#the sokovia accords were my mcu hill to die on

[fantastic-nonsense]

STEVE ROGERS WAS RIGHT AND SO AM I

[wayward-mikaelson]

In an AU scenario, where Baron Zemo's family survived the Sokovia disaster somehow, how could Captain America: Civil War play out if he and his family just took priority on taking care of each other rather than seek revenge towards anyone?

Also could you tag my message, the first and the next, I sent so I can see them on the happyhoganon tag?

Before we get into Civil War, let’s talk about Zemo for a minute because he did play a big part in Civil War and could still play a part in Civil War if his family didn’t die. Now a quick background on MCU Zemo.

We all know that Zemo was in EKO Scorpion-the Sokovian kill squad. Meaning, for those who don’t know, he’s just as good at killing people as any assassins are. Falcon and the Winter Soldier showed that to us in Episode Three Power Broker with the fight scene we were given. Since Zemo was a part of a kill squad we can assume that he had missions/deployments occasionally. Very common, his wife and son are used to it because he always came home in one piece. We also know he loved his wife and son very dearly. He was a good husband and a good father—He knew his son's favorite candy and knew that his son wanted an Xbox. He would literally do just about anything for them. Including death as we see in Civil War.

Now, let’s start with Zemo in Sokovia before we touch up on anything Civil War related.

Zemo and his EKO team are sent to defend the Battle of Sokovia. Instead of sending them outside of Novi Grad, he sends them to Riga where they would be safe from all the fighting if it were to make it out that far. Before being sent off to Riga, Zemo promises his family he will catch up to them as soon as he is able. During the evacuation, Zemo and his squad are told to evacuate as well. Zemo get’s whatever car he could get his hands on, hot wires it and speeds his way towards his family. In the rearview mirror, he can see part of his county begin to rise and part of him wants to pull over and watch. But something deep in his gut told him not to.

By the time he arrived in Riga, the devastation of Sokovia had spread worldwide. An entire country was blown to bits and wiped off the face of the Earth. Nothing remained except for the hundreds of lives that were lost.

Zemo volunteered to help with the search and rescue and when he arrived at what was left of Sokovia, he knew he made the right choice to get his family out of the entire country. Their home was nothing more than firewood now. Only a small handful of survivors were found under the rubble in the two days that it took to uncover all the bodies.

A year later, Zemo and a group of survivors go to New York to talk to Tony and Steve about what they could have done differently the moment the battle was over. “Many lives could have still been saved,” Zemo told the two men in front of him. So, Tony, Steve and Zemo talked about what they could do in the future.

But that didn’t stop other countries from drawing up the Sokovia Accords and presenting them to the Avengers after what happened in Lagos. Tony felt like he didn’t have a choice to sign. Natasha as well. Steve doesn’t sign at all because of the same reasons in Civil War.

Instead of a bomb killing T’Chaka, he has a heart attack and dies. Making T’Challa more eagared to get the Accords signed and finalized. T’Challa does what it takes.

Now, Steve finds out Tony let Ross take Wanda. Steve is mad that it happened. He enlists the help of Maria Hill and pulls Clint out of retirement. They track the transport bus down and Clint pops one the tires, making the bus swerve around. As they are getting Wanda off the buss and out of the straight jacket and shock collar, T’Challa comes to try and stop it but is bested by Clint and one of his shocking arrows.

Everyone meets up at the airport like they do in the movie, including Zemo. Steve felt that he would be a great asset to their cause and once he explained everything, Zemo was on his side.

Steve convinces Tony to let them go and before they go, it’s Natasha who reveals that Bucky is Tony’s parents' killer. She explained that after SHIELD/Hydra fell, she combed every single file that Hydra had and she discovered that it was Bucky who killed Howard and Maria Stark.

A fight breaks out because Tony couldn’t keep a level head and not only wants Wanda back, he wants Bucky to pay for the murder of his parents. As the fighting gets more intense, it’s Zemo and Clint that tell Steve that he and Bucky need to get Wanda out of there and leave the rest of them.

As the three of them run to the hanger, they are cornered by Tony. Tony at this point doesn’t care about Wanda. He’s willing to let Wanda go with Steve. He wants Bucky at this point. He wants Bucky to pay for what he did. He wants Bucky to feel what he felt when he lost his parents. But really, Tony can’t do that. Bucky already knows he lost too much.

Steve, of course, says no. Tony is ready to fight Steve until Wanda gets in the way. At this point, Tony’s brain is clouded and he can’t think straight. Tony’s ready to blast Wanda until Vision comes and puts his hand through Tony using the Mind Stone. Giving The trio enough time to leave.

The trio ends up in some random country in a nearby village. The villagers are welcoming and allow the three of them to stay for as long as they like. For the next few months, Wanda helps Bucky erase everything that Hydra did to him after telling Steve about his code words. Soon, Vision shows up with Sam and Natasha, who he broke free from prison.

Steve asked why he did what he did, Vision only answered “It was the right thing to do.”

Vision and Wanda go their separate ways. Sam goes his separate way. Natasha mentions something about a family and leaves. Steve and Bucky are left by themselves until it’s time to rescue Wanda and Vision from Thanos’s children. And it’s Rhodey who suggest they go to Wakanda to see if they can save Vision.

***

A/N: I'll be honest, I wrote this and rewrote this several times before I was happy with it. I do believe that if Zemo didn't break up the Avengers that it would be Natasha to break the news that it was Bucky who killed Howard and Maria Stark. I also believe that Vision would have some sort of "change of heart" after protecting Wanda and running with her. Bucky of course had to play a part cause Civil War isn't Civil War without Bucky so Steve just ended up finding him. Zemo does his part for family and to try and prevent something like Sokovia from happening again.

[plush-anon]

you have seen 4 and half minutes of random low quality clips from a three hour movie. The Russo's are 3 for 3, and all test audiences have been raving about what they've seen from Endgame. You need to calm down until you actually see the film lol.

guess you missed that part huh friend

(also one of my tags literally read ‘plush rants’, that doesn’t necessarily mean calm and collected response. this is a post i made to vent about possible outcomes for Endgame based off of my own concerns and opinions about what came out in the Clips. literally a ‘Dead Dove Do Not Eat’ kind of post)

On the Russo’s being 3 for 3, I’m gonna have to disagree there friend just bc... lord knows there are a LOT of issues with poor writing, plot contrivances, and plot holes with both Civil War and Infinity War that came directly out of their creative choices and views on the characters they are responsible for portraying.

For example, in Civil War:

When Ross was grilling the Avengers over what happened with New York, how is it that no one mentioned that the government outright TRIED TO NUKE NEW YORK CITY? There was a portion of the movie with Tony Stark flying the nuclear missile sent to destroy everything and everyone in one fell swoop - literal millions of innocent civilians - into the alien wormhole. How is it that no one tries to argue this on Team Cap’s team?

Who the heck hired Crossbones in Civil War to fcuk up the shit in Lagos? Was he still working for some fragment of HYDRA? What was his purpose there, what was his plan? He wanted revenge on Cap, but what was his plan to achieve that? Did Zemo hire him?

How is it that the Winter Soldier found the one place on an abandoned road where there was a convenient security camera showing him killing Tony’s parents in a way that there was no doubt those were the two people he was killing in the 80s/90s? did HYDRA put it there to watch it like a sports game, and if so, how did they tell Bucky that so he knew where to pull over, and how did they know the Starks’ travel plans to the point they could predict exactly where to run them off the road to that specific camera?

What was the point about the Five Winter Soldiers subplot, except to get Steve, Tony, and Bucky in one room together to watch the video tape of the Starks’ brutal murder? If the whole point was to turn the Avengers on each other, why not first split them apart, frame Steve as protecting a man who blew up the UN (even if it wasn’t him, the gen public still thinks this), then publicly release/show the video verifying that yes, this is a dangerous criminal and Cap is protecting him?

Does Zemo have a Crystal Ball to tell him everything that’s happening, in order to predict how everything fell perfectly into place? He orchestrated the UN bombing to frame Bucky, but how on earth did he account for the Lagos incident with Scarlet Witch, or the Sokovia Accords’ creation, or Black Panther’s involvement? How did he perfectly predict the fall of the Avengers and the stressors needed to force a split, to where Tony, Steve, and Bucky would be in place for him to bring them to the Tape of Dismay?

What was the point of including Ant-Man apart from the fight scene? Scott Lang’s entry into the MCU focused entirely on him trying to prove that he’s not a criminal and wants to do the best possible by his family and the world around him... only to throw it all away to break the law, fight with Captain America, and immediately get thrown in jail for it.

Maybe he didn’t fully understand what he was getting into, but what about Hawkeye, who has a wife and three kids? At the end of AOU, he was hoping to retire and live a peaceful life with his family, which was the whole reason Quicksilver died. Now his kids have no dad bc... why, exactly? He got bored? He wasn’t involved in anything leading up to the Accords like the Lagos explosion, why would he come back now? He knew full well what he was getting into when he joined Steve, and got arrested for it.What was the point except to flatten out the roster?

Why did Howard Stark decide to transport the Super Soldier Serum without any form of bodyguards nearby, ESPECIALLY with his wife in the car? Was the plan to transport it as quietly as possible while a heavily armored decoy distracted whoever was after it? If so, 1.) what danger/risk was there that required this method? 2.) did no one think to put a tracker on the Starks’ personal car while they were doing this, to ensure no bumps or hiccups? 3.) if there was a suspected leak at SHIELD, why would Howard endanger his wife needlessly under the guise of a normal drive out? (short answer: he’s a dick, but I digress) 4.) Who the heck were they trying to fool by driving around on back roads in the middle of nowhere? Where was their destination? (This branch of questioning I do recognize as not having enough time to flesh out, but the whole scenario raises a shitton of questions in general).

During all of this, where was Maria Hill? She was a higher up with SHIELD, and she was still free and alive. Fury was still presumed dead at large, I’m assuming, but wouldn’t she have tried to speak up, or was she keeping her head down?

And now, for Infinity War:

Why is it that when Thanos showed up, Loki didn’t use the Tesseract to open up a Portal to help all of the Asgardian refugees escape directly to Midgard, or even a nearby planet? Thor and Loki used it to transport back to Asgard at the end of Avengers: Assemble, and Thanos used it to teleport between planets effortlessly; while it cannot open massive wormholes on its own, it could still be used to transport people in between space, which Loki is known to excel at.

Why is it that, as Thanos was leaving the ship with Thor still alive, that Loki decided to call out to him, calling attention back to himself when they could have reconvened and sought out the Avengers to make a plan, all to try to stab him with a tiny knife?

Why didn’t Hulk show up before when Thanos was destroying/slaughtering the entire ship of Asgardian Refugees until Thor was captured and Heimdall was killed - why did he wait?

How did Bruce know to warn about Thanos, when he’s never shown any sign of being able to recall knowledge he learned as Hulk or memories during his time as the Hulk before now?

What the heck happened to Nova when Thanos went to retrieve the Power Stone? Wouldn’t the Guardians have been alerted when Nova attacked, given both their experience with the Stone and Gamora’s past with Thanos? How about the fact that StarLord can actually wield the stone somewhat? Wouldn’t they be a strong contender to stop Thanos, based on power and knowledge of him?

How about Rhodey suddenly deciding to turn his back on everything he fought for in Civil War without any sort of precursor than ‘he looks annoyed at Ross’ when Cap walks in?

What the heck are the logistics of Red Skull being the Ghost of Infinity Stone Past protecting an Infinity Stone he never encountered? Did the Tesseract transport him there as a protector, and if so, why doesn’t Thanos use the Tesseract to travel instantly to where the other stones are located? Why did the Tesseract transport the spirit of Red Skull to protect/conveniently explain the terms & conditions of the Soul Stone to anyone who came looking for it?

What was the point of killing half of all life to “preserve resources” or bc there weren’t “enough resources” for the populations when you kill half of all plants and animals in the universe as well? Did none of this occur to him as he was making the plan?

Doctor Strange said in Thor 3 that he keeps a watchlist on potential threats to Earth, which is how he knows about Loki - so why doesn’t he know about the Mad Titan with massive armies seeking the Infinity Stones at the beginning of IW?

For that matter, why didn’t Doctor Strange trap Thanos in a time loop like he did with Dormammu? Without the Time Stone, Thanos couldn’t escape, so why didn’t that come into play?

Also, what about Doctor Strange’s portal creating sling rings? If he had an issue with Tony Stark or Peter Parker being on the space ship, why not sling them back to Earth (or do they only work on Earth)?

For that matter, why not cut off Thanos’ hand with the Gauntlet USING these portals once they have him pinned? Could Thanos control his hand even as it was severed from his body?

Where the fcuk did the whole Wanda/Vision relationship bloom from, when they were on very opposite sides in Civil War, and Vision contributed to keeping her under house arrest? Where did romance even pop up there?

The Infinity Stones are supposed to be indestructible, as outlined in both GOTG and Thor TDW - how is it then that Wanda can destroy one now? Was it weakened by Shuri’s removal process (which was never aimed at destroying the Stone, only separating it from Vision without killing him)?

Vision was willing to sacrifice himself to destroy the Stone in his head and keep Thanos from winning, yet Steve goes ‘We don’t trade lives’, even when that wouldn’t be his decision to make - it’s Vision’s and he’s willing. Then they go to Wakanda to have the stone removed, and potentially hundreds of soldiers die bc that’s where Thanos’ armies landed down. They all knew that Thanos could track Vision (given that Steve and Natasha come to rescue him from the Black Hand at that subway station), so why risk the lives of thousands in Wakanda on the chance that he survives having it removed, only to have to destroy him anyways AFTER gods know how many have already died?

How was the Black Hand powerful enough to kill/maim/capture a host of Asgardians (who have been proven to have much higher durablity in regards to injuries in general) along with Thor, Loki, Heimdall, Hulk, and presumably Valkyrie, all of whom (save Hulk), have literal CENTURIES of fighting experience under their belts - and yet struggle and lose to mildly superpowered humans with far less durability to injuries than Asgardians (who live on average for 5000 years at a time, and have accelerated healing, as seen in both Avengers Assemble and the Agents of SHIELD tv series, which does share a level of canon to the main MCU)?

How could Thor withstand the full blast of a DYING STAR and be up again by holding his axe summoning the Bifrost’s power to heal him (????), yet not be capable of breaking out of Ebony Maw’s iron bars holding him in place in the first ten minutes of the movie?

How did Thor know exactly where to beam in via his Bifrost-wielding axe to Wakanda? Did the axe come with a GPS on finding ‘big ass battles’ to join in, or can it track Infinity Stones? If he stopped somewhere else to find out where to go, where did he go to and who told him? The Avengers didn’t exactly publicize the Infinity Stones or Thanos’ arrival, or leave too many people behind that Thor could easily touch base with.

For that matter, Thor arrived on Midgard before Thanos - with his Bifrost-powered axe, why not go to Titan where the rest of the Guardians are? He’s already with Rocket and Groot, so being able to track them down should be relatively simple to do on their end - why not meet up with them again? Why go to Midgard when he could have gone to face off against Thanos BEFORE HE GOT ALL 6 STONES?!? In fact, wouldn’t it make MORE sense to meet up with the rest of the Guardians than Midgard? They know about Thanos, they planned AFTER MEETING THOR to retrieve the Reality Stone - why wouldn’t Thor go back to them on this one?

And that’s just off the top of my head. Go looking in any Infinity War Critical tag, and you will find a thousand more.

If you mean 3 for 3 in terms of profit, definitely. Their upcoming movie outright crashed ticket ordering webpages for hours on end, to the point that to order tickets online, you had to wait your turn. As far as strong writing though? I would argue against that, based off of everything listed above and then some.

Fans on all sides have issues with pretty much every character’s portrayals, actions, and reactions, along with how the plot ultimately progressed. Steve Stans, Tony Stans, Thor Stans, Loki Stans, T’Challa Stans, Scarlet Witch Stans, Guardian Stans, Spider-Stans, Strange Stans, Hulk Stans - a lot of people looked at this film and found it lacking for all of these characters and their arcs, portrayals, their inconsistent capabilities after literally 20 films showing us everything they can do.

So while the Russos have done well financially for the MCU (and admittedly, made Civil War much less of a mess than it ever was in the comics - which is saying something about how absolutely fucked up the comics were), in terms of delivering satisfying conclusions for these characters, they’ve been found lacking again and again. Their idea of groundbreaking character work is to destroy or take away everything they love in absolutes, or to kill off characters to fuel Emotional Pain.

Thor didn’t have to lose everything to have an arc - neither did the Guardians. And while death will inevitably be a part of any Infinity War story, it’s extremely telling that the only deaths that left an impact are two of three that were NOT a result of being dusted - the ones we Know can’t be reversed so easily: Gamora and Loki. Characters that have suffered endlessly and received no happy ending with the people they cherish, after having lost so much already. The only characters dusted that people feel viscerally upset about that I’ve seen was Groot and Shuri, and the latter was only revealed recently in the Twitter campaign posters (and is also complete bullshit to pull on the audience - "randomly” kill off half the world, my ass, you killed off how many people in Wakanda and then some?!? No).

No one else’s death has left as much an impact in a story where half the world dies - and when the primary ending of your tragedy, having been built up to over a goddamn decade of films, leaves mostly a ‘meh’ feeling? You have failed to make people care, and failed as storytellers.

[arcadiaoblivion]

My Thoughts on Who I Think Will (and Won’t) Die in Infinity War

Let’s face it, we all know at least SOMEONE is going to be killed off in Infinity War and/or its sequel.

It’ll be the tenth anniversary of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and as epic as the movie will already be (I mean, the Avengers AND the Guardians of the Galaxy TOGETHER!), the people at Marvel need to do something to keep things fresh and give us, the audience, a shock. We also know that some of the actors’ contracts are pretty much done, so that gives us some good hints as to who may be the one(s) to kick the bucket.

A lot of people think Iron Man and Captain America will be the ones to go (or at least one of them). I agree with that, and I will discuss them. I also want to talk about some other people who I think may be killed off, as well as the characters I don’t think we have to worry about.

WARNING: this post contains spoilers for several films in the MCU. It’s also really freaking longwinded (sorry).

Who I Think is at Risk:

Right away, I thought of Nebula, one of the characters in the Guardians of the Galaxy series. A big part of her story arc is the fact that she was always treated like second best because her sister, Gamora, would always beat her in combat training. Their adoptive father, Thanos, replaced several parts of her body with robotic parts because she kept losing to her sister. Because of this, she resented Gamora and has a grudge against Thanos as well. As of the end of Guardians 2, she has reconciled with her sister and has set out to find and kill Thanos. With all this information in mind, I predict that Nebula will help the Guardians and the Avengers fight Thanos. I think she will either confront him about how he treated her in the past and get killed, or sacrifice herself in some way in order to protect Gamora.

Next is Vision. Vision has one of the Infinity Stones (the Mind Stone) on his freaking forehead. This immediately would make him a target for Thanos. Plus, he is pure of heart (I mean, he’s worthy enough to lift Thor’s hammer, for God’s sake,) so I think he would be willing to sacrifice himself or put himself in harm’s way if he believed it would protect the people he cares about *COUGH COUGH Wanda COUGH* or help defeat Thanos. Also, Paul Bettany has been acting in the MCU since the first Iron Man (for those who don’t know, he was the voice of JARVIS before playing Vision), so his contract is probably coming close to an end. Therefore, I think it’s likely that Vision could die in the infinity war.

Pretty much any of the core Avengers could be in danger. In Tony’s vision in Age of Ultron, he sees all of them lying on the ground, actively dying. This means it’s a possibility that any one of them could die. No one is safe. However, I really doubt all of them will be killed off, probably only a couple will be.

I think it’s pretty likely that Captain America is going to die in Infinity War. Chris Evans has said that once he’s done with Marvel, he’s thinking of stepping away from acting, and he’s stated in the past that he thinks he will be done being Captain America soon. Plus, having Steve Rogers die would have a HUGE impact. Captain America was the first Avenger. Without him, the Avengers might not even exist. His death would send shockwaves through the team, hell, through the world. Plus, his relationships with Bucky Barnes, Sam Wilson, and (despite how rocky things were in Civil War) Tony Stark would make it so much more emotional and hard-hitting. Bucky would be devastated. His best friend, the only thing he has left of his old life before everything went to hell, would be gone. He would be alone. Sam would be heartbroken, his close friend and coworker killed in action. And Tony would shut down. He and Cap have been through so much together. They have been through hell and back, and despite the shit that went down in the fight over the Sokovia Accords (and the fact that Steve knew Bucky had killed Tony’s parents and didn’t tell him), they still care about each other. Cap’s death might be the final nail in the coffin, giving the Avengers and the Guardians the strength needed to kill Thanos. I think it would be the right way for the First Avenger to go out.

Finally, we have Iron Man. The first Iron Man film was the very first instalment in the MCU. Without the success of Iron Man, we wouldn’t have the great film franchise we have today. We owe it all to this guy. However, Robert Downey Jr.’s contract is probably pretty much up, and he might not want to keep doing the same thing he’s been doing for ten years. He’s not getting any younger, either - he’s in his early fifties, so it’s not like he can keep being Iron Man forever. This would probably be the best possible time for him to go out of the MCU. Plus, much like the possible death of Captain America would, the death of Tony Stark would change EVERYTHING for the other members of the Avengers. Rhodey would lose his close friend, heck, the guy who helped him walk again. Steve would lose the friend that he cares about deeply despite differences they’ve had in the past. Bruce would lose the guy he loved talking about science and working in the lab with. Peter Parker would lose his mentor, the guy he looked up to the most. The death of Tony Stark would be both the end of an era and a new beginning for everyone, and I think that’s the direction that Marvel Studios will take.

People Who I Think Might Die, But Probably Won’t

Another theory I have is that maybe someone at SHIELD will die. Either Nick Fury or Maria Hill, I’m not sure which. (Then again, maybe Marvel wouldn’t go down this route because it would take away too much from the main plot, or it would make it so too many people were dying.) Still, it would be a heavy blow to the Avengers, like Phil Coulson’s death in the first Avengers film was, and it would help show just the gravity of what they’re dealing with.

Another Guardian who could die is Rocket. I don’t think he actually will, in fact I doubt it heavily. However, if he did, I imagine him dying trying to protect Groot. In the first Guardians film, Groot sacrificed himself to save his friends, which was a very emotional and impactful scene, especially for Rocket. Of course, Groot came back as Baby Groot  (now Teen Groot in Infinity War) and Rocket became a kind of father figure to him. Again, I don’t actually think Rocket will meet his end in Infinity War, but theoretically, if he did, I think it would be trying to save Groot from a blast or something. I think he would tell Groot something sweet or inspirational (and slightly sarcastic, knowing Rocket) before dying that would give Groot the strength to continue fighting without him. This probably won’t happen, but maybe they’ll do a fake-out similar to this. Who knows!

People I Don’t Think We Need to Worry About

 Spiderman. Peter Parker is the newest addition to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and he seems to be a fan favourite from the get-go. Tom Holland is signed on to do several more movies, so I really don’t think we have to worry about our friendly neighbourhood Spiderman getting killed.  Plus, I think Tony would be careful about protecting Peter from harm and making sure nothing happens to him. That being said, that doesn’t mean he’s safe from being injured in some way, and IF THANOS LAYS A SINGLE PURPLE SAUSAGE FINGER ON MY LIL CINNAMON ROLL I’M GONNA-

I said earlier that any of the core Avengers could be at risk. However, I don’t really know if Black Widow, Hawkeye, Thor, or the Hulk will die. I’m kind of on the fence about them. I don’t think we know these characters well enough that their deaths would hit us as hard as if, say, Captain America died, so I don’t know if Marvel is going to go in that direction. Plus, Thor is literally a god. And Clint has a wife and three kids, come on, they can’t be heartless enough to let anything happen to him!

Scarlet Witch, the Falcon, and War Machine. Aka the New Avengers. These guys are still relatively new, so I kind of doubt that anything will happen to them. Besides, if some of the - shall we say- bigger Avengers die, we’re going to need these three to help keep things going in the future. I don’t think we need to worry about them dying.

The Guardians of the Galaxy. There’s still a Guardians 3 in the works, so odds are they’re going to be fine (except for possibly Rocket, but again, I don’t personally believe that will actually happen.)

Ant-Man. Production has just begun for Ant-Man and the Wasp, set to come out in July 2018, so if Ant-Man has a new movie coming out after Infinity War, he’s obviously gonna be fine.

Doctor Strange. Like Spiderman, Stephen Strange is a relatively new addition to the MCU, and Benedict Cumberbatch is signed on to do at least one more solo film, so I don’t think we have to worry about him.

...And that’s about it! What are your opinions on the subject? Feel free to message me or send me an ask if you want to talk about it or if I made a mistake in my post or something.