#the wardens response to DA2 anders

[stop-breaking-my-heart-dragonage]

You ever think about how in spite of knowing their exact locations, the game never gives any indication that templar Carver has reported his mage sibling, Merril (a blood mage) or Anders (an abomination) to his superiors?

I do think about that a lot, even though I tend to ignore the Templar Carver route because I know Warden Carver to be true in my heart and soul... but I totally get the appeal of Templar Carver within DA2's narrative, y'know?

It's so fascinating, really. I've never played a run with Templar Carver, I just can't bring myself to do it, so I know I'm missing out on smaller details of it. From what I do know, this drives me crazy in the best way possible.

Deciding whether to bring him or not to the Deep Roads is such an important choice, not only because it affects his fate, but how it affects his relationship to Hawke. He tells you that he wants to go, he makes it very clear that it's important to him that he goes, too... and Hawke can just leave him behind and it hurts him. I don't think that registers enough with some people just because of how Carver is, like it doesn't matter what Hawke's motivations are [staying behind for his safety, not wanting to bring him, thinking someone should stay with Leandra, etc] it still hurts him because it tells him that Hawke doesn't need him, and Carver wants to be needed.

And yes, there are other contributing factors to why he joins the templars, but it doesn't matter what your relationship is to him, it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't turn Hawke or his companions in.

Sure, the meta reason is it's a video game and you're playing the main character. You're never in any actual danger of being captured by templars, and you're not going to lose your companions to them that easy.

But if we look at it through the narrative and Carver's character, that's when it gets interesting. You can max out his rivalry and be an utter asshole to him [there's a point where you can call him a brat and mock him for being stuck in your shadow, like Hawke can be real cruel about it] but it doesn't matter, you're still his sibling. He even makes a remark about how you might not know what that means [referring to leaving him behind] but he does. He refuses to kill Hawke in the end when Meredith makes the order, too.

Which can I just point out that Hawke has the option to let Bethany die in the end if she's with the circle and they side with the templars? Just saying, Carver NEVER does that no matter what, but Hawke has the option to betray Bethany like that and it's fucked and interesting and it makes me want to eat my chair-

As for Merrill and Anders, I think he knows that if he turns either of them in, then the chances of Hawke being brought in as well skyrocket. They're all friends, they're in the same group... bring one in, and you'll probably get the other two.

I also think Carver just genuinely likes Merrill. Yes, I'm a Carver/Merrill shipper, so I have a bias, but even if you remove anything romantic from their dynamic I believe that's true. Of all the companions, Merrill is the only one who doesn't make fun of him, or find him annoying, in party banters. He never snaps back at her, like he's never defensive with her, he's just a little awkward and nice.

Like, HE'S SO NICE TO HER! He tries to find common ground with her! She asks him about "swording" and he's taken aback by her saying he's good at it, but you KNOW that if someone like Anders asked him the same question, he's be all, "shut up, you're stupid, stop talking to me >:["

Think back to that banter Carver can have with Aveline post-act 1 where they're talking about how the guard wasn't the right place for him [hard disagree with you there, Aveline] and Carver says he was a bit of a tit, wasn't he.... and every companion will agree except Merrill. She doesn't say anything, whereas other companions like Anders will be like "ugh maker YES" and if you have a purple Hawke, they'll go on to other ways Carver was a tit like?? I think Carver and Merrill got along and he doesn't want to turn her in because she was nice to him! And she's a blood mage! He knows what will happen to her if the templars get ahold of her! He doesn't want to see her made tranquil or killed!

At that point, he's witnessed what bad blood mages can do, assuming you've brought him along for those quests, but even so. He knows Merrill isn't like that and he likes her, so of course he's not going to turn her in despite that being his literal duty.

Then there's Anders who Carver doesn't like. If you're in a romance with him, Carver will tell him that's why he doesn't turn him in but c'mon Carver, you know that's not the only reason. My theory is Carver may not like Anders and he knows the man's got a spirit of justice inside of him... but Anders also runs a free clinic. If he's ever taken in by templars, then so many people [including a LOT of Fereldan refugees] will be without free health care and will suffer for it. I think in Carver's eyes, Anders might be irritating but he doesn't more good than harm. Carver knows first hand how shitty refugees and poorer people are treated in Kirkwall. Anders' clinic is the one place they can go for help and actually get it, and he's not going to be the one to take that away because the templars say "magic bad."

So yeah, I'm not as informed about the Templar Carver route, but I do think about how if I did do that route, he wouldn't betray Hawke or their companions no matter what and what that says about him.

[witsserviceablesubstitute]

The reasons I love the bug where Zevran can rock up in DA2 and DAI's war table mission despite the player having chosen to kill him in DAO is because I remember the unbridled glee gamers had at killing him for flirting with their male Warden.

The reason I dream of Fenris, Anders, and Isabela receiving equitable consideration and dignity in discourse is because I remember the response to their characters outside progressive bubbles.

Anders had a whole homophobic manifesto written about him and sent to DA2's head writer (who's gay btw). Gamers would be proud of handing Fenris back to his slave owner because Fenris was 'difficult'. (Of course the recently escaped slave is prickly and angry). Certain fans still enjoy telling you how they kill 'the terrorist' on every Anders post, evidently because of his actions, transparently because he's a mentally unwell queer "SJW" they feel vindicated in killing. Any mention of Isabela must also apparently include slut-shaming when promiscuity is a fine response to being a former child bride who's free of their cruel and possessive husband. Isabela fearing commitment and being sexually open is not an invitation for dehumanization. I play DA2 with the polyam mod, so I could be wrong, but I always felt Isabela and PurpleHawke were well matched there anyway.

We've come far in terms of accepting diversity in videogame storytelling, but cycles of controversy around queer romance, diversity, and sex in videogames is an old one. The difference being that the industry has mostly stopped catering to conservative and contemptuous discourse now and for that I'm glad.

[legoprime]

I've seen some sadness about the fact that anyone who plays The Veilguard first, or even just sees the promotional material before playing the first three games, isn't going to experience the surprise Solas reveal in Inquisition. I totally understand that, but also wanted to share my perspective and experience as an Anders Fan who played Inquisition first.

I got into DAI shortly after it came out; I had a mutual who was super into DA who got me interested, and when I asked if it was okay to just play that one they assured me it was fine. First playthrough had me hooked, and I played through a couple more times before I started wanting to customize a worldstate.

I'm not actually a huge gamer so I got on the DA wiki and started reading about DAO and DA2 to see if I wanted to play them, or if I just wanted to make up some stuff in the Keep. When I found out Anders was a companion AND a love interest in DA2 I lost my fucking mind.

See, I already knew what he did. I'd listened to all those banters and conversations about what happened in Kirkwall, but with zero context of the first two games I hadn't really put it together that he was, like, an actual befriendable character for Hawke in DA2.

This changed everything: I HAD to play the first two games because I HAD to romance that mage. Literally all I knew about him was that he blew up a Chantry (true), betrayed Hawke (false), and was responsible for the Mage-Templar War (also false). I love a villain and a heartbreak though and by god I wanted to break my Hawke's heart.

I made myself play DAO first to establish a Warden, then dove into DA2 with wild abandon. Folks, I already had a Hawke/Anders playlist at this point and I hadn't even met him properly yet. When I finally did meet him and he fucking started flirting with me two conversations in I was lost forever.

I could write several paragraphs detailing how playing DA2 and friendmancing Anders completely changed my perspective on his character and how he was portrayed in DAI, but I'll just summarize it and say it was not the villain heartbreak arc I anticipated. When the end credits rolled I was wrecked emotionally, but I never, ever once felt betrayed by him, and he lives on with my Hawke who will love him forever.

Obviously your mileage may vary (I say about one of the most controversial characters in DA history) but whether or not you like Anders isn't actually the point of this post: the point is if I hadn't learned about him in DAI, I don't know if I would've been inspired to play DAO and DA2. As I said, I'm not a huge gamer; it was the story and the character that inspired me to play, and now I've played all three games many times and am thoroughly invested in the series.

So while it is sad that brand new DA players probably aren't going to be surprised by the Solas reveal in DAI, there are absolutely going to be people who jump in at The Veilguard, find out this guy was romanceable in a previous game, and utterly lose their shit over that. And I think that's beautiful.

[transandersrights]

Bioware's dislike of the mage rebellion

I really enjoyed Absolution, but it continues to immensely frustrate me that people writing for Bioware refuse to write pro-rebellion mages. Qwydion is a "rebel mage" - whose introductory line about the topic is that she isn't actually a rebel. She's a mercenary who pretends to care about the rebellion because people pay more for a cause. It annoyed me, but also got me thinking:

Since Anders, there have been no (afaik) pro-rebellion mages in major roles in Dragon Age media - and very few pro-rebellion characters have ever been portrayed in a favourable light.

Major mage characters since the start of the mage rebellion (I'm counting from the end of DA2), excluding comics/short stories/Tevinter Nights:

Rhys (Asunder). He starts as a Libertarian who defects to the Aequitarians because of disagreements with a pro-rebellion mage. He votes in favour of mages leaving the Circles, but he's not exactly happy about it.

Felassan (Masked Empire). Not particularly concerned with the rebellion. Definitely has other priorities - the Circle can't really touch him.

Valya (Last Flight). The whole premise behind her existence in the novel (I haven't finished it yet) is that she doesn't want to fight in the rebellion. She would rather die as a Warden than take her chances as a rebel.

Vivienne (Inquisition). We know how this one goes. Pro-Circle, fervently anti-rebellion.

Solas (Inquisition). Not pro-Circle, but he's more apostate than rebel and more *gestures at his whole deal* than apostate.

Dorian (Inquisition). Tevinter, with little to no stakes in the rebellion. Will specifically voice his doubts about whether a full alliance with the mage rebellion is actually a good idea.

Mage Inquisitor (Inquisition). Can absolutely hold anti-Circle and pro-rebellion views. Only a Trevelyan mage Inquisitor can have been a rebel, though.

Qwydion (Absolution). As discussed above, more of a mercenary than a rebel and her only comment on the matter is stating that she isn't one.

Saphira (Absolution). Again, a Tevinter mage with no real stake in the rebellion. Was seemingly in Ferelden during Inquisition, but makes no comment on the rebellion.

And what about the narrative's general treatment of mage characters, particularly mage rebels? Well, it's not good. People have already discussed at length that Anders is almost universally demonised in post-DA2 Dragon Age media that mentions him, but he's not the only one.

The most fervent mage rebels in Asunder are Adrian and Fiona - the former is generally discredited as a scary radical who alienates people with her actions, and the latter is portrayed largely as foolish/weak in Inquisition (I disagree, but the narrative of Inquisition has little time for it). The mage rebellion in Inquisition is seen as a terrible, dangerous group destroying the region just as much as the Templars and for just as bad a reason.

More recent Dragon Age entries are also more generally anti-blood magic - no blood mage companions in Inquisition, no specialisation, characters who will speak against it frequently (most notably Hawke), and a blood mage villain in Absolution. Not to mention that Absolution also inadvertently reinforces the "necessity" of Harrowings by showing that Rezaren failed his.

And that isn't even the end of it!! There's a general narrative arc in Dragon Age which serves to validate the Chantry view of mages - the Blight was (seemingly) caused by Tevinter mages. The elven gods were just powerful mages - and they were slavers just like in Tevinter (making our only two examples of mage-dominated societies also slave-based). Mage companions deceive or betray you, their actions responsible/anticipated to be responsible for hundreds of deaths in a way that isn't the case for other former companions. The mage who found the cure for tranquility accidentally killed everyone in the city. From the Chantry boom onwards, 3/5 of our biggest in-game antagonists/bosses have been mages. If we're counting Absolution, that brings us up to 4/6.

This means that the general message of recent Dragon Age isn't just a disdain for the rebellion and its participants, but also a general lean towards saying that the rebellion should never have happened in the first place - because the Templars are right. Mages are Bad.

This probably isn't much of a revelation for a lot of people, but it stands completely in contrast with how I (and a lot of people) understand mage-related conflicts in Dragon Age. How Bioware have managed to set up a compelling narrative showing oppression+attempts to deconstruct it and then decided that no one should resist it (and if they do, they're never good people) is just.......what.

[sapphim]

Here are (to the best of my knowledge) all the Queen Anora mentions (and related Prince-Consort Warden mentions) that appear (or should appear but don't) in DA2.

The "Hero of Ferelden" codex entry, obtained at the start of Act 1, will read, if the Warden married Anora: "After ending the Blight, the Hero of Ferelden was wed to Queen Anora—he now bears the title of prince-consort."

In Anders' Act 1 "Tranquility" quest, Lirene says of either Alistair or a ruling Cousland, when questioned: "Only Fereldan Grey Warden I've heard of is sitting on the throne." If you talk down the threatening refugees outside Lirene's, they will end the conversation with "Maker bless the rule of our King Alistair" if Alistair is king and "Maker bless the rule of our Queen Anora" otherwise.

In Aveline's Act 1 "A Friend in the Guard" cutscene, if Cousland married Anora, Aveline should say of him: "A good family name. I've heard very little about him. He'll find a voice or be left behind." However, the line preceding that, "I loved that life, but there's a new king for a new Ferelden," only plays if Alistair is king, so the line is inaccessible.

When questioned about his past association with the Hero of Ferelden, Bodahn will say, if Cousland married Anora: "I hear that the hero is married to the queen, now. Fancy that! A Grey Warden ruling Ferelden!"

If Anora is queen, the bartender at the Blooming Rose should say, "The queen of Ferelden just made a state visit to Rivain. Can't imagine why. Not like Rivain's buying dogs." The plot flag, however, is bugged.

Corff, the bartender at the Hanged Man, has some niche gossip: "I heard the Hero of Ferelden married Queen Anora, but is keeping an elven lover. Scandalous" and "You hear about King Alistair of Ferelden? He has an elven mistress. Hope his queen never finds out."

The codex entry "A Study of the Fifth Blight, Vol. 2," which can be obtained in Act 2, is bugged to not fill out properly, and is missing at least one possible landsmeet outcome (Alistair kills Loghain, Anora and Cousland wed). If it did work, then depending on the worldstate, it would read: "Furthermore, the Landsmeet bore witness to the betrothal of Queen Anora to Alistair Theirin, the lost son of Maric," "Furthermore, the Landsmeet bore witness to the betrothal of Queen Anora to Teyrn Bryce Cousland's youngest son, who was one of the two Grey Wardens to survive Ostagar," or "Furthermore, the Landsmeet granted the vacant throne to Anora, widow of King Cailan."

If Alistair is a Grey Warden, you will receive his codex entry after meeting him in the Act 2 climax, which contains the line: "Rumor has it that he is an heir to the Fereldan throne, but that he turned it down in deference to Queen Anora, daughter to the traitorous Teyrn Loghain."

In Aveline's Act 3 "Questioning Beliefs" cutscene, she says of a Cousland married to Anora: "If the current king is wrong for the position, well, he's a Warden. They don't live long." If Alistair is on the throne and in an active romance with a Warden he is not married to, she says: "I understand King Alistair has proven adequate, although the queen seems to allow him certain… liberties in his company." This plays even if he is not married to Anora, although it shouldn't.

In Sebastian's Act 3 "Faith" quest, Leliana says of the Hero of Ferelden, if he married Anora and doesn't have an active romance with her: "He is a good king."

In King Alistair's Act 3 cameo, if Alistair is married to Anora and the Warden is his mistress, in response to Teagan's "You-know-who should already have returned from her mission," Alistair says, "Is she? Well! Let's not tell the queen, then." If he is married to Anora then this version of his codex entry, which you receive after the meeting, reads: "Few Wardens have ever left the secretive order, and he is the only of those who went on to rule a nation; Queen Anora, daughter of the legendary Teyrn Loghain, rules at his side."

[possessedopossum]

Words cannot express how much it means to me that both Anders and Hawke survive the events of da2 and dai. Anders is so depressed and hopeless in act 3, he feels like he's living on borrowed time and he has no choice but become a martyr in order to save the mages from genocide. He expects his own lover to kill him and when Hawke refuses to do so, Anders is genuinely surprised. Some people call him suicidal at this point but no, there's a huge difference. He doesn't want to die, he wants to live in a world where mages are free. And unfortunately, he also believes that this world can be created only if he dies. Later, in the Gallows, Anders sounds so...Inspired? Hawke had shown him that there is a choice, that he doesn't have to die. He doesn't have to sacrifice anything, including relationships with Hawke. And his fight for mages rights is not hopeless at all. I don't believe someone's story is good and worth telling only if the hero dies in the end. To me, the story is good only if Anders survives too see the world his actions created. He deserves to know divine Victoria disbanded the Circles of magi. He deserves to see mages not being afraid that the Chantry will tear their families apart. He deserves to see young mages who have never ever heard that their magic is a curse. In my hc, after they aid the mage rebellion, Hawke and Anders find a remote village in Ferelden to hide and just...Enjoy their life there. They have a kid together. Hawke works on a farm, like he used to before Kirkwall, and the locals appreciate having a spirit healer around a lot. No more templars, no more responsibility for an entire city. Hawke doesn't even go to Adamant. Because guess what? Anders does NOT deserve to see his another lover being taken from him because the Chantry said so. Honestly fuck Varric for that, my Hawke wouldn't even answer his letters after this. Corypheus is not his problem, it's grey warden and inquisition problem. Hawke is no longer the hero who saves the day. He's just a random ferelden man who loves his husband and daughter, okay?

So here's a picture of Anders and Isaac Hawke after they killed Meredith. The sun is rising, I like it way more than in game scene with dark lighting. Because it's not the end, but the beginning.

[thornfield13713]

So, for the Handers-in-Lothering thing, what if Marian was pregnant when they got separated?

Hmm.

Marian and Anders are one of the few of my DA pairs I can really consider having kids, though in canon I tend to assume that, if they do, it'll be an adoptive child, due to Anders being a Warden. They're involved in liberating the Circles, doubtless there are a lot of little apprentices with no family, and taking in one or a couple of those might well be something for Anders and Marian to do once things have calmed down a bit and they're no longer constantly chasing all over the place putting out fires - I really hope Veilguard isn't going to walk back Leliana's reforms as Divine, they're one of the few positive things to come out of Inquisition.

But in this case-

Huh, that actually changes a lot.

Starting with this - the dynamic between the Hawke siblings during their first year in Kirkwall completely changes if Marian has to go on maternity leave. I mean, there's already some major changes, since in this 'verse Malcolm lives a bit longer and is thus the one to die to an ogre instead of one of the twins, but here...I tend to assume a fairly long gap between the Hawkes getting to Gwaren and then to Kirkwall - there would be a lot of people leaving, presumably they needed to get money together to pay their passage, and by the time they get to Kirkwall it's already choked with refugees in a way it presumably wouldn't be if they'd got the first boat from Ferelden. Also, this builds in a cushion for Anders to leave the Wardens not quite immediately after the events of Awakening. So, assuming a few months, Marian is showing by the time they get to Kirkwall, and while there are a fair few tasks one can still do in a smuggling operation while pregnant, she's not going to be on the front lines straight away, even if she's back to work inadvisably soon after having her first child (I lean towards a girl, because Anders just has the vibe of a father of daughters). Which means that the twins are pushed forward a bit more in everybody's eyes - it's not just Marian people are noticing, and it's not just her supporting the family - it's all of them supporting each other because they can't afford to do anything else. This is better for Carver, who's finally getting the attention and notice he craves, but worse for Bethany, whose odds of avoiding Templar notice got a lot slimmer. And all that with an additional mouth to feed.

Which- Marian's having a bad enough time in this AU already. She's having a bad time in early DA2 already, but here she's lost her husband and her father in very quick succession, and been through the hellish trauma that is Ostagar. This might lead to a generally looser structure in the Hawke family - Hawke seems to be broadly In Charge in the game, in a way that suggests that they took over pretty smoothly from their dad in the role of paterfamilias, regardless of gender. In Marian's case, I tend to headcanon that happening because Leandra was deeply depressed after Malcolm died and someone had to manage the farm because the twins were still adolescence. Here, while Marian is still the sort of person who feels her responsibilities deeply and takes a lot on herself, the twins are (if barely) adults, and can share some of the weight, even if Marian's personality is always going to mean that she's inclined to take more on herself. Also, she's pregnant, and while that doesn't mean incapable, it does pose some difficulties for anything requiring agility or heavy physical labour once you're far enough along, which working for Athenril definitely would.

And all that before the reunion with Anders, and the revelation that while he thought Marian was dead and was fleeing Templars and being recruited into the Grey Wardens and getting possessed, he missed his daughter's birth and probably a fair chunk of the first year of her life. And- odds are that the kid's a mage. Like- mage dad, Mum's family have magic in their line on both sides...that kid is almost certainly going to be a mage, and everyone in the family knows it, which is going to make getting a title and some money and standing to hide behind even more urgent. So...yeah, that's an interesting one, I'm going to need to let it percolate.

[vigilskeep]

🤝arcane warrior surana protecting Anders and Velanna with vicious fervor. My hawke is a blood mage also and idk if you’ve used blood magic for da2 but there’s a spell called Sacrifice where u drain some health from a party member to gain more health back to yourself and I never use it on Anders. Sometimes I like to imagine in character responses from party members for tht tho just bc it would be funny. Pov you’re being yelled at by Aveline for sucking her life force during combat.

both i and minerva LOVED awakening combat even with self-imposed restrictions on blood magic because arcane warrior/battlemage combo was just so good when she was that tough at that point. finally my turn to protect my friends

blood sacrifice is so messyyyy if you imagine the in-world consequences GAHSJKSKS like to me it’s totally immersion-breaking in da2 and would completely alter your relationships but blood magic player characters are Like That you gotta imagine all the consequences yourself i guess. anyway i haven’t used blood magic for da2 but blood sacrifice existed in dao. i generally didn’t use it for Character Reasons, although i did use it regularly on zev and nathaniel’s ranger-summoned animal companions, which is a lot if you think abt it too hard. and i also used it on alistair and loghain maybe two or three times collectively when i was really like desperate or panicked. with alistair i imagine it was “DO YOU TRUST ME?” “WHY?” “ALISTAIR ANSWER THE QUESTION” “CAN IT WAIT” “ALISTAIR” “FINE YEAH I TRUST Y—OW!!!” and then can u imagine being loghain and ur life force gets sapped by the warden and u just have to be like this is where my life is at i guess. hello darkness my old friend.mp3

[greypetrel]

Hello 💜✨ n.24 per tutti (o solo per chi vuoi)? 👀

Hullo! 💜✨

No no per tutti! :P It's interesting and it gives me the chance to think to so many new AUs... :P

Tis the prompt list

24. What is an alternative life path your OC might have gone down? How different would their life be if they'd made those decisions?

Alyra: She would have left Alistair a Warden, given him the command before Witch Hunt, and then followed Morrigan through the Eluvian. She would have been happy then: she loves politics, but fundamentally she doesn't care. She does care for Morrigan and Kieran tho. She would have stayed in contact with Alistair, of course... I don't think she would have forgiven the Inquisitor for leaving Alistair in the Fade, tho. Not after Tamlen. And after that, it would have been back to politics and move to unstabilize the Inquisition. She would have been to the Exalted Council instead of Teagan, and it would have probably lasted way less. No Leliana to talk her down.

Raina: Uhm, for her it's either ditching her responsibilities whatsoever, learning sooner rather than later that her family isn't her responsibility, she's a sister and not a mother for them... And left as she intended to before Malcolm died. I kinda picture her getting in contact with the Hero of Ferelden and becoming a companion, maybe? Or, leaving Kirkwall to the Arishok, supposing that Isabela didn't turn back and just... Sent the Book back via Thedas-Amazon. She would have actually tried with the Qun, just to discover she would have fitted VERY poorly in it. And then run from the city and live as a fugitive, most likely.

Garrett: Take his money after the Deep Roads, return to Ferelden and buy a farm in the countryside, in a place forgotten and isolated, and live as a hermit cultivating pumpkins. He would have been content, or that's what he would tell himself. "Raina will be better if she doesn't have me to worry about.". Except she would have not, remotely. I can picture Raina actually getting killed by the Arishok, Leandra's death would have destabilized her too much to actually pay attention to it. He'd feel horribly, horribly guilty and isolate himself all the more. No family of his own, picture him living as Heidi's grandfather.

Aisling: I'll leave the most obvious one with Radha and indulge in another what if here. Plan the Lavellan detouring to Soundermount during DA2. She would have been sent to town to investigate on Merrill as a favour for Merethari (the two met in Arlathven and got fairly along, they thought maybe Merrill would listen to Aisling). Except... Aisling actually listened to Merrill, agreed with her. And stopped in the city becoming another companion for Hawke. She would have been fairly happy there, befriended everyone (if not romanced, I laugh at the idea she would have gone pestering her way into Cullen's friendship anyway, somehow), got known as a herbalist, became Anders' therapist (he knocks at her door at 3am, gift her a kitten as an apology. She lives in a hut with 20 cats, by now). I think she would suggest Merrill to come with the Lavellans after game, or just decide to stay with Hawke if she's needed there, according to how much approval she'll have.

Radha: She would have not switched place with Aisling and travelled to the Conclave herself. She would have been a firmer Inquisitor, surely. Would have exiled the Wardens, let Celene die and keep Gaspard on the throne with Briala actually controlling him (and Leliana instructed to keep all her spies on de Chalons, and cut down every contact he has if he tries something against Briala). She wouldn't have trusted Morrigan for a moment, and drank from the Well herself. I think she would overall be way less popular Inquisitor than Aisling was amongst the people, but more palatable for nobles. She wouldn't have been happy, tho: She would be frustrated in a role of command and under so many eyes. She will adapt, but happy? Oh, no. Not at all, she would hate the position to bits. Woudn't have disbanded the Inquisition out of pure pettiness, and become a more and more bitter and angry person as time went by.

I'll spare you Mass Effect shenanigans :P

[for-the-urizen]

One of my favourite moments from Dragon Age: Origins was when my Warden died and Sten had to tank the Archdemon, chugging health potions like an addict between every attack while Wynne was running around Yakety Sax trying to not get ganked by Darkspawn with Zevran close behind trying to kill them before they killed her.

One of my favourite things about DA2 is how responsive everyone is when things take a bad turn and prevent a complete disaster from turning into a nightmare when both Hawke and Anders are dead and I need to manoeuvre Merrill and Varric to outrun the enemy and simultaneously take them down one by one. Which is tedious when it happens, but also incredibly satisfying when it ends.

And there's been several times in Inquisition where almost the whole party wiped except for Vivienne who soloed the dragon that stomped everyone else because Knight Enchanter is broken AF.

From what I can tell, none of these moments will happen in Veilguard because not only can we not control party members directly, but from the trailer footage it looks like the player character is the only one capable of dealing significant damage. And if the player character dies, that means it's game over.

As much as I want to know how the story ends, I fear the combat will be the dealbreaker for me.

Because part of what made me love characters like Alistair or Shale or Fenris or Dorian or Vivienne so much wasn't just the interactions in camp dialogue and cutscenes, but knowing I could always rely on them to correct my mistakes.

[fanstuffrantings]

One of my biggest issues with Anders in DA2 will always be that he was a stand in for Valena and plot points weren't fully rewritten with him in mind. Allow me to give examples.

If you're just nice to Anders, he assumes there's romantic intentions and is angry if you reject the idea. What we know about Anders in Awakening means this doesn't make sense. He's a flirt. But for Valena this would make sense. A calous elf who trusts no one is shown complete kindness and understanding? It would totally track for her to be angry at rejection. This moment made me dislike Anders a lot during my first playthrough, it didn't fit him.

Next is just in general how he acts and how departed from awakening he is. If awakening and 2 had more time between them then sure we could argue that the years just changed him. But it hadn't been years. The awakening timeline is a mess but da2 Anders appears barely months after (if that). Valena being introduced as untrusting, slightly uptight, and immediately reactive fits perfect though.

With that said: if they ever were to remake da2 these are some story changes I'd make to Anders to allow the plot to flow better with him.

1. He flirts with everyone. For Fenris it could be done to get a rise out of him. The hatred between them is still clearly there just not as volatile as it can get. He could grow feelings for hawke but it's never brought up until act 2 when he wants to know where the relationship is going. You can't sleep with him without forming a romance but if the player opts for a "I'm just friendly flirting" Anders let's it go. In act 3 when we see him at his lowest he doesn't friendly flirt with anyone.

2. Justice and him are on bad terms at the start of 2. In the book for anders he was kicked out of the wardens after eating people. I want him to have a problem with that and actually be thinking letting himself be possessed is a mistake. It's Hawke's response in act 1 that begins his journey to either reconciling with justice, or attempting to be free from justice. This would also shape how he turns out in act 3. If you support him we see him how he is in game. If you tell him to separate we see him become less of himself as he becomes desperate to avoid what justice plans.

3. The scene with fenris being sold needs to change. That scene honestly should be the thing that causes companions to abandon hawke. Only reuniting in the final to defend the city because everyone is home there. The only exception is if we have vengeance by this point who thinks fenris is getting his justice for hating mages. But even then it's iffy.

4. Again I want to see anders change over the game depending on hawke. If a hawke constantly encourages him and justice to stay together and work through things we see him become more radical and willing to do whatever it takes to gain mage freedom. Even if some must die. The anders we knew is no longer there, but for many this anders is what's needed. What's right. For players who reject what anders could be we see him become almost a shell of himself. Still unrecognizable but also fighting best he can against what's to come. Maybe in this version he tries to warn circle mages, tries to tell hawke, heck maybe even attempts to tell thrask since he's one of the better templars. But he's incapable of doing so. He still wants mage freedom but he's so caught up in his own struggle he can't really fight for it. Still not a great outcome.

I've been thinking on these for a minute. Dragon age 2 is both a loved and hated game for me. Because I feel like it did a lot of damage to the dragon age story but also gave us such good parts as well.

[stop-breaking-my-heart-dragonage]

It really gets me that since my canon Hawke is a mage, I'll never actually get to know Bethany.

Sure, I could just start an alternate playthrough with Hawke as a warrior or rogue and get to know her over the course of Act 1 before I have to decide if I want to take her on the expedition and make her become a Grey Warden, or leave her behind to be taken to the circle.

Except that's not my Bethany, just as it wouldn't be my Carver who died. My Hawke twins grew up with an older brother who was a mage. Their respective character arcs rely heavily on being the sole mage or non-mage of the siblings, so if my Hawke isn't a mage, they're not the same people... and unfortunately, we don't get to see the arc of the twin who shares Hawke's class. Y'know, because of the death.

The last time I tried doing an alternate run with a warrior Hawke, I had a conversation with Bethany where she said that Carver would've hated Kirkwall and probably would've gotten himself arrested the first day, and I sat there like.... I'm sorry? Are we talking about the same Carver?? Because the Carver I know would only get himself arrested for resisting and fighting back with any templars who tried to take his siblings away? He spent the entire first act being like, "Hey, don't do stupid shit or attract too much attention, or the templars will take you away!"

And that's when it really hit me that sure, I'm getting to know Bethany, but I'm getting to know a Bethany who grew up as the lone mage in the sibling group, and that's not the same Bethany that died in my canon run.

I want to know the Bethany who grew up with an older brother who also had the gift of magic but embraced it more than she ever did. I don't even get to learn much about her through dialogue, either. Carver doesn't talk about her nearly as much as Bethany talks about him when she's alive, and when someone does bring her up with him, Carver's usually super defensive about it.

I'll be running around and Bethany will just, "Yeah, my brother used to nail my braid to the headboard. I miss him so much. Hey, the Chantry, I lit a candle for Carver in there. Remember Carver's jig? He used to do that to make me feel better. I miss Carver so much."

Carver's just more reserved and defensive about his grief over losing her, and when he does willingly bring her up, you can feel him struggle to even get her name out; "These are blood mages, they're not like you or... Bethany."

That's why I love the Legacy DLC; Carver will talk about Bethany, and Malcolm, with Hawke without his guard up. At least he does with me, at that point I have his Friendship nearly maxed out so he's just softer in general.

But someone else brings her up, like Anders? Who was genuinely trying to be nice? Carver's response has the vibe of, "You didn't even know her, and you don't care about me, so you're only saying this because she was a mage. Just shut up, stop talking to me."

And I can't even bring her up to Carver in dialogue options the way I can bring him up to Bethany. You can ask her what Carver would think of Kirkwall. During the Legacy DLC there's a humorous option to do Carver's jib for her when she's sad. She brings him up in companion dialogue. It feels like there's more opportunities there, and perhaps Hawke just knows how Carver is and doesn't want to prod. Honestly, maybe it's just me, but my game always feels like that vine-

Hawke: Do you ever want to talk about your emotions, Carver? Carver: No. Anders/Fenris/literally everyone else in Kirkwall: We do! Hawke: I know, y'all. Anders/Fenris/literally everyone else in Kirkwall: We're sad! Hawke: I know, y'all.

I'm sure the differences in the starting Friendship/Rivalry also play into why Bethany's more open about it than Carver is in Act 1, and they're characters who have different grieving processes anyway.

I don't know, maybe you have an easier time merging them through different playthroughs, but DA2 is one that I struggle with deviating from my canon path, I can't do it... Which means poor Bethany's always dead, and I'll never get to be mage siblings with her or see the Hawke trio take over Kirkwall together because DA2 is just a constant "great, so what can we do this week to make Hawke extra sad?"

[carrinth]

You mentioned your Hawke has one of those faces that people like after they've stared at it for long enough and that Anders is the same way. I agree, so I gotta ask what part of your Hawkes face finally make their appearance "click" for you? As well as Anders.

Me? I accidently gave my Hawke a nice smile that I only noticed after 80+ hours. And for Anders, I really started appreciating how his smile reached his eyes and made them crinkle after 70+ hours.

Omg I honestly don't know if there was any 'clicking' moment for me. It was all very gradual, slow burn to the max lol. (*￣3￣)╭

Hmm, but I guess if I had to choose, for my Hawke it was when I had finally finished the last DLC (Legacy) just before the Last Straw in Act 3. I took a screenshot of my Hawke in her Grey Warden armor (love me any Grey Warden crumbs at this point) and was like "Hmm, she's not that bad looking" and realized that thought contrasted with my very first one when I created the character which was "Hmm yes, my Hawke is def the plain older sister that looks perpetually confused". 😅

(In my Hawke's defense I did intentionally give her less flattering features like thicker brows and an oddly long yet narrow nose)

As for Anders? Idk, slow burn too. Got very used to his face 😂 I guess I liked when he became all blue crackling lmao. Also that DA2 updated the spellcasting animation for mages. Holy crap, if there's one thing DA2 did superior to DAO it would be mages actually looking badass while casting! 🤩

FYI, this ask was in response to this.

[becauseanders]

okay so i know damn well this was just lazy writing and i’m not trying to give bioware any undue credit here (especially because shoutout to my blood mage hawke who’s supportive friends with merrill acting like that™ about blood magic and blood mages, lol) but i can’t stop thinking about hawke’s demeanor throughout their entire time in inquisition

like yeah a purple hawke will get the “this looks nothing like the maker’s bosom” line in the fade but beyond that they are just…so fucking dead inside?

and again, yes, i know, i do, but it still ends up feeling so right because like, the way it really stresses the weight of the burden they feel they’re carrying about corypheus’s survival is so [screams incoherently]

and maybe there are people out there who don’t view their hawkes as emotionally abused parentified children who have been made responsible for everything that ever goes wrong even though let’s be real that’s just canon and so the da:i hawke experience might not work universally but for me it just…hits

there is a light in their eyes that’s just gone, and their tone is so different, and it makes sense for someone who is all alone with only one friend in the entire inquisition having to face a great enemy they know for a fact they killed and so they’re now scared and confused and angry and guilty (plus the way they deliver “corypheus is mine” when volunteering to be left behind is just…oof) and there’s still a lot to get upset about regarding their characterization but just so much about the way they carry themself in da:i even if it’s completely opposed to their da2 personality makes me feel things!

and bonus points for a hawke with a love interest who isn’t with them! and bonus points for a hawke with a warden sibling adding to the horror! and extra bonus points for a fugitive-with-anders hawke, who thus not only has a love interest they left behind but that love interest is also a warden who has already been affected by corypheus and then go back to that fugitives part so that hawke has extra, extra reason to be nervous about being with the inquisition! i am just feeling so normal about this!!!!!

[lairofdragonagelore]

Tarohne, the Fell Grimoire, and Xebenkeck

The Forbidden Ones are related to an ancient Tevinter tome called Fell Grimoire, that could be found in dark corridors underground Kirkwall. It allows the summoning of these ancient demons, and the bit of lore around it that DA games and books offer suggest they may be linked to the Forgotten Ones [”evil” elvhen gods]. Part of this vital information has been compiled by the forgettable character of Tarohne.

[Index page of Dragon Age Lore]

Who is Tarohne? She is not a big central character of DA2, but she is the first char we are presented who has some understanding of what Xebenkeck truly is.

To put it shortly in context, let’s refresh some quests in DA2

Everything starts in the coast of Kirkwall, where we find Cullen with a Templar recruit called Wilmod who he suspects is meeting escapee mages. He tortures Wildmod until he turns into an abomination, presenting to us a unique piece of lore up to this point: that mages are not the only ones who can become abominations as the Chantry has been telling us so far. Of course, Templars didn't know about it, as usual.

After some tracking of the responsible of the disappearance of Templar recruits, we find Tarohne who despite being a "sort of" unreliable narrator, she puts in context several points we learned or inferred from the codex The Enigma of Kirkwall: with the assistance of a mage, demons can possess anyone: a Templar, a noble, etc. In ancient Tevinter, she says, they could hold demons as allies. This is something that we see in DAI when Corypheus teaches the Venatori how to bind themselves to demons. This is the lore that explains all the plot about the Grey Warden raising an army of demons. I'm not saying the Grey Warden acquired this mastery, since it was altered [every time they bind to a demon, they became puppets of Corypheus], but that plot of DAI allowed us to see that the ancient Tevinter had a deeper knowledge of the demons to control them in similar fashion as Tarohne claims.

Later, we find Keran, a Templar recruit, restrained in a magical cage, tortured by nightmares as, I imagine, the demons keep pushing him in order to accept the possession. 

This situation immediately brings to my mind what Flemeth said to Morrigan: "a soul cannot be forced upon the unwilling". This is a lore deeper and truer than any Tevinter knowledge we can get in DA series, since it comes from one of the first Elvhenan: Mythal. So I’m going to assume this is the true statement to understand what’s going on, lore-wise. 

It's never explained explicitly what happens if a soul is forced upon the unwilling. I can speculate two options:

It may produce the destruction of the souls, since it seems to be the procedure that allowed the Grey Warden to destroy the Archdemons, preventing their further rebirths.  

Another possibility is that this is the case when abominations occur and demons take total control of the person, changing their bodies into grotesque shapes. 

However, option 2 seems to contradict a lot of situations where we saw a mage accepting possession willingly and becoming a deformed abomination afterwards. One could argue that this is because these abominations were product of accepting the possession of a spirit with "negative” behaviour [rage, desire, pride, etc], while the non-abomination possessions we know in DA series have occurred with gentle, kind, and positive spirits, for example, Flemeth [with Mythal, uhm...I know, she is not super positive as a goddess of Revenge], Wynne and Evangeline [with a spirit of Faith], Anders [with Justice, who didn't transformed Anders even when Justice transformed itself], Sigrid Gulsdotten [with some kind spirit  of teaching for sure]. There are other anomalous cases of possessed people that were un-possessed later, like Fiona and Mihris, but I'm not counting them. They are not possessed anymore.

If we see what Keran says, it seems to show a small contradiction with what Tarohne said: the demons can’t simple take control of the person without their acceptance first. So they try to push and tempt the person in question, torturing and tempting them in dreams, but never forcing the possession straightforward. We can infer that in nightmares, Keran was tempted to accept the possession but he "resisted". If we keep into consideration Flemeth's words and all what I said before, it seems that only through a willingly person the possession [with or without a deformation of the host body] can be performed. Certainly, in all the instances where we saw possession in DA series, we saw demons making deals and tricks to convince the mage to accept them. So Flemeth's words strike true, and I'm inclined to think that the only situation where we see unwillingly possession is when the Grey Wardens kill the Archdemon, and it ends up in a blast that destroys both souls. If this is true, this could explain why the souls of all the previous archdemons were not born again after being slain, as the Avvar and Solas told us that it happens with spirits [Urthemiel can show this with Kieran too].

In any case, when we get rid of Tarohne, and save the Templar Order in Kirkwall from a wild corruption of Templar abominations, we assume this quest has been concluded. However, years later, in the following act, we have this curious quest of collecting "Evil tomes". As we collect them, we obtain the complete version of the codex Forbidden Knowledge, where we learn several interesting things gathered by Tarohne:

She has been studying other mages that made contact with something called Xebenkeck, a Forbidden One. It requires a lot of blood for that.

She claims that the first mention of the Forbidden Ones is in 4:2 Black [1495 TE]. This is after the Third Blight and the Schim of the Chantry between the Chantry of Orlais and the Imperial Chantry of Tevinter. To me, it looks like a very late age for listening about the Forbidden Ones for the first time, specially if we keep in mind that Tevinter have always been in contact with spirits or “Old Gods” before. That this denomination appeared so late makes me suspect that they were named in another way before [maybe Forgotten Ones?].

Her research seems solid because she wrote that the first contact with  Xebenkeck was done in the "deep Fade". We had found a soft connection between the more reliable codices of the Elvhenan:  Exile of the Forbidden Ones and the The Deepest Fade, which makes us suspect that maybe the place of exile of the Forbidden Ones had been the Deepest Fade, and it is there where these first Tevinter magus went to contact Xebenkeck. It’s coherent, at least.

She implies that the Fell Grimoire has the names of the Forbidden Ones and names them: Xebenkeck [DA2], Imshael [The Masked Empire, DAI], Gaxkang the Unbound [DAO], and The Formless One [I bet, in DA:D].

It is stated that it is they who taught Blood Magic to humans. This is very interesting, because Solas claims this is a school of magic like any other [check section “magic” in Solar shares lore: Part 2].  Solas’ comment makes us infer that this was part of the Elvhenan arcane culture like any other magic school, and it may link the Forbidden Ones as part of the Elvhenan society at some point. We also know that Solas never saw spirits and demons as different entities, but the same one with twisted purpose. Considering this knowledge, the main question is why the Forbidden Ones became what they are? What were they forced to do that twisted them so much into what they are now? Was it the war against the Titans? Could it have happened that Forgotten Ones that were forced to the Evanuris and twisted their purpose to become Forbidden Ones? Or the Forbidden Ones are simply another way of being elvhenan, and since they were not forced into shapes like the elves, they remained spirits? Certainly, all of them have less impulsive desires, and can be very civil talking to them [For example, Felassan speaking with Imshael]. Sadly, there are no many answers to these questions, only speculations.

Tarohne claims that Andraste was a deluded fool and the Maker is a hoax, which is a sentiment that other characters who understand this world much better seem to share. Solas prefers to remain silent when it comes to Andraste and the Maker, but his most direct agent we knew about, Felassan, claims that the Maker is a human invention [** check the end of the post for the cite].

She claims that there is more evidence about the Forbidden Ones than the Maker, and we, as player, can totally support this statement.

As we seek all these tomes, we end up in a Forgotten Lair, in Darktown, where we find the copy of the Fell Grimoire made by Tahrone.

The Fell Grimoire is an important book in DA lore, it appeared in the codex The Enigma of Kirkwall, in particular in two sections that imply part of the story around this book:

In the back alleys of Lowtown you can find extraordinary things. Priceless tomes of knowledge can be bought with a handful of gold: The Chant of Archon Lovias, a whole chapter of the Midnight Compendium. Some of these books were thought lost forever!

And these are no forgeries. I've verified their authenticity myself. The fences have no inkling that what they're selling has value. Where did these books come from?

After several failed attempts, I got my answer underneath the city. There is a hive of hidden passages in Kirkwall's sewers. Now and then a lucky "sewer rat" comes across an unlooted chamber, and then a cache of ancient Tevinter relics spreads through the black market. We must search below the city.

—Underneath a cobblestone with curious markings, faintly glowing. It is signed, "The Band of Three"

A recent trove was uncovered. This one was big, perhaps the archon's visitation chambers.

And a flood of tomes is on the market. Even the simple fences know something is amiss—they've raised their prices at the frenzy of collectors. One said he sold a copy of the Fell Grimoire! I doubt he would lie; how could he know that tome is a mere legend?

If that is real, then what of the Forgotten Ones? This journey has taken us to many strange places, and made us re-evaluate many former truths. Where will it end?

—Hidden under a cobblestone with curious markings and signed, "The Band of Three"

So, long time ago, when Kirkwall was Emerius [Kirkwall history and design], an underground network of arcane research was developed. The relics left there reached the surface via the black market when looters explored this underground network and could unlock new chambers. That's how we track the rumour that someone may have got a copy of the Fell Grimoire. This book, somehow, ended up in Tarohne's possession, who made another copy to preserve the knowledge.

The book is supposed to teach how to summon the Forbidden Ones, ancient demons that, so far, we only know they are four: Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and The Formless One. Each of them known and fought in each game of DA with the exception of the Formless One [probably they will be present in DA:D].

Now, up to this moment, this is all the information we have about the Forbidden Ones in the games. We have a more broad vision of Imshael's personality in the book The Masked Empire, but there is no mention of the Forbidden Ones  or their history. The only mention in the book is that Celene has studied about them.

However, as we saw in the codex The Enigma of Kirkwall, one of The Band of Three has a kind of a leap in their thinking process and realises that if they found the Fell Grimoire--which was supposed to be a book of legends and myths--now any legend and myth acquire a degree of truth: hence, the Forgotten Ones may also be truth. The last note of the codex straightforwardly connects Xebenkeck with a Forgotten One:

We went to the center of it all. F. is dead and I am alone and injured. I must go back and put an end to it. The maddening thing is there is still no answer. But the Forgotten One, or demon or whatever it is, must be destroyed. I fear one may already be unbound.

I foreswear my oaths. The magister's lore must be burned and the ashes scattered. No good can come of it. And Maker help us if someone does answer what we could not.

—Hidden near curious markings and signed, "The Band of Three"

At some point one suspected this was a typo in a rushed game, since Forgotten Ones and Forbidden Ones are names that can be easily mistaken. However, the World of Thedas book came up with the true intention of that last sentence:

This exchange of letters between Seekers claims information we didn't see in the Enigma of Kirkwall:

Blood magic origin is not from Tevinter but from Arlathan. This is a very interesting piece of information because coincides and makes sense with the information we got about the Joining ritual of the Grey Wardens that faced the First Blight: they created the ritual and consulted Tevinter Magisters and Elves, who shared "ancient knowledge of Arlathan". This is not new for us after all the analysis we did with Murals in DAI, Fen’Harel’s mountain ruins, The Lost Temple of Dirthamen, and  Vir Dirthara, but we can appreciate the lore consistency in the details.

It claims that, at least, is worth investigating if there is a link between Forgotten Ones and Forbidden Ones. It doesn’t straightforwardly says that such link exists, but it’s something given to the player to consider.

As a final detail that I’m not so sure how much to read into it, is that Xebenkeck  drops “Voracity”, a staff which has the same design than “Valdasine”, which is the only curious object we can find in the Vault of the Primeval Thaig.

Voracity has no lore in its description. Its design looks like a dragon’s jaw. There are some spikes of orange crystals that may or may not be a representation of red lyrium. Its stats only show that it’s related to blood magic, which makes sense since Xebenkeck seems to be deeply related to that magic. 

On the other hand, Valdasine, found in the  Primeval Thaig and tied to the codex  Valdasine, is described as “a staff of strange metal, it looks like lyrium and chills one's heart like a remembered sorrow.”  Sadly, sorrow is something that, lore-wise, we can relate to elvhes and titans alike.

-----------

[**] Felassan in The Masked Empire:

“We were an empire,” Felassan said again, and this time she heard the anger in his voice. “It was not the Golden City. It was not the peaceful afterlife of this Maker the humans have made for themselves. Take the richest district of Val Royeaux, and tell me how many fools are scheming against each other at every ball? How many servants are flogged for improperly arranging the silverware?”

[woodcries]

HEADCANON 001. marian + family relationships ( reposted and added onto from an archived blog )

leandra. her relationship with leandra is… strained, to say the least. leandra’s a bit of a pageant mom and sort of uses her as a surrogate after bethany dies as someone to dress up and introduce to suitors, which is obviously something marian isn’t particularly interested in and the favoring of bethany inadvertently gave marian a bit of a complex when it comes to her looks and her more feminine qualities. marian still feels obligated to impress her though, especially so after carver leaves as the only child still around. her death and the lack of real closure leaves marian in a difficult mental state going into act 3 malcolm. her relationship with malcolm is a bit different. she remembers him much more fondly, likely since he died when she was younger, but his talk of magic when she first discovered her abilities was perhaps, a touch too fearmongering for her and for most of her life, up until… probably kirkwall and meeting anders, she treated her magic as a curse. she doesn’t particularly blame him for it though, because being an apostate is hard enough without having a magical child, but it stunted a lot of her magical growth and caused a lot of self loathing. the twins. everything marian does and everything she is comes from being an older sibling. her urge to protect, her urge to take on burdens, all of it was instilled in her by her parents when the twins were born and even more so when bethany’s magic started manifesting. since their birth, she was treated more like their guardian rather than their sibling and she took the responsibility very seriously. she loves bethany. it’s hard for her not to baby her given how much of her job was keeping her safe when they were kids from templars and the cloying village boys vying for attention who might discover her magic, and often times she is wrong about bethany and underestimates her. the tendency was passed on from leandra who clearly saw bethany as more of a daughter to be dressed up or prepared for suitors than marian was. though they look very similar, marian always thinks of bethany as the more delicate, waiflike one of the two which causes her to doubt her own desirability as being too brutish. in the case that she dies ( in my main verse i say both twins survive but marian is a mage so bethany would die in game ) marian finds herself being pushed into the role bethany once had for the sake of helping her mom grieve and giving her what she wanted. she loves carver no matter how hard he makes it. often times she doesn’t realize that, though leandra never doted on her the way she did with bethany ( the one she could project on most imo ), she still wasn’t put in the shadow like he was and that blindness to her position causes a lot of frustration. while most of the time she tries to just get him to calm down and settle with him, it’s when she gives more of a backbone they get along better. she takes him on the deep roads because she still trusts him more than anybody and when he becomes a warden and gets a chance to be on his own and make his own legacy, they get along a lot more openly. however, after da2 and inquisition she cuts contact with everyone and while their relationship is more solid, there's still a lot of work that she just can't bring herself to do anymore. i like to think carver is more empathetic towards her position but obviously that's up to interpretation.