#the suckening meta

[malevolententity]

Staring at you with my big eyes

(I know nothing about vtm aside from the suckening but it really interests me and I'd love to hear about about edward and the vampire micro politics)

HELLO!!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR ASKING!!! WELCOME TO VAMPIRE POLITICS 101 EDWARD TWILIGHT IS SO SO FASCINATING TO ME and i have no idea if charlie did any of it on purpose because i dont know if he actually looked that deep into the politics of vtm to plan for any of this.

how do i start this. youre getting an essay. dear lord this is going under a cut. because i gotta explain the normal politics before i can get into why edward politics is so fun for me personally.

everything below comes with a massive banner of context that i have been obsessed with vtm for a literal 13 years. so i have a lot of opinions on how stuff can be explained mechanics and lore wise. that charlie might not agree with and/or might not have been intending the read to be because we are two different storytellers.

SO in world of darkness (the book setting) there are three main political parties. there are the Camarilla which are traditionalists who created the rules of the masquerade and they want kindred society to be united and for there to be a hierarchy. this is the governing body that charlie has implemented and plays around with. then there are Anarchs who obey the general masquerade because they recognize its usefulness but they do not believe in a true hierarchy and bending the knee to The Prince of a city. and then theres the Sabbat who think the masquerade is stupid and think that kindred should live openly and blatantly rule over humans.

charlies camarilla is so interesting from the get go because queens are not a thing. thats a charlie thing. so were already off to a fun micro politics of what the fuck? hey charlie? is The Queen part of the inner circle and the head of the camarilla of the entire world? and you just invented a title? bro? because why would she as just prince of LA be called queen? female princes are still princes. so i work under the assumption that she is part of the main governing body for the entire world camarilla not just LA. because normal princes live in their cities. if she lives in fucking romania in umber castle shes not just a normal prince.

so within the camarilla theres a bunch of jobs but the main ones charlie plays with is primogen, sheriff, and prince. and he does a decent job at explaining them. primogen are voices of their clan. they are the most powerful person in the clan in a given city and serve to represent the needs of the clan within the camarilla. not every clan gets a primogen as it depends on if theres enough camarilla kindred in that clan to warrant needing a primogen. the sheriff is the front facing enforcer of the rules. who is elected by the primogen and prince together. and then the prince is The Prince. they are like a dictator mayor. they are the one who creates and expands the masquerade rules of the city to make sure that mortals do not become aware of vampires. princes are typically not elected; they come about from coups or if the old one wants to abdicate they endorse/instate a new prince.

theres also keepers, harpys, scourges, seneschals, heralds, archons, and justicars. but explaining those does not help with my why edward is fascinating so i can go into those a different time. also because we only have maybe two examples of those within suckening.

SO IN ANARCHS which charlie never brings up to my memory theres a lot less official titles! you have the Barons which function similarly to a prince but they will kill you if you say that; hate princes with a passion. cities depending on their size will have a number of barons who control neighborhoods/sections of the city. they all work together but compete with each other to maintain their footholds in the city and to resist the princes rule. and then the other main one is Proctors who just keep tabs on whos in the territory and doing what. which can function as mini sheriffs. 

so using LA as an example edward rules over the entire city but unless he killed all the anarchs in the city the specific territory of santa monica has a baron who also imposes rules on the kindred of that specific territory.

and then we have the Sabbat who charlie also never brings up. who also have their own chain of command in cities but also the world at large! the most important titles here for this talk are Bishop and Archbishop. a Bishop is going to be akin to a primogen it is a title that is given to a powerful kindred who then leads a large group of sabbat within a section of the city. bishops answer to archbishops. and an Archbishop is akin to a prince. they are the sabbat ruler of an entire city. every sabbat within that city ultimately answers to them.

a big thing with the Sabbat sect as a whole is they do not care about the masquerade. they commit mass masquerade breaches be it mass turning events or just having them run around in the wild doing whatever not caring if kine see a vampire using their powers or feeding.

Edward Twilight is a serial masquerade breacher. like theres no way around it. like yes he is a toreador so he is going to want and demand the attention of everyone. but theres a line. and one of those lines is mass ghouling an entire city and making a large portion of the mortals in your city look like you. that is an insane massive breach that is going to get the inquisition/grimslayers to raid your city because thats not normal. that is a massive red flag that vampires are there. that is a thing that only sabbat would do.

because even with charlies camarilla being his own spin on it and not 100% by the book. i can not bring myself to accept that a genuine camarilla member would pull the shit edward does. like it does not make sense to me. and thats slightly compounded by the fact that camarilla traditionally; even the toreadors; want to stay hidden. they do not like mortals knowing vampires exist they LOATHE cellphones because cellphones put a camera in everyones pocket and is the easiest way to make the entire world aware of your existence and status as a monster. and then your meet your final death when the city gets raided. camarilla toreadors chase fame and beauty but theres still a line ya know.

a sabbat on the other hand? loves a cellphone. doesn't give a shit if the world is aware of them because being known isnt a threat, its the goal. it is the goal to have humans aware that vampires are real and you can be one or to serve one.

so with all that said. i genuinely believe that Edward Twilight is an Archbishop of the Sabbat who has been playing the longcon with the Camarilla. because he is involved in the camarilla, theres no denying that. he has underlings that are clearly real camarilla and work in camarilla terms and conditions. but all of his goals that we know about just scream sabbat to me. he has been vying  for the prince position trying to get that endorsement from shilo to further legitimize himself and his hold on the city, that is a fact. but the amount and types of breaches he commits are the kind no right minded camarilla would commit and he does not have an affliction that drives him to madness. so to me he comes off as a sabbat agent trying to destabilize the cams.

theres also the factor of viv and vex. traditionally in VTM, clans are predisposed to certain political sects, with special cases made for individual vampires. in lore this is because the different sects will consider entire clans just a walking masquerade breach that they don’t want to deal with. so having them be a part of the sect is rare and special. now every storyteller handles this differently some are rigid by the book and some just do what fits best for the story they want to tell. charlie ran this in v20 and by v20 lore tzimisce are purely sabbat because they are an inherent breach. they are a clan who makes weird meatball creatures and turn themselves into literal flesh monster that barely look human. and in v5 tzimisce as a whole are welcome to anarchs but only individually welcome to camarilla. charlie mixes a bit of v20 and v5 because he read them both and touchstones are a thing so we know he pulled some v5 things. but with the shit viv and vex do i just find it hard to believe theyre genuine cam who respect the masquerade. those are edwards fellow weird little sabbat guys who are helping him destabilize and take over. they made edward sexy. they are the ones performing the procedures to turn ghouls and bloodbonded vampires alike into edward clones. that is the most sabbat ass shit ive ever heard of besides mass turning events and weird meatball snuff films

edward twilight is fascinating to me regardless of if m right. because knowing charlie and his love of bits and “well wouldn’t that be silly” it is likely that edward to him is just a genuine camarilla toreador primogen who climbed the ladder and his version of the camarilla are a little more lax in some regards. or because of the bloodbonding the other primogen and deacon won’t go against edward and his mass breaches.

but for me it is so much more interesting to think of edward as an archbishop who decided to infiltrate the camarilla god knows how long ago to become a prince and then probably climb up even higher into the Inner Circle because literally too many details line up and point at that being a possibility for me to ignore as coincidence.

because we do know that this campaign was supposed to be about the political climb until they all started playing and charlie realized that the boys ended up being more interested in the relationships and personal mysteries than an actual political power struggle against each other campaign. so i KNOW he had to do some amount of research into the camarilla i just dont know how far into the other sects that research went to have him genuinely on purpose make edward a sabbat.

and i cant wait for season 2 to drop eventually so i can learn if i put in waaaay too much thought into all this because i know too much about this system. or if charlie actually did an insane amount of research on vtm politics and i picked up on clues that are genuinely there LOL

i really hope this made sense and you enjoyed it! it’s like 4 pages long and if theres anything in here that needs clarifying i will gladly talk even more or explain other things within vtm because this is my favorite system and i do Not know how to be normal about it :D 

[neoncat666]

hello i am insane about the suckening if you would like to theorize and talk about it with me 👍

yeah you could say im really normal over it. vague spoilers for ep 1 and 2 and more direct spoilers about ep 3

Mind you my knowledge of vtm is very limited due to the last time i even thought about it was years ago and i didn't even play it but oh my god they really got me researching on shit again and ive never wanted to see their character sheets sooo bad

i'm obviously a big fan of Arthur but like i remember when they first introduced shilo i genuinely thought it was a timeskip after emizel fuckin died and thats why they mentioned how similar they looked only to be shot out back with them outright saying theyre related and everyone has made that connection except shilo. theyre relationship facinates me so much cause they emphasize how "identical" they look so its not just a brotherly relationship but a twin relationship as well but also what the fuck lmao??? im excited to see where that goes

speaking of brothers what the fuck Arthur has (had he's probably dead now) a younger brother ??????? and on my second listen through I realize that Charlie explicitly mentions fire along with blood for the nightmare so somehow Arthur lost his younger brother that may or not be related to fire and blood and literally has nightmares every night. somehow for a loner Arthur has a weird amount of ties to other characters /j but like the fact all these characters have being seperated from their brother/family in common is kind of funny. but it also kind of brings into question on if this loss will affect arthur and how he treats the boys. he's made it clear that he's not going to actively stop them from doing stupid shit and getting hurt but he still tried to make sure that they weren't to be targeted during this supposed ambush that seems about to happen. he cares for the vampiric rules enough but also is actively fighting against vampires in general. like its easy to say he wants them alive since he's responsible for emizel and they're both the queen's sons but he's also said he doesn't care what happens to them so im curious and what he full motives are. like more of a meta thing but grizzly making sure he focuses more on the scent of an animal to feed from rather than a supernatural because emizel was right there was something. arthur says otherwise but he wants these two to stay alive whether so he can use them or not cause it seems that he has a group or even just a person who can help him if things get worse around here anyway but he doesn't just let it happen. i also wonder who this new person he's more focused on is cause it could be a few people and i wonder who the person he originally came for is too

also i keep saying arthur n deacon are toxic yaoi and when we met magnus i said that arthur now has doomed yaoi so good on him

[howdytheresam]

why am i exposed to so much media but not enough time to watch it. currently have:

catch up with qsmp streamers

finish meta runners

continue life steal smp

catch up with qsmp the suckening

continue watching emh

consume other suggested media

[dreamsparkle]

Sensualist Wells

For HarriscoFest2019 and the prompt Sensualist Wells.

Sensualist (noun) -

A person devoted to physical, especially sexual, pleasure.

Cisco Ramon / Harry Wells

NC-17 / NSFW

Dub!con kinda

This is my understanding of the prompt so sorry if I misunderstood. :) Please keep negativity to yourself please.

Harry's mind has always behaved like a well oiled machine. Nothing had ever slowed it down. 

Not even Tess. Being near her made his brain work twice as fast. He wanted so much to impress her, not just with his equations and designs  but with his plans for the future, to make her happy for as long as he is able.

Not even Jesse. Her first smile as a baby and his brain didn't stutter once. Instead it spread out every conceivable threat that could possibly harm this little treasure and how to neutralise it in an instant. He knew he would die rather than let anyone hurt a hair on her head.

But then there was Cisco. And he seemed to strangely have a different effect. Cisco was like an error in fluid code. To look at any part of him trapped Harry in a loop with no exit. 

He would be working on a design and be distracted by a flick of satin, black curls. His gaze drawn over against his will to trace along the pretty slopes that Cisco had so carefully crafted. 

It was just hair. Harry told himself annoyed. Everyone had it. In fact Iris had some that was very similar and he never found himself looking at her hair in any special way.

And instead of working, he found himself, for the next hour, trying to identify using logic what the difference was. Why Cisco's hair caught his attention when Iris' didn't. 

Why when he followed the curve around Cisco's ear he felt the strange bliss of taking a gentle turn in a car on a scenic ride and that beautiful sense of gliding.

---

Cisco wasn't exactly special to look at. Among even his group of friends, Harry doubted in a survey anyone would place him at the top in terms of looks. Even Cisco himself.

Yet Harry kept looking, despite logic.

If pressed, he would have to say Cisco's eyes were the most captivating part of him, if anything. Though he wouldn't be able to confirm why. 

They were brown, like the majority of people. Not especially large or small. If he were being unscientific he could compare them to chocolate. Not necessarily the color, though that too, but mainly the texture. That soft solid that melts under your touch. Cisco's eyes were soft and so much kinder than Harry deserved.

With that apt metaphor stored away he tried to get back to work. But now he had given himself a craving and he really wanted something soft and sweet, that melted.

Not something he eats very often. He doesn't really have feelings for the candy either way but he really wanted some now.

He went over to Cisco's secret stash, relieved he wasn't in the lab today. Underneath a pack of twizzlers and between two lollipops was a Hershey.

He brought it back to his desk and stared at it for a moment. Wondering where his sanity had left him. Still he opened it. Put a piece in his mouth. And rather than just chew it, he tried to savour it, for once.

It was soft; rapidly disappearing on his tongue. Turning creamy at the edges. He swallowed down the excess. Sugar so sweet, it was making his mouth water. He licked at what nub of chocolate was left and was overcome with the sudden idea of how it much better it would taste coming off of mocha colored skin. 

Harry inhaled the last bit in alarm, refusing to finish that thought. Knowing where it led. His cheeks were burning and he was left with a bitter taste in his mouth. He shoved the rest of the chocolate bar in his desk drawer out of sight. Easier then to erase the memory.

His heart was beating too fast and he was shamefully turned on. The feeling buzzing under his skin, painful and unwanted.

He stood up and went for a walk. Some Big Belly Burger might get rid of this leftover flavor.

---

Cisco was glaring at him. He'd probably correctly guessed who had stolen his chocolate and was showing how he knew by displaying a lollipop between two lips.

Joke was on him. Cisco's lips were sinful. Harry couldn't really deny that. Harry had thin chapped lips while Cisco's were like peaches and so easily turned red.

A full grown man should not be eating a lollipop. 

He was so unashamed about it. Harry supposed everyone he met liked him too much to pick on him for it. And it didn't look remotely feminine like Harry would have guessed.  In fact, when he was hacking for the Flash with fervor and that lollipop stick swung from one side of his mouth to the other so he could speak, Harry was reluctantly reminded of a cowboy with a toothpick clenched between unbroken enamel, all ready to fire.

He wasn't even putting on a show, really. It was a lollipop. He was eating it. End of story. Like he had no idea.

He probably didn't. Cisco. So modest. So unassuming. It irritated Harry to no end because Cisco was brilliant. So utterly mind blowingly beyond expectation. And he received less than a tenth of the recognition that he rightfully deserved.

He fought for credit when it came to who named the meta of the week. But single handedly discovering the plan to stop said meta in his tracks and it was suddenly all blushes and "Team effort, guys." 

Harry despised it.

The lollipop taunted him too. Stupid to be jealous. Yet he wanted to lick into that mouth and drag along his tongue, all dance like. Cisco's oral fixation was evident a mile wide. Harry bet his mouth was super sensitive. He bet if he sucked on one of those lips just right Cisco would shudder against him.

The real Cisco, instead, was reading something boring. His eyes were staring far off into the screen, expression blank while he rolled the lollipop over the tip of his pointed tongue. Truly bored then.

Harry broke to temptation and walked over before he could talk himself out of it.  He pushed the hand holding the lollipop out of the way.

"Harry, what?" Cisco said shocked as Harry leaned closer. 

"May I?" He asked but not giving anytime to respond, licked his way into Cisco's mouth. The younger man breathed in shocked but didn't stop him. Maybe too surprised. 

He immediately chased the taste of cherry. He captured Cisco's tongue and sucked on it like a treat. The noise Cisco made then was distressed but he still didn't move to push Harry away. Nor did he move closer.

His fingers found themselves twined in those sooty strands. And then he was kissing down from his mouth. His teeth biting into Cisco's jawline. Not too hard but hard enough Cisco maked a choked sound.

He pulled back. Cisco's eyes were open and so shocked. His mouth red from abuse and bite mark stood out sharply. He was so fucking hot and Harry could try and explain it forever but Harry knew his attraction wasn't normal. He shouldn't be this affected by a kiss.

Even now all he could think about was kissing him again and not complex plans on how that could come about. But thoughts of flashes of the heat under plush lips. Harry's fingers followed the curve from buttery soft hair down the warm skin of his neck. Cisco shivered.

He forced himself to let go, then stepped back. He escaped the room as quick as he could. Cisco only attempt to stop him a soft, "Harry."

---

Cisco gave up trying to mention the kiss after the third time Harry changed the topic. Though he kept watching Harry now and that was bad because Harry was still getting lost in thought about the most beautiful parts of him. He was quickly discovering that was every part of him.

His hand wrapped around a mug. A wicked quirk of an eyebrow. A flash of dorky teeth. A flamboyant wave of an arm to express a point. 

Those arms were gonna be the death of him. The cheap cotton of his comic shirts riding up over his belly and becoming tight over his upper arms as he stretched. Harry just wanted to touch. Wanted to get rid of that rough fabric and replace it with something deserving like silk.

---

Harry was working on something, for once not distracted because Cisco had gone to the lake for a picnic with the rest of the team. Harry hadn’t even seen him today and he was able to get on with some blessed projects he’d been procrastinating on.

That was turned on its head when late afternoon Cisco portalled into the lab and he was drenched through. Still dripping water from whatever had flooded him.

"Don't laugh." Cisco threatened when he saw him. "And no comments. Barry and Caitlin have already made plenty. Thank you."

Like Harry's reaction would be to laugh at this.

Cisco's clothes were plastered to him. His tiny white shorts were all but see through and dripping water droplets down thick thighs. Harry felt so parched. He swallowed painfully, mouth drier than a desert.

As Cisco left, Harry found himself following, almost compelled. He'd caught up and pressed Cisco against the wall to stop him. This time, Cisco was no longer surprised and kissed back right from the start.

Harry's brain was focused on other things rather than kissing. He licked a droplet from Cisco's throat then sucked hard to get whatever had already sucken beneath the skin. He tasted a bit like salt. Cisco gasped so prettily.

"This is what gets you back to that place again, seriously?" Cisco complained. He writhed as Harry's burning hot hands raised his shirt folded it up so he could feel the bottom of his stomach. The shirt stuck together so easily from being so wet. And Harry's hands were on his hips. 

Then Harry was kneeling. 

"Harry." Cisco said shocked.

The hands down to his thighs and his mouth replaced them on his stomach. Sucking a spot shiny with water. Cisco felt dizzy from the flush as all the blood in his body flooded down.

Those fingers gripped his thighs. Harry admired the give of them. Felt the give of them with his tongue and teeth as Cisco cried out above him. 

Hands were in his hair, yanking. But he wasn't about to be torn away from what he had been fantasizing about for months. Not when Cisco was responding so beautifully.

He pressed his entire face against that reaction that was tenting Cisco's shorts. Sucked more water from that wet, white fabric. Mouthing at what was hard and purely Cisco underneath. Because he wasn't wearing boxers. Of course he didn't. Why would he wish to help Harry's sanity any.

He was basically holding Cisco up now. His knees had gone weak and Harry was holding him against the wall by his grip on his thighs alone. He couldn't let go. 

So instead he almost broke his teeth undoing the top button of those shorts with his mouth. But it was worth it because now he got access to all that bare skin.

Cisco's cock rose to meet him. Mesmerising by the way it twitched. He pressed a long open mouthed kiss along the side of it. Cisco was making noise. Harry wasn't sure if it was English, Spanish or something not so comprehensible.

Dragging his tongue up the hot and hard silky skin, he wanted to suck. Lined up his mouth and sunk down. Smelled salty, musky. He was almost drooling from how much his mouth watered. 

Sucking and swallowing around Cisco's cock felt incredible and he didn't stop even when he felt Cisco try and squirm away from him.

He understood when his mouth was suddenly filled as Cisco cum.

Cisco almost fell over and Harry put one hand on his chest to and the other under arm under his bum to hold him up. He didn't release Cisco's cock and continued sucking until the younger really started struggling.

When Harry let go Cisco slid down the wall to the floor and when that wasn't far enough, wiggled to lying down on his back because he didn't have any energy or will to hold himself up anymore. 

Which was fine with Harry. The view was fantastic. Cisco's hair was fanned out like an ink spill. Eyes closed and red lips gasping. Tight shorts were stuck with water halfway down his thighs and his shirt was still rucked up revealing his belly button. His cock spent leading up to it. 

Unable to resist touching, he went for the area of stomach on show, thinking it was the least offensive to Cisco's overwrought senses right now. But was proven wrong when Cisco flinched and a hand pushed him away.

"Harrrryy!" He whined. "Knock it off." He pursed his lips in annoyance and Harry decided to take it as an invitation. Pressed a gentle kiss there.

Cisco didn't look annoyed at that but he looked vulnerable. Like he was trying to figure Harry out.

"You're perfect." Harry told him. It hurt Cisco's modesty and self depreciation of course. He could see it in the slight frown that formed. He wasn't accepting Harry's words anytime soon. But touching him was addictive so hopefully, maybe, he would be allowed to do more of that.

---

Cisco asked some questions, Harry answered as simply and awkwardly as he could and now they were allowed to kiss…and other things too.

Just not at Star Labs. 

That was fine. Harry could be patient but honestly as soon as they were at Cisco's place he would touch as soon as he was allowed. He was so horny all the time and he didn't know how long Cisco would allow this to go on before realising he could do better so he was taking full advantage.

He had to fight Cisco every time. The engineer wasn't used to the attention. Tried to make things equal. That Harry got the same attention too. Like Harry wasn't and hadn't always been a selfish bastard. As he sucked a hickey into a rather generous bubble butt, wondered how anyone could imagine he was getting the short stick out of this deal.

Cisco always caved in first. Once Harry had touched, tasted every part of him and he was raw like a string close to breaking from too many orgasms, Harry did his best to stop his compulsion and just held him close and breathed in the scent from his skin. But it was hard. Even after he was satisfied. Because it wasn't just about sex. It was about comfort. 

Trailing patterns over his skin while he slept. Feeling the slight rises on each breath. His mind jumped at being caught by these slight things. No calculations left to be made but his mind still found it endlessly fascinating. Instead of thought it gave way, for once, to feeling…

...and what he felt was happy.

[malevolententity]

no but im thinking once again about charlies world state for the suckening. because i havent made my personal decisions yet on how much Canon Cities actually matter. because charlie did something really interesting to me personally with using a canon city and then just ignoring absolutely everything established about said city. and that puts me in a very fun play position of jigsawing what i think from WoD canon could still be dubious canon to charlie and what just doesn’t matter at all. and some of that is going to also be influenced by my personal canon state of LA because my LA deviates from official canon because that’s just what happens in world states that are the real world and then white wolf or modiphius or renegade put out something official that just blows up your shit. 

so heres a deranged history lesson on LA canon and where i might pen charlie as diverging from that canon

all cities are contentious on whos sect they belong too but LA is such a special case because it’s constantly flipping like on a literal 10 year cycle since the 90s and its kinda funny. v1 (1991) doesn’t talk about LA to my recollection there isnt an official stance on who controls it at this point. but in v2 (1994) we get our sourcebook in LA that talks about how from like ~1800-1944 LA was a cam city but then from 1944-1994 it has joined the anarch free state and we get a chronicle to explore a crumbling anarch city thats trying to not blow itself up while also trying to establish some sort of barebones government so it doesn’t just turn into a sabbat territory. at this point its kinda up to you what happened!

we then jump to v3 and 2004 with the videogame vampire the masquerade bloodlines! LA is back to being under the camarillas thumb this happened at some point between 1994 and 2003 we are never really told when prince lacroix came in and stomped on everyones shit. just that he did and everyones really mad about it. we then learn about 4 of the anarch barons isaac abrams of hollywood, nines rodriguez of downtown, and the voerman twins of santa monica. there are also 3 named primogen of the city gary golden of the nosferatu, max strauss of the tremere, and alistair grout of the malkavian. there is a shown ventrue and toreador primo but we don’t actually get to learn anything about them theyre ultimately not important. but we learn a lot of guys names! 11 days of insanity happen and the camarilla fall once again and LA turns back to being an anarch free state on october 31st/november 1st of 2004!

it is now v20 january of 2018 LA is once again in a contentious spot for the anarchs. san diego players are invading and looking to instate themselves as prince. there’s a set of hooks and various endings for chronicles mostly surrounding the idea of LA bending to a new prince (vannevar or tara) or being completely taken over by the kuei-jin(1) who have been in the city since 2004. there is an anarch rubble ending proposed but it is the least likely outcome. these plot hooks are part of the source book becketts jyhad diary to help bridge the gap from v20 to v5 which came out in august of 2018.

v5! september of 2018! the source book came out in august and the actual condition of LA is not mentioned. there is the officially produced actual play LA by Night and all of its events are canon to the official world state. LA is in limbo. vannevar thomas won the v20 san diego conflict and has claimed himself as prince of LA. and everyone really hated that and tried really hard to ignore him but his foothold grew. all of the barons and primogen from 2004 are still barons and primogen of their respective territories. and we learn some new ones! but by 2021 vannevar is removed as prince, denounced by the camarilla at large, and presumed to have met his final death. no one whos prince in LA ever has it good. or lasts long. 

now that the canon history lesson is out of the way. i dont know if charlie actually knows any of that lore LMAO. i dont think any of it actually played a part in how he wrote the LA camarilla 

BUT there are a few ways to split hairs on official LA canon still being somewhat real in his world regardless.

first can be that san diego vs LA instead ended with The Queen getting involved and instating herself as prince of LA. rather than vannevar. and the previous barons and primos meeting their ends at some point in this conflict. this ones just because i truly do not see charlie as an actual big long term vtm dweeb. who’d make another teams actual play canon to his actual play even if it is actual official world canon. i don’t think he’d want someone elses actual play world to effect his. 

another is The Queen watching different princes claim LA and then in a few short years routinely getting final death’ed by the anarchs of the city, where she just in 2021 goes “okay. lacroix sucked. vannevar sucked. my city now. this won’t happen to me” and then she gets blown up by the grimslayers in 2023. its a cycle that no prince can ever have a true hold on LA. LA is inherently cursed to consume its princes. it doesn’t explain the primos changing if vannevar is canon but it could easily be twisted that during the riots against vannevar during the second inquisition raiding the city that the primos got caught in the crossfire. because i don’t know how else to make sense of them changing between reigns. because for me at least its hard to imagine the primos getting voted out with the loyalty they command. theyd have to die to change.

i think its also very likely that charlies world state could have The Queen taking charge between 1994 and 2005. this is the most neutral one as it ignores anything stated in v3 to v5 about LA. theres no messy wonderings on barons and primos that exist through those versions, because its just the v2 lore of anarchs are struggling, what nameless person will claim power next? and i think The Queen slots in very nicely here.

to have a definitive answer on what i ultimately believe is dubiously true id have to rewatch the first 5 episodes just to see if during shilo time theres ever a concrete mention of how long The Queen has explicitly ruled over LA because that Does effect all the possible outcomes of dubious canon. and charlie loves to play it fast and loose when it comes to timelines.

i think the most interesting and compelling for me personally would be taking over after vannevar even though i personally don’t enjoy or have vannevars reign being canon in my own world state. but her taking over after vannevar is so fascinating to have the hubris of princes thinking time and time again they wont fall to the curse of LA princes being short lived and then it keeps happening. especially with edward vying for prince and the boys immediately trying to take him down after the queens death. and then killing A Version of him on tv. the themes. the motifs if this timeline is real are just so juicy to me as someone who interacts with official canon. that i think id like to think its this one. 

but most likely she took over by 2004. thats the cleanest diverging point regardless of if you do or dont know the history of LA and the only one that i think can be semi supported within suck canon at this time. with the single line mention that The Queen put emizel into his dads care pretty immediately after birth. and the twins are 18 or 19 so thats gonna be 2004 or 2005. because i dont think she’d put emizel in a city that she doesnt have any control over yet, and theres no mention of emizel moving cities as a kid (to my memory). despite the fun implications of the other two main broad options with her control being newer. 

ultimately none of it is true canon at the time he wrote and recorded suckening last year. i do not think charlie in his marathon week of researching v20 and v5 rules and helping the boys workshop characters. that he looked into canon cities and really paid attention to what happened there and would in theory be happening in 2023 when this was recorded. i think he just picked LA as a city at random and went “imma make some weird guys that fit the archetypes of their clans, yeah okay heres the government” and that was it. maybe with the time since then and season 2 he might do some retroactive stuff with LA official canon but who knows! it seems s2 might be more global focused so digging into LA lore probably won’t happen.

this was just an excuse to think about the various possible histories of LA in charlies world state if somehow official canon is at play. it 99% likely isnt but, i think its fun to try and slot his takes on the world into the preexisting World of Darkness. instead of just only being, idk i might start calling it World of Charlie, i love WoC and trying to make it make sense with my like decade long beliefs on LA because he just HAD to choose a city that has an established official canon. instead of doing like houston, or san francisco, or portland or any other city. literally theres like 4 cities in the entire world that are officially extensively fleshed out and thats LA, New York, Chicago, and London. the rest of the world will Maybe have 3 official line mentions like Prague and Berlin. but no. he picked one of the 4 cities id go crazy about and it wasnt even on purpose. and m so glad he did this to me because its making me think too much. but also. how could he do this to me? its making me think too much.