#transmisogyny-explained

[zignifier]

Wrt LRB sometimes I'm so baffled by what people bother to ask me because my charitable assumption will be an image in my mind of the results of a search query using keywords in that question and what failures may have occurred in the transfer of information and I'll start talking like "What did you search for this? When I used [keywords] the results seemed pretty self-explanatory." Or like idk. Baseline I'll assume they've read some Bullshit that comes up when u search something. There are multiple things in this world if you use the most self-evident english search queries for you will just get misinformation. So maybe then I'll start talking as to counter those points instead and they're sooo lost and I'm like ??? and they're like I didn't bother to look it up I didn't search for any texts on this subject. And I'm like. How the fuck can you expect me to have a conversation about this then? We have to like. Have a baseline of implicit assumptions of understanding to talk about this how do you not CARE about that???

[archersgoon]

ok i dont have it in me to rb this post because its longer than god, but re lumatere it is interesting. because charyn (at least upper classes -- note that he doesn't complain about fit when he's stealing from peasants lol) tends towards more fitted clothing than in lumatere fashion. so it makes sense that the jacket & trousers left for froi are too small, because he is like. noticeably larger than the average charynite lad.

my actual general thing with fashion as presented in the text is that it's fine. like it's literally fine. most stuff is pretty generic because it's not part of the like way she constructs things. like it's not the focus (i want more details wrt hats/caps, but that's neither here nor there) & on the occasion when she does detail stuff it generally mostly makes sense. like i dont actually know a whole lot about historical clothing i could just be wrong where she's unambiguously correct.

but what i think does me in isn't really unique to the clothes. like i've said this before but there's this sort of prevailing like modernity to the way masculinity in particular is constructed. so it's no hose & isaboe calling the haladyans (probably an ancient greece/rome expy) 'men in skirts'. so like. what's all that about why can't we get a little medieval with it for true. & you guys know how i feel about marchetta men lol (annoying!!!). so instead of being like ohh despite all the ways they're different and understand things differently there's still points of commonality between us and these fantasy characters (even re oppression like they can still do misogyny etc it makes sense) the actual commonality is that it's the same stupid bullshit you see like. everywhere everyday. like at the end of the day i think it's boring and it pisses me off something fierce

[truecorvid]

lord please forgive me i am getting into fights in tiktoks comments again

[gizdathemxel]

*gripping my hands so hard on a young trans persons shoulders that their bones are about to break*

do not log on to 4chan.com. do not get involved in passing olympics. you will always lose. do not put afab/amab* in your bio, that is cisgender society trying to know your “real” gender. you do not exist to please cisgender people. there is no ‘right’ way to be trans. learn your goddamn history, listen to your elders. listen to other disenfranchised groups. listen to intersex people and check yourself for intersexism. listen to trans poc and check yourself for racism. listen to disabled people and check yourself for ableism. be open to learning always. labels are meant to fit you, not the other way around. you are not weird or predatory for simply being attracted to others. you’re fine if you’re not a skinny white twink or a barbie doll. you’re fine if your body is ‘weird’. you’re fine if you don’t have heavy or any dysphoria. it’s okay if you actually don’t want to transition or anything like that. life is worth living at any stage, you deserve to be happy. I SWEAR THAT YOU ARE OKAY!!!!!

*ok editing this bc i think there are some major misunderstandings here and also ignorance on my part so lemme clear the air. when i wrote “don’t put tme/tma” in ur bio i did NOT mean to say that discussions around transmisogyny aren’t important or that tme/tma cannot be helpful terminology, and i’m super sorry that it came off that way. also editing bc someone pointed out to me that the original phrasing of this post is very misinforming, so to also clarify, tme/tma was a term invented by transfems to talk about transfeminine experiences which i will admit that i was unfamiliar with the history of tme/tma as a term and was introduced to it through some really bad online queer discourse. but it’s always been of my opinion that discussion around all forms of bigotry, including transmisogyny, are important and need to be had. i explained in a rb, which i’ll link when i have more time, that my issue was with the way the term is used as only identification/oppression olympics rather than genuine nuanced discussion about the ways that transphobia/transmisogyny/transandrophobia/etc function and interact with each other. i advised young trans people to not put tma/tme in their bios, bc i know that the wrong people (not just cis people, but transphobes and assholes who just want to get under your skin) would use any indication of your direction of transition to try and misgender you. or specifically in the case of tma/tme, tell you that your experiences/thoughts are not valid or reasonable bc you were tma or tma.

i realize how not originally clarifying that makes me look stupid (and a transmisogynist), so seriously, i’m sorry for that major mishap. tma/tme are not inherently bad words and you are 1000% allowed to use whatever terminology fits you and your experiences best. so as another word of advice: please do not let some rando on the internet tell you how you should talk about your experiences

(also idgaf if you don’t “log on” to 4chan or that it’s “not a website”, the fact that any of you know that is shameful and upsetting)

[drdemonprince]

to the anon asking why trans women don't have male privilege.

well. a lot of you are gonna be shocked to hear this one, but it's incredibly clear why not if you listen to trans women's experiences.

trans women have written at length about being sexually victimized, othered, subjected to violence for gender non-conformity, internalizing transmisogynistic cultural norms, being socially excluded and penalized for their failure to be adequate "cis men" and much more. if you are a person who has experienced misogyny but are not a trans woman you really have got to spend a lot of time reading transfeminist writing about this stuff, because your understanding of gender based oppression will always be woefully incomplete if you don't know what a lot of trans women go through and trust them as a reputable source.

here are some texts that i recommend just off the dome

Here's a thread from Grace Lavery about how even before she came out as a trans woman, men perceived her as an acceptable target for sexual assault in much the same way they do women of all kinds.

Here's a book from Laura Kate Dale about how her Autism was never recognized when she was a child because she met all the hallmarks of "female Autism" as a young closet trans girl.

Here's Jules Gill-Peterson on what transmisogyny is, how it functions, and how it affects the entire course of trans women's lives.

Here's Julia Serano's foundational text that introduced the concept of transmisogyny which explains at length how transmisogyny is so baked into our culture that it influences everyone and harms trans women long before they come out.

There's also just, you know, the base logic that queer people still suffer from homophobia and transphobia as kids before they even *know* they are queer. That's not exactly controversial. In fact the very fact that presumed straightness and cisness is forced upon everyone to the extent that a person must "come out" as anything else is a clear demonstration that trans women suffer from transmisogyny at every point in their lives. Being told you are not permitted to be yourself, that people like you do not even exist, is a pretty core experience of oppression and mimics what a lot of other groups of oppressed women (for example, lesbians) go through.

I will also clarify that trans men often experience privileges related to transmasculinity before they even come out! People never quite treated me the way they treated cis women, I've written about that before, and while structurally trans men do experience misogyny, their positionality is different in all kinds of subtle ways.

[wolfertinger666]

i wish people understood the phenomenon of transphobic/transmisognistic abusers portraying trans women as this evil scary threat to nature and trans men as soft misguided "women" who need to be corrected and are victims of transgender ideology and how despite both rhetoric being rooted in transphobia, one is way more severe and still prevalent even among queer spaces.

i wish people didn't downplay how malicious transmisogyny is, not only is it a tool transphobes and terfs use to infiltrate our spaces, but it's a tool that can literally kill the girls in our community. socially isolate them and kill them. and it's disappointing seeing other trans people especially people like me downplay such things and the severity of it when I cannot think of a single transfem mutual of mine who hasn't dealt with this shit online. not one.

i feel like "we are faggots they're trying to kill us" is in the right direction towards general assimilist queer discourse but I hate how it's used to shut up trans women and racialized queers for explaining the layers of oppression within the community that is still displayed subconsciously or not.

[ocean-breeze-pier]

Wow there’s so much wrong I don’t even know where to start so let’s just fire off a few

1) transandrophobia is not a reactionary term. It was created for us to talk about specific issues that trans men and transmascs face because our issues are often overlooked/dismissed. There are specific issues faced by us that aren’t covered by a general term of transphobia, the same way transmisogny is for trans women and transfems to talk about their specific issues. Transmisogny and transandrophobia as terms can (and should) coexist

2) I’m so sick of people acting like t4t was just transfem 4 transfems. The attempt at gatekeeping it is so fucking odd and weird. It’s always been about trans 4 trans not specifically transfems. Stop trying to divide us

3) forcemasc as we know it was absolutely created by transmascs be fucking fr right now. People like this are the same people who make those posts shitting on forcemasc and acting like forcefem is superior as if being forcibly feminized isn’t traumatic for trans men in a similar way that being forcibly masculinized is traumatic for transfems. I don’t know to explain to you that your experience of gender is not universal. Just bc you don’t think forcefem could be traumatic it’s like no shit you’re transfem and forcefem makes you feel good. So why wouldn’t it be the same way for transmascs? You need to stop acting like masculinity is inherently oppressive and no one could ever find joy in being masculinized

So much of this post is giving “theyfab was created to critique transmisogyny” when in reality it’s 4chan bullshit against anyone deemed too feminine compared to their agab. Y’all need to stop trying to rewrite history just so you can complain about the evil transmascs stealing things

Y’all just don’t want trans guys to have shit. That’s really what it is. At the end of the day, trans culture as a whole is often shared. Sometimes things like the Blahaj that may start being used by transfems may have some trans guys who are into it as well. It also goes the other way? Oh wait all trans guy culture is seen as is whiny dyed hair skinny twinks who wear flower crowns and listen to cave town and we’re all cringe!!! When trans guys try to have their own culture it’s made fun of truly there’s no winning

Also this might be mean idgaf at this point but in specific reference to blahaj good grief it’s a stuffed animal no specific group of trans people has a monopoly on it😭like we can’t be serious right now

Trying to spin every facet of transmasc culture as a transfem spinoff is once again erasing us and our history.

[patricia-taxxon]

after being explained the concept over and over again in great detail in my askbox, i have reached the conclusion that transandrophobia is

things that trans women also experience

things that cis women also experience

repackaged misandry theory from 2014

being accused of transmisogyny, sometimes

one of them put forth *corrective rape* to me as a transmasc only oppression, this is james somerton level intersectionality allergy.