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hadesknockedupintheunderworld · 3 months

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"Perception" a Nine Essay

I started writing this back in January to take a break from brainrotting about Netflix posting EP1 of Season 3 to discuss something I had been thinking about again (ever since reviewing the end of season 2 for the umpteenth time).

I'd like to talk about the differences in how characters in Sonic Prime see Nine versus how he actually is. I know this seems like a simple topic, but I think we all do well with a reminder of just how much the characters in the show know with their limited povs (as we the audience can view everything).

I'll be going pretty much character by character (grouping some together to discuss their povs at once), and ending with Sonic and Shadow.

(Note: At the time I wrote most of this, I had planned to have it done before S3 dropped, as I felt that the messages of this essay would be good to put out there before we all inevitably saw Nine as the season antagonist. To keep up with my original intentions, this essay will only go up to what we the audience knew as of S2)

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So let's start with Rebel Rouge and Renegade Knucks. They gather their first impressions of Nine as they witness Sonic and Nine's capture at the hands of the council, although they don't properly meet Nine until they enter the Chaos Council's base.

"Are you sure we were 'best friends'?"

"Blue streak has a friend?"

"Didn't look friendly. But whoever he is, he's involved now."

They haven't yet watched the video a resistance member took of Sonic and Nine's fight, and when they do, we only know for sure that they'll watch clips of Sonic talking about Green Hill. This means that (especially since there are no references during their meeting with Nine that they saw him fight Sonic), them listening in as Nine and Sonic are abducted is baseline their knowledge of Nine before meeting him.

They consider Nine a possible friend of Sonic's as they listen in, but it’s Rebel who mentions that Nine doesn't sound very friendly. This is a fair assessment, given the tone of Nine's voice and Nine's questioning if he and Sonic even were really friends. It's enough to be suspicious of someone's character, especially in a city like this, where choosing the wrong ally in your resistance could likely get you captured, or worse. It's also worth mentioning that first impressions matter with guys like Renegade who (like Knuckles) tend to make judgements of character based on first impressions and gut feelings. He trusts Rebel quite a lot as well, even listening to her judgement when it opposes his own, so it’s not impossible that her initial judgement of Nine as unfriendly starts to inform his assumptions as to Nine's character.

But I digress. If you believe they didn't watch the full video of the Nine/Sonic fight, that small moment is enough for one or both to be suspicious of character or decide they don't like him. If you believe they did watch the full video of the fight, then I'd say that's enough evidence to form even a bit of a negative opinion on Nine and his character (after all, it does showcase Nine fighting the hedgehog they believe could be a sign of hope/an asset to the resistance. It's not too hard to come to the conclusion that Sonic and Nine may have been fighting up until being captured, even if that isn't the truth).

Now, the first meeting.

If they do have bad impressions of Nine before meeting him, Rebel and Renegade don't hold these against him. Rebel only swoops in to save Sonic from the laser and battle the eggforcers (which also allows Nine to escape captivity). As for Renegade, although he arrives after Nine has used the commotion to sneak away to the monitor, forgotten, he also never accuses Nine of any foul play or of only caring about himself. During this scene, Nine frees Sonic, saves Sonic by taking control of Rusty Rose, and ultimately aids in the battle despite fighting.

Now, as for my claim that Renegade doesn't assume Nine as a threat to the resistance or believe him to be a bad guy, let's pinpoint the scene where Nine first talks to him.

"No"

If you rewatch this scene (Season 1 Episode 2), Renegade isn't moving with intent to attack Nine. After punching an eggforcer, he bounds in the direction he's facing. He takes one step, in the direction Nine happens to be in before Nine instinctively points a mechanical tail at him (perhaps assuming that Renegade was moving to sneak up on him?). In addition, Renegade has this surprised look on his face until Nine says his next words.

"Catch up, Echidna. I'm one of the good guys."

Of course, this does no favor to Nine’s image regarding Renegade (especially as this isn't the only moment like this in terms of how Nine talks to Renegade), but it doesn't prove Nine's a bad guy. At worst, it frustrates and annoys Renegade, and if it comes off as some sort of "secret villain red flag" to Renegade, he doesn't keep this moment in the forefront of his mind. After all, he and Rebel both choose to follow Nine's idea of stealing the Chaos Council's energy crystal, and they don't mention or act like they are suspicious of Nine during the fight. This is all to say that, at the current moment, to them Nine may have an attitude, but he's not evil or intending to betray anyone.

An attitude like Nine's during this portion is either something to overlook or a trait tacked onto an indication depending on how any given person sees you. This is to say that at best if someone likes you or believes you to be good, you're "just a little rough around the edges", and if someone dislikes you or believes you to be bad, it's "of course someone bad would have an attitude like this". It's an accessory, not inherently an indication of moral character or intentions. Someone can use it to further implicate him/find more reasons to dislike him later (such as when people talk/post/write about people they think are bad people and start nitpicking their appearance in their reasoning), but for now his attitude isn't enough to make Rebel or Renegade distrust him.

After all, didn't they really think Nine would save them after nabbing the red paradox prism shard?

The shot is a bit hard to get, as they fully smile just before the show cuts back to Nine. This is the best shot of it I have at the moment. Just know that during Rebel's recount of this event in Season 1 Episode 6, Rebel and Renegade visually start to smile when they see Nine return with the shard.

Now that the mission is accomplished, we see that they're just waiting for Nine to rescue them. However, when Nine chooses to leave alone, Rebel and Renegade take it as betrayal.

Renegade is surprised before he turns angry, freeing Rebel, Rusty, himself in his rage. Rebel's expression deepens (as if angry, regretful) and closes her eyes.

These are not the reactions of people who distrusted Nine (or Sonic for that matter) from the start.

This scene pointedly shows us that Rebel, Renegade, and Rusty did not see Sonic disappear into the red shard (the doors shut before they can). Then they watch Nine leave them to their fates, making off with the shard as Sonic is nowhere to be found. It's not about Nine's attitude or unfriendlyness (or, again, Sonic's attitude for that matter. As Sonic *also* made Renegade frustrated the same way Nine did, but by calling everyone by the wrong names). It's the fact that they have every reason to believe Nine AND Sonic used them only to abandon them when they got the shard.

And this is perhaps shown best this interaction between Renegade and Sonic.

"I didn't steal the shard!"

"But your fox friend did."

Sonic had explained what happened to him to Renegade, who explained it to Rebel. Despite this, Rebel still saw him as a backstabber, angry enough to want to leave him at the mercy of the chaos council or turn him "into a handbag". Why?

Well, remember that Renegade and Rebel's first introduction to Nine was Nine bringing his and Sonic's friendship status into question. Whether they believed the two to truly be friends then, they did see the two conversing at the red crystal before Sonic disappeared and Nine left them high and dry. So even if Sonic hadn't purposely left them, I don't think it's a stretch here to say that Rebel and Renegade had assumed the two planned to leave Renegade, Rebel, and Rusty behind. Perhaps Sonic didn't make off with the shard, and perhaps he couldn't help his disappearance, but his partner made off with it.

Rebel and Renegade don't know Sonic, especially not like the audience does. Both with the knowledge they had at hand AND to deal with what was a shocking betrayal to them, Rebel and Renegade considered Nine and Sonic to both be traitors. This is also not to mention that despite Sonic's new testimony of his disappearance and his surprise that Nine would leave Rebel, Rusty, and Renegade to die, he wouldn't give Nine up to them.

Sonic has to try really hard, advocate for himself after a score of disappearances, and help the rebels a number of times for Renegade and Rebel to even consider that he's telling the truth about his helping them.

Likewise, Nine doesn't advocate for himself (or really care to). He swoops in to fight, takes Sonic to disappear again. He swoops in to fight for a bit, and then is captured by the Chaos Council.

And not only do Rebel and Renegade not know he was captured specifically, they did not see it. Earlier, before the battle, they made it clear that the red shard could not fall into the Chaos Council's clutches, or everything would be done for. Renegade even probed Sonic for Nine's location so they could make sure Nine would never give it to the coucil (even despite Sonic's testimony that Nine would never do that). Not only does Nine's capture give the Coucil the red shard, it gives them the secrets to interdimensional travel and makes them more of a threat than before.

This is all to say that, on top of the fact that Nine doesn't try to change their opinion of him as a traitor, as far as they know (influenced by their own biased impressions of him) Nine started working with the Chaos Council, betrayed them all again to get ahead.

We the audience know just as Sonic does that Nine was captured, and that he used his status to aid Sonic and their search for the prism shards from the inside.

Rebel and Renegade do not.

In fact, (now starting from Season 2 Episode 5), Rebel and Renegade are both distrustful of Sonic when he tries to tell them this (and the fact that they see it as his fault that the Council nabbed more prism shards doesn't help)

"I'm gonna bust into the Yoke, grab the shards, and rescue Nine!"

"The fox with the attitude? The one who stole the shard?"

"I...know he's a little rough around the edges..."

"It's not just the edges."

"But he saved you!"

"And then he disappeared again."

"Because he was captured! We can trust him."

"Him? We don't even trust you."

Nine's actions matter to them, and those actions color their perception of Nine for a while. Same goes for Sonic. Their trust is not easily won back after being broken.

The only reason they decide to travel to the Yoke with Sonic in the first place is because they need to make sure the Coucil doesn't keep the shards, and Sonic is going there to try to take them anyways. They don't trust him, but they do need him.

Later in the episode, "Nine" contacts Sonic to tell him of a way into the Council's fortress. We can safely infer that this "Nine" who contacts Sonic is not the real thing. The voice sounds at best like a robotic imitation, and the way "Nine" talks is suspect enough for Sonic to mention that he sounds weird and to ask if he's okay. But not only do Rebel and Renegade have no reason not to believe that this is the real Nine leading Sonic into the Yoke, Sonic himself vouches for him.

"My inside fox is gonna get us in. Come on!"

"'Bring your friends.' Why would he say that?"

"Because he's a nice guy? I told you, we can trust him."

"Not like we have another option."

Whether Rebel believes that's the real Nine or not, she suspects Sonic is being led into a trap. Even Renegade says he "doesn't like this" and mentions how ominous everything feels when the doors into the Yoke open. They only go along with Sonic because they have no other ways to get into the building.

But lo and behold, it's a trap. Sure we the audience know that this is the Chaos Coucil's doing, that Mr. Dr. tricked Nine into giving him info about Sonic that would spark the idea of Chaos Sonic's creation. We know Nine regrets this slip up and even apologizes to Sonic later for being responsible for Chaos Sonic's creation, and we know Sonic doesn’t doubt Nine's telling the truth.

But to Rebel and Renegade? Sonic just followed his so called "inside fox" right into a trap. It plays into how they already see him, just as Sonic's forced transports to the other shatterspaces before this (via touching the shards) continued to play into how they already saw Sonic as a deserter. They distrust Nine for valid reasons, but it’s because of this distrust and their ideas of who Nine is that they believe the worst of him, even when the audience can see that Nine isn’t intending on betraying any given person.

And Chaos Sonic doesn’t help this view of Nine that Rebel and Renegrade have either.

"Failure? You've got the wrong hedgehog, pal."

"Au contraire, blue hair. I know a fox that might disagree with you."

"Another trap. I knew that fox would set us up!"

So when Nine contacts Sonic himself later...

"Sonic! Are you there?"

"Sorry, pal, but I'm a little busy at the moment."

"I have a plan. Follow my directions and lead it to me."

"Ya sure?"

"Positive. But you gotta hurry!"

"What else is new?"

Here's what Renegade, Rebel, and Dread have to save about it.

"Sonic, wait!"

"Ugh. I'm starting to think he likes traps."

"Aye. He does."

Again. We the audience know this isn't a trap. After following Nine's directions, Nine uses the prism energy to blast and destroy Chaos Sonic after this.

But Rebel and Renegade don't trust Nine. They see this as Sonic falling into all of Nine's traps out of naive trust.

And Dread only agrees because he did use Sonic's trust to lead him into a trap. Dread hasn't met Nine, but if others think this is a trap, he has no reason to believe anything other than Nine being another person weaponizing Sonic's blind trust.

And aside from when Renegade saves Sonic and Nine from Dread later, this is the last time Renegade or Rebel see/hear about Nine. Sometimes Nine really does betray their trust, sometimes Nine is truly trying to help Sonic, but after the initial betrayal, everything Renegade and Rebel see (in regards to Nine’s words and actions) plays into their point of view of Nine as a traitor.

Rebel and Renegade aren't insisting that Nine is going to betray Sonic because they're right and Nine is "secretly evil" and going to do just that or whatever. Sonic isn’t ignoring the "bad" things that Nine did only for Sonic to be punished with Nine being a bad traitor villain all along.

Rebel and Renegade keep insisting that Nine is a traitor because he left them behind, because he doesn't care about them, AND because every bit of evidence they see (a miniscule bit compared to what the audience sees) just so happens to play into their existing biased view of him.

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Let's move on to Rusty Rose.

Now this portion is shorter, as she only has a single run in with Nine. This singular run in is during the first few episodes when Nine takes control of her to help him, Sonic, Rebel, and Renegade fight.

Now here's something important about Rusty we learn in Season 2.

1. Loyalty matters to her.

2. She can choose her own alignment.

Rusty Rose's lines to Sonic when he's in the Chaos Council's clutches, in addition to the fact that the Chaos Council turned her into a fighting machine, gives us a hint as to what's going on here.

"Survival required adaptation, as you will soon learn."

Rusty Rose has always cared about her well-being. But to those she is loyal to, she would give even her life. This is to say that whether she gave herself up as the Chaos Council's weapon for her own survival or whether they saved her and she decided to work with them because of this (and because they'd destroy her otherwise), she is loyal to them. At baseline, she is loyal because she believes they will never betray her, that they will always come for her.

How exactly do we learn this?

In season 2, while Dread and his crew still have Rusty Rose in captivity, she insists the Chaos Council will come for her, and even becomes smug when the council comes for the shard.

The chaos council has come for me and the shard. Just as I said they would."

But in the end, the Chaos Council chooses to leave her after obtaining the shard. She seems surprised that they would betray her, even after following every order to the best of her ability and acting as they had programmed her to. And so, after the Council deserts her, she changes her loyalty (her eye turns pink from the red color) and decides to join Dread's crew.

This scene mirrors a point in the first few episodes.

When Nine briefly reprograms Rusty to work for him, her lone eye changes to the color yellow. Likewise, she's loyal to Nine and the rest and follows orders. And although we don't get to see her face in the Season 2 Episode 5 flashback when Nine emerges with the red shard as we do with Rebel and Renegade, we DO see her face when Nine leaves. If you look back to the screenshot I provided in the Rebel and Renegade section of this essay, you'll see that she looks sad and disappointed. She was betrayed and left behind too.

And what does she do when Nine leaves her behind? She restores her Chaos Council programming and her eye turns red again. She returns back to the only people she can seem to trust to value her.

So Rusty may not have spent much time with Nine, but loyalty matters to her. So all Rusty likely knows of Nine as of the ending of Season 2 is that he betrayed her.

I think with this in mind, it's safe to say that she has no reason to like him or believe in him at the moment either, even if she doesn't subscribe to common ideas of morality either. He betrayed his crew and it's as simple as that (and that's why she has no problem blasting Sonic when Dread frames him as a traitor).

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Now for the Chaos Council.

Now, I think it's clear given the fact that they appropriated his tech and that Mr. Dr. Eggman (in S2 E6) referred to Nine as having a "less dull mind than the usual rifraff", the Council at the very least sees Nine as someone who is a bit more intelligent than most of New Yoke's citizens. Given that their goals are to continuously conquer and *gestures to all that they're doing* they're less concerned with morals and more concerned with their own goals. This means that they just dislike/hate anyone who gets in their way. Things like morals, relationships, etc are all things to manipulate to get what you want (if Mr. Dr. Eggman's talks with Nine are any indication).

So. How does the Council see Nine? Do they see him as someone secretly about to or willing to betray Sonic?

Let's start with their first impressions of Nine (or rather, how they will remember him).

In Season 1 Episodes 1 and 2, while Nine and Sonic are captured, Nine's life and wellbeing is largely used as motivation for Sonic to follow the Council's orders. Aside from this, though, most of the focus (the camera and the Council's) is on Sonic. So, from the events of Episode 2 and 3 of season 1 where Sonic, Nine, Renegade, Rebel, and Rusty fight their way to the red shard, it's simple enough for the Council to consider them all friends (sans Rusty). Doesn't matter if they actually are. They work together (and with Sonic who considers them all friends), so they might as well be friends to the Council. This is not to mention how Mr. Dr. watches Sonic and Nine enter where the shard is, are aware via the power shutting off that their energy crystal has been stolen, and then Sonic and Nine are the two that disappear before the Council can capture them. So at the very least Nine is...cunning. In their minds, he's smart enough to take the power crystal, but not so smart as to clash with the Council's egos.

Now, whether they knew only Nine had taken the red shard or they assumed both Nine and Sonic had coordinated (like Rebel and Renegade had originally assumed), it doesn't really matter here. In S1 E6, Sonic appears (clearly shardless) mentioning the existence of other shards and asking where Nine is (thus indicating he doesn't know where Nine and the red shard are). Then, during the Chaos Council vs Sonic + Resistance battle after this, Nine appears out of a portal with the red shard upon his craft.

And if they hadn't seen "the fox who stole the shard" as Sonic's friend before, there is clear evidence can see between now and the Mr. Dr. Eggman/Nine talk that leads to Chaos Sonic’s creation that they do now.

In Episode 8 of Season 1, the Council discusses eliminating Sonic in pursuit of their conquest, but Nine voices his dissent.

"Agreed. With our work complete, I'll give our girl-bot the go ahead on Operation Elimination."

"Tch. Eliminating the hedgehog is a bad idea."

"Arguing for the life of your friend? What a shock."

After this, Nine argues against the idea that he and Sonic are friends, but he ultimately convinces the council not to eliminate him outright.

"You sent your robots to another shatterspace. Big difference. You've only barely accomplished what he's done without any technology. He's a living shatter battery!"

*The power in the yoke dies briefly, and the coucil members each groan/make sounds of frustration*

"Til we know why he gives off this power, we need him alive. What? H– Grahck!"

*An eggforcer shocks Nine*

"The rat's right. Too many questions for us to start playing exterminator. At least...not until after we wring every ounce of shatterjuice out of that blue varmint."

Not only does he smile in talking about Sonic's accomplishments, but, if you check the end of this scene, Nine lowers his head when the council laughs over Dr. Done It's final statement, he grits his teeth, and he frowns.

In Episode 4 of Season 2, the Council brings Nine out front, and Mr. Dr. sits there when Sonic arrives to see him.

"Nine?"

"Sonic, get out of here!"

*The Eggforcers shock Nine*

"No..."

In fact, when Mr. Dr. threatens the lives of Sonic’s friends if Sonic doesn’t give over the shard, he pointedly leans in Nine's direction as the eggforcers ready their electricity based weapons.

"I'll make this simple."

*Mr. Dr. Eggman moves his chair closer to where Nine is*

"Hand over the shard, or say good bye to your friends forever."

In case you don't go back to watch the episode for this, also note that he begins to lean over during the "to your friends" part of the line, and Nine is the only one of Sonic’s friends in view of the camera as Mr. Dr. gives the ultimatum. The camera only shifts to include Sonic's captured friends after shifting between Nine and Sonic's expressions, and after Sonic turns around to look at them.

So I don't think it's a stretch to say that Mr. Dr. Eggman thinks Sonic and Nine are friends by this point. At the very very least he knows Sonic considers Nine one, given how comfortable he is using Nine as leverage.

Anyhow, in all of the Nine/Chaos Council scenes between his initial capture and the scene where Mr. Dr. asks Nine how to defeat Sonic, the council isn't fully aware of Nine contacting Sonic. This means they are not yet aware of his continued contact with Sonic and do not know what the audience knows about Nine's working them from the inside. They just make Nine upgrade their shatterdrive, remark that they keep him around for his knowledge on the shatterdrive, make him deploy eggforcers, and then keep him cuffed with eggforcer supervision at all times (should he try to escape). They don't trust him enough to keep him uncuffed and completely unsupervised, and they need his knowledge regarding the shards, but they underestimate him. Dr. Don't provides him full access to their systems, even when they leave Nine alone with Eggforcers, they aren't monitoring what Nine could be saying/doing behind their back, and they seem to think they have Nine under their thumbs enough to destroy him should he attempt to fight back.

Let's move on to Season 2 Episode 5.

In Nine's first appearance in this episode, he's led into the room the Council is in by some Eggforcers and employs his "attitude".

"Ahem. You rang for me?"

"How long are we putting up with him?"

"He's built us what we want. Get rid of him already."

"Now, now. We're going to put him to work. But this one posseses a—shall we say—less dull mind than the usual riff-raff. He'll appreciate this."

Then, the council gives Nine a demonstration of the power they possess with the three shards in their possessions and uses it to build upgraded eggforcers for the purpose of quashing Sonic and the resistance. What is the purpose of this in tandem with Mr. Dr. Eggman's "compliment"? I think the next scene involving Nine and the council gives us a bit more context to form an idea.

During this scene, we see that the council has Nine standing before their display, watching Sonic and the resistance fight upgraded bots in the scareport.

"Enjoying the show?"

"It won't be enough."

"Enough?! Balderdash! My jumbo eggforcers will pound that varmint into blueberry jelly!"

"We'll see."

"Yes. We will."

With the combination of "complimenting" Nine, showing off their power and harnessing of the shards after discussing the topic of getting rid of him, and making him watch the upgraded bots fight Sonic, it's clear to me that they're making a power play here (or at least, Mr. Dr. Eggman is). Mr. Dr. is trying to make it clear the might they possess, the futility of rebellion or of trying to disobey orders.

But here, after Nine says "We'll see", I think Mr. Dr. decides to swap tactics a little. They're still trying (and failing) to defeat Sonic, and Nine seems to believe no matter what that Sonic will come out on top. Perhaps Mr. Dr. at least realizes that their display of power is not scaring Nine into submission or causing him to give up on Sonic.

"You admire him, don't you? For all of your bluster, you think of him as a friend. Funny. I thought you were smart."

And I don't see any reason why Mr. Dr. Eggman would lie about an observation like this. If it was about aligning Nine as Sonic's friend while Nine is secretly planning to betray Sonic or doesn't like him, then the focus wouldn't be on Nine's intelligence. To reiterate, Nine's friendship status (or at least, whether he believes Sonic to be his friend) is not put into question so much as how "smart" of a move it is to place his faith and friendship in Sonic. It's manipulation tactic to put Nine's trust in Sonic into question, to again try to get him to lose faith in Sonic. Why? Well...why else? Nine is Sonic's "friend" to the Council, right? So Nine is their best chance at figuring out how to destroy Sonic.

"We both know that the other members of the council won't stop Sonic. They lack vision and imagination. Unlike you."

"You think I have vision and imagination?"

"Perhaps. Or perhaps you're just a stupid fox. Alone. Useless. Pathetic."

Here it's incredibly clear the way Mr. Dr. is trying to use Nine's insecurities against him. Even if he's only guessing, talking up or insulting his intelligence and talents or playing into a possible fear of loneliness and uselessness is a really good guess.

But when Nine gets ahold of himself, uses his tails to gain height and push Mr. Dr. back this time, and insults the Council's intelligence, Mr. Dr. resorts back to brute force. He laughs off the insults and brandishes one of those electricity based weapons.

"Tell me how to defeat Sonic!"

Of course, if Nine was only using Sonic for his own purposes of gathering the shards and secretly planning on betraying him, he could have done so at any point before now, or made it clear that he's set the plans in motion. But since we know Nine's confident in his ability to fight for himself and escape during episode 6 of season 2, he believes himself to have more control over his situation than anyone else does. With this in mind, as long as he's guaranteed a clean enough getaway with the shards he can choose to do so. This gives Nine the ability to manipulate the council back and use them to get the shards. And, to an extent, he does! Although Sonic fails in securing any of them, Nine puts himself in a position to use the council to get anything he wants, even telling Sonic that he's working them from the inside. With this in mind, while there is still risk involved, I believe that he doesn’t necessarily need Sonic's help.

This is all to say that any of these moments in Season 2 Episode 5 would have been a fine point to betray Sonic by telling the council everything he knows about him. The council is full of idiots (to Nine)—idiots with power, but idiots nonetheless. He very well could have used the council to get Sonic out of the way while continuing to play them so he could escape with all the shards.

And yet not only does he refuse to knowingly tell Mr. Dr. Eggman any weaknesses of Sonic’s, he trusts Sonic. Just see the way he's so sure Sonic will win, even as Mr. Dr. Eggman is trying to make him feel stupid for doing so. See how Nine talked about Sonic in S1 E8, tried to convince the council they’d be idiots to get rid of Sonic. See the way that Nine chooses to risk his own plans by contacting Sonic as regularly as he can. See just how Nine talks about Sonic when Mr. Dr. Eggman stops attempting to appeal to Nine's insecurities to get him to lose trust in Sonic:

"You can't. He's too fast. He thinks on his feet. No matter what you throw at him, he takes it. No matter how hard you hit him, he always gets back up! You'll never beat Sonic, because you can't understand him. You don't think like he thinks. You're not even in the same league.

And what does Nine do when Mr. Dr. Eggman and the Council treat those words as if he sold Sonic out (knowingly or not)? He tries to take it back. He says "what have I done?" He immediately tries to contact Sonic (likely to warn him), not realizing Dr. Don't had entered the room until he's caught in the act.

"Warning your friend? Not cool."

He doesn’t at all look pleased watching the Council create Chaos Sonic. He says "what have I done?" a second time while watching Sonic fight Chaos Sonic. Even Dr. Done It regards Nine's "selling out your blue chum" as a slip of the tongue.

And what does the Council do when they learn that Nine's been in contact with Sonic all along? Well they use this relationship to their advantage, of course.

Ah, ah, ah. Let's not be hasty. The fox can lure Sonic right to us."

After all of this, from now until the ending of season 2, here is what the council knows about Nine. They know he managed to steal all the shards out from under them again (with Sonic's assistance), and they pretty much just attempt to track him down to take the shards back. After arriving at Ghost Hill, they put most of their focus on fighting Sonic and Shadow to get to where Nine is with the shards, dealing with their immediate obstacles. They're also firmly antagonistic against Nine, as he's stolen the shards from them and is no longer under their control.

So let's summarize what we can safely assume the Council knows and believes by the Ghost Hill battle. Nine is intelligent, and his know-how and tech are extremely useful. They'd underestimated him, allowing him to steal the shards under their noses, contact Sonic to feed him information, and escape with said shards. They know that Nine trusts Sonic, considers Sonic a friend (at the very least), and believes Sonic will come out on top.

So we return to those questions.

How does the Chaos Council see Nine? As a tool to be used for his information, his intelligence, his technology, and his limbs, capable of performing work. They see him as Sonic's friend (an important one at that). He's bait for Sonic, a pawn that can be used to lure Sonic or motivate him to make certain choices. He's to be used when he can be, and to be crushed if he opposes the Council or is no longer useful.

Do they see him as someone secretly about to or willing to betray Sonic? Do they try to get Nine to betray him? Yes! They command him to dispatch eggforcers and upgrade their tech. They use his well-being as a bargaining chip or to lure Sonic into a trap. They're constantly using him against Sonic. They can see he has the potential to betray, which is exactly why Mr. Dr. appeals to his insecurities to persuade Nine to give up information on Sonic and let go of his trust in Sonic. And yet...they don't seem to think Nine is actively planning to betray Sonic. If they thought so, why spend so much time trying to convince him that placing faith in Sonic is stupid? Why not actively try to persuade Nine to work with them instead? Why do they keep on having to try? Why do they enjoy watching Nine protest as they laugh about how Nine betrayed Sonic? (And why does the insuation that it's all Nine's fault that the council could destroy Sonic get to him the way it does?)

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Let's talk about Shadow the Hedgehog.

Shadow (similar to Rebel and Renegade) is a character than people often forget to consider the full pov of. This is to say that I've seen people forget what it is exactly that Shadow knows, and what of his knowledge informs his actions and beliefs (like people believing that Shadow was stupid for thinking that getting Nine's tech would allow him to traverse the shatterverse, forgetting that he didn't even have a tenth of the knowledge Sonic does of everything going on, much less the audience's, by season 2).

So with this in mind, before Shadow and Sonic talk at the beginning of Season 2, what does Shadow know about Nine, and how does he act based upon this knowledge?

Before Season 2, we, the audience, largely see Shadow appear in either flashbacks or trying to talk to Sonic (which happens when he starts to run fast enough to exit the shatterspace or is hurled through the in between after touching a shard), so it’s hard to know the extent of what he knows or can even gather in those moments of communication. Luckily, Season 2 Episode 1 gives us a chance to see some things from Shadow's point of view.

Unluckily, it's a bit hard to determine what exactly Shadow can hear and see at this point, as the first Shadow pov sprinkles in a couple moments Shadow most likely could not have seen (but we cannot rule out him seeing)—moments that tell the audience what point in time everything is occurring. One such moment is when Shadow is chilling on a crystal in the space between the shatterspaces and we see the scene of Sonic being sucked into the red shard before he shoots out of the New Yoke portal entrance. This is to say, it's hard to know for sure whether Shadow is aware of all of the scenes that play out for the audience, such as the clips that play as Shadow punches the entrance to New Yoke (Sonic losing control of his feet/legs, the shot of Mr. Dr. watching Sonic run, etc).

What we can glean from context, though (during this portion, as well as later moments) is that Shadow can at the very least see and hear Sonic, even possibly some of his surroundings (within limits). At the beginning of Episode 1 of Season 2, we can see Sonic sort of partially phase through the portal and into the in between when he runs fast enough (parallel to how Shadow can begin to partly phase into the shatterspace from Sonic's pov if Shadow is around him). During Season 2, namely during the No Place portion as Sonic tries to make off with the blue shard, we can even watch Shadow hold a conversation with Sonic and see changes to his appearance (such as the red dot of light on Sonic as Dread's crew aims to blast him). And finally, during Season 2 Episode 1, Shadow admits that he saw Nine in his lab giving Sonic the tech and the lab Sonic ran fast in (scenes that played for the audience while Shadow was busy punching the New Yoke portal).

Okay, so let's consider what we can see before Shadow confronts Sonic in the space between. At the very very least, he's aware that Sonic has new tech on his gloves and shoes and can hear everything Sonic says when Shadow manages to reach him through the portals. At the very most, he has some strange unexplained telepathy that allows him to see and hear some of what Sonic sees and hears. Of course, I don't personally believe the latter, as this hasn't really come up or been explained. So in my opinion, at most he can just see and hear what's going on and Sonic’s surroundings within certain limits. Under this interpretation, I believe that it's possible he saw and heard some of the scenes the audience sees here such Nine talking about energy, Sonic losing control, etc (if his admittance of seeing Nine and Sonic in the lab as Nine puts the regulators on Sonic is anything to go by).

So what does this mean for Shadow's knowledge? I believe it's safe to infer that, from Shadow's pov, the tech Sonic got from the strange version of Tails (Nine) has some sort of effect on him (as Sonic started to move through shatterspaces after this).

The next piece of knowledge we know Shadow could learn is the existence of alternate versions of people in the different shatterspaces. When Shadow finally gets ahold of Sonic, Sonic (loudly) starts trying to sus out whether Shadow is "grumpy Shadow" or "Shadow who needs a shower" or "Sheriff Shadow" or whoever. Then, after this, he realizes that this is the original Shadow he's faced with.

"Shadow, you're...you! The real you!"

"The only me."

This is info enough for Shadow to learn there are other versions of people they (Sonic and Shadow) know out in the shatterspaces. It's even enough context to assume that they are copies of the real thing, fakes, if Sonic's wording of "the real you" is anything for him to go by.

Here are the next two bits of information to add to Shadow's abilities and what he knows (one we learn about Shadow, and one tidbit that adds to Shadow's knowledge). The first is a bit of a testimony of just what he can see when Sonic kicks up a lot of prism energy.

"Have...you been able to see me this whole time?"

"Not exactly. When you get going fast, you kick up prism energy, and it thins the veil to the void. It's like it's...opening a portal through the gateway."

So, at the very least, we know that Shadow can't just see Sonic whenever he wants, and hasn't been doing so the whole time. As Sonic kicks up prism energy by running fast, it thins the veil to the place in between, allowing Sonic and Shadow to see each other.

The second bit would be Shadow hearing about Nine for the first time.

"So that must be how I teleported into No Place. I was looking for Nine, I started running fast, and then, suddenly, I portaled out of New Yoke."

This isn't a lot, but it at least tells us that the existence of Nine has entered the equation here. A being that Sonic knows by name who exists in one of the shatterspaces, and someone that Sonic was specifically looking for.

Now, I want to bring up something interesting about Shadow's pov after he and Sonic enter Ghost Hill. Aside from some possible tidbits here and there (and more than likely experience solely through seeing and talking to Sonic), the bulk of Shadow's experiences with the shatterspaces are based upon his experience with Ghost Hill (the only shatterspace he can enter at this time).

"What’s wrong with them?"

"It's a shatterspace, Sonic. Just like the others. A cruel version to make us suffer."

"A cruel version to make us suffer"

That line alone gives us more insight into Shadow's pov. While we, the audience, can see that the existence of those who live in the shatterspaces aren't inherently existing out of cruelty/to mess with someone like Sonic, Shadow has only seen what Ghost Hill is like. This tells us that Shadow sees Ghost Hill as a cruel version of Green Hill, an imitation that allows you to see but not have. It shows you the places and faces and voices you know, but none of it is "real" (or in this case, the original). It's not even surprising for Shadow to feel that this is cruel or purposeful. I mean, he is the one trapped, unable to do anything, as Sonic just so happens to be the one with the power to fix anything. He is the one who's doomed to watch the shatterverse change while he can't do a thing about it. And so of course the only shatterspace he can enter tricks him into thinking it may have been home (the home that's gone). Of course that shatterspace is filled with imitations that seem like what he lost but cannot be.

While Sonic is on his hero's journey, Shadow is stuck in a genre more psychological. So of course, via his experiences being stuck and his only experience with one of the shatterspaces, he'd assume the entire shatterverse was designed this way.

So, to sum this up a little bit. It is entirely likely that Shadow sees the inhabitants of the shatterverse as not only fake copies, but of those whose existence is part of a cruel game to make he and Sonic suffer over the shattering of the prism and the loss of their home. Does this make sense? It not only inherently hurts, but it’s designed to be cruel.

Shadow has only met the "ghosts" of Ghost Hill at this point. He doesn't fully know what we the audience know—that the inhabitants of the shatterspaces are real people with lives and backstories.

Now, with all of this in mind, how does Shadow first approach Sonic regarding the knowledge he has? Remember. It's, baseline, that Sonic can enter shatterpaces while he can't, Sonic started moving through shatterspaces after obtaining the tech on his gloves and shoes from a being who resembles Tails, Sonic creates portals and thins the veil between shatterspaces and the void when he runs fast, that "Nine" is an inhabitant of one of the shatterspaces Sonic knows and looked for at some point, that Ghost Hill is the only shatterspace he can enter, that Ghost Hill resembles and immitates Green Hill to a degree of cruelty, and that he believes that all the shatterspaces are "cruel" versions of his and Sonic’s home with fake versions of people they know, crafted specifically to make the two of them suffer.

"Yeah...yeah, that could work! It has to work! We gotta show Nine. He's like super smart! He knows a ton about prism energy. He–"

"No."

"No?"

"No."

"Why 'no'? I just said he's, like, super smart."

"He can’t be trusted."

If there's one bit from the Shadow portion so far I need to point out, it's this. Shadow asserts that Nine cannot be trusted. Shadow has never even met Nine at this point, only seen him standing in the lab with Sonic. How can he be so sure that Nine—or the other inhabitants for that matter—are specifically untrustworthy? Not even just fake imitations. Untrustworthy.

Why does Shadow jump to this conclusion?

"What are you talking about? Of course he can. He's just like Tails. He's just a little...angsty, that's all."

Again, there is no proof that Shadow has even seen much more than maybe an image of Nine, much less met him. Sonic's sticking up for Nine's attitude again, just like he did when talking to Rebel and Renegade, but Shadow cannot even know much of anything about Nine. He should not have a bias (beyond looks) based upon knowing Nine.

And this also means that, most likely, Shadow cannot assert that Nine is untrustworthy due to any solid evidence like Rebel or Renegade can, for example.

"He's not Tails. He's Nine. And they're not. Your real. Friends."

"Dude. He's real. This is his reality. And you know what else is real? Nine's tech on my kicks and punching sticks. So back up off Nine."

So, again. Why does Shadow jump to the conclusion that Nine and the other inhabitants of the shatterspaces are untrustworthy? This is what I think based upon the evidence we've gathered in this section.

I believe that it's entirely possible that Shadow sees himself stuck in a psychological horror. Based on his experiences living in the shatterverse so far, this reality they're in is like a punishment game. He and Sonic are both being punished for how Sonic shattered the paradox prism. Their home is gone, everything is broken. Unless they can fix it, the shatterverse is the setting of this cruel game, filled with shatterspaces (pale imitations of the home they lost) and the copies—fake beings—who inhabit it that were created with the sole purpose of hurting Sonic and Shadow. They hold similarities of the settings and the faces of the people they know as if to taunt (or to remind what they lost and cannot have). Logically under this framework, if Shadow believes that the inhabitants of the shatterverse have an inherently cruel existence and exist to make them hurt, then them seeming real is a distraction from the fact that they're designed to hurt (think...how Yen Sid tells Sora in Kingdom Hearts 2 that Nobodies are fake people, and any emotion they show is a manipulation tactic to make people believe that they're real). But Sonic is not only acting like they're real, considering them friends, he's trusting them. Perhaps Shadow feels...angry, because the only other "real" person (the one who caused all this) keeps chasing these living lies and believing them when they say/act like they can help end this hurt (help "fix" everything, restore it to how it used to be). Perhaps to him, these people (Nine included) are beings who wish to bring hurt, so why, then, would they help end that hurt or erase their own existences by "fixing" everything? Maybe Shadow thinks Sonic is being stupid, that he's placing his trust in Nine only because he sees Tails' face (falling for the lie), and is also angry because Sonic would stick up for and trust Nine rather than believe him—someone who is real and wants to end the hurt.

Okay okay, I'll stop there for now. That's moreso an interpretation I think you can derive from the beginning of Episode 1 of Season 2 up to this point rather than necessarily fact or authorial intent. I just think it's...food for thought.

Of course I also happen to think that Shadow, with his limited knowledge of who Nine even is, also chooses to insist that Nine specifically is untrustworthy because he becomes jealous that Sonic values a "fake" so much and thinks of him so highly, trusting him even over Shadow (someone who is real and clearly just wants to help Sonic as well as fix everything).

In any case, here are the facts up to this point. Shadow has heard Nine's name, knows the tech on Sonic was designed by him, watched Nine put the tech on Sonic, thinks this tech Nine created allows Sonic to traverse the shatterverse, and knows Nine is smart and "like Tails" because Sonic speaks highly of him. With this evidence, Shadow believes Nine is untrustworthy. He also believes the inhabitants of the shatterspaces aren't real and cannot be Sonic's friends. Shadow also grows angry when Sonic tries to argue and assert that Nine is trustworthy and that he and his other friends are real.

After Season 2 Episode 1, Shadow takes more of a backseat role. While we get to see his pov at times, or even watch him talk to Sonic, he can only see inside the shatterspaces to any extent while Sonic is kicking up enough prism energy. This, of course, means that Shadow is still not privy to most of the information Sonic and the audience are.

In Season 2 Episode 2, Shadow (to our knowledge) is not privy to much going on. In fact, with what we know about the limitations he has of seeing inside the shatterspaces, he could have seen during the portions Sonic is particularly speeding, but none of these occur in relation to Nine. This is all to say that we the audience could see the scene where Nine contacted Sonic through the eggforcer, explained how he was infiltrating the Council from the inside, and upgraded Sonic's tech to make gathering the shards easier, but Shadow does not.

Here is the only conversation between Nine and Sonic in Episode 2 of Season 2 that Shadow was privy to any of.

"Hang on, Nine. I'm comin' for ya."

"No. Don't worry about me. I'm working on a plan to get the shards from the inside. The best thing for you to do is to get the next shard before they do."

"Are you sure?"

"Totally! These eggheads are playing into my hands. They don't—"

"—been dowloading their tech. You just need to get to the shard first, then get out. I better go."

At that last bit of dialogue (beginning with "You"), Sonic lands on a crystal out in the place between. After Nine hangs up on him, the camera zooms out, revealing Shadow standing on the shard next to him.

"That's the first time one of them has made any sense."

It's hard to know for sure how long Shadow has been listening to Sonic's conversation, but given just how far away he'd have to be stalking Sonic when he exits Boscage maze (far enough to hear without being within range of the camera), I think it's safe to assume he's at least listened to the lines Nine and Sonic spoke as Sonic landed on that piece of crystal. That line specifically was Nine instructing Sonic to get the No Place shard before the Chaos Council does, which lines up with the immediate goal Sonic and Shadow would have. This is to say that if Shadow heard this line at least, it makes sense for him to "compliment" Nine by saying that he makes any sort of sense.

Although I also believe Shadow says "That's the first time one of them has made any sense" because Nine is one of the first inhabitant of the shatterverse Shadow's heard that isn't exactly like the "ghosts" of Ghost Hill (essentially, seems to actually think rather than repeating a single line endlessly.

What this scene adds to Shadow's knowledge is that no matter how much of the convo he heard, he has reason to believe that Nine is also seeking the paradox prism shards. However, just because Shadow knows a motivation of Nine's and more of what he's like doesn't mean he trusts him. Or, at least, Sonic takes Shadow's attitude as him still being openly distrustful of Nine. Given how short Shadow is with Sonic, even spin dashing him into the No Place portal entrance, I don't find it too much of a stretch to assert that his attitude here is a mixture of his frustration at not being able to go himself and the relationship/trust Sonic insists on keeping up with Nine (rather than just "how he acts usually").

"Nine's on our side, Shadow. And if you're not gonna help, you can–"

"Oh. I can help."

Although Shadow shows up in Season 2 Episodes 3 and 4 to talk to Sonic and to delay the Chaos Council's mothership's arrival in No Place, none of these really involve Nine. In any of the moments Shadow could have seen Sonic in No Place, they were Sonic running away for the most part (trying to escape with the shard), which of course doesn't exactly help the pov he has of the shatterverse inhabitants. Though Nine also contacts Sonic and is able to see him during this portion, these do not coincide with the times Shadow talks to him. Likewise, although Nine was on the mothership while Shadow was attacking it, neither of them see each other, and there is no evidence to suggest that they are aware of each other's presence (as in, that Shadow knows Nine is on the mothership and Nine knows that Shadow is the attacker). With Shadow being largely absent the way he is, it stands to reason he still has no chance to see the complexity and humanity of the shatterspaces' inhabitants, especially since he's in contact with Sonic as Sonic is running away (trying not to get killed).

As for Episodes 5 and 6 of Season 2. Shadow only shows up once between these two. Specifically, Shadow's pov is shown in Episode 6 as he reacts to how the shatterverse is beginning to break down. Other than that, though, the only moments he'd have to peek into what's happening (offscreen in this case) would be while Sonic is running fast enough. During Episode 5 and most of 6, these moments Sonic may be running fast enough for Shadow to peek in on him are all while he's fighting. This, again, doesn't give Shadow a chance to really gauge the character of New Yoke's residents (aside from the council), much less a chance to see what's going on with Nine.

Even in Episode 7 of Season 2, Shadow doesn't show up until the scene in which he properly meets Nine. With this in mind, aside from Episode 1 of Season 2, Shadow is very rarely present during Season 2 before his first official meeting with Nine.

So, to summarize, this is what Shadow knows/thinks about Nine before properly meeting him. Nine is similar to Tails (in both looks and intelligence), Nine built the tech that Sonic wears on his gloves and shoes, Sonic trusts Nine and fancies him a friend, even going so far as to stick up for the idea that he's real and trustworthy, and Nine is also gathering the paradox prism shards.

That's...it. That's all. And Shadow knew even less when he'd initially claimed that Nine wasn't trustworthy. Before their official meeting, Shadow saw Nine maybe once via what he saw during Sonic's first arrival in New Yolk, and he heard him speak once after S2 E2, when he told Sonic to focus on getting the next shard. He has...such little context/knowledge compared to the audience.

Now, the first meeting. After Sonic and Nine enter the space between with the shards in Episode 7 of Season 2, Shadow catches the container for the shards with Nine on top.

"It's about time."

"Nine, meet Shadow. Shadow, meet Nine."

"You're not another version of Sonic...but you could be twins!"

"Hardly. I am the ultimate life form."

"Don't listen to him. Come on."

Personally, I don't feel as if Shadow acts differently than usual in this scene. He doesn't talk very much, doesn't greet Nine, and isn't necessarily "friendly", but, again, none of this is out of the ordinary for him. The only thing I can confidently say here is that Sonic’s problem is Shadow's attitute, which is why he tells Nine to ignore him. However, he responds as this is a usual thing as well. "He's always like this. Just ignore him." He is also not going out of his way to be mean or vindictive towards Nine. Even Nine (despite his talking about Sonic and Shadow's resemblance) can't have done more than mildly annoy Shadow.

No, what's more significant than the first meeting (for the purposes of this essay) is actually Nine's reaction to seeing Tails in Ghost Hill.

"This world... It's like an embryonic shatterspace. Like it got stuck in the blueprint phase while forming. Hmm... Perhaps it would be useful in finishing The Grim."

"As long as I'm around, you'll always have a wingman!"

"This is the friend Sonic thought was like me? Heh. We're nothing alike."

After this interaction occurs, the camera switches to Shadow, who begins to make this face.

There are two bits from Nine's words I believe could be of interest to Shadow here.

"Perhaps it would be useful in finishing The Grim."

"We're nothing alike."

Why?

Well, let's tackle the first one. One thing that Shadow knows about Nine is that Nine is also looking for the paradox prism shards. Sonic seems to think Nine is on his side, but Shadow hasn't trusted Nine and his intentions from the beginning (as I went a bit into earlier going over Shadow's opinions on Nine as of Episode 1 of Season 2). So if Shadow did hear this line (and it's a bit unclear, but not impossible, that he did), he has reason to believe that Nine doesn't want the shards for the same reason Shadow believes himself and Sonic do. Or, at the very least, that Nine just has different goals in general.

As for the second one, Shadow told Sonic all the way back in Episode 1 that Nine isn't Tails, that he can't be trusted, and that Nine (as well as the other variants) isn't one of Sonic's "real" friends. A statement like "We're nothing alike" straight from Nine's mouth would be validating in this case. It validates Shadow's opinion that Sonic is being stupid and that Nine and Tails aren't the same, and it can easily give Shadow less reason to trust him. After all, if Tails is someone who generally is considered a "good" person or someone who would logically try to help fix everything, but Nine is not at all like him... That line could put Shadow off because he's already distrustful of him, and because of the potential implications Nine could be making from as Shadow's pov. This is to say that although Nine here is only rejecting the idea that he is just like Tails (or really, just like anyone and not his own unique being), Shadow is already biased against him. With Nine's wording, it's not hard for Shadow to insert intent/implications where there are none in his interpretation of the line.

Now, what I find interesting after this (in addition to Shadow's lack of hostility towards Nine despite his assumptions back in Season 2 Episode 1) is the attitude change.

Of course Shadow may have been angrier at Sonic back then, but he had also asserted so confidently back then that Nine isn't Sonic's friend as isn't to be trusted (and not even confidently, but as if annoyed or angry). But he...fulfill's Nine's wish to be alone with the prism shards, offers to take Sonic out, and gives him a calmer talk at the end of Episode 7 of Season 2.

"How do you know you can trust him?"

...

"I don't think your 'friend' wants the same thing we do."

Vs.

"He can’t be trusted."

...

"He's not Tails. He's Nine. And they're not. Your real. Friends."

There are a multitude of reasons this change in tone and demeanor Shadow has could be. It could be because he calmed down a bit more since S2 E1, it could be that he's decided to take a different approach when talking to Sonic about Nine, it could be that he's not so overly confident in his belief that the variants are all just "cruel versions to make us suffer" anymore after meeting Nine (or at least that the variants are so one dimensional), or it could even be that he's decided that Nine is helpful but Sonic should be more on guard. It's...hard to know which or how many are the truth here. All we know is that there is an outright change between these scenes and even Shadow's attitude, and that, despite the little interaction they've had, what Shadow's seen and heard is enough for him to come to the conclusion that Nine may not have good intentions and/or that Nine isn't actually trying to help them. Just like with Rebel and Renegade, whether Shadow has valid reasons or reasoning we can understand from his pov on Nine's character and intentions, his heavy bias he had even before meeting Nine colors all the information Shadow learns about him. This is all to say that (like Renegade and Rebel) it's easy for even actions/statements that have no inherent bad intentions to just feed back into his existing bias against Nine.

So, just in case, I'll reiterate. Shadow does have enough evidence to suspect that Nine doesn't truly share his and Sonic's goals, and he has enough pre-existing bias based upon his first impressions of the Ghost Hill variants to be suspicious of Nine's intentions and character. However, he has still barely met, seen, or heard about Nine second-hand. He knows very few facts about Nine other than how he's intelligent, is looking for the shards too, and is someone Sonic clearly has some attachment to. Yet...he seems to feel that Nine is untrustworthy (perhaps even on gut instinct) despite the lack of solid proof.

Well, actually, he doesn't just feel, this way. He actually tells Sonic that he distrusts Nine.

"What about him? We can't just leave him alone with the prism shards."

"Uhhh, yes we can, seeing as how he's the only one who can put them back together. You know, fix reality. You really don't trust him, do ya?"

"No."

"Of course you don't. You don't trust anyone."

He doesn’t actually tell Sonic why he doesn't. If anything, throughout this whole scene of them talking about Nine, he seems not to understand why Sonic does trust Nine (why he and Sonic aren't on the same page). Perhaps it just feels...obvious to Shadow? But even then, with Shadow's facial expressions as Sonic takes the "Why wouldn't we trust him?" stance, it seems to be that Shadow's point of view remains to be that of "Sonic is trusting him naively. This is something that could cost us."

Finally, we arrive at the final episode of Season 2. Despite his distrust in Nine (like Renegade and Rebel before him regarding Sonic), he has no choice but to join Sonic in the battle against the Chaos Council. First, Sonic's right in saying that Nine is the only person they have right now who can recomplete the prism. Second, he doesn't want to leave Sonic to fight the Council alone.

Now, while Sonic is in communication with Nine during the battle, he rarely talks to him around Shadow. The only moment he does is when eggforcers breach the mountain and put the prism's security and Nine's safety in jeopardy, to which Shadow only tells Sonic to go and protect the prism. Out of the two, I feel as if it's clear that Shadow trusts himself to hold his own over Sonic (I mean, he felt as if he (Shadow) was the best one to gather the shards in S2 E1, and he just made a statement about how badly the battles go when Sonic fights alone), so it makes sense why he'd send Sonic off to fight some eggforcers while he himself holds his own against the council, giving Sonic his chance to move. This is all to say that it makes sense why Shadow doesn't choose to be the one to protect the prism here, but we should also keep in mind just how in the dark Shadow is about what's happening with Nine.

In fact, Shadow isn't privy to anything happening in the prism chamber for a while. He didn't see Sonic and Nine's interaction, didn't watch Nine power Sonic up with the shard energy, Sonic didn't give him a detailed answer on how he got stronger and who was involved (only that he "got a power up"), Shadow doesn't see Nine power Sonic up to defeat the prismatic Titan, and Shadow–

Pause.

That scene in the final episode. You know, the one where Sonic returns after defeating the prismatic titan, Nine says that they were just using the blueprint to figure out what shards went where so they could complete the prism, and Sonic asserts they've actually been doing it to fix Green Hill? The part where Sonic and Nine disagree over whether it's possible to fix Green Hill, whether they should fix what was or move on and create a new home?

The part where Sonic accidentally implies Nine isn’t real to him?

A scene in which Shadow would be able to clearly see Nine's motivations?

The ENTIRE lead up to Nine taking the shards and deciding to leave Sonic behind?

Yeah ha ha...ha...ahah...

Shadow doesn't see any of that. You want to know when Shadow arrives? What he sees?

All he sees is Nine with all the shards at the edge of a portal, Sonic trying to get him to stay and Nine leaving (choosing not to trust Sonic). Practically all Shadow sees of Nine and Sonic interacting while they don't know he's there is Nine "betraying" Sonic and stealing the shards. He misses the entire complicated conversation and everything that lead up to the event.

Again, Shadow misses any nuance and any context that might allow him to see Nine more as he is. Nine leaving with the shards, betraying them and blowing off Sonic's attempts to appeal to him? It just feeds right back into Shadow's existing bias against Nine.

Shadow didn't trust Nine. He thought Sonic was naive for choosing to trust Nine. He felt that Nine didn't share the same goals as him.

Of course Nine steals the shards, betrays Sonic (who'd believed in and trusted him so so much, Shadow knows), and leaves them to die. Shadow already thought the variants were practically designed to make him and Sonic suffer, and what best to make Sonic suffer by having his trust broken by a fake wearing the face of his best friend, right?

Shadow did not have proof or real reason to believe Nine to be evil or planning to betray Sonic. He didn't even have half the physical proof Rebel and Renegade had when they decided Nine was traitorous. Shadow just always felt that Nine couldn't be trusted, and frustrated and annoyed for some reason that Sonic didn't agree.

Does this make Shadow a good judge of Nine's character? Was Shadow really right because he was seeing the signs all along, or was it because everything that happened just so happened to line up with his pre-existing bias (like back when Chaos Sonic implied Nine was involved with the trap, and Renegade assumed that Nine had set up the entire trap because of course the "traitorous fox" would)?

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For now, let's move on to the last point of view. How does Sonic see Nine? Is Sonic really just some naive hedgehog who trusted a fox—a fox who was clearly always planning to betray him—just because he wore the face of his missing best friend? Up until the end of season 2, did Sonic just refuse to see or miss all the red flags—all the signs that Nine was always going to betray him in the end?

Let's start from the very beginning. Season 1 Episode 1: Shattered.

What not a single person can overstate is how Sonic’s initial perception of every variant and their character is heavily rooted in his own bias. In this case the "bias" at hand is Sonic either assuming the variants are one of his original friends (like when he thought Nine was just Tails who had forgotten him), or somehow connected to them. In my Sonine Prime essay series I have talked a few times during S1 about how Sonic is largely going through Season 1 trying to guess what's happening around him with his limited knowledge of everything at hand, his lack of knowledge of the genre he's in, and his scrambling to explain things without there being someone like Tails to understand it for him. At first he believes Nine is Tails but missing some of his important memories. Then he believes that Nine, Rusty, Rebel, and Renegade are just his friends but "messed up" (still with the idea that they don't remember him). Then he realizes that there are multiple variants and comes to the conclusion that they are all part of the originals or contain pieces of the original deep down. Sonic’s idea of the reality of the variants continues to change until he at baseline believes they are all their own real people.

But where does Nine fit into all this? Just how much does Sonic's original perception of him as "just Tails" affect how he sees Nine by the end or season 2? Does Sonic actually just 100% see him as a replacement for Tails rather than his own person?

Well, I can answer that last question now if you wish. The answer is no, but the entire thing is eh...complicated.

In Episode 1 of Sonic Prime, after participating in an entire fight scene against Nine (who he believes to be Tails fighting him for some reason or Tails who doesn't remember him and home), Sonic explains what he knows of Tails' backstory. In return, Nine reacts as if Sonic knows details about him that no one should know, but then goes on to explain what actually happened to him. Sonic, of course, begins to have a reaction based on this.

I will remind you that, at this point in time, Sonic believes that Eggman succeeded in taking over Green Hill. He believes that this is is home, and that Nine, Rebel, Renegade, etc are his original friends.

"...Doesn't make sense. You are Tails, but– you're not... Here, but...gone?"

As of here through to the end of Episode 3, we have reason to believe that Sonic believes that Nine is Tails. He does his best to recognize Nine's preferred name, but he makes a number of references to getting the prism and "fixing all of this", refers to the New Yoke variants as "messed up yous", and at times even acts as if the variants should be/are like his original friends (as we see from the scene he starts introducing the variants under the names and traits of the originals). He quite literally believes that Nine is just Tails without his memories of Sonic. He thinks he just needs to stop eggman, get the prism, and make his "friends" remember.

While I will emphasize how much it makes sense that Sonic would approach the New Yoke variants initially with this conclusion, it will unfortunately affect how he perceives Nine forever.

In Season 2 Episode 6, Sonic returns to New Yoke. Rebel and Renegade are angry at him for leaving them behind, and (as we covered in the Rebel and Renegade section) they consider Sonic and Nine to be traitors. However, while Rebel and Renegade (understandably) label Sonic and Nine as traitors for the betrayal they witnessed, Sonic is...surprised when he learns that Nine made off with the shard.

"I didn't steal the shard!"

"But your fox friend did. Right before he left us high and dry."

"He...did?"

I'm going to refrain into digging too far into how Sonic sees Tails (as dredging up the evidence would be another essay), but, in short, we know that Tails is his best friend. Tails is smart, he helps fight Eggman for the greater good, and he'd never leave a friend behind, right?

By this episode, Sonic has shifted his idea of the variants already. He no longer thinks Nine or Rebel or Renegade are just his original friends missing their memories, but we know that he feels as if there are pieces or traits of his friends who reside in all the variants deep down. He tries to talk like Amy and get Thorn to be a "good friend" and make up with everyone. He tries to appeal to Dread and get him to join the crew's search for the blue shard, referring to that stubborn loyalty of Knuckles'.

So Sonic has already created an idea of Nine based upon his idea of Tails. Sure Nine is "a bit angsty" and a loner, but he'd never leave any friends behind or leave people in danger, would he?

Tails would never just leave everyone behind, and Sonic doesn’t want to believe that Nine would or to believe the worst of him. So to Sonic...it must all be some huge misunderstanding, right? Sonic will prove that he and Nine aren’t traitors. When he finds Nine there has to be a reasonable explanation for why he made off with the red shard and left Rebel, Rusty, and Renegade to the council's mercy.

Nine is Sonic's friend, and Sonic believes that Tails is in him deep down here. He refuses to believe that Nine is evil or doesn't care about others.

"If they get that energy crystal back, we're done for."

"Nine won't let that happen!"

...

"I'm sorry I wasn't there when you needed me. But I'm not a traitor and neither is Nine. Let me prove it to you. Let me fight by your side."

He thinks so highly of Nine and believes in the good in him. Most of us agree that this is because of Sonic comparing Nine to Tails and because of how he initially started trying to pull Nine into the intelligent little buddy role. But...is this all because of Tails? Is it–?

Let's take a step back for a moment. Remember how in the previous sections I talked about the character's pre-existing biases and how Nines actions would coincidentally fit into these biases, and how I've emphasized what it is the characters actually have seen?

Well, here's the truth of the situation. Sonic didn't see Nine abandon Rebel, Renegade, and Rusty. While they're clearly angry, he has no clue what actually occured, how Nine acted, and he refuses to assume that Nine grabbed the shard and just split. And when you hear that someone you've already decided to trust (even though Sonic later updates his idea of Nine as his own person, it's due to Sonic's existing bias towards Tails that he trusted Nine in the first place) has done something awful, you'd want to see that proof or know the context. You'd want to hear what happened from the one you trust. And here's another truth about the situation. Nine up to this point has never betrayed Sonic. After they talked in the scareport after their battle, had a heart to heart, Nine proved he was no longer hostile to Sonic. Nine gave him the regulators and helped him with his little running issue. Although Nine had no way to save him when Sonic was about to be blasted back at the Yoke, when Rebel and Renegade swooped in to fight, Nine freed Sonic at his first available chance. During that entire adventure in the Yoke through to episode 3, Sonic has seen Nine work together with the others as they fight for a singular goal. Even when Nine suggested they leave the others behind to get the shard, Rebel tells Sonic the same thing right afterwards.

Aside from hearsay, Sonic (by Episode 6 of Season 1) has no reason to believe that Nine is a traitor. Nine assisting with the fight in the Yoke, helping him out—all of this feeds right back into the idea Sonic has of Nine's character. He reasonably feared that Nine would keep attacking him in episode 1 after the battle, and he reasonably believed that Nine baseline cared about the well-beings of others.

Let's look at Sonic's talks with Nine in S1 E6 after Nine picks him up from New Yoke.

(For the record, as I've already taken up quite a lot of your time here, I'm going to try to be as concise as I can with this section. But if you'd like to read a more in depth analysis of Nine and Sonic during this scene I've done, you can read Sonine Prime Part 6 here.)

As I said, Nine helping out in the battle before he picks up Sonic just feeds into Sonic's pre-existing bias. Nine very clearly only came to pick Nine up from New Yoke so he could take him to the Grim (and that's pretty much what he does the moment Sonic jumps into his cockpit). Sonic, however, already asserted to Rebel and Renegade that Nine is not a traitor and that this battle for the existence of the resistance and the citizens' hope in a better future will allow him to prove that neither he and Nine are traitorous. He doesn't know where Nine is exactly before he shows up, nor does he have real reason to believe Nine will show up during this fight, but Sonic was extremely happy Nine did. Likewise, Nine doesn't know any details about the resistance's fight with the Chaos Council. He has no real reason to believe that Sonic will just go with him and leave during the battle, but he's also very happy to see Sonic and to take Sonic's attention.

So while Nine came to New Yoke to pick up Sonic, Sonic assumed Nine came to join the fight, to help the rebels fight for a better future, and to clear their names. He's assuming that Nine shares the same intentions as him and has the same general idea of what "a good person" would do that he projects onto Nine. As for Nine, he also just kind of assumed Sonic would go along with him. When talking about the Grim to Sonic, he emphasizes that it's a clean slate, he appeals to Sonic's wish for home by talking about how it can be a new home for the two of them. In addition, he also has an idea of a "good person" he projects onto Sonic, given how he tries to appeal to that assumed nature by talking about how the two of them can create a "better world" (as opposed to New Yoke, a city that only brought Nine misery, that Nine has no hope for).

Plus, as the two traverse the area between the shatterspaces, they play tug of war with the conversation at hand. Sonic talks to Nine about how they really should get back to New Yoke to help the rebels (they're fighting an incredibly important battle at the moment). Specifically he says "we should get back" (emphasis on the "we"), and talks as if he's trying to remind Nine why they should be fighting right now and why that matters.

As for Nine, especially because he's pretty detached and doesn't know or care of the extent of what's going on in New Yoke, he keeps steering the conversation towards The Grim and what he's discovered about the shards. He keeps emphasizing that this is about creating home for the both of them together, and he also talks like he's trying to remind Sonic of "their" goals and why the creation of home here matters.

It's also worth mentioning here that Nine both does not know the extent of what's happening in New Yoke (because he wasn't there with Sonic, he didn't meet the full resistance, he doesn't know about the palm tree or the specifics of that fight of the future) and doesn't really care. He also isn't malicious about it either. He's not acting like everyone in New Yoke deserves to suffer and he's purposely leaving them there to suffer. Rather, he responds to Sonic's attempts to convince him to go back to New Yoke with him and fight by talking about how the city brought him misery and he doesn’t owe it anything. He's taking a neutral stance of "That city was not my home. It hurt me and it brought me only misery. I'm not going to go out of my way to destroy it or hurt people there. As long as people there leave me alone, then I will leave it alone. It's the city's problem if it's hurtling towards destruction, not mine."

These two are just focusing on completely different things—specifically things they emotionally invested themselves in and placed their focus in before the two met again in S1 E6. And yeah! Maybe how Nine acts during this scene should have been enough to tell Sonic that Nine doesn't care about New Yoke or saving every little person in danger. Nine does make it pretty clear that he only cares about his goal of creating a new home and better world for himself and Sonic. However, Sonic is the kind of hedgehog that not only believes in Nine's capacity for "goodness" (or how Sonic personally believes one has to be to be a "good person"), but that Nine has to be a "good person". Even before he'd accepted Nine as his own person that isn't just Tails, he'd formed that solid idea of Nine's character as someone who would naturally help people in need, and he doesn’t want to admit that the idea he has of Nine in his head is wrong.

But, even with all of that in mind, is any of this really proof or "red flags" that Nine would betray Sonic all along? Sure Sonic's ignoring here in the Grim that Nine doesn't care about New Yoke or the resistance all that much, but does Nine ever give any indication that he's just using Sonic to get the shards and was planning on exerting control over the shatterverse?

No.

Nine is happy to see Sonic. We know from S2 E7 that he very genuinely had integrated Sonic into his plans, very seriously planned to create a new home to live in with Sonic (so he wasn't lying about it). He already had two prism shards and was already experimenting with using them to alter reality in the Grim, and gave no indication he wanted more. He could have continued to shape the Grim to his will, but instead he brought Sonic there so they could do it together. When Sonic seemingly rejects his proposal to create a new world together, he seems disappointed, acts like he's been rejected, helps Sonic get back to New Yoke.

Nothing about that screams power hungry fox trying to hurt people on purpose. He got exactly what he needed (a couple shards and Sonic), and if he'd had his way right then, they would have just created a home in the Grim.

All the fox wanted was to be left alone and to be home.

During this scene, how can Sonic miss "red flags" that Nine has been "secretly evil all along" that aren't even there?

Sonic's only crime is trying to hold onto the exact idea he has of Sonic as a "good person" by his own standards. And frankly, even when Sonic relents and goes to New Yoke without him, he makes it so clear that he just knows Nine will come back to fight with him, just like he knew Nine would come to help earlier (even if Nine had only actually come for him).

After their battle in S1 E1, Nine had a heart to heart with him. Nine created the regulators and helped Sonic control the energy bursting from him. Nine helped him and the rebels escape captivity/danger while they were in the Yoke, and assisted in keeping the others from harm as they all fought together. He came right in the nick of time to turn the tide of the battle for a minute in E6 of S1. And even after making it clear to the audience that he doesn’t care about New Yoke, and pushing against Sonic's internalized idea of his character, he still comes back for Sonic.

Even if he only comes back to join the fight so he can give Sonic another chance to pursue his (Nine's) goals, his coming back feeds right back into Sonic's pre-existing bias. After all, he knew Nine would come, didn't he?

Let's even go further into S2. Sonic learns that Nine got captured, and Nine makes this clear as well. He tells Sonic that he's going to use his vantage point to work the council from the inside. Both are aware of how dangerous it is for the Chaos Council to have access to so much shard energy. From the little contact Sonic has with Nine during most of this season, Nine situates himself as Sonic's inside helper and giving him direction. This is why he believes him when "Nine" leads them into the Yoke for a trap, and that's why he believes the real Nine when he leads him through the Yoke building in a plan to get rid of Chaos Sonic.

To Sonic, Nine always comes through for him, whether it's for fighting, giving him insider information, or giving him directions/plans/helping things make sense to him.

If Sonic just let himself see it, he would notice that Nine doesn't really care about anyone else but himself and Sonic, and he would know what Nine's actual goals were. Assuming that Nine naturally followed his same goals and acts regarding other people "like the real Tails would", that was Sonic's folly. That's where he was being naive and only taking in evidence that fit his bias of Nine as a good person.

But that doesn't change the fact that Nine did help people out, did help out Sonic. He prioritized his own goals over others' well-being in E6 of S1, and when he left Renegade, Rusty, and Rebel behind, but he did not do so without hesitation. It doesn't change the fact that he helped Sonic out and that Sonic had no reason to believe Nine was using him for his own purposes, because even when Nine made his true character and his goals clear, he always genuinely wanted Sonic at his side. And it doesn't change the fact that even when Nine was frustrated at Sonic, he still stuck up for Sonic. He still convinced the Chaos Council not to kill him outright. He still risks his position and safety to help Sonic, even in the face of being killed for doing so. He feels guilt and remorse for being the reason Sonic was led into a trap and attacked by Chaos Sonic. He expresses this guilt to the Chaos Council (as they jab and jeer and he goes "what have I done?"), and he expresses it to Sonic, who reiterates the trust he has in Nine.

What I'm getting at here is that Sonic’s problem was always how he didn't fully see Nine as he was, and how he just assumed Nine would go along with whatever he thought and wanted. Nine's criticism at the end of S2 was not a baseless one. However, his problem was never that he trusted Nine. No matter the place his trust in Nine began from, Sonic has never had any reason to distrust him, and, in fact, only grew to trust him more over time and Nine helped him out and proved that he cared about his well-being.

Sonic thinks Nine will go along with his goals because he's "just like Tails" and kind of assumes so.

Sonic sees "the good" in Nine and trusts that Nine is his friend because he's gotten to know Nine a bit better over time. Actions speak loud, and it says a lot that Nine continues to aid him and very specifically wants to be with him.

ㅤ

Now, in the interest of not going on for too much longer, I'm not going to go piece by piece through every Nine scene to dissect exactly who he is as a person and why. Nine's exact character is an essay for another time. So for now, let's keep in mind just what we can see of Nine in the show (and in contrast to what other characters think of him).

I'm going to pose a question or two. Has Nine the Fox been secretly evil all along? Has everyone else been seeing the signs while Sonic has been blind because he doesn't want to believe "Tails" could be evil?

And now, from what we've gone over so far, here's some of what we know about Nine:

Nine isn’t the type to hurt people for no reason or out of malicious intent. He attacks in self defense and generally just wants to be left alone. Thus, if you leave Nine alone, he won't go out of his way to mess with you.

He doesn’t care about others to an extent. If he's already involved in an event, he will help out if people are in danger. However, he always pursues his goals first. He ultimately hesitates when he sees Rebel, Renegade, and Rusty captured, but ultimately chooses to secure making it out alive and with the shard over risking losing either to assist these three.

He cares very deeply about Sonic. Even when he's clearly frustrated or disappointed or says that he's not friends with Sonic, his actions show otherwise. He wanted to build a new home with Sonic, and he risked his own well-being to help Sonic in S2.

He trusts Sonic back. He believes in his ability to overcome anything, even when the Chaos Council is throwing more and more terrible robots at Sonic and trying to convince Nine that it's not worth putting faith in him.

Others actually try to convince both Sonic and Nine during the runtime of S1 and S2 that the other shouldn't/can't be trusted, and that it's idiotic to place their trust in each other. These are scenes that genuinely end up showing that each plans to stay on the other's side and features them sticking up for each other.

Nine doesn't care about others, but not in a malicious manner. He aspires to be left alone and to his own devices, to which he will leave others alone and to their own devices. Even when he's alone and not in Sonic's presence, he never expresses a wish to exert control over the shatterverse and to be its god (essentially trying to make it all better). He only wants to create his ideal home with Sonic away from everything that hurt him.

He rejects the idea that he is exactly like Tails.

He actively seeks and even becomes smug/happy when he gets Sonic's attention. Being considered Sonic's friend or even a best friend is important to him.

The only ulterior motive he ever presents in helping out Sonic is when doing so allows him to get the home he desires, a desire that he includes Sonic in on for the bulk of the runtime. Essentially, he sees Sonic as a collaborator in a goal that includes them both.

So now, I pose the question to you reading this. Has Nine the fox been secretly evil all along?

Personally, I think not. He's not a "good person", but to be evil one has to have a specific kind of malicious intent. You can argue that the Chaos Council are evil because they act in self interest, knowingly oppress the mobians in New Yoke, and don't care what they have to do or who they have to kill to get what they want. They are aware of what they are doing and that they are hurting people, and actively choose to do "evil" deeds because they want to.

Nine acts in his own self interest, he doesn't go out of his way to be a hero to others, he doesn't care what becomes of the other shatterspaces, but he doesn't go out of his way to just oppress or hurt people. He doesn't attack people or leave them to die for the enjoyment of it. He's not outright acting evil with intentions to commit evil deeds, but he never claims to be a hero either. He's a morally grey fox who acts in his own self interest who just wants a real home, and just wants to be safe.

But all in all I ask this to you because I wonder genuinely. What of Nine's actions during these two seasons betray that he's just "what if Tails was evil"? Does acting in one's self interest or selfishly, even if you believe it's for a good cause and if you don't go out of your way to hurt people, make you an inherently evil person?

Has everyone else been seeing the signs while Sonic has been blind because he doesn't want to believe "Tails" could be evil?

Renegade, Rebel, Shadow, etc. They all don't trust Nine.

But with I've gone over so far re:their povs and what they've seen and know of Nine, have all of these people been seeing something Sonic has been missing? Have they not just been doing the same thing Sonic has been (in this case, forming an idea of them based upon first impressions and continuing to paint that person in a specific light because of how their continued experiences with that person fit their pre-existing biases)? They've had less run ins with Nine than Sonic has. What makes their gut instincts and povs more valuable than Sonic's pov of Nine (or the chaos council in s1 and s2 for that matter)?

What is it even that they're seeing that Sonic is missing? Is it that Nine cares more about creating a home within the Grim than saving people or being a hero, or even more than some goal of bringing back Green Hill (even at the expense of the shatterverse and his life)?

Sure, Sonic doesn’t want to believe Nine could be evil. Heck, he doesn't even want to believe that his idea of Nine as someone who would put his life on the line for those in danger and help people when he can is false.

But what? What exactly is it that he's missing? What are the "red flags" Sonic is "ignoring" in these two seasons that "prove" Nine has been evil all along? What was Sonic missing that proves Nine was always planning on betraying him?

ㅤ

It's all food for thought my friends.

Anyways, if you've read up to this point, thank you so much! I know it's a long one, but it means a lot to me that you'd take the time to read my thoughts and analysis. In the end, the point of this essay is that I implore you all to think of how the characters see each other. The creators put genuine thought into these characters, how they act based on what happens to them, and how they act based upon what they could possibly know from their povs. I implore you to consider why certain characters assert things they do. I implore you to think why Nine would have betrayed Sonic at the end of S2, why Sonic would have trusted him, and for what reason other characters may not have trusted him. I implore you to think of Nine not as a twist villain, but to think of how he actually is and what might push a person to this point.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

#sonic prime #sonic the hedgehog #shadow the hedgehog #the chaos council #mr dr eggman #dr done it #dr babble #dr deep #dr don't #renegade knucks #rebel rouge #sonic prime season 2 #sonic prime season 1 #nine sonic prime #miles nine prower #nine the fox #essay time #i just be ramblin #Fun fact! While I have been wanting to write this essay for a while‚ I actually finally broke down and wrote it BECAUSE it hit me again tha #Shadow missed the entire breaku– I mean. Uh. He missed most of the scene where Nine and Sonic broke u– I mean #uh dissolved their friendship. I was just consumed with thoughts over Shadow missing so much context even while I was seeing people assert #that Shadow knew what was happening regarding Nine all along #Oh also. Yes I have seen season 3. However‚ I wrote most of this up before S3 came out. So this essay only covers up to the end of season 2 #Maybe at some point I'll make a reblog or a second post where I do the same thing I did here but for the characters in S3 and how #they view Nine.#long post #Also if you've just read the post and You'd like to read more in depth looks on how Nine and Sonic see each other and why they would‚ I'd #give my Sonine prime series a shot. Yes it's focused on the shippy aspect‚ by a shipper‚ but one main purpose of it is to present the #complexities of these characters and just how integral understanding their general relationship/importance to each other is to the show #(romantic‚ platonic‚ whatever)

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therealvinelle · 3 years

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Vinelle (and muffin since I know they'll see this too~!), I don't know if you guys have made a post ranking the Twilight books and why (including Bree and L&D if applicable) but I'd love to hear your opinions! (also if you could rank the Twi movies from least worst to most worst and why that'd be awesome too! 030 hi key love your rants on the movies and would love to hear y'alls thoughts more on them)-Sw

You’ve caught us out, anon.

And thanks to you, we spent last night watching Breaking Dawn Part 2 so we could rank it. @theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin hadn’t seen it at all, while I half-remembered it from years ago. A terrible time was had because that movie was unwatchably bad.

Since this ask was sent jointly, our answer was co-written.

So, without further ado, movies first:

1. Twilight

This is a bad movie, but it’s recognizably a movie. The scenes are connected, there are things it did well, and we could tell you what the plot is. The awkwardness, for instance, is very well done. The weaknesses are glaring, the main one being that the film never sells us on the characters of Bella and Edward, nor on their relationship, relying instead on the audience knowing they’re in love because- well, they’re in love.

Diving deeper into Edward and Bella, there’s an understandable explanation for this. Edward of the books is terrifying, and I don’t think there’s a translation to screen that could have kept the romantic atmosphere surrounding him that we see from Bella’s point of view.

Bella can listen to Edward eating Biology and how he explains that it means how much he loves her and not blink. An actual audience hearing that dialogue will have second thoughts.

Right out of the gate, Twilight has a very difficult task: Salvage Edward Cullen while still producing a somewhat recognizable character who will take the same actions (or near the same actions) that Edward Cullen did in the book.

In the effort to make Edward palatable but save some of his original character he loses his more terrifying lines (as well as his hilarious ego) but becomes weird, awkward, and vaguely creepy. Edward Cullen of the films is that weird, friendless guy in your high school who you feel kind of bad for but don’t want to eat lunch with.

Bella faces a similar transformation. Bella’s insecurity is completely removed (or else the screenwriters somehow failed to notice it). As a result, we get this strange antisocial girl who is too cool for school because she’s a stuck up bitch.

Between Edward, this creepy guy who sits next to her in Biology, and Bella, this girl who enters school too good for everyone else, we see no reason why they would ever be interested in one another.

In an attempt to make these characters likeable they made them both unlikeable and boring. The film series as a whole never recovers from this (indeed, the quest to make Edward look good keeps leading to stranger and stranger places).

It also forgets to explain why the Cullens live among humans, they’re attending high school… because. It’s a movie that explained to us all those terrible 2010 era memes and “still a better love story than Twilight”. And frankly, those memes were great, better than the movie. Case in point.

Everything is weirdly blue, which is atmospheric but also makes everything and everyone washed out. Everyone is super pale, so you have Mike looking just as vampire-y as Edward. However, it’s recognizably a movie. It introduces the characters, recognizes that the audience needs to be informed of things that are important to the plot, and most scenes are in some way connected to the plot. This is more than can be said for the other films, which is why it lands the top slot.

2. Eclipse

Eclipse earns its second place by process of elimination. The remaining three were worse. Eclipse also features Edward being cuckolded mercilessly, which is hilarious. Oh, and Victoria playing Riley, that was another beautiful scene.

Apart from that it’s just a deeply boring, borderline unwatchable movie.

Special shoutouts go to:

The opening scene of Riley getting turned, a ridiculous and poorly executed scene that served no purpose for the movie whatsoever.

Rosalie dropping her backstory without any context, Bella walks up to her and Rosalie launches into this horrific story for no particular reason. Both her and Jasper’s backstories could have been cut, as they served no purpose to the story and felt really thrown in there.

The many, many redundant scenes. The Victoria chase that ends with the Cullens and Quileutes squabbling could have been cut entirely. So too could the Seattle subplot with the newborns and Bree.

It’s a movie that isn’t about anything in particular, so it throws subplot spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. It dutifully regurgitates the Jacob/Bella/Edward love triangle while also trying to convey that Bella’s about to lose her mortality, while also trying to introduce suspense and excitement with the newborns. It fails to execute either of these, and it also fails to tie them together.

3. New Moon

The movie that wanted to skip itself.

This movie had two jobs, show that Bella is depressed when Edward leaves and convince the audience of Bella and Jacob’s strong friendship. And apart the rotating shots and the occasional Stewart voiceover, the former becomes one of those “just stay with us on this one, guys” failures, and the second is failed on every level. Jake and Bella are much closer at the beginning of this movie than they were in canon, and a montage of Bella hanging out with her buddy is just that, it’s a montage of Bella hanging out with her buddy. It speaks volumes that Stewart’s voiceover has to remind us she’s depressed and Jacob is helping her heal, because there’s no indicator on screen that this is happening.

This, in turn, makes Bella/Jake as weak and unconvincing as Bella/Edward was in the previous movie. We just have to take on faith that these people are important to each other because that’s what we’re told.

There’s also the wolves, who are completely butchered. In the books, there’s this great mystery with bears in the woods, there’s Bella wondering why Laurent ran off, there’s build-up, then when we find out what’s actually been happening it’s a satisfying explanation, all the pieces come together really nicely. This is not the case in the movie. Meeting the pack is just weird in this context, because we never wondered who they were. Bella is randomly invited to breakfast, we meet Emily with the scarred face who won’t ever have a line again, and that’s it, these characters don’t become important to the movie in any way. It’s a pointless scene that could have been cut, much like so many other scenes in these movies.

Apart from that, the Volturi scene from the books is butchered so I hardly recognize it, and Alice, Carlisle, and Edward’s characters are assassinated to an impressive degree considering they were barely in the movie.

It was hard to watch.

It lands third place because somehow, Breaking Dawn was worse.

4. Breaking Dawn Part Two

I’ll just list the positives: the intro was very pretty and promised a better movie. It was also long, which we appreciated because it took away from the movie’s runtime. (This is not at all an exaggeration, a lot of the time watching all five movies was spent looking at the remaining runtime and groaning.) The Tommy Wiseau sex scene in the sex cabin was uncomfortable, but the fact that it would have fit perfectly in The Room made it funny. The Romanians were genuinely, unironically, great, because of all of Carlisle’s trashy friends, these were the only ones the movie didn’t try to convince us weren’t trashy.

This movie ranks above Breaking Dawn Part One because of the things listed above.

Apart from that, something all of these movies, but especially the last four, suffer from is that they don’t have plots so much as they have a check list of things to put in the movie before they can call it a wrap. This movie is the worst offender of that, and it’s made worse by the film’s expectation that the people are fans who already know what’s happening, and therefore don’t need anything explained. I’ll explain what we mean by that.

We get Bella waking up a vampire, and absolutely nothing is explained. If you don’t know what happened in the last movie then fuck you. Bella then goes hunting, we get the hiker, we get the mountain lion, she goes back to meet Renesmée, finds out Jake imprinted on her daughter, we get the sex cabin, the handwrestling with Emmett. The Charlie problem is introduced (poorly), only to be solved a scene later with emotional payoff that had absolutely no buildup. All of these things, and the rest of the movie as well for that matter, feels like we’re just crossing items off a list.

Since the audience is expected to already know the story, the story only bothers to explain about half of what’s happening, if half. Who’s the lady living with Charlie? If you don’t know, don’t worry because it’s not important anyway. When did Kate and Garrett fall in love? If you don’t care, that's understandable, because they’ve barely interacted in the movie. Who are the Amazonian women? Do they have names? Don’t worry about it. Did Alistair actually leave, if so did that have an impact? Well, Bella stared at a window for a few seconds.

Every so often the characters will start quoting the books, and it’ll be completely out of place because these movies veered off course long ago. Carlisle references his great friendship with Aro, a friendship that was only briefly mentioned at the beginning of the second movie. Aro randomly starts talking about how scary human technology is.

All of these scenes feel like Marcus is telling the story, he’s just listing events waiting for the story to be over, and forgets a lot of pertinent details because he doesn’t care enough to remember them. There’s no effort to tie these scenes together, no effort to build up to anything.

There’s also one significant failure, and this is a failure shared by all five films, but it affects the plot (I use the term “plot” loosely) of this movie which is why it gets a special shoutout here. Vampires in these movies look human. The fact that Bella has to ask Edward is Gianna the secretary is human says it all, because in the books you know instantly, there’s not even a question. This makes the Charlie subplot ridiculous, because Bella looks and acts the same as ever. She had a trashy makeover, maybe, but she’s still Bella. Watching her get human acting classes after we watched her act perfectly human is just silly. Now, we’re all for suspension of belief, but this movie just pencil drew a moustache on her and the audience is supposed to go “My god, Bella, I didn’t recognize you!”

We then get to the atrocious fight scene, which was somehow worse than I remembered. It was also oddly long for a giant fake out. This scene took significant run time and it turns out to have 0 effect on the plot. And when we get back to the real world, the tonal shift is extreme. You can’t go from Jane being choked, dragged across the snow and face eaten by a wolf to her standing around chilling. We could have skipped it entirely, just had Alice touch Aro’s hand, and he goes “Ah, I see, cheerio.”

The end credits were pretty funny, “here are these random characters with bit parts in previous movies, isn’t this nostalgic?”. Nice try, movie. The fact this came after an extended clip show of the great romance of Edward and Bella, through blurry montage images that failed to be convincing in their original films let alone this one, just made it even more hilarious. Hope you didn’t completely ruin the director’s career, though honestly you should a bit.

5. Breaking Dawn Part One

As you can probably tell by the above entries, the fact that this is the worst one is really saying something. All the movies were hard to watch, but this one required pure strength of will to power through.

The big issue is that Breaking Dawn shouldn’t have been split in the first place. However, it was, and that meant that we got a movie that was almost entirely filler. (Followed, somehow, by a movie that was also largely filler.)

We get everybody preparing for the wedding. What do Mike and Jessica think of Bella and Edward getting married? What’s that, you don’t care? Well, now you know anyway. We get the full wedding, as in the whole fucking thing, including the afterparty. We get Bella and Edward traveling to their island, and there’s filler in the filler where they go clubbing in Rio. We then get every minute detail of the wedding night followed by every minute detail of the honeymoon.

There’s fanservice, and then there’s this. This was live action fanfiction.

NOTHING that in any way is relevant to the story happens, the closest we get is Irina looking stoned. Too bad the Denali’ refusal to help out in Eclipse was cut from the last movie, in fact I’m not sure they were mentioned at all previously in these movies (I think maybe Edward had a one-line reference in Twilight?) so this means nothing to people who haven’t read the books.

We then get to the pregnancy arc, which could have been Rosemary’s Baby but is instead as outrageously boring as the first half of the movie was. The director must have realized as much, because he gives us Jacob’s alpha plot that should have been cut from the movie (yes, I know it was in the books, but the thing about adaptations is that things have to go. For the record, I think Meyer should have cut it too). That subplot was straight out of an anime, by the way. Jacob claiming his ancestral rights as alpha while listing off his titles and the soaring music, was… every shounen anime, ever. Complete with the shitty voice acting.

It was a soul-crushingly boring movie.

Something that screws over the last four movies is that they were made to feed the fangirls, and generate revenue because the producers knew the fans were coming to watch the books they liked come to life, so they just had to throw scenes from the books and into the movies and let the magic happen. This is a terrible way to adapt something.

Special shoutout too to having to watch Taylor Lautner run around shirtless in four out of five movies. That was very uncomfortable and none of us needed that in our lives, Lautner included.

Super special shoutout to the fact that we disagree with nearly all the casting.

And this isn’t the post for that, but all of the characters were butchered. Some more than others, and some more insidiously than others. It’s the big things, like Carlisle’s character being turned on its head since he thinks all vampires are damned, exactly the opposite of what he thinks in the books, and the little things, like Jasper and Bella being buddies who bicker fondly in New Moon.

Then the books:

1. Midnight Sun

HANDS DOWN. This is easily our favorite thing to come out of the entire Twilight franchise.

Edward is every kind of crazy at the same time, all the time, and it makes every single sentence packed with delirious entertainment. Reading this book is having a stroke, a psychotic episode, and watching five different true crime shows all at once. We adore every letter of it. (That’s no exaggeration, we even laughed about Edward capitalizing “Son” when Carlisle refers to him as “son” in conversation.)

The book was more than we’d dared to hope for, one of those rare books that makes you go “This was written just for me.”

2. Twilight

The one that started it all.

Vampires are wonderfully creepy. Things like Bella staring at Carlisle acting like the mundane town doctor shortly after learning just how old he is, Alice explaining how vampires kill all, and the uncanny valley perfection of the Cullens all add to the otherness of these vampires, and the general atmosphere of the book.

The love story is convincing. Edward seen through the eyes of Bella is wonderful, the red flags are there but if it weren’t for the books that followed we wouldn’t have decried the ship the way we do.

3. Eclipse

Breaking Dawn is the more interesting book, but Eclipse has less things we outright don’t like. We get to know all the characters better, Edward and Bella are their usual beautiful selves, and it’s overall peak Twilight.

4. Breaking Dawn

Would have ranked much higher, we like what it did. Without it we wouldn’t be in this fandom now, as it brought so much amazing content. The baby plot is fine by us, Carlisle’s friends are great, the Volturi confrontation is a beautiful, if bleak culmination of preventable events. There’s a lot of great stuff in this book.

Unfortunately, and there’s just no diplomatic way to put this, so I’ll just come out with it: there’s too much Jacob.

He no longer had a reason to be in the story, given the way Eclipse ended he had every reason not to be in it. In spite of that we get an entire third of the book from his point of view, and then damned if he’s not shoehorned into the last third as well. He added absolutely nothing to the story, he was just there taking up space and being possessive of a toddler. His POV section was tough to get through, and his presence in book three was just painful. He should have been cut.

5. New Moon

This was the book we had to power through. There are some very good things in it, most notably the Volturi scene, but the Muffin and I enjoy Twilight for the vampires, and that makes Laurent and Hallucination!Edward the highlights of the part of the book where Edward is gone.

There’s also the fact that Jacob isn’t a very compelling character. He has to carry the book now that the Cullens aren’t doing it, and he simply isn’t up for it.

Yes, we’re aware that these books are ranked according to how much Jacob is in them. We don’t even hate him, not at all, it’s just that he’s boring.

(That being said, the books at their worst are better than the movies at their best. Jacob narrating his perfect playdate with Renesmée would still be preferable to… I’m trying to think of a good scene from the movies. Hm, nevermind.)

As for The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner and Life and Death, only I have read Bree Tanner and I don’t remember it well enough to give a proper assessment. I was bored with the OCs, though, bored to tears, throughout that book I was itching for Victoria and the Cullens. We have not read Life and Death, but we’re offended by its existence so it ranks bottom.

#books vs. movies #twilight movies #twilight books #the twilight saga #twilight renaissance #twilight meta #twilight #movie review #twilight review #i'm using all the tags tonight #the carnivorous muffin #thecarnivorousmuffinmeta #Anonymous #ask #long post

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