#vivziepop criticism

[moistrodent]

Hi. I feel like as a colour blind person with poor eyesight I should talk about how inaccessible Hazbin Hotel and Helluva boss are.

THIS is how Hazbin Hotel looks to me (give or take, once again COLOUR BLIND). This is bad. This is REALLY bad. When your series is really hard to watch for people with VERY COMMON DISORDERS, you need to work on designing characters. Please. Really, this is horrible! It’s not even that hard, just change the colours up a bit.

[flower-boi16]

Holy shit the amount of hb fans saying brandon calling via a slut and an obstacle to the main toxic uwu couple as a harmless joke rubs to the wrong way. If this means to be a joke then it has to be the worst one I've ever heard. Seeing my cousins growing up in a dysfunction family which their parents divorced just makes me can't take this as any form of humour. They need to seperate brandon's skit from this show. The show wants to take via's problem seriously so to suddenly make this joke in favor for shippers is awful.

Speaking as someone who has divorced parents, seeing a teenage girl suffering from divorce and neglect from her father be called a "slut" and "cockblocking" because she DARED get mad at her POS father is kind of insulting. I don't CARE if It's a "joke", it's not funny.

Octavia has every right to be angry at Stolas for neglecting her in favor of his fuck-buddy, she's not "cockblocking". Stolas directly hurt Octavia yet SHE'S the one people are getting angry at??? WTF???

Again, as someone who suffered through divorce, this isn't funny, it's insulting and simply shows how the writers (and the fans) demonize all three of the people most hurt by Stolas' actions. Stella? She was just an abusive bitch to begin with. Blitz? Pffft, he only hates Stolas for being a prince. OCTAVIA? She should "cut her dad some slack" cuz he's "trying his best" and is just a cockblocking slut.

It's genuinely gross and in Octavia's case downright disgusting. These people refuse to actually look at things from these characters' perspectives and instead treat them as the spawn of literal satan cuz god forbid Stolas be held accountable for ANYTHING in this show and god forbid that ANYONE calls him out for his shit. For Stella, it's at least justified since she...isn't a good person. The other two though?

Ya, no. Blitz deserves a better boyfriend and Octavia deserves a better father. And I'm SICK of people pretending otherwise.

[bloody-teared-angel]

Little bit of info from what I'll be basing Alastor off

[autumnteawithfriends]

I despise CherriSnake and here’s why

Before we begin, something I want to clarify is that I don’t care if you ship or don’t ship CherriSnake. You do you, I’m not here to stop you and neither is this post. I just personally wanted to make a post on why I absolutely hate this ship.

Also, props to @cagneyblooms for helping me come up with some of the points.

REASON#1 - They don’t really work as partners for me

This is more of a personal reason to me, but CherriSnake is one of those ships to me where it feels like they absolutely can’t work out as a couple. Since the pilot is somewhat treated as canon in the show, they make no sense considering the fact that Pentious and Cherri absolutely despised eachother in the pilot. Both of them were locked in a turf war against one another and that hatred was mutual. Yet the show does a complete 180 from that and makes Pentious have this crush on Cherri out of nowhere, likely because Vivziepop wanted a straight HH ship and instead of deciding to just make a different character to pair Pentious/Cherri with or just make a entirely new ship. She just looked at the fandom, saw that CherriSnake was somewhat popular, and decided to make it canon last minute. CherriSnake during 2019-2023 just felt like a joke ship to me or something shippers who ship every character together would make. I mean, CherriSnake practically falls into a TON of popular tropes (Enemies/Rivals to Lovers, Angel x Demon, Girlboss x Goofball, probably way more) I’m not dissing this tropes, I even do these tropes myself with OC x Canon pairings I make. It’s just that CherriSnake felt rushed and last minute.

REASON#2 - They lack chemistry and actual interaction

To be fair, I partially put the blame on both Amazon Prime and Vivziepop for this. Amazon Prime because they only gave HH 8 episodes to really show its story, but I also blame Vivziepop for this. Because not only did she waste whatever time she had with those 8 episodes by showing us useless filler with the Vees and The Overlords instead of actually delving into the main sinners and why they’re in Hell. But she also crammed WAY too much content into 8 episodes instead of giving HH proper pacing.

But onto CherriSnake chemistry, Cherri and Pentious’s regular interactions pretty much prove to me that Vivziepop understands nothing about how actual relationships work and just make their dynamic one sided on Pentious’s part. Let’s be honest, Cherri does not reciprocate Pentious in the slightest considering the stuff she does to him. The shitty two dicks joke aside, not only was the kiss between her and Pentious forced because it was only a “heat of the moment” deal, but she also did this.

(Source: TV Tropes under Sir Pentious’s page)

I get that Cherri isn’t exactly a nicest sinner demon in Hazbin, but this combined with the two dicks joke and the kiss she and Pentious share makes her seem incredibly shallow (which she is considering how rushed this ship is in general) If Hazbin Hotel was like Bojack Horseman like some people claim it is, either these would happen.

A. Cherri realizes she was shallow for only wanting Pentious for his two dicks and never really considered how he felt, either leading Cherri and Pentious staying friends or Cherri breaking it off with him.

B. Pentious calls out Cherri for being shallow, thus giving both him and Cherri some development.

C. Cherri realizes that she only liked the kiss because it was less of them being in love and more of a heat of the moment adrenaline rush.

Or literally anything else. Cherri and Pentious never have a genuine interaction that either doesn’t make Cherri seem incredibly shallow or isn’t comedic.

As for the final reason, it may be a bit of a stretch, but I still think it counts.

REASON#3 - It’s borderline pedophillia

Again, props to @cagneyblooms for making me realize this point. Also, because pedophillia is very much a serious topic + I don’t want to throw the term around. I’ll be providing more evidence than the other two.

I’m not kidding, CherriSnake (atleast to me) becomes borderline pedophillic once you think about the lore Vivziepop spoon feeds us through her livestreams instead of diving deep into it. According to Vivziepop, Sir Pentious was in his mid 40s (best speculated to be 45) when he died while Cherri died in her early 20s, already raising a few eyebrows.

Yeah, this is already gross enough, but something that makes the age gap worse is the difference timeframe in which these two died in. Sir Pentious was confirmed to have died in 1888 London and Cherri Bomb died somewhere in the 80s. So not only was Pentious A GROWN ASS MAN WHO ALREADY HAD LIVED AND DIED BEFORE CHERRI WAS BORN, CHERRI WAS LIKELY BARELY A ADULT SINCE SHE WAS EITHER IN HER EARLY 20s AT BEST OR BARELY IN HER 20s AT WORST! This is also mentioning that Sir Pentious is also technically older than Cherri in Hell because depending on what exact year Cherri died in, Sir Pentious had either already spent nearly 100 years in Hell or he actually spent 100 years exactly in Hell when Cherri died. The only thing that really softens blow is that Pentious got a crush on her when they were both in Hell, meaning Cherri was technically still in her 20s in a way.

To conclude this, I hate CherriSnake. It’s one of the few Canon ships I actually despise since I either don’t care for Canon ships or I actually ship Canon couples as well. Even if Vivziepop wasn’t a terrible person, she’s still a really fucking awful writer who can’t stick to anything at all and is more concerned about her shitty Stoltliz soap opera rather than writing a good story. Writers like Vivziepop are the reason why research makes a good story.

[theoddest1]

Crazy how fast the progressive facade disappears from hazbin fans when they can go anon

Especially when it's a black person speaking

like "shaniqua"??? Is this 2009???? if they're gonna be racist the least they can do is be creative but since Viv is their muse that's never gonna happen

Lmao it's crazy! They be the first to say "hey be understanding of others' interests and feelings" but when someone does something that doesn't and shouldn't effect them at all but affectstheir fave ships, suddenly that rule drops from the face of the earth💀

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Charlie should call her Hotel the Happy Hotel and everyone else call it Hazbin Hotel. Charlie has no reason to call it that and should fight about Alastor about it. Just makes Charlie weak she just let Alastor pick the name and Charlie using the name that mock her dream.

This

[uniquepeanutcreatorfire]

Newest HB Short

This short had some cute and fun moments with Millie and Sallie Mae. I liked the outfit Sallie wore throughout most of it and I'm glad she got some depth. While I'm glad these characters got some more screentime, I can't help but still feel disappointed as the short doesn't give us much insight to Millie as a main character.

In the short, Sallie expressed how Millie doesn't visit home that often and thinks Millie may be ashamed to have come from Wrath. My thing is that this doesn't tie into information already established about Millie.

You would think her parents would've made similar remarks, like Sallie, about her not visiting home in the Harvest Moon episode.

Sallie also said she was left in charge of the family when Millie left but we never seen Millie have any meaningful interactions with her brothers to get a sense of what their dynamic is like.

We also don't learn anything about why Millie left Wrath in the first place. Millie just only apologized to Sallie and said she'll try to visit more.

Did she leave because she met Chaz and maybe he convinced her to move to Pride?

Did she leave because of her validation issues? Like she didn't feel appreciated by her family enough (and for some reason she didn't tell her sister this).

Small Nitpicks

Sallie took a bus from Wrath to Pride ring. What happened to the elevator as the means to travel to different rings?

Sallie made no mention of Looloo Land. You know, the place where Millie said she and her family used to go in the past. Honestly, Sallie gave off the vibes that she hasn't been anywhere else besides Wrath.

The sibling rivalry Viv mentioned in her Millie thread doesn't appear true at all. Sure, they play fight roughly and compete when playing games but that seems more of a result of them being born and raised in Wrath. If they were really sibling rivals, I don't think they would have a close bond as they do now.

Another thing about Viv's Millie thread; she listed off things about Millie, but she never mentioned anything about her validation issues or wanting to feel important. Viv has no problem explaining her characters outside the shows, like she did with Alastor. This convinced me that she was more likely making stuff up about Millie at the time.

Conclusion

This was a fun and enjoyable short. However, I'm not convinced the writers have a clear idea or direction for Millie's character that's coherent. It seems they add stuff along the way. I understand Morgana wrote this short alone, but it doesn't seem like she was given enough information about Mille to make sure things were consistent. I guess we'll see what happen in the future.

[demiaroacejolynekujo]

Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, but if it was actually good:

[skyx-the-witch]

Vivziepop male character: *is supposed to be hot and attractive. Canonically everyone wants to fuck him, he is flirty, confident and makes everyone fall in love with him as soon as he appear. Hes got the best voice actor to make the most masculine and attractive voice to match his supposed sexiness. Everyone in the fandom talks about how he makes them wet their panties*

The fucking character design:

[thats-ill-eagle]

You know Viv fucked up, when even her hardcore fans are starting to realize how messed up the leak and the context surrounding it is.

[flower-boi16]

The Millie Problem

The first Helluva Boss short came out and...it was mid. It's cute and harmless, sure, but it's also nothing special or anything that great. The short once again tries and fails to give Millie any real depth and it made me realize the biggest flaw with Millie as a character...

....the writers don't know how to give her depth. I've talked this before but now it seems like a fairly common thing for Millie as a character that it's time to make a post about this. The writers clearly want to give Millie depth but like I said the problem is that they don't seem to know HOW, and here I'm going to explain why the writers' attempts at giving Millie depth simply don't work.

In Season 1 Millie kinda just...existed. She was there. She had little personality or character depth beyond being Moxxie's wife, she was completely one-dimensional as a character.

Season 2 would come and try to give her depth with Unhappy Campers, and this is where the problem begins to arise. Instead of actually focusing on Millie as a character, Unhappy Campers wasted it's runtime on focusing on Moxxie being jealous and decided to just. Randomly give Millie validation issues completely out of nowhere.

I've spoken before about this doesn't work, so I'll just explain it quick; it comes out of nowhere. Millie has never shown to want validation from others, there was no foreshadowing or build-up to this, thus it feels forced and rushed. It's just a random character flaw the writers pulled out their ass in a rushed and failed attempt at giving Millie depth.

But it doesn't give her depth because it came out of nowhere. This flaw is also never explored upoun; the show never explores this insecurity or why Millie even has it. Feels tacked on to her.

It is, essentially, a rushed attempt at giving her depth. This is a conflict that comes completely out of nowhere and is heavily underdeveloped. It does little for Millie as a character and fails to give her depth.

The new short is the second instance of this; once again we have a conflict where Sally is upset that Millie moved away and they reconcile in the end. This conflict is at least better than the other two of three times is happened, however, it still has the same problems; it doesn't really do that much for Millie as a character. It comes out of nowhere and is explored very little.

It's not enough to develop Millie as a character, it simply feels like the bare minimum. Once again; it's a conflict that comes out of nowhere, is explored very little, and gives little depth to Millie as a character. It once again, feels tacked on.

Now we're going to go into leak territory here as a future episode called GhostFuckers shows the third instance of the writers attempting to give Millie depth. How are they going to do it this time?

By making Millie suicidal of course! ....wait I'm sorry what???? Like with Unhappy Campers I've spoken before about why this doesn't work but of the three instances, this is easily the worst one. Why is Millie being suicidal here??? WHY have her be suicidal in the first place??? What's the point?????

This adds nothing to Millie as a character and once again feels forced and tacked on. Like the other two instances, it comes completely out of nowhere. Plus it just flat out makes no sense! Why does Millie apparently hate herself for "being a killing machine" when that is LITERALLY THE THING HER HUSBAND LOVES ABOUT HER AND WHEN THAT'S THE THING THAT MAKES HER ONE OF THE BEST MEMBERS OF THE GROUP???? WHY DOES SHE HATE HERSELF??? AND WHY IS SHE SUDDENELY SUICIDAL???? WHY DOES SHE SUDDENLY FEEL LIKE A BURDEN TO HER HUSBAND????? Once again, it's a forced attempt at giving Millie depth and feels tacked on.

It comes out of nowhere & is extremely forced. Granted, the episode hasn't come out yet, however judging by the leaks it seems like the episode will be the third instance of the writers randomly introducing conflicts out of nowhere in order to give Millie depth.

It's clear that the writers want to flesh out Millie as a character, but the problem is that they don't seem to know how. They constantly try introducing random conflicts for Millie to try and give her character depth, but they fail because every time the writers try to give Millie depth, it always comes out of nowhere. They always feel rushed, tacked on, and they just don't add anything to her as a character. It just feels like the bare minimum.

I want to like Millie, I really do, but it seems like the writers just don't know what to do with her anymore.

[gartenofbanny]

Vivziepop made Saint Peter, a Middle Eastern Jewish fisherman, into a white dude with blonde hair and blue eyes. You can't make this up, bro

[madnessandentropy]

Something I've noticed about Viv while spending time in the critical side of the fandom is that Viv tends to take designs, ideas and writing without giving credit. (E.g many people didn't know she didn't write much of the HB pilot)

And I've realised this extends to her animations of fan music as well.

Take a look at the title and description for fan song Liquid Gold by Paranoid DJ for Lackadaisy

Not only is the Paranoid DJ's name in the title, it's the first words. You're directly told who's responsible for this lovely piece of music so you can search them up if you want, and the description tells you to follow them and where to find them.

For Hazbin Hotel's most famous and beloved song, Addict, by Silva Hound though:

A mention of Silvahound is nowhere to be found in the title. It is in the description and video, but so many people have no idea Addict is a fan song because the title and the way it's presented makes it feel like it was officially made by Spindlehorse or someone else.

Look My Way by Paranoid DJ, who as you know also made Liquid Gold, is a fan song for Helluva Boss with no mention of the true creator at ALL

There's nothing. He isn't in the title or the description. He is in the video, but he's briefly listed at the very end of the credits where most people just click off and don't watch. Almost no credit is given and multiple people (including myself until recently) have no idea this is a fan song. There's just no credit, so everyone assumes this, like Addict, was made by Spindlehorse or someone else.

What makes this even worse is, it's a general agreement that Addict is the best Hazbin song, better than the ones in the pilot and Look My Way is an excellent Helluva song next to House of Asmodeus (which is one of the only good songs from HB imo).

So Viv is refusing to properly credit the artists, the FAN artists that took their passion for her shows to create music for something they loved, that helped raise Hazbin Hotel in popularity and tug at the feelings of Helluva Boss fans respectively.

This is gross. Credit your artists

[littledemon55]

Justice for these characters! ✊

Justice for Sir Pentious, he deserved to be more than a funny gang r@pe joke and comedic death.

Justice for Vaggie, she deserves a name that isn’t tied to the female genitalia and should be more than an angry latino stereotype.

Justice for Millie, she deserves more character outside of being Moxxie's wife.

Justice for Stella, she was robbed of any depth she had to make Stolas seem innocent.

Justice for Blitz, he should cut contact with Stolas and be in a healthy relationship instead.

Justice for Octavia, she deserves an actual good father figure.

[theoddest1]

liking a problematic ship isn’t the issue, liking fanart of a prop ship isn’t the issue. The issue is that they failed at writing one. Angel just straight up hates Val, but we’re being led to believe he loved him at some point and from how Val is and acts it’s like “how?” Val is a nothing burger he’s not charming, he’s not manipulative, he’s not smart, or funny and im sorry to the VA but the performance is really bad. Val is just another stupid villain “a Karen of the group” except they made him into a rapist that the creator doesn’t want to acknowledge and dodges so hard. Not even vox likes dealing with him but again we’re lead to believe theres some type of affection between them aside from just being fuck buddies for fan girls to slobber over. You had your chance at writing toxic yaoi but you shot yourself in the foot by speed running your show to get the big unearned moments and dwelling on SA and trying to get a pop hit single on Spotify instead of writing about abusive relationships.

☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

I rarely lurk around the anti vivziepop tag.

Only now did I learn about the whole thing with Brandon and the things he said about Via. Maybe I'm prissy but it feels extremely fucked for a grown up to talk that way about a minor. Even if said minor is fictional it's still kind of really fucked.

Disliking a character is one thing but that was actually kind of uncomfortable to hear. Like chill, she's just a drawing. Why are you acting like this is personal?

Because Vivizepop and her crew aren't normal.