#they were the Mean Girls of ouatiw

[redknave]

TOP TEN OUATIW RELATIONSHIPS (AS VOTED BY MY FOLLOWERS)

#8/9/10 (tie): anastasia & the tweedles

[ryik-the-writer]

No one:

Me: You know who would have been better as Belle's infidelity partner than Will Scarlet? Jefferson.

Before I begin, THIS IS NOT A BELLE HATE POST! Yes, I am going to address IT, but I am not putting her down for this...and I'll tell you why.

So after that god-freaking-awful twist in 4x11 when Belle sends Rumple over the town line, both he and Belle are left shattered at their dubious betrayals, the latter of which so much so she sought additional comfort (again, not hate, just hear me out).

That love interest ... for whatever reason ... was Will Scarlet, a cameo from Once Upon a Time's short-lived spin-off OUAT in Wonderland, which had ended a few months prior.

I, along with a good chunk of the fanbase, thought it was a unique choice, and most likely a way to acknowledge the spin-off in canon.

Don't get me wrong, I like Will as a character in OUATIW, but he was just off to me in OUAT. Like he was just shoved in there without a real purpose. Even his scenes with Robin Hood felt forced to me.

And honestly, it seemed strange to me that Belle, the logical scholar and fruitful romantic, would break her wedding vows of all things even after what Rumple did.

BUT THEN AGAIN, I also don't think it's established how intensive wedding vows are in this universe. I mean, Snow technically cheated on David with Dr. Whale, and while it's addressed comedically, it's not really addressed as an issue in their marriage but they comfortably move on from none the less.

Of course, it's obviously just the show's weakest attempt at *drama* and a way to baffle the Rumbellers into stunned silence so they can focus on *other things* (I am NOT going THERE today.)

And I think I remember an article or something about Will's actor's Michael Socha, feeling underused and wanting out especially since he had a kid at home. While he has a few zingers between him and other characters like Rumple and Hook, he looks so awkward when he's on-screen with Belle, like even he doesn't know why he's there!

But for the sake of *drama* Belle needs some side yum. Cool. Girl's gotta work out her frustrations some way right? But WILL SCARLET?!

This Will Scarlet?

"I love you Anastasia Tremaine" Will Scarlet?

Who ripped his heart out because her betrayal was just too much?

For freaking sake, they had a TLK!!!

I will only, and I mean ONLY accept the following two theories as a reason why...this happened...

1. This takes place during Will and Anastasia's break.

It's established in the OUATIW that the events in the spinoff are happening sometime in either late-season 1 or early season 2's canon. I think. But maybe, just maybe, it was actually around season 4's timeline? The timeline is screwed to hell anyway so...

Ana's presence is established in OUAT after Will, who broke into the library and vandalized a copy of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, is arrested and held indefinitely. And while Will looks distraught at the mention of his former love, but he's not devastated enough

The scene subsequently serves as a pointless but sweet way to introduce Belle and Will. I myself wrote a fic few years back as a way to fill in how that played out afterwards. But the actual writers just kind of tossed it in there.

And dropped it.

Yeah, WIll just kind of disappeared after season 4. Thanks for stopping by, I guess.

And btw, you cannot convince me that a guy who reacts like this after watching the love of his life get killed in front of him:

Like I kid you not, Will's screams and cries were stuck in my head after that episode. I gasped and covered my mouth. I remember feeling the same way when Graham died in OUAT because Emma's grief was just as raw as this. This is not the kind of grief you just up and move on with so casually. This sticks with you.

BACK TO JEFFERSON

Okay, I swear, I have a point.

Again, if Belle just *needed* a love interest during her break from Rumple, fine, but why not use the opportunity to do some freaking fan service after that Frozen mess?

Bring. Back. The. Hatter.

Why Jefferson?

He has an established relationship with Belle.

Even if the ugly truth is Jefferson had to know Belle was being held captive in the hospital asylum, Belle would still, begrudgingly, be grateful he freed her and reunited her with Rumplestiltskin. Maybe he tried apologizing with coffee, and...things happen.

Plus he has an established relationship with Rumplestiltskin PRIOR to Belle.

No. You cannot tell me these two:

...were just "business associates". No these two were hitting shroons in Wonderland every Tuesday at happy hour, do I make myself clear? It's obvious they weren't friends but they worked well together.

That scene in the shop would have been BANGER if Jefferson had been in Will's place. I mean the possibilities are endless with their establishment. They could have opened up an opportunity to explore more of Rumple's deals with Jefferson to find a way to the Land Without Magic, or even their shared connection with Regina, established, beloved connections in the series the audience would be comfortable with.

And honestly, I think Belle and Jefferson could have very nice chemistry too.

Their both worldly, and I can see these two sitting at a booth in Granny's forever as Jefferson told her her stories about his travels, maybe even a few tales about his deal and possible friendship with Rumplestiltskin. And maybe he helps her heal a bit.

That scene in 4x12 where Belle and Hook talk about Rumple really rubbed me the wrong way. What Rumple did to Belle and, yes, even Hook, was awful, but Hook never had to answer for his part in Rumple's decline. What did he think would happen if he threatened to blackmail him with Belle of all people?

Not to mention, Belle and Grace would have gotten along so well.

At this point in the series, Grace is a young teenager, and could possibly use a female presence. She like Henry, would probably understand that her father needs more companionship and would support their relationship. And it would be great foreshadowing to Belle's own relationship with her child later on. And Belle LOVES kids and could have formed a very promising bond with Grace. Regardless on how her relationship with Jefferson could have ended, Belle would have this girl over for sleepovers every week.

[piracytheorist]

GUYS GUYS GUYS

I recently got access to Disney plus and I just remembered OUAT is in it

So I'm looking through the episode titles and descriptions in Greek and... shit they're bad.

1x8 "The Price of Gold", the title was translated into "The Prince of Gold" for some reason.

The thumbnail for 8 "Desperate Souls" is this??

Did they mistake thumbnails with OUATIW?? XD

For episode 1x17 "Hat Trick" there's no direct translation in Greek, so instead they named the episode "The Mad Hatter". But then they named 2x11 "The Outsider" as "Yaoguai" because I guess that appears there.

BIG CRINGE they translated 3x17 "The Jolly Roger" as "The Pirate Flag" because yes that is what jolly roger means but it refers to Hook's ship jfc

I should have been the one to translate the titles agdsafddhgx

The description for 3x19 is "Zelena threatens to kill Henry if Hook doesn't kiss Emma" and while it's accurate, it feels so funny to just read this as a description for the entire episode agdsghafdsg

Is this what the episode descriptions are in English too? Cause for 3x20 "Kansas" the description is "Mary Margaret is about to give birth" and that's even funnier XD

4x03 "Rocky Road" is "Dangerous Road" because we don't have that ice cream flavour in Greece -_-

The description for 4x04 "The Apprentice" is "Hook asks Gold to stick his hand back" but the verb used is like... the verb we use for welding metal and idk it looked weird XD

The description for 4x12 "Heroes and Villains" is "Our heroes try to unite the pieces" and I'm like WHAT. WHAT PIECES??

Seriously, I would have done a much better job.

The description for 4x16 "Poor Unfortunate Soul" is "Gold and the Queens of Darkness torture August"??? Like yes they do but that isn't the focus of the episode??

Description for 4x21 "Mother" is "Regina doesn't trust her mother's intentions" and I'm like did they mix Lily's and Regina's names XD

They didn't do the "scary dragon bitch" justice in the translation -_- My Disappointment Is Immeasurable And My Day Is Ruined

5x01 "The Dark Swan" is "The Black Swan" for some reason?? The word we have for "Dark" would have worked, but okay...

The rest of the thumbnails are good, though I guess those were not handled by the translators.

There's something about seeing this screenshot with the title for "Swan Song" in Greek. It's been nearly eight years and this storyline still pulls at my heartstrings.

5x13 "Labour of Love" is supposed to be connected to Hercules' Labours, but they didn't use the word for that that we use in Greek. It's still a correct word for "labour" but it should have been the word we use for Hercules' Labours. Again! I would've done a better job!

5x18 "Ruby Slippers" is translated as "The Kiss of True Love"??? Like I know the English title was a play-for-words for the Ruby/Dorothy ship but come on!!

6x12 "Murder Most Foul" is translated as "The Real Murderer" and the description says "Regina helps Robin adjust to Storybrooke" and again. Yes that happens there. BUT IT'S NOT THE FUCKING FOCUS.

For three episodes straight, 6x15, 6x16 and 6x17 the descriptions are about what Hook does. "Hook is trapped in another realm with the Nautilus", "Hook bets his most prized possession in a cards game", "Hook and Tiger Lily join forces against the Lost Boys". Like yes that happens but again not the focus?? Was a Hook fan responsible for that because I kinda relate lmao that's all I remember too 🤝

7x14 "The Girl in the Tower" has the description "Ivy tries to reconcile with Anastasia" and I'm like what?? Did they mix things up? And even if that happened in that episode, IT'S NOT THE FOCUS.

Massive disappointment. I should have been hired to write episode descriptions. Hmph.

[intothewickedwood]

2, 6, 9, 43, 44, 45, 47, 57, 58, 59, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66 for the Disney asks! :D

WOAH! Thank you a million, Maria! I always want to send you more numbers but I feel like I should give your other mutuals a chance xD but let me know if you want me to go quezzie wild anyway xD!

2) Top 5 Disney movies

Okay, I’m not 100 per cent sure if live-action movies are meant to be included but I find animated and live action very difficult to compare because I’m more of a live-action girl so I’ll cheat & do my top 5 of both!

Live-Action

5. Sky High

4. The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian

3. High School Musical 2

2. George of the Jungle

1. Rodgers & Hammerstein’s Cinderella (1997)

Animated

6. The Fox and the Hound (I couldn’t leave it out because it makes me cry uncontrollably every time)

5. The Lion King II

4. Mulan

3. Frozen

2. Tarzan

1. Frozen II

Strangely (for me) I think all the animated movies would come first, except for maybe George of the Jungle and R & H Cinderella is my absolute favourite.

6) Favorite villain

I think Zira from the Lion King II is actually my favourite! I am very much influenced by her villain song being my favourite but her obsession with Scar and treatment of her kids is facinating. But I do really like Maleficent and Frollo gets points for being the most freaking terrifying (though I hate him with a burning passion (see what I did there??))

9)  Favorite sidekick

Oooh! Cool question! I haven’t thought about this before. I think I’ll go with Olaf. Though I do really love Terk from Tarzan too.

 43)  Which princess’ story is the most similar to your life

Oooh! Really cool question! Honestly probably Rapunzel because… well, I’ll just say I know a Gothel and I don’t go out much.

44) Which princess’ personality is most similar to yours

Hmm. Maybe Anna? I’m quite excitable and intensely enthusiastic about things. Family means the most to me. I’m pretty naive in the romance department and I would totally sing with a stranger I just met. I have a tendency to say the first thing that pops into my mind, also but I’m probably more random than her. 

45)  All time favorite song

Into The Unknown from Frozen II! (Special mention to Colors of the Wind, Out There, I'll Make a Man Out of You, Not One of Us, I Won’t Say I’m in Love and My Lullaby & a load of songs from R&H Cinderella)

47) Favorite villain song

“My Lullaby” from the Lion King 2, for sure! It’s so intense! Ngl, I wish the Lion King II was a stage musical rather than the first film. I like the songs and characters and overall story a lot better!

57) The most underrated Disney movie

Tarzan! I grew up obsessed with it. I wanted to be Tarzan. I used to walk around on all fours just the way he did in nothing but my underpants lol. Those were the days.

58) The most overrated Disney movie

I think Aladdin. I just watched the animated tv series to death. I’m not too keen on the story or the songs. I much prefer the sequels, especially King of Thieves. And I think I much preferred the ouat versions of the characters, especially ouatiw’s Jafar. Such a great villain!

59) Favorite Pixar movie

I’m not a big fan of Pixar because I don’t like the way the animation looks. They are pretty heartfelt though and I have cried during them. I think Incredibles 2 is my favourite because superheroes! We must bring back the Two Ds! (I miss beautiful 2D animation)

62) Best soundtrack

I would say Into the Woods because it’s one of my absolute favourite musicals but I much prefer the original broadway cast. So, Rodgers and Hammerstein’s Cinderella 1997! But special mention to The Lion King II, Frozen II and the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

63) Last Disney movie you watched

Hmm. I feel like it’s been a while. I’m pretty sure it was Prince Caspian. That movie has really grown on me! Especially since I got into Ouat.

64) Two characters that would be great friends

Anna and Rapunzel. They have similar personalities and look a lot alike lol (I headcanon they’re cousins). They might already know eachother because (spoiler for Olaf Shorts) Olaf implies she is a good friend of his & they were at Elsa’s coronation, I think. Though I thought they were from different points in time. Also, they should let Elsa and Kristoff interact.

65) Two characters that would be enemies

All the Villains would not get on. I can’t remember if they did in House of Mouse. I think Frollo would be really upset if Maleficent called on all the powers of hell in front of him.

66) Two characters that should be paired up, but aren’t

Mulan, Aurora and Phillip xD. Heck, they can throw Shang in there too. Also Elsa and any woman! I think she’s pair nicely with Mulan or Belle.

[heka-write]

So there are a lot of videos with this title. And this topic has been discussed since I was in high school (2012); so basically a long time. The main point these videos seem to be making is that:

1) Making a female character fight or do other traditionally “masculine” things is not automatically going to make them a good character.

2) Many times fans dislike more feminine female characters for being feminine, and that being feminine doesn’t mean a female character can’t be well-written. What determines a strong female character is her development, flaws, story arc, etc etc.

Obviously, I agree with both these points. Many of my favorite female characters do take on more support roles rather than fighting roles (Anastasia from OUATIW, Mai from Yugioh: Duel Monsters, the Pretty Little Liars cast from the books, Elena from TVD S1 + S2 (when she took the damsel in distress role more than in later seasons. Ironically enough I didn’t like her in later seasons at all.))  I have seen many examples of authors trying to make up for their female character’s lack of development by giving them power ups (Sakura from Naruto is the main example. She was nothing but pairing fodder for the whole series and the author tried to make up for it at the very end by giving her a surprising power up out of nowhere ). So what exactly is my problem with the abundance of these videos?

Let’s look at some of these “masculine” females:

All of these girls/women…are super feminine. All of them have long hair, tightly fitted suits, Hollywood makeup, and sometimes even high heels. From what I know, most of them are also straight.

Yes, despite what a LOT of people are saying, most of these protagonists are super “feminine” but just have the few characteristics of “masculinity” such as fighting. There’s also the issue of some of them being emotionally stoic rather than complex, but somehow that makes them “masculine”. It doesn’t, it just means they are badly written with a few traditionally masculine traits like fighting. The best written male characters are those who are emotionally complex as well; it doesn’t have anything to do with “femininity”.

Honestly, if the YA community views these women as “masculine”, how would they respond to a butch lesbian?

Or how they would respond to women who ACTUALLY don’t look traditionally “feminine” :

What I’m basically saying is this: No, there is not an abundance of “masculine” female characters, or those who defy gender norms as I’d rather like to say. If anything, we need more female characters who genuinely do defy gender norms outside of just fighting and are also well written.

If you’ve noticed, I’ve been putting “feminine” and “masculine” in quotes this whole time, and I’ll explain why. 

A lot of people have said something along the lines of this (paraphrased) quote:

“These female characters who fight are basically showing that women have to act like men to be empowered”

No, women who defy gender norms are not “acting like men”. Women who fight, don’t wear makeup, play video games, refuse to have children, don’t like to cook, etc are acting like women who don’t follow traditional gender roles. They are not acting “like men” because men do not own any of these traits. Masculinity and femininity are just social constructions of gender.  Aka gender roles. When you say that women who don’t adhere to gender roles are “acting like men” you are perpetuating gender roles and being sexist. Most of the people I have seen in these videos or articles call themselves feminists…but feminism is completely opposed to enforcing these types of gender roles.

Obviously there is a lot of grey area in certain aspects of gender. Some neuroscientists claim there is no “female brain”, other specialists say there are some differences, but telling women that we need to “act more feminine” or ladylike is probably the epitome of archaic misogyny. It also leads way to telling women who are tomboys or GNC that they have “internalized misogyny” for not conforming. You may as well tell me to get back in the kitchen.

Yes, there are good traits that are demonized for being traditionally feminine. Childcare and cooking are often times taken for granted despite the amount of skill they require. Nonviolence isn’t as popular in mainstream media because violence is more flashy. These are traits we should be promoting more of, for both sexes.

But let’s not forget when gender roles were created; they were created in societies where women were men’s property as a guidance for telling women how to behave and as a way to tell men how to keep women in line. There needs to be some criticism and separation from those negative aspects of femininity. We need less women fighting in high heels, we need less nerdy girls getting makeovers. We need more women in relationships with other women. We need to emphasize the importance for women to learn self-defense, instead of letting them think these situations will never happen to them.

Criticizing femininity is not the same thing as hating on women who are feminine, because femininity is a role put upon women, not womanhood in itself. 

As a last note; the definition of femininity differs from culture to culture. In Middle Eastern/South Asian culture (where I am from) women aren’t encouraged to wear makeup or revealing clothes, but rather cover from head to toe. Cats aren’t considered “female” pets, video games aren’t considered boy games etc. How can femininity be innate if it’s different across the world? Which is the innate one?

All I’m saying is that the concept of femininity can and should be criticized, and that we need more genuinely gender nonconforming females who are well written. We can do that without bashing feminine women or characters, and we can do that while creating complex female characters.

@melinapendulum have been following you forever would love to know your thoughts!

[sxmethingbreaking-a]

//let’s get the post on Cora’s abuse out of the way next, shall we? just so it’s done.

This book does not shy away from it. Cora is verbally, psychologically, and physically abusive, arguably to a degree that I think is a bit more exaggerated than what we see in the TV canon. This post is long, as I’m going into instances of all three forms of abuse. 

TV Cora is critical of Regina- pretty constantly. She makes jabs about Regina’s appearance, her unladylike behavior, her likability, her marriageability, I mean it’s everywhere in canon don’t get me wrong. But in the book, they up this a notch. Or….12 notches. Cora’s critical about everything- she makes snide comments about Regina’s singing voice, her painting abilities, the size of her feet, her weight, her hairstyles, her clothes- it’s all over the place. The one that bothered me the most was about the painting. Regina showed it to Cora hoping for praise, and Cora remaks, “well, we can’t be good at everything” or something along those lines. 

As I said, it’s a bit exaggerated, but it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility for her character. I don’t know that I accept how excessive this criticism is as canon, because the writing of the dialogue in this book is very much not how normal people speak, so….that’s a different issue entirely. Moving on. 

The psychological abuse is also dialed up to 20. TV Cora is psychologically abusive too, but this is ramped up a bit. Again though, most of it is not out of the range of possibilities. It just feels a bit…much. 

So the three main offenses the book discusses are what Cora does to a girl named Claire, whom Regina befriends, Jasper the artist, and Regina’s horse, Hwin. The horse is definitely the most obviously in character- it throws Regina from it’s back, she gets hurt, Cora kills the horse in revenge. 100% something she would do.

Jasper is a little more controversial. What happens is Regina starts flirting and gets him to stand behind her while he’s showing her a painting technique. It is a noticeably sexually charged moment. Cora sees this and flips out about the gross man molesting her precious daughter, and she immediately fires him and wants him out of the house. This would be almost in the realm of understandable, but it’s revealed in the end that Cora was aware Regina liked Jasper, and planned to use the poisoned sleeping curse apple (you know, the one Regina winds up stealing from the Blind Witch? Turns out Cora grew that…) Cora’s plan was to poison Jasper with it, and then for Regina to be unable to wake him with True Love’s Kiss because Jasper didn’t actually like Regina that way, he liked her friend Claire. 

A bit needlessly cruel, and honestly I’m not a fan of how they felt the need to connect absolutely everything. The Blind Witch is the secondary villain in this story and it was very not needed tbh. There was no reason for Cora to be at all connected to that sleeping curse. But whatever, it’s not out of the realm of possibility for her given what she does to Anastasia in OUATIW. (Why didn’t she think of this with Daniel? Excellent question.) 

And then there’s Claire. Oh boy. So this is the main plot, and what it boils down to is Cora takes this girl and rescues her from poverty in exchange for Claire to befriend Regina and spy on her for Cora. The girl is also the niece of the neighbor, Giles Spencer, so it all seems convenient. Regina buys it and becomes fast friends with Claire. Everything is going according to keikaku until one day in the market there’s an incident, and Cora (in disguise) uses magic to protect Regina. But Claire takes the credit in order to keep Cora’s presence secret. Regina then decides she wants to learn, Cora gets mad, she takes Claire’s heart. (It’s pretty noticeable when this happens, actually- Regina starts noticing things seem off about her friend, and you start to suspect she’s either Cora in disguise or that Cora has her heart.) In the end, this was revealed to be an extremely fucked up way for Cora to “protect” Regina from…yeah I’m not really sure tbh. Cora just wanted to spy on her daughter really. There’s a lot of reasons this all doesn’t quite add up when you read the book. (what all did Cora know, how much was Claire reporting, why the fuck was Cora just letting Regina and Claire run off to the Blind Witch’s cabin if she had Claire’s heart the whole time…) It’s…eh. It was a predictable twist, but not the most well executed. The ending of the book turns into a bartering match between Regina and Cora when Regina finds out the truth. Claire gets her heart back, but there’s Rumple-esque deal making going on to get that to happen and it’s all very…….off. For both characters, frankly. What Regina winds up doing with her end of the deal feels pretty out of character for her, too, given the way she behaves in The Stable Boy. 

Finally, the physical abuse. It’s portrayed but kept to a minimum. There’s no beatings or whippings or anything that awful. The two major instances are when Cora slaps Regina across the cheek (I winced guys,) and the second is when Cora…sort of…gags her? It’s kind of unclear what’s happening, the writing isn’t the greatest. It seems like Cora makes Regina’s sash come to life and gag her, but then also her hands are restrained above her head, but then Regina almost falls over and the hands aren’t restrained anymore and Cora’s like “you okay?” but the gag is still in place….idk, that whole scene was not well done from a writing standpoint. 

The slap I wholeheartedly reject as canon. I mean….maybe I could see it happening once or twice in Regina’s life, but I have never believed Cora would strike Regina and risk bruising her or marring her face in any way. And it even feels out of character for this book, because Cora does make such a big deal out of Regina’s appearance. The scar is dealt with by the novel, and Cora did not want it there at all. So this action makes no sense to me, and it is entirely out of line with my personal headcanons about the physical side of the abuse. 

The gag, though…….doesn’t seem as out of character. The reason Cora gagged her was pretty damn unnecessary, but Cora’s portrayed as much more emotionally volatile and unstable in this novel, so….I felt like it was written for the express purpose of causing drama, not because it made sense in that moment. But it does seem like something she would do under the right circumstances. 

Honestly, that was a problem throughout the novel- drama existing for drama’s sake in scenes that didn’t need the drama. It didn’t feel very organic much of the time, and the instances of Cora’s physical abuse were both examples of that. Not to say that it wouldn’t have happened- the gag in particular- but the characterization felt just off enough that neither of those instances felt authentic to the character.