#this is post canon. they break up bc things go south in their relationship. not bad but they’re unhappy

[nakamurajay]

jon’s got his hands up in surrender. he’s overwhelmed, jay can tell. he’s gotten better at handling the press, but sometimes, even for the most experienced, it can get overwhelming. he’s in the center of a crowd, floating a foot off the ground. he’s been trying to find a way out for the last five minutes, but it’s proven difficult to excuse himself. both fans and reporters are trying to get the closest. jay’s a few steps away.

“superman!” he calls out. he has jon’s attention in that same breath, and everyone else follows close. it’s a surprise to everyone around who the voice belongs to.

it’s been years. far too long since the last time they’ve seen each other in person. jay’s gone back to his natural hair color since then, and he’s gone to wearing more neutral colors while working. jon himself has let his curls loose as superman. they nearly cover his eyes, but not enough that jay doesn’t notice it: the confusion when he first spots jay changing into recognition.

a few other reporters seem to pick up on his identity as well. a few questions get thrown at him about him presence in metropolis.

“superman, can you tell us where the criminals are being taken?” jay asks, ignoring the shouting beside him. jon opens his mouth, then closes it. the man next to jay murmurs something jay doesn’t catch. instead, he continues. “there have been rumors recently about many criminals being apprehended by your fellow heroes that have gone missing. the public is beginning to suspect that the heroes have something to do with it. is there anything you can say to that?”

the crowd around him is silent for a moment.

criminals that have been locked up recently by any notable heroes have begun disappearing from their cells. most of the cells have been found with struggles of a fight, and traces of whichever hero had arrested that criminal. a few heroes have been taken in for questioning, and although they’ve all gone home innocent, people are not having it. there have been protests and riots against heroes all over the world since the second time.

it’s one thing for any other reporter to try to question jon on this topic. it’s another thing when it’s his ex questioning him. especially when superman has just been held for interrogation two days ago for supposedly kidnapping an inmate.

the crowd turns back to jon.

“we are looking into the situation. we will find whoever is kidnapping the inmates and justice will be served,” jon answers him. he looks bothered but jay can’t tell if it’s with him or the topic.

“can you confirm or deny if any of the heroes are actually guilty and are being let go due to their reputations?” jay presses. he takes a step forward.

“none of our—“

“what are you doing to try to prevent these kidnappings? how far along are you into the investigation? are the kidnappers simply taking inmates or how long will it be before innocent people begin to disappear?” jay can tell that the questioning is irritating jon, who’s doing an awful job at hiding it.

“we are taking this investigation very seriously. as we speak, there are people on the case, attempting to track down the people responsible. trust me, we are doing everything we can,” jon says firmly.

“have you considered that maybe what you’re doing isn’t enough? sure, they’re criminals but they should be in their cells, not wherever they’re being taken. god knows what’s happening to them now. how many more have to be taken before the people responsible are apprehended?”

that seems to do it. jon forces a smile, then. “sorry but i have to go. maybe we can continue this another time.”

they won’t. but it’s not like he can really say that. jay doesn’t have time to say anything because as soon as he’s done speaking, jon is up, up, and away. the crowd begins to disperse soon after, and jay is left frowning, staring up at the streak of red and blue that jon left behind.

——

technically, jay is in vacation. sure, he hunted down jon yesterday to try and get some answers for his story, but he is on vacation. he’s not in metropolis to get closure from jon, nor is he here for work. he’s here to visit the aerie and wink.

but neither of them are on vacation, which means jay is left to find ways to entertain himself. yesterday had been entertaining enough, and if he could, he’d do it again today. but he doesn’t think jon would listen if he tried.

maybe trying to interrogate jon the way he did wasn’t the best way to be seeing him again for the first time in years.

instead, jay spends his morning at the park. he walks along the path for a few laps until he decides to sit down at one of the benches near the playground. there aren’t many people around, just a few exercising and some others with kids not old enough to be in school yet.

he tries not to, but jay can’t help the way his eyes follow a mother with two kids. one is an infant that she’s pushing gently on the swing, and the other is running around the playground, showing off to his mother. it’s a nice scene, but it leaves jay feeling…well, almost like he’s missed out on something.

jay’s never quite liked the idea of marriage or having a family. sure, when he was younger, he used to dream of marrying whoever his crush was at the time. but as he grew older, especially after bendix, marriage had stopped sounding appealing. kids were never something he felt like he needed in his life. he never imagined kids whenever he thought about his future. but being with jon, loving him and planning for the years to come, well. those things always seemed a bit more appealing with jon in the picture.

but not everything lasts forever.

he still remembers how bitter he had felt those last few days together. how unhappy he had been and how he had begun to pack up his things before he and jon had even broken up. that within hours of officially breaking up, jay was already on his way to gamorra. he had believed there was no going back, then. he remembers how awful it felt to fold up the suit, leaving it on their— jon’s bed with the ring on top. he remembers how damian had texted him at least twice a week to check up on him until jay had asked him to stop. it was hard, ultimately, to try and leave behind the life he had in metropolis. especially when their break up had gone public. there are only so many months superman can go without being seen with his boyfriend before people start asking questions.

jay doesn’t know how long he’s lost in thought for until he feels a sudden rush of wind. he shakes off the thoughts, and looks around. beside him, jon sits on the bench in his suit. it’s a nice shade of blue, now.

“jon?” jay manages before jon leans forward.

“can we go someplace private to talk?” jon asks. he’s staring down at jay, mouth in a straight line. he’s not exactly frowning right now, but it’s very close.

“sure,” he says. he’s glances over to the playground, but the mother and her kids haven’t noticed jon yet, and no one else is close enough to say something.

he watches jon stand up, and he holds his hand out to jay. when jay takes it, jon pulls him up. there’s barely enough time for him to register the moment after because soon enough, jon’s letting him down on top of the daily planet’s globe. it’s nostalgic.

jay finds his balance, only needing to hold onto jon for a second before he’s fine on his own. it’s weird, though, to be standing someplace he shouldn’t be. it’s been too long and he doesn’t quite remember the last time he was up high like this. he turns to face jon, who hasn’t taken his eyes off jay.

“you had something to talk about?” he asks, shoving his hands into his jeans’ front pockets.

“what was that yesterday?” jon asks. there isn’t much of a bite to his words. if anything, he sounds hurt. “we break up and don’t see each other for years, and then you suddenly show up in metropolis, accusing me of kidnapping inmates?”

jay scoffs. “accusing you? i wasn’t accusing anyone. i was just doing my job. something is going on and the people need answers.”

“you humiliated me!”

“that wasn’t the first time someone’s done that to you and it’s definitely not going to be the last. get over yourself. i didn’t come to metropolis to point fingers, i’m not here for you at all. but i saw the chance to get the story and i took it.”

“why else would you be here?”

“i’m visiting the aerie and wink,” jay says. he pushes his glasses up. “you do realize that i lived in metropolis for years before we met, right? i have other friends here.”

jon doesn’t say anything to that, he simply sighs. he crosses his arms over his chest, fingers tapping against his biceps. and jay tries not to stare, but jon’s got a bit more muscle to him, and he can’t help the way his face heats up thinking about it.

“well…” jon starts. he lets his arms fall back down to his sides, and looks out to the city. “it’s…it’s good to see you. you look great.”

jay smiles. he thought if he was ever going to run into jon again, that it would be awkward and he wouldn’t know what to say. but the arguing had been like an ice breaker. the awkwardness didn’t last long and standing here, seeing jon worked up was hilarious. to stay the least. it feels nice.

“thank you,” jay says plainly. he knows he should say the same, but he doesn’t. mostly because he knew that the way jon would look at him, expecting the compliment to be returned would be funny. and it is, when jon huffs and goes to cross his arms again. but jay stops him. he grabs jon’s arms and wraps them around his waist before wrapping his own around jon’s shoulders. he lays his head on jon’s shoulder, looking out to the city as he says, “you’re not so bad yourself, superman.”

[swiftfootedachilles]

you wanted more asks, so I'm here to deliver!

-favorite gallavich canon scenes?

-what are some favorite headcanons for them that you have? missing scenes, what ifs, etc.

-favorite characters besides gallavich?

-storyline you would have liked to seen/favorite storyline that the show did well?

-favorite fic tropes that make you just go fuckin feral?

-five things you think needed to be fixed/changed/improved about the show? gallavich related or just in general, dealer's choice

😘😘😘

rubbing my greasy paws together getting ready to type out an essay

ummmm uh okay lemme think.... the s1 juvie scene (CLASSIC!!!), all their scenes working at the kash n grab together, mickey finding ian and taking him home, club kiss, like all of South Side Rules pre-sammi fucking everything up, dock scene, literally all of their s7 scenes tbh, prison reunion scene, "I WANNA BE WITH YOU" "you dont get to be," mickey wasting his break getting noodles in the food court for ian instead of making ian get his own lunch, fiance shenanigans, "i only make toast for husbands with jobs," STEALING THE AMBULANCE AND MICKEY GETTING SO TURNED ON THEY IMMEDIATELY HAVE TO FUCK AND MICKEYS KNEES BUCKLES WHEN IAN PUSHES HIM AGAINST THE AMBULANCE, coworker husband shenanigans, "youre such a fucking barbarian" "thank you☺️," being SOOOO cute at their anniversary party together. so honestly all of their scenes

i love all the deleted scenes i literally need the show editors to go to prison for what theyve done. i especially love the original scripts for the s5 deleted sex scene/ians dream and their s5 breakup. favorite headcanons are autistic!mickey, casual D/s dynamics, not-so-casual D/s dynamics, 🏳️‍⚧️trans gallavich🏳️‍⚧️, hobby artist!mickey, ian becoming the new vee of their neighborhood (ghetto nurse!ian), annoyingly clingy codependent!gallavich being gross in front of everyone, s6 canon divergence where mickey doesn't go to prison bc wtaf was that, s5 canon divergence with no breakup bc that literally made no sense

ummm i love liam hes the true golden child. mandy. uh ethel i would've LOVED to see more of, and the other milkovich siblings. sheila. karen was a REALLY complex character that never really got more than surface-level analysis from the show writers. debbie and her journey as a child obviously struggling with bpd. i do like carl turning his life around and kinda fulfilling many of the dreams ian had growing up. i kinda wish they did more with kev than just "haha kentucky appalachian guy is stupid" like that whole family reunion arc of his was so fucking weird and honestly embarrassing of the writers. also we..... never really learn about vee's family? theres a whole episode dedicated to meeting kevs stereotypical family, and vee gets.....becoming a believer in the american voting system??? and of course svetlana. missed opportunity after missed opportunity with her character - but hey at least they didnt kill her off like isidora wanted⁉️⁉️🥴

really really wish the writers gave a fuck about showing ian coming to terms with his trauma of being groomed and abused. he never learns that what he experienced was abuse. i feel like if caleb can call mickey abusive, then surely ian wouldve mentioned something about literally any other relationship hes had and caleb or trevor wouldve been neen like "uhhh you should see a therapist about that thats really super fucked up that you were victimized like that as a CHILD"

ohhhh the fic tropes. my #1 is always bdsm i am a bdsm gallavich truther until i DIE!!!! um i like canon divergence fics (sometimes). domestic fics. post-s11 married life. learning to grow together as a couple after being off-and-on for like a decade, autistic!mickey!!!! trans!mickey and t4t gallavich!!!! aus where ian and mickey are actually dating starting s1-3 and are out to the gallagher/mandy. uncle!gallavich shenanigans. taking liam on adventures shenanigans

OK SO. FIRST AND FOREMOST I WOULD FIX THE FUCKED UP JUDICIAL SYSTEM IN SHAMELESS fionas/mickeys/ians court shit was so fucking unrealistic and BAD. how the FUCK did fiona get like 60 days in jail + house arrest for possession of a schedule ii drug and attempted manslaughter AND STILL KEPT CUSTODY OF THE KIDS.

literally what the FUCK did mickey get charged with. did he plea? what the fuck kind of plea is 16 years when the person you assaulted ALSO ASSAULTED YOU and is also a COMPLETELY unreliable witness/victim. youre telling me he wouldnt take his chances in court? as if debbie wouldnt be the perfect witness to prove his INNOCENCE? and bianca was dead and frank wouldnt even give half a fuck to testify to seeing mickey lock sammi in the trailer. literally no proof that ever happened. no proof he drugged sammi because it was FAR too late to test her blood and see how much of each drug she had in her system. just her testimony that she drank soda then fell asleep lmao. any defense lawyer would have an easy time getting him acquitted entirely, at most getting a refusal to comply with officers and disturbing the peace for running from sammi and then trying to kick her when the cops showed up to arrest them

literally what the fuck is ians trial. HE PLEADS NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF INSANITY (WHICH NO LAWYER WOULD EVER DO BECAUSE OFC HE WOULD BE FOUND GUILTY WHEN HE CHOSE TO STOP TAKING HIS MEDS) AND IS FOUND GUILTY. OF ARSON. A CLASS X FELONY IN ILLINOIS. IN THE COMMISSION OF ANOTHER FELONY (KIDNAPPING.) AND HE GETS LIKE 2 YEARS IN PRISON YOUVE GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING ME. he could have gotten LIFE for that shit in the real world. i hate this shows pisspoor attempt at a legal system SOOOOO BAD. i stand by my belief that it wouldve made much more sense if he pled guilty and got put in the Chicago-Read Mental Health Center for mentally ill offenders. like he literally thought he was the gay Messiah what do you mean hes in a regular prison. plus it would've been much more interesting to see mickey in this environment - IF everything up to s9 was kept canon. otherwise he would only be able to visit ian like in s5, unless he found a way to get himself committed ?? idk it just makes much more sense than ian in regular prison

the attendees of their wedding. who the hell were those people. people from ians club ing days?? trevors friends???? i mean maybe. i assume sandy just went to every gay bar and passed out flyers saying there was a big gay wedding. it would've made much more sense if mickeys siblings were there especially mandy but what the hell ever. it's not like iggy literally has multiple scenes where he's supportive of mickey being gay and dating ian. WHATEVER. IT'S NOT LIKE THE GAY JESUS FOLLOWERS SHOULDNT HAVE EVEN BEEN THERE AT ALL SINCE THEYRE SHOWN LITERALLY ABANDONING IAN AFTER HIS ARREST AND IT WOULDVE MADE MORE SENSE FOR THE MILKOVICH BROTHERS TO BE OUTSIDE TO KEEP TERRY OUT. FUCKING WHATEVER I GUESS!!!

throw away the shitty homophobic gay man writer and let those 2 bi ladies write s11 gallavich. they were the only ones who wrote decent storylines. fr that gay guy needed to be fired SO BAD i can't believe he wrote the dumbass "who's the wife/bottom/submissive of our relationship" 11x3 plot AND the 11x7 orgy. HE SUCKS SO BADDD??? get rid of that stupid shit. give me more of ian and mickey in the growing pains of their relationship looking for jobs and dealing with the death of terry and trying to find common ground of their plans for the future and mickey being stubborn and scared without being "accidentally" an egregious stereotype of autistic people. LET HIM STIM AND GO NONVERBAL AND LET IAN LEARN TO GIVE MICKEY HIS SPACE WHEN HE'S OVERWHELMED GOOD LORD

[im-gettingby]

30 Days of Carry On

posted (and written by?) @captain-aralias

(I’m doing most of these at once because I said so. it’s long so under the cut)

1. Favourite major character

I literally thought — Simon no Baz no Penny no, Agatha!

I guess I will pick Simon, since I relate to him the most — or at least, my connection to him led me into the fandom.

2. Favourite minor character

I think we all know this one 🐑🐑🐑

I have written many a treatise on Lamb Rights. I’ll spare everyone now

3. Character you relate to the most

Oops— I already answered this, kinda. I relate to them in different ways: I relate a lot to WS Simon because he has abandonment issues and “kid who was told he was extraordinary and then grew up to be ordinary” issues. We also both have a “fix all the things for everyone” complex, too.

Baz — It took me a while to get into Baz’s head, but I would say, I relate to him because of his intense emotional world and tendency to see the world through an intensely romantic/tragic lens. But also he’s a Pisces. and I’d never do that like a Pisces does. (Sorry, not sorry.)

4. Which character would you like to go to lunch with?

SHEPARD obviously. I don’t feel the need to elaborate.

5. Favourite non-Snowbaz ship

Ooh! Probably Lamb/Baz or Simon/Shep or just...literally anything. Like, I will read anything as long as it’s well written. The weirder the better. (Within...legal and moral limits.) in my other fandoms I’ve been a big multishipper and there’s not a lot of options for that in CO - which is fine - but wholeheartedly support rarepairs :D

6. Favourite non-romantic OTP

So, obviously Simon/Penny and Baz/Penny are great ones, but I think the nearest & dearest to my heart is Simon/Agatha. The kind of siblings/unwillingly dating/weird exes dynamic and the way they both shaped each other’s lives is just so interesting. And while Simon & Penny are closer, Agatha and Simon represent their aspirational selves to one another. And the way that they were both tied to one another along with their gender roles/places in society and both broke away at the same time is just...mwah

7. Favourite Baz outfit

I honestly dress kinda like Baz. Anything involving a printed silk shirt or a floral brocade suit, so like, all of them? I love WS Baz, his fashion sense is so thoughtful yet fun. He’s so expressive with it — in the sense of both being guarded, being sexy, and playing with masculinity/femininity.

8. How do you feel about Wayward Son?

In case it wasn���t obvious, I absolutely love it. I mean, from a writing/narrative standpoint, I don’t think it’s the most elegant or engaging book ever written, but it’s just so raw and fresh. I don’t see many examples of an author trying to do what Rainbow did, which is build a complex emotional AND plot-driven story with so many characters and so much lore. I’m very excited for AWTWB.

9. Favourite scene from Carry On, besides Chapter 61

I like what the book does/sets up overall. Honestly probably the first scene, where Simon walks to the bus stop & takes the train and just thinks about his life and makes lists -- I love Simon. I know Rainbow said she thinks that bit is boring, but it honestly says so much about his character in a short time. (and he’s an extremely complex character!) Also, Baz’s dramatic entrance. Also, the chapter where Baz says “and I’m hopelessly in love with him” because it’s just so dramatic, and it comes out of nowhere

10. Favourite scene from Wayward Son, besides Chapter 41

Baz and Lamb’s journey across the Strip - vampire lore, jealous Simon, Baz getting to be his own character— it’s beautiful.

11. Remind us about something in canon readers might have forgotten about

Ahahaha um. Simon says he thinks Baz’s cousin Marcus is fit. That’s pretty funny.

12. What are your hopes and fears for Any Way the Wind Blows?

I don’t have any hopes because I don’t want to be disappointed - and that’s not a cynical thing, I just want to go into it with an open mind. (I’ll take a break from fandom and reread the books beforehand so I’m (more of) a blank slate) I guess just...interesting emotional journeys, whatever that ends up being. There’s a lot that Rainbow has to do in the book and I don’t think any one person could get through all of it -- that’s why we have fanfiction.

Fears? I don’t know. I think just...the series ending. Even though I’ve been in fandom for less than a year I just really love this fandom & the thought of that kind of eroding away is sad. But also I don’t think that will happen immediately, and change is a part of life. I’ve never related as much to Cath as I do now :’)

13. An unpopular/cracky opinion you hold

unpopular: Lamb is the best character; I don’t want Simon to get his magic back; both Simon and Baz should have other romantic options.

14. Something from your head fanon

Hmmmmmmm well. Just mean things about Baz really. Like that he’s weird looking, not that great at football, and actually has kind of garish fashion sense. (which is a self-roast as well - see above.) I just feel like Simon/fandom put him on a pedestal, and Simon’s an unreliable narrator re: Baz anyway. So I like the idea that Baz is this average looking kinda strange nerdy guy who is everything Simon has ever wanted in life.

And before you tell me that Baz was hot at Watford and Agatha was into him, have you ever been to a tiny boarding school? Standards get weird 😂😂😂 and Terry being into him — come on. The guy’s a violent pervert.

also - back to Watford being a tiny school. Baz doesn’t have much competition to be the star of the football team. (also, does anyone except Simon even think that he is?)

16. Favourite location other than Watford

Vegas!

17, Favourite location in Watford

I’m pretty bad at Watford lore/geography bc again, I’m way more into WS. Probably the floor in the Cloisters where everything happens the same way, just a day later. There’s a fic there, but I can’t wrap my head around all the time travel implications enough to write it.

18. What would be your favourite subject at Watford?

Any potions-esque subject because I loved chemistry lab. Latin because I loved Latin in school. Uhhhh I don’t like history class, so not that — maybe a literature course focused on the derivation of spells.

19. What would your magical implement be?

Ooh! This is a good one. I’d like to think it would be a weird body piercing. Or a belt a la Gareth. Maybe some kind of traditional south Asian jewelry, like a nose chain or mang-tikka or something. maybe a hat. like, imagine your magical instrument being a fedora and you just have to...wear a fedora all the time.

21. Favourite canon spell

Hm. Kiss it better? Candle in the wind?I should try to think of a non-horny one. honestly they’re all so cool and clever - I love the magic system in CO/WS.

22. What would your eighth year spell at Watford be or do?

Maybe something from a poem I love. That would probably be pretty but not very functional. Or a healing spell.

23. Who would you want as your roommate?

Agatha is uptight, Penny is passive aggressive, Simon is a slob, Baz is both uptight and passive aggressive.

Definitely Shepard.

24. Favourite item of merchandise, official or unofficial

My @subparselkie sticker

25. Favourite book cover design

WS. Oh, another unpopular opinion - I don’t like the kevin wada cover of carry on. their faces look so weird and the colors don’t work for me. I own the version with the blue and yellow cover art instead

26. Do you want a movie? If yes - any fan casts for the movie?

Probably wouldn’t want a movie! Because I am way too possessive of these books/this version of the story. And I am historically extremely disappointed by adaptations — I get upset with the smallest of changes 😂

27. If they made a movie, what scenes do you think they’d cut that you’d be furious were missing?

See above. A LOT haha

28. If you could ask Rainbow Rowell one question, what would it be? (If you have already, you can share if you like)

What is Lamb’s full name????? Is it actually Lamb Lambert Lamborghini the third???

What is Rainbow’s relationship with sheep and goats. Why are there so many references to them

29. Have you read any of Rainbow’s other books?

Only Fangirl

30. How did you get into Carry On and/or Carry On fandom?

I read fangirl & the pages at the end mentioned carry on, so I read that, and enjoyed it but I wasn’t obsessed. Then I read WS spring 2020, reread it a bunch of times, reread CO, freaked out about the cliffhanger/cool vampire stuff/unresolved sexual tension, had pandemic cabin fever, got on AO3, and the rest is history.

As @annabellelux knows, I wrote my first (published) fanfic after reading her amazing fic Drop The Game. and the first fanfic I read was @captain-aralias’ Greener Grass. I was so obsessed that about a month later, I searched through the AO3 tags for it, because I couldn’t remember the title or author but kept thinking about it.

[angeltrapz]

for the “give me a character” meme! Eric, Adam, William, Mallick, Strahm, Rigg!!!!

YESS thank u!!!!

Eric:

How I feel about this character: That's my boy!!! <33

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Uuuu okay. Adam, obviously, but concerning the SAW polycule: Adam, Art, Lawrence, William, & Mallick!!

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Him & Rigg!!! That's his best friend!!! + he and Gibson in the Eric Lives AU!! (Gibson IS dating his best friend + recognizes that he's made the effort to change <3)

My unpopular opinion about this character: You Understand This but the idea that he's irredeemable/deserved to die is complete and utter bullshit. This post that you made perfectly describes my feelings on that!!

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: Firstly that he. Y'know. Didn't die. But I would have loved to see any of his interactions with Hoffman? Obviously they knew each other + I like to think they have since they were in academy together, so there's gotta be some sort of history there, y'know?? I feel like he definitely cared about Eric so I would've been very interested to see more regarding that relationship! + one more big one: I wish he knew/was at least made aware of the fact that Daniel was ALIVE and okay. It kills me thinking abt how this man died not knowing if his child made it out.

Adam:

How I feel about this character: I loooove him he deserved better. I relate pretty heavily to him.

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Hehe. Lawrence obviously!! Chainshipping is a HUGE comfort ship for me. BUT! Regarding the SAW polycule: Lawrence, Eric, William, Gibson, & Mallick!! + when concerning that alternative canon continuity we've been talking abt, Strahm. But only in that circumstance lol,,

My non-romantic OTP for this character: MANDY!!! In any AU where she's either not a disciple or abandoned her apprenticeship, I firmly believe that he and Amanda would be best friends. Mean gay/lesbian solidarity siblings who would fight tooth and nail for each other + who get each other on a level that not many others can. Pamela also!! Along w Mandy I like to think they talk about their experiences being trans a lot + just bitching w each other lol.

My unpopular opinion about this character: IDK how unpopular this actually is but I 100% believe that Adam would never become a disciple in any capacity, ESP not of his own accord. I genuinely think he'd rather die. That's just not something I can see him doing in any circumstance.

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: I wish someone had gotten him out of the bathroom :( And in an AU where he lives I hope someone tells him what a bastard Zep was!! No one made that dude hold a gun to Diana's head and listen to her heartbeat what the FUCK was that!!

William:

How I feel about this character: He's such a sweetheart I love him,, <33

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Lawrence & Adam <3 in the polycule though this includes Eric & Mallick!!

My non-romantic OTP for this character: He and Pamela obviously!! His sister is his best friend and they're there for each other 100%.

My unpopular opinion about this character: Much like Eric I don't think he deserved to die/that he's completely irredeemable... he fights so hard to save everyone and is utterly devastated when he can't. He's willing to hurt himself to save others (nearly dislocating his shoulders trying to keep both Addy and Allen, burning himself with the steam for Debbie, etc.) and it's like. John is always talking about how it can't be personal but it seems pretty fucking personal here!

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: The fact that nobody saw how hard he fought for his coworkers + the sacrifices he made for them upsets me to no end. That was intentional. John didn't want Tara + Brent (or Pamela for that matter!) to see him as human and that fucking bothers me!! So basically I just wish that they could've seen it via camera like literally almost every trap victim gets in some capacity!!

Mallick:

How I feel about this character: Yet another character I relate to wayyy too much <33 I love him...

All the people I ship romantically with this character: BRIT!!! + concerning the SAW polycule: Adam, Eric, William, & Lawrence!! (Art maybe too,,)

My non-romantic OTP for this character: I like to think he and Laura would've gotten along actually? I feel like that would be a good, healthy friendship. And I do like the idea of he and Brit like this too!! Other than that maybe Mandy? I feel like they could relate to each other a little bit, help each other when they're feeling brainweird,, (Mallick n Mandy: havers of Symptoms Disorder <3)

My unpopular opinion about this character: Again I don't know if it's unpopular, persay, but uh. I don't think the Mallick we meet in V would willingly sit and listen to Bobby Dagen in 3D. He'd hate that dude. My take on it is that Brit didn't survive V (although I think read somewhere that the crew confirmed she survived?) and that's why he was there: because he'd lost the one true connection he'd made in god knows how long. That's rlly the only way I see him sitting thru Dagen's bullshit lmao.

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: I wanted him to see Brit again,, and I just wanted to see him more in general tbh, esp because he makes a reappearance where so many prior Jigsaw survivors do not. I would've liked to see him interact with Simone given that they both lost a limb/nearly a limb (in Mallick's case). This is related to that, but I also wish the evidence of the 10 Pints trap wasn't just. A tiny scar? I HC that it took his whole hand, so.

Strahm:

How I feel about this character: Ohhh my beloved. Why didn't they give you a better narrative it would've been SO interesting. I love you though <3

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Honestly? Still super fond of Gibson/Strahm in a scenario where things are different,, I've written quite a bit abt them and kinda want to again but if I do it'll probably be. Not for a while + VASTLY different. but recent additions have been Hoffman (I used to. not understand Stroffman whatsoever. now I Get It) and Adam!!

My non-romantic OTP for this character: PEREZ!!! I've always thought of them as best friends since I first saw IV, and I do think he genuinely cared about her - quite a lot, actually, esp given how devastated he was when she was injured. They hang out at each other's apartments all the time + get coffee regularly. I love them.

My unpopular opinion about this character: I don't think he's a dumbass?? I don't know if that's unpopular. I think that he's IMPULSIVE and that it gets him into trouble, but Strahm has always struck me as incredibly intelligent + has a good moral compass for the most part?? I mean, he figured out there was a second apprentice (second as far as he knows, anyway) helping with traps just by examining Kerry's crime scene. I think he's VERY smart. He just acts quickly + sometimes that means there's not much planning for if things go south. (I DO agree that showing up to the packing plant w/out backup was dumb though,, doesn't mean he DESERVED the Water Cube but y'know)

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: It's not really mentioned if he does in canon, but I wish he'd been made aware of the fact that Perez was alive,, it bothers me that he might've died not knowing she was okay. The other thing is that I wish he'd survived V!!! I think it would've been WAY more narratively satisfying for him to kinda follow in Tapp's footsteps as a vigilante Jigsaw hunter. (That's why I love yr takes on him so much!!)

Rigg:

How I feel about this character: He has such a big heart. He cares so so much. I wish ppl talked about him more :(

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Gibson!!! And uhh Hoffman, but they're exes,, but! In a scenario I'm kind of going over in my head, maaaybe Adam... the basics though is that he searches the Nerve Gas House independently and somehow finds the Bathroom following II, and He is the one to rescue Adam. Very tentative abt that one though bc I'm still working it out lol. (Possibly Eric/Adam/Rigg???)

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Eric!!! His best friend <3 I think he's also pretty close with Kerry, though I think he hangs out w her independent of Eric given,, the messy ex situation. I think he probably got along well with Fisk too!! OH and I think he and Sing would've been good friends as well. The chaos of a Rigg/Gibson/Sing friend trio...

My unpopular opinion about this character: Mmm I don't know that I have one? Other than maybe like. I understood why he went through the door. He knew Eric was on the other side; he just didn't know the circumstances or what would happen if he went through. All he knew was that he was that much closer to someone he's been trying to find/rescue for MONTHS + someone he cares for deeply. Of COURSE he went through. He breaks my heart ugh,,,

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: I wish he hadn't even been tested!!!! His one flaw was that he cared about ppl and somehow John saw that as something he needed to fix!!! Like yes I do agree that it was eating away at him and the obsession might've been unhealthy, but that's two of his closest friends dude!! I don't think he deserved to be tested for that. I don't. He just wanted to help ppl and keep them safe. I absolutely despise how Rigg was treated dkjflkdf!!!!

[sometimesrosy]

Hey! I’m just curious about your opinion on why the cast (and particularly Eliza, historically) seemed to hate “Bellarke” so much? Like I think they’ve maybe warmed up a bit more to the idea of Bellamy and Clarke being “romantic” now, but I was always so confused about why Jason, Eliza and so many of the other cast members were always so harsh and critical of people shipping “Bellarke”?? Like they would almost flinch at the very mention of it?? Even tho it’s been clearly shown in the narrative??

I don’t actually think they do hate Bellarke. Not bellarke in the narrative. or the relationship of Clarke and Bellamy.

I think they hate getting harassed about it. And they have been. Both for and against.  And after awhile of getting harassed, you stop being so nice. Trust me. 

I think in season 1 even 2, they were fine with bellarke and liked it. Then JR went with the CL storyline and bellarke was pushed to the background. JR said that wasnt’ the story they were telling and told the cast not to talk about or spoil Bellarke. So they were hindered from speaking about Bellarke but that didn’t stop the fandom from pushing them on it anyway.

Whether or not that was a good idea on JR’s part is irrelevant. That’s what happened. He might have been more positive about Bellarke afterwards, if being so forthcoming with the CL fandom in season 3 hadn’t had such a devastating backlash. He got their hopes up (even though he never said they were endgame) and then she died. 

After s3. There was well a terrible time. And Eliza, in particular, was caught in the middle between CL and BC fans. If she supported one, she was attacked by the other. She won a chemistry award for her and bob, and she was BOOED on stage by the CLs there. They booed her for winning an award because it was with the wrong ship. This was actually a couple of weeks before the infamous “bellarke shit” statement. And one week before Eliza was caught in a south american airport in tears. I’m not sure Eliza was doing so well, traveling every weekend and facing tense fans and getting caught between fanwars and... if the gossip is correct, which now in retrospect seems likely. Well. 

I think that episode (bellarke shit, having fans boo her, crying in the airport) is about the time that BOB started getting serious with his ex girlfriend. And if we can believe the rumors that Bob and Eliza had a thing during filming the first couple of years, and we examine the song she wrote and posted about breaking up with someone she was in love with because she thought she wasn’t good enough for him (or something, prob get the receipts from someone else i’m not sure,) then. what we’re looking at is a woman who was still in love with her ex boyfriend, who she was ACTING with, and winning chemistry awards with, who now had a serious girlfriend, and who was also getting constant questions about when she Eliza would get together with Bob her ex boyfriend she was still in love with, on that show where they were main characters. 

Now you tell me how YOU would feel about people pestering you about the guy you would eventually marry who you had apparently lost because you couldn’t handle being with him? But it’s all fictional. And the fans LOVE them, or HATE them, and your boss told you not to talk about them, but no one will let you stop. 

Now add to that the fact that she didn’t say anything about her character that had not already been canon on screen. So. Finn was the love of her life at the time he died. Then Lxa was the love of her life after s3 for a while. Neither of these are inaccurate when people are asking her to tell the future that Clarke would not know.

But this also ignores that fact that Eliza was PRO Bellarke from after season 4 on. She’s the one who said they loved each other. Because at that point, CLARKE was head over heels with him, even though he thought she was dead.

You know what? To answer this question, you actually have to THINK about Eliza, what she was going through, what she’d been asked to do for marketing, how the fandom was working, her personal states of being, and like, you have to look at it as objectively as you can. 

WHY did she do what she did? IDK. Let me think about it. What was going on for her.

To understand what anyone does something you have to have some empathy for them, and look at them as a real person with valid motivations just like anyone else.

And not refuse to see them past the part that affects you... Bellarke affirmation.

It’s not as simple for her as it is for us fans, who are just watching a show. This is HER LIFE. 

[larstenobar]

Okay so I mentioned it in the tags but I kinda wanna talk about my experiences with So/uth Pa/rk. I say this as a cis, gay, non-Jewish man. I also say this as someone who used to actually engage with the forums on the main site. I also say this as someone who played. both the two major video game RPGs. So I am speaking not from reaction to other people’s reactions but from my own personal knowledge. This post is incredibly long so it’s under a read more. In it I provide what I believe are the actual effects of South Park on its viewership but I need to stress that I think it’s the wrong energy to blame parents for letting their children watch the show.

Don’t blame the parents, blame the show.

That show is genuinely horrible. I’ve seen a lot of people questioning how anyone could let children watch it - and to that I say you’re not adding anything to the conversation by shaming parents for letting their children watch that show. 

My own parents weren’t even out of their twenties when I watched the show, and many other parents grew up with the show as a non-issue. Young parents make mistakes.

At the time it came out and its early years only extremely vigilant parents realized how problematic the show was and the news was hard to spread without social media. At best you could inform your parent friends and hope they listened.

The show’s main characters are children, many parents found/find it hard to believe that a show with children as the main characters could be bad for those children. If the show were exactly the same but the children were college-aged then it would be another raunchy show they could easily see is not meant for their kids.

There’s a good portion of children who watched the show that weren’t actually allowed to watch it because their parents weren’t as tech savvy as them and therefore didn’t know about pirating/streaming until it was mainstream. We who grew up with YouTube knew you could put in [show] episode 1 part 1 and start watching. (this is gonna be another point later btw)

I know that it’s hard for you guys to even know all the reasons it’s problematic because you all barely scratch the surface of it’s problems. But before we even get into the meat of its problems (Science Denial, Homophobia, Transphobia, Ableism, Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, etc.) we have to look at the very premise of the show.

The main characters begin in fourth grade. Fourth Grade. There’s a phenomena in our culture where we believe that children saying stupid stuff is harmless, and we forget that when children hear children speak - even animated children - they are hearing their peers. And peers learn from each other. This is why the show is so insidious, because it makes it easier for children to digest the messages.

Another thing that’s very important to note is that - while it’s labelled satire, every single joke is played straight, and the straight man character (usually either S or Ky) are ridiculed by the culture they’re surrounded in. Don’t believe me? Think I’m over-exaggerating? Think about the election episode, where they had to pick between a literal piece of shit or a douche. Our Straightmen were constantly saying how ridiculous the situation was, but everyone around them was telling them they were the ones who were stupid for not particpating in the election until they eventually break and submit to the absurdity. This is a light example, but it’s the typical formula. If they aren’t actively participating in the absurdity around them, they’re ridiculed until they break. What this tells the audience isn’t that the people who were particpating were stupid, but that they were right.

Now that we’ve looked at the show premise, let’s get into the details. A note: This is just what I remember from approximately age 5-18, the latter years I’d been turned off from it slowly so I wasn’t as engaged but it was not any better then. Since this is just what I can remember without looking through episodes or looking up articles, this is going to be a small sampling of things that stuck with me. Be assured, there was much, much, much more.

Science Denial and its effects on the viewers.

This is the lightest thing I can recall, and probably going to be the smallest section as it’s mostly centered around their stand-in for global warming, a cryptid figure called M/an/Be/ar/P/ig. Al G/ore was painted as a desperate, raving lunatic for believing in the phenomena, and was even implied to be making it up by having him dress up as the cryptid. I don’t have to explain why this is wrong, but we need to look at the effect this had.

On the one hand it made fans think that Global Warming (as it’s something A.G. believed in) was a hoax. Furthermore, it made them believe that anyone who believed in it was telling lies, which was overwhelmingly the most progressive people. A direct effect of these jokes (which they apologized for but never stopped propagating btw, MBP was still a joke when I stopped watching) was that progressives were seen as over-dramatic and stupid.

Now, I am not saying people watched these shows and immediately thought “oh wow, how fucking stupid of A.G. I don’t believe in climate change anymore.” It’s more like this: “Oh haha, S thinks A.G. is annoying, I like S so I agree, A.G. is annoying. You know, A.G. is kinda annoying with all that global warming, maybe there’s something to him being over-dramatic? Gosh why can’t these progressives see that it’s not that big of a deal. If they trust A.G. then they MUST be blowing other things out of proportion.” That’s the thought processes it trains its viewers to have.

LGBT+ Characters

Okay so there’s actually a lot of things that go into the Homophobia of S/P. And it goes back to the very beginning of the show, and is both explicit and implicit. There is a huge problem with these, but the main problem isn’t so much that they exist, but the show’s attitude towards their own ‘jokes’ and the ways in which fans suck up that thought process.

Before I get into this, there were some things that I need to say in favor of the show - not because I think the show deserve praise, but because there were some things that I latched onto and showed a surprising nuance. There’s like one thing, really but it is, of course, attached to something that’s a much larger issue within the show, so while it is a small glimmer, it’s in no way outshining any of the problems in the show.

For a while, the teacher underwent gender reassignment when he (the teacher currently identifies as male from my last interaction with the show) got breast implants and presumably bottom surgery (I vaguely remember a surgery but honestly that could be an invention) he was in a gay relationship. His then boyfriend had a very heartfelt and difficult conversation about how he still cared about him and how he’ll never hate him for being the woman that he wanted to be, but there was no way that he could pursue a relationship with him. I thought that this was a very mature depiction of a very difficult situation that is never really talked about. However, as I implied earlier, this is attached to a larger issue. Before any of you start having second thoughts about your ideas about S/P’s portrayal of gay and trans people, immediately after getting broken up with the teacher became violently homophobic as a backlash, I vaguely recall a group being formed.

Our main examples of LGBT individuals in the show are these big four (five?):

The afforementioned teacher

The teacher’s boyfriend, who wears leather gear at school and can’t stop talking kink even in front of the child characters

A character called B/ig G/ay A/l who is just as stereotypical as his name implies.

T/weak and C/raig, who are classmates of the focal characters. There’s a lot of reasons this is problematic, none of them being the age of those involved in the relationship - but the portrayal of them is hugely problematic.

Since I’ve already touched on the teacher, we’ll get into them first. When he was introduced, he was a sort of ambiguously gay character who was very bitchy and spoke with a slight lisp that eventually became a canon gay character with his relationship with the Kink Character. He was violently hateful towards his class, verbally abusing them all the time and often particpating in bullying children. Furthermore he’s seen as incompetent. This is problematic not because he’s a gay man doing this (though it’s not great either) but because this taught children that teachers don’t care about them and that they shouldn’t listen to them because they don’t know what they’re talking about anyways. This goes into their anti-intellectual stance mentioned earlier. It enforces the idea that education systems are useless, not because of the institutional problems they have with racism, but because of the incompetence of the system.

Going back to the point of this, still with the same character, let’s further explore the problems they had when the teacher had an arc as a trans woman. Honestly, I didn’t pay much attention to it, but the show made a point to let you know that the other characters were uncomfortable when Mr. G became Ms. G. The most damning thing about this, however, is the fact that Mr. G detransitioned bc he realized he wasn’t a straight woman, just a gay man. I think this is problematic because it frames transitioning as a sexual strategy. I don’t think I have to go into detail on why that’s problematic. And while this isn’t actually a tie into how horrible their handling of this character is, it should be noted that he’s the character that went on to be their T/rump stand-in.

The next character is the Kink Man.

God, the character’s personality isn’t actually all that bad. He’s loving and caring and empathetic and actually usually on the right side of topics, but. He doesn’t separate his kink from his personal life. He’s always strutting around in leather-daddy gear and has a lisp. His name is literally Mr. S/lave. There was an episode where he shoved a hamster in his ass. To viewers, he represents the dirty gays that keep shoving their sex-life down their throats - and this view is never, ever, ever subverted, so since the show never makes fun of people for having that view it reinforces that idea in their minds.

Honestly the least problematic character of the LGBT characters that I mentioned was BGA. He’s still a stereotype, yeah, he has a gay dog and is super flamboyant and constantly talks about how proud he is but honestly that’s not really all that bad. I can’t directly recall anything bad about him except that he’s incredibly flamboyant, speaks with a lisp, and loves to call things he owns “BGA’s Big Gay [noun].” Relatable. That doesn’t mean there was nothing problematic, it just doesn’t immediately come to me.

Now, for the next most problematic “representation” in the show. First, T&C showed no signs of actually being gay before. I do recall them both being my favorite characters before they became a couple, however. T is a coffee addict which has some suspect aspects we’ll get into later, and C used to flip everyone off. This was why they were my favorites. They became gay literally when fangirls started shipping them in the show. I’m sure there was an actual fandom movement, but their getting together was incredibly forced - that was part of the joke btw, that gay shipping is always forced. What’s horrible about this is that this was in an episode about ya/oi.

Now, let’s try to dissect this issue. First off, what this tells viewers is that being gay was not a natural part of who they were, but was an active choice (if you’re being kind) or something society forced on them (if you’re not.) The two were actively fighting with the narrative that they were gay and in a relationship. I think their actual agreement for being boyfriends was more of a mutual public display than an actual relationship, but it’s a fuzzy memory because that whole episode felt like a fever dream.

What’s worse about this, is that the show actually displayed ya/oi depictions of these children within the show. Nothing NSFW, but clearly sexually charged situations were definitely shown. At the time, they were 5th graders. 9/10 year olds for those not in the states. This emboldened actual CT shippers “If the show could do it, then so can I” was the general mentality on the forums I was on. So we can talk on pedophilia to reasons why this show is awful.

And those are just the named recurring characters. Another commonly recurring character is a prostitute with a deep voice who is very sloppy looking that, from my recollection, is implied to be a transwoman. This might have just been a conclusion I drew when I was young however - but even that is reason to be critical of the character, that such a conclusion could even be drawn means it might have played a factor in the character’s inception.

They also “Solved Overpopulation” with a gay orgy. I don’t have the language to define why this sat so wrong with me, but I remember being very deeply hurt by it. I think it has something to do with the idea that homosexuality is a choice and that it should only be accepted because of the potential benefits it has for population control.

Islamophobia and Racism

Okay so I’m just gonna come out the gate by saying that they fought hard to depict the prophet Mohammad. Like, hard. And they did it twice - one time went almost unnoticed but the second had a huge backlash from the Islamic people. For those who aren’t aware, it’s sacrilege to depict Mohammad. It’s like desecrating a church, maybe worse - I really have no frame of reference for how bad it’s viewed, but however bad it is, it still boils down to being a strict taboo that S/P broke not once, but twice.

Now, as I keep reminding, my memory gets hazy for many things, especially things I wasn’t aware of being insensitive early on. I have vague memories of terrorists being depicted in traditional Sikh garb, and similar instances of directly relating Islam with terrorism. I don’t recall the show ever making fun of anyone for relating Muslims with terrorism, for all those fans out there saying they make fun of everyone.

There was an episode where the characters wore blackface. There’s a black character literally named t/oken b/lack. Sure, that could be satire and maybe even be defended if they subverted the trope, however it should be noted he’s not the only black character in the show! There was an episode where there was a child adopted from Africa whose name escapes me - he was emaciated and devoured food at an alarming rate and generally was a nuisance if I remember correctly.

There was an instance where one of the main character’s father was on Wheel of Fortune. The category was people who annoy you. the letters on the board were ‘N_ggers.’ You know where this is going, the father said the N-word. The word was really naggers, but the rest of the episode was a sympathetic journey with him dealing with being ostracized. He became known as an ‘n-word guy’ which was treated as a worse term within the universe. I say this because a law was passed where the phrase was outlawed and they said you had to have a space of at least 5 words between ‘n-word’ and ‘guy’. Also, the n-word was said multiple times by a number of white characters. Now, I know the argument people make about this episode. They say that we were supposed to find the scanario ridiculous, but the issue I take with it is more that we’re led to feel sympathetic to racists who’ve had their lives ruined for being racist. That’s the issue with South Park’s brand of ‘satire’. It satirizes one issue, but doesn’t touch on the problematic things used to support that satire.

Almost every single Mexican character is a stereotype of some sort. Either a laborer who can barely speak English, a gangbanger, or some other stereotype. There was an episode where they had C’s hand become a famous Latina popstar by singing about Mexican Food themed songs, like the actual songs ‘T/aco F/lavored K/isses’ and ‘T/aco B/urrito’. The hand’s name was Jennifer Lopez, I don’t know of these songs are direct parodies bc I’ve only heard Jenny From the Block.

And while S/P tends to stay away from very direct anti-black jokes, they don’t shy away from other races. There’s an asian character whose business is called ‘c/ity wok’, but he always pronounces it ‘shitty’ because the joke here is ‘oh haha asians have funny accents’ and literally nothing else. I honestly believe that asians receive the WORST treatment on S/P when it comes to facing racism, but I’m not qualified to make that claim. Other examples of anti-asian racism: There was an pokemon episode where they said that Japan was using anime to indoctrinate youth, they literally had the kids operate fighter jets to make an attack on the U.S. What’s worse about this, is that whenever the Japanese execs were questioned about this, every time, they dropped their pants to show how small their penises were and how they should be pitied for it. Another instance, I very strongly remember a depiction of asian characters as being lemon yellow with eyes like this: \ /. There was an episode where they had Asians violently murder whales with glee. They lean into anti-asian racism so much harder than any other form of racism - the only thing they’re worse about is their antisemitism, which will get its own section later.

Antisemitism

God there’s so much. Jew Gold, nazi imagery, the entirety of c/a/r/t/m/a/n as a character and there are so many posts on this website by people much more qualified than me to delve into what exactly is wrong with this and the depictions of it, so I’m mostly just going to catalog what comes to mind and then speak about the actual factual instances of S/P inspired antisemitism I’ve witnessed and been party to.

There was an episode devoted to Jewish people having a secret bit of gold around their necks. This was proven true in the universe when Ky gave up his ‘J*w Gold’ to C.

Ky’s mom is such an overbearing harpy who bulldozes over everyone, this was later explained as her having Jersey-Blood (yes this was a Jersey Shore joke) but before that it was completely because she was a proud Jewish woman.

Ky’s father is depicted as weak-willed and piddling. He always wears a yarmulke no matter the situation.

Ky is often depicted as being whiny and non-commital

OF ALL THE CHARACTERS, KY IS THE ONE WHO IS DEPICTED AS A HYPOCRITE THE MOST

Ky’s cousin with the same name is depicted as in poor health, complains about everything, whines about things not being fair bc they don’t go his way, and has caricatured Jewish features

As mentioned above, there are hosts of Nazi imagery associated with C

C has said every Jewish slur I have ever heard. In fact he introduced me to the concept of antisemitism

Ky, in a Christmas episode, is depicted as wishing he could celebrate Christmas and Hanukkah is depicted as a sort of consolation prize that’s Not As Good.

Ky’s father was an internet troll, and the trolls were. literal trolls. with certain features that are not great.

The following image is the Prophet Moses:

And there’s more and more and more. I will not accept anyone saying that this is just jokes because I know firsthand how insidious their treatment of Jewish people is because this show literally made me think it was okay to engage in Antisemitism. I made greedy jokes, like saying a got J**ed when i was screwed over, or that someone who was being greedy was being a J*w. I am not proud of this, and I think I grew out of it relatively quickly as I dropped that language in middle school.

But not everyone did. Even some of my closest friends were still saying they got J**ed when we were graduating high school. There were no Jewish people at my school, so there was no humanizing face for the Jewish people for us. Thank god for the Nanny or who knows what kind of person I’d be now. There were people even worse than me, I should mention. There was one person in my school who literally used J*w as a stand-in for loser because of this show. This show was the only interaction with the Jewish faith that most of my classmates ever had, and the same is true of many rural towns in America who have only Protestant populations.

Fatphobia

All the most unlikeable characters are fat. C. Ky’s mom. The gun-toting republican. And there are other specific episodes where they equate fatness to not being healthy. In their episode partnered with WoW (don’t forget that happened, y’all) the main antagonist was depicted as a no-life having loser and he was, surprise, fat. This show draws a very direct line between being fat and being unlikeable.

Sexism

God, the portrayal of women is so horrible, literally my only entry here is going to be one single link:

Note all the other isms depicted in this btw.

Substance Abuse

The prostitute mentioned in the LGBT section would wander into scenes screaming about how she wanted crack. There was an episode where they created a league of basketball players who were comprised entirely of ‘crack babies.’ I’m being generous by not putting that in the racism section because most of the babies were BIPOC which says something about the kind of people that M/att and T/rey think are addicts.

The character T/owelie is supposed to show an addict, but his addiction is literally just weed which means they’re claiming weed is addictive.

I can’t even begin to describe the show’s relationship to alcohol. As a child of an alcoholic, I can say that it’s not fucking cute that they made S’s dad a violent drunk. It’s genuinely scary to see your parent fly into a rage because of their alcoholism and them reducing it to a joke was, I think, one of the points where the ‘it’s just a joke’ mentality started to break for me personally. 

While we’re on the subject of parents, C’s mom was literally a crack addict who was also a full service sex worker. The correlation is not sympathetic in the slightest. And even worse was Ke’s parents. They were depicted as abusive, neglectful, drug-addicted rednecks. This was sometimes played to make you sympathize with Ke, and it worked because even now I can hardly think of how Ke himself was problematic rather than the situations he was in. (He’s the one who gets gruesomely murdered every episode) I don’t know if this is because of selective memory, if he was genuinely just the least problematic in the show, or if I’m waxing nostalgic for the show. Regardless, as I said, his situation was mostly played for sympathy. However, it was also played for jokes almost as often.

Pedophilia

The children are put in sexual situations a nonzero amount of times, they make priest molestation jokes, and they made jokes about MJ.

Slurs

Yeah they said them a lot. There was the aforementioned N-Word Guy episode, but there was also an episode that thinly mirrored immigrants coming to America for work and the people (time-travelers) were called ‘Goobacks’. I think the word ch*nk was used a nonzero amount of times, C used every slur for Jewish people in the book. None of these were censored by the show, any censoring was done by networks.

Why make this post?

Because I know people know this show is garbage, but I think it’s important that people know why it’s garbage with specific and nonspecific instances of why the show was problematic.

[ronanlyncx]

the best parts of the dream thieves (featuring me crying pt. 2)

part one

- “Ronan was everything that was left: molten eyes and a smile made for war” 

- Ronan’s second secret #gay

- Gansey: “i would have thought you had more muscles. Don’t feminist have big muscles?” i just want to punch him can someone please punch him

- gansey calling ronan an incredible creature #gay 

- “The elderly made ronan anxious” bitch me too!!!

- Ronan wanting to race kavinsky in the pig and adam is like dude no there is like 5 people in here we weigh too much and ronan goes: “noah doesn’t count” “Hey!” “You’re dead!” i love these nerds

- Gansey: “am I in your dreams?” Ronan: “Oh yes, baby” i hate him jsjksksk

- “Ronan sometimes dreamt of Adam, too” #gay

- Gansey and Ronan going to get orange juice at 3:32 am 

- “Unlike some people, my sense of worth isn’t tied into my occupation.” “Ooooooh,” Orla crowed… she traded her Henrietta accent for a gloriously snotty version of the Old South. “Someone’s been hanging out with Richard Campbell Gansey the third too much.” orla just came for blue’s life holy shit 

- “Jane!” “It’s a wizard in box.” “It will do your homework.” “And it’s been dating your girlfriend.” “Are you all drunk?” hey quick question wtf am i reading

- “Why is the tea so good here?” “I spit in it” Blue Sargent is an icon

“Blue Sargent was pretty in a way that was physically painful to him. He was attracted to her like a heart attack.” not to sound like a cheesy white lady or anything but this shit breathtaking bro

- “What do you want, Adam? What do you need, Adam?… Freedom, autonomy, a perennial bank balance, a stainless steel condo in a dustless city, a silky black car, to make out with Blue, eight hours of sleep, a cell phone, a bed, to kiss Blue just once, a blister-less heel, bacon for breakfast, to hold Blue’s hand, one hour of sleep, toilet paper, deodorant, a soda, a minute to close his eyes. What do you want, Adam? To feel awake when my eyes are open.” PROTECT THIS ANGEL GET HIM SOME TOILET PAPER WTF (also notice how what he wants continues to drop in difficulty to acquire this is so sad i’m literally a mess) 

- “You be careful, Adam Parrish. ‘Cause one day you might get what you ask for. There might be girls in Henrietta who’ll let you talk to them like that, but i’m not one of them.” i really love this woman

- “He [Gansey] was bare-legged and sockless in his Top-Siders and very clearly a real human, an attainable human, and this, somehow, made Ronan want to smash his fist through a wall” #gay

-  “Adam thinks he saw an apparition at his place” Ronan eyed Noah, “I’m seeing an apparition right now.” this entire relationship is just ronan roasting noah have you ever seen anything so pure

- Noah freaking out about the glitter in the snowglobe #angel

- Ronan paying Adam’s rent i am alive

- Gansey comparing Blue to a platypus

- “He threw me out the window!” “You’re already dead!” amazing

- Blue wanting to get Adam high so he can relax seriously someone let this boy take a nap

- Noah: “Is crack the same thing as speed?” 

- Ashley not going into St. Agnes bc she “refuses to participate in a ceremony that doesn’t allow equal spiritual privileges to women”  NICE

- Ronan dreaming kavinsky a replica of his white sunglasses after kavinsky gave him a copy of ronan’s leather bands #pettygay

- “and he was the boy with the most beautifully interesting car and the most savagely handsome of friends, Ronan Lynch” #gay

- Gansey: “I love this car. I should buy four more of them. I’ll just open the door of one and fall into the other. One can be a living room, one can be by kitchen, I’ll live in one…” what...the fuck

- Declan coming to give gansey a new battery for the pig and Ronan actually doing the most™ “He hurriedly sprawled back in the seat, throwing one jean-covered leg over the top of Adam’s and laying his head in a posture of thoughtless abandon. By the time Declan arrived, Ronan looked as if he had been asleep for days.” this is so extra omfgggg

- “His [Declan’s] gaze followed his brother’s leg to where it rested on top of Adam’s, and his expression tightened.” dude ronan even your brother is noticing your crush u gotta do better

- Gansey thinking that Ronan tried to kill himself after all this time and then finding out that Ronan was attacked by a dream demon thing #shook

- Gansey and Ronan fighting a different dream demon thing with a box cutter and a crowbar how are these children alive 

- “She [Blue] wore a dress Ronan thought looked like a lampshade. Whatever sort of lamp it belonged on, Gansey clearly wished he had one. Ronan wasn’t a fan of lamps.” This is the least subtle homosexuality metaphor i have ever read in my life (also: Gansey crushing on Blue #nice)

- refer to this post 

- “Let’s just go on before Gansey has time to say something that makes me hate him” lmao

- “The air was stained permanently with the pleasant odor of Ronan’s childhood: hickory smoke and boxwood, grass and seed and lemon cleaner. ‘I remember,’ Gansey said thoughtfully to Ronan, ‘when you used to smell like this’” #gay

- Dream toaster

- “I am being perfectly fucking civil” #iconic

- “Don’t fucking swear” #iconic pt 2

- Calla preforming arial yoga through the continuation of Ronan’s reading 

- The entire time they are on the boat adam and gansey have the biggest hard-ons for orla and blue wants to die/kill them and ronan is disgusted 

- ronan complains about the heat like 600 times i love my dramatic son

- Gansey finding the skin of blue’s calf more “tantalizing” than orla’s entire torso boiiiii if u dont get!!!!!

- “Blue cheerfully spit a mouthful of brown water on his boat shoes.” she’s doing god’s work

- “He was struck by what a glorious and fearless animal Blue Sargent was.” I’m emo

- “Gansey, pacing next to his ruined miniature Henrietta, set his eyes on Ronan. There was something intense and heedless in them. There were many versions of Gansey, but this one had been rare since the introduction of Adam’s taming presence.” The fact that adam calms gansey down is so pure and i cannot believe this is canon (also: blue also calms gansey down... i love my bisexual son)

- Gansey being badass asf when him and ronan go to confront kavinsky about breaking in the apartment and ronan going super heart-eyes 

- also i am convinced that this scene is dick’s bi awakening

- “…Gansey leaving for D.C. without him was unbearable. They had been a two-headed creature for so long, Ronan-and-Gansey. He couldn’t say it, though. There were a thousand reason’s why he couldn’t say it” #GAY

- “While i’m gone, dream me the world. Something new for every night.” #REALLYGAY

- no one in fox way can work a cellphone maura literally had to get blue to make the gray man’s voicemail work

- Ronan blowing a kiss to gansey and adam when they are flying away in the helicopter i fucking hate him jsjsjs

- Helen asking if Adam wants to go into the whole foods with her and adam just stares at her. me too buddy

- “’Pigmy Pouters. Feisty ones!’ Gansey mouthed Blue at Adam. Adam let out a little wail of helpless laughter.” adam parrish laughing: a concept

-  Blue finally admitting to herself that she likes Gansey while laying in his bed

- “I’d ask you out, if i was alive” “i’d say yes” :(((((

- the fact that adam’s dad actually pushed my manz down the stairs at one point i will personally fight robert parrish

- “This is Adam Parrish. Shake his hand. He’s more clever than I am. One day we’ll be throwing one of these shindigs for him.” MY HEART

- Adam literally filling up a whole page describing helen #bi

- when helen asks why ronan wasn’t with them, adam and gansey both get the mental image of the house burning down lmao

- “you gonna race with those shades on, you Bulgarian mobster Jersey trash piece of shit?” he’s so elegant with words!!!1111!!!

- Ronan thinking Kavinsky is beautiful um this is gross but #gay 

- Gansey calling Blue to calm him down just because she makes him feel “uneven and shattered” im fucking emo

- Kavinsky calling gansey literally anything BUT his name: “Dick three” “dick dick dick” “Dickie”

- Ronan figuring out how to master his dreams and then leaving kavinsky #scammer

- to be honest i cannot believe helen and gansey managed to convince adam about the hondoyota with the literal SKIT they used 

- “HEY, OLD MAN!” “Ronan!” ANGELS

- ronan apologizing for wrecking the pig and Gansey actually not believing his ears.

- “Hey, Churchill tried to negotiate with hitler.” “Did he?” don’t argue with boat shoe about history this man will rip you to shreds

- pink switchblade

- “Times circular, chicken”

- BLUE GOING OFF ON ADAM IM JUST ABOUT TO QUOTE THE WHOLE ROAST

- THE WHOLE ROAST: “Politics! I have no interest. Voting? What? I forgot my apron. I think I ought to be in the kitchen right now, actually. My rolling pin-” “i didn’t know that you-” “thats my point! did it even occur to you? You wouldn’t have gone someplace without Gansey, though. You two make a grand couple! kiss him! (lmao) Well, i don’t want to be just someone to kiss. I want to be a real friend, too. Not just someone who’s fun to have around because- because I have breast!” GO OFF BITCHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Adam calling Blue a raging feminist like do boys not know that this is a complement like yes this is the angle i am going for thanks for noticing

- Gansey and Blue’s first drive together #i #am #emo

- “Jane, in this light you... Jesus. Jesus. I’ve got to get my head straight.” MURDER ME

- When Adam woke up at fox way after being asleep for 24 hours or whatever he drank four glasses for pomegranate juice and three cups of tea and then left in the span of ten minutes. i know sometimes these kids act like they are 50 years old but....this is a teenage boy 

- “It was against Ronan’s nature to appear overly interested in anything.” HES SO EXTRA 

- Grey man: “But it wasn’t personal.” Ronan: “It. Was. To. Me.” :((((((((((( also i’m pretty sure neil josten said the same thing to that police officer one time i love parallels. 

- “when ronan thought of gansey, he thought moving into monmouth manufacturing, of nights spent in companionable insomnia, of a summer searching for a king, of gansey asking for the grey man for his life. Brothers.” kill. me. 

- kavinsky dying #goodshit 

[fromchaos]

50 ~little sarchengsey things~

1. who is the early bird/ who is the night owl?

well,,, they are all modern day teens, so not a single one is actually an early bird. normal bedtime for blue and henry is 1-2am, and gansey joins them when he thinks he can sleep. henry is best at mornings tho.

2. who is the big spoon/ who is the little spoon?

i’ve said it before and i will say it again: blue is the supreme big spoon. she hates being in the middle. if gansey’s insomnia is flaring up, henry goes in the middle. if henry’s claustrophobia is worse that night, gansey goes in the middle.

3. who hogs the cover/ who loves to cuddle?

they all love to cuddle when they’re awake/falling asleep, but they are all rude and grabby when they’re unconscious. the first few weeks they share a bed, blue regularly wakes up on the floor having pulled the covers so hard she launched herself off the side.

4. who wakes the other one up with kisses?

blue or henry depending on who wakes up first. blue cares more about morning breath, so she does it less often than henry. gansey has either been up all night and is too exhausted to be super affectionate or he’s too in his head when he wakes up naturally and sort of forgets the others are there. however, he very much likes morning kisses from his bf and gf U u U

5. who usually has nightmares?

HOO BOY. MORE LIKE WHO DOESN”T, AM I RIGHT LADIES?

6. who would have really deep emotional thoughts at the middle of the night/ who would have them in the middle of the day? 

even tho gansey has terrible insomnia, i feel like he usually distracts himself and tries to stuff down the deep thoughts in the middle of the night, though he will engage in deep discussions with blue at 3am bc she likes it. henry’s late night thoughts are just faux-deep shitposts. then the next day they’re looking at the world’s biggest rubber band ball and gansey and henry are having existential crises. 

7. who sweats the small stuff?

ganseyyyboyyy does (but i think he’s also weirdly more zen after his 2nd death). he’s haywire in everyday life and deathly calm in a calamity. blue will get stressed if there’s A LOT of small stuff all building up at the same time, but is normally chill. henry can seem like a bit of a mess under pressure but actually things work out weirdly well for him most of the time. (think dirk gently lmfao)

8. who sleeps in their underwear (or naked)/ who sleeps in their pajamas?

i don’t think any of them have proper pajamas? comfy t-shirts and underwear all around. especially henry and blue stealing gansey’s t-shirts and underwear to sleep in.

9. who makes the coffee (or tea)?

gansey and henry each brought their own french press on the roadtrip lmfao. gansey usually winds up making it tho because one time henry was dared to mix a monster energy drink and black coffee and chug it by lee^2 and it killed his taste buds and his caffeine tolerance so he makes his way too strong now. blue starts the roadtrip hating coffee but by the end she’s a caffeine demon living off of gas station sludge.

10. who likes sweet/ who likes sour?

blue likes the two together (idk i find yogurt a bit of both so). gansey doesn’t really have a taste for either; he likes blander savory foods. henry likes sweet things, but more rich-sweet than sugar-sweet.

11. who likes horror movies/ who likes romance movies?

i can’t imagine any of them being super into horror??? if they watch a horror movie it’s just to rip apart the lore for inaccuracy. gansey and henry like romcoms and have to bribe blue to watch them with them. gansey’s faves are love actually and notting hill, and henry’s are you’ve got mail and he’s just not that into you.

12. who is smol/ who is tol?

blue < gansey < henry

that’s pretty much canon, but body type-wise i think blue is chubby all-over, gansey is pretty solidly built w/ broad shoulders, and henry is skinny but with a small beer belly lmao.

13. who is considered the scaredy cat?

tbh i don’t think any of them really fit that role? and when they do it’s because they’re traumatized??? i just can’t see them teasing each other for being afraid because they all know TRUE BONE-DEEP HORROR.

14. who kills the spiders?

blue carries the spiders outside. henry screams and gets up on the couch. gansey either doesn’t notice or just freezes in fear.

15. who is scared of the dark?

none of them usually? but certain scenarios can give any of them flashbacks, so i’d say more wary than scared?

16. who is scared of thunderstorms?

i could see henry being a little afraid of thunderstorms? and gansey is autistic, so he HATES thunder but isn’t exactly scared of it.

17. who works/ who stays at home?

they all work, but i’m not sure any of them have traditional 9 to 5 jobs? when they have kids, they probably spend equal amounts of time at home taking care of them. blue travels less at that point, but is sometimes gone for longer periods of time that she makes up for with long periods of time spent at home.

18. who is a cat person/ who is a dog person?

they are all cat people. blue loves all animals, but if she were to get her own pets, they would be cats. i’ve written about it before, but they have so many cats. they adopt like 5 and feed all the neighborhood strays and let them roam in and out of their home.

19. who loves to call the other one cute names?

oh wow NO IDEA who could that possibly be???

20. who is dominant/ who is submissive?

literally the only person gansey could dom is ronan r u kidding me?? that boy is subbier than a 5 dollar foot long. (then blue and henry are about equally weighted toward dom, like 6 or 7 on a scale of 1 to 10)

21. who has an obsession (over anything)?

obsession is literally what brings them together. they recognize that intense passion that drives all of them in each other. none of them could be with someone who wasn’t completely obsessed with something because it shows a lack of that passion. also, they’re totally obsessed with each other.

22. who goes all out for valentine’s day?

is it weird that i think it’s blue? she goes on some tirade about the commercialization of valentine’s day, how it’s a bullshit hallmark holiday, how it makes single people feel less than, blah blah blah, so henry and gansey figure they should keep it lowkey and just have a normal date or something. BUT the day-of blue has made them both extravagant cards and thoughtful homemade gits. because authentic love is best honored with DIY. (blue contains multitudes, y’all.)

23. who asks who out on the first date?

this is hard?? what’s a year-long roadtrip other than one humongous first date to woo your third partner? but real talk, post-trk, gansey realizes he and blue have never had an official date but also the only place in henrietta is nino’s and u can’t go on a date to a place u work, so they just go out for drives like they did before. and drives turn into daytrips. and datetrips turn into “oh henry you have to come with, you’d just love this place!” and suddenly polyamory happens.

24. who is the talker/ who is the listener? 

this like,,, isn’t really how relationships work lmfao. gansey is the most genuinely extroverted (henry can be super extroverted obviously, but that’s 50% for show), but unless the topic of discussion is one of his special interests, he’s more of an active listener than a talker. but a conversation with these 3 is basically all of them taking turns ranting because they are all very opinionated and have a lot to say.

25. who wears the other ones clothes?

blue will steal ur clothes and transform them so completely u hardly notice. both her and henry like wearing gansey’s shirts as pajamas, but they are all such different sizes and have such different styles that actual borrowing isn’t all that common. (tho blue does make clothes for henry pretty often)

26. who likes to eat healthy/ who loves junk food?

i don’t think any of them are super obsessed or even like,,, concerned with eating healthy, and they all have a good appetite for junk. henry probably has the most balanced diet tho because mrs. woo made all the litchfield boys eat dinner together on weeknights. (think traditional korean cuisine meets deep south comfort food, both of which love their side dishes) meanwhile, blue’s idea of a balanced meal is the signature dish of each 300 fox way lady and a yogurt. and gansey is an autistic boy who has been feeding himself for a few years, so he eats the same 3 things in various combinations.

27. who takes a long shower/ who sings in the shower?

blue is used to taking super fast showers with orla banging on the bathroom door, and gansey is perfectly perfunctory when it comes to hygiene, so henry. he makes 45 minute pop-filled playlists for his showers.

28. who is the book worm?

gansey. the others love reading and learning for sure, but gansey is the one with the overflowing bookshelves, half full of books he hasn’t read yet. and blue and henry like listening to him rambling about his recent reads like a human audio book because he’s a pretty good storyteller.

29. who is the better cook?

henry is the best cook, and he makes most of their meals once they’re settled down and living together. litchfield definitely had a chore wheel and all the boys took turns helping mrs. woo cook. gansey is used to eating takeout all the time, and blue only eats yogurt.

30. who likes long walks on the beach?

blue!!! she sees the ocean for the first time on the road trip and loooooves it. she’ll let the boys bury her in the sand without fuss because it’s like a lil warm cocoon. she doesn’t go too deep in the water, but she likes standing where the waves break and looking for signs of life underneath the sand. henry and gansey grew up taking vacations to tropical beaches on the reg, so it’s nothing novel or special for them, but they love seeing it through blue’s eyes!!!

31. who is more affectionate?

well i think it depends on the type of affection?? (warning: this is really fucking gay) henry is the most verbally affectionate with all the nicknames and the affirmations and the enthusiasm. sometimes he’s more reserved with deeper emotional statements, but he’s never cold or distant. blue is the most physically affectionate, wanting to be constantly touching and feeling her boys beside her. she always has an arm around someone’s waist or a hand on someone’s knee to ground them and herself. and with gansey it’s all in the eyes and the gestures. he’ll look at them like they’re magic and then suggest the perfect thing they need right at that moment. 

32. who likes to have really long (deep) conversation?

blue and gansey have really long deep conversations together where they dance around and circumnavigate the issues. henry cuts straight to the point in deep conversations because he’s been thinking about the thing for ages and just wants to get to the point and know their answers already.

33. who would wear “not guilty” t-shirt/ who would wear “sin” t-shirt?

oh jeez. either blue and gansey wear “not guilty” and henry wears “sin” or gansey and henry just dress normally while blue wears the “sin” t-shirt while trying to look her most badass?

34. who would wear “if lost return to…” t-shirt/ who would wear “i am…” t-shirt?

the boys definitely wear “if lost return to blue sargent.” someone has to be the sensible one.

35. who goes overboard on the holidays?

they probably all do in their own special ways. blue spends all of december making gifts for her loved ones that are filled with love and couldn’t come from anyone else. gansey gets people the one big perfect present he definitely spent way too much money on. henry overwhelms them with multiple small presents, each inspired by an inside joke they share or an offhand comment the person made and winds up spending as much as gansey.

36. who is the social media addict?

idk if he’s a social media ADDICT, but henry uses social media the most. blue grew up without a home computer or a smart phone, and gansey uses both for only 3 things: schoolwork, research, and GPS. so henry is really the only one that uses social media a Normal Teenager Amount. and he loves memes.

37. height difference or age difference?

height difference. i’d say gansey has 6 inches on blue and henry has 6 inches on him, so sometimes when they stand or walk together they look like cellular bars.

38. who likes to star gaze?

all of them. stargazing is one of their go-to date activities, especially for blue and gansey since it reminds them of their early days. they both have special individual things they do with henry too, of course.

39. who buys cereal for the prize inside?

either blue or henry depending on the prize. blue never got prizes as a kid bc they only bought generic cereal in the big plastic bags, and now she is living The High Life (more like the small luxury millennial life). henry is probably the one that first points out the cereals with the best prizes. gansey eats the cereal because he lovs the cronch.

40. who is the fun parent/ who is the responsible parent?

i feel like they have pretty good balance here?? gansey is a professor/writer so he stays at home with the kids most often and is about the same proportion of stern/pushover with them as he is with ronan in canon lmfao. the more deeply involved in a project he is, the more he can be convinced to let the rules slide. 

henry is an environmental activist with a nonprofit and an occasional lobbyist, so he has much more typical 9-5 hours. he is probably much more fun than gansey, but their kids think he is insufferably, adorably uncool with his retro pop music and graphic tees under blazers and nicknames. 

blue does ecological field research for weeks at a time and then comes home and writes papers for the next few months. she has 2 competing desires as a parent: 1. make up for lost time with lots of spoiling and 2. make up for lost discipline and moral instruction with lots of discourse.

41. who cries during sad movies? 

gansey and henry cry really easily at sad movies but like,,, rarely cry over real life stuff. meanwhile, blue is the opposite because she’s pretty bad at suspending her disbelief when interacting with fiction.

42. who is the neat freak?

i think blue and henry butt heads a little bit here because blue likes for everything to have its place and hates actual mess and unclean things BUT her idea of neat is a lot more cluttered and homey, very much inspired by 300 fox way. henry doesn’t clean often, but when he does he wants things to ACTUALLY be neat and tidy and put away. 

meanwhile, gansey has his office where chaos rules and only he knows where anything is.

43. who wins the stuffed animals at the carnival for the other one?

they probably go to a carnival or town fair on their road trip and gansey and henry compete to get blue stuffed animals (only 50% ironically) and blue gets mad and gets her own damn stuffed animal and then for good measure one for each of her boys.

44. who is active/ who is lazy?

idk about “”active”” as in fit and sporty but blue likes to keep herself busy. she always has 5 projects going and likes to get out of the house at least once a day even if it’s just for a walk around the block. gansey has homebody phases and active phases. henry feels like he works pretty hard and has enough adventures to justify a little bit of lazing about the house.

45. who is more likely to get drunk?

i mean, on the road trip if they’re drinking, they pretty much always all get drunk together unless a designated driver is needed in which case they take turns. gansey has the lowest tolerance tho, so he’s always first to get drunk.

and while henry and gansey are at school together, blue gets a lot of midnight facetime calls from her boys, sloppy drunk and over-affectionate and cute.

46. who has the longer food order?

it’s definitely gansey, and it’s definitely 50% a picky eater thing and 50% an entitled rich white man thing. like, okay, gansey ii seems like a good dad but he’s definitely that guy whose like “i’m a paying customer i deserve to get exactly what i want and am paying for,” and gansey sort of grew up seeing that as pretty normal, so he gives all sorts of unnecessary extra instructions to the waiter.

blue’s like “u know u can just tell them u don’t want pickles or onions on the burger, right? u don’t have to teach them step-by-step how to grill it. the waiter isn’t even cooking ur burger, tho know she is definitely spitting on it.”

henry chimes in a very helpful “yeah, stop mansplaining the burger.”

47. who has the more complex coffee order?

henry. gansey likes black coffee or ridiculous fraps, no in between. blue gets really simple coffees and totally makes them over at the counter w/ the cinnamon and vanilla and cocoa shakers. meanwhile, henry has to inquire as to whether the beans are ethically sourced and ask about all the specials and what is most popular and what does the barista like best and after all that just gets the thing he saw recommended on instagram the other day.

48. who loses stuff?

losing stuff? excuse you, this crew’s game is FINDING (bunch of hufflepuff wannabes). the only exception is gansey pulling a velma with his glasses.

49. who is the driver/ who is the passenger?

they rotate on the road trip because like,,, u gotta. but i think gansey likes driving the most, and henry likes it the least. when they’re in college and blue comes to visit, she does all the driving in her ecopig. henry always calls shottie no blitz because the passenger seat comes with all the best jobs: music duty, navigation, hand-holding, feeding french fries to ur s.o. in the driver seat, etc. if blue’s not driving, she actually likes the backseat best most of the time bc she can fully stretch out across it lmao.

50. who is the hopeless romantic?

ALL of these fools. have you HEARD their narration?!

[flockofdoves]

wait ok maybe a bad time to start this at 1:30am (<- started this post last night lmao) but i’ve been thinking so much (for a long time but this week i think maybe prompted by jonny saying stuff in the s5 q&a part 3 about fanon character designs getting more homogenous as the fandom gets bigger its really been on my mind again) about my thoughts on the magnus archives character design stuff

(this turned into such a fucking long post my god sorry lol. just writing this for my own purposes really but i feel ridiculous i spent like a good portion of the past day writing this out dkjfhgfd)

like i already said on that other post character design stuff is full of so much under the surface both really silly and almost nonsensical (like ‘oh this character just feels like they have a lot of triangles incorporated into their design’ or the slightly more connected to reality arbitrary ideas people have about what type of character might wear glasses) and stuff thats incredibly loaded and very much connected to real life systems of oppression. so its like. idk. i like drawing people and fashion and harmonizing shapes and the idea of coming up with people who dont exist through abstracted drawings that somehow click and that can feel cohesive even with different angles/expressions/poses/etc is really fun to me conceptually but Character Design(tm) as a thing even outside of established tropes and schools of it that really lean into elements that can uphold gross shit as shorthand just inevitably theres so much to consider in the implications of making a person (visually) and ascribing traits to them (or i guess in this case largely the opposite)

so thats not something id call fun its just important and inevitably a big factor if i’m going to put any of this to words and can only hope i do so non-clumsily when i wanna talk about this on the whole just bc i find the process of how fanon designs get homogenized interesting (and the purpose of it understandable and maybe a bit inevitable in certain contexts) but also regardless of any actual potential problematic implications in any of that just bc i like the creative process of coming up with character designs i like trying to see when it comes to practicing that through applying it to characters in non-visual media i care about how i can break my guides for what they could look like down to their bare essentials between canon description, things i vibe with personally, etc so that if i have all that written down for myself it can be a good starting place for just experimenting with designs (i dont have any desire to settle on any one design for these characters but its just good general practice for this stuff) and maybe pushing a bit against some things that seem to be generally defaulted to mix things up or w/e. so yeah i’ve just wanted to write all this out for myself for a while, so after that long fucking intro fdkgh here goes!

jon!!!

ok so canonically hes born about 1987 and is like roughly 28-31 throughout the series but looks older to the point where he straight up lies and says hes a decade older at one point, he has graying hair, has been described as looking like he hasnt slept in weeks

(this bullet point contains spoilers up to early s4) depending on what part of canon youre describing him in he canonically has scars from worms probably all over his body (post ep 39), a burn scar on his hand (probably right and probably roughly shaped like a handprint) (post ep 89), actually i’m checking on the wiki now and it specifically says melanie stabbed him in the shoulder? but rereading the transcript and another couple parts that i thought potentially could mention it i dont believe it ever actually specifies (maybe the person who wrote that is conflating how both melanie and daisy’s first injuries from the slaughter are on their shoulders? so even if not canon good guess i guess that his scar from thats on his shoulder) (post ep 125) plus also probably on his throat from daisy (post ep 91), somewhere from michael stabbing him (post ep 47), and who knows maybe even something from mike crew (probably not it was just the height part of things not a lightning strike but i saw fanart of him getting a lichtenberg figure scar once from that which was interesting) (post ep 91)

has been described as ‘scrawny’ and ‘little’ which may just be more of a insult but because of that i support manlet jon lol. also because of that tend to think of him as skinny and not very muscular but i’m def not opposed to him being fat i think its really fun when i do see interpretations of him as such esp in juxtaposition with martin its nice having stuff sometimes where its two fat characters in a relationship. but if i’m leaning on every little word to narrow down character design i’d say hes most likely thin and probably short too.

getting into stuff with no real canon basis, i am a fan of him having long hair like a lot of fanon has him with. its a very tangential justification because i know its more the specific events surrounding this this was describing but when he was described as a “grubby jesus” that helped lol

but! my jon hair opinion that seems to differ from fanon is that i think maybe itd make sense with him being described as looking older and stuff to give him a bit of a receding hairline

not sure about glasses either way i think it just comes down to the specific design whether it looks good or not. there is something conceptually funny to me about giving an avatar of the eye glasses and debating whether that “makes sense” or not lol. one time i saw someones design where he stopped needing to wear glasses later on and i thought that was kinda fun

i don’t really care for like. idk. glowing green eyed jon or multiple eyes or w/e. like i get it. idk probably somethings happening when hes doing like the ceaseless watcher thing or like that one scene where he forced a statement out of that person who described him as “all eyes” like the phrase but maybe not just that as a phrase. so that plus the cover art of the show being green and making people probably theme stuff on that color i guess i cant blame people for doing that but idk just like. it feels kinda just Blah and not that novel to see a lot of the time and a bit too tropey or w/e for my personal taste unless people mix it up a bit. so i tend to prefer him just looking like some guy even later on usually. also with just like brown eyes or w/e

okay so this next part is for both jon and martin because i cant fit this into either of their sections because i feel like i cant adequately talk about this without doing it in juxtaposition to one another

this post summarizes basically anything i’m reiterating here far better but basically by nature of this being a podcast written by a white person for whom most of the first characters voiced (who included most of the most frequently appearing characters outside of those described by others because they were reoccurring avatars or w/e long before voice appearances) were from a small pool of people at a majority white company and their family members, even if that wasnt “intentional” of course that pattern happens so much and more productions should be conscious of that from the get go and reach outside their immediate circles to cast more actors of color from the start of their productions if they have the resources to properly compensate them. so basically from there theres no real totally satisfying solution for portraying “aracial” characters acted and written by white people’s race, because the situation just isn’t ideal in the first place

so like, with that in mind, i know its a bit of a mixed bag with jon in fanon being pretty consistently either ambiguously a person of color or specifically south asian, because i know people of color who were excited from fanon going in for him to be a person of color only to realize hes written and voiced by a white guy and has no canon race (which might just somewhat default to him being written as white since theres no active thought to how him being a person of color, let alone any specific race or ethnicity, might affect anything), but then on the other hand, characters with no race given being defaulted to being portrayed as white is absolutely another common issue in fandoms of things like books and podcasts. so personally because of that i would feel weird portraying him as white in my own designs in contrast with how consistently hes depicted as a person of color, but i would be interested in potentially depicting him as other races beyond the default fanon of him being south asian too (although theres def stuff to consider there that doesnt prevent any interpretation but just is there regardless like his dynamic with daisy in like s4)

and then this post expresses things better than i could ever rehash, but because of the stuff outlined in there in my own attempts at character designs i try to avoid making martin white because of the juxtaposition between that and making jon a person of color in their dynamic. not as pertinent and not something i’ve taken in from any fan of color saying it so i’m definitely not dictating this just talking out my thought process, but by extension of this i’ve also tried to consider how colorism in juxtaposition between them might make it sit better to have martin have darker skin than jon. this does get a bit weird though when balancing how martin has a couple really goofy lines implying ignorance about police abusing their power (i guess charitable interpretations could be that hes plenty aware but nonetheless vocalizing shock in the moment of it actually happening in front of him), so even if as one of the few characters i’ve posted designs of before i drew him as black, when i remembered those lines i guess its just an issue of an “aracial” character being defaulted to being written as if hes white, so even if he certainly could still be black (or any race besides white who might not have the luxury of ignorance about police brutality) it just makes clear that by him being written the way he was nothings ideal because theres not necessarily much depth that can be taken from canon to make certain depictions of him as satisfying or well fleshed out as they could be. oh also so inconsequential to the rest of this and i dont care about this at all beyond just latching onto any scrap to base things off of but the fact that martin maybe knows at least some polish i feel like thats not a language most people just know from school (esp as someone who didnt go to college) or w/e so maybe his mom is polish so probably hes part white at least to wildly extrapolate from there? idrc tho its just one more thing to note on the subject depictions of jon and martins races

martin!

canonically the same age as jon (so approximately born 1987 and roughly 28-31 throughout the series)

theres at least like 4 things in canon that can be used to say hes canonically fat, and some of those lines also more just generally describe him as “big” or w/e so while i dont care about sticking to this as much its easy to argue hes tall too (esp that one point where he says a worm “jumped literally 6 feet through the air at my face” which i guess could be approximate or the worm like. arcing lol and also iirc jonny says he doesnt remember writing that line but regardless its another thing to latch onto to narrow down design stuff)

melanie!

canonically has a scar on her shoulder (as of late 2016), probably on her leg too (if not by early 2017 then by early 2018/ep 125), and is described as skinny

(spoilers for late s4) (also eye trauma mention) post ep 155 she’s blind but trying to research what exactly she might look like like would the results of the damage she does with the awl after going to the hospital would her eyes need to be eviscerated vs enucleated? idk. thinking about lydia saying in a s3 extra in retrospect talking about this where shes like ‘it wouldn’t work like that with [an awl]!’ bc . lol yeah idk. or like would she have scarring on her eyelids or anything, would she have glass eyes, would she feel a need to wear sunglasses to protect her eyes or as a visual cue that shes blind (bc idt shed be the type to just wear it to hide her eyes) or not, etc. i’m not sure! one thing i do know for sure though thats a pet peeve in art is that people make her cane have a red stripe on it when it the UK especially a red striped white cane is for deafblind people, so her cane is most likely just plain white (also theres different styles of white canes but from researching i think shed probably make use of a long cane imo)

my biggest non-canon appearance thought about her is just. melanie king butch 💗

i do think its fun when characters get drawn with unnaturally colored dyed hair for no real reason and do think people should have fun with that more but simultaneously the contrarian in me gets annoyed with how common blue grown out roots straight hair bob melanie is. like the fun of the novelty of being ‘fuck it dying this characters hair’ gets sucked out of it from it being so consistent in fanon. also while she def could be a long haired butch or w/e regardless i just wish fanon of her was way more masc for my own self indulgent reasons

basira

i think the only canonical appearance description is the implication that shes not thin by jared when describing her, melanie, and martin, distinguishing melanie as “the skinny one”

hussain specifically as a surname spelled that way while i’m def no expert, from people i know personally and looking online too seems to be most common specifically with pakistani, indian, and bangladeshi muslims so it makes the most sense to have her be depicted as south asian. considering her VA, her being part black could make sense too but also i feel like its kinda a Thing in a lot of media where they’ll barely have black characters but when they do they’ll make them cops so like idk that’d def require more thought to it.

definitely not on authority on this of course this is just me talking through my own thoughts but i feel like maybe the common fanon of her being a hijabi feels a bit just like . theres not much thought behind it for a lot of people doing it? like it feels like ‘she has a muslim name’ -> ‘she’s muslim’ -> ‘she wears a hijab’ and not much else. like theres just like a whole lot that would need to be unpacked with any main character being religious in this series and actually specifically iirc theres a part in season 5 or something where her and jon reflect on the implications of all this on human religion? and both seem a bit agnostic in their approach. and of course theres people who wear hijabs who arent particularly religious (just like obviously vice versa) but for adults in places that arent majority muslim i feel like a main motivator for that would be connection with ones wider community? but basically all of the main characters in this story like necessarily with the themes and how all this was able to happen to them they feel pretty atomized from any real community (she specifically is paralleled with martin in how she latches onto daisy) none of this is at all to say she couldn’t be practicing islam and/or a hijabi but just that if thats how people want to depict her i think it deserves more thought than just drawing her as such (like for one example of how people have done cool things with making characters muslim i appreciate this artists comics about muslim jon (1, 2, 3)) but yeah! idk just something i’ve been thinking about but very much is not something i can act like an authority on of course. because being a hijabi is something stigmatized i do nonetheless feel slightly weird if i were to go against that fanon but idk

part of me is like ‘we dont need more butch cops’ but then the other part of me just defaults to wanting to make every woman gnc lol. for w/e reason i tend to picture her dressing pretty practically in like khaki cargo pants and hiking boots and flannels and such

daisy

canonically theres here starburst shaped scar on the back of her shoulder

(spoilers for mid s4) i dont care to find it now but i feel like once she was described as scrawny or skinny or whatever (not sure how much focusing on muscle vs thinness if so) but if so that was after she came out of the coffin so i dont think that really implies she always looked like that and i think maybe even by contrast could be implying she was muscular before

def think it makes sense to make her white. generally i do see her similar to fanon depictions of her although i do kinda wish in juxtaposition people would make more women look butch besides her. i think when i first pictured her before seeing fanart or anything it was pretty similar in build and hair color and demeanor such as most of fanon but i pictured her with like . you know like the tight bun women in the military wear lol. so its more ambiguous if her flavor of powertripping “tough” white woman is gay or not. but idrc regardless i dont plan on making much art of her

tim

uhhh i think the only canonical description of him beyond his worm scars (post ep 39) is that basira called him hot in comparison to jon and martin lol

ever since i started listening i keep defaulting to picturing him vaguely like tim from marble hornets lol. so like idk i think its fun when he has defined eyebrows and sideburns and stuff. but not even that i’m really Set on i think theres a lot of fun potential designs for him

sasha

canonically has long hair, is tall, and has glasses

(spoilers for either end of s1 or end of s2 depending on if you’ve figured out something. if you know you know lol) like obviously theres weird stuff in juxtaposition if you make not!sasha a different race than her. i think probably regardless theyre the same race considering melanie didnt note that when describing what sasha looked like. idrc about figuring out what not!sasha looks like ig if i ever make art of her i’ll just figure it out

i think this was the first art i ever saw of her like right around the week or so i started listening to the show that was posted and a mutual reblogged it so i think from basically the start thats how i pictured her essentially. but the main parts of ‘long dark hair, glasses’ i internalized from that are so close to just canon so maybe not saying much

georgie

uhhhh i dont think theres any canon description of her? and i dont have very many opinions on what she does look like honestly except that i think she looks very bisexual lol. i like the idea of her presenting pretty gnc but still maybe having some fun with feminine aesthetics too, but honestly making her present totally masc is really cool too

oh also wrt body type stuff. part of me is a bit tired of how sometimes it feels like fat characters only get to be in romantic relationships if its with skinny characters and rarely are there character designs of two fat people together and melanie is canonically skinny (which doesnt really matter i Could ignore it but i like latching onto descriptions just to narrow things down) and jons maybe implied to be which makes jon/martin like that too. but on the other hand idec i care more about just having fat wlw characters so if melanie in all i project on her cant be that then georgie will be

oliver!

only canonical description of him i believe is “tall, black and careworn, deep lines of worry etched into an otherwise handsome face”

uhh beyond that idk.. not really set on this at all but i feel like maybe he dresses like. business goth lol. like idk. well put together casual clothes like nice quality short sleeve button ups and chinos or nice cuffed jeans but maybe darker colors and a bit of a vaguely edgy but not tacky flair (like fucking idk. raven pattern button up or something lol)

i saw some art of him once where he had long locs and also just idk he was like doing that ominous floaty thing which included his hair and that had a nice rhythm in the art together with the black tendrils in the background so i could appreciate him having long locs/braids/twists or something. but def not set on that and ofc theres like a lot of years to depict him between he could have various hair styles

this is hard to really judge but ive seen posts where people are like ‘haha i draw oliver just like i drew kravitz in the adventure zone’ which is like vaguely annoying to me idk lol. but of course i cant Really know if thats what people are doing from depiction alone bc theres no set appearance for kravitz himself but sometimes i get the Vibes thats whats someones doing and its just like. whatever idk. branch out and design another character!!

there are literally soooooo many more characters i really thought i could make a short-ish thing for each character beyond a few necessary addendums but god even on inconsequential shit this post is already SO fucking long lol so i’m giving up for now i’ve done most of the main people plus my favorite side character so its fine i can get back to this later if i really want to