#to be clear this is directed at those who say these things in the sylki tag or on sylki posts

[where-theres-smoak-2]

You still have to admire how crazy some pro Lokius are... I'm still stunned.

https://www.tumblr.com/darklinaforever/734355929616842752/everybody-lies

I do think they are living a bit in denial but I wish I could say this surprises me, but its not new, they've always taken sylki moments and tried to warp them into being l*kius moments. The 'its about who scene' although it is about the whole gang collectively it was confirmed that Sylvie was the last trigger that helped him control his time-slipping, when asked very explicitly if that line was about a specific person or the group as a whole the response the head writer said was it was both, meaning it was specifically directed and about Sylvie but also encompassed the rest of the group who were his found family, so you could argue that scene is a sylki scene but they always use it as 'proof' that L*kius is canon. Other scenes they use in this way are the 'for you' scene which as many have pointed out is a throwback to thor when he said the same thing. Again others have pointed this out but the structure of the original line was the 'for you' was directed at a singular person, his father, the 'for all of us' was to include thor and the people of asgard. Seeing as this line is a mirror of the original it makes sense that the 'for you' is directed at a singular person. It also makes sense with everything we've seen in the show, the fact that its the canon ship, that this 'for you' is directed at Sylvie. Especially as the line just before it is him saying 'I know what I want, I know what kind of god I need to be' which are continuations of conversations Loki had with Sylvie alone, the one in the bar where she asks him what he wants, and the one where he visits her to tell her about the loom being a failsafe and him possibly having to kill her and she says he'd be taking everyone's free will from them and asks him if that is the kind of god he wants to be. I'm not going to say this line is one hundred percent definitely directed at Sylvie alone, we'd need confirmation from a writer, producer or tom who improvised the line, for that. But logic tells me its most likely directed at her. But again any time a sylki makes a post about that scene you'll have l*kius shippers jumping in to scream that mobius was there too. Well thor was there too in the original scene but nobody will deny that the 'for you' was directed at only Odin. Sylvie was the more prominent figure in that scene, she was (literally) front and centre.

Then there is the scene you've mentioned here, with that final look loki gives over his shoulder, which honestly that look gave me goosebumbs. But as you pointed out Sylvie was the one they focus on the most in this moment, her reaction. But they edited her out completely in that gif set, though to be fair to the op of that gif set they have tagged it correctly so its up to them if they want to edit her out, shippers are going to ship. But what I love about that scene was how it parallels the one in 1x5 when they are facing alioth and Loki decides to be the distraction so Sylvie can enchant it, she shakes her head at him the same way because she doesn't want him to sacrifice himself, she doesn't want to lose him but he goes anyway because he knows there is a greater purpose and lives to save. To me the culmination of Loki's arc, of him making this sacrifice, comes back to that line in 1x6, he just wants Sylvie to be ok, this sacrifice is how he ensures that happens.

I'll admit I've never quite seen this amount of denial from a fandom before, like I've seen people ship non canon ships before, I've shipped plenty of non canon ships before myself, but usually the fandom will enjoy the ships scenes and content but still recognise that the ship isn't canon. Having antis try and gaslight me into believing that I misinterpreted the canon ship is also a new experience for me but, all of this being said, if they are keeping it in their own tag and not harassing sylki shippers, then I just leave them to it, if that's what makes them happy, why should I worry about what they ship or post? I find I am happier just enjoying the content from my ship and trying to ignore any negativity, though I appreciate that is sometimes hard to do especially when it features prominently in the main loki tag and some of the takes are, at best, really bizarre or, at worst, very insulting to sylki shippers.

[charcubed]

Look, I personally lose nothing if Lokius doesn’t become explicit canon. And if that were to become the case, I’d also have no regrets for saying for years that that would happen in the show by the end ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I’ve said it before, but by now it would be Disney/Marvel’s loss, NOT mine. Whoever wasted or limited the potential would be the idiot, not me.

I’m simply never gonna feel crazy for noticing what’s happening in a story or silly for daring to hope it’ll be brought to fully satisfying narrative completion. That's just a me thing. Maybe this is because at heart I’m stubborn! But I’d like to think I’m not unreasonable. I can’t control whether writing stays consistent or censorship is overcome... But I just do my best to construct solid arguments, and as long as those arguments remain solid, I stand by them :)

I know not everyone would say the same, or they consider this to be "hope" or "optimism," but I see it as logic based in noticing what the text of a show/story is doing. And personally I also consider blatantly evident subtext to be "canon enough," so if we get my personal minimum, my happiness may still outweigh any potential disappointment for me.

However. Here's what I've come here to say today, in reaction to things I've seen floating around in the fandom:

While I do understand on some level why people worry that Lokius won’t be more explicitly canonically romantic because it could be censored by Disney.... At this point, I don’t understand how people can think Loki/Sylvie will still happen.

As of right now, there’s no way to argue for that in my opinion. (I'd like to see someone try.)

The show has set up a fun but very simple situation from basically the start:

They made romantic love a point of relevance in the show’s story. More specifically, they pointed out Loki's desire for a "real" romantic love, and had him learn the lesson that he doesn't deserve to be alone. They didn't HAVE to do all of those things and tie them together. They CHOSE to make romantic love relevant – and they have actively continued to choose to do that, to the point of including a mirrored dark love triangle in s2 ep3. That narrative thread simply has to be fulfilled.

So if they deliberately established that Loki wants and needs a “real” love, and his relationship with Sylvie was referred to as "fiction" so she cannot be a real love for him.... Who does it have to be?

Obviously it has to be Mobius. And of course, the whole show points to Lokius also, for countless more reasons than just this simple breakdown. But pointing this element out is the simplest argument one can make.

So either...

1. They take Lokius to full narrative completion with explicit canon, as they should and as I expect them to,

or

2. Loki's desire for a real love is left unfulfilled, open-ended, and/or made clear through subtext that it's Mobius.

Those are the options, if you ask me!

This is aside from how Lokius’ love story is now even at the core of the show’s themes and plot, which is an insanely strong vote in favor for their future canonicity.

But for the purposes of this post, I’m talking about whether we'll get explicit romance specifically, like a love confession or a kiss ��� and I do actually genuinely think we'll get both of those things. I'm not trying to force you to agree with me, but just to be clear, that's where I'm at with it and have been since 2021 lol.

So in regards to worrying about Loki/Sylvie...

They were never really a romance (yes, even in season 1) and they sure as hell aren't now. I can’t imagine they'll become one even IF Lokius is left subtextual.

So what actually remains to be seen is if the writers got to go all the way with Lokius, or if that central queer love story was censored on some level in the end.

My hot take is no one should be ~worrying~ about Sylki at this stage of the game. Free yourselves, people.

If the story starts abruptly going in a Sylki direction, even with only 3 episodes left, I will certainly be the first to say so lol. But I simply sincerely, truly doubt that'll happen.

(Hot take in the footer: this is not the post to get into this at length, but in case this comes up… In this house we do not use the word "queerbaiting." It is a useless, nearly-meaningless, insufferable term that devalues the legitimacy of subtext and queercoding more often than not; it's rooted in the idea that media must hit arbitrary and inconsistent checklists often set with cishet approval in mind; and it perpetuates a focus on the false and harmful myth that many creators are "cowards" instead of leaving room for nuance and the fact that industry censorship still exists.)

[bebx]

Honestly, I don't get how people can think that Sylki won't be endgame. Are they forgetting that it's Disney? Or that the writer is a Sylki shipper? Let's be realistic. I agree that it would make zero sense, but this argument is lame, because we know Marvel doesn't care and they're capable of doing that. I wouldn't be surprised if they rushed it and pulled "actually Sylvie has been in love with him the entire time, but she's been hiding it, trying to push him away, because she thinks she doesn't deserve love. But she got over it now." Not to be rude, but I feel like everyone who believes that Sylki won't happen is delusional. I really want Lokius to happen, not Sylki, but even the idea of Sylki not happening is too good to be true. I feel like those leaks are true.

the leaks, which came from several people who claimed to have seen the entire season (and they all said the same thing), were correct about Marvel’s revealing that Mobius has 2 sons in episode five. I know it’s just a “rumor” and there’s no way to know if they really did see the entire season, but tbh I expect Marvel to pull the Sylki endgame in the finale (like how those leaks also said they would do that, getting Loki and Sylvie back together in the last episode).

if I had to guess, I’d say it’d go exactly the way you said, that Sylvie was always in love with Loki all along, but didn’t think she deserved to be loved, hence why she tried to push him away.

I would love to be wrong, but I guess we’re all finding out soon.

also I wouldn’t call anybody delusional for thinking Sylki won’t be endgame or that Lokius will be canon, unless it’s in a joking manner where I’m also making fun of myself. but in all seriousness, I don’t think anybody is ever “delusional” for having opinions about which direction the show will go based on what was actually showed so far in the series. because if this weren’t Disney, I’d say Lokius would absolutely go canon, after all those hints and everything they gave us so far. Sylki parting ways as friends and Lokius going canon as a couple are very highly unlikely, but it’s not entirely impossible either.

as for the writer, if you mean Eric Martin, dude’s a troll (and I say this with respect lol nothing against him, I’m sure he’s a good person with good sense of humor), he’s always liked both Sylki and Lokius posts because he knows fans monitor his likes and I fully believe he’s doing it on purpose just to (playfully) mess with the audience. so I wouldn’t take whatever he liked on social media as a “confirmation” of anything, not even his personal opinion about which ship he thinks is “better”.

*and even if he does personally ship Sylki, it’d still be unfair imo to assume he only made Sylki endgame solely because he personally liked the ship. if he’s a professional writer, I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he had other reasons behind his writing choices that had nothing to do with his personal feelings, since after all, the characters belong to Marvel, not him. so his personal preferences shouldn’t be the only factor in deciding which direction things should go. (to be clear, what I mean is: it’s perfectly okay — and it is a good thing — to write a story based on how you, the writer, personally prefer, but I don’t think he’d make Sylki endgame just because he liked it without any other reasons involved when it’s still Marvel’s show and he was hired by Marvel, not his show, if that makes sense.)

[musclesandhammering]

Loki (2021) Positivity from an Anti

Ok so all of my mutuals know I’m extremely anti-Loki (2021), anti-sylki, and anti-sylvie. But at a certain point, even we antis get tired of all the negativity. So! Here’s some Loki series commentary in the opposite direction! This is a list of all the things about the show that I loved :)

Also adding a disclaimer that all of this is just my opinion and some of my fellow antis (or even people who liked the show) might disagree, and that’s fine! I’ve been planning this post for awhile. I always say in my other posts that I don’t entirely hate the show and I wanted to be a little more specific about what I think are its good aspects. Feel free to leave your thoughts!

• Mobius is a gem (Owen Wilson owns my whole heart) and his relationship with Loki is so so great. He’s not one-dimensional at all, he has conflicted loyalty and is morally complex, and he has the tragic backstory- which makes him a perfect choice for eventually becoming Loki’s first genuine friend.

• The casting was really really great. Lots of women and people of color. Most of the female actresses (as well as the males) are over 30, which isn’t very common and is fantastic!

• Superb acting all around. I can’t think of a single scene where the actors under or oversold it.

• Beautiful set design, incredible cgi, and gorgeous cinematography overall. It looked more like a movie than a tv show, which is really good.

• Kang being the big bad was a huge plus for me. Johnathan Majors was perfect in the role, his vibes were immaculate, and I was honestly pretty worried that the man behind the curtain would end up being another Loki variant, which imo would’ve been boring and predictable and counter-productive, so it was a big relief when that didn’t happen.

• I like that it sets up a bunch of future marvel movies, rather than being contained to its own little world. It gives it more importance and (hopefully) will encourage writers to not just toss Loki’s character aside in future projects.

• All the Loki variants were delightful. All of them except Sylvie. Kid Loki has my heart. Boastful Loki is a fashion icon. Alligator Loki is a savage. President Loki is the superior variant. Classic Loki became my fav character in less than half an episode.

• It showed some more variety in Loki’s magic. A lot of his powers we’ve seen before, but it feels like they were portrayed a bit more blatantly in the show. The energy blasts, the telekinesis, the teleportation… Outstanding.

• It also implied that Loki has the potential to be waaaay more powerful than he knows he is right now, which? Yes.

• Some of the quotes- and the themes behind them- are just profound as hell. Such as:

“I think we’re stronger than we realise.”

“It’s never too late to change.”

“You can be whoever you wanna be, even someone good.”

“We’re Lokis. We survive. It’s what we do.”

“Loki, God of Outcasts.”

“The universe wants to break free, that’s why it manifests chaos.”

• Technically Loki was Marvel’s first canon lgbt (bi) character, which is a win. His genderfluidity is also technically canon, even if it wasn’t really acknowledged on-screen.

• There were a lot of throwback references to Thor 1, Avengers, and Thor The Dark World. Which I loved.

• Sylvie’s so pretty. Her hair and makeup and costume were all perfect.

• Big fan of Loki finally getting Laevateinn.

• Sufficiently slutty imagery, courtesy of a female director (Loki in a collar, kneeling to Sif, President Loki looking down into the bunker, the hair flips)

• The music was Excellent Wonderful and Superb.

• I love that Loki being a good singer is now canon.

• I love that Asgardians having their own language is now canon (even if it’s basically just Icelandic).

• I also love that they disproved all of those “Loki was a shy nerdy wallflower pre-canon” theories in Episode 3. The drinking/eating/singing scene was fun, if a bit wacky.

• There’s a million different reasons why Loki does what he does, especially in regards to the New York attack (I’m literally writing a huge meta on them), but somehow I never considered that Loki being desperate for control was one of them. It makes a lot of sense, and I always love getting new insights into his motivations.

• I love that Loki finally outright acknowledged that he doesn’t enjoy hurting people. We Been Knew™️ but it’s still nice to hear it out loud from his own mouth.

• The TVA outfit wasn’t as hideous as some people make it out to be. It could’ve been A Look, even. You know, if he’d just accessorised a little better. And kept the jacket on. And not gotten sweaty. And not gotten dirty. And maybe had at least one other costume change… But it had potential, though!!

• Even though I despise the Obvious One, I did actually like some of the other romance crumbs they tossed us (sifki, Loki x the flight attendant).

• The whole DB Cooper thing was iconic idc idc.

• Loki’s hyper sort of overly excited puppy attitude in episode 2 was actually pretty refreshing and funny (for awhile). And now I can headcanon him as adhd, yeehaw.

• “We’re all villains here.” That quote was iconic, my favourite one in the show. And the entire theme that it summarised was really great as well. When you think about it, every single main character in this series has been the villain at one point or another. I mean, I know all marvel characters do bad things etc, but none of the Heroes are ever narratively categorised as Bad. This show did just that with all of them, though. . Loki was framed as the psychopath that attacked New York. Sylvie was framed as the murderous fugitive. The TVA/Ravonna/Mobius were framed as the murderous fascists. Kang was framed as the crazy totalitarian. It’s made clear that all the Loki variants were the villains of their stories.

However, every single main character in the series is also framed as the Hero at a certain point. Loki is framed as the main protagonist who throws a wrench in the TVA’s dastardly plans. Sylvie is framed as the persevering freedom fighter who wants to take down the fascists. The TVA/Mobius/Ravonna are framed as the ones who maintain order for the greater good. Kang is framed as the weird but ultimately benevolent wise man who’s just trying to prevent something worse from happening. The Loki variants are framed as generous allies who befriend the main character and help him on his journey.

Everyone in this equation is openly acknowledged by the narrative to be morally corrupt, but not entirely morally bankrupt. There are no Straightforward Hero Figures (like the Avengers) in this entire scenario at all, and that makes for a super interesting dynamic that marvel has never done before. So yes: “We’re all villains here.” But also: “No one bad is ever truly bad, and no one good is ever truly good.” I loved that.

• Even if it wasn’t really enough imo, I still treasure the crumbs we got of Loki being competent and capable (him putting the collar on B-15, him figuring out Sylvie’s hiding place, him teaching himself to enchant on the fly while fighting a giant cloud beast of eldritch proportions).

• I love that B-15 was the one who stepped in and saved the day in Episode 4, when we all thought it was gonna be Mobius. What a queen.

• Marvel usually has a bit of a problem with creating compelling and memorable side characters. But aside from Sylvie, I genuinely got attached to every single character in this show. Like Casey, C-20? I was seriously emotionally invested in them and they were only in like 2 episodes. Wtf.

• Introducing the TVA storyline in the Loki series specifically was a really good move. I’m not saying they executed it well, just that it had a ton of potential. A lot of people have wondered why marvel even thought to put those two (the TVA and Loki) together, when they had literally nothing to do with each other, nothing in common, and essentially no connection at all. But when you think about it, it’s a really interesting twist on both of those stories. Forcing the embodiment of destructive chaos and the pillar of rigid order to interact could make for some seriously entertaining and compelling television. And as far as meshing these two completely unrelated entities together goes, I thought they did it pretty well- at least just the bare bones of the story (loki being arrested by the TVA and being one of their most common variants).

So that’s it! If you guys (fellow antis) wanna add stuff you liked, feel free. If anyone wants to discuss (or debate) my list, feel free to do that too!