#when they get married they’ll probably end up marrying him too tbh. even just spiritually. he probably lives with them

[iwoulddieforienzo]

Personally I think percabeth is at its best when Grover is in it. I don’t necessarily mean in a polycule way I just think it’s great when he’s around

[ryttu3k]

Doing those ship meme questions only it's the new OT3 (Beckett/Sascha/Ilias) because they're my main source of serotonin these days. Occasional appearances from Anatole and Lucita, too.

Not doing all, but there are A Lot.

1. Who's the one who's reckless and always getting into trouble while the other gotta pull em out

Beckett and Sascha actually do have a lot of braincells between them but none of them are in use for 'can sense danger'. Ilias has gained some minor common sense since his 'hey, I'm going to ask our Antediluvian for power to help face its favourite childe oh whoops I am possessed' thing and is usually the one sighing fondly and saving their asses.

2. Who's the one to send the other "I love my gf/bf" memes

Ilias. 100% Ilias. He would go out in public in a shirt saying 'I <3 Sascha' and calling them ‘my flower’ while Sascha is just pleased they can't blush any more.

3. Who's the one who listens to a music genre the other doesn't like and how does the other react

God their music tastes are all over the place. Sascha is over a thousand years old and has seen and heard A Lot. They consider the Romantic period 'modern music'. Beckett is similar albeit with about 350 years of it. Ilias got hurled from 1233 to 2004 and after a period of ??? went, "Oh, Romanian music!" and it was. Dragostea Din Tei. Like can you imagine one moment it’s 1233 and the next moment you are listening to Dragostea Din Tei. Also thanks to the language drift they only caught about a quarter of the words so it was this whole thing where he almost, almost was understanding it but the rest was just, “...what.” And that’s how Ilias discovered modern music.

Anyway yeah they’ve pretty much decided that their collective music tastes are so disparate no one is allowed to comment on them.

4. Which one spoils the other more and do they ever get competitive to show the other more love

Honestly, they all kind of spoil each other, albeit in different ways. Like Ilias will just randomly pop a handmade flower crown on Sascha’s head. Beckett will occasionally find an extremely rare book on his desk and know Sascha found it for him. Beckett always tells Sascha first when he’s found something cool so they can be the first to investigate it. And they absolutely get competitive, yeah.

5. How many years did it take to get married or was it just not for them

Sascha and Ilias have a mutual blood bond, which is more or less the equivalent of thus. Beckett has a mutual bond with Anatole, but he and Sascha have a level-2 bond.

7. Are their friends/family supportive

 Honestly, uh, Sascha and Ilias don’t really have anyone else. Beckett’s companions tend to range from, “They’re terrifying but I trust your judgment :D” (Anatole) to “hahahahahaha if Vykos harms one hair on Beckett’s head I’ll end them” (Lucita) to “WHY” (Aristotle, Okulos, most others tbh).

8. How does one comfort the other when the other is in distress/having a panic attack/crying

Sascha is the one most prone to panic attacks because trauma is a bitch and basically just... Beckett and Ilias both respond by with hugging/gentle restraint (if they’re okay with touch) or by giving them space and doing things like running a hot bath when they’re touch-averse.

9. Which one dissociates

Honestly Sascha spent most of 1234 to 2006 lowkey dissociating, which is fair when there’s literally another essence fused to yours. Post-Dracon, they still get the occasional dissociative episode, but it’s much easier to bring them back to themself.

10. Which one stares at the other's booty like “damn” and how does the other react when catching them

All three tbh. Beckett stares at Sascha, Sascha either gets a bit self-conscious or a bit ;) , depending on mood. Sascha stares at both Beckett and Ilias and gets a bit embarrassed when caught (Beckett will laugh it off, Ilias will basically be ;D). Ilias stares at both and is completely shameless about it because he may no longer be on the Path of Pleasure but he’s absolutely not going to feel ashamed for admiring his gorgeous lovers.

11. When they live together what kinda place do they live in? What does their home look like?

Beckett and Sascha travel too much for one place, honestly, and Ilias accompanies them a lot. They do have a few houses scattered throughout the world, though, including one in the Carpathians (nowhere near Brasov, tyvm). Not really as big as the monastery, it’s mostly like... big library, a few comfortable places to sleep or rest, Ilias likes having a garden these days and grows a lot of flowers.

12. What do their dates look like

Museum heists.

13. How does each act when getting drunk

Ilias gets even more handsy. Actually he can get to be a bit of a pain, but he does listen immediately if one of them tells him to tone it down. Beckett gets very enthusiastic and fired-up and a bit more feral and he’s gonna go find Enoch right now and prove Caine wasn’t real once and for all. Sascha, uh, tends to get a bit emotional and also very talkative, but can literally like. Talk their way into minor breakdowns. Basically less barriers.

14. Which one rolls over in the morning evening to wake up the other one just to kiss them

All three :3

15. Have they saved each other's lives before

Yup!

Ficverse-wise, Sascha did also save Ilias from becoming a bogatyr to the Eldest, although that was also Sascha and Beckett both saving themselves by being emotionally honest. Yeah XD

16. Does one have an interest the other think is weird but wants to listen to it regardless

Ilias’ spirituality conflicts a bit with Beckett’s... atheism, I guess? Like he’s definitely not sure he believes in the spirits that Ilias regularly works with as a Koldun, but he’s willing to keep a relatively open mind. (He’s a bit less open-minded in Sascha’s belief in - and support of - Caine, given that he’s literally based his career around the metaphor theory!)

17. Which one uses cropped hentai as reaction images

Sascha.

They have troll tendencies, okay.

18. Does one of them kinkshame the other

There is absolutely no kinkshaming here. Listen Ilias was a Priest of Jarilo. Sascha was once on the Path of Pleasure too. Beckett seduced Dracula for information then forgot to ask his question. They’re all very open about everything.

There may be teasing about the odd hobby or interest but it’s pretty lighthearted.

19. Is one of them self conscious about their body? If so how does the other comfort them

Beckett occasionally has Moments over his hands and worries about hurting Sascha or something. They basically respond by being like “are you kidding the claws are hot as hell”. On occasion, Beckett will get one of them to Vicissitude them down if he wants to use his hands more, although they’ll regrow and be achey for a night or two afterwards.

20. Say they were cuddling on the bed while listening to record player playing the background. Which song is playing?

Honestly I want to say Third Eye by Florence + the Machine just for fic reasons. When I was writing Mantle I saw it very much as Beckett towards Sascha, but it fits with Ilias towards them as well.

I have no idea how they would have discovered F+tM but anyway.

23. What kinda joyrides do they go on? Relaxing ones or wild ones?

It. I imagine it usually involves police chases. When it doesn’t Beckett will occasionally go wolf so he can stick his head out the car window like :P

Shh don’t tell anyone.

25. Do people ever get annoyed of their pda

God probably. One of the main exceptions is Anatole, who’ll basically go, “Oh! Are we cuddling?” and flop on top of Beckett.

27. Which one’s the red, which one’s the blue

They’re all red. Fear. Ilias is probably closest to blue.

28. Are either of them mentally ill, if so how do they help one another cope

Sascha has both PTSD (from Symeon and Michael, and from the Eldest) and C-PTSD (from being bound to the Dracon for literal centuries). Also depression and anxiety, which are... pretty common with those. See question 8 for some of the coping methods, the rest is just... taking each day as it comes. Like they’ve lived a very long time, but they only got free of the Dracon in 2006, so it’s still a very new thing.

Ilias has some trauma from some of the things he’s had to do to survive since waking up with the Thirst of Ages, and gets into guilt spirals on occasion. He mostly focuses on Path of Nocturnal Redemption methods to work through it; he’s kind of adverse to anyone seeing him vulnerable like that. He knows Sascha has done some awful shit, but they weren’t themself at the time so Ilias feels it doesn’t count, and Beckett is like, Humanity 6? He just doesn’t get it, so Ilias keeps it to himself.

Beckett has an odd, acquired one - his experiences in Jerusalem left him with the ability (if it could be called an ability!) to occasionally hear the Cobweb (the Malkavian Madness Network). While his connection isn’t nearly as strong as an actual Malkavian’s, he does get odd flashes of Insight; less helpfully, it can occasionally get, uh, loud in his head. This tends to ramp up a bit with proximity to Malkavians, so when he’s around Anatole, Anatole will help him filter the voices and thoughts out by teaching him meditation techniques. (Given that Anatole - correctly - feels responsible for Beckett being afflicted thus, he wants to make sure it doesn’t hit his lover too badly.)

29. Does one have a spot on them where they would melt when the other kisses them there

Give Beckett head scritchies and he’ll turn into a puddle :3

34. Are they a reckless couple or safe

*loud, prolonged laughter*

37. Do they get into fights often? If so what do they fight over and how do they make up?

Sascha and Ilias are usually... very chill; if they argue, it’s over the other’s safety, like Ilias wanting to do something reckless and Sascha being very much ‘please do not’. Sascha and Beckett argue a bit more, although thankfully they have now stopped trying to literally kill each other XD When they do, it’s usually ideological, related to Gehenna, Caine, et cetera. Sascha is still very much a part of the Sabbat, and Beckett is, well, basically an atheist.

40. Who would fight in honor for the other if someone would insult them

All three tbh. Here’s a fun bit from the novel:

Still really dig this bit from BJD, too!

No misgendering on Beckett’s watch!

42. How would one react if the other was to die

Uh.

Poorly.

Like most of Sascha’s sanity slippage was due to the Dracon’s essence being fused to their own and just how the Eldest... did that, but a good part of it was absolutely due to Ilias’ death.

43. Who dies first

...canonically, Ilias XD;;

It’s okay he gets better.

[him-e]

if jon survives the war, would you expect him to soon fade away and die anyway, as part of a his-time-is-up/magic-has-left-westeros-again deal?

Tbh I thought Jonerys would end up ruling together before aDwD, but then Jon died and I think, giving a happy ending to a guy who dies is just not going to work. Like Beric and LSH he’ll pay for his life and will be a different person when he returns. Dany, however, is alive, but she will lose something dear as well - maybe her ‘children’, or it’ll be Jon himself. In fight against the Others many characters will die, otherwise it won’t make sense, but I think Dany has a better chance than Jon.

Putting these two asks together because they’re on the same topic. 

I don’t know? I think magic in asoiaf isn’t a zero-sum game, and I would refrain to make predictions on either Jon’s or Dany’s odds of survival based only on their status as people who should logically be dead if magic didn’t exist. (anon #2, though Jon literally died and was resurrected, Dany too is living on borrowed time, in a way: she walked in a funeral pyre to perform a magical ritual based on an “only death can pay for life” logic, and walked out of it alive, nearly entirely unscathed and with three dragon hatchlings. But by logic she should have died there. And… what if she did? In a metaphorical way, or even in a spiritual way of sorts? So it makes sense to link this experience to Jon’s resurrection, because it was a rebirth in magic too and, as in Jon’s case, it makes room for speculation on whether she will survive or not once her business on this earth is done, so to speak.)

I guess in a very concrete sense, particularly in Jon’s case, we should figure out whether he is being kept alive by magic (R’hllor’s fire magic, specifically), therefore magic is continually necessary to keep his body functioning (in which case then yes, it would make sense that once—if—magic leaves Westeros, then Jon loses his spark of life), or if the magic required for his resurrection was a one-off deal, which would mean that his new life is permanent even if magic fades and he will only die of natural causes. (I lean towards the latter, mostly because I see no evidence of the contrary, but I’m open for discussion.)

Whether it is likely or even inescapable on a thematic, meta level that Dany and Jon die after the WftD because they’ve been living on borrowed time is another issue, and the fandom consensus seems to be that yes, they’re going to die but it will probably be a willing sacrifice on their part, rather than fading away for supernatural reasons or being killed in battle (or murdered).

Again, as far as I’m concerned I’m not sure. Like I said, it’s not a zero-sum game, and the fact that something makes sense on a trope/storytelling level isn’t in itself a guarantee it will happen in asoiaf, because we have no way to predict whether GRRM will play a certain trope straight or deconstruct it or even subvert it entirely. But in a very broad sense, yes, I suspect that regardless their chances of survival Martin won’t give these characters an all-around happily ever after anyway. Personally I think he’ll opt for an endgame that counterbalances their chosen one status. Chosen ones in fantasy either get a glorious HEA or die heroically—there’s usually no in-between, and it’s extra-ordinary in either case. But maybe they’re getting normalcy instead? Probably not the pleasant normalcy of a married life, but the tedious, mundane routine of running a kingdom and supervising rebuilt. OR they’ll be together, but they’ll lose their status of leaders. OR they’ll be so irrevocably changed by this experience that they’ll have no choice but retire somewhere quiet and safe where they can heal. 

So in short I think anon # 2 is right in that they will get something AND lose something (both of them, though it’s entirely possible that Jon’s price will be his life and Dany’s price will be Jon’s, or the dragons’, death). In my opinion their endgame has to be something that either grounds them in humanity again—with all the flaws and compromises and fatigue that a human life entails—or further alienates them from the rest of humanity, makes them incapable of savoring the sweetness of life again (à la Frodo). 

[warriorgays]

sometimes I think about Liebgott and my intense attachment to him and the… discontinuity, I guess (?) that I feel between my understanding of Liebgott and fandom’s understanding of Liebgott.

like, I am 100% not trying to discredit anyone’s headcanon or attachment to him as a character. we all have our own backgrounds and we bring that to our interpretations. that’s legit. someone else’s opinion of him is just as valid as mine. I thought about putting this under a cut b/c I didn’t want to seem like I was pushing my interpretation on anyone, and then I decided not to, and then I decided I had to just because it got so fucking long. okay. here goes.

but like, for one thing, I’ve seen a loooot of posts/fic/etc that seem to imply an attachment to Webster is the default. like of course there’s a connection between them, even people who don’t think of them as OTP have a strong sense of a tie between Liebgott and Webster. and I… do not? I had this conversation with a friend the other day, I flat-out don’t think Webster really respects Liebgott and that kind of bothers me. the scene with the commandant, Webster’s attitude is just so dismissive and hypocritical, it angers me every time I watch it. and The Last Patrol just seems like… it’s politics. it’s Webster playing politics to get back in the group, and Liebgott being a player in it. I’m not knocking that, it’s a dynamic like any other and sure, Webster can want to have friends just like any other person. but The Last Patrol is like the LAST episode that comes to mind if I’m laying out my characterization for Liebgott (okay maybe not literally, but comparatively), whereas, given the percentage of Webgott fics in the fandom, it’s probably one of the defining episodes for him in a lot of peoples’ minds. I just don’t understand it as a ship.

which, hey, again, I don’t need to understand it–Lord knows I have a fair number of ships that make people scratch their heads–but it’s a weird thing to be conscious of, because I know that puts me in the minority of Liebgott fans.

the other thing is that I don’t think I’ve ever thought about Liebgott without his Jewishness being central to my interpretation of him. not once. which isn’t to say that I think of him as “just the Jew” or even that I always think of him in religious terms, because I usually don’t. there’s a lot of different ways to be Jewish and I think Liebgott definitely fits a certain type, for those who are familiar with the types.

but like… for every Liebgott ship I have (and I have many), and every verse, I have an idea of how Liebgott would feel about this kind of interfaith relationship–and because I got real tired of that real quick, I have a few ships where I’ve arbitrarily decided that I want the other person to be Jewish, whether by birth or by choice. (although I’ve never written the latter kind, because tbh I really don’t think most people would be interested in a fic that’s that invested in Jewish themes.) and every fic I’ve written in canon has dealt with his reaction to the Shoah, and honestly, one of the main reasons I haven’t written much post-canon Liebgott fic is because I am really really loathe to take a character who, in canon, expresses a desire to marry a Jewish girl and have lots of children, and decide that I’m not going to give him that, especially since post-war he’ll know that almost a full half of the world’s Jewish population has been wiped out.

and like, it bugs me sometimes when I see people paint him as just The Angry Guy because the war means more for him than for most of the men he’s serving with, it’s intensely personal in a way it’s not for the others. and likewise it bugs me a little too when I see people stress his “Germanness”–it’s the same thing with Erik Lehnsherr, people play up his national identity and often don’t critically examine the way in which his ethnoreligious identity complicates that–and he’s not even German by birth! He speaks German. His family is probably of German or Austrian extraction, but there were a lot of Jews in the first half of the 20th century who would identify with their ethnoreligious group over any European nationalist identity, because the last half of the 19th century and the first half of the 20th were some of the most deeply, violently antisemitic periods of the history of the world.

and–well, okay, it’s a universally accepted fact that fiction, whether original fiction or fanfiction, treats bilingual characters in totally unrealistic ways. so no matter what it’s probably unrealistic for a California-born person to revert to German when saying things like “My god!” or “darling,” but far be it from me to tell people they shouldn’t write it. but anyway, there are indications in canon that German isn’t Liebgott’s primary language or that he’s not totally fluent; he asks people to slow down a few times, isn’t familiar with one or two words, and remarks that Webster (definitely not a primary speaker) knows it as well as he does. but I’ve often wondered if it’s possible that his familiarity with German is at least partially due to familiarity with Yiddish. I mean, they’re different languages, and it’s not obligatory for every Ashkenazi Jew to know Yiddish, but still, it’s something that would be interesting to explore, their relationship to each other and his relationship to them and how that might change during the war.

and that’s just the kind of thing that I don’t think other people think about a whole lot when it comes to Liebgott. the non-Hanukkah related Jewish things. like I have occasionally read Webgott fic when I’m really jonesing for Liebgott content, and I’ve read almost all of the Liebgott fic in general, and… idk.

here’s a short list of questions I’ve asked myself about Liebgott: “has he ever worn tzitzit? is there a mezuzah on his door? does he try and pray after he finds the camp? what does he talk about with the prisoners afterwards? does he help any of them finish the Shema as they are dying? does he ever wrap tefillin? does his family get the Forverts? how did he feel about America First activists? the Soviet Union? the Non Aggression Pact? what religion does he have printed on his dog tags? how does he feel sitting in the convent in The Breaking Point? does he read Hebrew? What song does he prefer, Hinei Ma Tov or Oseh Shalom? has he ever kept kosher, and how does he feel about keeping kosher, because ffs there’s more than bacon? what’s his favorite holiday–Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, Simchat Torah, Chanuka, Tu BiShvat, Purim, Pesach, Lag B’Omer, Shavuot, or that one that no one ever remembers? How does he feel about the fact that about half of America’s Jews live in New York and he’s on a whole other coast? is his family Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox? labor, socialist, communist, Zionist? how often does he go to shul? what does his family eat on Shabbos? how strictly do they keep Shabbos? sweet or salty gefilte fish? do they live in a Jewish neighborhood? what’s his Hebrew name?”

and I often feel like, if I asked most people any of these questions, they would have no idea whatsoever what I’m talking about. which… hey, that’s life. I had to study a lot to understand what all of these things mean. but now that they’re a part of my life, they’re a part of my life, and the fact that I can ask myself these questions about Liebgott, and come up with answers, are totally wrapped up in the reasons I identify with him and love him so much. and even beyond these simple(ish) questions, I approach him in writing with a whole lot of spiritual, ethical assumptions and references behind me, and I’m often concerned that a lot of those things are missing, and that if I’m not being annoyingly, blatantly obvious, people will miss the flags I put up that say hey! this is a Jewish character! this is important! it strikes me that a lot of people just don’t know very much about Judaism; I’ve read some things in fic that make me go ???? because it’s obvious people are trying but it just… there’s a discord. like we’re operating on different wavelengths, and the sounds we’re hearing aren’t the same. people use Hanukkah things because they know about Hanukkah but they use it in ways that don’t… make sense, even if they’re not technically wrong, or they’ll bring up fun facts about Judaism/Jewish law/the Bible that aren’t consistent with Jewish interpretation.

idk. I thought I would reach some kind of conclusion by the end of this post but I haven’t. I just want to talk about Joseph Liebgott 5ever and I never know if the person I’m talking with knows the same Joseph Liebgott that I do.