drawing overt suspicion. I have more thoughts about how the mine explosion that killed Katniss and Gale's fathers was likely intentional and a way to subdue the hints of uprising that had been brewing in District 12. But that's for another day.

[novemberrage]

a shoutout to Suzanne weaving parallels to an ancient greek myth into her book series about a futuristic dystopian world and doing it amazingly

[magpieanalysis]

I love that every victor from District 12 won by breaking the rules.

Katniss was proficient with a bow and in a forest because she went past the fence and hunted game illegally; Peeta survived because Katniss threatened for the games to not have a victor after the promised rule (presumably influenced by Haymitch?) if he wasn’t saved; Haymitch won because he used the capitol forcefield against his opponent, bringing their weapon into his game; Lucy won because of rat poison brought into the arena and Snow feeding her scent to the snakes.

There was not a victor from twelve that didn’t backhand the Capitol with their survival. lmao.

[thatrandomblogsays]

Me: *reading a post that makes the joke “Peeta dropped the baby bomb, Gale drops bombs on babies”* haha good one

Also me: you’re missing the point! You’re missing the point! YOURE MISSING THE POINT! He grew up starving. His best friend almost died of hunger. Most of his people live in poverty. He watched children die in a bloodbath every year for the capital’s entertainment. The girl he loved went into the games. Was tortured by the capitol. His district was bombed out of existence. Nearly everyone he knew was killed. Their only crime was being fed up of being hungry and oppressed and sharing the same district as Katniss. All those innocent people. Murdered. He had to take refuge in a district that was bombed out of existence and forced to live underground. Of course he joined the war effort. Of course he designed unethical bombs and battle tactics. He wanted revenge. He wanted the capitol to have a taste of their own medicine. He wanted the rebellion to succeed. And tell me you could live through what he did, and that no part of you would be screaming for Justice and vengeance. Gale is you. You are Gale. He represents a part of feelings and actions that reside within us, even if you don’t act on it.

“But he killed prim!” Exactly! Gale loved prim. She was a second family to her. He looked after Katniss’ family. He saved them from the district 12 bombings. He loved her. He never would’ve put her in danger. He never would’ve put in order for a bombing if it would kill Prim. But coin would. And did. She took what was meant to be a tool of Gale’s righteous revenge for all the suffering he and his people suffered through, only for someone in power to take it and use it to kill someone he loved.

There’s some many lessons to take. We can’t control the things we create. War spares no one. Even justifiable rage and actions can end up rebounding and hurting those you love instead of your targets.

“He drops bombs on babies” is too simplistic of a takeaway and does a disservice to the story and Gale.

[clatoera]

Waiting for that essay 😉

<3 it's 4 pages long <3 single spaced <3 not proofread <3 Im gonna get cancelled <3

Y'all wanna know my opinions here they are. Thanks for coming to this ted talk.