#which is functionally identical in OoT/BotW

[ixtaek]

Working on theories about Hyrule’s geography based solely upon my vague notion of direction. Featuring the crummiest maps known to Hyruleankind

[furrylibrarian]

I want to talk a bit about Tears of the Kingdom.

It's hard for me to do that, because all my feelings about it are contradictory and tangled up. I think its storytelling is incoherent and is actively hindered by the game structure, but it also has unquestionably some of the best story beats in the series. I find the open-ended creativity encouraged by its mechanics wild and engaging, but in practice I tend to just fall back on a few simple solutions and get frustrated when they don't easily apply to the thing I'm trying to solve. Most of all, I think it (alongside BotW) represents a much-needed shakeup to a series that was getting entirely too stale, but it is those very games that stagnated the franchise that made me fall in love with it.

Expanding on the second point I just made; I think TotK might be the only game I've played (that isn't a fighting game, anyways) that makes me feel inadequate. I know enough about its mechanics to understand that, conceptually, there's an incredible amount of potential Nonsense you can do with Ultrahand, but I just don't know how I should tap into that potential. I think it's admirable that the game doesn't tutorialize everything and lets you discover functions on your own, but because of that I've missed critical information about mechanics and felt like a complete fool for having to look up the information online (case in point; I had to consult the internet to figure out that I had to hit devices to activate them). I often have this background feeling that I could be doing something more interesting and effective when I'm playing TotK.

But really, most of my issues with TotK come from the lore implications. Gonna put a break here because spoilers. It's kind of just a rant after this point.

I've always been sharply aware that the devs aren't really concerned with adhering to an extended continuity and would rather craft a self-contained experience, but I just can't get over how weird TotK's story and backstory are. I'm still not sure what to make of the revelation that APARRENTLY there was just a SECOND GANONDORF the whole time who nobody knew about, and I'm still not really sure if Calamity Ganon was the classic Ganondorf degraded to a primal form after millennia of reincarnation (as I believed before TotK dropped), or if it was related to this game's new ancient Ganondorf? It's a messy situation that's only a problem when you're thinking about BotW/TotK in the context of the rest of the franchise WHICH IS COMPLETELY REASONABLE

Also the memories are just so strange. They feel like a warped retelling of OoT's first act, especially since a main character shares his name with an OoT character, a name which is not one of the many continually-recycled named the series uses which makes it sound way more significant! Like when I was playing through, I had this weird creeping feeling that this game was trying to replace OoT with this new backstory? Like obviously, no, it isn't, but it hit so many of the same important beats! Ganondorf allies himself with the king of Hyrule (even mirroring a shot from OoT), Zelda realizes he's up to something and tries to stop him, only to fail spectacularly such that Ganondorf gets the exact empowered artifact he was gunning for the whole time. Even Zelda transforming into a dragon to repair the Master Sword and sacrificing her identity in the process reminded me of Link in OoT drawing the Master Sword and losing his childhood, LIKE THEY'RE TELLING THE SAME STORY, WHAT IS GOING ON

I don't have a conclusion, I don't have a thesis, I just have opinions and I needed to vent them

[high-functioning-girlfailure]

Damn, tumblr media literacy strikes again. Let's go through this bad take slowly.

The thing that is actually bad about the Damsel in Distress trope is that it takes away the character's agency and ability to be a meaningful part of the plot. They just become the object over which the quest is fought. I'm explaining this because:

In Zelda 2, Alttp, Minish Cap, FSA and LBW, the reasons why Zelda isn't in the plot are functionally identical to if she was kidnapped. Being cursed or sealed away still makes Zelda not an actual character. Are these really supposed to be empowering alternatives to being kidnapped?

You forgot to mention Phantom Hourglass, where Zelda (Tetra) immediately gets turned to stone and kidnapped. Huh, weird how you forgot to mention that one, I wonder how that happened.

In OoT, yeah it's pretty rad that she gets to be a cool ninja that actually contributes to the plot. But it's pretty important to mention that as soon as you learn that Shiek is Zelda, she gets kidnapped and stops mattering to the plot.

In WW, yeah it's pretty rad that she gets to be a cool pirate that actually contributes to the plot. But it's pretty important to mention that as soon as you learn that Tetra is Zelda, she gets shut in a room and stops mattering to the plot.

In TP, she's just shut in a room the whole game not mattering to the plot. Her sacrificing herself to save Midna is a decent moment, but it's also a moment in service of motivating a different character. And of course, she stops mattering completely after this sacrifice.

In SS, Zelda doing prophecy stuff in the background is barely an upgrade to just being kidnapped. Link is still trying to rescue her, she's still just an object of the quest at hand.

At this point I should address a glaring omission that you're probably screaming at me for: in many of these games, Zelda comes in clutch with the Light Arrows during the Ganon fights. I do not count these as meaningful contributions to the plot, because "strong female character" does not mean the character needs to literally be strong. Zelda having cool magic powers that she gets to use against Ganon does not make up for the fact that she doesn't get to make decisions or get proper character development.

BotW is a good example of what decent writing actually looks like. Sure, Zelda here is weak as hell, she can't do shit for most of the plot. But she has, like, personality traits. I can actually describe what she's like as a person. She has struggles and growth throughout the story. She shows some proper emotion. She's an actual character here.

Now Spirit Tracks is what I'm actually looking for in a good Zelda. She's present for the whole adventure. Likeable personality. Grows throughout the game. Her contribution is essential. She truly shares the title of "Main Character" with Link here. The fact that her main skill involves wearing some huge ass armour and swinging a big sword is also great. There's so many fantasy stories where it feels like they give magic to their female characters as consolation, instead of the more practical (and narratively important) swords that the men get. So seeing Spirit Tracks Zelda get to be the shit brick house protecting her vulnerable little twink was very cool.

So yeah, Spirit Tracks and BotW/TotK Zelda are the only incarnations of this character that I feel amount to well written characters. I hate to be That Guyᵀᴹ who comes in and ruins a fun post, but we're not going to get better written women if we present damsels-but-girlboss-flavoured as the standard to strive for.

people get pissed that Zelda’s portrayed as this fuckin damsel in distress and they’re like “TROPES ARE DUMB NINTENDO IS SEXIST”

and i’m like… have you… actually… played a Zelda game???

when has Zelda EVER ACTUALLY been kidnapped by Ganon PAST THE FIRST GAME?

in Zelda 2 and I think Minish Cap she was in a cursed sleep

In ALttP she was hiding and I believe later sealed away in another world for a while

In OoT she was sneaking around as a ninja trying to help you

In Four Swords Adventures and A Link Between Worlds she was sealed away

in Wind Waker she’s a pirate who travels with you

In Twilight Princess she LITERALLY HELPS YOU KILL GANON AND PARTICIPATES IN THE FIGHT

in Spirit Tracks she’s DEAD (AND RETURNS FROM THE DEAD AS A GHOST TO HELP YOU ANYWAY.)

in Skyward Sword she’s training to unlock her potential as the LITERAL GODDESS INCARNATE

in Breath of the Wild she spent her days studying to unlock her power and then spent a hundred years using it to keep her kingdom safe while all her friends and family FUCKING DIED ALL AROUND HER

she’s sealed away and put to sleep so many times because she NEEDS to be disabled

YOU KNOW WHY?

BECAUSE NOT EVEN DEATH CAN STOP ZELDA FROM KICKING YOUR FUCKING ASS

ZELDA CRIED IN BOTW BECAUSE SHE FAILED TO STOP GANON AND LITERALLY ALLOWED A GENOCIDE TO HAPPEN SHE’S NOT CRYING BECAUSE “WAH I’M SCARED I NEED A MAN TO PROTECT ME” SHE’S CRYING BECAUSE SHE WAS TOLD HER ENTIRE LIFE IT WAS HER DUTY TO STOP THE LITERAL END OF THE WORLD. AND SHE FAILED.

SO YOU CAN TAKE YOUR DAMSEL ACCUSATIONS AND GLUE THEM TO ZELDA’S FOOT

SO THEY GET SHOVED UP YOUR ASS WHEN ZELDA KICKS IT

[girlballs]

What are ur thoughts on botw why is it bad I’m just curious

there's. a couple reasons

shrines as BotW does them are not a substantial replacement for real dungeons, partly because they didn't implement any kind of actual difficulty curve to them but also because most of them In Their Entirety are equivalent to one puzzle room from a real zelda dungeon. they're also in the awkward position of being a bad idea stapled to a good idea- the Spirit Orbs replacing heart containers with an upgrade that can go to a stat of your choice is cool by itself!

the divine beasts are also not really good substitutes for dungeons either. they're like, about the same size as OoT's ice cave? the puzzlebox aspect of each one is neat but they still kind of feel more like a gimmick you fiddle with until you can progress rather than a real core dungeon puzzle (being able to fiddle with the controls anywhere also makes it feel weird and disconnected)

the big thing though: you get all 5 of your "items" (bomb/stasis/magnet/ice/glider) in the tutorial and those are the only things the game expects or requires you to have. most shrines only require you use 1 at a time, sometimes 2 if they were feeling spicy. there's like one shrine i can remember that actually required a bow, and it just gives you one in a chest, because the bow is no longer a core thing they can safely design around

boss and enemy design is also...not great. there's like, what, eight regular enemy types for most of the game? plus lynels, 3 guardian types, and the two yiga dudes. the four ___blight ganon bosses are also tougher fights than Actual Calamity Ganon for whatever reason, and the latter fight gets arbitrarily cut in half if you fight the blight bosses which like. i get from a narrative standpoint but "you get to fight less of the final boss" does not feel like a reward, it feels like a punishment

also the world just feels. so empty if you're like me and are not super compelled by a bunch of fragile, functionally-identical weapons and korok block-shuffling puzzles

[archer3-13]

The phrase, 'BOTW is good because it goes back to basics' or 'BOTW is good because it reinvents the wheel' bother, both for the same reasons and for some different reasons.

the back to basics idea bugs me because, well i agree sometimes its best/makes more sense to simplify to the essential rather then overcomplicate especially in game design, it ignores that zelda has, as a series, evolved well past the basics games like the nes zelda were built on. To the point that 'getting back to basics' is kinda more to botw's detriment then it is its benefit. the combat systems generally been refined in terms of what consistent elements are employed to a tea over the series life, but instead botw backpedals and simplifies which reduces the actual complexity of combat. the boomerangs utility had overtime more so been in its ability to hit multiple targets at once but in bringing it back to basics it not only loses versatility but is less effective then other weapons in combat because of its unreliability. hammers, great swords, and axes have seen application in previous titles but instead of refining those functions into new interesting styles of combat, all of them function effectively identically meaning theres no practical reason to use one over the other. etc.

the idea that it reinvents the wheel by comparison bugs me because it feels... not ignorant but disregardful of the series history. zelda has never been a series thats stuck in one particular place to long, its a series that effectively reinvents itself to some extent or another come every title. how many dungeons per game? on average about 6-8 i'd say but its fairly inconsistent across titles. what weapons do ya get each game? theres been some consistency with weapons like the hookshot or the bow but even the actual function of the weapons that reappear tend to shift between games. hyrules a common setting but not a consistent one in itself and theres been plenty of outliers. the only thing i would say has been consistent is that zelda has consistently gone back to reimagining oot in some way and thats hardly something botw escapes from basically being oot but apocalypse. even directly referencing it multiple times.

and both of the statements bother me because id say thats actually the games biggest problem in general. its too basic, too routine in a way to the point of lifting more tropes and themes from box standard fantasy then the actual weirdness that is the zelda series bread and butter. something like majoras mask would never work in the confines of botw for instance because majoras mask is weird, and offsetting, and ever so slightly hallucinatory which would be completely at odds with how botw structures itself. no botw, i dont want to stargate myself places i want to play a magic flute and disappear in a cloud of sparkles. and in part i get it, the actual magic present in botw is suppose to be at odds with the more grounded and technological setting so that it comes across as more surprising and mystical and awe inspiring when magic does happen. but none of that magic actually feels at odds with the setting of botw because its all so safe or otherwise consistent with the technology of the setting that its effectively interchangeable.

i just... i get more frustrated with this game the more i think on it.