#helluva boss criticism

[doodler16]

Already saw Viv stans saying HB is “still going to be indie”.

Newsflash, once something goes to a big corporate like Disney or Amazon, it is no longer indie. The whole definition of indie means not belonging or affiliated with a major film company. It’s independent and not part of a large corporation. Are people just ignoring what indie is anymore?

Helluva Boss lost their indie privileges a while ago once critics and antis found out Vivziepop was outsourcing 😂.

[officeobject]

Also it bothers then people who LIKE them as being birds (and see their depictions as different from, like, the Stolas everyone talks about), because then they can't even stick to it, you don't know who's what, EVERYONE is exclusively thin for some reason, there's themes but not a full commitment, nor are the themes cohesive (stars for stolass, bridal for Stella, snow/ice for Stella's brother - I don't know) - sometimes the birds look creepy or goofy, Stolass kinda changed style to more feminine even though he had an established style, do nothing of use with the upper eyes, don't even HINT at what the others as humans look like, and lastly, THEY'RE NOT EVEN ALL BIRDS! AND YOU WON'T EVEN KNOW THAT UNTIL THE MASTERMIND EPISODE! I GOT SO FECKING MAD!

"The Ars Goetia shouldn't all be birds. It's a bit of a nitpick but it annoys me so much that the Ars Goetia are all Birds when they're actually a very diverse group of demons design wise in actual scriptures. Like all it takes is a five minute google search to see how diferent the Ars Goetia demons actually are. I find it lazy to make them all birds ngl."

Submitted by anonymous

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Here's an edit I made of the pride artwork for Helluva Boss with some of my headcannons.

The original:

The changes I made:

Verosika (Pansexual -> Pansexual, Intersex)

Vassago (Gay -> Gay, Aromantic)

Millie (Straight -> Straight, Asexual)

Moxxie (Bisexual -> Bisexual, Genderqueer)

Ozzie (Pansexual -> Pansexual, Polyamorous, Genderqueer)

Fizz (Gay -> Genderfluid, Queer)

Mammon (Asexual -> Demisexual)

Barbie Wire (Pansexual -> Omnisexual)

Octavia (Asexual -> Non-binary, Lesbian)

Stolas (no change, added BDSM pride flag)

Loona (no change, added Sapphic pride flag)

Tex (Heterosexual, Trans)

Striker (Aromantic, Asexual)

Stella (Bisexual)

Also in the background, added a Polysexual and Lesbian flag.

I removed Chaz, cause I don't get why he has to be everywhere, when he is neither likeable nor important at all. Wanted Stella there instead.

Also, these are just headcannons. I am not implying that these sexualities are better than the ones before, or that they would make the show better. I did pay attention to add some more diversity to these identities though, as I have talked about the lack thereof in my previous post.

[critifan-666]

People don't hate Catra & Stolas because they're lgbt.

People hate Catra, because the narrative is saying "abuse is ok. Abuse is love. A harmful person who does nothing but harm gets to come out on top and find happiness anyway. She doesn't deserve it. She didn't earn it. But she still gets it! Isn't she good and redeemed now?"

People hate Stolas, because the narrative is saying "abuse is ok. Actually, he never did any of it; he thinks it's love. We think it is, too. And he just, well, gets to have it! Isn't our abuser cute little guy so cute and precious? Oh also, he's redeemed now."

One thing in common: A story changing gears to completely revolve around a villain who "isn't really that bad", or just wanted happiness. Their sad backstory becomes the excuse, and an abused love interest becomes the justification. Which points to something even worse. The ignorance, and possibly even the values, the writer themself holds.

If you're trying to rationalize and turn abuse into something totally positive in fiction, who's to say you don't practice those exact values in your real life? Who's to say this isn't how you actually view queer love and abusers who just happen to be queer? It just gets excused because they had a sad life and want a boyfriend?

To me, all either character says is, "Abuse can't happen to queer people. And if it does, no it doesn't. Now ignore the depictions of a real life abuser and ship the gay ship already." It's the injustice, the betrayal of the viewer's trust, and a lie so many have been convinced is true. It's the depictions of real life abusers we've all run into before.

Catra and Stolas could've been the greatest characters ever, if the writers didn't lie to themselves about who they've written and the very real people they are depicting. Forget the fact that both have nonsense, loveless, chemistryless relationships that only get rooted for out of being LGBT. Sorry but sprinkling on a little gayness won't cover up the fact that they abuse their own partners & then cry about it (when their partners are ever granted the agency to retaliate).

The better version of both stories would be if the writers weren't strangely fixated on making the villain the suddenly flawless, precious main character. If it stuck to it's themes, if it had any sort of message to say other than "queer love".

I mean, who knew abuser x victim was just that revolutionary? All you gotta do is gay-ify it, and now it's basically the greatest cutest relationship ever! Forget that Stolas coerced Blitz then blamed him for not loving him back (and consequently the narrative), forget that Catra hated Adora so much that she'd smile seeing her "girlfriend" dead, forget that both of them should've been killed off like any ol' Disney villain, becaaaaauuuse Gay Saves The Day!

It might be fiction... but it is just so weird, so fascinating, and such a striking pattern to see in modern writing such as this. The need to redeem everyone, to prioritize making real-life abusers the good guy... Many stories push forward some main idea, theme, or message, and fiction clearly impacts reality. Is Helluva Boss, or SPOP, trying to say something good here?

That's all I can wonder.

[golden-sandwing]

This video is EXTREMELY good, it shows what the relationship between these two is really like, Stolas' obsession, appearing to be "innocent" but in reality inside he is someone bad, he had a life and ruined it with his extreme obsession to the point of hurting the one he "loved"

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Cookie Run's Dark Cacao Cookie Is A Better Example Of A Flawed, But Well-Meaning Father

Yeah, I know Cookie Run is one of those franchises that is slept on but you really should check out Cookie Run Kingdom because it really has mature storytelling for something supposed to be aimed at kids and whose themes are around cookies. But in my opinion, one examples of it's mature storytelling is the relationship between Dark Cacao Cookie and his son Dark Choco Cookie. Basically they have such a strained relationship that Dark Choco went to work for a villainess named Dark Enchantress Cookie. One of the biggest things is that Dark Cacao has to realize that his strict parenting caused his child to go on a dark path because his father didn't give him open love. Things haven't fully recovered but it's making its way. But it shows that a kid's game actually better understands how it's an adult's responsibility actually to be one.

A parent is supposed to own up to their mistakes when it's the cause of their child's estrangement with them. That is something Helluva Boss refuses to do with Stolas because of its creator's pet status. They try so hard to woobify him that it glosses over the fact that he destroyed any good will he had with his daughter in pursuit of his own gratification. This contrasts with how Dark Cacao at first sacrificed so much of an openly loving relationship with his son so he could better his kingdom. However, in the end the actual mature parent grew to see he was wrong and tried to do right by their child. However, Stolas still sees himself as the victim and focuses more on self-pitying himself rather than do whatever he did to recover with the child he set aside for his lover.

[pompompoofy]

[puppiiteeth]

why are people freaking out over a fan animation of a fucking adult show. it was a interesting plot device that the animator wanted to interpret.

also an odd thing i notice was that this animator also animated blitz being trampled yet it didn’t get as much attention or critique as w the stolas one. why is it different w the fucking bird.

grow up.

[toestychonk]

A huge thing I wanted to talk about for a while was that y'all prioritize the wrong shit to get mad about.

Like with the alleged Viv's S.A. fetish thing, you are allowed to get the ick from it. Hell, I get the ick from many things, but I try not to let it invade my mind.

If it's entirely legal, there's not really much you can realistically do so why waste your time and energy? Like, for your own mental benefit, it would be better to go distract yourself or even go get therapy if it's that traumatizing.

Like bruh, getting angry over stuff like dumb shit like the excessive swearing/sex jokes, Viv's political standing, her spending habits (even if it did lead to Helluva's downfall), or something as subjective as the art style. Really?

I've made it clear that, imo, what matters is Viv's behavior, her compliance with nasty behavior in her fandom/from her peers, the fandom's inclusion of children/teenagers, and especially the messages she thinks she's writing versus what she's actually writing.

One thing in particular that bothers me about Viv criticism is the playbills. I'm pretty sure she isn't fucking scamming her fans as she doesn't own the fucking rights to Hazbin so she wouldn't be the one to make the decision to withhold merch. Get mad at whoever's in charge of merchandising, not Vivzie. Her showing it off before it was released to the public, now that was an asshole move, i'll give ya that. But just randomly accusing Viv of wrongdoing just because she is the creator is giving Lily Orchard blaming Rebecca Sugar vibes and i'm not here for it.

I do get dunking on Viv/her shows for fun or frustration, but some people just get so damn emotionally invested in this woman's life. Wanting her to lose her livelihood or even her life and getting actually distraught when she wins an award or more seasons are announced.

Once again and say it with me: Vivienne Medrano existing is not the end of the damn world.

There's more to life outside Vivziepop, some of yall gotta be reminded of that cuz fucking hell.

[lucifertheanalyzer]

nailed the hammer on the head with the theory

Helluva was merely the appetizer while people waited for the meal they paid for came in

Because I am always right haha. /j

Now Helluva Flop is going to be on Prime to make up for drop in views and to get new casual Hazbin viewers to suffer with even more bad writing like we did. /lhj

[doodler16]

yeah I called it, I knew they’re gonna sell the rights to prime. Indie my ass

🤣

[sprinkleonthatcriticism]

Unpopular opinion as a stolas hater we must be careful when we defended Stella

Yes stolas is pos and very bad father, i seen some post commenting about how Stella Stans acting like Stella didn't do anything wrong. Not gonna lie i was very defensive and decided not to interact with them. However i do think about it more then i watch muffinezo tiktok and then seeing other post from teethcable, helluvabossrewrite, and todomemolesta18 . Stolas is abuse victim even though Stella come across as caricature. Stella let's not forget she is abusive toward stolas and the imp butler, she is also classcist.

We should recognized that stolas is both victim and abuser

.

[technicallydelightfulpenguin]

Is me when Vivziepoop stans tell me to not criticizes her and her shows.

Im a critic and I agree you provoked Viv. Critiquing is different from using your personal experiences to hate something with, and I agree Stolas sucks, but what you started doing is inappropriate. Viv is also a victim. She was forcefully kissed by someone. I am also a victim. But you need to know not every victim is your vision of your perfect victim portrayal.

I responded a bit snappily due to her tone and being told to fuck off; our conversation became less heated the moment her tone got kinder. I told her I appreciated her for that, while still fundamentally disagreeing with her portrayal of the topic. I apologize for any rash or cruel things said in haste, but I was (and still am) frustrated with her constant dismissal of victims.

While assault is terrible regardless of its extremities, being forcefully kissed is not on the same level as being coerced into a sexual relationship. Not all victims/survivors have the same experiences and acknowledging that does not rob Vivzie of her victimhood. The truth of the matter is, the woman has never been financially pressured into having sex with someone, and she comes from a rich, privileged background. She does not have the experience of being so poor that she is forced into selling her body to survive.

There is no such thing as a 'perfect victim,' but Stolas is never acknowledged as a rapist or even coercive by the narrative. Instead, the writing expects you to see poor manipulation and rich class coercion as the same crime when it isn't. Infact, the writing tries to push that Blitz could've said no at any time, when this is fundamentally untrue. It is because of Vivzie's privilege that we're meant to perceive it this way... when anyone who has been in that situation or has been oppressed in even a remotely similar way can see the flaws with this narrative. Stolas is a victim of the monarchy, but he has never been a victim of Blitz. This is where the issue lies: assault can happen to anyone, but privilege is exclusive.

[theoddest1]

Lmaoooo

Edit:

Samantha is a Story Artist, Animator, and Animation BFA who works for Viv on both HH and HB.

2nd Edit: Some of y'all need to chill in the comments with certain things you say. It ain't finna make any point come across decently with how you spread some info. I get being mad at some of the reactions, don't get me wrong, but bring it back down slow plz.

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

I just had the displeasure of seeing this!😀

Wow! A slave owner treating a minority like a dog! Thats so wholesome it makes me want to walk into oncoming traffic!

The fandom reaches a new low of a lack of self-awareness.