#this is why I hate the ‘too much sex onscreen’ arguments. sex does not have to justify itself existing in art because art is made by humans

[wickershells]

One of the attitudes that frustrates me most about the mainstream response to art these days is the general insistence that it must impart some grand moral lesson or enlighten you to something you did not already know. Art can and very often does exist merely as a reflection or portrayal or expression of something otherwise unseen. You write a poem about grief not to illustrate how to cope with it but to write about grief. To embody the disembodied and make it solid, tangible, palpable

[sugawarassoulmate]

loving the way you wanna talk

kita's gone too far this time—calling you after hours and invading the comfort of your home. even when the two of you fuck it’s never at the other’s house. often making do with an empty classroom, a bathroom at some shady bar, or going at it in the backseat of a car. but you’re much too annoyed to jump his bones at the moment. all you wanted to do was watch your stupid movie.

“what're ya watchin'?” he asks, you could hear the smirk on his stupid face.

“you don't care,” you bite back.

“humor me.”

pairing: enemies to lovers!kita x reader

words: 2k

cw: fem!reader, (hate) phone sex, mutual masturbation, insults, name-calling, kita calls reader a bitch, idiots in lust, horror movies, minors dni

disclaimer: on this blog, we discuss and explore toxic relationships/situations/just because i write about these themes does not mean i condone/support these types of relationships nor do i do them in my own personal life.

these are fictional characters in fictional scenarios and nobody should be taking real-life advice or mirror the actions of the characters in these stories!

“Why did you call me, Shin? I’m trying to watch a movie,” you could spend hours bickering with Kita, in fact, you already did that today—the two of you going back and forth about you apparently not inflating the volleyballs enough for practice. 

He says it needs to follow “regulation standards” and that practicing with a deflated ball is harder. You told him not to explain your job to him but he talks with that annoying calm voice of his that pisses you off.

���Did ya actually take time to make sure they were properly inflated?” the soft, dulcet tones of his voice hit your ears like nails on a chalkboard. You thought about chucking one of them at his head to see if they were inflated enough but that would only land you in hot water with the coach.

As much as it pained you to drop the argument despite knowing you were in the right, you brushed Kita off for rest of the day. Some might call that character development.

But he’s gone too far this time—calling you after hours and invading the comfort of your home. Even when the two of you fuck it’s never at the other’s house. Often making do with an empty classroom, a bathroom at some shady bar, or going at it in the backseat of a car. But you’re much too annoyed to jump Kita’s bones at the moment. All you wanted to do was watch your stupid movie.

“What're ya watchin'?” he asks, you could hear the smirk on his stupid face.

“You don't care,” you bite back.

“Humor me.”

It would be so easy to hang up on him right now, but a part of you enjoys the back and forth. So you take the time to explain to him the dumb plot of the 80s horror movie you threw on. A bunch of campers making bad decisions and getting picked off one by one while a mysterious killer is on the loose. “And now I’m missing totally realistic sex scene between the bimbo cheerleader and the jock,” you mused, cringing at the pseudo-pornographic moans coming from the big-breasted blonde onscreen.

“Ew, I don’t sound like that, right?” 

Kita chuckles on the other line. “No, yer much more annoyin’. Right when yer about to cum, yer voice gets all shrill.” He must be able to tell that you’re grimacing right now with the smug tone in his words. “Why do you think I’m always coverin’ yer mouth?” 

He’s full of shit and both of you know it. Kita only shoves his fingers in your mouth when it’s a risky situation—like last week when he made you cum twice on a bench in the locker room while some of his teammates were still on the court. “Yer always so noisy,” he said as you sucked on his fingers.

But this is the same man who wants to hear you beg every time he’s inside you. Who won’t let you cum until you ask for it so sweetly and lives for your cries as you cream around his cock. “Describe what’s happenin’,” he says without asking.

“You must be really bored,” you groan, but do what he says. It’s your typical, cringeworthy sex scene with two characters that have zero chemistry. Dumb Bimbo Girl and Stupid Jock get drunk and stumble away from the other characters, totally ignoring the killer on the loose to get busy in the back of a van. “Never got why people always have sex in horror movies, is the dick ever really worth it?”

You don’t get an answer from Kita, not even a smartass remark. Without a response, you continue, describing to him the scene where the killer obviously comes out of nowhere to slash the two horny teens. You offer your own commentary and complain about how obvious the jumpscares are and the clearly low budget of the film. 

But after a few more minutes, you realized that Kita hasn’t said anything in a while and now you’re annoyed. “Did you hang up, Shin? I’m talking to you.” He coughs on the other side as if he’s been caught off guard or something. “You’re the one that called and you’re gonna disappear on me? Rude as fuck if you ask me—”

“Yer so fuckin’ annoyin’. Hate ya so fuckin’ much,” He breathes, voice in your ear. You recognize that tone and it makes you squeeze your thighs together. There’s no way…he would never.

“Shin…why did you call me?” you ask timidly, a manner of speaking you never use with him.

Kita makes a disgruntled noise. “Every fuckin’ day ya piss me off with gratin’ voice of yers and the one time I wanna hear it, yer askin’ me these dumb questions.” He’s growling at you with pent-up anger like he’s been holding it in the entire time. “I was eggin’ ya on earlier today and ya stopped arguin’ with me.”

“You’re angry that I didn’t argue with you today? And you called me just to jerk off, you’re literally disgusting.”

He curses under his breath and you don’t miss the stray “bitch” that comes out of his mouth. “Ya haven’t hung up yet. Bet ya like knowin’ ya got me so worked up.” You really wish he wasn’t right. You can try to suppress the tingle between your legs but it’s there and your fingers are twitching to touch yourself after realizing what he’s doing.

“I could tell everyone on the team what a fucking pervert their captain was. You’ve been doing it the whole time we’ve been on the phone, haven't you?”

“Go ahead and tell them, but I wouldn’t be sittin’ on my fuckin’ high horse if I were ya,” Kita snaps. “Think I can’t hear the lil shake in yer voice? Might as well touch yerself, ain’t no shame in admittin’ yer wrong.”

You’d honestly rather die. Sure, there were days after a heated argument with Kita that had you you coming home and shoving your hand immediately went past your shorts from all the pent up energy. Or the times when you’d fuck yourself dumb on a dildo wishing that it was Kita rearranging your guts instead. But he’d never have to know anything of that. Kita’s ears didn’t have to hear what you sounded like when you made yourself cum. It’s bad enough that he knows how easily he can do it on his own.

Your silence must bother him as Kita speaks up again. “Do I need to spell it out fer ya? Or do ya need some incentive?” His voice gets closer—it’s like he’s in your ear, a shiver running down your spine that rattles your whole body. 

“Ya had me so worked up today, was kinda hopin’ ya’d stay back after practice but ya left so fuckin’ early,” he groans, and now you can very clearly hear the sounds of him stroking his cock. It’s disgusting how easily you could picture it—his shirt off and pants tugged down just enough to free his length. He’s probably on his bed right now, head thrown back at the thought of you.

And here you are, laying in bed with your legs already spread somehow. “Yer so quiet, are ya thinkin’ about how I’m strokin’ my fat cock right now? Could’ve been all yers if ya weren’t such a bitch today,” Kita breathes.

“Bet if ya touched yourself right now it’d be all wet, right? Why do ya just try it? They’re not my fingers, but I’m sure ya can get yerself off.”

It’s nearly instant how your hand ends up slipping past your panties and of course, you’re soaking. God, you hate him so much. You’ve never hated anyone more in your life and yet it doesn’t stop you from plunging two fingers inside you.

Kita hears the small whine leave your lips and wastes no time jumping on it. “That’s my girl, it’s so wet, isn’t it? Bet it’s drippin’ down yer hand. Wish I was there to lick it all up, hm? Ya know I would have ya beggin’ fer my cock.”

“You sound really smug for someone who had to rub one out because I wouldn’t keep fighting with them,” you gasp, curling your fingers just enough to get your thighs to twitch. “Do you do this every night, Shin? Touch yourself when I can’t do it for you?”

Both of you take a moment to curse, the pleasure building with each insult thrown at the other. At least you two are absolutely pathetic when it comes to the other. There’s no winner here—just two incredibly horny losers that want to fuck other so badly it makes them stupid.

Maybe you should bring Kita over here once in a while, the thought of his strong arms pinning you to the soft sheets of your bed sounds a bit pleasant to you. Even if he would totally make snide comments about the posters adorning your walls. You could just hear him say, “Really, you sleep with stuffed animals?” But those comments would die the second your mouth was on him.

Your thoughts and the sounds of Kita’s grunts on the other line have you sighing in pleasure. The movie still playing on your TV completely forgotten about. “Are ya close? Makin’ that dumb face ya make when yer about to cum?” Kita’s thrust get sloppy and you’re sure he’s just as much of a mess as you are.

Is he craving your touch as much as you’re craving his? Does he have thoughts of taking you in his bed? Limbs tangled together on his sheets as your bodies rock against one another. “Let me hear it, wanna hear ya cum. It’s not gonna be as good as when I do it but I just need to hear it—fuck.”

Kita’s rambling and tripping over his words. You’re sure he’s going to cum too, you’d like to hold off on your orgasm just so he’s the first one to go over the edge—you’re so petty—but you can’t do it. Kita’s endurance has always been impressive whether he’s on the court or locked in a supply closet with his lips attached to yours. You can’t say the same, especially when you’re taking the reigns of your own gratification. 

“Shin!” you cried, using your palm to add pressure on your clit. “Wish you were here, want you to make me cum, ah! It’s not the same…” It’s true and you hate saying it, but your small stubby fingers don’t compare to Kita’s longer ones. The ones that know just the right spots to hit and have you seeing stars. You keep going, saying things that you’ll likely regret later on but it doesn’t matter anymore. “I want you here, want your cock, Shin. Need you to fill me up—fuck!”

“I know, ya need me so bad, so fuckin’ desperate for it. Whinin’ like a bitch in heat, huh? Be good and cum fer me and I’ll take care of ya,” When Kita curses like that, you can tell he’s just as close as you are. 

It’s not the same as Kita’s fingers, but it does the job. Before you know it, your orgasm hits, coating your fingers in your juices as you sob through it. Kita grunts, “Good girl, good girl, good girl,” He doesn’t praise you often—very rarely if you’re being honest—but his words are genuine, along with sighs of your name as he cums.

“Holy shit,” he mumbles, milking himself dry. The next few moments are filled with only the sounds of both your heavy breathing—both half-naked, pathetic, and still very, very horny.

It isn’t until the loud sound of a jumpscare on TV that you snap out of the afterglow, a soft “jesus christ,” coming out as you start to clean yourself up. “Don’t tell me that movie actually scared ya. Need me to keep ya safe?”

You’re not stupid. Kita’s clearly looking for an excuse to come over, a line he’s never crossed before. But having over to warm your bed wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. “Just come over, Shin, you’re pissing me off.”

“Fine, since ya want it so bad. Keep the door unlocked,” He hangs up and for the first time in what feels like ages, you can’t hear his voice in his ears. 

You hate that you miss it.

©sugawarassoulmate 2022 all rights reserved - please do not repost/translate my work on other platforms!

[herecomesnaya]

Hey! Feel free to ignore if this isn't something you feel like answering - or is something you've answered before - but I was wondering if you have any tips on writing smut. I've never written smut before, but the fic I'm writing now features it pretty heavily and I find myself totally at a loss. As someone who writes, imo, some of the best smut out there, I would love to hear your opinion.

so! I've been thinking on this ask a lot, and I think I've finally got some advice to give. of course, note that everything is subjective and I'm not an expert, but these are the things I consider when I go about writing my own smutty stories.

the most important thing I like to consider when I'm writing smut, and the thing that tends to make or break a story for me when I'm reading it, can be summed up as, "remember that you're still writing about characters first, and sex second." so what does that mean?

there's a trend I see a lot, both in fics and in published novels, where, once the sex scene starts up, it transitions from "a story about X and Z" to "a story about two people fucking." they could be any two people with any relationship, you could swap out the names and have a perfectly viable sex scene with an entirely different couple. the action is generic, perhaps under-explained, the dialogue is scarce to nonexistent, and this is where purple prose takes hold for a lot of people.

now, there's nothing wrong with a quiet, calm, generic sex scene, where you use flowery language, and things begin and end fairly quickly. but that's not my style, and, imo, tends to work better for stories where sex isn't meant to be the focus. if you want to write smut -- here defined as "a sex-focused story where the intent is to provide an arousing piece of media for someone to consume" -- then you'll need a little more than that.

alright, so how do you do that?

this is where that little soundbite of advice from above comes into play. don't think of your story as "background for the sex, then sex, then the ending." think of it all as one flowing thing, where your characters are interacting and influencing the narrative the entire time.

take their personalities into account. are they easygoing? uptight? prone to fits of laughter? adversarial? when they're together, do they work like a well-oiled machine, playing off of each other, or do they butt heads? do they respect each other? love each other? hate each other? is this their first time doing it, their sixth, their hundredth? how do they feel about sex outside of the bedroom? when’s the last time they masturbated, if they do that at all? do they watch porn? if so, what kind?

these are all the kinds of questions I like to ask myself when I'm thinking of writing a pornographic story. I'm not saying you have to know their whole backstory, sexual history, and kink roster, but it helps to keep those things in mind, the same way it helps to keep a character's past traumas in mind when writing new ones.

here's the tea: everyone has sex differently. there's no "normal" way to have sex. there's no standard for it (no matter how much the media would like you to believe that heterosexual sex in the missionary position while wordlessly staring into each other's eyes is the "default"). when you write smut, you shouldn't have to stick to the "standard" way that it's supposed to go.

you know the one: kissing, oral, one finger, two fingers, three fingers, penetration, orgasm. at worst, it's like reading an IKEA catalog. again, there's nothing inherently wrong with this order of events -- I've used it plenty of times myself! -- but it's not some formula that you have to use in order for your sex scene to be "correct."

during every step of the way, try to think about who you're writing about, and how they interact. imagine their banter, if they're the type. or maybe one of them shuts down during sex, goes into a wordless state of arousal, clams up and doesn't speak as much as they usually would, etc. maybe their partner notices and works harder to please them, or pauses to make sure they're alright, or they're so caught up in the moment that they don't even realize what's going on around them.

there are so many ways people can react during sex. and, it's important to note, someone's personality outside of the bedroom doesn't always necessarily translate to what they're like inside. the "geek in the streets, freak in the sheets" trope exists for a reason! sex is something that brings out a lot of emotions, floods your brain and your body with chemicals, makes you vulnerable in a way that you usually aren't. all of those things are going to have an effect on someone.

so, think about your characters: does that buff warrior-type stay dominant and aggressive in bed, taking charge, bossing their partner around, being physically domineering? or do they soften up for someone they like? maybe they put on an aggressive front, but when they're in the privacy of someone's bed, or when they're exposed and getting touched intimately by someone, they let the other person take control. likewise, is that shy, stuttering character going to go beet red at the sight of a pair of underwear, or do they come out of their shell when they're comfortable with someone, and show a side of themselves that would surprise the people who know them?

now, don't take all this to mean that you have to stick to a certain set of sexual preferences that "makes sense" for the character. I'm of the opinion that you can make almost anything make sense, particularly if the character in question isn't shown having sex in canon. real people are so varied in their sexualities, and their kinks, and their fetishes, and it's much more complex than just "big, strong man likes to top," or "girl who likes anime also watches tentacle hentai." we really don’t know what causes fetishes or kinks, so there’s no justification you have to put forth for why someone likes something. they could just like it.

take, for example, the debate a while back about whether Jason Todd tops or bottoms. I put forth an “argument” (I use that word loosely) that he's one of those people who plays up his aggression, but is actually a softie when it comes down to it. people on the other side say that he's a control freak who likes to stay that way in the bedroom, or that his aggressive vigilante personality would translate to his sexual encounters.

both of these interpretations are completely valid! the people who say he likes vanilla sex and maybe a little bondage are valid. the ones who (like me) write about him being a masochist getting whipped and pissed on are valid. the ones who say he's asexual are valid. everyone has their own view on what he'd be like sexually, and that's absolutely fine!

whatever your point of view may be, just try to keep it in mind when you write. get in that character's head. let them speak and move and stop and start and change up the script. let them get into an argument mid-fuck and stop to finish yelling, or go faster and rougher while they're banging. let one person say something that the other one takes the wrong way. let them have sex without enough lube, or with too much that grosses one partner out to the point where they can't stop thinking about the mess on the sheets. let them start off strong, then zone out, enter subspace or even domspace (which, while more rarely talked about, is still a thing).

and when in doubt, read! read fics you like. examine their structure, their length, the way they describe body parts and the way they move together. note which sentences made you the most excited, and try to figure out why. was it the vulgarity? the release of something the narrative had been building up to? did the author paint a vivid picture in your head, and what words did they use to do it?

another helpful idea: watch some porn (homemade porn is especially good for getting a more realistic idea of how people have sex). think about how you'd describe the people onscreen if you were writing about their encounter. do his nails dig into her skin, making soft indents in her thick hips? does he have to work his cock in slowly, and when he does, does his partner's breath stutter, does his voice get higher? when someone's licking their partner's pussy, do they focus on the clit, or lap at the labia, or tongue-fuck them? do they need to be told to do something differently, or does the couple already know their partner's body well enough to get them off with little communication?

the long and short of it: nobody has sex in a vacuum. porn doesn't need to follow a formula. everyone's going to have sex differently, be it from person to person or even from encounter to encounter. keep in mind who they are, where they are, what they were doing to get to this point, what they're thinking and feeling besides just the physical. when you inject that personality into your smut, it gives it a liveliness that makes it stand out amidst a sea of "fingers in hole, penis in hole, moaning, orgasm, end."

I hope this helped someone! and if anyone would like more info on anything, please do let me know. I may make a part 2 of this if there's enough interest/if I think of something else! :) thanks for reading!

[mittensmorgul]

I'm still having a hard time understanding your definition of "canon relationship". Endgame material? Essentially happy? Featured in many episodes? I think most people simply consider "canon" = "it happened in the show/book/film". And Sam and Eileen have canonically had feeling for each other, on screen. What those feelings were and how much they may have been manipulated by Chuck, neither seems sure, but it doesn't make them any less of a thing that noticeably happened. Therefore canon.

When you need a semantic debate to somehow validate your favored ship, and you feel the need to debate semantics with a stranger on the internet in order to “win” and be proven “correct” in some way, we’ve all lost, friendo.

You’re absolutely right, with your definition of “canon.” It’s what has actually happened, in the case of Supernatural, on screen in the show itself. That’s not up for debate. You’re trying to introduce a strawman into this conversation.

I’m attempting to define, from a watsonian perspective, which means from WITHIN THE NARRATIVE, how the CHARACTERS THEMSELVES would describe their relationship. You’re giving me the doylist perspective, from outside the narrative, the fact that Sam and Eileen have a relationship of any kind-- romantic or otherwise-- in canon.

You’re attempting to conflate the two things, for the sake of winning an argument on the internet.

By your definition, Dean and Cas are canon, too. Which, I mean... they are, but that’s not the debate here, and it adds nothing to the fact that Eileen herself, in canon, has stated that she doesn’t feel her relationship with Sam is even real.

Yes, it happened in canon, but that’s not the whole story, either.

I mean, let’s use a completely non-shippy example here, to hopefully illustrate why “but they’re canon! it happened in canon!” is... an entirely irrelevant point in context. Let’s look at a canonical friendship to illustrate the point.

Canonically, Garth has tried to kill Sam. That happened, in canon. Garth wolfed out and attacked Sam. Sounds awful, right? Should we lose all sympathy for Garth? Should we believe that he did that of his own free will, and is an “evil” character now, because that very much did happen in canon? Or are we supposed to use our brains and understand that Garth literally did not have a choice, because he was acting under a form of mind control, being puppeted by Michael into attacking Sam? Are we supposed to have a better understanding of what actually happened in context, and correctly see this as “Michael tried to use a trusted character to harm Sam, playing on their preexisting friendship/relationship in order to lure Sam in to his trap, and using Sam’s trust and friendship with that character to harm him?”

Mary has canonically tried to kill Sam and Dean (in 12.03). Are we to assume that she obviously hates them and wanted them dead? Because canonically her actions would say we should! She tried to hurt them! Oh, but... she was possessed by a ghost, and wasn’t in control of her own actions... maybe we actually need to think about what that means... maybe Mary herself doesn’t actually want to kill her own sons...

Or if you’re a Mary hater and are willing to think the worst of her, how about the canonical fact that Dean has tried to kill Sam. That Dean has canonically told Sam that he wished he were dead? There you have it, Dean canonically has said “your life sucked the life out of my life” to him. Dean canonically rejected any sort of care for Sam. Are we supposed to take that at face value, just because it happened in canon? Or are we supposed to understand that Dean was a demon, and Honestly. >.>

Cas canonically kissed Meg that one time. Obviously they’re canon, right? What, they’re not? Oh, right, Dean even lampshaded the fact with the “give you an hour with Meg first” comment, to which Cas replied “Why would I want that?” Does a kiss make a couple “canon?” What does that even mean? “going canon” is a practically useless term in cases like that. The goalposts for what any one person would consider qualifies a romantic couple as “canon” are eternally shifting all over the field.

Let’s be better than that, and instead understand that we’re all talking about our individual interpretations of the same canon. We’re just seeing different things, because we are different people with different experiences and understandings of the characters and the overarching narrative.

I have repeatedly explained my understanding of Sam and Eileen’s relationship as canon itself has defined it. I have explained that my understanding of the relationship they had, offscreen and undefined by canon, between 11.11 and 12.17 has shifted dramatically since Eileen’s return in 15.06. I had, before this season, been willing to HEADCANON that Sam and Eileen could’ve had an established offscreen relationship based on the nature of their relationship we saw onscreen in 12.17. It was cute! It was exciting thinking that Sam had grown so close to someone!

It was... proven in s15 that the offscreen relationship we’d all headcanoned in s12 was... nothing more than a happy headcanon, and had not actually happened! THAT is what I mean when I have talked about what is ~not~ canon about their relationship. Let’s be very clear about that, because 

(gif source)

So, the debate over what is canon or what is not canon, to me personally, is an entirely useless conversation. Dean canonically hates chick flick movies. Also, he canonically loves chick flick movies. Sam canonically does not like bacon (15.06), and yet he canonically made a huge pile of bacon with Eileen in 15.07, but then was back to eating salad by the next episode. You can point at a lot of things that are “canon” to try and prove your point. To whatever end, or for whatever motive you may have in attempting to do so. That’s called “cherry picking.” (pay special attention to the section on Confirmation Bias) You have to be aware of what exactly canon is showing us as a whole, though, for it to have any actual meaning. 

At this point, after 15.09, Eileen has canonically chosen not to pursue a relationship with Sam, after she was canonically manipulated by an outside force into attempting to pursue a relationship with Sam.

She could, in canon, return to pursue a relationship with Sam! I am not here to speculate on that! It could happen! But it would be based in their canonical history, that is almost entirely muddied by Chuck’s interference in their relationship to this point. That is literal, actual canon!

But they had a cute relationship in 12.17! Chuck didn’t make them do that!

I have not denied that! That is obvious! But I’m not going to ignore everything that happened in s15 that has been (in canon! again!) defined as “not real.” As “not their own choice.” And I’m not going to suggest we just handwave the canonical fact that Eileen feels used, feels violated, by how Chuck attempted to manipulate her into seducing Sam, despite their canonical past interactions.

I mean, Sam carried out a two season canonical romance arc with Ruby. Their relationship is canon. He canonically had feelings for her, trusted her, fully engaged in the relationship with her. That’s not up for debate, but the in-canon CONTEXT of their relationship was a lie, you know? She lied to him for two years, with a specific goal in doing so. She manipulated him into all of that to free Lucifer from the cage. The fact that their relationship is canon is entirely irrelevant to any ANALYSIS of said relationship, and understanding it in context, and what it means for the characters.

So when you apply the context to Sam and Eileen’s relationship as it stands in s15, the fact it ~exists~ isn’t up for debate. The fact that they canonically interacted in a flirtatious fashion on screen, the fact they did anything together on screen isn’t up for debate. The reason WHY Eileen engaged in any of this, though, is also not up for debate. Chuck made it all happen, from the moment her ghost appeared in the bunker to the moment she told Sam she needed to leave, all of that is under a pall of Chuck’s influence. That... is also canon.

So anon, what do YOU mean when you say “they’re canon.” Do you mean they have established a mutually consensual romantic relationship? (because if so, then they are NOT canon) Do you mean “they have interacted in a way that can be interpreted as insinuating there is romantic interest between them?” Because I could give you that one. They definitely have potential in the future. Do you mean “They kissed on screen!” Because heck, what does that even mean?

Sam’s canonically kissed a lot of people! Jessica Moore! Lori Sorenson! Sarah Blake! Jo (well, he was possessed by Meg at the time, so does this one count? Their mouths touched...)! Madison the werewolf! Ruby! Amelia Richardson! Dr. Roberts! Amy Pond! Becky (though he was under a love spell for that one, so does that count? from how skeeved the entire fandom has always been by that one... even if Becky thought they had real feelings for each other “deep down,” does anyone think Sam actually consented to any of that?)! Annie Hawkins (self-reported by Sam, and we take his word for it)! That woman who propositioned his body while he’d been body swapped with Gary, so does that even count because only Sam’s body was used there? or did they even actually do anything beyond tying Sam’s body occupied by Gary to a bed and getting out the flail...)! And if we’re going meta, then Genevieve Padalecki in the French Mistake!universe! That hippie chick soulless sam had sex with when Dean was abducted by “aliens” that one time! and speaking of soulless sam, the hooker he was with in 6.03, and the apparent string of women he was with that we only learned about tangentially via 6.13!

Does that mean Sam has a canonical relationship with all of these women? YES. But... like... you can’t look at this list (which is probably not even complete) and suggest that all of these relationships are of equal canonical import, or that they are equivalent in emotional weight for Sam as a character. That’s... idiotic, frankly.

So, to me, the discussion of “what is canon” is like... irrelevant to anything I’m actually here for. The actual understanding of what the canonical relationship MEANS and how it informs character is what is actually important to me.

So please stop trying to undercut an actual discussion of canon with a semantics strawman. Thanks.

[incarnateirony]

Thoughts.

So I finally watched Good Omens. First of all I know some people were waiting for me to like, do breakdowns on the use of lore, sigils and whatnot -- I’m sure I’ll poke at it eventually, but so much of it reads of typicality, alongside strong artistic liberty, that when it comes to actual sigils there’s very few and I’ll need a good screen of them.

But that isn’t about that. This is actually about Good Omens and the audience response to queer content and queer coded content. I’m going to warn you, some of this shit is going to incense the fuck out of woke tumblr. It’s going to be a lot of hard pills to swallow, mostly in regards to parts of the LGBT community -- of which I’m a part -- moving around our own goal posts, inconsistencies in the placements of our goalposts, and the impacts of het culture. If you come into my mentions screaming away at me expect an ignore or a block.

No, this isn’t anti-Azri/Crow. It’s very pro Azri/Crow. And yes, I’m going to drag other fandoms I’m in, into it. But I’m also gonna drag general discussion into it.

First I’m going to source a link to a recent set of tweets someone made that I consider very insightful (x) and then highlight a bulk of it.

“When we call something queerbaiting, we're essentially saying: "source material X doesn't count as real or valid queer representation." Here is a thread on why we need to be cognizant about which real-life queer people & stories we're erasing when we expand our use of that term. First: actual queerbaiting, in which art-creators hint at queer representation in order to attract viewers and then insist their art was 100% hetero all along, sucks a lot. I am not advocating getting rid of the term. Nor am I saying it's not valid to feel jerked around when a show uses the promise of a specific queer relationship on their publicity circuit, and then doesn't follow through on it in the actual source. (Or follows through only to write out a character, a la #TheMagicians) However: when we narrow our definition of "real and valid queer representation" until the ONLY thing that counts as queer rep is on-screen queer *romance* or on-screen queer *sex*, we are telling a significant portion of the real-life queer community that they don't count. When we use the "queerbaiting" label to describe a millennia-long, loving asexual same-gender relationship (aka #GoodOmens) we are telling asexuals in loving life-long relationships that they don't count as queer. We are also telling sexual queers whose primary, life-organizing relationships are queerplatonic (me, this is me) that their queerness is defined only by who they fuck, not by who they choose to build a life with. I want a space where ALL kinds of queer stories get told: romances yes, but also stories of queer friendship; queer mentorship; queer animosity; queer competition and cooperation; queer found family; queer provocation and queer mistakes. None of that happens if we tell everyone whose queer content doesn't fit into the narrow box "Lead A & Lead B kiss and/or fuck onscreen" (even if A&B make a life together; even if A&B kiss & fuck other same-sex people) that their art is exploitative & doesn't count as queer rep. “ 

Why am I choosing to highlight this while implicatively mentioning my adjacent fandoms? Well, because blogs I follow that either haphazardly dismiss, say, Destiel as valid until (personally met goalpost, generally when arguing with the hetnorm or anti community wanting a kiss) are all on the Azriphale-Crowley bandwagon.

And let me say, I adore the Azriphale-Crowley bandwagon. I’m ON that bandwagon. Holy shit am I on that wagon, but we need to inspect our dialogue for people who are on one but not the other.

We can say, for example, “Well, Neil Gaiman and the actors have been supportive! So THAT’S why it’s fine!” I mean -- aren’t people always banging on about post-affirmation not being enough, or just vague support being enough, or this-or-that not being enough? Like people don’t flame Rowling over that? I mean, even if we handwave away that Neil Gaiman had literally uncontested authorship instead of 203492 hands in the author and ownership pot top-to-bottom which the average show doesn’t have -- which gives the liberty to say whatever the fuck he wants because it is wholly his product and under his contract and design -- do you notice that it’s actually a very, very small audience crowing about that? And rarely if ever the same ones that do about other pairings that could be considered similar? Like we haven’t gotten those moments from authors in other shows (Robbie Thompson “Destiel isn’t canon?” comes to mind) that we yell queerbait at then and decide isn’t enough. Because someone else moved a goalpost out.

Ah-- but they’re... confirmed asexual and agender and immortal! Okay... and... so is, for example, if we’re going to tilt this way, Castiel. And ace people can have queer relationships with bi or yes, even straight people. Mindblowing, I know, but that’s it, that’s reality.

So why on gods green earth am I seeing this disparity between blogs about the same content, banging on at different volumes of what we expect?

It’s something I’ve written about before, the loudest example being my Problem With DreamHunter post. Before any DreamHunter fans pick up the pitchforks, don’t worry. It, also, is in support of DreamHunter, but simply addresses the cultural problem in there not being a problem with DreamHunter. The blend of intersectional issue disparity between MLM and WLW, and also the simple fact that the fandom wasn’t positioned to have antis or rival ships screaming at it: het culture and shipping culture.

I’ve banged on about this before: in our race for representation, we often trample over content that’s perfectly good and valid and great in many ways, because we want to be able to win an argument against an asshole, we want to be able to bludgeon the gay so inarguably into somebody’s brain that they yield to the might of it, or at least, we imagine it reaches that point. Anti-shipping culture can be so loud that even slow burn het pairings that kiss will have antis explaining their way around it (eg, Mulder and Scully, off the top of my head). Anti queer culture will talk down men or women even making out on screen as experimentation. This cycle will continue.

So again, let me state: Good Omens is a masterpiece. I am utterly enthralled by it, but it does leave me sitting flummoxed about the uneven bars we put out there as marker posts based on trying to race to the finish of arguments.

I’m sure some hack job that doesn’t know how to rub brain cells together beyond “it’s straight” and, beneath the surface, “I don’t like it so I’m going to piss and moan about more expansive methods of thought than hard niching the complexity of human relations” is going to roll in here, thinking yelling “Jensen Ackles thinks it’s straight!” in supreme reductionism of things like authorship, be it intent OR death of the author, or whatever else is out there in this medium -- I’m sure they’ll show up, make the same repetitive ass of themselves as always, and roll on, completely missing the point that I’m not obligated to your arbitrary bullshit, and that nobody is. 

I don’t HAVE to point out every single time a dickhat on a loop yells that, that Jensen Ackles himself spoke of the intangibility of the deepness of their connection with Castiel as an angel, and that a cishet dude from texas probably doesn’t understand the finest details of LGBT identity complexity despite being an ally while fumbling over talking about the difficulty of putting a label on it. I don’t have to explain that the actor doesn’t actually get to determine that. Viewership or author, take your pick. I don’t have to explain the “it’s never happening and wasn’t intended” never came from the authors every time some bumblefuck says it -- that it came from one account with a blurb that said he doesn’t speak for that writing room whatsoever. I don’t have to review the times that Jensen Ackles has almost verbatim mirrored the Good Omens creatives about the beauty of it being you being able to make your own interpretation even if it wasn’t his, and encouraging that. I don’t fucking have to, you entitled sniveling shits.

And no, it’s by no means about, say, Dean and Cas. It’s just about the dialogues I’m tired of seeing tilt unevenly even between typically well grounded and centered people. 

So anyway Azriphale and Crowley are EternityMates and that’s the fucking tea. Call it queerplat or call it queerromantic I can see either, even if I do tilt towards the former. Destiel is queerromantic and you can fight me. Come at me. Except nobody really will over Good Omens, just Supernatural, because like magic, Good Omens isn’t geared for a fuckton of other bloated ships or antis who hate either of them by structure alone. And that, itself, is a point to be made, too.

And before some doodlefuck trolls along, no, there’s no such thing as incestromantic. Spare us the time and block me now if your knee jerk counter-troll is going to be subtextually along those lines, because I promise you’ll just get blocked when you try to roll into town with it. Since the Supernatural fandom seems to house corners of douchebags that don’t know how to control their primitive douchebag impulses and they do come into address in this post.

Moral of the story: Stop listening to homophobes, antis, or people with agendas. Listen to the content and what has actually been said. On all sides. 

If you consider, for example, 

the Ineffible Husbands canon with no admission of anything beyond friendship, with the hets loudly banging one scene over with “well the others are ace or whatever” as your reason (fair), a few lunches, basic dedication and a few well placed songs, and a few supportive notes from the general creatives,

But the Hunter Husbands not canon with talked-around love yous and need yous, intentional deletion of Castiel’s agender ace aspects, in spite of there being no evident banging or kissing in the show that hasn’t been a highlight of a problem since like season what six?; talk arounds of their meals together, infinite longer and classic romantic crafted dedication, innumerable well placed songs and yes, a few supportive notes from the creatives that are buried by yourself or others beneath intentionally obfuscated arguments and spun context,

You are, whether you want to gullet it or not, part of the moving goalpost problem. Whether it’s you running to meet a phobe or an anti, or just being coded into it by the screaming around you, there is no world in which one is representation and the other is not. It’s just fuckin’ not. 

It’s not.

I don’t care what you yell and scream because it’s popular in your circles. It’s fuckin’ not. 

It’s not.

Either both are rep or neither are rep. Personally, I adore both of them, and anyone that has a problem with that can eat me.

Good Omens is not a goddamn motherfucking breakthrough in representation. It’s the same very valid very real form of queer coding half this site screams at because someone got loud enough to scream about it early on, generally inspired by antis riding their ass, just it’s the first and second lead instead of second and third lead, and there’s no ‘rival’ in first and second leads as being intentionally dragged into vaguery. It’s. Fucking. Not. It’s literally. The same. Fucking. Level.

Now, I HAVE been banging on that it’s the level our content SHOULD be acceptable at (well, almost; frankly I’d consider Destiel better, as the show’s overall intimacy threshold is far lower while Good Omens has parallel overtness to the coupling in the actual canon, meaning Good Omens’ playing field, for fair treatment, would be indebted to matching volume -- not saying sex since ace but louder admissions and engagements that are just as clear.)

Unpopular? Good, I don’t care. I’m tired of people screaming about completely conflicting crap.

It’s where we SHOULD be taking ownership of our content. So if there’s any breakthrough, it’s the LGBT community themselves having some sort of spark of awareness that they can and should be able to own content at that volume, largely because the fandom isn’t swamped by asshats on the other side all yelling for their own crappy agendas clogging up your heads. There’s a few queerbait shouters. And you laugh them off, by and large, and accept it as canon and rep. Funny how that works without antis up your ass.

Sincerely,

A tired queer and newborn Crowley stan.

[softnorwegians]

Some asks that I’m answering all together because I don’t have much to say and didn’t necessarily want to put them all on people’s dashes:

I just rewatched Season 2 and I‘m asking myself why I liked Noora that much. Besides the whole William thing. What he did to Vilde was so gross and he did not change. And let’s be hones, what happend to Noora when she was young was what William did to Vilde. Besides that. When she just directly shows Eva the tabs on Isaks Phone and talks about him and Sara in such a judgmental and mean way. And the whole Syria Crisis thing was so awkward, she didn’t really care. She just wanted to seem better 1\

2 than Eskild. And how she kissed Yousef even though she was so sure that Sana fancied him. And why? Because Sana did not tell her William had a new girlfriend. But in season 2 Noora doesn’t tell Eva about Jonas new girlfriend for a while. She tells her right before Eva and her go to the party where Jonas and his girlfriend are too. Ugh Noora in season 1 was awesome but they completely destroyed her character.

Yeah, tbh Noora was never one of my favorites? Maybe because I try to live-and-let-live and not get too judgmental so it’s extra painful to see someone failing at that. I think Noora is realistic and sometimes relatable but it can be a little hard to watch, hahaha.

I was always okay with Noora until s4 though! I absolutely got completely sick of her during s4, ajhksjf. I don’t hold kissing Yousef against her because I like to pretend that just didn’t happen but I was exhausted by how much we were seeing and hearing about her.

I’m confused as to why people are upset about William getting mad at Noora when he thought she slept with Nikolai?? Unless I’m remembering it wrong, he asked her “did you sleep with my brother” and she responded with “I don’t know” and he stormed off. That definitely doesn’t seem like an overreaction to me, just miscommunication as to what happened and what exactly Noora didn’t know (whether she was raped or not vs. whether she had consensual with him or not)

Well, “I don’t know” is an answer that doesn’t really make sense when related to the question of having sex so I think people felt like it was little ‘eh’ to not pick up on the undercurrent of what she was saying with it. But yeah, I’m not holding his initial reaction against him. It’s when he gets the texts that I’m like “...what”.

just saw this in the tag "blackmail? lol she doesn't have to go on the date. all she had to do was say "hell no" and then tell vilde what happened. it's not that serious". why did society teach us it's desirable for a man to never stop even if you say no to him, that if he just keeps pushing you'll see the light eventually. it's also funny that france leaked a key episode again to create hype. there's no way it isn't intential. i guess at least Italy will get s3 since they're in Oslo now *sighs*

I probably should have addressed more about Noora agreeing to the date but oh well. ...I have an allergic reaction to “s3” and “remake” in the same sentence. It’s making me not want to watch any of the remakes any farther, tbh.

one thing is also that he doesn't say it in a joking way, he sounds serious and it's very bad directed if that line was supposed to be a cute way of asking for consent.

Yeah, agreed, like I don’t get that at all from the line. It’s more what I figure it has to be.

If you look past how unnecessary annoying and obsessed Julie made Vilde (to a point some people probably thought it all was Vilde and not William), she also had a pattern with Norh*lm. His friends get beat up instead of him, he acts like 180, Noora doesn't owe him. He gets mad and hurt when she tells the truth, he walks away and she lays it out again but she kisses him. She doesn't know if she was assaulted but she has to get him back when he's been hurt. What a mess but boyfriend goalz!

I’m tired.

If it's hard to see how Wilhelm pressured Noora then switch it out to be about sex or coming out of the closet and add in how everything affects Vilde with her eating disorder and fragilness with her feelings then perhaps it's clear as a day.

Sorry, I’m not quite following this one! But I feel like I would support you. 😁

I don't see why peolke think william changes in s2? He gets points from his fans that he stops sleeping with girls, is gentle and soft (Vilde said he was that and that's why she fell back to her, NHs must really dislike Vilde in the 2.8 scene), doesn't pressure her with sex after she says she wants to wait, doesn't read her messages, finishes her essay while she's sleeping after a panic attack and GOSH doesn't leave his love in that state to party hard. Then ignores/levavs her when he finds out.

I’m still with Vilde, she deserved better than William and why isn’t that true for Noora too?

I would actually say literally nothing I hate about willhelm (besides not using a condom) is stuff heard via rumors and gossip and actually just through stuff he actually does onscreen lol. Also even if He never would've actually told Vilde about what happened threatening to do so isn't any better sorry

I just really hate in general that he’s leveraging something to get to Noora. I mean, she does agree to this date (offscreen) but even then, it was a bargain and not because she actually wanted to be there. What kind of “date” is that. I just hate seeing that in any context, a woman coerced into a “romantic” situation.

“Take Vilde, she reveals he was loyal, caring and gentle when they had sex beforehand we were made to believe the opposite was true”..Um and then he slept with every girl in school. I mean sleep with whoever you want, however many people you want but being gentle and nice in sex doesn’t mean your a good person. That is the opposite of loyal.... I don’t even hate William honestly think I hate Noora more but the pro side always reaches so hard only people who reach more are the Jonas haters.

Oh, yes, I didn’t comment on that but the “loyal” definitely doesn’t apply.

I agree we should have gotten way more Vilde and Even content and way less Noora and William drama. I hated the way Vilde was portrayed(the comments she made about Sana to the Pepsi max girls and just some stuff she did/said we’re not cool and I didn’t like that it was kinda brushed aside)and don’t get me started on the lack of Even. He was(I’m assuming)a big part of her life, he was best friends with her brother and was probably around a lot and we just didn’t get the storyline they deserved.

*pours one out for the s4 we imagined during the hiatus* 

Common trauma? Amazing how William knows Noora doesn't feel loved and left by her parents yet he shuts her out and leaves her after he's seen her having a panic attack when she can't breathe and says she feels as if she's going to die over something she isn't ready to share yet. And this is supposed to be a desirable relationship? At least they are attractive? But attractive white fuckboys have always gotten what they point at.

Yeahhhhhhhh, it really does make it harder to excuse what he does when he knows something is wrong and she’s actually pretty upfront with “there’s something I have to tell you but can’t yet”.

it's amazing how most 18/19 are decent at that age and you get to vote, drive and drink, but if you are a rich badboy you have a right to act however you want and people must forgive you in the end. since julie never made his bff chris be more than a second supporting character, why couldn't he be the huge asshole instead and wilhelm had to be torn with his loyalty? then I rmbr the blackmail date did so he missed defending his boys, tg s1 didn't say it was the date's fault he wasn't there! 😊

I don’t even mind that they started William out as an asshole, they just went too far with it imho and never pointed out “this behavior is wrong and we know it” and he never had to atone or redeem himself for what he did.

n8rhelm is supposed to be the classic hate to love story, there's a million movies but ive never seen one where the person is terrible to the love interest and manipulate them like this. also william is a really weak actor, don't know if that doesn't translate,all he have is his looks and glaring stares. he couldn't even deliver pretending to be a bad actor with niko there or when he tells nooea to be quick with the water. he has no timing or natrualness, only kisses and react n's great acting

I find Thomas Hayes to be... not a great actor but also not completely terrible? There’s some scenes I buy him (the marching band scene where he’s rolling his eyes I remember as good?) but he doesn’t bring a lot sometimes. idk.

thegirlnooneknows5 replied to your post “(1) ok I’m pro-noorhelm and arguing via ask is hard with a limit and I…”

And whenever Noora talks about his good qualities and whatnot, we never really get to see them. It’s all off screen. It would be easier to forgive him if we actually got to see his change, but ah well

☝ I think that would really improve things, tbh.

thegirlnooneknows5 replied to your post “the funniest argument to me used by noorh*lm stans in excusing his…”

It also perpetuates the idea that ‘no means convince me’ and that’s farked up

Ugh, yeah. That’s one of the more depressing undercurrents of s2.

daigina replied to your post “1)The truth is really in the eyes of the beholder , you guys don’t…”

I agree it’s a good move with William but it does nothing to resolve the major problem with him that season which is how he treated Noora with no discussion or explanation or apology at all. If that detail had been fitted into even a short discussion between the two over all of THAT in Williams clip that would have been soooo nice

Also that was such a tiny thing?? Like they didn’t even spare two seconds of dialogue on it, it’s barely there. If you need a magnifying glass to see character development, does it count?

Yeah, I liked that lawyer detail but it really was such a last minute, supplementary thing!

i still think julie had no idea what the fight was about in s4 or changed her mind when someone was coming back. we knew she rewrote and missed gullruten, several norwiegians reported on rumors at the time that she bearly had written the last episode when it was time for recording. she wrote the fan fave to have an unprovoked violent moments just in time to bring back the one who everyone complained had hit someone with a bottle. and how could yousef've been so wrong about what happened at bakka

oh god, let’s not even get started. it just makes me sad to think about how thrown together s4 wound up being.

Hi. Is it true that skam italia is using a white actress to play Sana, a muslim character?If so, it is wrong in so many levels, tbh!

I believe the actress is white and isn’t a muslim. And yeah, nagl. 

I feel like that with skam france they have the intention to do a season 3 and want it to start in autumn to align with the original series. I’m not saying I agree or like this tactic but it seems to make the most sense of why. Sure the time span is short between 1 and 2 but it’s not the most unrealistic. The director said he went on this project because of season 3 especially so I guess that’s why I think it’s like this. It would be more odd for Lucas to move in to the flat during the year.

Oh god... sorry, not you, I’m just at the point where I really don’t like being reminded that season three will ever be remade anywhere.