#transmisogyny-explained

[gremlingirlsmell]

hey just so y'all know, rhetoric like this:

is anti-transfeminist dogwhistling.

the "radfems" they're talking about are transfems trying to define and use language about our own opression like "transmisogyny" and who is targeted by it.

"gender essentialism" is used to mean different things. for one it's meant to denounce tme/tma language, saying that everyone is targeted by transmisogyny the same, and depraving us of standpoint epistemology. a second meaning i often see is: it's "gender essentialism" to say "we live in a patriarchy that benefits men over women"

this tactic is used mainly to paint transfeminists as dangerous and transmasc-hating, for applying intersectionality and materialism to feminist theory. it's to shun us by calling us terfs (a hate group primarily centered against transfems) which will immediately mark us as unsafe for other transfems and trans people in general. this is done instead of calling us baeddels, because calling us medieval slurs has fallen out of fashion and has become too obviously transmisogynistic

[sassquire]

have you escaped the cave?

[trans-androgyne]

“All transandrobros talk about is trans women” — way to tell me all you’ve seen from us is the worst screenshots posted on transandrophobic trans women’s blogs complaining about us. If you would actually look through our tag or check out blogs you’d know the only oppressive and primary perpetrators of transandrophobia are perisex cis people; it just hurts more when it comes from other trans people.

We cannot talk about transandrophobia without mentioning trans women right now, we are simply not allowed it. Whenever we try, we are told wanting and using our own words to discuss our oppression means we inherently hate and want to silence trans women, that we are transmisogynist oppressors just trying to claim trans women oppress us. I would love for this not to be the case.

[die-tenebris]

don't wanna derail the post I saw this discussion on- it was all in the notes anyway, so it certainly isn't op's problem. I'm gonna say this with so much love:

Calling somebody a 'theyfab' is not punching up. If someone's being transmisogynistic, say that, or call them a bigot. Naming the tangible harm done to you will always be the most effective thing to do.

The cis people who created that term made it with the explicit intent to mock and insult people's identities. No matter what you mean when you say it, this is its origin and to most people, its only meaning. It describes nothing about the discrimination you face.

People afab are marginalized, especially if they're queer. You cannot "punch up" on a fellow oppressed group. I understand the specific vitriol that they inflict on you hurts.

You don't need a word to call somebody, you need and deserve adequate justice for the tangible harm done to you; and my heart aches that nobody queer- especially trans women- ever seems to receive that.

I'm aware I can't make anybody do anything, so I'm not gonna try to tell you not to use that word. I just want to say it can't ever address, undo, or heal any harm done to you. It can only redirect it.

[thatdiabolicalfeminist]

it's worse than that though cuz some of you make it really obvious that you think the bad part about terfs/radfems is the (lip service to) "feminism" part

like some of you do claim to be feminists but you think it's really important that any feminist discussion center men's perspectives and priorities and you're calling trans women terfs for explaining basic feminism 101 shit like "patriarchy is designed to benefit men at the expense of women" and you're constantly saying transmisogynistic shit about how trans women are perverts or that they're all trying to pressure people into being trans and you literally sound like terfs yourselves half the time except you're a little more honest about the fact that you think feminism is unfair to men

like i really don't think it's the transmisogyny some of you dislike 🤔

[amynable]

Maybe it's just a reflection of my own limited experiences and insecurities as a 2nd year transwoman but even the most kind and seemingly loving support of transwomen from cis women, especially cishet women, often feels like it actually starts and ends at "you don't deserve to be hated."

Yeah but I deserve to be invited into women's spaces? Do I deserve to be treated as an equal? Do I deserve to be loved even when I sound like a guy? Do you actually see me as a woman or do you see me as some outside-the-binary intersection of gay man and vulnerable victim with she/her pronouns?

Am I actually accepted or am I a victim of oppression that you ideologically believe should be defended, but would otherwise prefer not to think too much about? And does your support only last so long as I maintain a distinctly lower place in the social hierarchy than you, always monitoring my words and behavior so I don't misstep on the grounds of womanhood that I've only been given tentative, honorary permission to walk on?

It feels like you're saying "transwomen are women" while internally cataloging us in a group that's not man but distinctly not woman either, and that category is below men AND women in the patriarchal mindset that you never dismantled, just reorganized.

[bottomgrowthmindset]

Btw the Transmasc and overall tme reactionary hatred of transfems partially stems from a deep misunderstanding of transfem sisterhood as a means of survival. Theres definitely envy of a tight knit unconditionally loving community of trans women but theres a lack of understanding that that harm perpetuated against transfems is what results in this close community and it’s not so much aspirational (though the love between transfems is beautiful and community building itself should be something we all aspire to) as it is a girls only safety netting and I think we should all sit with that a bit

[cathodic-clairvoyant]

Oh hi there transfem discussing her experience in the trans community i just had a quick question about your post

What does tme mean?

Oh okay i see i understand, thank you.

What does transmisogyny mean?

Ah I see, I get it.

What's a trans woman?

Oof scary. One last question.

What's a woman?

Thank you for being my own personal google (not like you had anything better to do right?) and derailing the point of your post for my own personal education. I will now add nothing of value to this post in return. Bye bye!

[catboldbot]

I think I finally realized what I think people are fucking up in how they're talking about intracommunity abuse: people are thinking about "privilege" as if it was numeric.

It gets talked about like you can objectively deduce someone's identity and where it lies on some scale of privilege (or a hyperplane if you prefer!), and chart the exact distance between them and someone else as "relative privilege". The power one person has over someone else.

I don't think that this is how it works. I don't think that "capability to abuse" is found as a vector from abuser to victim.

Often I think we would probably do better to see this not as one person (or type of person) projecting their power over another, but as someone wielding the power society (or more often specifically a community) permits anyone to wield over that type of person. Different communities and different contexts have different acceptable targets. Plenty will allow one acceptable target to wield power over another.

[apelcini]

shoutout to amab nonbinary people who are on hrt to look more confusing they’re some of our strongest soldiers. it’s completely fair for binary trans people to not like how they look in the middle of their transition, but it’s really telling who even we as other lgbt people find acceptable when they stop in the middle. we have this concept of “my goal is to not look masculine or feminine it’s to look confusing” as these vaguely masculine androgynous afabs (it’s the transmisogyny)

[lesbiansanemi]

I should be getting paid to deal with this bullshit

[theygender]

Does anyone have any good book recommendations that talk about transmisogyny in a way that would be entry level to like. A 50 year old cis lesbian

[cistematicchaos]

Can you explain more about your post that you don't like transunity? I really don't understand what the person in the screenshot is trying to argue…they don't seem to make sense? I'm confused what the post is saying...what is serano-esque mean?

Sure! I don't mind that at all, though this will be a bit longer, if you don't mind. (And if any of this doesn't make sense, ask me to explain further, I really don't mind.)

Firstly, I will name OP in the tags if you wanna find the post yourself, no they/them pronouns though bc I don't think it uses those.

So, the reason you're confused is probably because the post itself doesn't make sense! It's got a bunch of progressive language smashed together to make the most wild-ass claim that is based on a complete misunderstanding of transmisogyny.

The post starts with the question of how we can discuss the violence of misgendering without discussing the violence that comes with being viewed as our agab, which is a good question! (ironically lol, i was thinking about that reading a Serano essay discussing misgendering the other day)

But then it degrades into this rant about how "Serano-esque" people "misunderstand" transunity and, apparently, transphobia overall (which somehow ties into the discussion of misgendering) but it's just kind of. complete nonsense tbh, i'd go over it in depth but it's just so much NONSENSE anon that i can't fr. It's just fucking nonsense.

Serano-esque is where the transmisogyny comes in. Julia Serano is the original person who named transmisogyny and defined it in length in numerous essays and books based on her personal experience with it. I've read some of her work and despite its shortcomings, I'd definitely recommend some of it! Its very enlightening and well-written.

By Serano-esque people, OP means people speaking up against transmisogyny and, in the case of the transunity groups in particular, people speaking up about the fact these groups generally blatantly oppose something else that Serano also talks about being important for trans liberation, which is transfeminism.

So, OP is just ranting about people who complain about transmisogyny and prioritize fighting it in their trans activitism, all mostly without naming transmisogyny at all, which is a wildass thing to do but somehow it managed. :/

[crimsaph]

frankly if ur 'activism' does not center women of color and specifically trans women of color I don't really wanna work w u

[truecorvid]

lord please forgive me i am getting into fights in tiktoks comments again

[cool-and-caustic]

Seeing other ppl afab purposely misconstruing “trans woman” and “TMA” makes me physically violent what is wrong with you guys