#tos: s3

[anghraine]

I was thinking about my personal "TOS is really its own thing" headcanons for K/S, and also, that one of the things that really surprised me when I actually marathoned the whole series was the acknowledged ethical issue around captain/crew fraternization.

To rewind back to my ship, lol: I definitely think that Spock and Kirk are obsessively in love with each other, and it's pretty obvious that every other relationship and person in their lives pales in comparison, but I don't actually imagine that they've said or done anything about this beyond the kinds of things we've seen onscreen.

I mean. Yes, that includes things like "when Kirk gets a massage on the bridge for his back pain, he just assumes it's Spock and is intensely uncomfortable to discover it's someone else" + the two of them saying breathtaking romantic things with obvious heart eyes while ignoring the existence of everyone around them + Kirk's most compelling and insightful love interest remarking that Spock obviously belongs with him as if he always will be at Kirk's side + everything "Amok Time" chooses to be + mutual seething jealousy/Spock excising his rival from Kirk's mind while he sleeps + Kirk saying Spock is closer to him than anyone in the universe + Spock regularly abandoning his principles when it comes to Kirk etc etc etc. But I don't think they've actually said what they feel or initiated a (physically) sexual relationship during TOS itself.

Taking TOS by itself and ignoring the regular reboots of their characterizations in ... well, everything else, I definitely feel like they're moving inexorably towards that kind of unambiguous romantic relationship in TOS, just that they haven't quite taken that last step yet.

In fact, I suspect that the "You are closer to the captain than anyone in the universe" statement from bodysnatched Kirk to Spock is likely the most explicit statement either has made about how they feel or what their relationship really is, and it carefully stops just short of saying too much. And it's immediately followed by a) a mind-meld, I think the fourth between them, but the first in which Spock effortlessly melds them without a single word to help, and b) one of the most extended periods of physical contact between them, with iirc over two minutes of Spock holding Kirk's bare hand/wrist on screen as they try to escape together signifying nothing, with scene cuts suggesting the actual duration may in fact be longer (*gasps in Vulcan*).

The show ends with that episode because of the cancellation, but there's something weirdly apropos about it as a finale on a purely shipping level. I definitely felt like the dynamic between them has reached such a point by "Turnabout Intruder" that there's no going back. But I don't think anything more significant than what we've seen has happened off screen, just that the acknowledgment of the nature of their feelings and the shift to an overtly romantic, sexual relationship seem inevitable at this point. And by "overtly," I mean to each other, not necessarily anyone else.

There are various reasons I feel this way. Partly it's the high-octane yearning and repression that both exhibit in very different ways, which I think make more sense if they haven't acknowledged anything yet or transitioned away from pretending it's platonic. But one reason I envision them as Not Quite There But Definitely Going To Be, that I've rarely seen mentioned thus far, is something I would never have guessed from pop culture or even fandom osmosis.

Early in the series, Kirk explicitly states that he considers his crew completely off-limits in a romantic context. This ethical restriction applies only to him and not any other senior officers. Throughout the rest of the series, we're told and shown that Starfleet does not forbid fraternization among crew members of different ranks. Kirk himself says that it would be fine for Spock to have a romantic relationship with Janice Rand, just not Kirk.

And moreover, Kirk never does voluntarily enter a romantic relationship with any crew member. He and Janice Rand have a mutual infatuation for awhile that both handle with as much professionalism as possible. The closest thing to an openly romantic interaction with a crew member is probably Kirk kissing Helen Noel after Helen and Dr. Adams artificially screwed around with his memories and feelings—but we discover in the process that he was the one who refused to do more than dance at the Christmas party, when he backed off and scrupulously talked about space while Helen was the one with the unsentimental sex fantasy who keeps pushing his boundaries even in the present. That's why he's so unusually hostile; they were never together, even as a fling, and she hasn't taken no for an answer.

I guess Kirk and Mulholl agreeing to be possessed by married aliens for a final goodbye kiss is sort of ...? I mean. You get it, sometimes there's some sci-fi plot device, but nothing real and nothing while he has full control of his body and mind.

Kirk's real exes are all former long-term girlfriends, most of them also part of Starfleet and professionals in science or science-adjacent fields, but never crew members.

It's not 100% clear in TOS if the repeated statements and suggestions about lack of Starfleet restrictions on fraternization except wrt the captain is Starfleet policy, or just Kirk's personal stance. Kirk says he's not allowed to have a relationship of that kind with Janice Rand in "The Naked Time," but he's contracted the disease by then and it's part of a generally unhinged ramble. It's later stated that romance isn't forbidden on Starfleet vessels, but that's about crew romances in general and not the captain in particular. So it's difficult to know the real source of the ethical prohibition. Maybe there are actual regulations around this (makes sense) or maybe it's just a hard ethical line that Kirk has independently chosen for himself (also makes sense), but when he's functional and autonomous enough to be held responsible for his actions, this is a line he does not cross.

The point here is that, while I don't remotely blame other K/S fans for ignoring this inconvenient fraternization detail, Spock is a member of Kirk's crew. Yes, he's a senior officer and the highest-ranking person on the ship after Kirk himself, so maybe it wouldn't be as egregious as with someone else—but then again, maybe Kirk propositioning Spock would be considered even more unethical than propositioning Janice, since Janice at least has other authorities over her, while Spock answers directly to Kirk in the chain of command and will do virtually anything Kirk tells or asks him to do.

Kirk and Spock's relationship is intense and [gestures] everything enough that there are scenarios where I could imagine Kirk dropping this otherwise non-negotiable ethical line (the classic is, of course, "Spock's human heritage makes his pon farr cycle erratic and it comes back early ... oh no..."). I don't think we've seen any such scenario during TOS, though.

In any case, I feel like Kirk is unlikely to proposition Spock either romantically or sexually during the five-year mission. After years of constant proximity and yearning and ostensibly platonic hijinks and assuming it would never happen, I could see his resolve crumbling if Spock tried to initiate a romance with him. But that is also unlikely throughout most of TOS, because of Spock's own hang-ups around emotion and attachment—he's struggling with shame over feeling basic friendly affection, and in reality he feels far more than that.

I also don't think their true preferences when it comes to love, or their sense of what love really is for them, are inclined towards casual/undefined relationships or even poly relationships. So I don't personally envision them as FWBs or in a "they were in love but not taking it that seriously" scenario; I don't think either situation would be all that probable or desirable for them. They're both conspicuously jealous of anything or anyone that could possibly compete with their own absolute centrality in each other's lives; Spock never so much as kisses anyone without being dubconned into it and is guilty about having friends; Kirk's entire sexual history when it's not For The Mission is consistently geared towards long-term and sentimentally romantic relationships. Kirk supplies a very clear, emphatic description of love as he understands it:

Is he important to you, more important than anything? Is he as though he were a part of you? [...] But you can't really love him. You haven't the slightest knowledge of love, the total union of two people.

Kirk understands impossible/forbidden love in terms of some fundamental separation from a single beloved, being perpetually apart from them and unable to achieve the kind of absolute joining of lives and minds that he regards as love. (In some ways, this seems an incredibly Vulcan perspective on love, which, well.)

I think he and Spock are close to crossing the last barriers to that point of absolute union by "Turnabout Intruder," given their extreme intimacy as well as the very real possibility of grafting their lives and minds to each other in the way both pretty clearly crave. But I feel like there are only two ways it can really happen: 1) some wildly fortunate circumstance makes it ethically justifiable for Kirk to approach Spock, or 2) Spock makes the first move, which means that unless they're just randomly very lucky, everything hangs on him coming to terms with himself.

Then again, I also think Spock's arc across the show is building towards a point where he is coming to terms with himself in that way, with asserting what he wants, what bothers him, and what he's willing to reach for or accept. By the finale, I can believe he's truly on the point of getting there.

The movies hit the reset and retcon buttons hard, but taking TOS by itself as aired, the arc of their relationship and its development over the course of the show feels more hopeful to me. I can believe that S3 Spock has grown into himself enough to get to the point he needs to be at to make the first ("first") move before much longer. This is the Spock who essentially told Starfleet to go fuck themselves because they wouldn't let him jeopardize a fraught diplomatic situation to search for Kirk, told Sulu to scan for Kirk for potentially years, then defied explicit orders and tracked him down personally. There is very little he wouldn't do for Kirk by S3.

Kirk, meanwhile, has never been anything but 1000% receptive to whatever Spock is willing to give him; he spends a significant portion of TOS looking like he's about to dissolve into hearts at eye contact and a slight mouth twitch from Spock, if that. By S3, though, he's visibly more ground-down and tired, he's been put through further horrors that he often only escaped via his intimacy with Spock, and he's increasingly desperate for real connection. I can believe that at this point, he'd finally be at "fuck it" if Spock's love was on the table.

So I don't think that during the time period of TOS, their romance is formalized at all, or even acknowledged, or that they have a sexual relationship beyond the turbo-charged UST and frequent physical contact (to a degree that seems likely obscene on Vulcan. but as Spock no doubt justifies to himself, they're not on Vulcan). But I also think that by the end of the show, their dynamic has moved towards a stage where the shift to an unambiguously romantic relationship, even if hidden, feels inevitable and imminent. I genuinely feel like they're so close to full honesty with each other at this point that it can't be long, and that's with over a year of the mission left.

[pigegone]

I don't think the seduction is working bestie

[comebackali]

they really popped tf off with spock as a character. no one will ever be him again. the way he bitchily says, "35" when the lady from plato's stepchildren asks him how old he thinks she is, and he doesn't even look sorry when she's so offended cuz she stopped aging at 30. i'm obsessed.

[spockvarietyhour]

Star Trek "The Savage Curtain"

[cursedtrekedits]

Request: One of the "Columbo in TOS" edits you made (it doesn't matter which one) with the words "GUEST STAR PETER FALK AS COLUMBO" in TOS Season 3 credits typography style.

so you’re asking for just one more thing?

[boneskullravenriver]

I'm sorry but McCoy immediately going "that's not Spock!" Then a second later "that's Spock!" While he was being possessed by the alien ambassador had me dying of laughter. The delivery was comedy gold😂

[kyanitedragon]

Captain James T. Kirk is alloaro

Evidence:

It's said 3 times in season 1 alone that the Enterprise is his lover, and that he would prioritize it over any woman

The only "romances" he has are (1) past lovers of his returning for an episode, or (2) flirting with the woman of the week in order to save his crew — femme fatale style

His uniform is gold, and his secondary wraparound outfit is green — the alloaro flag colors

[basimdasasonst]

tos spock: logic may be a philosophical path that i have dedicated much of my life to the path of -- as far as considering and almost completing kolinahr -- but it does not make me all that i am. i am a person outside of my physicalities, with wants, needs, and other such things that i can allow myself through the cracks of my teachings

snw spock: did u know im a vulcan. only half tho ... raagaghaahhah ... (meek noises of protest against his humanity)

no. but seriously. on that ... thing of an snw s3 recap: others have divested much more time and energy into talking about vulcan philosophy vs biology (and there's a plethora of very good takes about it if you do only the most minor of searching) so i won't harp on the matter, but i want to step back and observe the writing and characterisation beyond the colossal fuck up that is -- well, their disintegration of vulcan culture/complexities.

[i'll -- try to keep this brief but no promises. i did spend 2000 words ranting about how badly they did spock so, brevity thy name is not basimdasas]

let me just. let's just pretend we can get over the fact they mixed biology with philosophy. let's just let that slide for a second. why -- and i cannot stress this enough -- the fuck do (pike, uhura, la'an, chapel -- i'll call them fake vulcans for my own sake) the fake vulcans talk the fucking same ... ? moreover -- why are they the same person -- logical. Purely Wholey Logical (trademark). if you transcribed the text of the 5 minute episode we were given and took out the dialogue tags -- they're. they're all the same person. you cannot tell who's talking, maybe through context clues. Guys. (shakes the writers really hard, enough to give an adult shaken baby syndrome) VULCANS HAVE PERSONALITIES TOO. i've felt a small undercurrent of this in the previous seasons but it feels directly amplified to me now -- spock's "humanity" is -- is his personality. They're making his personality his humanity. dude.

let me put it this way: you put two nihilists in a room. they've grown up in different ways, in different places, and were introduced to nihilism by their parents who also believed and practised in the philosophy. you let them talk. they're going to disagree, they might even get angry at the other. they'll agree. if there is something inherently correct that they can both acknowledge, they will have different viewpoints of tackling the concept -- based not just on the objective teachings, but the environment they grew up in, their communities, their parents, and their own personal traits. now let's take them out of the box. you compare the two at a distance: one likes grape smoothies, the other likes peach. one is a morning person, one is not. one is a competitive swimmer. one works in an office. they both find relative comfort from their jobs, even if in different ways. they are both nihilists. yet, inextricably, they are different in many ways.

ONLY VULCANS WHO HAVE UNDERGONE KOLINAHR WOULD LACK EMOTIONS. VULCANS STILL HAVE EMOTIONS THEY JUST TAMP THEM DOWN.

ok. calm. i'm drawing a tad on my experience as a trans man with gender here, but there are some things about us that are fundamental to our being that we are inherently drawn to for various reasons, i believe. i mean, that's what personality is, in a severe nutshell. that's why we have assholes who continue to be assholes (garner pleasure from it, usually). people who continue to let themselves get stepped over (never learned to stand up for themselves, environmental factor, or is afraid, or what have you). people who learn from their mistakes (ambition, or an intense desire for personal growth. where does this desire come from? changes per person. it's never the same). people who don't. kind people. mean people. we can change our personalities (with work!), but they are as much a product of emotion as they are environment, personal wants, personal needs, etc. everyone is built different (lol, but literally) -- and there really are truly some things we cannot just -- purge completely, by a point. dilute, but never fully erase. example: i know in my heart that i am not a woman. i gravitate towards anger. i have never been good at history, no matter the angle i tackle it from. there will never be a day where i read the fine print of a legal document. i could become good at history, i am fixing my anger, but i will always naturally gravitate right where i want to be, and right where i need to be. i will always understand numbers better than words, because that's -- just how my brain works, and i'm alright enough with it to not feel the need to put in effort to change my state. shift my balance. my memory might always be a little wonky. this is all ok. fuck, it might not be logical that i'm so utterly useless at history, and sure i can work to change it, but i will always find myself more comfortable and more at ease in physics with the same amount of work. the logical thing from there is to just accept my weaknesses and move with my strengths. see where i'm going with this? and sure, i can definitely change most of my personality, but it's hard. sometimes that effort is good sometimes it's not. we have natural tendencies. we have different wants, different needs. and by the universe do we not all share the same body -- we will amble around in our flesh suits differently. my gait will be different than yours; it is no less of a walk.

[tl;dr -- based on how we are raised, and the effort we put in then, and now, to define our natures, i believe we have things we (as people) naturally gravitate towards. they can be changed, but its hard.]

((edit: i don't want to come across as saying we are locked into a person lol. we arent. we as people change often. where we gravitate will change over time -- that's good. never think you can't change, because you can. anyway, i've rambled on my point enough))

anyway. tangent aside. short story -- we gravitate to things. that's natural. that's logical. diversity of a species is logical -- especially for society.

now, vulcans, in my heart of hearts, are definitely more subtle about these things because, you know, surak, but. if every vulcan was the same and had the same inherent -- wants, needs, interests, subdued emotions, way of headbutting logic -- then you have a society of mirrors. snw is trying to make vulcan society a society of mirrors.

pike is caring. la'an is quiet, strict, efficent. uhura, also, is caring but in a different way to pike. chapel is enthusiastic. by embracing suraks teachings and (magically, mysteriously) acting in accordance to them fully, they are effectively tamping down their greater feelings. not completely ridding of them. despite the fact that vulcan!pike would logically find no sense in compassion, he would also find no sense in cruelty. he is, to his heart, a compassionate person because he has made himself one. one philosophical revelation wouldn't remove decades of that. sure, he might tamp it down, but he'd still be more compassionate than anything else. he would not be cruel for logic's sake -- even if, yes, there's only "4.5 vulcans", logically -- he wouldn't say that. he wouldn't fucking say that because he is kind hearted and though it's true, it would feel "illogical to point out" -- he is good with people. has been for the duration of the show, and probably a good majority before that. he'd understand the emotions of others regardless, he's very perceptive. he'd see spock flinch at "a half". he'd roundabout it in that way that tos spock loved to do -- talk in half truths. "5 people to beam down" is not wrong. it is imprecise but not wrong. (bones voice) goddammit, they're not all the same damn stereotypical rude vulcan asshole. i haven't read surak's teachings but i severely doubt he said, at any point: "harp on an unnecessary fact to be a total douchebag as often as vulcanely possible".

this goes for everyone too -- la'an is more the silent efficent type. why would she feel the need to say ... much of anything to the effect? spock knows he's half vulcan. everyone does. what the fuck does it bring to the table to reiterate it? nothing.

you're doing the jj abrams special: creating conflict where they should be none, and ignoring a greater place to create conflict. seriously, even if i do believe the whole thing about genetics that chapel does (WHICH! BY THE WAY! THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IT'S BEEN MENTIONED/PLOT RELEVANT SINCE 1X01!) why is spock not, instead, helping them regulate their emotions? why are they not like pre-reform vulcans? why not use this to help us stir a bit in spock's head instead of using an out that isn't "making spock the butt of the joke". why can't he show vulcan!kindness as he's so often showing in tos. mf let me into that writers room i just want to talk i ju-

also, the dialogue was super cringy. sorry, it was. i say this as a writer who has written super cringy dialogue before and occasionally does so now. it was cringy. i've written better at the age of 12 in the margins of my maths notebook while bored out of my mind. some of these lines made me tense up. misplaced, or corny, or so severely out of character that it gave me a genuine headache by minute 2 of 5, or what have you: it was so so so bad.

i -- selfishly, almost -- hope that it's not too late to go back and fix it, but since filming has long wrapped up -- well. it's probably a moot point, but i'm deeply annoyed. again, i really want to like snw, but everything "spock" (and, by extension, vulcan) has been butchered so badly that watching the show is rather like reading a fic you really like with one tag that just ruins the whole thing. like you'll stick it out, but begrudgingly, and not with a lot of joy in your heart because of -- i don't know, some weirdly prevalent "daddy kink".

tl;dr -- we are not just a product of the objective teachings of our beliefs, and vulcans are not only reflections of surak's teachings.

snw writers: please kick jj abrams out of your writing room. he's not doing you any favours

[hvezdnastreka]

Spectre of the gun isn't a bad episode imo, and I think it's filmed in a really interesting and beautiful way, but I can't help and be disappointed by the outcome.

The episode starts out with The Enterprise following a civilization, that warns them, that they want to be left alone. After not listening, the crew gets transported to an 1811 Western town, where they replace a group of men meant to die in a shootout, that day. Spock remarks, that the reason this location was chosen for their punishment, is because the civilization saw Kirk's violent heritage and found it a fitting punishment.

The brothers that are meant to kill them keep telling them, that if they don't leave by 5pm, they're going to shoot them. 5pm as a deadline is brought up constantly and it takes a good chunk of the episode for them to even attempt to leave the town (but they can't, because force fields lol). They choose not to kill, a mind meld happens, everyone lives and after seeing their peaceful ways, the civilization happily invites them to their planet.

I think that instead of the classic "look how peaceful we are!" TOS episode, that they've done so many times, it'd be more interesting to explore the idea that the civilization has a right to not involve themselves with the federation. It's actually where I thought it was going! They even call humans a disease, that will doom them (paraphrasing here). I thought the big revelation would be, that to escape the punishment, they must leave the town. That if they demonstrated their ability not to enforce themselves, where they don't belong, the civilization would either be thankful to be left alone or say that they're willing to talk now. Or maybe it would turn out that they'll literally die, if they're around humans and that's why they insist on solitude.

Again, I like the episode, but I think it'd be an interesting take. The federation wasn't really fleshed out in TOS, so they still resemble a navy more, than the peaceful curious scientists (with guns (for self defense)) they end up becoming.

To end on a positive note, the shot before Chekhov is shot (shot² haha), where the brother walk into the frame in the background like a bad omen is so amazing, I rewatched it over and over again. I think I liked it even more than the shootout scene and that was great as well.

[bazilisk]

Watching season 3 (the last season) of The Original Series right now. This is my first watch through.

I looked online a little bit at fan reactions. I saw that many fans dislike this season, because its budget was noticeably cut.

It's true, you can really see it. There's lots of reused footage. Lots of very minimal, obviously inexpensive, or reused, sets. There's a few sequences with narration, overlay, and what's clearly stock footage from CBS' library - this probably seemed lame at the time, but I loved how expressive and filmic those parts turned out.

This series is my favorite of the three, so far, because the characters are the most compelling. The writers and performers really embody the characters by now, And the lack of budget forces the plots to be more about the bridge crew, and less about the aliens, than in previous seasons.

This makes it more like an ensemble drama or comedy. It takes advantage of what TV as a medium does differently than movies: it gives you more time with the characters that the viewers enjoy.

It looks like Strange New Worlds learned this lesson from The Original Series when they wrote their stories: the most interesting part of a Star Trek show are the crew members reacting to and living through those long journeys through space. The aliens can be fascinating, but they just can't help but be less dramatically and comedically potent in the story than the main cast.

[ireallyamabear]

i've been watching soooo much star trek but bc of the rotating watch order i'm only just at the point where Sisko grows the beard. that also means soooo much star trek yet to go

[johnsspacesuittight]

"my wife, and my science officer" lmaoooo stop, that's so funny they just did that huh, yeah Kang my guy you're just like Kirk

[originaljediinjeans]

As little screentime or acknowledgement as Kirk's relationship with David got in Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock, the line 'You Klingon bastard, you killed my son!' packs a punch because there is an implication that Kirk looked forward to a future relationship with David and it was taken away from him suddenly and violently and I just--

Totally unrelated note: did Picard know about Kirk's son David? When he met his son Jack did he realize the parallel situation was in? Did he realize he had to make a connection with his son before it was too late for him also? And did this also lead to -- [passes out]I th

[metalgeartwo1990]

dude by the end of tos they didn't even bother putting other characters in landing parties

[funnywormz]

one thing about me is that whenever a series introduces a species of alien/monster etc and is like "these guys are all evil. every single one. completely irredeemable. they love killing and destruction and they have no function in the narrative outside of being awful and hurting people. they're all the same and none of them have the capacity to be good." i will always turn around and be like "but what if there was a nice and friendly one"

[allgremlinyaps]

"Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" not bad in a production value way (well paced, lacks some of s3's typical oddness) but. very bad in a "salient genocide and racism allegory" way.